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	<title>Comments on: Bleak outlook for U.S. oil refiners</title>
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	<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2008/12/01/bleak-outlook-for-us-oil-refiners/</link>
	<description>Just another blogs.reuters.com weblog</description>
	<pubDate>Sun, 08 Nov 2009 10:12:19 +0000</pubDate>
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		<item>
		<title>By: Detroit&#8217;s Song of the Doomed &#124; Money and Markets Blogs</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2008/12/01/bleak-outlook-for-us-oil-refiners/#comment-4918</link>
		<dc:creator>Detroit&#8217;s Song of the Doomed &#124; Money and Markets Blogs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Jan 2009 16:47:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/?p=775#comment-4918</guid>
		<description>[...] &#60;&#62;Bleak outlook for U.S. oil refinersU.S. refiners now have too much capacity and produce the wrong products (gasoline) in a fuel economy increasingly dominated by ethanol and diesel. Capacity cuts of as much as 0.5-1.0 million bpd (equivalent to 4-8 average refineries) and expensive investment to reconfigure the system to increase the diesel yield seem inevitable. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] &lt;&gt;Bleak outlook for U.S. oil refinersU.S. refiners now have too much capacity and produce the wrong products (gasoline) in a fuel economy increasingly dominated by ethanol and diesel. Capacity cuts of as much as 0.5-1.0 million bpd (equivalent to 4-8 average refineries) and expensive investment to reconfigure the system to increase the diesel yield seem inevitable. [...]</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Detroit&#8217;s Song of the Doomed</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2008/12/01/bleak-outlook-for-us-oil-refiners/#comment-4785</link>
		<dc:creator>Detroit&#8217;s Song of the Doomed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Jan 2009 22:23:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/?p=775#comment-4785</guid>
		<description>[...] &#60;&#62;Bleak outlook for U.S. oil refinersU.S. refiners now have too much capacity and produce the wrong products (gasoline) in a fuel economy increasingly dominated by ethanol and diesel. Capacity cuts of as much as 0.5-1.0 million bpd (equivalent to 4-8 average refineries) and expensive investment to reconfigure the system to increase the diesel yield seem inevitable. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] &lt;&gt;Bleak outlook for U.S. oil refinersU.S. refiners now have too much capacity and produce the wrong products (gasoline) in a fuel economy increasingly dominated by ethanol and diesel. Capacity cuts of as much as 0.5-1.0 million bpd (equivalent to 4-8 average refineries) and expensive investment to reconfigure the system to increase the diesel yield seem inevitable. [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Detroit&#8217;s Song of the Doomed &#171; Red Hot Energy and Gold</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2008/12/01/bleak-outlook-for-us-oil-refiners/#comment-3766</link>
		<dc:creator>Detroit&#8217;s Song of the Doomed &#171; Red Hot Energy and Gold</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Dec 2008 11:56:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/?p=775#comment-3766</guid>
		<description>[...] &#60;&#62;Bleak outlook for U.S. oil refinersU.S. refiners now have too much capacity and produce the wrong products (gasoline) in a fuel economy increasingly dominated by ethanol and diesel. Capacity cuts of as much as 0.5-1.0 million bpd (equivalent to 4-8 average refineries) and expensive investment to reconfigure the system to increase the diesel yield seem inevitable. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] &lt;&gt;Bleak outlook for U.S. oil refinersU.S. refiners now have too much capacity and produce the wrong products (gasoline) in a fuel economy increasingly dominated by ethanol and diesel. Capacity cuts of as much as 0.5-1.0 million bpd (equivalent to 4-8 average refineries) and expensive investment to reconfigure the system to increase the diesel yield seem inevitable. [...]</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Detroit&#8217;s Song of the Doomed &#171; red-hot-energy-and-gold</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2008/12/01/bleak-outlook-for-us-oil-refiners/#comment-3119</link>
		<dc:creator>Detroit&#8217;s Song of the Doomed &#171; red-hot-energy-and-gold</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Dec 2008 15:03:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/?p=775#comment-3119</guid>
		<description>[...] &#60;&#62;Bleak outlook for U.S. oil refinersU.S. refiners now have too much capacity and produce the wrong products (gasoline) in a fuel economy increasingly dominated by ethanol and diesel. Capacity cuts of as much as 0.5-1.0 million bpd (equivalent to 4-8 average refineries) and expensive investment to reconfigure the system to increase the diesel yield seem inevitable. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] &lt;&gt;Bleak outlook for U.S. oil refinersU.S. refiners now have too much capacity and produce the wrong products (gasoline) in a fuel economy increasingly dominated by ethanol and diesel. Capacity cuts of as much as 0.5-1.0 million bpd (equivalent to 4-8 average refineries) and expensive investment to reconfigure the system to increase the diesel yield seem inevitable. [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Detroit&#8217;s Song of the Doomed &#171; Red-Hot Energy and Gold</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2008/12/01/bleak-outlook-for-us-oil-refiners/#comment-2949</link>
		<dc:creator>Detroit&#8217;s Song of the Doomed &#171; Red-Hot Energy and Gold</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Dec 2008 01:49:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/?p=775#comment-2949</guid>
		<description>[...] &#60;&#62;Bleak outlook for U.S. oil refinersU.S. refiners now have too much capacity and produce the wrong products (gasoline) in a fuel economy increasingly dominated by ethanol and diesel. Capacity cuts of as much as 0.5-1.0 million bpd (equivalent to 4-8 average refineries) and expensive investment to reconfigure the system to increase the diesel yield seem inevitable. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] &lt;&gt;Bleak outlook for U.S. oil refinersU.S. refiners now have too much capacity and produce the wrong products (gasoline) in a fuel economy increasingly dominated by ethanol and diesel. Capacity cuts of as much as 0.5-1.0 million bpd (equivalent to 4-8 average refineries) and expensive investment to reconfigure the system to increase the diesel yield seem inevitable. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Rich</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2008/12/01/bleak-outlook-for-us-oil-refiners/#comment-2891</link>
		<dc:creator>Rich</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Dec 2008 17:09:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/?p=775#comment-2891</guid>
		<description>2008
5:56 am GMT
	

