Driven to drink by marijuana laws?
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Bernd Debusmann is a Reuters columnist. The opinions expressed are his own)
Tough marijuana laws are driving millions of Americans to a more dangerous mood-altering substance, alcohol. The unintended consequence: violence and thousands of unnecessary deaths. It’s time, therefore, for a serious public debate of the case for marijuana versus alcohol.
That’s the message groups advocating the legalization of marijuana are beginning to press, against a background of shifting attitudes which have already prompted 13 states to relax draconian laws dating back to the 1930s, when the government ended alcohol prohibition and began a determined but futile effort to stamp out marijuana.
How dismally that effort has failed is not in doubt. Marijuana is so easily available that around 100 million Americans have tried it at least once and some 15 million use it regularly, according to government estimates. The U.S. marijuana industry, in terms of annual retail sales, has been estimated to be almost as big as the alcohol industry — $113 billion and $130 billion respectively. On a global scale, marijuana is the world’s most widely used illicit drug.
Since the United States, and much of the rest of the world, plunged into a recession last year, the most frequently used argument in favour of legalizing marijuana has been economic: if it were taxed, the revenue would help stimulate economic recovery just as a gusher of dollars in fresh tax revenue from alcohol helped the United States pull out of the Great Depression after the 1933 repeal of prohibition.
That idea enrages some leading drug warriors, including the head of the United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime, Antonio Maria Costa. In the preface to the U.N.’s 2009 World Drug Report, he asks whether proponents of legalization and taxation also favour legalizing and taxing human trafficking and modern-day slavery “to rescue failed banks.”
Never mind that drug abusers hurt themselves and human traffickers hurt others. It’s the kind of topsy-turvy logic which has made sober discussion of national and international drug policies (largely driven by the United States) so difficult for so long.
The case for adding a compare-and-contrast dimension to the debate is laid out in a statistics-laden book to be published next month entitled “Marijuana is Safer, So why are we driving people to drink?” The authors are prominent legalization advocates – Steve Fox of the Marijuana Policy Project, Paul Armentano of the National Organization for the Reform of Marijuana Laws (NORML) and Mason Tvert, co-founder of SAFER (Safer Alternative for Enjoyable Recreation).
“The plain and simple truth is that alcohol fuels violent behaviour and marijuana does not,” Norm Stamper, a former Seattle police chief, writes in the foreword of the book. “Alcohol … contributes to literally millions of acts of violence in the United States each year. It is a major contributing factor to crimes like domestic violence, sexual assault and homicide. Marijuana use … is absent in that regard from both crime reports and the scientific literature. There is simply no causal link to be found.”
LACK OF COMMON SENSE
Violence committed by belligerent drunks apart, there is the question of which drug — marijuana or alcohol — is more harmful to your health. The authors cite government statistics and a long string of academic studies that show marijuana is less harmful.
According to the National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism, around 35,000 Americans die of alcohol-related diseases every year. That’s almost 100 a day. Add to this another 16,000 people killed in road accidents involving drunk drivers. There are no equivalent statistics for deaths linked to marijuana use.
Yet alcohol is legal, marijuana is not. The monumental lack of common sense in the attitudes of successive U.S. administrations towards marijuana is one of the explanations for a steady shift in public attitudes as reflected by opinion polls. In May, a Zogby poll found 52 percent support for treating marijuana as a legal, taxed and regulated substance.
Opposition to legalization, polls show, has been weakening over the past few years. Before 2005, no national poll showed support for legalization above 36 percent.
But surveys also show that there is a persistent perception that alcohol and marijuana are equally harmful and that legalization would merely add another vice.
“This perception is wrong,” says Tvert, “and it can’t be corrected overnight. What we aim for is legislation that would give adults the choice between alcohol and a less harmful alternative. Current laws steer people towards alcohol because they fear the consequences of being caught using marijuana. But I think we are nearing a tipping point.”
Perhaps. One of the biggest obstacles on the road to policy changes is a sprawling bureaucracy of drug warriors who have an obvious interest in keeping things as they are and have long practice in shrugging aside data and evidence. During the eight years of the Bush administration, they were led by a staunch, ideologically-driven proponent of prohibition at any cost, drug czar John Walters.
The man President Barack Obama chose as his top drug policy official, Gil Kerlikowske, is likely to be more open to rational argument. Kerlikowske succeeded Norm Stamper as Seattle police chief and during his tenure, possession of marijuana by an adult ranked as the city’s lowest law enforcement priority. Lower than running a red light.
