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	<title>Comments on: Turning the tables: Can you help Davos leaders?</title>
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	<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2009/01/27/turning-the-tables-can-you-help-davos-leaders/</link>
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		<title>By: Frans Plugge</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2009/01/27/turning-the-tables-can-you-help-davos-leaders/comment-page-6/#comment-6983</link>
		<dc:creator>Frans Plugge</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Feb 2009 22:45:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/?p=1630#comment-6983</guid>
		<description>No bailouts, no fiat currency, no federal reserve, no government debt, no financial &#039;industry&#039;. Only goods and services should be traded in the real economy. Credit default swaps should be declared void due to force majeur.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No bailouts, no fiat currency, no federal reserve, no government debt, no financial &#8216;industry&#8217;. Only goods and services should be traded in the real economy. Credit default swaps should be declared void due to force majeur.</p>
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		<title>By: Karlheinz</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2009/01/27/turning-the-tables-can-you-help-davos-leaders/comment-page-6/#comment-6957</link>
		<dc:creator>Karlheinz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Feb 2009 14:44:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/?p=1630#comment-6957</guid>
		<description>Putin and Wen pointed towards the politics in the US and the UK and partly they are right.

Wrong macro economics and lack of regulation allowed the bubble to grow until it was not controllable anymore.
So what have we learned out of that? Change the politicians in the US(already happened) and the UK(will happen).

I would like to add another culprit to Putin and Wen`s point of view: US/ UK MBA mangement culture,share holder value culture and greedy irresponsible CEOs sometimes called &quot;leaders&quot;.

This overpaid, short sightened, personally not responsible parasites on top of huge companies should be made personally responsible for losses occured.
They must loose their houses and not receive bonuses instead.
Obama was rightly angry - there should be a mini revolution and we should throw this CEO bankers, Madoffs in prison and confiscate their money to build schools and help the poor. Instead their institutions get our money and we get their debt - hey what a good deal - how will Obama explain this to his citizens!

Run companies with personally responsible &quot;entrepeneur style&quot; people and see what will happen. I can give of course one example: Porsche. Their CEO is personally responsible and would have lost his house if he would have got it wrong - but he hasn`t.

Finally leave the entrepeneurs alone to run succesfully their companies and look for a social market economy as the new third way as obviously capitalism and socialism have failed in this world.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Putin and Wen pointed towards the politics in the US and the UK and partly they are right.</p>
<p>Wrong macro economics and lack of regulation allowed the bubble to grow until it was not controllable anymore.<br />
So what have we learned out of that? Change the politicians in the US(already happened) and the UK(will happen).</p>
<p>I would like to add another culprit to Putin and Wen`s point of view: US/ UK MBA mangement culture,share holder value culture and greedy irresponsible CEOs sometimes called &#8220;leaders&#8221;.</p>
<p>This overpaid, short sightened, personally not responsible parasites on top of huge companies should be made personally responsible for losses occured.<br />
They must loose their houses and not receive bonuses instead.<br />
Obama was rightly angry &#8211; there should be a mini revolution and we should throw this CEO bankers, Madoffs in prison and confiscate their money to build schools and help the poor. Instead their institutions get our money and we get their debt &#8211; hey what a good deal &#8211; how will Obama explain this to his citizens!</p>
<p>Run companies with personally responsible &#8220;entrepeneur style&#8221; people and see what will happen. I can give of course one example: Porsche. Their CEO is personally responsible and would have lost his house if he would have got it wrong &#8211; but he hasn`t.</p>
<p>Finally leave the entrepeneurs alone to run succesfully their companies and look for a social market economy as the new third way as obviously capitalism and socialism have failed in this world.</p>
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		<title>By: Monawar</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2009/01/27/turning-the-tables-can-you-help-davos-leaders/comment-page-6/#comment-6954</link>
		<dc:creator>Monawar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Feb 2009 13:18:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/?p=1630#comment-6954</guid>
		<description>Post Offices are everywhere and the safest money houses; they should arrange all transactions including mortgages and insurances. The taxman, who knows all about everyone and only takes presently can also give timely advice, arrange extra time to pay and arrange above all, good financial partnerships or &#039;marriages&#039; between the rich and &#039;poor&#039; to benefit all citizens equally.

