Comments on: Macedonia and Greece could look to EU for help http://blogs.reuters.com/global/2010/11/19/macedonia-and-greece-could-look-to-eu-for-help/ Beyond the World news headlines Wed, 16 Nov 2016 20:09:42 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=4.2.5 By: Robdude http://blogs.reuters.com/global/2010/11/19/macedonia-and-greece-could-look-to-eu-for-help/comment-page-1/#comment-22008 Mon, 29 Nov 2010 23:28:47 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/global/?p=10111#comment-22008 I’m just asking why is Ancient times bring out in 21 century? Modern nations are not build up from antiquity.

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By: PituGuli http://blogs.reuters.com/global/2010/11/19/macedonia-and-greece-could-look-to-eu-for-help/comment-page-1/#comment-22004 Mon, 29 Nov 2010 20:48:21 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/global/?p=10111#comment-22004 There is no scientific consensus on the classification of the ancient Macedonian language. Ancient Macedonians did not just disappear, but their descendants today are living in the Republic of Macedonia, Greece, Bulgaria, Turkey, Iran etc. The people called Macedonian today is not 100 per cent the same, but the people called Greek today is neither fully identical with ancient Hellenes. Modern Greek language “dimotiki is quite far from classical Greek, Homer or Plato hardly could understand it.

Modern nations and national self-identifications are products of the 18-19th centuries. Greeks are entitled to call themselves so, even if in fact they are of Albanian, Aromanian, Turkish or Slavic descents, and Macedonians have the same rights.

Macedonian states, however short-lived they were, existed before the independence of the Republic of Macedonia. The Karposh uprising in the late 17th century already represented some sort of Macedonian identity, while the Krushevo Republic in 1903, or Count Gyula Cseszneky de Milvany’s Grand Voivodeship of Macedonia in 1943 were undoubtedly endeavours of Macedonian patriotism and national consciousness.

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By: MacGirl http://blogs.reuters.com/global/2010/11/19/macedonia-and-greece-could-look-to-eu-for-help/comment-page-1/#comment-21975 Sat, 27 Nov 2010 22:07:11 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/global/?p=10111#comment-21975 I found something very interesting written by your compatriot Nikos Raptis….

A brief search in the phone directory of Athens revealed the following:

– There are about 43,000 entries of Greeks with last names beginning with the Turkish prefix “kara”.
– There are about 20,000 entries of Greeks with last names beginning with the Muslim prefix “hadji” . Of course these Greeks are fervent Christians!
– There is an unknown (but vast) number of entries of Greeks with last names ending with the Turkish suffix “oglou”, which is the ending of a great percentage of the Turkish last names.

The population of Athens is around 4 million people, about half of the total population of Greece. That? is one in 40 Greeks has a Turkish last name!

LOL – Go you modern Greeks you ;))

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By: MacGirl http://blogs.reuters.com/global/2010/11/19/macedonia-and-greece-could-look-to-eu-for-help/comment-page-1/#comment-21911 Wed, 24 Nov 2010 20:20:30 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/global/?p=10111#comment-21911 Kurios Damianos

“Fabricated historical narrative” is ironically the only thing Greece can export. You claim to be the literal descendants of the Ancient Greeks — which is laughed at by the rest of the world. Even your own historians don’t believe it. Then you say “We are the Ancient Greeks — therefore anybody we say is an Ancient Greek is our ancestor”. But you aren’t genetically related to the people you claim!

I like Thai restaurants. I do. I can even speak some simple Thai. I learned Thai in the same way your ancestors learned Greek. That doesn’t mean I have Ancient Thai ancestors. I need to have genes to prove that; and this the problem. Greeks always talk about being the descendants of the Ancient Macedonians or Ancient Greeks based on language or culture — and like you — they say ‘genetics are irrelevant’. If you want to know who your father is, what do you get? A DNA test? Or do you try to ask what language he spoke?

DNA is the only way to determine ancestry. The worlds biggest gene lab, FTDNA/iGenea, have stated that 30% of Macedonians in the Republic of Macedonia have the same markers as the Ancient Macedonians. If you love the Ancient Macedonians so much, WHY are you arguing with us? We are the closest nation genetically to them — they were our parents!

Yes the Macedonian Alexander did spread Ancient Greek culture — in the same way the British Empire has spread Tamil culture to Fiji, South Africa and elsewhere

The Ancient Greeks were a conquered people (from 338BC) who were used in administering his empire because, unlike the Ancient Macedonians, many Ancient Greeks were literate!