(You can contact the author at Debusmann@Reuters.com)
(Editing by Kieran Murray)
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The most interesting part of this article to me is
“That idea enrages some leading drug warriors, including the head of the United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime, Antonio Maria Costa. In the preface to the U.N.’s 2009 World Drug Report, he asks whether proponents of legalization and taxation also favour legalizing and taxing human trafficking and modern-day slavery “to rescue failed banks.””
My thought is if you legalize the stuff won’t companies like Proctor and Gamble or Reynolds get in on the game therefore eliminating the need for trafficking and thus counter-act this point? I mean right now, since it is illegal, if you want to buy Marijuana you are buying on the black market so it has to been grown and harvested illegally. If you could buy it at Circle K or 7/11 then that need drops.
Now this may sound like I am pro-Marijuana maybe even a user, but I am not a user and personally I don’t think that our a lot of current laws make sense. A lot of these laws get passed and later we figure out that they are a mistake, I think we are stuck with them so that we can “save face”.
Just my humble view and the end of the day won’t mean much.
Seems to me, that with the illicit profits removed from marijuana, that organized, and disorganized criminals wouldnt really care to deal with it. since there wouldnt be any profit int he green and leafy. (huge incentive)
its said that mj is a gateway drug. but pretty much from what ive seen in my days, its only so because the people who sell the stuff also dabble in other illicit stuffs.
alone, the obscene amount of money that enforcement and imprisonment of marijuana laws and offenders cost this nation. . and you have several good reasons to admit that the standing policy has been nothing but lies and distortions. at the taxpayers expense.
seriously understand its biology and legalize the stuff already.
Legalize it and empty the prisons of the non violent offenders. Then there would be room for the murders, rapists, theives, ect
The biggest obstacle is making people believe the truth, which is the opposite of what most of the American public have been told. Marijuana is evil, will cause you to become insane and will lock you into an endless cycle of addiction…or will it?
Saying substance A is less harmful than substance B isn’t a reason to immediately legalize it. But we also can’t ignore the fact that alcohol and it’s abuse have serious risks, ones that we already know cannot be curbed simply by banning it. We have poured our taxes into the war on drugs, raided medical marijuana dens and thrown countless citizens into jail in an effort to put a stronge face forward. But has it helped the situation?
I believe no matter what, people will eventually see that simply pouring money into the problem has done nothing but create new ones. Instead of smugglers, we now have growers finding it safer to move into our country, we have a police system that frees “small-time” offenders in return for information about king-pins, and an over-crowded legal system that is stretched to it’s boundaries both in terms of space, budget and manpower. De-criminalizing possession and imposing taxes would allow the DEA and law officials to focus on more dangerous street-drugs as well as help balance the enormous expenditure our current “War on Drugs” has had.
I don’t have much to say other than I think that the law is stupid. I know a lot of people that smoke and honestly they’re much more pleasant to be around than the drunk ones you have to carry out from a bar. I don’t smoke, myself, but wouldn’t care if it were legalized. Everyone can make their own decisions whether or not they want to.
One of the most fascinating things I’ve noticed about the anti-legalization articles, is that they make it seem like once Marijuana is legalized, EVERYONE will smoke it. Just like cigarettes and alcohol (which I personally think do more harm), it would be a personal choice. Yes, there are MANY, MANY people addicted to, if not one, than both. But there are also people that have made the choice not to be. The same would happen with weed.
And in response to a previous comment about being a business owner and weed showing up in your system weeks later (and not alcohol)… blah blah blah. Yes, weed does show up in your system weeks later, good point. However, you failed to recognize that other, more harmful drugs such as meth get flushed out of your system within a few days. Which would you rather hire, sir? A person that takes Meth (except for a few days prior to your drug screening) or someone that smokes?
If it’s that big of a deal to business owners, then drug test your employees. For those business owners who don’t care… who cares! As long as your workers aren’t coming to work high or drunk, and they get their jobs done, why does it matter what they do in their personal lives? I know so many EXECS that get high, it’s ridiculous. I was actually SHOCKED.
It’s not my right to make decisions for everyone else, only myself.
Okay, so I guess I had a lot to say.
The only harm that people get from weed is from getting caught with it. if it wasn’t illegal then it would not be a problem. In the land where people think that they are free why are we afraid of a plant?
We will be a free nation when only real criminals are incarcerated.
Mr. Debussmann has hit the nail on the head with this article, thank you for writing it.
I like to imbibe either one after work, alchohol mostly out of habit, although I’m not addicted (one CAN enjoy a drink without being an alchoholic). I have heard of a small number of individuals that have become addicted to marijuana but it’s rare. People can get addicted to literally anything.