Who needs greedy Bankers who have disgraced and violated the Founder of The Bank of America.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Post Offices are everywhere and the safest money houses; they should arrange all transactions including mortgages and insurances. The taxman, who knows all about everyone and only takes presently can also give timely advice, arrange extra time to pay and arrange above all, good financial partnerships or &#8216;marriages&#8217; between the rich and &#8216;poor&#8217; to benefit all citizens equally.</p>
<p>Who needs greedy Bankers who have disgraced and violated the Founder of The Bank of America.</p>
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		<title>By: McGregor</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2009/01/27/turning-the-tables-can-you-help-davos-leaders/comment-page-6/#comment-6931</link>
		<dc:creator>McGregor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Feb 2009 04:17:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/?p=1630#comment-6931</guid>
		<description>MY SEVEN STEPS TO SAVING AMERICA

Taking toxic waste (In this case loans that are never going to be paid) and moving that waste to another county (in this case the US Treasury), then shipping it back 5 years later to the county it came from miraculously making potable soil is irresponsible dreaming!

STEP 1 (STOP FEEDING THE LIES)
The first thing that the President can do is stop the phoney-baloney that the Treasury Secretary, Federal Reserve Chairman, and people of the ilk of Robert Rubin, and the Media Like the New York Times are serving up to the public. ALL OF IT to date is complete and utter hogwash. The public can smell a rotten egg and if Obama doesn\’t come to terms with that fact quickly, then he will not spend more than one short term in office. 

STEP 2 (BECOME REALISTIC)
All of this nonsense about the Government taking the failed debts of the banks \”temporarily\” to be repaid later is an effort to hide the fact that the Plutocracy of America is more important than the rest of the American People and as they all run for cover the rest of us will be left holding nothing. 

STEP 3 (STOP PRINTING MONEY)
As the Goverment continues to print new currency at an alarming rate (that I might add is no longer reported due to M3 no longer being published), we risk Weimarian inflation. We will be carrying 100 Billion US Dollar Notes in the next 5 years at the current rate of inflationary dollar creation.

STEP 4(REVITALIZE MODERN FED.RES.GOLD CERT. RATIO)
There is no solution to the current financial problem that we face, other than creating \”The Revitalized and Modernized Federal Reserve Gold Certificate Ratio\” as per Sinclair. 

STEP 5 (HIRE RON PAUL AS SPECIAL ADVISER)
Obama should also make Ron Paul his Special Advisor to work with Volker. 

STEP 6 TELL THE ENTIRE COUNTRY THE ABOVE AND EXPLAIN TO THEM WHY IT IS NECESSARY.

Let the Bankers and the Motor companies and any other company that has failed, to fail. Then you will have the trust of the people and other Nations.

STEP 7 (USE THE BIBLE AS YOUR GUIDE)

That’s my solution and it will work if Obama tries it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>MY SEVEN STEPS TO SAVING AMERICA</p>
<p>Taking toxic waste (In this case loans that are never going to be paid) and moving that waste to another county (in this case the US Treasury), then shipping it back 5 years later to the county it came from miraculously making potable soil is irresponsible dreaming!</p>
<p>STEP 1 (STOP FEEDING THE LIES)<br />
The first thing that the President can do is stop the phoney-baloney that the Treasury Secretary, Federal Reserve Chairman, and people of the ilk of Robert Rubin, and the Media Like the New York Times are serving up to the public. ALL OF IT to date is complete and utter hogwash. The public can smell a rotten egg and if Obama doesn\’t come to terms with that fact quickly, then he will not spend more than one short term in office. </p>
<p>STEP 2 (BECOME REALISTIC)<br />
All of this nonsense about the Government taking the failed debts of the banks \”temporarily\” to be repaid later is an effort to hide the fact that the Plutocracy of America is more important than the rest of the American People and as they all run for cover the rest of us will be left holding nothing. </p>
<p>STEP 3 (STOP PRINTING MONEY)<br />
As the Goverment continues to print new currency at an alarming rate (that I might add is no longer reported due to M3 no longer being published), we risk Weimarian inflation. We will be carrying 100 Billion US Dollar Notes in the next 5 years at the current rate of inflationary dollar creation.</p>
<p>STEP 4(REVITALIZE MODERN FED.RES.GOLD CERT. RATIO)<br />
There is no solution to the current financial problem that we face, other than creating \”The Revitalized and Modernized Federal Reserve Gold Certificate Ratio\” as per Sinclair. </p>
<p>STEP 5 (HIRE RON PAUL AS SPECIAL ADVISER)<br />
Obama should also make Ron Paul his Special Advisor to work with Volker. </p>
<p>STEP 6 TELL THE ENTIRE COUNTRY THE ABOVE AND EXPLAIN TO THEM WHY IT IS NECESSARY.</p>
<p>Let the Bankers and the Motor companies and any other company that has failed, to fail. Then you will have the trust of the people and other Nations.</p>
<p>STEP 7 (USE THE BIBLE AS YOUR GUIDE)</p>
<p>That’s my solution and it will work if Obama tries it.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike Bennett</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2009/01/27/turning-the-tables-can-you-help-davos-leaders/comment-page-6/#comment-6903</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Bennett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Feb 2009 15:46:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/?p=1630#comment-6903</guid>
		<description>Well the comments here answer part of your question: if there is a mechanism for getting focused answers to the question you actually want to ask, this is clearly not it!

