Comments on: We lose when graduates are told to hit the road http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2009/05/20/we-lose-when-graduates-are-told-to-hit-the-road/ Thu, 21 Jul 2016 07:57:19 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=4.2.5 By: s2 http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2009/05/20/we-lose-when-graduates-are-told-to-hit-the-road/#comment-15323 Tue, 26 May 2009 13:39:13 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/?p=3649#comment-15323 Hi,

This is my idea of the big picture. It isn’t pretty so bear with me.

The collapse in the US financial markets has reduced consumer demand in the US economy.

If demand is falling in the economy – the only ways a company can make money is pick up a government contract or downsize expensive labor.

If your company gets a TARP/Stimulus package “shovel ready” contract. You shouldn’t have to be fired unless you are genuinely incompetent and are considered a liability to the company.

If your company can’t get one of these TARP/Stimulus contracts, well then it has to cut costs. The only way to do that right now is replace some of the highly paid folks by cheaper H1B imports.

Now if a million or so people get fired in this kind of replacement scheme – that is just not a significant economic fraction of the country. There will be no additional decline in demand on account of that. Even after you get fired – you are still going to keep using microsoft windows, cisco servers, HP printers etc…

So that is just the economic bottom line.

The other thing is that if you block the import of cheap labor, you will cause a precipitous decline in the profitability of private corporations in the US. This means that in order to prevent your companies from going under the government is going to have to have give out more stimulus and more TARP like recovery packages.

That is more ‘socialist’ policymaking that is unlikely to fly either domestically in the US or internationally either. The world simply cannot support any more debt in the US. Keep that up and you will simply see a flight of capital from the US and that in turn will cause a soviet style collapse.

Let me put it another way. This decline in productivity in the US workforce is not new. President GWB faced it in his time, and he dealt with it by creating circumstances that he felt promoted growth but even he had to take a loan from the federal reserve and that has led to this crazy large deficit. President Obama had to take over where President Bush left off and he is only adding to the deficit right now. If the US withdraws from Iraq or Afghanistan, this is going to add another burden in the form of returning soldiers who will have to be retrenched. Given the number of private soldiers that are in this war, this is going to cost money which is going to add to the deficit.

Bluntly speaking the US is tapped out in terms of the loans it can give itself. Any more and the house of cards will likely fall down.

So – sorry – I realize a lot of you all are in pain – but if you interfere with the flow of foreign technical labor into the US, you will most likely cause far more economic problems than you will be able solve.

I feel the government understands this and while it will lend a kind ear to the voices of disgruntled citizens, it is unlikely to actually do anything that is potentially economically suicidal.

You’re simply going to have to suck it up.

Your best bet at this point will be to try and piggy back on defense industrial contracts. Those are open to citizens only. National labs are being asked to rapidly hire people for Stimulus related R&D and no foreigners can apply there. This should be your first choice. It may involve taking a pay cut right now but atleast after a few years you’re a permanent government employee and they can’t fire you. For every 100,000 they pay you, they spend 400,000 in security screening at some of these places, so its way expensive to fire you.

Alternatively you could try exporting your skills to foreign countries. But this is potentially problematic for two reasons, firstly most of you guys don’t know any language besides English. You’re smart and you can learn so its probably okay – but it is a hurdle you will have to cross. Actually places like India need a lot of mid level people and if you adjusted against PPP your salary in India (or China) is way higher than your salary in the US. Secondly, the moment you talk about going to work somewhere else you have to get past the state department and the Dept. of Commerce’s export regulations. There is some totally bizarre stuff about “deemed exports” that has to be cleared. It is possible but it is a huge pain to navigate and they love to throw you in jail if you make any mistakes on that front. All in all, this is a profitable but difficult transition, I can’t say it should be your first choice.

In the interest of disclosure, I am an H1B married to a US citizen, so I do feel the pain at both ends. I get harassed by the DoS idiots who think that just because I have a PhD and the wrong skin color I am some kind of crazy person and my spouse feels every little pinch due to the economy. We get hit by both sides. Oddly enough there are way more people like us than you’d think.

It is a stinking situation and I wish it could be different.

It doesn’t look very good right now nor do I see it getting much better – best of luck to you guys.

There is a sea of misery we have to wade through here.

]]>
By: Karla http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2009/05/20/we-lose-when-graduates-are-told-to-hit-the-road/#comment-15277 Mon, 25 May 2009 21:25:15 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/?p=3649#comment-15277 Many of these graduates will add much more value to their home country than they will add to the U.S. economy.

It is the morally right thing for the U.S. to allow them to return to their native countries and bring those countries into the first world with their valuable western education.

The U.S. graduates far more highly educated and skilled U.S. citizens and permanent residents than the job market can absorb.

]]>
By: SG http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2009/05/20/we-lose-when-graduates-are-told-to-hit-the-road/#comment-15240 Mon, 25 May 2009 14:55:15 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/?p=3649#comment-15240 It’s easy to forget the personal ambitions of many highly intelligent people who have graduated or are about to graduate so I think a tailored approach is in order. Some graduates may decide to stay in the country only after experiencing something other than a campus life, regardless of the current visa hurdles, so it’s important to provide them with the opportunity to choose without feeling threatened – or indentured – to a specific company.

