Comments on: First 100 Days: The next steps in the Middle East http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2009/02/13/first-100-days-the-next-steps-in-the-middle-east/ Thu, 21 Jul 2016 07:57:19 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=4.2.5 By: moshe pavlov http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2009/02/13/first-100-days-the-next-steps-in-the-middle-east/#comment-8487 Mon, 23 Feb 2009 14:55:08 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/?p=1280#comment-8487 Although war is often advanced by a ruling party, peace when attempted must be pursued by national governments representing the people. Ultimately, peace must be proposed and advanced of the people, by the people and for the people. A peace which is not advanced in this manner can scarcely be considered a lasting peace.
The problem with the peace accords in the region since 1993 is that they have not been proposed by the people and for the people. Arafat pursued a type of war and peace which was for his advantage and did not consider involving the Palestinian people in this endeavor.
Any agreement with but a portion of the Palestinian people will not ensure a lasting peace. The present situation is that the pro-western Fatah party is incapable of enforcing their will upon the ruling Hamas and unfortunately the radical Hamas have no intention at this stage in forging peace.
For the above reasons the two state solution at this time will offer no options for diplomacy. This will continue while radicalism thrives and proper representation within the Palestinian people is lacking. Therefore, what has to be considered is the possibility of offering to those people presently represented by the Fatah party on the West Bank definite improvements in their quality of life; the package should include not only financial incentives but proper representation in an organized government which must at this stage be relegated temporarily with the State of Israel.
This situation if it can achieve real benefit for the peoples of the region should not be considered negatively on ideological grounds. The pragmatic benefits of some sense of statehood although limited when operated for the benefit of all greatly outweigh the evils inherent in a misdirected, radical and total nationalistic identity.
The upshot of this approach is that the Gaza enclave should be viewed as a separate entity and eventually as an independent state of the region; the realization of Palestinian statehood. The West Bank should be relegated as a self-governed area for an indefinite period of time closely connected with the State of Israel. It seems that under certain circumstances this is a pragmatic and viable option for the region. Even if this plan will not be adopted in the diplomatic efforts the actual positions of the parties will be pushing it forward.

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By: dan http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2009/02/13/first-100-days-the-next-steps-in-the-middle-east/#comment-8448 Sun, 22 Feb 2009 20:40:51 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/?p=1280#comment-8448 Anyone who has a shred if decency would not talk about how the problem in the middle east brought on by the lack of education and civility, don’t wish to hard because you might get what you are wishing for, and then you will see the same people are organized, capable of making decisions intelligently, and realizing their economic and strategic powers, then we will note some different Arabs who do not need the outside world to dictate to them on why they should and should not do, Those educated Arabs will pool all resources and create such powers to be reckon with.
Mr. Idyk and his clans know sure well how to confuse the world over, if they are such smart pants as they claim how come the problem was not solved while they had the ears and pockets of the previous administrations.

Look, the problem is as simple as spooks’ brain, give the Palestinian people what you have stole, embezzled, and robed from them and, they will leave you the hell alone.

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By: Dan http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2009/02/13/first-100-days-the-next-steps-in-the-middle-east/#comment-8447 Sun, 22 Feb 2009 20:34:48 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/?p=1280#comment-8447 Anyone who has a shred if decency would not talk about how the problem in the middle east brought on by the lack of education and civility, don’t wish to hard because you might get what you are wishing for, and then you will see the same people are organized, capable of making decisions intelligently, and realizing their economic and strategic powers, then we will note some different Arabs who do not need the outside world to dictate to them on why they should and should not do, Those educated Arabs will pool all resources and create such powers to be reckon with.
Mr. Idyk and his clans know sure well how to confuse the world over, if they are such smart pants as they claim how come the problem was not solved while they had the ears and pockets of the previous administrations.

Look, the problem is as simple as spooks’ brain, give the Palestinian people what you have stole, embezzled, and robed from them, and, they will leave alone.

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By: Eric http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2009/02/13/first-100-days-the-next-steps-in-the-middle-east/#comment-8236 Thu, 19 Feb 2009 22:08:14 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/?p=1280#comment-8236 As you are no doubt already aware, other Arab countries don’t want the Palestinians.

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By: RFL http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2009/02/13/first-100-days-the-next-steps-in-the-middle-east/#comment-8223 Thu, 19 Feb 2009 19:53:46 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/?p=1280#comment-8223 To be sure life in Gaza is miserable – by design on the part of the Israelies. I would think Israel is making life so miserable for the Palestinian Arabs that they will abandon Gaza and the West Bank en masse for places elsewhere in the Arab world.