Something like a semantically-enabled wiki, with some level of permissioning and editorship (AKA gardening) would be a better route. 

The technology to do this is not quite there, but it would help to have something where the ideas people put up are expected to reference established art wherever they can. Then if the referencing was somehow viewable or navigable, those wanting to make sense of the screed of comments and ideas could navigate things in the order in which they link into the wider global and academic conversations. Even original thinking, if it has value, is an original bringing together of existing thinking and existing facts. 

At present the underpinnings of such a thing are in place in the form of the semantic web techniques and some of the existing research in semantic media wikis (I could provide references) but the imaginative stuff needs to be done.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well the comments here answer part of your question: if there is a mechanism for getting focused answers to the question you actually want to ask, this is clearly not it!</p>
<p>Something like a semantically-enabled wiki, with some level of permissioning and editorship (AKA gardening) would be a better route. </p>
<p>The technology to do this is not quite there, but it would help to have something where the ideas people put up are expected to reference established art wherever they can. Then if the referencing was somehow viewable or navigable, those wanting to make sense of the screed of comments and ideas could navigate things in the order in which they link into the wider global and academic conversations. Even original thinking, if it has value, is an original bringing together of existing thinking and existing facts. </p>
<p>At present the underpinnings of such a thing are in place in the form of the semantic web techniques and some of the existing research in semantic media wikis (I could provide references) but the imaginative stuff needs to be done.</p>
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		<title>By: Jack Lindblad</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2009/01/27/turning-the-tables-can-you-help-davos-leaders/comment-page-6/#comment-6869</link>
		<dc:creator>Jack Lindblad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Feb 2009 02:51:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/?p=1630#comment-6869</guid>
		<description>You in the billionaire class, you elitists:

Fatally missing from your proceedings is the addressing of the inextricably entwined collapses of the world economy and of ecological services forcing mass extinction and, sooner than later - human extinction.

You folks have failed to factor in the life-support sustainability of the earth in your ruthless increase in wealth at the hands of the world&#039;s peoples.

To avert looming extinction, the World Economic Forum must face the direct link between unregulated financial profiteering and the equally steep curve of the uncontrolled rate of its component rapacious consumptive-driven, greed-caused resulting climate change head-long descent into planetary environmental complete holocaust.

Real wealth has nothing to do with the non-productive gains realized from the financial bubble, now vanished. 

Real wealth is measured by a steady-state, sustainable economy based on zero carbon emissions, reset to a CO2 neutral flux, an economic activity to 5% of the current levels and a redefinition of the global economy into a constellation of relocalized communities based on bio-regional determinism, watersheds, and local access to necessities of life, education, culture, health care for all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You in the billionaire class, you elitists:</p>
<p>Fatally missing from your proceedings is the addressing of the inextricably entwined collapses of the world economy and of ecological services forcing mass extinction and, sooner than later &#8211; human extinction.</p>
<p>You folks have failed to factor in the life-support sustainability of the earth in your ruthless increase in wealth at the hands of the world&#8217;s peoples.</p>
<p>To avert looming extinction, the World Economic Forum must face the direct link between unregulated financial profiteering and the equally steep curve of the uncontrolled rate of its component rapacious consumptive-driven, greed-caused resulting climate change head-long descent into planetary environmental complete holocaust.</p>
<p>Real wealth has nothing to do with the non-productive gains realized from the financial bubble, now vanished. </p>
<p>Real wealth is measured by a steady-state, sustainable economy based on zero carbon emissions, reset to a CO2 neutral flux, an economic activity to 5% of the current levels and a redefinition of the global economy into a constellation of relocalized communities based on bio-regional determinism, watersheds, and local access to necessities of life, education, culture, health care for all.</p>
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		<title>By: Harry</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2009/01/27/turning-the-tables-can-you-help-davos-leaders/comment-page-6/#comment-6850</link>
		<dc:creator>Harry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 Jan 2009 21:33:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/?p=1630#comment-6850</guid>
		<description>this comment is as true as that tons of sickly swirling air polution effects our climate ... there are many living in 55 states of denial in the US , a false cosmetic lie ... obsessive compulsive illusions of being bulletproof as if life is a computer game .