I think that to change the current conditions of H1B visa issuance some other things need to be looked into first, such as fixing the current backlog of the immigration process. Increasing the number of visas issued in itself will simply increase the backlog.

]]>
By: Tim http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2009/05/20/we-lose-when-graduates-are-told-to-hit-the-road/#comment-15232 Mon, 25 May 2009 10:20:27 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/?p=3649#comment-15232 >>Why do H1B proponents feel they are entitled to everything, but Americans are not?<<

It’s because they compete against us and are able to displace us. Push them out of America, and they will take their jobs with them to wherever they go.

]]>
By: ChloeBauer http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2009/05/20/we-lose-when-graduates-are-told-to-hit-the-road/#comment-15196 Sun, 24 May 2009 15:03:19 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/?p=3649#comment-15196 It’s no longer a matter of IF America is losing it’s compettive edge, but one of how quickly unfortunately. We need to rethink our immigration and employment policies to allow talented and hard-working individuals to contribute and pay taxes to the fragile economy. American companies will be strongest when they thrive, compete and succeed in an environment where the brightest and most talented are allowed to flourish.

]]>
By: Common Sense http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2009/05/20/we-lose-when-graduates-are-told-to-hit-the-road/#comment-15185 Sun, 24 May 2009 02:23:08 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/?p=3649#comment-15185 If more than 50 percent of high-tech workers in Silicon Valley are foreign born, EEOC should investigate. Not once have I read an article where an H1B proponent mentioned how many American-born high-tech workers are highly skilled and available for work, but can’t get work. Nor have I ever read an article where the H1B proponents mention the U.S.-born graduates that won’t get a job. Why do H1B proponents feel they are entitled to everything, but Americans are not?

]]>
By: Darrell http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2009/05/20/we-lose-when-graduates-are-told-to-hit-the-road/#comment-15183 Sat, 23 May 2009 21:38:06 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/?p=3649#comment-15183 CORRECTION!
H1-B visa workers are not immigrants, please stop referring to them as such. OH, some may want to be but then they too will be put out of a job when replaced by another H1-B visa guest worker.
H1-B visa holders are scabs, cheap knock-off replacements that require extensive hand holding in order to come up to speed.
No matter where they come from they are all the same class of ignorance. What’s worse is that most of them do not have a handle on the English language so it makes it even harder to train them.
IT corporate apes like CHEN should be lined up against the wall and painted balled for how they have decimated the citizen and permanent resident engineering population; to me it’s a criminal endeavor to replace United States citizens with their country of choice. It’s tantamount to ethnic cleansing of the STEM workforce; which I find fascinating since most of the corporate officers that preach outsourcing are mostly born here.
But Mr. Chen, you have proven that even CalTech graduates dolts and cretins.

]]>
By: walterbyrd http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2009/05/20/we-lose-when-graduates-are-told-to-hit-the-road/#comment-15169 Sat, 23 May 2009 17:13:46 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/?p=3649#comment-15169 Article is corporate propaganda, and grossly inaccurate.

“We absolutely need H1-B immigrants”

1) We don’t need them. There are four H1B skill levels, practically all H1Bs are hired at the lowest skill levels. With – at least – tens of thousands of US STEM workers recently unemployed, it is impossible for me to believe that there are no US workers to do those jobs.

2) H1Bs are temp workers, not immigrants.

“The National Foundation for American Policy keeps estimates showing that for each H1-B visa, U.S. corporations hire five additional workers.”

I believe this study has been fully discredited. The methodology used to make the determination is beyond absurd. Also, five workers in what? Fast food? And who funded this study? Who funds the NFA? And why is such funding such a big secret?

]]>
By: Greg Gordon http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2009/05/20/we-lose-when-graduates-are-told-to-hit-the-road/#comment-15163 Sat, 23 May 2009 15:14:09 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/?p=3649#comment-15163 If these foreign students truly are necessary, and if the U.S. has an interest in educating them, then let’s change the laws so that the U.S. sees a return on its investment. Foreign students should be forced to apply for U.S. citizenship immediately while they finish their degrees. They must pursue only technical or scientific degrees. They must sign no-compete agreements so that if they leave the U.S. for more than six months then they will forfeit the investment that the U.S. paid for them. This can be implemented in the form of a 20% tax on their income which goes into a 401K plan that they may not touch until their retirement. Companies that hire these students must not receive any federal or state economic stimulus funds and may not bid on any government contracts as long as there are unemployed American high tech workers living within 50 miles of any of its offices.

]]>
By: Nick Gibsom http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2009/05/20/we-lose-when-graduates-are-told-to-hit-the-road/#comment-15151 Sat, 23 May 2009 11:12:49 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/?p=3649#comment-15151 I think that Goverment is screwed up! I have resumes at different companies, all top jobs, and I known that a H-1B person has gotten one of them. Maybe I got my degrees too young for the programs that goverment offered.

]]>