You can claim to be “the exclusive and only modern people, successors to Hellenic culture” and “jealously guard” your historical beliefs; go ahead, Modern Greece is a failed, corrupt, bankrupt state and if dreaming about the past is what makes you feel adequate, I am happy for you. Much of the corrupt and poverty stricken Arab world feels the same way about their own past. None of that ‘jealous guarding’ changes your Turkish and Albanian DNA!

Of course if you use such laughable beliefs to try to deny the human rights of your minorities or neighbouring states — don’t whine when the rest of the world laughs at you. 129 countries recognise Macedonia by its constitutional name — including most of the world’s powers. You are before the ICJ and you are expected to lose, because of your lack of respect for UN brokered agreements in relation to Macedonia.

No matter how many capital letters you use tough guy; remember that — 129 countries recognise human rights and call us Macedonian — despite all of the lobbying and bribing Greece has tried.

Now give my Macedonian feet a massage you Greek slave!! LOL

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By: MacGirl http://blogs.reuters.com/global/2010/11/19/macedonia-and-greece-could-look-to-eu-for-help/comment-page-1/#comment-21910 Wed, 24 Nov 2010 20:16:19 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/global/?p=10111#comment-21910 Kurios Jadotville

Thank you for enlighting me with your post LOL. The problem you have is that because your Turkish and Albanian ancestors learned Greek in the 19th century, you now think you are related to everybody in history.

As far as your idea of the Ancient Macedonians being considered Greek — Harvard’s Ernst Badian (who isn’t on the Greek government payroll) stated that the Ancient Macedonians were not considered Greek by themselves or the Ancient Greeks until centuries into the Hellenic Era which was long after Alexander the Great died. Somehow modern Greeks think the Ancient Macedonians were not only Ancient Greeks — but now they are identical to the Modern Greeks. This is all modern Greek nationalist fantasy.

You are right in that the Slavs invaded Macedonia in the 6th century — and assimilated the descendants of the Ancient Macedonians. That means that the literal descendants of the Ancient Macedonians have part Slavic blood! Oh no! Mixed blood! And yes we no longer speak Ancient Macedonian — which Greeks couldn’t understand, and many writers mentioned the need for translators. We now speak a Slavic language — which is named after the people who speak it and the region it is spoken in — Macedonian. My ancestors had been speaking Macedonian a lot longer than yours have been speaking Greek, my ex-Turkish friend.

There is ‘no lack of undertanding’ on my part about the banning of the language. My grandparents were forced to speak Greek instead of Macedonian and had to change their names because the Greek government wanted to erase their identity. Go speak to people who were kicked out of the part of Macedonia that Greece took in 1913 (many were also kicked out in the late 1940s) and ask them what language they speak!

We are talking about Macedonian being banned in the 20th century and then you state “it didn’t preexist Roman times”; are you serious?

You are showing the typical Greek-nationalist attitude. Make up whatever belief you want in ancient history and then use it to justify human rights violations in modern history. Greece took the southern part of Macedonia in 1913 — then force-Hellenized the population — which is now known as Ethnic Cleansing. They are still fighting against the idea of a Macedonian identity — and that is what the vetoes are about; even Dora Bakoyannis — your ex FM said that.

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By: BGfriend http://blogs.reuters.com/global/2010/11/19/macedonia-and-greece-could-look-to-eu-for-help/comment-page-1/#comment-21907 Wed, 24 Nov 2010 20:08:52 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/global/?p=10111#comment-21907 Hi my dear friend from the Balkan summit – where are the Turks and Serbs, and of course the Kosovars? It feels really alone…

I just came back from Thessaloniki (Solun to the Slavic speakers) and I had my eyes opened. The Greeks have the absolute right to protect their MAcedonian history and my dear “Macedonians” you have lost this battle. Plus you are stealing history from everyone in the region….

Regarding the name – in Bulgaria we came up with a solution – South Western Bulgaria. By accepting this name – you will get for free: 1300 years of history, free access to a beautiful coast line, winter ski resorts, extra 6 million population, EU membership and the most important – free Bulgarian language lessons (not that you need those :) )!!!

It is really scary to see that there are really people in Macedonia, that actually believe in this fairy tale about being ancestors of ancient Macedonia. Guys, you are embarrassing yourself. You need to read a couple of books and then just accept the fact your are Bulgarians.

