Comments on: Can Obama avert an Arab-Israeli disaster? http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2008/12/11/can-obama-avert-an-arab-israeli-disaster/ Thu, 21 Jul 2016 07:57:19 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=4.2.5 By: Wagner http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2008/12/11/can-obama-avert-an-arab-israeli-disaster/#comment-5090 Tue, 13 Jan 2009 14:38:52 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/?p=901#comment-5090 @Robert Vincent: Mr. Vincent, I mostly share your opinion. Nevertheless I hope you answer two questions I have, referring to your following statement:

“the original modern Israeli state, per the 1947 U.N. partition plan, did not result in the displacement of ANY Palestinian Arabs. The Palestinian Arabs only became refugees as a result of two wars started by their leaders, and/or by the leaders of neighboring Arab states, these being the 1948 and 1967 wars.”

1. How could have been realized the jewish homeland according to the UN partition plan, without dispelling the Arabs from the region which was ought to be Israel?

2. Isn’t it true that the Irgun and other military forces threatened Palastinian Arabs to leave their homes or they would get killed otherwise?

Thanks in advance for giving more details.

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By: Rev. Den Fennessy http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2008/12/11/can-obama-avert-an-arab-israeli-disaster/#comment-4587 Sun, 04 Jan 2009 14:59:04 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/?p=901#comment-4587 I am told in Scripture to Pray for the peace of Jerusalem: “May those who love you be secure
May there be peace within your walls 
and security within your citadels.”
Psalms 122:6-7
The peace sought in these verses is much more than the mere absence of conflict. It suggests completeness, health, justice, prosperity, and protection. The world cannot provide this peace. Real peace comes from faith in God, because he alone embodies all the characteristics of peace. To find peace of mind and peace with others, you must find peace with God. Muslims – Jews – Christians
I suggest that the Muslims, Jews and Christians of the Holy Land Lock Arms – Face the East
Humble themselves and seek God. Pray together and ask Forgiveness together. Love one another. God will hear from heaven and heal thier land…. and heart.
God tells us that love does not insist on its own way. There has to be compromise. Seek God, then listen for his voice. Or the people of the Holy land will never, ever find peace. The muslim will always ne a thorn in Israels side. God said it, I belive it.

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By: Robert Vincent http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2008/12/11/can-obama-avert-an-arab-israeli-disaster/#comment-4519 Sat, 03 Jan 2009 19:27:21 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/?p=901#comment-4519 It is amazing to me the blatant anti-Semitism displayed by the recent preceding comments.

I would ask any reasonable person: What would any responsible government do if their neighbor harbored a terrorist organization that was bent on that former state’s destruction, would not even recognize their very right to exist, and continually carried out terrorist attacks from the host state’s territory?

Even at the height of the Cold War, with thousands of nuclear weapons pointing at each other, with the two superpowers perhaps one lunatic in a submarine or a faulty circuit away from nuclear annihliation, the Soviet Union and the U.S. recognized each other’s right to exist, had diplomatic relations, even engaged in a small amount of trade.

By contrast, even the PA’s so-called ‘moderate’ Fatah faction under Abbas won’t formally recognize Israel’s right to exist as a Jewish state; this would be like Russia refusing to recognize Poland’s right to exist as a Polish state, or Germany refusing to recognize France’s right to exist as a French state.

As I point out in my December 19th post in this forum, the original modern Israeli state, per the 1947 U.N. partition plan, did not result in the displacement of ANY Palestinian Arabs. The Palestinian Arabs only became refugees as a result of two wars started by their leaders, and/or by the leaders of neighboring Arab states, these being the 1948 and 1967 wars. No country in history has ever been required to cede all territory acquired in a defensive war, and there is no reason that Israel should be forced into being an exception to this established precedent.

