In praise of Latin American immigrants
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The United States owes Latin American immigrants a debt of gratitude. And Latin American immigrants owe a debt of gratitude to lawmakers in Arizona. How so?
Thanks largely to immigration from Latin America (both legal and illegal) and the higher birth rates of Latin immigrants, the population of the U.S. has kept growing, a demographic trend that sets it apart from the rest of the industrialized world, where numbers are shrinking. That threatens economic growth and in the case of Russia (U.N. projections see a decline from 143 million now to 112 million by 2050) undermines Moscow’s claim to Great Power status.
A country’s population starts shrinking when fertility falls below the “replacement rate” of 2.1. births over the lifetime of a woman. For white American women, that rate is around 1.8 now. For Latin American immigrants, the rate is 2.8. According to the U.S. census bureau, nearly one in six people living in the U.S. are Hispanics. By 2050, they are projected to make up almost a third of the population.
That translates into the biggest minority group of consumers. Their spending is expected to exceed $1 trillion by next year despite the recession. A point worth noting but rarely mentioned in the often overheated debate about immigration: illegal immigrants in effect subsidize social security payments to Americans over 62.
This is because people working with false papers have their social security taxes withheld from wages but are not entitled to receive benefits. The sums involved are substantial — the Social Security administration has an “earnings suspense file” of payments under names that do not match social security numbers. The file has been growing by around $7 billion a year which goes to pay benefits to legal workers.
And the benefit to immigrants of the Arizona law?
“It may finally wake up the whole country to the consequences of the current approach to illegal immigration in which ever tougher border enforcement is seen as the only solution to the problem,” says Edward Alden of the Council on Foreign Relations, a New York-based think tank. “That approach is gravely flawed.”
So is the argument that the federal government has done so little to secure the U.S.-Mexican border that states need to take things into their own hands? The number of Border Patrol agents along the 2,000-mile frontier has doubled in the past five years, to 20,000. Arrests of border crossers have dropped 60 percent since 2000, evidence that tighter controls are discouraging illegal crossings (as does a shortage of jobs at a time of high U.S. unemployment).
A MESS THAT NEEDS FIXING
Under the law, the toughest of its kind in the country, state and local police are required to “determine the immigration status” of anyone “where reasonable suspicion exists that the person is an alien who is illegally present in the United States.” Failure to carry identification documents at all times would be grounds for arrest. Critics say “reasonable suspicion” opens the door to racial profiling.
Despite the acrimonious debate sparked by the Arizona law — which faces legal challenges and might never take effect — there is common ground on the issue between a good number of politicians on both sides of the aisle: the present system is a mess that needs fixing.
The last serious attempt to fix it was in 2006, when the U.S. Senate failed to agree on a bill that would have paved the way to citizenship for millions of illegal immigrants — the most widely used estimate is around 11 million, most of them Mexicans — and introduce a guest worker program to meet demand for unskilled and low-skilled workers.
At the time, the late Senator Edward Kennedy, the Democrats’ most vocal champion of immigration reform, asked its opponents what they were planning to do with the millions already in the country. “Send them back …? Develop a kind of Gestapo here to seek out these people that are in the shadows?” Critics of the Arizona bill think that prediction has come true.
Much of the immigration argument has glossed over the fact that for decades both the authorities and employers turned a blind eye to illegal immigration because the country has been deeply dependent on cheap labor — in effect one of America’s ways of competing with the low-paid workers of the Third World.
The link between demographics and economic growth has rarely featured in the discussion but this week former president Bill Clinton took it up and added a frank interpretation of the anti-immigrant anger reflected by a nationwide poll that showed 60 percent of voters nation-wide favoring Arizona-type laws.
The real reason for anti-immigrant sentiment, he said, was the fact that the economic downturn in the last few years disproportionally fell on white males without college degrees, such as factory workers. “But they’ll get more jobs if the economy grows. Their taxes will be lower if we’ve got more taxpayers. The pressures on Social Security … will be less if we have more people contributing to the system.
“So I don’t think there’s any alternative but for us to increase immigration,” he said, adding that bringing in more immigrants must be part of the overall strategy.
So far it is not.
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It’s good to see that there are some people that understand that immigrants do indeed contribute to the well being of the country. Perhaps further discussions will be more fair and well rounded than the typical “they’re stealing our jobs” rant.
This is one of the most educated and sensible articles I’ve read. The benefits of undocumented immigrants far outweigh the detriments.
It’s sad how the ignorant and uneducated are easy pray of the agitators.
Myths that immigrants don’t pay taxes and only come to the US to receive welfare benefits are rampant, and most people actually believe them.
Without taking compassion into account, immigrants are good for the country’s economy. Let me rephrase that; they are essential.