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By: Eric http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2009/02/13/first-100-days-the-next-steps-in-the-middle-east/#comment-8175 Thu, 19 Feb 2009 04:31:58 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/?p=1280#comment-8175 Yes RFL but remember this: it is important to see people as individual human beings that can think, act and feel. I often ask myself this question: If I was residing in Gaza would I be happy or miserable? My honest answer would be that I would barely last a day there. In this context, it doesn’t matter if “the Palestinians” as a collective group may be responsible for their own misforune, the point is that each Gazan individual is living with a great deal of misery and pain. Imagine a 10-year old boy, for example, that has some kind of virus and is very sick and yet cannot be treated since no doctor can operate due to the medicine shortage. Then add in the extreme heat, the lack of space, food and fresh air and it would be enough to drive even a pacifict crazy, I’d think. A person in that situation is never going to say: “well we brought this on ourselves. Let’s all just accept our fate.” After the most recent seige Gazans have a lot to be angry about, even if collectively they continue to make poor decisions.

Israel may have successfully defended herself, but at the cost of whatever moral credibility she had left.

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By: Abel Tsegga http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2009/02/13/first-100-days-the-next-steps-in-the-middle-east/#comment-8163 Thu, 19 Feb 2009 00:58:24 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/?p=1280#comment-8163 The Borgen Project has some good info on the cost of addressing global poverty.

$30 billion: Annual shortfall to end world hunger.
$550 billion: U.S. Defense budget

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By: RFL http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2009/02/13/first-100-days-the-next-steps-in-the-middle-east/#comment-8126 Wed, 18 Feb 2009 19:26:15 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/?p=1280#comment-8126 To my point Eric – the (many) arabs would rather kill jews than live with them. Certainly not all arabs but enough to make people’s lives dangerous and miserable the world over. And this “jihad” can be considered to be part and parcel of this Palestinian – Israeli conflict as well.

And we don’t want to forget that the arab BAATH have their roots in German nazism of the ’30s. The roots of the conflict between Israelis and Palestinians run far deeper than present Palestinian-Israeli politics and occupation.

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By: Eric http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2009/02/13/first-100-days-the-next-steps-in-the-middle-east/#comment-8115 Wed, 18 Feb 2009 16:46:58 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/?p=1280#comment-8115 Goodness knows Oliver McTernan is very knowledgeable about the Israeli/Palestinian conflict and he undoubtedly knows the local politics in the Gaza strip a great deal, but he has conveniently omitted at least one key point that is seen as vital in the Israeli side. In 2005, Israel rightly left the Gaza strip in its entirety. While this was way overdue it was also a crucial overture for Israel. So who do the Palestinians of voting age elect later that year? HAMAS, which has never made secret its desire to destroy the Israeli state. Some analysts argue that this was a vote against FATAH corruption but I don’t but that entirely; there were other parties to vote for besides either HAMAS or FATAH. Indoubtedly most Palestinians decided to return the favour of Israel’s historic Gaza withdrawl by electing a government pledged to its destruction. Of course Israel would seal its borders–HAMAS has been responsible for many successful suicide bombing attacks in large metropolian areas. The Palestinians may have elected HAMAS but the Israelis did not and should not be obliged to accept a government commited to its destruction.

Mr. McTernan, Hamas IS ”an ideologically driven group of extremists who are determined to wipe Israel of the face of the map”; the very few members of the party that are more pragmatic have long been shut out. Also, say what you will about Abu Mazen, but there was nothing democratic about Hamas routing Fatah members and taking over the Gaza strip; FATAH still won some seats and Mazen was still supposed to be the PM.

As for your claim that ”had Hamas been allowed to demonstrate good governance based on democratic principles and Islamic values” you already know that this may be a dichotomy that is still being debated by political scientists the world over; democratic values may not mix with Islamic values. That’s not to say that that’s a bad thing, it’s just that the two concepts may be incompatible.

Finally, your vague phrasing in the second to last paragraph is telling. ”Hamas must be seen as part of the solution and not the problem. The same applies to the political hardliners in Israel.” From this context it sounds like you’re encouraging negotiations with a very right-wing Israeli government but that’s not what you meant now is it? It would be fitting if you did though as Hamas is clearly a ”right wing” party by its own.

This is not to say that Israel is blameless; in fact I agree that their entire Gaza offensive last month showed to the world how ugly, inhumane, callous and indifferent the Israeli government can be simply because of the ”expiration of a ceasefire” right before both the American inauguration. The claim that the IDF had no choice because Hamas was using ”human shields” only goes to show how perfectly willing it is to rip through such a shield when it isn’t Jews at stake. Nor would an Israeli government ever tolerate any of their own children slowly starving to death trapped with their dead mothers’ rotting corpses. Of course there are whole other sides to this issue; I’m just suggesting you’re being naive about the intentions and desires of Hamas when negotiating.

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By: RFL http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2009/02/13/first-100-days-the-next-steps-in-the-middle-east/#comment-8113 Wed, 18 Feb 2009 15:55:05 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/?p=1280#comment-8113 The sad fact is that the arabs would rather kill jews than live with them.

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