Over the years I have consumed much more alchohol than I would have if marijuana had been legal. One reason, besides fear of jail, is accessibility. Everyone assumes that you can walk out onto any street and buy mj. That may or may not be true but many of us who toke are not willing to deal with people that we do not know. It tends to get harder to find as you get older. I would much rather be able to walk into a store (maybe mj could be sold through liquor stores) and have the choice of whether to buy a bottle of wine or a couple of joints. Maybe I’d buy a little of each. Everyone would NOT grow their own, that’s a ridiculous argument.
Alchohol definitely has a detrimental effect on your body, I don’t feel that with marijuana. It’s a mild pain killer, helps you to relax and I sleep much better with no alchohol-like effects the next morning. As far as it being an aquired taste or comparable to presciption drugs I’d say to each his own. If you don’t like it, don’t partake. Speaking of prescription drugs, it is my belief that if mj were legal that many people would use it rather than chemical prescription drugs that big pharma likes to try out on the public. We’ve seen how well THAT’S worked out.
Drug companies will fight legalization, so will companies that produce alchoholic drinks. Greed is ruining everything. I think that legalization will prevail, it makes too much sense on so many levels.
Most of you on here that do not support marijuana and its many many positive attributes are completely uneducated, you believe stereo types from the media and government but chances are you probably know tons of people who smoke or use it medicinally and dont even know it. You make Americans look stupid because of your own shallow interests. Wake up, its the 21st century, no more witch burnings and black slavery, no more average age of 45, wake up because the Country as a whole is starting to. Before long all of you anti-pot advocates will be on the wrong side of the tracks defending something archaic and ridiculous.
The biggest obstacles to legalization are the alcohol producers and the pharmaceutical companies.
They both stand to lose a lot of customers. They’re going to spend a lot of money lobbying against legalization. They do not want this to happen. Bastards.
I’ve smoked for quite some time. Not addicted, but just don’t drink much and prefer the light buzz over the stupor from alcohol. It’s a choice.
I researched drugs in college and gave presentations to local schools about the dangers of alcohol and drugs, never telling the kids, “Don’t take them”, but if they make a choice to do so, here are some warning signs to indicate potential problems, at which point, we instructed the kids, to stop, or the cut way back, it’s a choice that each individual has to make on their own. Weed has some mior addictive qualities, but nowhere near those of alcohol or cigarettes.
The catalyst for change will most likely come from abuse of pain killers, i.e. Heath Ledger, Anna Nicole, and Michael Jackson. Pain killers such as Loritabs Percocet, and Vicadin are the most abused drug in America, and probably more dangerous then alcohol or cigarettes, but widely perscribed and easily available on the internet. The abuse needs to stop and marijuana is the best answer for pain management and to curb bad habits such as drinking or smoking cigarettes.
Weed contains some harmful carcinogens, but nothing as bad as cigarettes. Pot is not that bad and is not a gateway drug any more than ciagarettes or alcohol. Marijuana is an effective way to manage pain and should be legalized.
I myself have smoked it in the past and believe the same, it should be legal, controlled and taxed. Over the past year I have suffered from sever cervical disc degeneration. I am on oxymorphone, norco (hydrocodone), norflex, elevil and have been prescribed others. I would trade all of these for a bag and I KNOW it would help ease the pain. However, I’m a father of 3 and can’t afford to go to jail for purchasing or possessing, the risk is too great. So, I’m prescribed probably $750 a month in prescriptions that can easily be traded for $100 in marijuana.
I don’t want to hear any more junk about health-care cost.
Our Government controls everything and wrestling any control from them is nearly impossible. It appears we have some traction on this subject since they likely mostly toke themselves….If things change, it will be a result of our government having determined some new self serving, income producing, power enhancing strategy for it’s own benefit and growth.
Hopefully they arrive at some such new found benefit and provide us with a legal manner in which to enjoy our smoke.
to the opposition – pay my bills if you want to tell me how to live, otherwise, mind your own business – I’m a human being, not a slave to your prettily flowered fantasies of perfection. The kind of people who bow down and accept these inhumane laws and regulations are much the same as the Africans who got onto the slave ships without a fight – slaves, without the dignity of their true freedom of choice – freedom to make mistakes – freedom to learn from them, and the freedom to decide for themselves which drug best fits them, should they feel like YOUR lifestyle sucks too much (for them). And yes – I’ve tried sobriety – AA, Na, CA, y not, (eh?. What I found was that it lacked the sparks – lacked the shine – it lacked all of the way around. I have written four books, and I smoke pot – I’ve owned my own business while smoking pot, but lost everything when I tried to go straight – go figure, and screw you, to those who want to be my daddy
The lengths people will cover to protect their right to destroy their own brain cells. If you believe that scrambling your thought processes is a viable activity, and that all we’re arguing about here is the best method, everyone has missed the point. Are you unable to live with your own consciousness, just the way it came from the factory? How come?