I agree, Benny. I’m tired of that rant as well, that and the “they’re stealing our social services” tirade. In New York City, where I live, these immigrants work extremely long hours in restaurants as kitchen staff, as busboys, and in many cases have taxes taken from their paychecks (they often use false ids to get the jobs, and the owners look the other way)and know fully that they will never see a return. It’s the price they pay for working here illegally, doing the work our citizens shy away from doing, and they accept this. I also want to add that in my experience, I have never known any of them to avail themselves of welfare or food stamps or any of these programs some people accuse them of pillaging. Go visit Jackson Heights or Corona and you will see communities of family-oriented, hard workers who save their money in order to actually build a better life here, or to help their families back home. They incur debt in the tens of thousands of dollars and risk their lives to get here via truly terrifying means. This is not the modus operandi of someone who’s looking to cruise along and live off the fat of our land, as many would accuse.
This was rather a non article. I read it and reread it and the very most I could get out of it was: Well, 1 in 6 Americans are Latino, and illegals with phony credentials probably pay more into social security than they get out. I assume this means you think illegal immigration is a good thing, but there’s so little actual opinion in this opinion piece, who could tell?
But allow me to interject here: We’re having the wrong debate. The whole “well, they spend money in our economy and do the jobs we don’t want to” argument is bogus. So do drug dealers and circus clowns. So what? From the point of view of a legal immigrant who came to this country through the long, expensive, and torturous process that is our so called “immigration system”, illegal immigrants are like the creeps who cut in front of you in a long line, and then wonder why everybody is screaming at them. My wife came here from China legally, why should these people get a free pass because they share a border? Until someone can answer that question for me, there is no debate at all, illegal is illegal.
What a bunch of BS.
Once again, the crazy Open-Border lobby tries to confuse the issue between illegal immigrants and legal immigrants.
The Arizona law is not about legal immigrants; it is not about Hispanics; it is about people breaking the law to come here illegally.
There is a legal way to come to the US. The US already allows more legal immigrants per year than any other country.
These people have knowingly and willing broken the law, for no other reason than personal gain. That is criminal! And I’m supposed to celebrate them? The world must have turned upside down!
I was brought up to play by the rules. Were my parents wrong? The new reality seems to be: act selfishly and illegally, and then make demands and act like a victim. Wow, just wow.
The Arizona law specifically prohibits racial profiling. The Arizona law specifically prohibits civil rights violations. Existing Federal law allows local law enforcement. No problem there.
Enforce existing law……and no amnesty!
10:51 am EDTI agree with the other posts. Slave labor is essential to the US economy. Illegal immigrants are vital. Nothing makes me happier than to see people living in abject poverty and working for less than slave labor wages. Especially on construction sights, where legal immigrants and citizens could make a living wage hanging sheet rock or laboring. No, no…it is much more beneficial to pay people $250 per week for 80 hours of work. They are never late to the job when they are living in their van in the parking lot. Yeah illegal immigration!
I have lived in northern California and New England, and in both places but especially in California, virtually all outdoor work is done by Latinos, many of whom are probably illegal. Crew bosses in both places have told me they simply cannot find Americans who want to do this kind of heavy outdoor work – tree removal, tree climbing, garden installation and maintenance, window/door installation etc. In this case, Latinos are not taking jobs from Americans. They are performing services Americans don’t want to do and working very hard at it. There is a serious need to address these issues.
I think that this is a nice article, but while the birthing abilities of the immigrant population is helpful to increasing the numbers of US population, it is draining the wallets of both legal immigrants and citizens of the US by making us pay for the hospital care, schooling, feeding, and etc. of these children.
Yes, the people working with false papers are not getting the benefits of their SS payments, and that $7B is a nice number to have lying around, but if you want to be fair about it, they should be getting those payments – they worked for it – and by using that $7B for other legal workers is part of the dysfunction of the system. If the current illegals are granted amnesty in a guest worker or straight-up amnesty program, they should then be deserving of the monies they have earned and paid to SS and that $7B gain of the moment should be paid back to them.
The problem with the “biggest minority group of consumers” and the attractive $1T number is that the majority of illegal immigrants are sending the monies they earn under the table back home. By the way they aren’t paying any taxes to SS on cash-under-the-table.
It’s not a myth that immigrants don’t pay taxes and only come to the US to receive benefits. You forgot the one keyword there to validate your argument, legal vs. illegal. Legal immigrants do pay taxes, they have SS numbers, and etc. — they are entitled to all the benefits of citizenship obtained the legal way. Illegal immigrants do not pay taxes (except some sales taxes to local government) because they do not have SS numbers.
By saying “benefits of undocumented immigrants far outweigh the detriments”, based upon the above opinion article, is that they are a great way to “meet demand for unskilled and low-skilled workers.” Does that make you feel warm and fuzzy inside? I would rather see the US’s unemployed citizens take up cooking or lawnmowing or whatnot at minimum wage vs. paying people here illegally below minimum wage because they can’t complain. Are unemployed citizens that lazy?
