America’s trouble with Islam

By Bernd Debusmann
August 27, 2010

Of the many posters held aloft in angry demonstrations about plans for an Islamic cultural centre and mosque in New York, one in particular is worth noting: “All I ever need to know about Islam, I learned on 9/11.”

As an example of wilful ignorance, it’s in a class by itself. It passes judgment, in just 12 words, about a sprawling universe of 1.3 billion adherents of Islam (in 57 countries around the world) who come from different cultures, speak a wide variety of languages, follow different customs, hold different nationalities and believe in different interpretations of their faith, just like Christians or Jews. Suicidal murderers are a destructive but tiny minority.

But for the people waving all-I-ever-need-to-know posters in front of national television cameras two blocks from “ground zero,” site of the biggest mass murder in American history, Islam equals terrorism. No need for nuance, no need for learning, no need for building bridges between the faiths. The mindset epitomized by the slogan mirrors the radical fringe of Islamic thought, equally doubt-free and self-righteous.

Both sides have data to back up their assertions. The Islam-equals-terrorism school of thought can point to 3,000 victims of the attacks on New York’s World Trade Center and the Pentagon. Those who preach that the U.S. is waging war on Islam itself, and terror acts are therefore a form of self-defence, can argue that Christian soldiers have been killing Muslims through history, from the Crusades to the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

The “ground zero mosque” affair began with a dispute over the center’s proximity to the hole where the Twin Towers once stood. Too close to hallowed ground, argue opponents, including family members of people who died in the attack. The question of location morphed into a national debate on religious tolerance and prompted demonstrations against planned mosques more than a thousand miles from New York.

Does all this add up to a rising wave of anti-Muslim bigotry? Or is it more of the same, with the volume turned higher in advance of mid-term elections? There are no hard data to answer that question and it is worth looking back a few years at polls on American attitudes towards Muslims. In 2006, a Gallup survey found that 39 percent favoured rules requiring Muslims, including U.S. citizens, to carry special identification to better spot potential terrorists.

Callers to a Washington radio show host who followed up on the ID issue suggested identifying Muslims with a crescent-shaped tattoo on their foreheads, stamps on their driving licenses, passports and birth certificates, or special armbands.

THE ISLAMOPHOBIA MACHINE
Ibrahim Hooper, spokesman for the Council on American-Islamic relations, thinks the noise level of anti-Muslim statements has risen because the Tea Party movement has attracted Americans “more ready to speak out” than traditional political outlets. But at the core of the often ugly debate is what he calls “the Islamophobia machine – right-wing bloggers on the Internet, talk radio, and opinion columns in conservative newspapers.”

Like President George W. Bush before him, President Barack Obama has had little success in convincing his fellow Americans that al Qaeda and the Taliban do not represent Islam. In Obama’s case there is an added complication: 57 percent of Republicans, according to a poll in spring, think he is a Muslim. (He is not.)

Nationally and across party lines, 24 percent believe their president is a Muslim, according to a TIME poll taken after Obama stepped into the New York Islamic center debate by saying that Muslims had the same right as anyone else to practice their religion, including in a place of worship in Lower Manhattan. A day later he watered down his remark. It had been about the right to build the center, not the wisdom of doing so, he explained.

No such vacillation from Michael Bloomberg, the mayor of New York and virtually the only leader who has spoken about the mosque without making politics look like a game reserved for panderers and demagogues. Newt Gingrich, a possible Republican presidential candidate for the 2012 elections likened backers of the New York mosque to Nazis and observed that “Nazis don’t have the right to put up a sign next to the holocaust museum in Washington.”

Bloomberg, who is Jewish and not affiliated to any party, said this week that dropping plans to build the center or moving it elsewhere would undercut American values and principles and “feed the false impressions that some Americans have about Muslims. We would send a signal around the world that Muslim Americans may be equal in the eyes of the law, but separate in the eyes of their countrymen.

“And we would hand a valuable propaganda tool to terrorist recruiters, who spread the fallacy that America is at war with Islam. Islam did not attack the World Trade Center – al Qaeda did.”

It’s an admirably clear message. Whether it can get through to the people with the “All I need to know about Islam” signs is another question.

119 comments

We welcome comments that advance the story through relevant opinion, anecdotes, links and data. If you see a comment that you believe is irrelevant or inappropriate, you can flag it to our editors by using the report abuse links. Views expressed in the comments do not represent those of Reuters. For more information on our comment policy, see http://blogs.reuters.com/fulldisclosure/2010/09/27/toward-a-more-thoughtful-conversation-on-stories/

Get out of your idealistic bubble, Bernd. The bigger issue is not the fear of terrorism.

All I ever need to know about Islam, I learned by looking at cultures dominated by Islam. Islam utterly fails as a force to promote prosperity and freedom for any culture it dominates.

And as far as domination goes, All I ever need to know about Islam, I learned by watching what’s happening in Western Europe. This is NOT a peaceful religion that assimilates and co-exists with others. It’s adherents are bent on taking over and imposing Sharia law.

Facts and evidence speak much louder than words. Look at what’s happening around the world and get a clue.

Posted by Pyotr | Report as abusive

I wonder what would happen if I wanted to build a Christian church or a Synagogue in Mecca, Medina, Hebron or anywhere in Iran,Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, et al

Would we be met with open arms and tolerance? Would we be left alone unmolested?

It seems to me from the actions of the radical and terrosit Islamists and the inaction “Islam” in general against these terrorists, the only people who are intolerant are Islamic apologists like yourself and the Islam in its totality.

Posted by DrewMN | Report as abusive

Islam does not project an image of trustworthyness and forgiveness because Islamic Nations do not punish their own when they commit horrendously grotesque acts of violence. More often than not they welcome them with open arms. Knowing that, it seems ridiculous in the extreme to riducule those with the will to speak out.

Posted by GLK | Report as abusive

Islam does not project an image of trustworthyness and forgiveness because Islamic Nations do not punish their own when they commit horrendously grotesque acts of violence. More often than not they welcome them with open arms. Knowing that, it seems ridiculous in the extreme to riducule those with the will to speak out.

