Comments on: Where the healthcare debate seems bizarre Thu, 21 Jul 2016 07:57:19 +0000 hourly 1 By: scheng1 Wed, 25 Nov 2009 13:42:15 +0000 Interesting analysis. I still prefer Singapore method of managing healthcare.
It’s an automatic opt-in personalized (the premium based on age of individual) system with option to upgrade. The government provides heavy subsidies for lower income and various schemes so that basic medical care is available to all.
Those who want better service can upgrade.

By: Hugo Wed, 19 Aug 2009 18:16:06 +0000 My dearest American friends

I was born and raised in a socialistic country as Mike just told and, surprise surprise, my healthcare system is not perfect, I see everyday people struggling to get an appointment with the doctor, I see public manifestations of discontentment with what my country is doing with the public healthcare system. And yes I see people crossing the Atlantic Ocean either to go to United States or Cuba, yes….. Cuba, and Thailand to get second or even third opinions about something that has been wrongly, or not, diagnosed in their home country, or even to get an operation because the waiting lists were to dam long, or because these people can afford it… I don’t know. There is a million excuses for all of the above, but there is no excuse for letting people dying of cancer just because you can]t afford either the treatment or the insurance….nop that I never saw in my socialistic country.
It is not needed in my very modest opinion, of a person born and raised in a socialistic country, to something to be mentioned in a theory in psychology such as Maslow’s hierarchy of needs that is dated of 1943, to be considered a HUMAN RIGHT.
And my dearest American friends, as Mr. Mike wrote, and I quote – I was raised in America, where we value individual thought, independence and freedom from government intrusion in our lives…end of quote, I specially like the last sentence…- freedom from government intrusion in our lives it’s the cherry on top of the cake!!! Well sure because my government follows me every step of the way of my life. When they legislate something I have to obey the laws, in America is different?????
If I do any harm, I have to pay either with social service or jail or pay a fine, is it different in America??????? Or what you are trying to say is that every one in your country do whatever they want with their credit cards and money, and the rest of the world ends out paying with a world crisis!!!! Or a bandit like Madof put the biggest scheme in the history of schemes!!

Ps- I am sorry for my awful grammatical construction of the English words I just wrote!

By: mike Sat, 08 Aug 2009 04:28:08 +0000 so if health care system is so great in Australia, Great Britian and Canada, why do I see so many of those folks visiting Thialand for surgeries and treatments?

Health care is not a human right. I’ve never seen that on Maslov’s Hiearchy of Needs. But then again, I wasn’t raised in a socialistic country. I was raised in America, where we value individual thought, independence and freedom from government intrusion in our lives.

And to me that is the single biggest issue! Yes, I don’t want to pay for someone else’s health care. Yes I’m upset that those elected officials voting on the issue haven’t even read the bills they’re voting on. Yes the cost is too high. But most important to me, is I don’t want our inept government involved in my health care.

For you socialist that like your government health care, I’ve got 47 million more members, what’s your shipping address?

By: Michael Williams, MD Wed, 05 Aug 2009 15:48:56 +0000 To David and all those who think that innovation in medicine comes exclusively or even largely from US companies, you’re simply mistaken. By way of an exemple, yesterday’s Wall Street Journal online published an article about early detection of Ovarian Cancer, the two sites that conducted the research werer on at Stanford, and the other in the UK. The same UK that has had the NHS since WWII. Novo Nordisk, a leader in Diabetes Research is based in Europe. Bayer, is based in Germany. The Japanese have been leading in medical imaging as have the Germans (Siemens).

We need to wake up here and realize that like everything else, health care innovation is global and will stay that way. We need to stop being afraid and figure out a way to do what NEARLY EVERY OTHER COUNTRY we compare ourselves to has done and find a way for a well-run, accountable, government health care system that not only pays for but provides care to function alongside private insurers who actually have to seek out all the customers they can get their hands on vs. just the ones least likely to actually use the services in question. Some of the existing companies will no doubt not be able to compete. C’est la vie. As long as no American ever again has to ask themselves if they should buy their medication or buy their family’s groceries. That’s what health care reform is about, not whether innovation will survive.

By: Sandra Wed, 05 Aug 2009 04:44:05 +0000 This is a bunch of crap! I’ve lived in England and the HC is the pits. It would take us 6 months to get a normal check up and most of the doctors were not educated. Also, I had a friend who got cervical cancer because England kept upping the age to get the test from 18yr to 20yr and then 25yr. If we go to this system we are going backwards. This is not the answer!