Think about it. Around 2009 or so, the US population exceeded 300,000,000 (300M). 7% unemployment (conservative number) is 24,000,000 (24M) people. With 11,000,000 (11M) illegals estimated in country that’s 2 unemployed US citizens for every 1 illegal immigrant employed under-the-table. That’s a problem.
Saying that “failure to carry identification documents at all times would be grounds for arrest” is also a falsehood. If you are here legally, you wouldn’t need to carry identification documents all the time. Just like me, a normal citizen, if I forget my wallet and get pulled over for a crime, would get questioned about my identity, possibly taken to jail even, fined, etc. I just wouldn’t be deported to my home country because this wonderful USA is my home country. That’s the difference in the law being discussed. Both legal and illegal can be stopped for crimes or “reasonable suspicions” and forced to present ID. Without ID, both sides face fines, arrest, harassment, etc. But the end result is the deportation of illegals vs. going back home for the legals.
And no, they will not be instantly shipping people across the line. If you’re stopped and after investigation have been determined to be here illegally, there would be a chance to notify your family – possibly because they are also illegal they may be deported with you.
Bill Clinton’s “The real reason for anti-immigrant sentiment, he said, was the fact that the economic downturn in the last few years disproportionally fell on white males without college degrees, such as factory workers” — I’m white and have a college degree and a job and I’m anti ILLEGAL immigrants. I know many black citizens who have been affected by the factory shut-downs too. They are also anti-ILLEGAL-immigrant. I know several mexican citizens who have been affected by the economy. They are also anti-ILLEGAL-immigrant.
Democrats need to stop trying to inflame situations by throwing a racially charged statement in everyone’s face. That only distracts from the “argument” and the incredibly weak platform you argue from. Blame it on the white guy.
Anyway, thanks for letting me soapbox for a moment.
As a legal immigrant myself I have to agree with Guymar. The people supporting these criminals are blind to the consequences of illegal immigration. Just look how biased this article is.
1) It only mentions how much illegals pay into Social Security. Completely ignores the cost of illegal immigrants on the health care and schooling systems.
2) The quote from Ted Kennedy about forming a Gestapo to send them back. How inflammatory is that, portraying people who support deportation as Jew hating Nazis? The only Fascists I see in the immigration debate are Ted Kennedy and his friends who want to deny citizens the rights they are entitled to. Which means protection from illegal activity.
*Nobody is questioning the vast contributions of immigrants. People are becoming increasingly angry at “illegal” immigrants.
*The last time an amnesty was extended to “illegal” immigrants, that was supposed to end the problem. It merely encouraged more illegal immigration.
*It is not a defense to a crime to say one is otherwise a law- abiding citizen. One cannot shoplift, or hack into people’s bank accounts, and then claim as a defense that one pays taxes, and has not committed any other crimes.
*The United States is becoming overpopulated, anyway. Why should our country be forced to digest an unmanageable number of illegal immigrants from countries with traditionally high birthrates, because those people have moved here illegally?
Boy, what a great piece of tripe. Let’s see we need more immigrants, so let’s limit the number of legal immigrants with college educations from Eastern Europe, but let in all the illegal aliens with 6th grade education so we have cheap labor. Immigrants with college education will ACTUALLY PAY taxes, and social security, use very little social services, and be a net gain to society; while the ones you are advocating for, don’t pay income taxes (and won’t even if they are legal), use all kinds of social services (free medical, dental, housing, schooling (bacause we only teach spanish as a second language – all other immigrants learn English) – the list goes on and on!! From a 2003 study by Harvard (you know that conservative college in Cambridge MA) estimated that every adult illegal alien costs the USA $5000/year – thanks alot. Let’s open our Southern boarders and let them all in to “boost our population!!
Unrestricted growth is the philosophy of the cancer cell.
As a legal immigrant, I want everybody to play by the same rules!
getting legal entrance to US is no easier than finding a way to illegaly cross the border. Want more quality immigration? Get border control and ID check even tougher, and create sensible immigration rules to get a legal entry!! And please stop praising criminals.
Guymar,
I agree. With the economy as it is people are willing to take any job to make ends meet. The real issue I have in all of this is all the extras that are given to illegal immigrants, such as free healthcare, welfare, education, and any other service that we ourselves don’t qualify for. I can’t for the life of me comprehend why it is so hard to understand we as citizens are upset. Many years ago (25) I went through a divorce and as I had hadn’t worked I found it very hard to support my children with hardly any help from my ex-husband. I didn’t want government help but figured if I could get food stamps for 6 months I could save enough to get a lawyer that could help me with child support.