Posted by GLK | Report as abusive

The problem with this commentary, and most of what I see coming from the left on the mosque issue, is an arrogant supposition that anyone who “fears” Islam is uneducated and only reacting to 9/11. It’s demeaning to anyone who has legitimate concerns. And there are plenty.

The more I learn about Islam (by examining the real-life practice of Islam around the world – see previous comment), the more I see that all Americans should be VERY concerned about the biased deference to Islam currently displayed at many levels.

Furthermore, the more I learn about Islam, the more it becomes clear that the liberal elite in this country either haven’t looked at what’s happening in Western Europe, or (shudder) they do understand and despise America so much that that welcome a takeover.

That last thought used to be reserved in my mind as an implausible conspiracy theory, but the more I see the once-unthinkable coming from the white house and other political leaders, I’m not so sure anymore.

Posted by Pyotr | Report as abusive

I love how these elite media types call everyone who disagrees with them: idiots, racists, bigots, Islamaphobes, Homophobes – the list goes on. To them, they are so smart that they can’t even fathom the idea that the other guy might actually have a point. What’s even better, this dude Bernd, actually quotes a CAIR spokesman who thinks the Tea Party has something to do with Islamaphobia. Partisan reporting? You bet!

Posted by ironman_az_3 | Report as abusive

Yes i agree with what you say.Islam cannot be compared with western culture.What do you propose?Invade as many Muslim countries as we can?Kill as many Muslims as we can?Put a sword on their head and convince them to denounce their fate?

Part of the problem is that the west does not want to accept that in Muslims countries Islam is still respected while in the west Christianity is not

Posted by TheGreenKing | Report as abusive

Absoutetly pathetic. Islam teaches violence in hadith (WORDS OF MUHAMMAD). You never even looked at what hadith had to say.

“One who dies but does not fight in the way of Allah, not does he express any desire or determination for Jihad, dies the death of a hypocrite” [Sahih Muslim hadith]

…Their is much more violence in hadith

http://www.wikiislam.net/wiki/Misinterpr eted_Quranic_Verses

Posted by Ahiu | Report as abusive

Great article! Completely agree with Mike Bloomberg!

Posted by pesheff | Report as abusive

I echo the comments so far. Just because you disagree with someone or a religion practices does not make you ignorant or a bigot.

Posted by DavidS95 | Report as abusive

I don’t think that ‘freedom’ is a goal of Islam. Admittedly I am but a poor student of the world’s religions, but I thought that ‘surrender’ to the will of God was one of it’s main points. The test will be if Democracy, which shows no preference for any religion will tolerate Islam’s very different views from those of Christianity. Or maybe that’s the choice we have to make now, are we a Democratic nation or a Christian nation. A Democratic nation will allow both and provide a way for them to coexist. If we are a Christian nation, I suspect that the Armageddon theorists will be proved right in fairly short order.

Posted by lhathaway | Report as abusive

So, all of you who are anti – mosque, anti-islam: I have one question for you:
– What happened to all the american purported values of freedom and liberty (including of religion!!!) that the US is spreading around the world? Are you suggesting (gasp!) that you are selective about what values you impose on others vs what you practice at home?
– How should I spell hypocracy? =)

Posted by pesheff | Report as abusive

All the people who attack Islam must propose an alternative instead of just attacking it.I know its unfortunate that in Muslim countries Islam is still respected, while in western “civilized” counties Christianity is not.What should we do about this?Invade more muslim countries?Kill more muslims?Ban Islam in the west?People who attack Islam cannot copy with the fact that in Muslim countries, a religion plays a key role

Posted by TheGreenKing | Report as abusive

Nothing personal to the 1.3 billion, but fact is there is no Allah. Religion is nothing more than a safety net or comfort zone for those who need something to believe in because they have no purpose otherwise. Do the math and show the real world some proof of your gods? You won’t find any because the Koran or a bible is just a book that some chap decided to write. Unfortunately, the masses of this world are easily brainwashed and in turn, brainwash others. 1.3 billion on the result of a domino effect.

All this killing in the name of the non-existent Allah, or for that matter any other god, is nothing more than representation of the way it’s been for thousands of years. Religion killing religion, country killing country, man killing man. Welcome to life on earth, where we are the uncivilized.

As for the mosque – it’s clearly in bad taste considering the location. You don’t need to be religious or a genius to figure that one out. Just use a little common-sense or borrow some from someone else.

Posted by somethingtosay | Report as abusive

So when the neocons win their “war” on Islam…what’s next? This story plays out over and over again. These folks just need desperately something to fight or something to complain about. If Islam disappeared from the planet, they would begin going after each other, or the Lutherans, or the Methodists, or the Babtists that allow their children to dance. IT NEVER ENDS WITH YOUR MINDSET. You are just as bad as the Islamic extremists, AND you fall for their strategy when you start to hate. Osama Bin Laden is laughing at us in a cave somewhere. Just like the Emperor in Star Wars.

Posted by Marius429 | Report as abusive

As a matter of fact, Islam is in all the countries of the world, not just 57.

The attitudes to Islam in America are similar to those in Western Europe to Jews in the 1930s.

If America doesn’t turn this around, they will be in very serious trouble.

Posted by Dafydd | Report as abusive

Speaking as a right wing blogger (or at least commentor), I say: Bloomberg and Debusmann are correct.

Islam is not, inherently and in and of itself, evil.

Allow me to qualify this- the cultural center of Islam has a very corrupt and vicious core. The sort of fundamentalist Islam that allows (note that I do not say “promotes,” I leave that judgement to the reader and will not make it myself) such things as the broad and deeply entrenched sex-slave trade and events such as driving 24 hot nails in a maid is dangerous.

At one time I lived close to a mosque, in a predominantly Muslim neighborhood. The Imam was arrested on charges of terrorism. The rest of the local Islamic community was A) convinced that Americans were out to get them (because some Americans are racist bigots), and that B) they could not turn to the police for assistance, because the five-oh would be unwilling to help, since they were Muslim.