This Tit for Tat examination is very beneficial to our society. The question of numbers is impossible to quantify with or without factual data. No one knows exactly how many people die from overdosing on alchohol. No one knows exactly how many college students drop out because they drank their brain cells to death in their freshman year. No one knows how many people get beat up and their money stolen while attempting to buy pot. In my experience the very worst part of using marijuana is purchasing it through the black market. That market in itself embodies all of the evils that you would find with the hardest of drugs. You never know what the outcome is going to be and you have to accept extreme risk just to make a transaction. The Medical Marijuana industry removes all of that risk and provides a clean, safe and healing environment. They dont let people without a doctors recommendation in the door. They dont let kids in the door. They make sure that there is affordable and market priced medecine available for everyone. They pay taxes to the state and in most cases provide in home supportive services to the sickest of patients. Compare that to someone slinging buds on the corner…
To the business owner Bob: Methamphetamine use will not show up on a drug test after 5 days. Marijuana use will show up on a drug test for up to 60 days after use. Your comment that “if it can still be detected, it is still affecting you” is outright wrong. THC is fat soluble and remains in your system long after the euphoric effects have passed. By your logic if you have liver damage from drinking alchohol, and everyone does since alchohol damage is the one thing your liver cannot regenerate from, you are still drunk. As a business owner you are at liberty to decide who works for you or who doesn’t but if you think that weeks old pot use is more of an issue than yesterdays methamphetamine use you have some learning to do.
Legalization and taxation faces the drawback that if anyone can grow it you would only go to the store when you wanted variety or ran out. The imaginary “Green Gold Rush” that is supposed to save our economy will not be the windfall everyone is predicting. That doesn’t mean it will not make money, it will, but it won’t be the almighty all in one magic bullet economic salvation that we as a country so desperately need.
Outstanding article. I nearly died from a vascular disease that was directly caused by alcohol…which resulted in the removal of SEVEN FEET of my small intestine. The alcohol had destroyed my immune system…and ultimately forced me to go on Chemo for nine months. Guess what the doctor advised me to do to contol the nausea? That\’s right…smoke canabis. The weed I consumed during my recovery was enormously beneficial….in alleviating the nausea, stimulating my appetite, etc. It\’s time to stop the madness and legalize canabis! The ONLY reason it is legal is because of the Liquor, Paper and Cotton Industries banning together to try and protect their self-interest. In fact, those industries PAID FOR AND PRODUCED the movie \”Reefer Madness\” that first coined the term \”Marijuana\”. Until that movie, everyone referred to it as Hemp. They wanted to attach a negative connotation to weed….which hemp did not have.
Maybe if our policy makers pulled their heads out of their arses….we could make legalization possible. I won\’t hold my breath.
thanks for the article.
One problem that is often overlooked is that the purchase of marijuana puts otherwise law-obiding citizens in contact with criminals. Obviously legalising marijuana would eliminate this issue.
The only reason I no longer smoke it is that the people you have to associate with in order to get it are generally scumbags.
I smoked it for the best part of 15 years EVERY SINGLE DAY and still managed to hold down a professional job. I don’t think many alcoholics could make the same claim.
Someone posted earlier saying that this wouldn’t help the economy, because people would just grow their own weed, and not buy it.
Two problems with this argument.
1) From my understanding, it may be easy to grow weed, but it’s not easy to grow weed which actually can be smoked/consumed. It requires a lot of knowledge actually, as well as special equipment to grow effective weed. Just planting a marijuana seed and watering it isn’t going to be enough to make something usable.
2) Just because it’s possible doesn’t mean people aren’t going to buy it. It’s possible to make alcohol too, and while everyone knows a few people who do it, there aren’t a lot.
We need to look at the illegal nature of pot as we do a taxed good. Pot has a tax on it already, that being risk. Because it is risky to distribute or use pot its price stays artificially high. As soon as you reduce the risk the price will plummet. Once the price plummets the large pot operations will quickly go belly up and local , small growing operations will take over if at all. Lets face it this stuff grows like a weed under most environments. The fact that pot is illegal is what keeps it in business. Just think of the things you could buy when your dope bill drops from $400/month to nothing. Now that is a stimulus package.
