Opinion

The Great Debate

America’s season of rage and fear

By Bernd Debusmann
April 1, 2010

Freedom in America will soon be a fading memory. American exceptionalism died on March 23, 2010. On that day, the United States started becoming just like any other country. Worse still, like a West European country. Socialism in the land of the free and the home of the brave!

In a nutshell, that’s how many conservatives see the health reform bill President Barack Obama signed into law on March 23, after a year of acrimonious debate. The language has been shrill and the superheated political temperature is reflected by worried headlines such as “The heat is on. We may get burned” (Wall Street Journal) or “Putting out the flames” (Washington Post).

Verbal venom is not restricted to radio talk shows or Internet rants that draw parallels between Obama and Hitler or Stalin. John Boehner, the leader of the Republican party in the House of Representatives, described the reform as Armageddon and a Republican congresswoman, Michelle Bachmann, voiced fears on national television for her country’s future because of the president’s “anti-American views.”

Today’s end-of-freedom arguments sound very much like the ideas set out in a 1961 speech by the late Ronald Reagan, then an actor working as a corporate spokesman, now venerated as a secular saint by many Republicans. “One of the traditional methods of imposing statism or socialism on a people,” he said, “has been by way of medicine.”

Reagan was raising the alarm against an early version of what became Medicare, the government-run health care programme for people over 65 which now has 45 million beneficiaries, most of whom rate it more highly than private health insurance, according to surveys. If the program were passed, Reagan warned, “behind it will come other federal programmes that will invade every area of freedom as we have known it in this country. Until one day… we will awake to find that we have socialism.”

Medicare was passed in 1965. Dark warnings notwithstanding, the United States remained the engine of global capitalism. It is also the world’s only advanced industrial country without universal health care (except for the elderly), with more than 40 million uninsured for whom illness can mean financial ruin or early death.

In the hubbub, which is growing rather than subsiding, it’s worth noting that people arguing from opposite ends are coming to the same conclusion — health care reform is not the underlying reason for the anger vented against the government.

CHANGING AMERICA

Example from the right, from radio host Monica Crowley: “Health care ‘reform’ was never about health care. It was about expanding government into every part of your life as an excuse to confiscate more and more of your private property, strip you of your constitutionally guaranteed freedoms and remake America into a two-bit, second-rate, debt-laden European socialist backwater.”

Example from the left, from New York Times columnist Frank Rich: “The… health care debate is not the main source of this anger and never has been. It’s merely a handy excuse. The real source of the over-the-top rage of 2010 is the same kind of national existential reordering that roiled American in 1964.”

That’s when the Civil Rights Bill ended segregation and black Americans were no longer required to sit in the back of the bus, drink from separate water fountains, or go to separate schools. It was, said Rich,”an inexorable and immutable change in the very identity of America, not just its governance”.

Another inexorable and immutable change has been underway for decades: demographics. Because of immigration, both legal and illegal, and the higher birth rate of immigrants, white Americans are projected to be a minority in the United States by 2042. According to the 2000 census (the 2010 count is under way now), white Americans have shrunk to a minority in 52 of the 100 biggest cities, including Los Angeles and Washington.

That demographic shift was paralleled by a rise in extremist groups on the right. Their number rose by more than 50 percent from 2000, according to the Southern Poverty Law Center, an organization that tracks radicals. Most groups on the lunatic fringe are small in number and big on conspiracy theories but then, how many people does it take to blow up a building?

Late in March, FBI agents arrested nine members of a far-right group in raids in Michigan, Indiana and Ohio to scotch what a government indictment called a plot to kill a police officer and then bomb his funeral. In the words of Attorney General Eric Holder, they stand accused of conspiring to “levy war against the United States.”

The appeal of such groups is limited but some of their anti-government rhetoric is echoed at rallies of the fast-growing Tea Party movement. Named after the 1773 act of anti-British sabotage in Boston that hastened the American revolution, it is a diffuse, predominantly white grassroots movement whose followers range from fiscal conservatives and libertarians to people hoisting posters depicting Obama as Hitler.

The star speaker at the movement’s first convention, in February, was Sarah Palin, the darling of the Republican right. The movement hopes to draw a million followers to a protest rally in Washington on April 15, the day Americans have to file tax returns.

Outlook for the political temperature: high and rising.

Comments
76 comments so far | RSS Comments RSS

There, you said it, the US is run by actors and pharmacists.

“The… health care debate is not the main source of this anger and never has been. It’s merely a handy excuse. ”

A first world nation needs a health care debate as an excuse for a source of anger ? Grow up America, the source of your anger is guilt and consumption that has caught up with you.

By the same token, the problem with being PC is that it is PC. When the quality of your music goes, your culture goes.

Posted by Ghandiolfini | Report as abusive
 

As usual, all the goodness comes from the left and all the nastiness comes from the right. If you want to bring up the ’60s, then what about the Weathermen or the SDS, or the Black Panthers? Radical, murderous lefties all but apparently it’s only the right which produces such groups. Typical media prejudice. And hands off Ronald Reagan. The last Democrat of his stature was FDR, and that was some time ago, wasn’t it?

Posted by Gotthardbahn | Report as abusive
 

Tell you what, Gotthardbahn–

When:

A progressive walks into a church and opens fire on the congregation because they’re all a bunch of conservatives and he wants to kill as many right-wingers as he can…

A progressive walks into another church and shoots a doctor in the head…

A progressive shoots three police officers who come to his door because he fears the president is going to take his guns away…

A progressive walks into the Holocaust Museum and shoots a guard because he hates Jews and believes it’s time to start a race war…

A progressive walks into the Pentagon and opens fire because he believes the government is plotting against its citizens…

A pack of gun-loving progressives forms a plot to kill law-enforcement officers and start a revolution…

Progressives plan an armed march on Washington to celebrate the Oklahoma City bombing…

…THEN you can march out your false equivalency between today’s radical violence on the right vs a few groups of “lefties” from the 1960′s.

Posted by Yellow105 | Report as abusive
 

Hands off Ronnie! I think not. Ronnie was a racist! He gave his first post-convention speech after being officially chosen as the Republican nominee for President of the United States at the Neshoba County Fair on August 3, 1980. The speech was noted because he used the phrase “states’ rights” at a place just a few miles from a town associated with the 1964 murders of civil rights workers. The racist stated: “I believe in states’ rights … I believe we have distorted the balance of our government today by giving powers that were never intended to be given in the Constitution to that federal establishment.” (hmmm…remind you of anything said recently?) He went on to promise to “restore to states and local governments the power that properly belongs to them”.[2] This speech was definitely understood by many Southern white voters as a tacit appeal to and a continuation of Richard (DICK) Nixon’s Southern Strategy.