I and my family disabused them of these notions, and while I do not agree with some of their cultural practices, at least they are beginning to understand that there should be only one ethnicity in America- American.

Pyotr, GLK- do you suppose that we begin branding Muslims or require them to register? Perhaps we should put them in camps, so that we can both keep an eye on them *and* protect them from dangerous bigots.

If you believe this is wise, then I recommend that you watch Schindler’s List. It’s a very good film starring Liam Neeson.

If you do not believe that such could ever happen in the land of the Free, I recommend looking up the concentration camps we maintained for the Japanese in World War II.

Ironman- The “tea party” movement isn’t a cohesive movement, as I understand it. It’s just a bunch of little stuff *happening.* People are speaking out. *That* movement to speak out *could* be related to the anti-muslim movement, simply because it has become chic to speak out, which is exactly what this article says CAIR said.

I will grant that the media is skewed, and often tends to misreport. However, do not misread the text simply to suit your own view.

Posted by ComeWhatMay | Report as abusive

I live in a country where the main aim of politicians is to use Muslims as a vote back and to do that they are ready to bend forward (not bed over backwards). Islam in itself may be the best religion in the world, however, can the same be said about Islam as interpreted by its followers?

Islam is not a religion, it is a nation, says the holy Quran. It tells, by the way of Sharia, how to run a nation. Unless Sharia is applied on a governance, it is not considered fit for a Muslim to follow it.

The situation is bad… in my humble opinion.. if a Christian or a Jew or a Hindu stands up and says I am proud of my religion he is considered bigot, if a Muslim says he believes in supremacy of Islam he is just exercising his human rights. We are living, unfortunately, in a world where being politically correct is more important then being correct.

What good is a mosque if it hurts even one person’s sentiments? By hurting a human being the very purpose of building a place of worship is defeated.

Posted by dangerouslydead | Report as abusive

Awesome commentary Bernd. The United States of America, sadly, has had an infectious smear of xenophobia running through it for some time, one which permeates today (the U.S. has a record number of active hate groups, for example, as documented by the Southern Poverty Law Center) and one that no doubt grew out of American slavery. People of color (especially blacks)–but also Jews and gay people–have historically been the target of American xenophobes, and while these groups still are targeted by hateful xenophobes, Muslims (and those perceived to be, such as Sikhs) have been added to the list. It’s tragic that America invaded two Islamic countries post-9/11, because those countries’ goverments had nothing to do with the terroristic attack on America on 9/11. Hundreds of thousands of innocent Muslims have lost their lives in wars the United States created since 9/11, and so no thoughtful person should wonder why the United States has an image problem with those who practice Islam.

Are fundamentalist Muslims sexist and homophobic? Yes, but so are fundamentalist Christians and Jews.

Religious fundamentalism is the problem, not any specific religion itself.

Posted by 1AmericanGuy | Report as abusive

Awesome commentary Bernd. The United States of America, sadly, has had an infectious smear of xenophobia running through it for some time, one which permeates today (the U.S. has a record number of active hate groups, for example, as documented by the Southern Poverty Law Center) and one that no doubt grew out of American slavery. People of color (especially blacks)–but also Jews and gay people–have historically been the target of American xenophobes, and while these groups still are targeted by hateful xenophobes, Muslims (and those perceived to be, such as Sikhs) have been added to the list. It’s tragic that America invaded two Islamic countries post-9/11, because those countries’ goverments had nothing to do with the terroristic attack on America on 9/11. Hundreds of thousands of innocent Muslims have lost their lives in wars the United States created since 9/11, and so no thoughtful person should wonder why the United States has an image problem with those who practice Islam.

Are fundamentalist Muslims sexist and homophobic? Yes, but so are fundamentalist Christians and Jews.

Religious fundamentalism is the problem, not any specific religion itself.

Posted by 1AmericanGuy | Report as abusive

Sorry guys, he’s right. It’s total fear reaction. Who cares if they want to pray? It’s perfectly legal. Sharia Law? You have to be KIDDING me! That, my friends, is not legal, and will never hold up. Stop spreading the hate, put on your big-boy pants, and teach your kids the right life lessons.

Posted by THeRmoNukE | Report as abusive

Hmmmm….let’s see. Terrorist acts commited by Muslims in the name of Islam since 1980 (in no particular order):

Khobar Towers on June 25, 1996, Kingdom of Saudi Arabia: 19 service men and women dead, 372 wounded

Beirut barracks bombing October 23, 1983, Lebanon: 241 American servicemen dead

Twin Towers, New York City, Sept. 11th, 2001: 2,995 civilian deaths

2002 Bali bombings, Bali, Indonesia: 202 dead (88 Australians, and 38 Indonesians)

7 August 1998, U.S. embassies in Nairobi, Kenya, and Dar es Salaam, Tanzania, 224 dead, including 12 American citizens, over 4,000 injured

Attack on the USS Cole, October 12th, 2000: 17 American sailors were killed, 39 injured

Fort Hood shooting, on November 5, 2009, committed by US Army Major Nidal Malik Hasan, 13 dead and 30 wounded

1993 World Trade Center bombing, February 26, 1993: six dead, 1,042 injured

Madrid train bombings, 11 March 2004, 191 dead and 1,800 wounded

I could go on and on but I’ll stop there. And never once, was there any sort of meaningful condemnation or outrage from Muslims. On the contrary, they either sat on their hands and said nothing or were dancing in the streets.

If it walks like a duck, sounds like a duck, and looks like a duck, then it must be a duck!

What a bunch of dribble Mr. Debusmann.

Posted by mredi42 | Report as abusive

9 years later, after reading tens of thousands of pages and watching hundreds of hours visual documentation, biting and testing every bit of the available information and filtering everything through my nearly 3 decades experience in the construction business, I still couldn’t find anything to proof the official story of the US regime. Then the obvious question is – what really happened at 9/11 and who did it? ( I know – it is a dumb question, but needs a very smart person to answer it!)