while bail outs help stop the market panic short term they are a total waste of needed capital .

time to prepare them for the incovenient truth ... buried as they fall for their inhumane ways of doing business ... strength is in righteousness ... the strong survive , and the vacuum can also be filled by government sponsored co-operatives where needed , those who play fair for the common good... an equilibrium of government and private business activity ... it is like a natural order of balance . 

 but a sad fact is a lot of good people are financially trapped in these failed entities... it&#039;s also like helping the morgage defaulters , some are from over indulgent selfish greed , some from inoccent circumstances .... which ones do we help first with our charity ?   work it out quickly or the wasted $$$ supporting moral cowards will be a global disaster .</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>this comment is as true as that tons of sickly swirling air polution effects our climate &#8230; there are many living in 55 states of denial in the US , a false cosmetic lie &#8230; obsessive compulsive illusions of being bulletproof as if life is a computer game .</p>
<p>while bail outs help stop the market panic short term they are a total waste of needed capital .</p>
<p>time to prepare them for the incovenient truth &#8230; buried as they fall for their inhumane ways of doing business &#8230; strength is in righteousness &#8230; the strong survive , and the vacuum can also be filled by government sponsored co-operatives where needed , those who play fair for the common good&#8230; an equilibrium of government and private business activity &#8230; it is like a natural order of balance . </p>
<p> but a sad fact is a lot of good people are financially trapped in these failed entities&#8230; it&#8217;s also like helping the morgage defaulters , some are from over indulgent selfish greed , some from inoccent circumstances &#8230;. which ones do we help first with our charity ?   work it out quickly or the wasted $$$ supporting moral cowards will be a global disaster .</p>
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		<title>By: Monawar</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2009/01/27/turning-the-tables-can-you-help-davos-leaders/comment-page-6/#comment-6822</link>
		<dc:creator>Monawar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 Jan 2009 14:42:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/?p=1630#comment-6822</guid>
		<description>When toxicity is inflicted with potentially lethal agents at dosages which kill 50% of the conscripted receipients (LD50) the experiments are halted by pathologists as it is known and guaranteed that LD70 or greater will wipe out the entire &#039;population&#039;. Also, serious epidemics, unchecked, coalesce rapidly into torrid pandemics with serious global consequences. It is not just foot and mouth, it&#039;s, BSE too. The wretched toxic Bankers having released economic ebolas and marburgs simultaneously, surely, must be cast off on  a far away desert island to spare the rest of commerce and industry from getting wiped out?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When toxicity is inflicted with potentially lethal agents at dosages which kill 50% of the conscripted receipients (LD50) the experiments are halted by pathologists as it is known and guaranteed that LD70 or greater will wipe out the entire &#8216;population&#8217;. Also, serious epidemics, unchecked, coalesce rapidly into torrid pandemics with serious global consequences. It is not just foot and mouth, it&#8217;s, BSE too. The wretched toxic Bankers having released economic ebolas and marburgs simultaneously, surely, must be cast off on  a far away desert island to spare the rest of commerce and industry from getting wiped out?</p>
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		<title>By: Cathy</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2009/01/27/turning-the-tables-can-you-help-davos-leaders/comment-page-6/#comment-6802</link>
		<dc:creator>Cathy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 Jan 2009 08:43:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/?p=1630#comment-6802</guid>
		<description>The justification given for the bank (and insurance/financial services/brokerage/auto) bailout was that they were &quot;too big to fail.&quot;  No one should be too big to fail under capitalism.  They should be free to fail just as they were free to succeed.  Rather than an ill-conceived, knee-jerk, panic bailout with borrowed money by a basically bankrupt country, they should have been busted up into their parts and the viable parts sold off to help offset the bankrupt parts.  

It would be ridiculous to think that someone who is virtually bankrupt would go out and borrow (if they could) a large sum of money and take it to Las Vegas and place the borrowed sum on a roulette wheel thinking that they would be lucky enough to bail themselves out of that debt, but that is exactly what our government has chosen to do - and it has not worked, and had about the same chance of working as the roulette wheel.