I enjoy reading this topic, and the opinion, yet small but assuring. We as a society, even though wemay not admit it, are a society of test rats, and I find it funny just by in anything you can see. The Beluga whale , in the arctic ocean, has been found to have cancer. Hmm cancer you sy, animalsdont get cancer, this has been only known true to humans. Why does this matter to this conversation, it only matters to how much your contribution to lobiestsd, and corruption that yuo hide and deem ok, as long as it only affects a few people. Now we all know that we have the right to fight for anything that we want as a democratic society. It is really easy to arrest and detain people for using a “controlled Substance”. Most hippy or radical demonstrators , or people who are not consumed by the hypnotization of “Society”, and the I have the money the gold and the voice of everything, and if you dont do as I say you are wrong Beaurocratic leaders and voices.We are goverend by almost some unknown force. Buy my oil, take the drugs I say are ok, and they keep giving us cancer, but STFU lab rats, how dare you think that youur relaxing awakeining pot smoking , it may wake you from the intoxicating slumber of confusion that wer have spent so much time and money for you to awaken now. Please this madness will never end. face it. LOL we are doomed to fail, because when somethng is under to much control, can only go one way, out of control. ha, If we make it to 2012, I will see you all there I hope. this is going to be fun.Any way, have a great day. Toke on, and you do gooders that didnt say much with your opinion, because you are even more confused of all. you spend more at church for the pastor do drive in a better car than you and have a nicer house, so he can touch your kids, and disdain his own propoganda.
This debate has been going on for so damn long that no one understands what the real issues are anymore. the first laws were made to stamp out the mexican sharecroppers. since that time it has been proven to cause insanity, moral decay, and death. no wait that was reefer madness, put out to show the horror of this deadly plant. so since that was proven wrong by, well every one who has ever smoked it, you have to wonder what lies will they say to be right? same goes for advocates of pot, while they are pushing for what i think, there is an issue with any drug. the reason that weed should be legal is that this law above all others has been contested and fought since it was created. we were founded on the idea of people having control of thier government and being able to change things to adapt to the NEEDS OF THE PEOPLE. every job out there has smokers in it from fastfood to ceos. its just another time that someone in our government failed us. Now is the time to fix our problems, from little ones like this, to bigger ones like medicare and the economy. oh and to whoever thinks that people will all grow their own plants instead of buying from the cornerstore, please let me know where you get your goods? you can make whiskey, grow tobacco, but no one does that because its easier to buy goods then make them. Not to mention that there is more to it then seed soil water. bottom line, the ill effect on the economy from this doesnt exist and the potental for good is slight. this decition is about the drug not its effect on our economy.
Pitting alcohol against pot is an ultimately pointless endeavor, and the idea that pot is an alternative to alcohol within the scope of human civilization is based completely on conjecture and zero verifiable evidence.
First, alcohol is a food ingredient and not simply another drug. It occurs naturally in a numerous plant based foods. Studies and observational evidence seem to suggest that the biological basis for alcohol consumption is tied closely to nutritional requirements in wide variety of animals. This biological basis might explain why certain primates have a statistical propensity to consume alcohol, which almost exactly matches that of humans.
This genetic component to the attractiveness of alcohol might explain why alcohol containing foods, namely beer and wine, have at some point served as a significant component in the diets of the vast majority of human civilizations. Historical evidence suggests that the production of alcoholic beverages was vital for preserving cereals thus allowing the caloric content of those crops to be exploited longer than would have been possible without fermentation. In addition, before the advent of modern water filtration techniques, alcoholic drinks were primary beverages in many places and often consumed even more frequently than water itself. Overall, the ubiquity of alcohol has caused it to be a significant parameter in an uncountable number of human social interactions and cultural events. With some thought it is not hard to realize that the unfolding of human history would have been completely different without the presence of alcohol. The same cannot be said about marijuana.
I’ve said nothing about whether marijuana should be legal or not as that is an entirely different discussion, but I do think that comparing it to alcohol is an extremely weak way to promote its legalization. They are in a completely different league. If only one could be legal and a world vote was held as to which, I am 100% confident that marijuana would lose by a wide margin. To me the idea of replacing alcohol with pot is akin to the suggestion that bread can be replaced by sushi.
bby_70 said “The economy would be even worse…no money exchange plus more stoners than ever NOT looking for work.”
This is a very ignorant view. First of all, I can grow tomatoes in my garden, but I still buy most of them from a supermarket. Just because you can grow it doesn’t mean you will when you can just run down to the liquor store. You also get to select from a variety or strains when purchasing from a store, but growing multiple varieties at home becomes more difficult. Sure, some people will grow it on their own, but that doesn’t mean that a market with 15 million people will suddenly disappear.