Yes, all nastiness comes from the right. Always has, always will. That’s just the sort of people they are. They really can’t help it. The SDS, Weathermen, and Black Panthers were fighting for survival against the racist repression of the white majority.

Posted by jborrow | Report as abusive
 

“American exceptionalism” … that is where much of the problem stems. The people are brought up on the line that there is something utterly unique about the US. What was unique about it was the collection of mostly men in the period of 1770 to 1800 who came up with the initial justification for opposing the British roots from whence they came. The Constitution and the Declaration of Independence and the Bill of Rights being the very enlightened base for all that followed.

But, the history of the country has often been that of many Americans trying to pick this bit or that bit of the foundational documents and discarding the rest.

Except for those foundational documents, the U.S. is a country like any other. With people in it both good and bad. It has no direct line to a supreme being passing down pearls of wisdom for the country’s edification. It has beautiful natural areas. It has portions of its history to be proud of, and many that it doesn’t want to look at too closely.

That idea of “exceptionalism” really harms the country in the long run. Leading to the idea that what pertains to other countries does not apply in the case of the U.S. In that way it means that the U.S. always makes its way harder than necessary as it often doesn’t learn from the mistakes of other countries. “How can the French experience in Vietnam in 1945 – 1954 apply to the U.S.? It doesn’t … for we are the U.S.!” Hence the debacle in Vietnam for the U.S. from 1960 to 1973. “What does the British experience in Baghdad from 1917 to 1934 mean to the U.S.? It doesn’t, for the U.S. is the U.S.!” Hence the draining and bloody ongoing tangle of the U.S. with Iraq from 2003 to now.

The same with health care. Nothing to be learned from other countries who have had such systems for fifty years and more.

In many ways the American habit of considering itself so “exceptional” lead it to be in that same small group of countries who isolate themselves from others, and ultimately cause many problems for the world: Israel, Saudi Arabia, China … and the U.S. Countries who consider themselves “above”, “different” from other peoples and other countries due mainly to religious, historical or racial conditions held to be “exceptional” in their cases.

Perhaps we can all advance when such countries really come to see themselves as intrinsically and unavoidably part of the rest of the world.

Posted by WBGriffin | Report as abusive
 

jborrow:

If you have read the 10th Amendment in that thing called the Constitution. That would be what Reagan was referring to and NOT racism. He was also supporting what the founding fathers believed in, states rights and a limited federal government. Remember, it was the GOP who supported and advocated civil rights movements in the 60′s.

Yellow 105:

Were do you get even half of those stories? If I can sit here and research all the left wing classless events, you would not even be able to compare it to the right-wingers.

Ghandiolfini:

Guilt and consumption? From what? Did you know that 70% of the US economy is consumer consumption? The PEOPLE control the economy. Why would we want power to be allocated anywhere else? Government? No…move to Cuba, North Korea, or China if you desire such things.

Posted by Surfrider0701 | Report as abusive
 

Hey Yellow105 -

The Pentagon shooter was a progressive, John Bedell was a registered democrat that often littered the internet with his anti-Bush comments. He also claimed that the Bush administration had orchestrated the 9/11 attacks.

Posted by Hickok | Report as abusive
 

Too many labels, too much fear, too much ignorance…

You want to start the blame game? Try this one on for size…

I believe part of this whole problem started when school districts were allowed to let physical education coaches teach American History and Civics classes instead of requiring “dedicated” teachers for those areas of study. Started in the late ’60′s I think…

Most of those same coaches had no interest, and inspired no interest, in the students who attended those classes to explore and really, really LEARN about how our form of government works. It was more important to beat the other local schools’ football and basketball teams…

The result, a now large group of adults who, for the most part couldn’t list the three major parts of our Federal government let alone explain how a bill gets to be enacted into law.

Heck, I think most of them don’t even understand what true “socialism” is.

Politics is now what they read or see in the media with the left or right “slant” by whatever media source they favor…

Posted by The_Traveler | Report as abusive
 

I do think we wast a lot of time on talking about how bad government is rather than getting it fixed. The tea party group could have a place in government without appealing to radical groups. If they stood for fair government without lobby control they would get all the votes they need. The GOP is dead but not buried yet. Sorry, but when you get sick someone has to stand the cost.

Posted by fred5407 | Report as abusive
 

I do think we waste a lot of time on talking about how bad government is rather than getting it fixed. The tea party group could have a place in government without appealing to radical groups. If they stood for fair government without lobby control they would get all the votes they need. The GOP is dead but not buried yet. Sorry, but when you get sick someone has to stand the cost.

Posted by fred5407 | Report as abusive
 

But who does express this rage? It is minority of society, as a rule they are not educated well, quite
ignorant, still captured by McCarthysm’mentality.
They use to behave by instinct …

Majority of people voted for policy President Obama
and widely support him.

Posted by Madam | Report as abusive
 

Maybe record Wall Street bonuses have something to do with it

Posted by Story_Burn | Report as abusive
 

Healthcare done, Jobs and Financial regulation next, then education and immigration. American could be a good place, if these were accomplished

Posted by MarkRB | Report as abusive
 

Reagan was a racist. Don’t pretend he wasn’t. He was a very good liar too, but America loves him because he made Americans feel good about themselves, with stories about great moments and people from American history. Even though if most people truly knew their history they would know what he said was not always accurate and at time totally opposite. Not saying there are no special moments or inspiring people in American history, there are plenty. Just like every other country. There are plenty of moments of American history that are not talked about in class rooms, the same amount as in every other country. So the US isn’t exceptional, or at least not exceptionally better, but it is different.

Also, don’t get so defensive about the fact that Reagan was a racist; FDR was a racist and a sexiest. But America loves him too cause he got us out of the Depression and gave women the right to vote. (Yah, that second part is ironic.)

Reality is that most of this, pretty idiotic and miss informed, outrage stems from the fact that our president’s skin color doesn’t match the color of the house he lives in.

And no, not all good comes from the left and all bad from the right. There is simply a lot more bad coming out of the right currently. When the Republicans become a political party again, and not just a bunch of Christian fundamentalist drawing support from scaring the crap out of uninformed people, they might start producing some good again. They can start by finding new people to represent them, meaning not a former Miss Alaska.

“Sarah Palin, the darling of the Republican right.”

- Knocked up teenager daughter
- Messy Divorce
- Abuse of power
- Probably didn’t get a good grade in History and Civics class.

Yah, she’s a real good chose to represent the religious conservatives. Oh by the way, I got no personal problem with the first two… but I think the people she represents (and is the leader of) have some issues with them.