I was refused. I begged them, telling them I only wanted it for 6 months. Nope, I didn’t qualify. I worked 3 jobs, including weekends to support my children. This still upsets as I missed out on so much of their lives. School plays, sports events etc. When I decided to go back to school years later, who paid for it? I did with the extra money I recieved from doing odd jobs here and there. I didn’t qualify for any assistance on that either. And people wonder why we are upset. When my children or myself were ill and went to the doctor I was asked “What insurance do you have?” If I go the doctor today there is a sign that says, “Please provide insurance, payment is due when services are rendered.”
What is so hard to understand when Americans that work hard and want the best for their children are told those services aren’t for them because they don’t qualify and then watch thousands that don’t pay a cent in taxes or if they do they get it all back at the end of the year, qualify for all these
services?
Edward Alden & his Think Tank need to think again…this problem has been ongoing for decades here in NY…the Feds should have installed computer programs to isolate those people with invalid IDs to investigate instead of taking the money…many of these people are probably using someone’s valid ID…a woman had 4people using her SS# illegally, 1 male got a felony conviction while using it & the woman/citizen cannot get a job, has a really bad credit report, etc…Identity theft is a major problem & the FEDS are not doing their jobs to protect their citizens against this horrific & other horrific violent crimes. The “Last Amnesty” in the 90′s was announced as that, the last amnesty. Americans are the only ones required to obey the laws here while the Illegals do whatever they want here without regard of the consequences. The US is a Joke to the rest of the world, so this hurts our country world-wide. And the few that actually pay into the system do NOT support the many who have those ‘off the books’ type jobs & send $$$billions home every week. So I totally disagree with Mr. Alden…No Spin Doctors for me.
Interesting to note that some posters here fall back to the legal vs illegal argument. There is another side to this as well. Consider that what the banking industry has done to this economy was LEGAL because of the removal of Glass-Stegal. Legal doesn’t always mean right.
If an immigrant is here illegally but is not causing trouble, and is working and contributing to society then leave them alone. They harm no one. But if an illegal immigrant is causing trouble by bringing violence, committing actual crimes etc.. then certainly their illegal status should be taken into account and they should serve time here and be deported afterward.
It’s never a cut and dry issue. GS, AIG, Lehman, and others were acting within the law when they created synthetic junk and other instruments that devastated our economy. They have done FAR WORSE than any illegal immigrant group could have done to this country. Our biggest enemies are our own people.
I used to live in NYC myself, and I know full well that the immigrants that come to our land are for the most part, hard working, conservative, family oriented people that want to provide a better life for their children than they had in their home countries.
People that make angry posts against immigrants are usually the people who find themselves out of work for one reason or other and need someone to blame. How is it that immigrants can make the best of the simple opportunity to live in a free republic, while native born Americans sit in the lap of opportunity and can’t seem to do a damned thing with their lives?
If these angry posters aren’t complaining about the illegal status of an immigrant group, they complain about legals not speaking the language well. There will always be something to complain about. Going to a consumption based tax system would ensure that every person living here pays their fair share of taxes, even the undocumented immigrants that live here. We have options at our disposal to deal with illegal immigration in intelligent and productive ways. We just don’t want to do the work to make it happen. It speaks volumes about the greatness of the United States that people are willing to do what ever it takes to get here.
Go bleed your heart out on people who have bottomless pockets and empty heads. We owe Latinos a debt of gratidude? The Mexican government owes American taxpayers $billions spent on their citizens.
I forgot to ad, now when I go to the doctor and I’m asked to provide insurance if I don’t have it I’ll get fined a large amount that will go to provide health care for the ones here illegally. GOD, I feel like I’m living in an alternmate universe.
Sure, they’re great consumers, but where do most of them get their jobs? In businesses created and run by whites, who, BTW, pay the lion’s share of taxes in the US.
Extrapolating US demographic trends leads to quite a bleak picture on pretty much every front you can imagine.
Arizona should amend the law to check everyone’s ID as I am sure that all people here legally would be thrilled to show their IDs. Then there can be no Racist argument, even though I feel this law applies to all Ethnicities & Races equally. I applaude Arizona & Alabama’s candidate for governor who wants English only for driver’s licenses. The states have been burdened by so much debt caused by the FEDs inability or incompetetance to do their jobs. We already have immigration laws that can be enforced & to waste time & effort to slap all those who legally immigrated here in the face with an immediate citizenship bill for liars/cheats/thieves/killers/tax evaders/frauds/abusers/criminals/etc. The News reports on Illegals as immigrants disrespects legal immigrants. How would you feel about a country that doesn’t treat everyone legally in this day & age? Giving Illegals ‘preferred’ benefits is discrimination!
