Comments on: The death of the “punchbowl” metaphor http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2009/10/29/the-death-of-the-punchbowl-metaphor/ Thu, 21 Jul 2016 07:57:19 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=4.2.5 By: Benny Acosta http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2009/10/29/the-death-of-the-punchbowl-metaphor/#comment-26781 Fri, 06 Nov 2009 16:35:59 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/?p=5595#comment-26781 Many of our leaders (especially on the right), like to extol the virtues of living a moral life based on Christian values. But these same people also moved to bail out the banks and put their constituents on the hook for generations to come.

So what would Jesus REALLY do?

(95) Jesus said, “If you have money, do not lend it at interest, but give it to one from whom you will not get it back.”

(Gospel of Thomas) Thomas O. Lambdin translation.

We are not animals. And we should not be content to live as such.

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By: Sadasivan http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2009/10/29/the-death-of-the-punchbowl-metaphor/#comment-26664 Wed, 04 Nov 2009 12:00:20 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/?p=5595#comment-26664 But the real cause,namely,Derivatives Trading,in which at least $600 trillion,is circulating,continues….Without banning this,no solution can be found.

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By: paul rosa http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2009/10/29/the-death-of-the-punchbowl-metaphor/#comment-26560 Mon, 02 Nov 2009 18:36:22 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/?p=5595#comment-26560 I always enjoy your articles. And I think what you are saying is that the US cannot maintain that just because it “paid too much for that muffler” the economy that sold that muffler is therefor wealthy.

Assets in this country – especially commercial buildings- are notoriously impermanent. They are generally designed to last the life of their mortgages and than to be resold and rebuilt or demolished to be replaced by another impermanent structure. Those structures are also depreciated more quickly than the term of the mortgage and that usually means they are sold before the mortgage is ever completely amortized. Other than the site – which itself is prone to the loss of value if the location is no longer good for business, there is nothing but junk sitting on that site. and it is an expense to dispose of those millions of tons of rubbish – almost nothing of which has any value except for some recycled materials (another fluctuating value).

In the modern economy we cannot total our asset value the way people historically assessed their wealth. They would total up the value of everything in the building includng the fixtures, the furniture, the linens and even the bed pans. Today most of the contents have little value once they have left the store. That also applies to jewelry. A computer system has a useful life of a few years before it is fit only for the dump. You can’t even give them away. The manufacturers would love a world where everyone was obligated to replace them every year. Consumer goods are really only excuses to spend money and their value is almost nonexistant as second hand – every garage sale proves that point.

Tangible assets, especially commercial property and apartment houses, are only as valuable as their ability to generate an income.

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By: Casper http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2009/10/29/the-death-of-the-punchbowl-metaphor/#comment-26551 Mon, 02 Nov 2009 13:22:06 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/?p=5595#comment-26551 Good article, it links and explains difficult concepts.

Brian, Federal Reserves are simply ‘hubs’ to other countries, like private sector banks, they have transactional banking, assets and liabilities, treasuries, insurance/guarantees and Special/Project Finance.

Also, for the Rest of the World’s sake, I am very happy with somebody financing an advertising campaign, and the latest outcome, surely there’s some Register of Interests ? It also creates jobs and transfers knowledge and skills to the public sector.

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By: M http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2009/10/29/the-death-of-the-punchbowl-metaphor/#comment-26527 Mon, 02 Nov 2009 02:35:31 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/?p=5595#comment-26527 I forgot the source, but the saying was that money made out of money is meaningless for the society at large. While certainly not true, I think that for the keeper, money not spent is value lost.
Also, by far, the main contributing factor for elevating an economy is the technical progress.
Now, redirect all idling money towards research and development and so on, and theoretically we will get the best efficient dynamic cycle, i.e. non-chaos path growth. Is as simple as that, but with caveats.
We expect returns, don’t we? When, over short or long term? While waiting, we still want to leave our lives longer, healthier, and happier than past generations.
We are forced to make decisions. Even employing Pareto principality, there is nothing saying about optimal distribution of welfare. The only way to answer to these horrific choices is by debating ideologies. Only from there inwards, we can trickle down to basics.
As for inflation, quite simplistic, outspending on projects with no return by some aggregate capital conglomerates, mass infusion of fiat monies (printing) for saving all structures, very slow diffusion into neuronal economic network on demand side, inability to rise fast enough the supply side due to non-vendible inventories, and bingo, too much fiat monies in the system, and voile, patriotic requests for increasing savings, which will only conclude more inefficient use of resources. This is because the distribution of the newly printed money was skewed towards the same structures that misused the bulk of liquid capital in the first place. In fact, over time, all taxpayers pay back what was wasted by the few. The positive, however, is that some moderate inflation over no more than two to three years in a row is supposed to incense supply. What we are covering now is the surge in oil prices, two wars with no economic gains, and over consumption based on unwarranted borrowed money.
Are we guilty collectively? I suppose so. We are guilty of neglecting our own interests and bowing to the special interests of a few. Democracy is giving us the tools, but we should learn to use them. Economics is far from being a branch of science. It is art, and it ain’t pretty.