Posted by Davidfd | Report as abusive
 

Whenever I see the Tea Party folks, I feel like buying the stocks of drug companies. Tea party folks will definitely be buying a lot of antidepressants. Each party needs to disassociate itself from the extremist.The future of this country does not lie with the far left nor the far right. Tolerate other races, other religions, other cultures, other sexual orientations and learn some Spanish – it’s the future.

Posted by Tical | Report as abusive
 

“Hands off Ronnie! I think not. Ronnie was a racist! He gave his first post-convention speech after being officially chosen as the Republican nominee for President of the United States at the Neshoba County Fair on August 3, 1980. The speech was noted because he used the phrase “states’ rights” at a place just a few miles from a town associated with the 1964 murders of civil rights workers. ”

Wow. Continue to assume that support for State’s Rights makes you racists. Also continue to assume that ALL nasty-ness comes from one side of the isle. Also assume that the left never has a bad idea. Always assume your ideas are the best and everyone else is wrong. I thought US lefties were supposed to be more open-minded.

I find it very ignorant to make such assumptions. Your politics are dangerous. Giving the State a voice to help mold the power of the Federal government is an important tool in keeping a balance of power for our country (yet allow for a supreme council of judges to oversee such decisions). Not giving the state an option would be about as good as a federal governemnt without a legislative branch. It’s an integral part of how our country makes laws and allows us the freedoms we have as a people. Go freshen up on your political science, Sir…

This comes from a Liberal, white Mississippian that has attended this assumed racists county fair my whole life. There are plenty of us that attend and there were plenty of us there when Regan gave that speech. And there were plenty of liberal Democrats that voted for the guy…

Posted by bmweeks | Report as abusive
 

it seems to me that s l o w l y a lot of people get a better idea why the cuban people have not risen up against their oppressor. it is an insidious ,bit by bit eliminations of :choice, freedom , rights, and means of defense that leaves the population at the mercy of few.
“brothers , there is still time”

Posted by chrisvb | Report as abusive
 

Is the author even a US citizen? I think all of these matters should be decided at the ballot box. This issue was not and I think that is what upsets people most. People see our representative ideals turned upside down when they watch their representatives vote against the will of their constituents. It is easier to do the will of the people at the state level since there are fewer people for the state representative to do the will of. I see this more and more as a states rights issue with the federal government trying to impose an issue on a public that had no say in the issue. They should have put this to a vote and let the voice of the people decide the outcome.

Posted by Bdy2010 | Report as abusive
 

And before someone jumps on me regarding the number of representatives in congress being closely equal to state reps let me clarify. State reps spend plenty or time at home and are closer to understanding the will of the people. They meet and legislate closer to the people. Once a representative goes to DC they have to deal with federal issues as well as state issues. They also have to deal with issue on the foreign stage. They are a bit more distracted than their state counterparts.

Posted by Bdy2010 | Report as abusive
 

Is anyone remembering that I will never see a dime of all my contributions to social security? That the funds run out just about the time that I would be eligble? So, what are the options? Raise taxes? Push off the age at which people are able to collect? Aren’t all the predicted problems with social security actually coming to fruition?

OK., then on to medicare. That’s not a cancerous growth of social security? Aren’t there supposed to be huge problems with that, somewhere…? No? It’s great?

None so blind as those who will not see.
None so deaf as those who refuse to listen.
None so mute as those who hold their tongues.

Posted by Jambow | Report as abusive
 

WBGriffin’s post about American Exceptionalism really nailed it on the head.

Also, say what you will about healthcare reform: it was good, bad, waste of money, cost effective, whatever. The fact that the United States of America, the preeminent world power, has over 40 million out of ~300 million people without health insurance, is completely appalling. The fact that there are people who want to stand in the way of extending healthcare to 40 million people absolutely blows my mind. Make it out to be about state’s rights. Make it out to be about freedom of choice, and quality of care. At the end of the day, you are standing against 40 million people receiving healthcare. It’s disgusting.

Posted by Adam_S | Report as abusive
 

The fact that hispanics are burgeoning v-v whites buttresses the argument that the US is becoming more and more socialist. The hispanics get more gov’t assistance v-v the whites.

Posted by bluemen | Report as abusive
 

The Howard government in Australia, which was a conservative government mind you, had universal health care and other ‘socialist’ programmes yet still managed to get budget surpluses. The world’s greatest economy (supposedly) can barely support itself, whereas a country of 22 million not only managed to stay afloat but grew, and with the ‘socialist’ Rudd government too.

The current deficit problem in the US is because of a shoddy tax system which sees those on lower incomes pay more as a percentage than those on higher incomes, and excessive spending by successive regimes on wars that never really needed to happen, not because of Obama.

Posted by andrec27 | Report as abusive
 

The right wingers are appalling, most of them do not even bother to check the facts before they speak or write. They seem to just spout and/or pen misinformation, disinformation and false information. They must just get their information direct from the right wing propaganda machine and then just repeat what they have heard or read as if it is correct and accurate. Maybe they will start checking for facts.

Posted by Dalton | Report as abusive
 

Bdy2010
The platform of the Democratic party in 2008 promised voters health reform. How is following through on their election promises voting against the will of their constituents?
Are you suggesting that legistators follow the most recent polls on each issue? In that case why do we have a representative democracy? Why not dispense with the legistators and make goverment decisions using polls?

Posted by bumticker | Report as abusive
 

Bdy2010: What difference does it make whether the author is a U.S. citizen or not? Do you think non-Americans are not qualified to write about the country, or should be banned from doing so?

Posted by Komment | Report as abusive
 

The american attitude will bite them in the rear end sooner than later, their so called ” freedom” actually deprives people of having a decent life. And while not even being able to care for its people (40 million uninsured) it still cannot support itself and runs deficits through the roof years after year. The US like any power in the past it is slowly rotting away from the inside because of greed and bad governance.

Posted by DutchChinaman | Report as abusive
 

If the Tea Baggers don’t like it maybe they should consider defecting to another country…oh wait, no one else in this world wants to be polluted by their rhetoric. Or maybe they should secede from the liberal states and form their own union…oh wait, they’re too dependent on the economies of these liberal states to financially support themselves.

Here’s an idea Tea Bags: Educate yourself on what’s ACTUALLY happening in this country. Stop blindly ingesting the opinion you here from the right wing “news’” talking heads. It’s not even news!! It’s an OPINION. And you know what they say about opinions?? They’re like an a**hole – everyone has one and most of them stink!

And to the left – please get with it and stand up for what you believe in and fight the good fight! It’s now or never!