Benny,
Are you crazy? No harm done? When I can’t go the doctor without insurance, give my children a good college education, or live in a house rent free and have to watch someone who lives here illegally and doesn’t even pay taxes qualify for all these things. All of you’ll are nuts. We have put up with it and accepted it for so long that you’ll think it is owed to you. You are upset because we finally said enough. As all of you’ll sat back and laughed because we were so studid and were so nice that you took advantage of the system to the point that it has almost broke our economy quit complaining. I’m tired of hearing about your rights. I HAVE RIGHTS TOO, THAT HAVE BEEN TRAMPLED ON FOR YEARS!
I have heard various reports and read various articles (even here on Reuters) that this recession has affected minorities disproportionally than whites. I do not know where all of a sudden Mr. Clinton has found evidence to the contrary.
And furthermore, I’m going to write out a big check to the state of Arizona for the amount of a weekend hotel stay and I encourage all others who support this law to do the same.
Hopeful in Galveston, Texas
Benny: “If an immigrant is here illegally but is not causing trouble, and is working and contributing to society then leave them alone. They harm no one.”
If it’s late at night and there’s no one around and I drive through the red light because I’ve been waiting for it to change for 3 minutes, I have harmed no one. But I have broken a law and if a police officer happened to cross the hill at that time, he has every logical and legal right to give me a ticket and punish me for breaking that law, even though no one was harmed. Or the big brother camera can take a picture of my car and mail me a fine/ticket. Understood. I broke the law, I accept the penalty. The other side of that is that they could choose not to give me a ticket.
Same situation here. They have broken a law. The law enforcement from the federal level has chosen not to punish it. Arizona has said they are going to punish it. It is their prerogative, I would think. And I support them in that.
One of the problems with the whole “they’re contributing to society even though they are illegal” is that by violating a law and not getting punished for it, you become less respectful of other laws and are statistically more likely to violate other laws. It doesn’t mean you will, you are a great person, work long hours, etc.
And I’m sorry “ahjessica” but you would have to show me the paystubs of the illegal workers from your “experience”. And you would have to show me that none of them ever abuse the food stamp/free health systems because your experience is not broad enough or experienced enough. Look at places where there is actual rampant abuse – like California. How could they have so much budgetary trouble if all the illegals paid their taxes and didn’t abuse the system? Arizona has 400,000+ illegals. You can’t tell me that there aren’t a significant number of them abusing the system. Enough to the point where a state has passed a law to control the problem. You say there is no problem? I believe AZ instead of you, unless you can present some evidence of lack of a problem as they have presented evidence of the reality of the problem.
Debusmann the one-sided does it again:
As a legal immigrant myself, I am aware of the continuous contribution of immigration to America on all levels, and that includes the contribution of illegal immigrants to some extent.
However, let’s not forget that all immigrants owe a debt of gratitude to America as much as it owes them.
I can see why there was an assassination attempt attempt prompted by his reporting. If you would come here to Arizona, the difference between Hispanic Citizens and illegals would be very apparent the attempt to co-mingle the two is an obvious attempt to confuse the issue. SB1070 is not against a race or immigration. It is about Illegal immigration. GET A CLUE!
ggieb4m
You know how to see a doctor without insurance? Be too poor to afford a doctor and go to the emergency room where you will get the minimum of care. I’d also like know how to live rent free. Usually you can do that by staying with a family member and helping them with the bills and groceries. It can be a little crowded, but it’s cheap.
If you aren’t doing so well in life, then do something to change it. Getting angry with people who are willing to do what it takes, because the memory of poverty is still fresh in their minds, isn’t going to help you one bit.
As a native English speaker you already have one hell of an advantage over most of the immigrant population. As a citizen it’s even greater. Don’t blame others for your misfortune. If the shoe was on the other foot you’d do what ever it took to get here as well. If you didn’t take advantage of the opportunities you had access to and now find yourself in a tight spot, how on Earth is that the fault of immigrants?
If your rights have been trampled on, then run for office, write your representatives, or do something productive. I’m a US citizen. I’m not rich, but I don’t blame others for that. If I wanted to be a day laborer I could walk down to an agency that offers day labor positions on a first come first served basis. As a citizen I have access to other options but I can always fall back on that one.
Immigrants don’t typically have any more options than that. You could go pick fruit if you wanted to. But something tells me that you might be “too good” for that kind of work.
Your argument is EXACTLY the point I’m making. You’re an American. But being born in the land of opportunity doesn’t guarantee you any kind of success. You actually have to get your hands dirty. You have to do without for a while, and work to build your dreams. If you aren’t willing to do that, then you have no room to talk. If you were actually doing something to improve your life you’d be to busy to be angry with anyone because you’d have too much work on your plate to waste time on anger.
So spare me your righteous indignation. People who come here to work and do no harm to others should be welcomed. If you think your life sucks now, try living in Mexico or some other place and then get back to me.