You also assume that marijuana users are lazy and don’t work. That’s equivalent to claiming that all alcohol users are lazy boozers who clutter up the gutters with their half lifeless bodies. Marijuana users come from all walks of life and include the past 3 presidents, doctors, lawyers, scientists, etc. Even the most decorated US Olympic athlete uses marijuana – surely, you’re not suggesting Michael Phelps is lazy!
J said: “Addiction is not something that you can marginalize simply because your changing the category. Marijuana addiction is just as ‘Bad’ as being Alcoholic.”
Fine, marijuana addiction is bad. But keeping it illegal doesn’t cure addiction. You’re confusing a health issue with a legal issue. Overeating and lack of exercise carries health risks too. But that doesn’t mean that eating at your local fast food joint and then sitting on the couch for 8 hours is illegal.
If people want to kill themselves, let them! With alcohol, they’re much more likely to hurt someone else. So, while I agree that addiction is bad, it is not an argument for maintaining prohibition!
a system that is not based on punitive justice will eventually lead to a multiplicity of laws and then tyranny why in the world would you give up rights and not wrongs……read the communist manifesto and the philosophy behind facism and you will find a underlying principle…..necessity is the mantra of tyrants and the creed of slaves decriminalize it and prosecute crimes that infringe on ones rights afforded by the constitution giving up ones rights for the good of all will eventually lead to what we have and if you think being able to go and buy beer at a store equates to freedom and liberty then may your chains set lightly upon you while you bow to kiss the hands that feed you
I agree with the comments posted by Dee. I have been smoking “pot” for ALL of my adult life. I have a Bachelors of Science Degree in Chemistry and a Masters Degree in Chemistry. I have studied classical piano all my life and continue to do so every day. I am retired now from a 20 year career as a Research Scientist for a major multi-national pharmaceutical company. I am quite capable of sprinting 50-yards on the beach in 8 seconds. I am heavily involved in the local Martial Arts community and can go three, 5 minute rounds of mixed martial arts and it’s like taking a walk in the park. I am sick to death of hearing that pot is detrimental to ones health. I usually hear this from a bunch of fat, uneducated, religious freaks who can’t walk up a flight of stairs and couldn’t begin to tell you how to even average 5 different numbers. By the way I also spend a few hours per day with my head stuck in a Linear Algebra textbook. Also a few hours a day with my head stuck in Einstein’s Special and General Theory of relativity. Whenever I hear about the “dangers of pot” I look around the room and see who is making these statements. 99% of the time I am in better physical shape and better educated than those making the statements against pot. By the way I did 6 months in the county jail in my early 20′s for having pot in my house. I can walk into many states in this country and easily obtain a bottle of whiskey and a shotgun and go out and get drunk and kill somebody, but I cannot buy a joint. I don’t know about any body else but that sounds a bit strange to me. I have seen with my own eyes the harm that alcohol does to people and I have never seen the smoking of pot lead to any harm whatsoever. Legalize it or ban it AND the booze And the easy access to firearms and while your at it you may as well get rid of coffee to. I know A WHOLE LOT of people who are addicted to that nonsense. This “double standard” is ridiculous.
Let’s look at the reality of this argument… it’s all about the money. If the govt could figure out how to control something you can grow in your back yard so they could cash in, they’d be promoting its use as a herbal remedy. How can anyone put marijuana in the same level of danger as alcohol? Answer this question honestly, if you had to make a life and death choice, who do you have drive your children somewhere for 10 miles or so, someone drunk or someone that smoked a joint? Too much industry built around the distillation & fermentation process – when it comes to the money, it will win over health, death, family, church, God because, after all, this IS America, built on a foundation of the almight buck…. Buck You!
You tell ‘em Doc!
All heath issues and victimless crime arguments aside, prohibition makes things worse. It was ten times easier to get marijuana in high school (Colorado) than alcohol. It was pretty hard to liquor. We got it but there wasn’t 20 different people I could go to everyday. The government makes it profitable for people to sell it. Enough said. I am tired of paying to make marijuana easy for kids to get. We waste billions on enforecment and lose 100 billion to foriegn drug dealers every year. BUT the money and health doesn’t matter. Prohibition keeps marijuana in schools. Make the penalty stiffer for contributing. Pot cost as much per ounce as gold. Get pot out of schools.
It is time. The state of our affairs nationwide would benefit with the change in the law. As said before me I need not repeat. It is a stupid war. The war on Cannabis. G-d would not create a substance for abuse that grows as a weed. She would not have created something that would feed thousands and create a product that would replace quickly the thousands of trees that are being cut to supply paper when hemp would do. Check out hemp. It could save many nations of children from starving. Keep the faith! Check out the King of Hemp!