-- well in this situation both demand and supply should be
--  balanced that poor consumer would not effect badly like
--  what happen in past when the prices was very high and
--  people don’t have money to save. So both demand and
--  supply should be balance equally that in future we all
--  wont face the supply shortage and again it gonna jump
--  to above $100.
-- - Posted by Muttaqi

The futures market is the machine which does this balancing.  The problem is that nobody knows what future conditions will be.  We guess.  We do the best we can.  Anyone who is willing to put their money where their mouth is can participate, through the commodities and commodity futures market in this great feat of prognostication.  People who have made good predictions in the past can use their profits to continue to predict.  People who have made bad predictions lost money, and so are less able to move the market in the future.  It ain't perfect, but it's the best *possible* system.

The problem with the Socialist ideal -- the government should make these decisions for everybody -- is that it presumes that anybody who works for the government is omnipotent and omniscent.  Having lived under George Bush's sad, pathetic reign should have eliminated that superstition, but the socialists now think that Obama has some magic ability to know the future.  He doesn't.  Nobody does.

We are imperfect human beings, ignorant of our future, and we have two choices:  we can accept our humanity, and live under a capitalist system where we are free to benifit when we're right and take responsibility when we're wrong, or we can switch to a socialist system where when the dictator is right everyone benifits and when he's wrong everyone suffers --- except for his henchmen, who still live well at our expense.