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By: James Reginald Harris, Jr http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2009/10/29/the-death-of-the-punchbowl-metaphor/#comment-26448 Sat, 31 Oct 2009 04:32:56 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/?p=5595#comment-26448 Thanks M.

I heard Ron Paul debating with Michael Moore, two opposing agendas by two people who really love the people in their country with differing ideas about solutions. I think Michael does better with identifying social problems then he does with proposing ideas and Ron Paul has certainly identified the move to Corporatism.

We have a bad scenario and when we look at US leadership I like to look 50 years out. Certainly China does not have the technological, financial and engineering know how that we have the benefit of as a matured developed nation. However, our growing Corporatism has taken that advantage and degraded the individualist infrastructure that was traditionally rewarded in America. By absorbing the rewards of the system in order to artificially maintain performance by low interest rates which favor Corporatism over Entrepreneurial Capitalism we set in place a process where the demand for innovation is greater in the developing country. So much so that their banking policy includes strengthing the issues we as Americans assume we will always maintain our world leadership in Science and Engineering.

It was not to long ago that Sputnik was first in space.

As the results of the LHC at CERN start to come public in the next several years, we will see a rather profound hole in our Scientific knowledge. This will also create opportunities, business opportunities as we re-engineer computing and most everything we know about massive computation.

Thomas Edison would be treated poorly in today’s United States and if that does not change – our global leadership in Engineering, Science and Technology are in no way guaranteed.

While we are keeping our eye on the seconds, the ticks, so to say, our competition has their eye on the months and years. We see in China over 1 billion capable human beings with a massive ability and a growing economic force. 50 years from now, we might well be second or third place, which to all American’s is an uncomfortable thought, one we do not like to hear.

However, Corporatism, which is largely what has created our financial crisis is not the core efficiency that has made America great, it in itself a derivative product that has a tendancy to spontaneous decline.

As for Mike and Ron, I think they are both right, we need to give our country back to our people and no longer impede the progress of individuals by a corporatist philosophy that degrades US Leadership in the World.

As by all evidence, it has.

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By: Peter H http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2009/10/29/the-death-of-the-punchbowl-metaphor/#comment-26403 Fri, 30 Oct 2009 17:49:17 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/?p=5595#comment-26403 It’s the politicians who need to have their punchbowl taken away. A good dose of clean living would do them good.

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By: Sergio da Silva http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2009/10/29/the-death-of-the-punchbowl-metaphor/#comment-26368 Fri, 30 Oct 2009 02:56:24 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/?p=5595#comment-26368 I just hope it is not a scenario where first it´s higher interest rates to keep attracting the capital inflows the U.S. economy needs to sustain itself and then higher interest rates to contain hyperinflation from all the money being pumped into the economy right now.

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By: Tom Cook http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2009/10/29/the-death-of-the-punchbowl-metaphor/#comment-26367 Fri, 30 Oct 2009 02:47:12 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/?p=5595#comment-26367 American businesses war against the American Worker has been quite a success. Only one unintended casualty, the golden goose (the American Consumer). Now your goose is cooked.

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By: GOD http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2009/10/29/the-death-of-the-punchbowl-metaphor/#comment-26366 Fri, 30 Oct 2009 02:47:00 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/?p=5595#comment-26366 “But punchbowl thinking dates from a time when firstly the Fed was presumed to have a degree of control over events we now know is not true”…

James Saft…you either didn’t do your homework, or more likely you know exactly what’s going on and are PAID to con people away from the TRUTH: good job sir!

LOVE LIGHT TRUTH HONOR FREEDOM vs fear(hate) darkness lies hypocrisy control

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