In Northern California!
Although I’m supportive of a move to legalization, has there been much examination of how we might move from the current illegal and criminally controlled distribution to the legal and commercially controlled one? In countries where smoking tobacco is legal, but heavily taxed, there is a large criminal distribution (smuggling) to avoid tax. I presume those operating the current distribution have a somewhat vested interest to resist change, or to a minimum resist taxation. I can see the current way it works, and can imagine a possible legal way. But I don’t see how we can transition from one to the other. It’s pretty important to have this figured out if you don’t want to simply turn murderous thugs into CEOs.
I find it very difficult to find quality marijuana, and as a result have been forced to smoke horrible material that is damaging my lungs. Legalization would allow people to benefit in this manner as well.
Have to wonder if it makes more sense to swap tobacco and pot, infrastructure for infrastructure.
People who cannot understand that legalizing marijuana is like dealing with the lesser of two evils, and are against it, i have to laugh, let them make alcohol illegal, and see what kind of fuss the alcohol lovers, and people and companies who profit from alcohol would say or do.
lets get real, most people want to be law abiding citizens,
i know i do, but if i have to risk using marijuana for my health and sanity, i will. the alcohol mentality, and state of drunkeness, where people forget what they are doing and saying, while drunk, and sometimes black out, or just use the drinking as a general excuse, i was drinking, is discusting. parents allowing there highschoolers to go to beer drinking parties, and even drink in the house young as a social behavior, is far worse then a marijuana toke.
i totally agree with previous people who have voiced their opinions and wrote about how we are wasting peoples lives who are good people in jail, and wasting a tremendos amount of taxpayers money on lawyers judges, jails, ppaperwork, even if it wasn’t taxed, we could save so much money, AND MAYBE USE IT FOR HEALTH CARE DUh!!!
Humans like to get high on one thing or another-always have and always will. No government has ever eradicated that basic human drive. Pot is always going to be there-being consumed by those that appreciate it and making non-pot people react with laws, etc.
Pot is illegal but pretty easy to attain. It always has been throughout my life-in every state where I have lived. The War on Drugs has only been a gravy train for those working on that government trough. For the rest of us, the WoD has cost a ton of money, created a new industry around incarceration, a new industry around drug testing, and kept a culture war brewing much to the detriment of bigger issues. Do people really think that if pot were legalized and regulated everyone would be stoned and society would collapse?
Everyone does realize that even if is legalized, that like alcohol, you will only be able to have a small amount in your system while you are driving. The amount will be decided based on the same reasoning that .08 is limit for alcohol.
It’s my decision wether or not injest anything – alcohol, marijuana, cocaine, whatever.
IF my use of any of the substances causes me to act in a manner harmful to others, MY use of that substance obviously needs to be restricted.
Just as drinking and driving is dangerous, and drunks msut be slapped and eventually have their licenses removed, so to we should deal with the abuse of any substance.
Making something illegal to fill police coffers and make jobs is the current practice, and it is highly offensive.
Besides the fact that weed is proven to be the least harmful drug of all, and even reported to have many curative and healing properties.
Cops need to focus on murders, robberies, real crimes. PArents and government need to educate on the effects of every available substance, and the consequences of using those substances.
Then each person, upon reaching adulthood could make an intelligent, informed decision.
The legalization of prostition in Amsterdam, and quality sex education in mainland europe has prevented many more teen pregnancies than any abstinence program under the Americans ever did.
It’s time we gave people more freedoms to do as they please with their bodies, while cracking down on the real crimes of murder, assault, wife abuse, and so on.
“Your joking right? Your arguing for the lesser of two evils. But, your purposefully avoiding the core issue at stake. Addiction is not something that you can marginalize simply because your changing the category. Marijuana addiction is just as ‘Bad’ as being Alcoholic.”
You are ill informed. Marijuana is Not addictive. Fact. Look it up if you don’t believe me.
I think the anecdotal evidence can be summed up in a couple of sentences: Everyone has seen at least one violent drunk. Who ever heard of a violent pothead?
Personally, I don’t use marijuana as I find that a very boring way to spend time. I have trouble finding time for all the fun things I want to do.