Posted by whodunwut | Report as abusive
 

The old Arguement about social programs goes back a long way. During the Viet Nam War social programs were cut in order to pay for war.

Seems like we always have anough money to pay for war, but never enough to make sure people at home do not suffer needlessly. Maybe it is because large corporations can make more on war materials than they can on taking care of people.

Then you get the Rush, Glen, and Sarah types who stand up and proclaim the most rediculous things they can to get their moment of fame and raise cash from a mob that does not really know where they stand, but want to join the mad as hell – won’t take it anymore crowd.

From what I am hearing from All these screaming idiots, they do not really have a grasp of what the Health Care Bill is really about, and want some one to blame for every thing they perceive wrong with the country.

I guess it is too much to ask them to settle down. Research their ideology through Independent sources rather than the usual supplied rants. There might be a lot less screaming and blood pressure can go back down every where.

Posted by Robert76 | Report as abusive
 

Ironically, when Bush Jr. was in office, carrying out warrantless wiretaps (very KGB), there were no cries from the right of government intrusion into citizen’s lives. And of course, during that time, we invaded Iraq for no reason what so ever.

If the radical right continues to galvinize and the US is actually dumb enough to elect Sarah Palin as President some day, warrantless wire taps will be the least of our worries at home. And, the rest of the world will need to prepare for the worst. When ignorant, hate filled people take power in a rich, technologically advanced nation, bad bad things follow.

Posted by mcoleman | Report as abusive
 

The far right are loosing it. Name calling, racist comments, ridiculus accustaions of communism. I wonder who is the brains here. Could it be these people are being duped?

Posted by mindcat | Report as abusive
 

What whiners! To all you right wing naysayers, groveling about healthcare reform, spending and whatever else. Your country is on the right track; no thanks to the right. Remember that the massive bailout spending was initiated by the Bush administration. The ongoing efforts are for the better of the nation, and ought not be for special interest groups and individuals. What a selfish bunch.

Posted by Ignoramus | Report as abusive
 

Reagan may have lied through his teeth at the Iran-Contra hearings, about Big Government, his role in World War Two and just about everything else in his worthless life but the old bodger really let the cat out of the bag with that one about chronic right-wing addiction to prescription drugs.

The fact is, America is too doped up on bad pharmaceuticals with the result that mainstream political discourse these days more closely resembles the bellowing of wounded animals than anything else.

Posted by HBC | Report as abusive
 

Why do all these TEA people seem so fat and out of shape? they need to quit eating so much of that mind controlling junk food, get some exercise, maybe they wouldnt have so much time to be controlled by FOXNEWs.What kind of tea is that they are drinking anyway?

Posted by getinshape | Report as abusive
 

Taking snippets from the declaration or the constitution to justify the right wing agenda, does not make rightwingers an authority on freedom. These documents drafted by the forefathers are grossly misinterpreted and misrepresented through the sheer ignorance and selfishness of the present American society. Jefferson’s Republicanism has little commonality with GOP tenets, which are infused in the minds of the naive, gullible and ignorant. It appears what most Obama critics perceive as freedom, comes just short of Anarchy.

Posted by Ignoramus | Report as abusive
 

Tea party and GOP appear rather anal. Get the Tea party in army fatigue to fight for their own freedom, instead of sitting on their laurels while excercising their freedom to whine off the backs of disadvantaged Americans sacrificing their lives for these losers.

Posted by Ignoramus | Report as abusive
 

Ok guys, let me just say something here.

The Federal Government was meticulously designed.

They have the House, which flows with the moods and tides of popular opinion.

They have the Senate, which is the tried and true men and women, those who have proven themselves skilled politicians, who don’t rush to a decision.

They have the President, who makes decisions on the spot, because you can’t discuss everything. Bush had it right, the job of the President is to be the “Decider” the “Do-er” (You wonder if that isn’t how someone explained his new job to him.)

Now, these roles were all created in a time before polls.
Before cars, before jets, before tv. Before the internet.

Politicians are infinitely more visible than before, and have way more data coming back at them.

They have aids following twitters for useful info.

So, what we’re seeing right now is a shift in how things operate. These are the holdovers, the dinosaurs, the Old Guard. They’ve failed to adjust to the times, which requires quick, bold decisions, and visibility to show your confidence.

Americans are SICKENED by the Senate, on both sides of the line.

The Senate is the biggest current threat to US ideals, but we’ll be shaking things up soon enough.

I hope just 2 crazy ass Tea Party Senators get in there.

Cause there’s a couple of crazy Dems in there already.

Hopefully we’ll have some more Browns and Moderates.

Posted by Jarlent | Report as abusive
 

TeaBaaggers -
The segment of our population that is white, which will no longer be a majority in 2012.
Teabaggers are merely using health care reform as a platform for venting fear, anger and frustration, of being overtaken by Hispanics, African Americans and Asians . It is Americas party of choice for white trash. Rush Limbaugh, and Glenn Beck are their demagogues

Posted by michaelmoore | Report as abusive
 

Freedom is a right but also a responsability and if you don’t take care of your responsabilities that is for sure you will get seized it. Unless Americans get concious about freedom and all the resposabilities such as avoiding that people die in emergency rooms because of the lack of affordable insurances or bankers collecting big bonuses far from the performance of the company, that for sure is the way to a fading freedom.

Posted by AlexB | Report as abusive
 

Surfrider0701, the US can be so glad that it resisted British overtures, you would have been a 2nd African colony, if not. Go the Mayflower. Cometh the Chococino Party.

Let’s forget about the guilt stemming from eradicting Indigenous People, it must also have a long term effect if you keep bombing any that moves as it suits you.

That set aside, who consumes the other 30% ? Your nation comprises +- 5% of the World population, but consumes +-25% of the energy. Your credit consumption has also caught up with you. My clients are not paying me, so I am very cross. And so is my bank.

Let go of the Healthcare thing, it is consuming and making you sick and ill at the same time.

Story_Burn, the Wall Street bonuses is a fraction of the GDP.

And here we are, typing away while we are supposed to bail out the churches and hunt Cadbury-Kraft eggs.

Posted by Ghandiolfini | Report as abusive
 

Oddly enough, the SPLC has been claiming that the number of “hate groups” in America has been increasing about 6% a year, since 2000, (Even though there is no legal definition of “hate group”). (http://wp.me/pCLYZ-K)

And yet, for 2009, the first full year of the Obama Administration, the SPLC only reports an increase of 6 “hate groups,” or about six-tenths of one percent, the LOWEST alleged increase in decades, according to the SPLC’s own numbers.