I'd rather suffer for my own mistakes than suffer for somebody elses.  I'll take capitalism any day.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>2008<br />
5:56 am GMT</p>
<p>&#8211; well in this situation both demand and supply should be<br />
&#8211;  balanced that poor consumer would not effect badly like<br />
&#8211;  what happen in past when the prices was very high and<br />
&#8211;  people don’t have money to save. So both demand and<br />
&#8211;  supply should be balance equally that in future we all<br />
&#8211;  wont face the supply shortage and again it gonna jump<br />
&#8211;  to above $100.<br />
&#8211; - Posted by Muttaqi</p>
<p>The futures market is the machine which does this balancing.  The problem is that nobody knows what future conditions will be.  We guess.  We do the best we can.  Anyone who is willing to put their money where their mouth is can participate, through the commodities and commodity futures market in this great feat of prognostication.  People who have made good predictions in the past can use their profits to continue to predict.  People who have made bad predictions lost money, and so are less able to move the market in the future.  It ain&#8217;t perfect, but it&#8217;s the best *possible* system.</p>
<p>The problem with the Socialist ideal &#8212; the government should make these decisions for everybody &#8212; is that it presumes that anybody who works for the government is omnipotent and omniscent.  Having lived under George Bush&#8217;s sad, pathetic reign should have eliminated that superstition, but the socialists now think that Obama has some magic ability to know the future.  He doesn&#8217;t.  Nobody does.</p>
<p>We are imperfect human beings, ignorant of our future, and we have two choices:  we can accept our humanity, and live under a capitalist system where we are free to benifit when we&#8217;re right and take responsibility when we&#8217;re wrong, or we can switch to a socialist system where when the dictator is right everyone benifits and when he&#8217;s wrong everyone suffers &#8212; except for his henchmen, who still live well at our expense.</p>
<p>I&#8217;d rather suffer for my own mistakes than suffer for somebody elses.  I&#8217;ll take capitalism any day.</p>
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		<title>By: Muttaqi</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2008/12/01/bleak-outlook-for-us-oil-refiners/#comment-2716</link>
		<dc:creator>Muttaqi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Dec 2008 10:56:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/?p=775#comment-2716</guid>
		<description>well in this situation both demand and supply should be balanced that poor consumer would not effect badly like what happen in past when the prices was very high and people don't have money to save. So both demand and supply should be balance equally that in future we all wont face the supply shortage and again it gonna jump to above $100.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>well in this situation both demand and supply should be balanced that poor consumer would not effect badly like what happen in past when the prices was very high and people don&#8217;t have money to save. So both demand and supply should be balance equally that in future we all wont face the supply shortage and again it gonna jump to above $100.</p>
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		<title>By: dan</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2008/12/01/bleak-outlook-for-us-oil-refiners/#comment-2443</link>
		<dc:creator>dan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Dec 2008 05:12:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/?p=775#comment-2443</guid>
		<description>oil companies hah hah, its all about one thing billions in profit. thats with a B not with an M. They dont care about the working man, its politicans and money, money, money, there is no dangerous combination than that!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>oil companies hah hah, its all about one thing billions in profit. thats with a B not with an M. They dont care about the working man, its politicans and money, money, money, there is no dangerous combination than that!</p>
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		<title>By: mm</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2008/12/01/bleak-outlook-for-us-oil-refiners/#comment-2309</link>
		<dc:creator>mm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Dec 2008 03:58:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/?p=775#comment-2309</guid>
		<description>Maybe owners of oil refineries need to buy renewable fuel facilities - "ethanol plants" - to help offset their loses from plain 'ole market competition.  Change is tough but really the industry has not had any competition until now.  Is Ford and GM better off with competition from Honda and Toyota?  No.  But the American public has benefited with better cars because of competition.  The idea of one source of energy to power automobiles is over.  The American public must have a diverse source of energy options: electricity, gasoline, diesel, propane, ethanol, biodiesel, natural gas, etc. A passenger vehicle that can use either 2 or 3 choices of energy given the price of the day will cause enough market competition to give the American Consumer free choice at the fuel station - better for the economy, better for national security, and better for the planet.  Lets give competition a chance.  What would life be if we only ate bread and bread alone.  Think of walking into a grocery store and all you have is bread to choose from - pretty boring.  I'm ready for an exciting future of the energy industry.  All those involved just need to take a breath and diversify their energy services to the public. the public always wants choice and car companies better know this.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Maybe owners of oil refineries need to buy renewable fuel facilities - &#8220;ethanol plants&#8221; - to help offset their loses from plain &#8216;ole market competition.  Change is tough but really the industry has not had any competition until now.  Is Ford and GM better off with competition from Honda and Toyota?  No.  But the American public has benefited with better cars because of competition.  The idea of one source of energy to power automobiles is over.  The American public must have a diverse source of energy options: electricity, gasoline, diesel, propane, ethanol, biodiesel, natural gas, etc. A passenger vehicle that can use either 2 or 3 choices of energy given the price of the day will cause enough market competition to give the American Consumer free choice at the fuel station - better for the economy, better for national security, and better for the planet.  Lets give competition a chance.  What would life be if we only ate bread and bread alone.  Think of walking into a grocery store and all you have is bread to choose from - pretty boring.  I&#8217;m ready for an exciting future of the energy industry.  All those involved just need to take a breath and diversify their energy services to the public. the public always wants choice and car companies better know this.</p>
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		<title>By: isahbiazhar</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2008/12/01/bleak-outlook-for-us-oil-refiners/#comment-2292</link>
		<dc:creator>isahbiazhar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Dec 2008 20:44:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/?p=775#comment-2292</guid>
		<description>Now we have to listen to the Arabs; bring back the price to US75 otherwise the whole industry will collapse.The next alternative will be to use water which the Japanese have done.Alternate energy use should have been planned well otherwise they themselves will cause problems; shortage of corn and soya.Barack Obama's economic advisers must look into this immediately before the whole world collapses.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Now we have to listen to the Arabs; bring back the price to US75 otherwise the whole industry will collapse.The next alternative will be to use water which the Japanese have done.Alternate energy use should have been planned well otherwise they themselves will cause problems; shortage of corn and soya.Barack Obama&#8217;s economic advisers must look into this immediately before the whole world collapses.</p>
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