Bulgarians do not want steal your small country or anything. We are open to accept you without asking you for anything in return. We believe you are our lost brothers and then in response we get only hate from you…This why nobody cares about you know in Bulgaria. Every time I am in Macedonia you have at least one anti Bulgarian news on the TV. Pathetic.

BTW – Macedonia/FYROM has two options – Albania or Bulgaria – it is up to you to decide…

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By: Damianos http://blogs.reuters.com/global/2010/11/19/macedonia-and-greece-could-look-to-eu-for-help/comment-page-1/#comment-21882 Tue, 23 Nov 2010 07:00:22 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/global/?p=10111#comment-21882 @Macgirl

IS THAT SO? Then you should find it easy to answer this simple question:

If Philip, Alexander and the Macedonians were NOT GREEK and came from a GREAT SEPARATE NATION, why didn’t they spread the so called ‘Makedonski’ language and culture’ to the known world, instead of the Language and Culture of their defeated ‘enemies’ and ‘slaves’ – THE GREEKS???

Be careful how you answer, because for ALL Great Nations there is NOTHING MORE PRECIOUS than these things!

(Of course, we all know you can’t and won’t answer)

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By: Damianos http://blogs.reuters.com/global/2010/11/19/macedonia-and-greece-could-look-to-eu-for-help/comment-page-1/#comment-21881 Tue, 23 Nov 2010 06:58:13 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/global/?p=10111#comment-21881 The HUGE difference between us, that many apparently refuse to see, is that they deny the original Cultural Roots of the Ancient Macedonians, which were UNDENIABLY GREEK, and try to pass off their own fabricated ‘Historical Narrative’, as reality.

Are they blind to what they claim? Have they not read the posts about how their Slavic Bulgarian language is the original Macedonian and is written on the Rosetta Stone??? Have they not seen their insulting posts about their bogus, discredited ‘gene studies’ and their racial slurs about Africans, Arabs and Turks and their relations to Greeks? Are they really unaware or just indifferent to their ludicrous positions???

The Ancient Macedonians were irrefutably Greek. They spoke Greek, believed in the Pantheon of Greek Gods and proclaimed it by spreading the Greek Language, Greek Civilization and Culture around the world!

Whatever you believe about whether today’s Greeks are connected to the Ancient Greeks by DNA, (totally irrelevant to the issue, by the way), we CAN claim to be the exclusive and only modern people, successors to Ancient Hellenic culture, precisely because we are hereditary Greeks and accept, promote and jealously guard the original Cultural Roots of ALL the Greeks, including of course the Macedonians!

The Fyromians have only VERY SLIM geographic grounds to associate themselves with the name ‘Macedonia’. WE HAVE HISTORY, GEOGRAPHY, TRADITIONS, LANGUAGE and CULTURE and no matter how much some refuse to see and respect this, we will continue to guard this inheritance from THIEVES and FORGERS, and their apologists!

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By: jadotville http://blogs.reuters.com/global/2010/11/19/macedonia-and-greece-could-look-to-eu-for-help/comment-page-1/#comment-21879 Tue, 23 Nov 2010 05:42:54 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/global/?p=10111#comment-21879 If the Macedonians spoke Greek, why did the Greeks outlaw the language ?
That question shows a lack of understanding of the linguistic situation prior to the balkan wars.
In geographical Macedonia several languages were spoken, prior to the balkan wars: turkish, albanian, slavic (bulgarian) and greek. The inhabitants of Macedonia spoke all four of them (and some others). Amongst these languages only the Greek one (and maybe albanian also) pre-existed in Macedonia prior to the roman invasion. In Greek Macedonia, the original macedonian language (greek) was promoted in the new state. In Bulgaria and Vardaska the slavic language was promoted rather than the original Macedonian one (greek).
In Albania, the albanian language was promoted. The turkish language pretty much disappeared from all four areas.

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By: jadotville http://blogs.reuters.com/global/2010/11/19/macedonia-and-greece-could-look-to-eu-for-help/comment-page-1/#comment-21878 Tue, 23 Nov 2010 05:30:59 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/global/?p=10111#comment-21878 If you speak a language that did not exist in the antiquity, your language is not macedonian and neither are you.
If you speak a language that did not exist during ancient macedonia it is not macedonian.
If you speak a language that did not exist when the romans invaded, it is not macedonian.
The slavic speakers (Bulgarians) that had to learn Greek in Greek Macedonia, were learning the genuine macedonian language.
The Greek speakers that had to learn the slavic idiom beyond the greek border, were loosing the linguistic link with Macedonian history and were being assimilated with the post 6th ad slav invaders

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