So which IS it? Have the number of “hate groups” increased dramatically since President Obama took office, as the SPLC claims, or have they increased by the LOWEST number in decades, as the SPLC claims?

You can’t have it both ways… unless, of course, you’re just trying to scare the donors.

Equally disturbing is the fact that NOT ONE of the SPLC’s top ten, highest paid executives is a minority. (http://wp.me/pCLYZ-3r)

The last remaining “Whites Only” sign in Montgomery hangs in the boardroom of the SPLC. Some “experts.”

Posted by rkeefe57 | Report as abusive
 

Dear all,
seen from here it’s pretty clear.
As usual, people treat politics like football: there’s one and only one team to cheer for, no matter what.
To those against this president and his reforms: you have a job, you pay taxes, you have an insurance and maybe now you are well. But as you should know, the globalization is running fast, china’s growing, low cost countries in two words “cost less”. What if tomorrow you’d lose your job? And then get ill? Cannot it be one of the plots of God?
I can’t understand how people can be against these kind of reforms. It’s just losing a bit to get more just if…! And is to that just if that people should think more.

Posted by ewham | Report as abusive
 

Any fear of social democracy is rooted in a lack of understanding. I see many fellow Americans brushing it in the same stroke as communism, which it certainly is not! It is healthy for government systems to evolve. A pure democracy left free of regulation and some sharing of wealth eventually leads to a concentration of wealth and a polarization of ideals. Look at what a shift in that direction during the Bush years did to our country. Too much freedom saw us turn inwards developing a better than thou population filled with greed and corruption.

I believe the changes occurring in the U.S. are VERY positive and will make our people happier and our democracy stronger by involving more of our population in the wealth we create.

Posted by waveonshore | Report as abusive
 

politics in washington is like the isreali/palistinian conflict. Both sides attack the other, claiming it’s justified because of what happened yesterday. The only way to move forward is to agree to forget yesterday, but no one in power is able to do that.

Each party has demonized the other to the point that finding common ground is a betrayal. Obama talks a good talk, but when the Republicans don’t accept his offer, he attacks them as visciously as anybody.

Posted by drewbie | Report as abusive
 

FEAR, FEAR AND MORE FEAR; What have we to fear BUT fear itself.

In 2007 this country was angry, angry at the way our lives, economy and freedom was and is dominated by corporate greed. Have some soon forgotten. The extensive white-collar crime taking place behind the large private doors of monopolized cooperation’s? Who are replacing our individual freedoms for cooperate freedoms. With thousands of lobbyists in Washington DC, buying off congress, buying off taxes, buying off legislation while individuals have no voice of money to lobby for our freedoms.

We are to learn from the past to ensure that we do not repeat it. WHAT HAVE WE LEARNED?

It appears nothing other then the comfortable fear we seem to be drawn toward. There is a take over looming here in America, but it is not government, it is corporations with the ability to buy off just about anything, including China. China has now turned on US cooperation’s’ and created their own economic monster with US dollars shrinking and Chinas Yuan increasing, yet not enough for corporations to return home, they are finding what it is like to be controlled economically. The only difference between China and the US, is that US corporations are controlled somewhat by our government (the people, through regulation and reform), we are a capitalistic, democracy. China, NOT! China is a capitalistic, communist, where government does what it can for power and economic control. Guess what, China has got it, with control over their Yuan values, American based corporations, China imports, developing their own global lending bank, taking over global resource control and buying up America quietly, one business at a time, one apartment building at a time, one investment at a time while our standard of living continues to drop. I THINK we are looking at the WRONG GOVERNMENT takeover here in the US, it is not our government it is CHINA.

Beware, do your own research, watch, look, listen, you will see it is a different government and different economy.

Posted by Pro-reform | Report as abusive
 

Is anyone remembering that I will never see a dime of all my contributions to social security? That the funds run out just about the time that I would be eligble? So, what are the options? Raise taxes? Push off the age at which people are able to collect? Aren’t all the predicted problems with social security actually coming to fruition?

OK., then on to medicare. That’s not a cancerous growth of social security? Aren’t there supposed to be huge problems with that, somewhere…? No? It’s great?
————————————————

Will Social Security be there for me?

The baby boomers add about 200,000 extra people to the program for about a 12 year period. Noticeable but nothing formidable to it. The warnings are overblown.
But…..if Americans don’t turn their lifestyles around, nothing is going to solve the health problem.

Posted by ken419 | Report as abusive
 

Obama talks a good talk, but when the Republicans don’t accept his offer, he attacks them as visciously as anybody
—————————————-
Not a team of horses but a tug-of-war.
Two points directly opposite each other on a circle or sphere. More formally, two points are diametrically opposed if they are on opposite ends of a diameter.

Posted by ken419 | Report as abusive
 

I believe the changes occurring in the U.S. are VERY positive and will make our people happier and our democracy stronger by involving more of our population in the wealth we create.
————————————-
I agree. We need to work on our empathy.

Posted by ken419 | Report as abusive
 

You think the right acts like a spoiled child whose just hard their candy taken away…wait until the lunatic right fringe doesn’t have the government to bail their asses out of the next financial collapse that their own policies created. The right won’t have the government to support them and they’ll prey on any innocent civilian. The radical right wing are zombies.

Posted by csodak | Report as abusive
 

They have the Senate, which is the tried and true men and women, those who have proven themselves skilled politicians, who don’t rush to a decision.
——————————————————
The founders of this nation had a huge problem getting states to join. Smaller states didn’t want to join out of fear they would trampled again. Larger states felt they would be responsible and footing the bills.
So the founders pleaded and compromised much of their power away. The Senate gives immense power to small populations. It is not Democratic but it is a stablizing force, especially with the filibuster. Enumerated powers only in a 200 year old document don’t work. Amendments are impossible with today’s lack of concensus. So we are bound to the past with a document we can’t fully understand. So we use it to get our way.

Posted by ken419 | Report as abusive
 

Hey there “Old-Yeller 105″ Why don’t you look up the word PROGRESSIVE, then, stop referring to yourself as one. I believe the term that you’re looking for is “DEVIANT”.

Posted by PetesWs6 | Report as abusive
 

“Dear Conservative Americans,

The years have not been kind to you. I grew up in a profoundly Republican home, so I can remember when you wore a very different face than the one we see now. You’ve lost me and you’ve lost most of America. Because I believe having responsible choices is important to democracy, I’d like to give you some advice and an invitation.

First, the invitation: Come back to us.

Now the advice. You’re going to have to come up with a platform that isn’t built on a foundation of cowardice: fear of people with colors, religions, cultures and sex lives that differ from your own; fear of reform in banking, health care, energy; fantasy fears of America being transformed into an Islamic nation, into social/commun/fasc-ism, into a disarmed populace put in internment camps; and more. But you have work to do even before you take on that task.