How many illegal immigrants paying into Social Security with no prospect of return does it take to offset the damage done by Wall Street?
One of the great things about having lived in Jackson Heights, Queens, NYC is how wonderfully diverse it is.
You could walk down 74th St and feel as if you were in India or Pakistan, walk along 37th Ave or under the el on Roosevelt Ave and you would thing you were in Central or South America. If you went the other direction into Woodside it was as if you jumped over to the Emerald Isle of Ireland. Can I say that all of these people were here leagally, no they were probably not, but how nice it was to experience that on a daily basis. How I miss it.
It is a crying shame that this debate seldom acknowledges the other fact about “illegal” immigration: people DIE trying to cross the desert here in Arizona. All the whiners about how tough they have it when they’re already in the U.S. have not taken the drastic measure of walking dozens of miles through snake and cactus rocky terrain just so they can scratch up a few dollars.
The suffering these immigrants go through to find work is astounding. Most people in these posts really have no idea of the scope of the problem. It’s thousands of ugly deaths in the desert, it’s being raped by the paid “coyotes”, it’s being stolen and kidnapped and held in a packed house without utilities until ransom is paid, it’s being caught and separated from your sister – taken to two different ports hundreds of miles apart at midnight and dumped in a big city and never seeing her again, it’s being humiliated as if you’re forever a lower species.
Yes, there are consequences when you willingly break laws. Yes, life is unfair everywhere. But, this is the U.S. where we are supposed to care about fairness and justice and are laws are supposed to reflect it.
@moodswt, the degree of difficulty one experiences in order to break the law is not a justification for the law being broken.
moodswt, it’s people’s FREE WILL to become illegal immigrants, and they do not have anyone to blame for the consequences but themselves! They could choose legal way and follow “fair and just” rules of immigration to US on uscis.gov, like I did. What’s the problem???
To refer to illegals as “immigrants” cheapens the efforts of those here legally. As others have noted, there is all together too much inconvenience and expense involved in becoming a legal resident of the US, but it’s the law…so follow the law or go back where you came from – the rest of these arguments are all smoke screen and political posturing. I mourn the loss of common sense in this country and it’s “leaders”.
The more Third World your population becomes, the more your country will resemble the Third World. You can take that to the bank.
Of course, this transformation was the intention of those who crafted and sponsored the 1965 Immigration Act, which dealt with legal immigration. The demographic changes now taking place in the US are not forces of nature or acts of God, but 100% man-made.
Part of the reason things are broken is because supposedly reasonable people believe that compliance to the rules regardless of circumstance is absolute. That is not the human way.
Circumstances vary. It’s true that we have many more illegals in the country than many may be comfortable with, but that is OUR fault, not theirs. Securing the boarders and implementing common sense measures will go a long way towards improving things. But getting angry at illegals because of our own failure to enforce our own laws is not their fault. It is a testament to the greatness of the United States that people want to come live and work here.
Immigrants from other countries really have no choice but to go through proper channels because their countries are not walking distance to ours. It may not be fair, but it is what it is. Immigration laws must be applied with common sense and humanity towards all who come in search of a better life. Maybe if American corporations weren’t busy raping the Mexican economy, Mexican citizens wouldn’t need to come here for work.
There are many facets to this issue and none of them are as cut and dry as those people with broken dreams want to make it appear to be. Immigrants don’t come here to be parasites. They come here to WORK and EARN what they have. If some Americans aren’t getting ahead in a land that is full of opportunity, then the blame for that lies squarely on their shoulders.
Immigrants are the Pilgrims and residents are the Indians. Who is injured in human migration? The angry residents are concerned about their comfort as they try to throw “others” out of a lifeboat.
Romanticizing and ennobling our migration and denigrating others’ migration shows the stuff you’re made of.
Let us not forget that it is OUR policies keeping central and south America poor i.e NAFTA. Unless you are of Native American descent, you should probably shut up about “who is here legally or not”
People please illegal immigration is the way of the US from the very beginning, think pilgrims people. they came here illegally, raped the land and now we want to close the borders? but the nature of the beast will not allow it this is the land of the illegal immigrant and it will forever be that.
Rather than using all this energy to try and stop it how about finding ways to make it work for us? and why is everybody crying about tough jobs in the fields that no one wants to do when US corporations keep funneling the good jobs off to Asia? in this whole debate about immigrant taking our jobs I have not heard one person mention all the outsourcing that has cost us our good jobs. I’ve been outsourced twice and rather than bitch about the Mexicans who are going to pick my oranges or wash my dishes I rather we focus on the jobs we have provided India, Malaysia etc to grow their economy but shrink ours.