Posted by Saturn2000 | Report as abusive

pesheff, 100% contrary to your (overarching) comment, we’re stating that the values that are legislated in the US (not “imposed”) simply be applied fairly and without bias. In countless situations in the US, churches and other religious facilities have been denied building permits for a whole host of reasons. We’ve come to accept that some of these are fair an necessary in a pluralistic society.

What we are reacting to is _preferred_ treatment being given to the mosque developers that flies in the face of several _legitimate_ arguments and concerns over the building of this mosque. (I can outline them again if needed).

Those concerns are being dismissed with no regard and no valid intellectually honest discussion, and anyone who raises them is being labeled as an intolerant “islamaphobe.” As you can imagine, logic would suggest this clearly lines up with the pattern of dominance and takeover that Islam practices around the globe.

Posted by Pyotr | Report as abusive

Hmm. Go back to before the Crusades and you find Muslims killing Christians and Jews for refusing to convert to Islam.

How convenient that Muslims and Liberals remember the Crusades, but forget the Moors…

I disagree with somthingtosay on whether or not God exists, but I do have to agree that religion has been used as an excuse to kill a significant number of people over the millenia.

But then so have other excuses such as Race, Class, etc.

Let’s face it killing is just another way to express power in the pursuit of ones goals.

That’s what 9/11 was, the expression of power in the pursuit of someone’s goals.

Building the Mosque near Ground Zero would also be the expression of power in pursuit of someone’s goals.

The only question is: Is it appropriate to allow that expression to occur in this location?

Posted by bobw111 | Report as abusive

Sorry, but “legal” does not equal “right”. It is legal to kill unborn humans, but it does not make it right. Are there peaceful Muslims? Yes, but they are considered mediocre much like Christians who are deep in the word and deep in prayer consider benchwarming “Christians” who don’t do much but claim the title. Those who do as the Koran says, “Kill the infidels where they stand” are the real Muslims. This is why no one can ever truly defen Islam as a peaceful religion. Mohamed was a ruthless leader who accepted nothing short of complete conversion at the point of a sword. This was the first Muslim. Christ was led as a lamb to the slaughter and never once tried to fight. Even when his followers tried to defend them He said, “put away your sword”. Have there been some misguided Christians? Certainly, the crusades and wars among protestant/catholic lines show that Christians can and will forget themselves. However, a quick trip through the Bible will set them who are serious about serving God straight. A trip to the Koran will set a true Muslim up in arms. Read it for yourselves people, the Koran COMMANDS its followers to KILL. (Qur’an 2:191)

Posted by Texicano | Report as abusive

THeRmoNukE, I used to believe that too. But Sharia law is _already_ being imposed in certain public school districts in MI and FL. It’s happening now! In the US! A slippery slope, but that’s how Islamic domination works. Start small and build from there.

And yes, it’s unconstitutional, but the constitution is only as good as the people with enough backbone to fight for and enforce it.

Posted by Pyotr | Report as abusive

Anyone who has studied history knows that you could take the anti-islamic comments of posters like Pyotr and GLK, replace the word “Islam” with “Christianity”, and they would be equally accurate. The problem is not one religion or another. The problem is extremism. The problem is hatred. Those who protest against the Lower Manhattan Community Center are only adding more negativity to the world, more hate, more extremism. You’re making it worse. Only education (institutional and personal) can break the cycle. People who choose to shut down that self-improvement and march for hatred are part of the problem, even though they want to be part of the solution.

Posted by TrueIronPatriot | Report as abusive

QUOTE: ” wilful ignorance”???? “Islamophobia machine”???

Bernd – This is a religion with the core belief to kill YOU without hesitation or remorse if you do not convert. It is 100% exclusionary to ANY other religion. It main goal is to convert the world to their religion by any means, and prohibits one from ever changing from their religion under penalty of death. Globally it restricts access to media, libraries and any other source of information that can allow free thought. Here’s a challenge — name any Muslim country in the world which is a leader in any sense of economy or social freedom.

And please Bernt, spare the civilized persons of this world the bullsh*t about “religious freedom” when these medieval fanatics do not first practice the BASIC freedoms upon which OUR society is built – life, freedom, and liberty.

Tell you what Bernt – go do an interview with ANY Muslim leader in this country and just get them to state 1) ALL religions are equal including Muslim 2) EVERYONE has the inherent right to freely practice ANY religion they choose and 3) killing ANYONE for ANY reason is evil and wrong (as opposed to “innocents” which are defined as Muslims only). If you can do that, you will have accomplished what no B.S. media person has done to date.

Posted by cynicalme | Report as abusive

TrueIronPatriot, it’s a well-known liberal tactic to label anyone who has a legitimate, intellectual argument that is contrary to liberal dogma to raise the accusation of “hate,” “bigoty,” “extremism.” Common-sense people are raising serious concerns, and none of them are being adequately addressed.

Your whole broad-brush approach ignores the fact that the concerns being raised might actually be _legitimate_!

Posted by Pyotr | Report as abusive

Maybe what is happening is that some Americans have a pathological need for a big enemy. Now that the Red Menace is no longer red and its cousin, the Yellow Peril, has become America’s banker, Islam works just fine as the bogeyman of choice.

Posted by Komment | Report as abusive

One need not look far past the protesters in New York to see where in lies the true face of the immanent danger ahead-
If the religious founders of this mosque were truly of a kind heart and spiritual nature, then they would react accordingly by simply seeking another location as a peaceful response to the pain it is causing the still mourning and recovering families of the 9-11 tragedy.
This present situation could very likely incite a civil suit against several parties due to the high presence of Post-Traumatic-Stress Disorder amongst the survivors as well as citizens.
“If you don’t stand for something, then you’ll fall for anything”

Posted by harleypyrate02 | Report as abusive

The only problem with this article is its need to be written. No matter how much Pyotr protests, people who judge an entire population on limited and biased premises are best described by the word ‘bigot’. Now let them build their damned mosque-that’s-not-even-a-mosque, and worry about some of the real problems in the world.