Your party — the GOP — and the conservative end of the American political spectrum have become irresponsible and irrational. Worse, it’s tolerating, promoting and celebrating prejudice and hatred. Let me provide some examples — by no means an exhaustive list — of where the Right as gotten itself stuck in a swamp of hypocrisy, hyperbole, historical inaccuracy and hatred.

If you’re going to regain your stature as a party of rational, responsible people, you’ll have to start by draining this swamp.”

Posted by Jonesy | Report as abusive
 

In regards to the Tea Party people, there are posts making generalizations of these fellow Americans as being racist, uneducated, fat, right wing extremists, white trash, whiners, out of touch with the facts, etc, etc.

I’m an independent, common sense type person. I did attend a Tea Party gathering in my area out of curiosity some time ago. There are always a few knuckleheads in every group no matter what. By far, the majority of folks attending these are just average Americans of every age/race/gender and economic status.

I’m not defending Tea Partiers. They have every right to voice their opinions and have their events. If their opinions are different than yours, that’s ok. Instead of making these generalizations about your fellow Americans, go start your own movement.

Posted by DVM | Report as abusive
 

No one in their right mind is against health care. Adams was for (classical) common education so that our population was informed and able to logically participate in government and make choices to effectively govern and ensure both the rights of the citizen and the strength of the economy and government. The issues are not health care. Congress has health care, so does the V.A., so do the elderly with medicare, and those with children under 18 (medicaid). Wow be to the States who administer them! And then there are the lapses in coverage which should be addressed, those too old, but not old enough, those with expensive conditions, uncovered. All this before the healthcare bill. Adam’s noted GREED as our potential downfall, before Madoff or corporate bonuses way out of line or highly paid lobbyist or revolving door politicians. The bill recently passed, and the great amount of public outcry is about fiscal neglect and about a breech of trust. Medical bills are out of sight, my recent experience is $37k and counting for a 6 hour outpatient procedure (including recovery) with no insurance, with two more required or be physically disabled for the rest of my life. It has spelled financial ruin. But, I am not for Obama’s bill because it doesn’t address fundamental problems. It mandates more care without paying for the care we have and aren’t paying for. I am one of those in the cracks of health care but I also have a son who will be paying through the nose for the rest of his life, in a country way out of control, not focusing on jobs and job creation within a global economy, and i don’t want that for him or any young American citizen. This past week, social security became upside down. Our deficit is increasing so rapidly, now 14 TRILLION allowed? Check out what it was in 2003! What’s the deal with that, paygo not approved? Life is not Disneyland. Our schools are expensive and terrible, our justice system is not about justice but about winning, and our politicians thwart the will of the people and pass legislation, ramming it through when even children with pre-existing conditions aren’t covered for four yrs. while everybody is mandated to pay? and our current system is underfunded at best. Franklin used pretty and unsupported notes to float this country in the Revolution, but this is not that, it is gross neglect for our future and our wellbeing.

Posted by gadfly1 | Report as abusive
 

Dear Jonesy,

Being conservative does not mean being a Republican. Being conservative does not mean one is filled with hatred, prejudice, greed and intolerance. Like many others, you’ve chosen to label all conservative Americans as such so here’s a generalization for you. Generally speaking, you are a nut job.

Posted by DVM | Report as abusive
 

What I find hilarious in the the right’s venting of their spleen against the current administration, is their total amnesia regarding the massive deficit built up under G.W. and the incontestable fact that his administration was the one sitting like a rabbit caught in the headlights as Wall Street took everyone off the cliff. If team Obama had not pumped so much taxpayers money into bailouts and so called `socialist`work schemes, we would be in the midst of a severe depression and like everyone else, those voting Republican would have lost all their savings in the collapse of the banking and stock market systems.
For any society to exist as a society there must be an central government, unfortunately too many people in America want no government.

Posted by tomjeff | Report as abusive
 

DVM –
The problem is that the conservative movement attracts people with those very same issues: hatred, prejudice, greed, and intolerance (I would also add fear to that list). There are simply too many people in the conservative movement with those vices in their hearts to ignore. It is the current rally cry. I think that conservatives have truly forgotten what actually – let me repeat – actually made this country. Compromise.

Posted by bobSmith | Report as abusive
 

DVM,
Your judgements are based on what data?

Posted by Thats_It | Report as abusive
 

The most vicious hateful speech, protests, and assassinations in the United States have overwhelmingly come from the left. I’ve been to several Tea Party rallies. What I see is mostly educated people outraged at the path we’re on. A path to 1984. You’ve got it all wrong about this protest.

Posted by vincent1966 | Report as abusive
 

What Spin would you like today? Rhetoric is of course more powerful than data – even solid scientific data. You know why?

Because the majority of readers don’t care – to them, winning the rhetorical war makes it truth. In fact, there is a whole world of popular/common beliefs that are scientifically invalid.

But who cares?

People like to decide quickly and easily and nothing better than a “quickie” newsbyte to give their fix and help them feel they are conscientious citizens.

DVM – the majority of conscientious Americans who think for themselves and make up their own minds – mainly those who aggregate toward the center of the political spectrum – opposed Obamacare. It is not a politically conservative movement, though the right seems to be more interested in original intent to limit the powers of government.

Posted by MD_Grabe | Report as abusive
 

I think this article has cut straight to the heart of the matter. I’m conservative and I don’t hate anyone, I’m not stealing from anyone, and I’m not intolerant of others or their perspectives. I also don’t think it’s right that people in this country don’t have access to healthcare. (although I think it’s unlikely that this bill will really fix that problem)

This country is founded on a simple and truly wonderful idea, that Amercians should be free to pursue their dreams. I think many of the people posting on this board have forgotten this. I think our government has absoulutely forgotten this. I see things written here that imply we should be embarrassed or ashamed for what American is. Our own president talks to the rest of the world as if we’re wrong and evil. Do you know how many people have given their lives for the simple idea that is America? To create a safe place so all you folks on this board can convince yourself that anyone with a perspective other than yours is evil and wrong. It’s sickening to me, and that’s what I’ve had enough of.

In my opinon, what’s really happening in America is a fight about staying true to the ideals of our founding fathers. America is about active citizenship. There are many in this country that feel they know better than the citizens of this country. However, this country is governed by a set of checks and balances that prevent this from happening. The president of our country has clearly decided those rules don’t apply to him. He has apparently rationalized that the percieved importance of the cause outweighs these checks and balances. That however is not how our government is intented to work. Our president is supposed to actively support and abide by those rules, not ‘get around’ them when they don’t meet his needs.