And btw I am a legal immigrant of 12 years and think Arizona has the potential to ignite the 4th Reich
what we need to realize is that illegal immigrants aren’t doing jobs that Americans don’t want to do, they’re doing the jobs that American businesses don’t want to pay a decent, livable wage for a legal immigrant or citizen to do. this article is garbage for praising people to break the law. let’s give a nice pat on the back, handshake, and a free ride to not pay taxes to all the thieves, pedophiles, murderers, and rapists while we’re at it to!
Good article which has generated quite a bit of vitriol from people who are afraid of immigration. The comments criticizing the article show ignorance of history and facts and some level of hysteria. Most of the economic damage done to the United States comes from legal residents and citizens. Just consider the fantastic levels of economic devastation caused by Bernie Madoff and other Wall Streeters. Just read the news at Reuters, folks. Illegal immigrants sre exploited by the system, helping to keep the standard of living in the USA high. Why don’t the crybabies trying to “kick the Mexicans out” go and picket WalMart, the biggest importer of cheap-labor goods in America, or Goldman Sachs, or AIG?
By the way, did the Mayflower immigrants have a legal visa? Also, are those anti-immigration crybabies willing to take the tough jobs illegal immigrants do? I doubt it.
The real reason for anti-immigrant sentiment, he said, was the fact that the economic downturn in the last few years disproportionally fell on white males without college degrees, such as factory workers. “But they’ll get more jobs if the economy grows. Their taxes will be lower if we’ve got more taxpayers. The pressures on Social Security … will be less if we have more people contributing to the system.
“So I don’t think there’s any alternative but for us to increase immigration,” he said, adding that bringing in more immigrants must be part of the overall strategy.”
Really? That’s the only strategy? Then it never ends, does it? If you have to increase the population to pay for the older generation, guess what you will have to do when the next generation grwos up? Yes, increase it even faster to keep up. Sounds a lot like the deficit answers – just keep spending more and push the real solution into the future where I don’t have to deal with it. What a short-sighted, egotistical clown.
I support laws against Illegals. Most of those that want Illegals to have Amnesty including Obama, it is all about any money the Federal Govt. can make off them.
Problem is the Border States and many others also carry the brunt of the Financial Costs of many illegals. As stated, social, medical costs and in border states, it is a fortune to house illegals in our Prisons for crimes.
This is a huge major cost to states. Our states and mainly boreder states are financially suffering for Prison costs, many of whom are illegals commiting Felons.
It is tough to compare these type people to “good people that are hardworking and want to be here.” But the bad outweighs the good financially, besides breaking our laws of course. The subject is about Illegals and cannot be compared to our awful white collar criminals.
Some of these Illegal females get here and are forced into the sex trade all over our country, of which the US has a huge trade. Frankly, I admire much work that the Mexican men seem to not only do, but are good at.
I hope in the near future, that Mexicans can try to get Visas in Mexico to come here legally. Their President is Nuts to blame Arizona for not wanting illegals, when He should be doing something to improve Mexico and “get rid of those drug lords”.
My biggest problem with this law is that it tramples over the civil rights of American citizens in an effort to fix a largely imaginary problem. There is virtually no way a person can deduce the nationality of a person other than racial profiling. In fact, this new law makes it specifically OK for officers to use race as a factor in deciding to question ones citizenship. This law not only condones, but encourages the harassment of US citizens for no other reason than their complexion is comparable to a paper bag.
Most of the issues I see being raised for those supporting the new Arizona law are “It’s illegal!” and “They’re destroying our economy / way of life!” The first argument is childish at best. Any mature person knows there is a massive disconnect between what is legal and what is right. In fact, laws (and legal statuses) are often changed to adopt “progressive” stances on issues such as civil rights, suffrage, child labor, etc. The second argument is also a proven falsehood. As this article mentions, illegal immigration has a net positive effect on the US economy. Furthermore, illegal aliens are incarcerated at a much lower rate than your average citizen, and are LESS likely to commit the violent crimes they are often accused of importing.
While I agree with Clinton that this sudden swell for fixing the illegal immigration “problem” stems from people needing to blame some external force for the tribulations of their own lives, it is in no way limited to uneducated white males. History has proven time and again that ignorance, bigotry, and hatred know no bounds.
The article is a flash in the pan. It reads in part,
“… People working with false papers have their social security taxes withheld from wages but are not entitled to receive benefits.”
Well, that is the price paid for having false papers and a status of ILLEGAL!
A Limited Number of Jobs.
To say immigrants do not take jobs from citizens appears incorrect. “X” number of candidates for “X” number of hourly jobs is the real-time condition.
A great many if not most immigrants from LatAm probably represent unskilled or semi-skilled labor, and when they are trying to secure work in the U.S. they are in fact competing with citizens of the same level.
The Mysterious Underground Cash Transaction.