Thus, the Palestinian Arabs have no legal basis for “right of return”. At any rate, the majority of ethnic Palestiinian Arabs live in Jordan, which is the real Palestinian state. As I point out in my December 15th post, I find it most curious that the principle of “majority rule” is invoked by the Palestinians and their supporters in the case of the West Bank, but this same principle is completely forgotten in the case of Jordan, right next door, which was part of the original Mandate of Palestine, and which today consists of a majority Palestinian population ruled over by an autocratic, minority sect royal family installed by the British. Where is the moral indignation over this state of affairs on the part of people like “Sidney”?

“Sidney” complains about modern military might being used against a bunch of “poor and hapless” civilians..isn’t this rather like the ‘pool and hapless’ Taliban, who, little better armed or funded than the Palestinians, flew planes into our buildings in 2001? Who nearly carried out a plot in 2006 to blow up multiple airliners over the Atlantic ocean?

For Israel, “Afghanistan” is right next door. By the standards Israel is held to by many, given that Al Queda has not attacked U.S. territory since 2001 (at least not successfully), this means that THEY (Al Queda) have been observing a “cease fire” for seven years! So what is NATO doing in Afghanistan??

For Israel to lose the same proportion of their population that we lost on 9-11, they only have to lose about 60 civilians. The PA – whether controlled by Hamas or Fatah – is responsible for direct, deliberate attacks on unarmed Israeli noncombatants far beyond that number. Yes, the Palestinians are poor and miserable…in no small part because every penny they get – hundreds of millions of dollars and euros every year, not counting the “under the table” monies from places like Iran – goes not to improve the lot of the Palestinians, but to promote hate and violence against Israel, or to simply line the pockets of Palestinian leaders and their cronies.

And if Palestinians enjoyed the freedom of expression indulged in by the likes of “Sidney”, if they actually had the kind of rights he takes for granted, rights that are denied them by their own governments, I’m sure many would protest this state of affairs. One gutsy son of a top Hamas leader did in fact defect and convert to Chisrianity, as are many Palestinians today, so sick are they of the “cult of death” that pervades Islam as they experience it in their world. But, they cannot protest, for if they did, they and their families would surely be killed. With Israel’s F-16s this is a random thing; but speak out against the corrupt thugs of Hamas or Fatah, and death is a certainty.

In any other conflict, all other things being equal, I’m sure everything I say above would be obvious to all. But in this case, we are dealing with one side comprised of Jews. The ugliness, the outrageous double standards displayed below, these are reminiscent of the kind of anti-Semitism driven, cowardly rationalizations we saw in the 1930s for appeasing the likes of Hitler.

Yes, “Sidney”, I suppose if we serve up the Jews of Israel as a sacrificial offering to those “poor, hapless, civilians” of Israel’s surrounding enemies, who make no secret of wanting to kill each and every Jewish man, woman, and child in the Levant, you expect that once this blood lust had been satisfied and those “uppity Jews” had been “put in their place”, there might be peace. And you would be dead wrong. Osama Bin Laden didn’t care a whit about Israel or the Palestinians, he never talked about them until after 9-11. His beef against the “infidels” is much broader and deeper than that, and Israel’s defeat would only serve to embolden the likes of him.

“Jimbo”, however well-intentioned your post, ceding land will not bring peace. This will only serve to validate historically and morally unjustifiable claims of the Arabs, and thus will promote further war. What has happend in Gaza since Israel left in 2005 has more than proved this. It is amazing that further proof was needed, after Israel left south Lebanon in 2000…and for their trouble, got Hezbollah firing rockets at Israeli civilians, and kidnapping Israeli soldiers, leading to war there.

Peace will come when the civilized world can free itself from the fetters of the Arab/Moslem propaganda machine, can truly rise above the anti-Jewish bigotry that so pervades debate concerning Israel, and recognize that Israel is to the war on Islamist-based terror what West Berlin was to the Cold War in their day.

From there, uncompromising support of Israel will ultimately lead to peace, once Israel’s foes – who are also the foes of the liberal democracy we enjoy here – see that they can no longer leverage ignorance and anti-Jewish bigotry in pursuit of their bloody-minded, genocidal aims.