That’s what all this is really about. It’s not about being a conservative, liberal, republican, or democrat. It’s about being an American. An active citizen in the world’s greatest democracy. Our government has lost touch with these ideals. I for one no longer intent sit idle and watch our current set of leaders destroy what so many have died to create… and neither should you.

Posted by SickofBamaWorld | Report as abusive
 

unfortunatelly, the far right has become a symbol of the downfall of america’s education system. this is not a real national phenomenon. why else is it that their following us mainly in “bible belt” of america. where racist feelings have always existed and irrational behavior have always been a part of the norm there. these people are incapable of being able to compete in a global economy and keeping up with an ever chaning world. they would only be satisfied with america if we went back to segregation, dropping bombs in far off countries and they were getting $30 a hour to press a button in some manufacturing plant while their company provided free health coverage for them and everyone in thier trailer park.

Posted by sidrock23 | Report as abusive
 

tomjeff: Massive deficit? Compared to what? Curious, how do you feel O’s spending compares to W’s? Try multi-fold more than W’s.

Posted by MD_Grabe | Report as abusive
 

sidrod23 – At least they know how to write – they capitalize their sentences. Common – is there any example of stereotyping and prejudice better than your accusations?

Posted by MD_Grabe | Report as abusive
 

So much stereotyping and conservative thinking (that is, people unable to think outside their political world view) — that liberals as well as conservatives suffer from. Ad nauseam!

Medicare isn’t necessarily a bad product, though my parents might disagree (mom just passed unexpectedly because Medicare required more pronounced symptomatology before it would pay for the tests she needed).

The problem isn’t the product or the idea. The problem is in the implementation of it and the government controlling of it. Private insurance companies can be greedy, but they also can be regulated – by government or by consumers through tort relief; but it will be very hard to sue the federal government. Moreover, so much power over our healthcare choices (liberties) will be granted to non-elected bureaucrats – including a tax (mandating by law w/ penalty to engage in commerce) simply for being alive!

What makes them more noble and magnanimous than business executives?

Getting back to Medicare, why is the Medicare program a problem? Medicare has been the largest, single most contributing factor to why healthcare prices have risen.

Did you get this? Medicare HAS INCREASE HEALTHCARE PRICES SUBSTANTIALLY!

Why? Because of two reasons: 1) Medicare prices paid are below what costs providers expend in Medicare patient care, and 2) law requires Medicare to be the sole, single payer. It is as if the intent of Medicare is to force providers to loose money.

Results? Billions at least in losses – actual losses – not lost profits. One major institution looses $600M annually due to Medicare – yet they expend the least per patient than most other places.

Effects? Losses have to be paid by someone, and so they are covered by those who pay full price. If average cost of care per category patient is $1,000, and Medicare pays $500, the remaining $500 has to be covered by higher prices charged non-Medicare patients.

Therefore, it is not just insurance companies or provider profiteering who are at fault with our “broken” healthcare system. It is also the federal government! But was there any discussion of such? No!

Has anyone wondered why there has been no government document outlining a comprehensive explanation of what is broken and how the solution will fix what is broken? I’m not talking about the political rhetoric or Obamacare advertisement campaign (hey what about truth in advertisement?)

Obamacare is one step toward single payer – total government takeover of the healthcare industry (by Obama’s own words – yes by his own words caught on video). This is of no surprise to Big Labor because single payer is actually a goal of Big Labor and their proponents. In fact, the videos captured were in Big Labor settings.

Looking at what Medicare could do the industry if it was the sole payer, do we really want the government to be a sole, single payer of healthcare?

The problem? You, Reuters; You AP! The American people do NOT know the whole truth because YOU won’t report it! Solid empirical science has proven most news sources are politically biased to the left almost as strongly as a spectrometer can prove the clear daytime sky is roughly blue.

There certainly are people against Obamacare simply due to their political world view. They may not even give a rip about others.

However, so many more are against it because they looked at the bill and looked at the relevant information news houses refuses to report – never in the headlines. No wonder the Dems want to regulate internet commentary.

You want to debate Obamacare? Are you willing to lay all the cards on the table and have a solid argument? Do you think the issue is simply for or against? Or do you think there is a whole world of solutions somewhere in between – where perhaps a thousand-fold better solution might be found?

Or do you simply want the government to take over everything? Are they more trustworthy than business? So somehow, the government bureaucrats that get hired are super human and are more efficient, more magnanimous, and not inclined to temptation (whether power or greed)?

Can you conclude (for yourself) independent of a political ideology or platform; independent of a bandwagon? Or must you identify with one group or another? Maybe the winning one is your group – whoever they may be.

The way I look at it is single payer will create two socioeconomic classes of patients: 1) those who can afford to pay out of pocket for whatever healthcare they want whenever they want it, and 2) the rest of us (who will receive care according to some bureaucratic government board at a time the depressed industry has availability).

Posted by MD_Grabe | Report as abusive
 

Here’s some info: Medicare though at the abstract a good idea (IMO) has these problems: 1) levels of symptomatology required to pay for needed tests or care is higher than often exists; 2) costs for Medicare patient care can only be paid by Medicare – Medicare forces on providers as the single payer; 3) Medicare pays below actual costs of patient care; and 4) we cannot sue the government for problems caused by Medicare.

Billions in losses caused by Medicare are compensated by much higher full-payer healthcare prices. It has become a major problem for every healthcare provider, and as the baby boomers retire, all providers are planning for the worse.

Thus, government-run, single-payer Medicare has been a significant factor in skyrocketing healthcare prices and resulting higher insurance premiums and inaccessibility to lower socioeconomic classes.

Do we want costs in our healthcare system to be entirely paid by a similar single-payer program?

Posted by MD_Grabe | Report as abusive
 

This “Founding Fathers” nonsense is really quite funny. Most of our “Founding Fathers” had slaves! And had no problem “bedding their female slaves”, after all what could their “slave husbands” or the Founding Father’s wives do about it. THEY HAD NO RIGHTS! We won’t talk about why the phrase “rule of thumb” came into being (the settler husbands used to beat their wives to death. Hence the law that you could not use a stick or branch bigger around than your thumb to beat your wife). Oh, and this little thing about “Manifest Destiny”, that about says it all. It was our Founding Fathers God given right to “do as they pleased” and force their idea of Democracy onto those that they happen to run across. But the “closer” was the fact that they were all “Land Owners” or, if you will, Property Owners. That property consisted of land, slaves and, of course, their wives. The idea that motivates most “conservatives” is “THIS IS MINE AND I’LL DO WHAT I WANT WITH IT”. Ergo, a longing for the Good Old Days. Everything else is smoke and mirrors, the founding fathers merely wanted the freedom to do with their property, whatever they wished.