Posted by RexMax46 | Report as abusive

It seems like Americans and Taliban have more in common than the differences. At least they both practice this religious bigotry. Why are you guys fighting Taliban? I think you can be good friends with them. You are Christian bigots and they are Muslim bigots. Let us just compare the people massacred by both of you.

Islam(Taliban) – 9/11(3 thousand people killed), Al-Qauida( may be another 3 thousand all over the world).

Christians(US,UK,Germans) – Iraq(3 million), Afghan(2 million), Vietnam(1.5 million), Holocaust(6 million).

Yeah..I got a ‘clear answer’ that Christianity is the ‘most peaceful’ religion…..LOL.
The facts speak for itself.

Posted by stand4peace | Report as abusive

Well done commentary overall. The folks against will never change because as the theme of the commentary reads, “all they ever needed to know… blah, blah, blah” is their touchstone and they will not be changed. Those for demonstrate they have a low level of tolerance for fellow citizens who exhibit traits we have hoped would be long grown out of.

The building in question is not “near” ground zero unless several hundred meters and a few city blocks is considered “near” and then perhaps “near” or “close by” might include anywhere on the island or maybe in the state or maybe somewhere between the oceans. The actual question it seems is how long do we have to tolerate being bludgeoned by this phenomena of the dimmest and least able dominating and steering the direction of our society?

The truth is the so-called Americans who are so enraged about a multi-cultural building located in one of the most diverse of cities need to remember their place. And keep to it. As their mamas told them when they were little children: Sit down and be quiet, the grownups are having a conversation.

Don’t wanna sit down and be quiet. Tough. Do so anyway. Oh, and eat your peas.

Posted by tangolimagolf | Report as abusive

Islam does not tell us to kill anyone infidels or otherwise.

In fact according to Muhammad (PBUH): “If you kill one person, it is as if you have killed the whole of Mankind.”

These extremists do not represent my religion Islam. They have there own twisted way of interpreting the religion which is clearly and utterly wrong.

Here is another quote of Prophet Mohammed (PBUH): “ One who hurts a non-Muslim, he hurts me and one who hurts me, hurts God.” (Hadith)

Also Qur’an says: “… and argue with them in ways that are best and most gracious.” (16: 125)

So I urge everyone one to please be more open minded and tolerant and do your research before coming to conclusions.

Posted by ObjectiveGuy | Report as abusive

Ground cero to most, is holy land. In that regards those who want to built a mosque close to this site, should recondider based on respect to their fellow citizens.
As I ask respect from fellow islamic citizens, I ask the rest of us for forgiveness for ramsacking and destroying sacred and burial grounds of native americans. Is it not the same?

Posted by mucaro | Report as abusive

I am actually glad that you are recommending people to read the Koran so they can see how full of BS you are…look how easy it is to quote scripture without context..

“Behold, these caused the children of Israel, through the counsel of Balaam, to commit trespass against the LORD in the matter of Peor, and there was a plague among the congregation of the LORD. Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.” (Numbers 31:16-18)

“And to the others he said in mine hearing, Go ye after him through the city, and smite: let not your eye spare, neither have ye pity: Slay utterly old and young, both maids, and little children, and woman: but come not near any man upon whom is the mark; and begin at my sanctuary. Then they began at the ancient men which were before the house.” (Ezekiel 9:5-6)

Posted by aishenglong | Report as abusive

When I think another person is arrogant, how do I know I myself am not? Am I Almighty himself that knows? When I think that another is brainwashed, how do I know I myself am not by my own ignorance or blinded by my own pride? Someone would say that if you eat one sour apple from an apple tree, then you know that tree does not bear sweet apples. But then how do I know if it is that apple I had was not ripe, or the sweetness of the apples from an apple tree is not like the worms in the apples from that tree? If one apple from that tree has worms in it, does it mean all the apples in that tree has worms? Or maybe sometime that is true?

Posted by JoeAtLowell | Report as abusive

@Pyotr – “tactic”? I’m not a liberal (nor a conservative … gasp!) and I fully well see the ignorance, bigotry, racism, and hatred posed by these Islam-aphobists (hey a new word!). Reminds me of the “common-sense” people in the 50s who said “I don’t have a problem with [black people], but they ain’t a goin’ to the same school with my daughter!”.

“Ignorance and prejudice and fear walk hand in hand.”

Posted by bobSmith | Report as abusive

how about Islams problem with anything but Islam? How about Islams problem with stoning people for alleged crime? How about the Islam problem with sharia(*sp) law?

Posted by BHOlied | Report as abusive

Mr. Debusmann, your article clearly reveals that–however much you may loathe people who claim they need to know nothing more about Islam than 9/11–your knowledge of Islam is no better. In fact, “As an example of wilful ignorance, [this article is] in a class by itself.”

I echo your words because wilful ignorance surely is one reason why an esteemed columnist for Reuters could write something like this when there exist myriad books proving that your portrayal of Islam, and its historical relations with Christian peoples, is disingenuous at best.

PLEASE, if you have not done so, educate yourself properly on Islam before you opine publicly like this. Read Serge Trifkovic’s book *The Sword of the Prophet*. Concerning this book–which completely debunks your fourth paragraph about historical data backing up assertions–one could rightly say “All I ever need to know about Islam, I learned from it.” If you want more historical proof read *The Legacy of Jihad: Islamic Holy War and the Fate of Non-Muslims*, by Dr. Andrew Bostom. Or *The Decline of Eastern Christianity Under Islam: From Jihad to Dhimmitude: Seventh-Twentieth Century*, by Bat Ye’or. There’s just no way you could write what you did having read these books.