Hey J, I have not smoked pot in almost two months. Didn’t go through horrible withdrawals and didn’t find myself unable to live. However, the depression that I have had since a child from being forced to live in a society that values money over human life, that came back. You talk about addiction being the worse problem.. try living without money. Money is a piece of paper, one that will get parents to ignore their children and how they are progressing in life. Money will bring about wars, and fund both sides. Money will cause a person to look the other way when people are dying. I have seen people live without religion, but have never seen a person give up money for it.. except those who are homeless and have the police called on them because they are too close to the things that cost them money. So try this, go after the most evil and pervasive thing we have in society, money.
legalize it legalize it legalize it now. what a bunch of gutless cowards our leaders are, that among other things. i’m so tired of being ruled by the stupidest of us. america the land of the brave, what a joke, the land of the free another bad joke. the land of corporatists and that’s who all the freedom was designed for. but as our leaders are cowards they will respond to massive emails and letters and phone calls demanding legalization of the beautiful weed and while they’re at it legalize hemp.
i’d pay cash money for a fed tax…..and happy to do it. down here in Texas, we can grow the perfumiest.! i’d pay cash money to be able to grow it legally, instead of being a guerilla. you see, it’s really humanizing to grow a garden.
J, it is not a sign of social decay. With all due respect, that’s your ignorance speaking. I and many others I know are all productive and responsible members of society and we enjoy smoking pot. We have jobs, families, social commitments that we honor, and so on. Get the facts first and have the courage to acknowledge them; otherwise, you’re just making uninformed statements based on ignorance.
Besides aspects of harm… the more expensive alcohol is, (UK taxes are usury… ) the more financially attractive substitutes become. That is economics 101 people.
The UK situation is ridiculous. We have teenage & adult drinking out of control creating a huge load on our Health System, Emergency Services and Police. We have a classification system that is about sentencing guidelines not harm – honestly, Ecstacy as Class A ? its about as harmful as a few glasses of champagne, and you wont start any fights.
The asymmetry of tax and (rightly) health warnings on a pack of cigarettes, contrasted with the lack of either on alternatives – is state neglect.
As as for treating us as adults ? Why should we not enjoy a smoke, at home, with friends, or for pain relief ?
Perhaps we would be rather happy to pay some sensible level of tax in recompense for safe supply, and to fund government health education and treatment for those who can not cope – we do for other drugs. Asymmetry again.
Human Beings (and other mammals) have been taking mind altering substances for millenia. Biggest drug in the world ? caffeine, its estimated 80% of humanity takes it everyday. Wikipedia “in cases of extreme overdose, death can result”.
.. ah bless them …
http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2009/j un/26/drugs-deck-of-cards-politicians
It’s great to see this many great comments. Yes Marijuana is healthier choice than alcohol. It’s called a gateway drug, only because its sold among the hard drugs by your local drug dealer. If it’s legalized, we will save kids from buying hard drugs too. Most drug dealers makes most of their money from Marijuana. If it’s legalized, drug dealing business will dissapear. I hope the momentum builds and we can break this taboo once in for all.
Morality laws are so strange, except that there’s always a money link that benefits the current power-holders. For example, NY police used to spend a lot of time and energy going after the “numbers racket.” Since then, the very same idea has been legalized and turned into the daily lottery in practically every state. Make sense of that if you can.
On second, thought, don’t bother. It’s impossible to make any sense of such ridiculous crusade. Instead, follow the money trail and you will eventually come to understand the game.
I’ve been smoking pot since I was 12years old. I am now 40. I have tried to quit for years but fall back over and over. I know many of people in the same boat. It is very addictive if it is abused, much in the same way alcohol is.
And what are the long term effects on cognitive ability? And the weight gain from all those munchies? Add to that anxiety and paranoia, loss of sexual desire, and, and, uh….what was I talking about again..? Oh ya, short term memory problems.
I believe it should not be criminal, but it is far from safe.
When we need a lecture on the gains and losses of smoking marijuana, we’ll be sure to look you up, Bill. However, this has absolutely nothing to do with one’s legal right to do so. What is relevant is the absurdity (as described above, did you skim over those points, Bill?) of a more harmful in every fashion legal drug vs. a vastly less harmful illegal drug.
And Bob, while I can sympathize with your struggles, those sound like personal issues, not issues with the drug.
There are plenty of marijuana users that can use it without it dominating their lives. I personally have excellent cognitive function, much moreso that the vast majority of my co-workers, so I suppose I’m ok in that department. I can also feel the pangs of hunger and suppress them, or drink water. You know, these are things that discipline can teach you, and you will be richer for it.
“Cui bono?” To whose benefit? The “driven to drink…” metaphor is perhaps literal. Distracting the anti-drug legions from the alcohol industry with a continuing (and very likely futile)challenge to marijuana legitimacy keeps the quite a bit of heat off of that threatened $130 billion of the alcohol industry’s annual take. First things first: save a few tens of thousands of lives per year; deal with one of the top public health problems in history: alcohol. The 51,000 deaths per year doesn’t begin to tell the story of the impact on America.