Now, it appears that we all get to experience first hand what the word &quot;hyperinflation&quot; means, probably sooner rather than later with the new &quot;stimulus&quot; plan, which will probably just stimulate the money supply more than anything else...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The justification given for the bank (and insurance/financial services/brokerage/auto) bailout was that they were &#8220;too big to fail.&#8221;  No one should be too big to fail under capitalism.  They should be free to fail just as they were free to succeed.  Rather than an ill-conceived, knee-jerk, panic bailout with borrowed money by a basically bankrupt country, they should have been busted up into their parts and the viable parts sold off to help offset the bankrupt parts.  </p>
<p>It would be ridiculous to think that someone who is virtually bankrupt would go out and borrow (if they could) a large sum of money and take it to Las Vegas and place the borrowed sum on a roulette wheel thinking that they would be lucky enough to bail themselves out of that debt, but that is exactly what our government has chosen to do &#8211; and it has not worked, and had about the same chance of working as the roulette wheel.</p>
<p>Now, it appears that we all get to experience first hand what the word &#8220;hyperinflation&#8221; means, probably sooner rather than later with the new &#8220;stimulus&#8221; plan, which will probably just stimulate the money supply more than anything else&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Proton Soup</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2009/01/27/turning-the-tables-can-you-help-davos-leaders/comment-page-6/#comment-6761</link>
		<dc:creator>Proton Soup</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 Jan 2009 08:00:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/?p=1630#comment-6761</guid>
		<description>Klaus, that&#039;s a great question, and I&#039;m not sure you will like the answer. This medium is one of communication, and that requires a significant personal commitment. In my opinion, the most honest dialogs occur on bulletin board-type forums that cater to specific subjects (like say finance) and allow people to post anonymously. Although some people abuse the privilege, anonymity invites honesty and all ideas have to be judged on their own merits, not the name attached to them.

As for the question everyone is answering that you didn&#039;t really ask, how to fix this thing...  I think, at least in the USA, it&#039;s a couple of things.  First is an over-reliance on credit.  We&#039;ve got to turn away from that and encourage not only individuals to save more, but also companies.  Problem is, this is counter to the belief that spending is what drives the economy.  And I do expect it will hurt a bit at first, and may require the banking business to downsize, but it is necessary.

The other thing, which is somewhat related to saving: we need to encourage, and perhaps require, companies to pay dividends instead of keeping all their cash.  This will do a few things.  First, it will remove much of the speculation.  Much of the &quot;money&quot; lost in this crisis was never actually money at all, but simply speculation in the future value of corporations.  With dividends, price/earnings ratios are easily calculated to set the value, and the more CEOs steal the earnings, the more it depresses the stock.  This will restore some honesty to the system, but it might require a hard pill to swallow for our current Democratic administration: cutting or eliminating capital gains taxes on dividends.  I&#039;m neither pro- nor anti- tax here, because I know in the end all tax is passed on to the consumer.  But the psychology of it affects people and has to be dealt with.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Klaus, that&#8217;s a great question, and I&#8217;m not sure you will like the answer. This medium is one of communication, and that requires a significant personal commitment. In my opinion, the most honest dialogs occur on bulletin board-type forums that cater to specific subjects (like say finance) and allow people to post anonymously. Although some people abuse the privilege, anonymity invites honesty and all ideas have to be judged on their own merits, not the name attached to them.</p>
<p>As for the question everyone is answering that you didn&#8217;t really ask, how to fix this thing&#8230;  I think, at least in the USA, it&#8217;s a couple of things.  First is an over-reliance on credit.  We&#8217;ve got to turn away from that and encourage not only individuals to save more, but also companies.  Problem is, this is counter to the belief that spending is what drives the economy.  And I do expect it will hurt a bit at first, and may require the banking business to downsize, but it is necessary.</p>
<p>The other thing, which is somewhat related to saving: we need to encourage, and perhaps require, companies to pay dividends instead of keeping all their cash.  This will do a few things.  First, it will remove much of the speculation.  Much of the &#8220;money&#8221; lost in this crisis was never actually money at all, but simply speculation in the future value of corporations.  With dividends, price/earnings ratios are easily calculated to set the value, and the more CEOs steal the earnings, the more it depresses the stock.  This will restore some honesty to the system, but it might require a hard pill to swallow for our current Democratic administration: cutting or eliminating capital gains taxes on dividends.  I&#8217;m neither pro- nor anti- tax here, because I know in the end all tax is passed on to the consumer.  But the psychology of it affects people and has to be dealt with.</p>
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