America’s trouble with Islam is that most Americans have no idea what they’re really dealing with. Islam is not a religion as most Americans think of religion, i.e., privatized, having minimal impact on the public sphere, reflecting a total separation of church and state, etc. Rather, Islam is a social/political ideology intertwined with faith in Allah. If Islam was merely worship of Allah (like Christians worship the Triune God), there would be no problem. But true Islam seeks nothing less than world domination, the ushering in of Sharia Law, and the dhimmitude of all “non-believers”. The so-called “radical extremists” in Islam have not “hijacked a peaceful religion” but are simply zealots who are faithful to what the Koran really teaches. They are calling the millions of sleeping Muslims around the world to be faithful once again.

This is what most Americans don’t get. And since the Koran teaches “warfare tactics” such as lying (what they call “taqiyya”) in order to achieve their aims, gullible and “nice” Americans too often want to give them the benefit of the doubt and believe what Islamic leaders say about their peaceful intentions.

I fear that our country may represent the proverbial frog in the [Islamic soup] pot. Certainly we will become their food if we so ignorantly believe about them as you do in your lamentable opinion piece.

Posted by paddyinpdx | Report as abusive

Islam equals terrorism? What religion was Timothy McVeigh? The 9/11 hijackers were almost all Saudis. Why didn’t we attack Saudi Arabia instead of Iraq? Why were the only ones allowed to fly out of the US after 9/11 Saudis? Why aren’t the protesters in this article enraged that we have Saudi gasoline in our fuel tanks?

Posted by colonelP | Report as abusive

Islam equals terrorism? What religion was Timothy McVeigh? The 9/11 hijackers were almost all Saudis. Why didn’t we attack Saudi Arabia instead of Iraq? Why were the only ones allowed to fly out of the US after 9/11 Saudis? Why aren’t the protesters in this article enraged that we have Saudi gasoline in our fuel tanks?

Posted by colonelP | Report as abusive

@Pyotr,
You are compeltely correct. Anyone who disagrees with a liberal is labeled extreme.

A TIME poll aptly described ‘Majority Oppose Mosque’
http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/ 0,8599,2011799,00.html

so is the majority of America extreme now? Is the majority if America islamopobes? No, is the correct answer in case you libs were wondering.

Posted by BHOlied | Report as abusive

Islam is a THEOCRACY. Islam practices archaic laws and rules that give them the ultimate judicial legal right to execute, flog or incarcerates any person who dares to defy their Islamic faith or values or by a simple accusations of blasphemy a just cause for beheading individuals. Thiers is a world of no separation of the Religion and State. To Islamic countries there is no support of any Individual Human Rights especially those of female genders.

A country that does not have “separation of church and state” is a THEOCRACY. In a theocracy, there is no secular government, and religion is part of every aspect of life. For example, a theocracy has one established religion and citizens are expected to belong to it, observe its holy days, follow its dress codes and dietary laws, etc. The legal system in a theocracy is usually run by the clergy, using their religion’s scriptures for guidance. Some theocracies allow minority faiths, but do not give them the same rights, while other theocracies forbid the observance of minority religions entirely, and may even punish non-believers (Infidels).

This is the origin of Islam a THEOCRACY. To call it anything else is absurd and arrogant by believers and followers of Islam and the deceived general public of freedom of religion principals… The world defending the constitutionality rights of free religion are completely misinformed about Islamic Governments who manipulate religious dogma to escape and prevent criminal persecution by the Worlds Court.!!

Islam must change with the times from within itself. The power base of the legal system in a theocracy is usually run by the clergy and or appointed and anointed religious leaders’, Kings and Government head of state, using their religion’s scriptures for guidance. Therefore, the argument of the general free thinking public on freedom of religion principals is not a factor in dealing with Islam. A THEOCRACY already has the ultimate power and complete freedom of religion.

And with worldwide Incubators like Mosque, Islamic schools, Community Centers or any other public gathering place is for teaching their young children. These young students of Islam taught in Mosques, Islamic schools, Community Centers or any other public gathering place are not distinguished by monetary status. They are all mentally trained and susceptible to homicidal manipulation of their maniacal Ayatollahs, Mullahs, Imams, Islamic teachers and Islamic government leaders. A religious manipulation and education that begins from the time they begin to walk, talk, read and breathe. ….. Islam (THEOCRACY) will never change nor will it give up its Power in governments and its power over a nation of followers..!!!

Ironically ..!!
Freedom of religious principals and liberty does not exist in Islam…
The argument of the same general free thinking public in the world defending the freedom of religion principals and liberty would be subjugated to incarceration, flogging, hanging, stoning to death or given the “only” other option. Which is Convert?.. Convert to Islam and the teachings of Mohammad or brutally dying in an Islamic State (THEOCRACY).

Posted by muggle2 | Report as abusive

Just a nice, white, British guy (living in NYC), writing to say: have any of you actually spent time getting to know any Muslims? Really: they’re just people! They have kids, some of them pray, they like music, they worry about paying their rent, they fight with their wives, they watch TV. The only difference is that, if they live in America, when they watch TV, they feel like because they are brown and practice a different faith, that a huge portion of vicious, slathering, self-righteous morons that are ostensibly their fellow citizens wish them harm!! Worst still, their own country seems willing to actually “debate” the details of this plain-faced bigotry in the press!?! For most of the rest of the world, encountering the public “debate” in America about this – and too many other things – is like being transported back to the 16th century! You’re the self-declared “leader of the free world”, but your radio shows sound like the lead up to the stupidest kind of medieval religious war. You get that this is why the world sees you as a nation of violent idiots, right? People: go hang out with some Muslims in your neighborhood: they’re really just Americans…the ones I know are kind, thoughtful and a lot of fun. Can’t believe it’s necessary to even say this.