For every illegal working in a restaurant in NYC or a major metro city, there are probably dozens that work as unskilled and semi-skilled day laborers. I don’t know what the restaurant workers get as an hourly wage, but the day laborers in major cities in the northeast get (demand) $10. per hour for general labor, OFF the books.
Beyond their contribution to the U.S. economy by way of sales tax at the retail level and the unmeasured tangible results of their labor, the overall contribution to society by an illegal day laborer working for cash, is difficult to define. The remaining portion of that $10 per hour is absorbed by rent (probably paid in cash) and remittances back home. The local, state and federal governments don’t benefit from that total employment transaction, as both parties, the employer and employed escape taxation beyond the retail consumption level.
In the meantime, those citizens that are legal and traceable, contribute a greater share of their earnings and productivity as compared to an illegal worker.
A Debt of gratitude?
Mexico and its Central American neighbors should be glad they just happen to be landlocked with the USA. Without access to the USA and Canada, what would all those clumsy governments do with their unemployed and underemployed populations? And more important, what would they do without those remittances? That external source of cash being wired home, weekly, monthly, is gravy for those governments, and has the same impact as foreign direct investment.
The Western Hemisphere has two economic engines the U.S. and Canada. The remaining countries need to carry more weight. It appears as though the governments of the region are satisfied with the current economic migration patterns, and clearly have no intentions on making their economies and societies attractive enough so their citizens will not bolt to the U.S. and Canada.
America as we know it, and as we have known it for some time, has been made great because of immigrants–legal and illegal–whether the immigrants came here as free men and women, or whether they came here against their will as slaves. America has been and is made strong by immigration. That said, there is no country in the world that can have, in effect, a very open border as America has had for years. It’s a thorny issue and I have no answers, but my response to the complexity of the issue is not to take a racist stance toward Latinos or others whose skin color differs from my own.
Ever since the election of President Obama, I’ve heard and seen a lot of (almost always white) Americans complain about how the government is awful–it’s too intrusive, it spends too much money, it’s moving in the wrong direction, etc. Well, as the conservatives in the 1960′s and 1970′s told liberals: “America, love it or leave it.” That’s my response to people today who don’t like America: GO. Go elsewhere. Pack your bags. Emigrate. Get out and stay out. There are plenty of people risking their lives to come into this country illegally, because they know what opportunities await them here. The exodus of the home-grown complainers to other countries would no doubt help ease the unemployment problem.
This issue feels a bit like the bank bail-outs, or the auto bail-outs, or the mortgage bail-outs to me. It just seems wrong that most of us who pay our mortgages, and pay our taxes, and act legally and morally are the ones being punished for it.
Legal immigration is a very positive thing. The country grows and prospers because of immigrants. The bureaucratic INS drags their feet far too long and many terrific people get denied for the wrong reasons or just get frustrated by the process and leave.
Most people see government as unfair and inefficient. Because of this, as a society, many people think it’s acceptable to cheat on their taxes, or work under the table, or immigrate illegally. But hey! That’s not fair to the rest of us!
Illegal status gives the purchaser of labor enormous bargaining advantage. Insisting that legality is all that matters and only apply it to the laborer and not the labor purchaser is discrimination.
Using legality as leverage is the main reason this whole scam works. Enforce and apply criminal law to purchasers of illegal labor and see what happens.
In theory, a guest worker program would not be a bad thing if it required employers to see to it that the workers they brought in are housed, given medical coverage and aren’t used simply as a tool to drive down the wages of unskilled Americans. The problem is that the pro-immigration factions have almost no credibility. No one believes that they have any intention of re-gaining control of our borders and enforcing whatever limits and restrictions such a law would include. Even Ronald Regan, who signed the first amnesty and the mandate that hospitals treat non-paying illegal immigrants, didn’t seem serious about securing our borders. And nothing reeks of insincerity more than someone who responds to a question about “illegal immigration” with a generalization about “immigrants” as if the questioner were attacking all immigrants. Without more intellectual honesty than that, there is no way a guest worker program will gain the support of the American people.
Illegals: collage of criminals, inmates, underground economy, sending earnings back to Mexico, using social services to which they are not entitled, unskilled laborers, cannot speak English, unfamiliar with any history of states or US. Nice! Rather, let’s citizenize all applicants from Canada, India, China, South Korea, Taiwan, Vietnam, Eastern Europe and Africa, Australia, New Zealand and Brazil.
A common theme: “They come here to do the jobs that Americans won’t do.”
I’ll suggest that they come here to do the jobs that Americans are paid not to do. We have such a strong network of social benefits that we don’t have to do those jobs that are “beneath us”; so many folks without a job find it easier just to stay home, watch the telly and collect the fruits of their various safety nets. Those who wish for fewer “illegals”, might want to turn their attention to reducing the freebies for the home folk.