It’s worth thinking about and a little researching.

Posted by MACV | Report as abusive
 

Sidrod23,
You’re a dumb A. To characterize an entire group of people by region and accuse them of racism is ridiculous. Have you ever been to the South? Have you ever done anything of note for that matter? Please, this is not about racism although its funny how quick people are to jump to racism because it gets people excited.

This is about one thing: Rights versus Opportunity.

America used to be about opportunity but now its about rights & entitlements and people getting what they deserve.

If a company can make billions or millions doing something well people get upset, no jealous, and the politicians jump on board. Remember the crusade against Exxon?! What happened to that, oh gas prices went down and it just fadded away!!

People, healthcare companies making money is not a bad thing. Every post I read about someone complaining that someone makes too much money is insane. That is what America is about, opportunity. Why do people feel the need to punish success?

The government is getting too big and spending with reckless abandon (please stop mentioning GWB – he is not the president and certainly not the cause of a real estate bubble and Obama is not entirely to blame either.

There is simply too much to write in such a little box but Obama is destroying the country and he is doing it by making you think he is protection you from evil people making money. Stop chanting “Change” and “Yes we can” and watch what he is DOING.

Healthcare and others making money provide jobs, innovation; and not least the taxes to pay your entitlements. It is competition that keeps prices low. Not government intervention and taxes. Why don’t you people get this?!

The problem with America is this belief that you all deserve something. You deserve O2 (oxygen for those of you that dropped out of high school) and that is it. You have a system, a country, in front of you that gives you every opportunity to succeed if you would just take it. But no, people think they deserve something. WHY? Where did this come from? Where did accountability go? Drop out of high school and expect someone to take care of you. Obama preaches “tough love” but what has he done except give “stimulus funds” 80% which just went to help state budgets and bank bailouts. But no, really, he is concerned about main street. SHOW ME

Posted by Andymc7 | Report as abusive
 

In 1973 I visited a small hospital 50 miles south of Cleveland, Ohio and in the waiting room were Amish whom I rarely saw before. I commented to the nurse about them and she said, “They only come here when their pain or cure cannot be taken care of by their home treatments.” Many people with hospitalization do that. Are emergency rooms visits required by laws to treat anyone that comes in? With the increasing numbers of poor in our country, USA, who is going to pay for the ER care providers; Capitalists or Socialists?

Posted by bigmikey | Report as abusive
 

If everybody could just cut down on the length of their contributions, and spread it a bit, we might even make the main page…

QED: Quad Est Demonstrandum

Posted by Ghandiolfini | Report as abusive
 

Andrec27:

Um, not sure how to put this but, you’re disgustingly wrong. The tax code has a stepped up tax rate which has higher income’s paying as much as 38% of their income straight to the Federal government. Those with lower income pay 10-15% and after tax credits and ‘making work pay credits’ most people end up with no taxes at all. Yes MOST.

Mint.com estimated that in 2009, 46.9% of Americans will have zero federal income. This data was from IRS.gov, taxfoundation.org and taxpolicycetner.org information. You are so wrong its laughable and scary. See for yourself:

http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/f iles/images/user5/MINT-TAXES-R3.png

This is part of why people are fearful & angry because 46.9% of Americans have incentive to vote the taxes from others to themselves. Point, case, fact, truth, cry and weep libs.

Posted by Andymc7 | Report as abusive
 

This whole debate, and the climate in the country, brings to mind a poem by the great Irishman William Butler Yeats. It was written a year after the end of World War I and includes these lines:

“Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.”

Will the center hold?

Posted by Komment | Report as abusive
 

I think the conservatives are merely boomers who are having flashbacks from some bad stuff they smoked back in the sixties. The young folks will not get involved because they are to busy with their face books and video games to really know what is happening. The press is fueling the fire. The government really doesn’t give a crap and is business as usual. As far as you conservatives are concerned, put away your protest signs. Take some Viagra had have another summer of love.

Posted by scrypton | Report as abusive
 

Thanks for that Komment, I always wondered where Chinua Achebe got the title of his book.

I am not sure how the aggregate taxes in the US works, and without going into too much detail, my effective tax rate:

Salary/fees: 30%
VAT: 14%
Fuel: 1%
Sin taxes: 1%
Financial instruments, e.g. an EFT: 1%
Property, let’s say: 1%
Others, undefined: 2%

Total: 50%

In other words, I give away 50% of every $ I earn, and I have no social security – I have to pay my own medical and pension. Am I a communist, socialist or capitalist ?
More like a ‘ComSocCap’.

To get back to the topic at hand, I am enraged and live in fear of the authorities, and that is not even the intelligence guys, because, they are intelligent as they work for the state and I pay their salaries, i.e. the tax multiplier effect, which takes me beyond 50%.

Posted by Ghandiolfini | Report as abusive
 

Dear Bernd Debusman,

You are correct. We are already Socialist and have been for some time. I am Republican and Conservative and your writing boviously has hit a nerve with many Americans.

I also find it hard to believe that a militia against the federal govt. would kill a policeman and then try to take out his mourners. It does sound like a clever story for a govt. agency to gain popular support to go arrest and break up these guys. Think about it what would they gain for their cause by killing police famillies?

We are no longer FREE. Just ask the citizens about Hate Crimes…why is what you do against Gays (or any group) worse than what you do against me? Special classes have more freedoms and protection than others.

Don’t even get me started about taxes…you think you own something? Since WWII income taxes were placed on property temporarily and have never left. Just don’t pay them on your house, car, trailer anything you think you “own”. The Government will sieze it and sell it for back taxes.

America if left on the current road will be gone inside 5 to 10 years. All the attackers are within…in fact Obama is leading those down the path Russia and other large Socialist/Communists have gone. Militia really don’t have to do anything but wait for the chaos to breakout.

I will keep praying that sanity will someday come to Washington. It can only happen if the silent majority step up and get involved.

Posted by bmize | Report as abusive
 

Fear and loathing in Las Vegas, Gonzo.

Smear and looting in Washington, Anon

Posted by Ghandiolfini | Report as abusive
 

Post Your Comment

We welcome comments that advance the story through relevant opinion, anecdotes, links and data. If you see a comment that you believe is irrelevant or inappropriate, you can flag it to our editors by using the report abuse links. Views expressed in the comments do not represent those of Reuters. For more information on our comment policy, see http://blogs.reuters.com/fulldisclosure/2010/09/27/toward-a-more-thoughtful-conversation-on-stories/
  •