Posted by cancon | Report as abusive

Wow, grew up in Europe, but am American… and from many of the comments I am reading I see little knowledge of your own American history…which includes being European for the ones who doubt of my sincerity… First of all, recall that the Templars were allowed and encouraged to spill the blood of the infidels in the name of God few centuries ago, so it appears that Christians were as much terrorists as Al-Queda today. Secondly, recall that during WW2, the nation with the biggest concentration camps was in the US, more than 200’000 first and second generations Japanese were taken their civil rights away, talking about democracy. Third, recall, that we, my fellowship citizens, as country, voted for the biggest mass murderer of the past decade… yes, we murdered children and women in Iraq when they had nothing to do with 9/11… So, instead of blaming and accusing and assuming without any further knowledge or our own past, do not judge one the spread religion on this planet. Our American past is full of blood, and yet we still find a way to accuse others, this is not right. We shall lead by example and righteousness, which includes protecting our Founding Fathers’Constitution…and its 1st amendement “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.”

Posted by yeppp | Report as abusive

The problem with Islam is that it spares no one. I am not an American, I am a Hindu from India, our religion allows us to worship anyone and anything we desire. Hindus, Buddhists, Sikhs have suffered greatly at the hands of Islam. The problem with Islam is that a) they don’t tolerate any thing other than what their Koran tells them, b) they believe in the concept of a Muslim “Ummah”, Islam spanning countries and continents.And that is what they want to establish. An Islamic caliphate. No one listens to moderate muslims. America is facing a throwback religion that refuses to progress with the times. They still operate on 7th century AD rules.

Posted by mundraguda | Report as abusive

McVeigh was an avowed atheist. As were all the leaders of communist dictatorships.

Posted by Pyotr | Report as abusive

It’s comments like some of the above which really bring home to one just how mind-bogglingly civilised the Ottomans were when they refused to destroy Hagia Sophia. I used to think they were mere centuries ahead of their time. Now I see that even now we haven’t caught up.

Posted by Ian_Kemmish | Report as abusive

All religions have their drawbacks and most people forget is context. Every religion has come into being in a different context under different pressures. Islam’s was one for unifying nomadic tribes. Islam’s only flaw is that it promotes faith over state which in the larger picture unifies all Muslims but then makes loyalty to the state a Dilemma. But this feeling has eroded as the newer generations have found little value to this dogma as Islam is more and more seen as a faith as opposed to a unifier. The laws and edicts that get Islam vilified are those that have been interpreted by men and used to cement power for men. It would be a grave injustice to tar everybody with the same brush and would bring back the feeling that Muslims should stick with Muslims. The reality is that a great many people are not violent and are in search of what most human beings want on earth, the good life.
Those who feel that they learn about religion through one incident need to remember this blame game can be extended to centuries before and you can always find some one incident by specific individuals in each religion done in its name, that will horrify you as to what religion can do. There is no religion in the world that is bereft of blood on their hands.
Fear pushes people to do horrific and stupid things. By creating fear around the Muslim community the solution is not going to be found. Also the principal strategy of terrorism is not going to benefit Islam in the long run. There is no way the world will bow and convert to Islam as a whole!! This is a fact

Posted by interrupts | Report as abusive

To all those who mention Timothy McVeigh, you are blind dumb fools. Pretty sure he was on his own and there aren’t branches of his organization blowing up government buildings all around the world.

No, BUT, there are Muslims murdering muslims in city markets all over the world. I guess that fact makes me extreme for saying it, my bad…

Posted by BHOlied | Report as abusive

Hey Bernd, were you a member of Jourolist? Had to ask!

Posted by BHOlied | Report as abusive

@Pyotr
You’re ignoring the main point of my post. I’m not saying that any complete group is anything. I’m saying the extremists in all groups are the problem. I’m sure there are people who oppose the community center for legitimate reasons. But the people who speak with hate and march with signs that betray their bigotry should not be considered a part of this debate. They are hurting their own argument, and America in the process.

You, for example, have made some very broad accusations about things which you claim are taking place in the United States and abroad. As these are your assertions, you have a burden of proof before we can actually discuss the issue. Could you link to some reliable sources on the issues you’re bringing up?

I don’t want this to be a liberal vs. conservative issue, or any other them vs. us. We’re all Americans (or, if you’re not America, we are all citizens of the world). We will all succeed or fail together. The purpose of these debates should not be to prove each other wrong. It should be to explore the information (and perhaps our morals) to determine what the best solution is.

Posted by TrueIronPatriot | Report as abusive

If all muslims = evil terrorist, then how come ALL 1.7 BILLION, or heck I’ll give you the benefit, how come HALF of the worlds muslims, aren’t doing their utmost “religious duty” waging war on us?

If they were,then those who “know all they need to know…” would be on to something.

As it stands now you haters are simply talking out of your arses since currently billion+ Muslim’s aren’t carrying out their [according to your belief] religious duty by chanting “Allah…” and lobbing RPG’s every-which-way.

Posted by aahari | Report as abusive

Yes there is violence in ISLAM. But, I suggest you consider Torquemada before you throw too many stones at anyone else.

That being said, this is America. We have a Constitution (Does anybody remember that?) (Anybody in Congress remember that—Nah) that GUARANTEES FREEDOM OF RELIGION!!! AND FREEDOM OF ASSEMBLY!!!

Anyone who opposes the RIGHT of Islams to build that mosque is effectively a traitor to the ideals this country was founded on, and I strongly suggest you move to to Myanmar where you’ll fit in better. Sure, building a mosque there is potentially incendiary and probably not a smart idea, but it is a legal right and the problem with with the bigots that ignore the law. Do we really want to degeneration into “Mcarthy-ism” again?

Posted by dhiorth | Report as abusive

Honestly, do people think that the American system of government is so weak that it could be overtaken by Muslims and their Islamic practices? It’s completely absurd. Why is this even a debate? Freedom of religion is protected under the first amendment.

Posted by dbapozer | Report as abusive

Ian_Kemmish, my apologies if I am missing the ‘tounge-and-cheek’ in your comment, but are you really suggesting that Muslims are more civilized than non-Muslims, using as an argument: when Muslims conquered Constantinople they chose to steel and convert Hagia Sophia into a mosque, rather than destroying it? … and then of course went about the city raping and pillaging old school until everyone in the city was dead or enslaved …

Posted by Frenchy1 | Report as abusive

Judging my many of the anti-Islam posts, you guys should realize its just flavor of the month. Christians have killed millions in an organized manner from animists in Africa, to Hindus to India, to Mayans in South America, to the Jews in Germany and looks like they are gearing up to do the same to Islam.