By: Christian Sun, 02 Aug 2009 07:01:36 +0000 Answer from France: (Nota: Christian is a firstname)
Quote from David:
“Of course, the most important point in this whole debate is that it is immoral to force one person to pay for the health care of the other. ”
So, in your country, soldiers are forbidden? Some who protect someone else…
In Europe, when I pay to be sure others are healthy, I protect my girls from epidemies. Ask why USA have hundreds of deaths from flu H1N1 and France none.
It’s because, in France, sick people goes to doctor because it’s nearly free (we have to pay 1.5$ out of 50$). In USA, from what I heard, they don’t go because they can’t afford the price, so the epidemy spreads.
Universal Insurance is ALSO defense of the country and of ALL the citizens. That’s why even illegal immigrant have free access to health in France (at least for basics and vital issues).
Hope this widen the debate.
I apologize for my poor english (even, as said my english friends, if my english is better than your french :) )

By: David Fri, 31 Jul 2009 22:59:48 +0000 Pfft. I love how the author decries statistics and then turns around and uses the numbers he likes even though they completely ignore demographic differences between the countries being compared.

He also, very importantly, ignores the fact that the only reason these countries are able to provide the care they do is because of the innovations in medicine that come almost solely from one source: the United States. We are the only country left where someone can innovate in medicine and be rewarded for their efforts.

From an excellent article on the Swedish health care crisis by Walter Williams:

Dr. Olle Stendahl, a professor of medicine at Linkoping University, pointed out a side effect of government-run medicine: its impact on innovation. He said, “In our budget-government health care there is no room for curious, young physicians and other professionals to challenge established views. New knowledge is not attractive but typically considered a problem (that brings) increased costs and disturbances in today’s slimmed-down health care.”

Full article: 1

Of course, the most important point in this whole debate is that it is immoral to force one person to pay for the health care of the other. Until and unless people understand Individual Rights (as we used to in this country) we are screwed anyway.

Learn about rights here:

By: Bart Fri, 31 Jul 2009 16:39:10 +0000 “Clearly, America at this moment in time has not recently experienced an epoch-shattering historical event like a World War ”

No, instead we were the ones that sent our troops over to europe twice to win both World Wars. Then we set in place the Marshall Plan. Maybe now it is time to pay us back for our generosity in blood. I suggest Europe pay for all Americans to have free health care. This sounds fair, because it is exactly what the debate is about and will solve the major hurdle. Who will pay for this health care plan? Those that work will end up paying for those that don’t. But if the europeans pay for it then it is a win win situation. Europeans can say see we told you so and no American will have to fork out a dime for the lame and lazy.

By: DJB Fri, 31 Jul 2009 14:52:43 +0000 “You play outside the boundaries, you pay for yourself. There needs to be sound limits on what is provided for by the taxpayers and what constitutes personal injury.”

The problem is that, the people you say must pay for themselves, already did.. through there taxes. So what you really mean is that they have to pay for YOUR healthcare AND their own.

Elective abortions better not be covered in socialized systems either… talk about personal injury, not to mention the thin line of ethics crossed by taking (stealing) somebody’s tax dollars and forcing them to fund something they believe is murder of an infant.
Why stop at eating and smoking behavior? Why should I pay for the idiot’s care who took the chance to go ride a motorcycle? or sped in a car on the highway? How about the child who’s parent’s didn’t want to vaccinate him as an infant and ended up with hepatitis? should society pay for this care now because the parent’s had different ethical belief’s about vaccinations, regardless of the increased risk they posed. Or will it be that everyone will be forced or coerced through taxes/fines any means to GO to the doctor and get these treatments.

This is one of the ethical problems of universal healthcare. What is covered? Who is covered? Should never be addressed to a society as a whole. It is an individual question that must be answered by each person/family, and the choice must be each of ours to get insurance that fulfills our own beliefs. And not have our money stolen from us to fund something we might think is murder, or promotes irresponsible behavior, or is simply fundamentally against what we believe in.

By: prochoice Fri, 31 Jul 2009 14:39:16 +0000 Regarding The Bell’s comments:
Health insurance do not make money off of the sick, those are the people they lose money off of. If everybody stayed healthy, they still get their premiums, and lose nothing to hospitals. Elementary logic.
Who gains from people staying sick (in both socialized and NON countries)? Doctors… they can make more money and mostly are guaranteed jobs with more sick people, even in socialized countries. So blame the doctor’s based on your rant.

But in actuality, the AMA is the medical cartel that has caused a lot of the problems in America, they keep med school applicant’s/grads down to limit competition, keep their salaries up, among other benefits for themselves. Why don’t we actually try a free market healthcare system before saying it doesn’t work. We already know socialized healthcare provides rationed care decided by beaurocrats and access to waitlines of years in many cases (even for simple check-ups); also it is a never ending economic drain on society because of the inherent flaw of having no way to control costs over time other than controlling wages, and controlling who gets what, rationing care…