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By: Adam S. http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2008/12/11/can-obama-avert-an-arab-israeli-disaster/#comment-4128 Sun, 28 Dec 2008 01:57:57 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/?p=901#comment-4128 This is one of the most trenchant pieces I’ve seen on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict yet. One state now, one state forever.

Being a pragmatist, I wouldn’t argue that Israeli Jews of European or Ethiopian descent should be forced to return to Europe or Ethiopia, but I would certainly argue that the settlements in the West Bank should be dismantled (hey, aren’t they suburban sub-divisions that are not sustainable energy-wise anyway?) — and that Palestinians within living memory of their homelands should be granted the right-of-return.

For the rest of humanity? Forty acres and mule should do. I await my own.

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By: the war is beginning http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2008/12/11/can-obama-avert-an-arab-israeli-disaster/#comment-4120 Sun, 28 Dec 2008 00:16:19 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/?p=901#comment-4120 Iran and Sirira (U.A.R.) doesn’t go stop for throw nuclear bombs against Israel. And the entire world know the stupid actions in the United Nations Organizations

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By: sidney http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2008/12/11/can-obama-avert-an-arab-israeli-disaster/#comment-4119 Sun, 28 Dec 2008 00:14:56 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/?p=901#comment-4119 This has to be the mother of them all. If after this the U.N and EU do not completely saction israel, then we know that they truely are the fraud that we all knew all along. We already know where the U.S stands on this, so no surprises there.Is this israel’s way of showing its “might” to take on a bunch of already poor and helpless civilians. is this supposed to scare iran or hezbullah? the fact that they are using their F-16s and helicopters on a bunch of rock throwing kids and teenagers?? this is the best israel can do, they know better then to fight hezbullah like this or even Iran because they know that it would be 225 dead israeli soldiers. this validates every thing about israel. they are an American backed puppy who has to take on a bunch of helpless civilians to show their “might”. for a nation who pretends to consider itself relevant in the world’s affairs, this just shows that they are a weak and pathetic government. I feel bad for the good jewish people who are approaching the end of Hannukah. a holiday which observes the persecution and oppression of jews. Is this how the zionists government observes hanukkah?? after this, I hope iran does get a nuclear weapon, it looks like its gonna take something of that nature to keep israel from wodering too far from its pig pen.

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By: SANEEX http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2008/12/11/can-obama-avert-an-arab-israeli-disaster/#comment-4111 Sat, 27 Dec 2008 22:33:55 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/?p=901#comment-4111 israelians ‘ll be punished some day by the one.the strongest god.

ahmadinejad we trust u to beat all jews in israel

in sénegal we belive in palestinian people.we’re against violences and we condamne this genocide.

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By: bruce http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2008/12/11/can-obama-avert-an-arab-israeli-disaster/#comment-4106 Sat, 27 Dec 2008 21:45:15 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/?p=901#comment-4106 The US provides funding for Israel. From exclusive Jewish Settlement building,R&R for arms projects, to aviation fuel for US built F-16’s. All this with no strings. American auto companies might want to ask why a foreign country(Israel) is not held accountable for US tax payer aid,while the American companies are made to grovel

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By: Jimbo http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2008/12/11/can-obama-avert-an-arab-israeli-disaster/#comment-4095 Sat, 27 Dec 2008 20:10:23 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/?p=901#comment-4095 There is no right or wrong in Israel’s response. They have cut off supplies from Gaza and that failing bombed them to stop mortar and rocket attacks. An eye for an eye is not the proper analogy as it is more like a finger for an arm. Only the creation of Palestine with The Dome Of The Rock under their control will ever bring peace. A connecting tunnel from the Dome grounds to a New Jerusalem with connecting highway to the West Bank and Gaza would make Palestine somewhat contiguous. More land as peace continues can be ceded by Israel. Any other solution will be unacceptable to the Arab league and Palestineans.

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By: j http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2008/12/11/can-obama-avert-an-arab-israeli-disaster/#comment-3635 Sun, 21 Dec 2008 10:32:42 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/?p=901#comment-3635 Here is a IDEA>>>>… Can we all just get along?

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