I think the only honest answer is all old testament religions are corrupting, evil and a vehicle to kill non believers by there extremist followers. They inherently define their religions by believing in a prophet – not in the goodness of people. All I need to know about Christianity and Islam is the total death tolls they’ve racked up for the last 1500 years: Millions upon millions. And how both say they are peaceful religions – please.

Posted by John2244 | Report as abusive

All these anti-Islam extremists seem to be well organized and very well financed. It appears that there is a very powerful lobby in the United States that influences politicians, the media, academia, opinion-makers, movie-makers, etc, and that is interested in presenting Islam and anything even remotely associated with Islam in the worst possible light. This wealthy lobby works secretively and has for years infiltrated American culture and shaped American views. Most politicians are afraid of confronting this lobby. One has to admire the courage of Mayor Bloomberg, an independent Jewish public figure, for standing up for real American principles.

Posted by millik | Report as abusive

Ground cero exists because of islamic extremist and U.S. extremists.

Posted by mucaro | Report as abusive

what a bunch of haters! Y cant people just realize that religion is a practice like any other, for eg cooking food. You wouldn’t hate a guy who likes to fry on a pan hating becasue you like to roast in the oven.

Aren’t the bible and the quran nearly the same books, half the references and the characters are the same too!

Fortunately the world is moving toward a homogeneous people and that is good, the present generation is more racially tolerant than the previous one, because that was the major line of divide earlier. Seems like religion is getting infamous for that now.

Posted by Shukla | Report as abusive

For any conservative person out there, I consider myself a liberal and I cannot begin to fathom who thought building a mosque near the twin towers site was a good idea. This plan just falls under the category of really bad taste. In a country where we have every right to offend and be offended, this is one of the most ill-conceived ideas in a long list of bad ideas.

As for who has killed more over time, Christians, Jews, Muslims? I think it is a moot point. For the future, I worry about the rogues who don’t have a country to worry about. Nuclear weapons have been in the arsenals of many countries for decades. They haven’t been used because of Mutually Assured Destruction. But country-less terrorist groups have no geographical allegiances. That is a scary, scary thing.

Posted by tangostar98 | Report as abusive

“Those who preach that the U.S. is waging war on Islam itself, and terror acts are therefore a form of self-defense, can argue that Christian soldiers have been killing Muslims through history, from the Crusades to the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.”
*Little known fact Mr. Debussman – 200 years before the first Christian Crusade, the “Profit” Mohammad was waging his own Crusade on the lands surrounding Arabia. The Christian Crusade was in response of Muslims invading their holy land. Islam is by definition a violent, aggressive religion.
Now, I’m a man of science and KNOW that there’s no such thing as God, Allah, the Boogie Man, etc. I believe in everyone’s right to practice whatever they want in their own time. I also firmly believe in the right to build WHATEVER THE HELL YOU WANT on private property. I couldn’t care less about its proximity to the World Trade Center site.
But, Mr. Debussman… please look at the facts and don’t spin this. Americans have every right to fear Islam. I couldn’t imagine an Islam-centric world. The Western-centric world we live in is oppressive enough for me.

Posted by the_sconnie | Report as abusive

ah. freedom. i love the ability to say whatever i want, and i hope you all do too.

Posted by RailBended | Report as abusive

Mr. Debusmann’s article is a great disservice to the reader. True, there are many Muslims who are “moderates” or modern Capitalists, and, arguably, should be treated (or at least thought about) differently than the crazy terrorist crowd. The trouble is that you can’t tell the “moderates” from the ones that are driving the quest for world domination.

The key point, however, is that while there are moderate Muslims, there is NO moderate Islam. Mohammed set it all up 13 centuries ago (give or take), and Islam is as unchanging, powerful and venal as ever. To learn more about it, I encourage you to read The Sword of the Prophet, by Serge Trifkovic.

Islam is not just a religion. It’s also a political system and a set of laws (Sharia) that carry Draconian penalties for breaking the Muslim laws (like stoning, beheading, and bad treatment of nonbelievers, etc). It is both obfuscating and disingenuous to refer to Islam as a religion, or to interchange “Muslims” with “Islam” as Mr. Debusmann did in his article.

The 9/11 event was perfectly in keeping with the teachings of the Koran (the unabrogated portions). Islam is out to get us (all “non-believers), and they’re damn good at it.

THAT’S America’s trouble with Islam.

Posted by thbinbos | Report as abusive

TrueIronPatriot, thanks for clarifying your position.
My original take-away was that you were lumping anyone who disagrees with the mosque site as an extremist.

Here are some links you requested. Google Sharia Law in America and you’ll find many many more.

http://www.themoralliberal.com/2010/05/1 3/islamic-law-helps-illegal-couple-stay- in-u-s/

http://www.themoralliberal.com/2010/08/1 6/creeping-sharia-law-comes-to-the-gridi ron/

http://www.themoralliberal.com/2010/08/1 3/shariah-law-in-the-us-gov-paterson-off ers-to-make-islam-the-state-sponsored-re ligion-of-new-york/

Posted by Pyotr | Report as abusive

What happened to “separation of Church and State” as demanded in our constitution? Should not our politicians be made to answer for deliberately linking the issues? This should not be us versus them! This should be about seeking a solution to the problems and that solution starts with “education”. Not just of them but us too!
Islam is no more better or worse than Christianity and Islam, as much as Christianity, is splintered within into many sub-groups whose believers will not accept alternatives, the most radical of which rabidly desire to impose their own version of values upon others. The
9/11 site is a fiasco anyway! The buildings should have been replaced long ago and perhaps then the building of a mosque would not have been so scandalized. Crescents arms bands? Why not Stars of David? Why not Swastikas while you are at it?
Stop fearing others by trying to exclude them from your environment lest you divorce yourself so much from reality that you will become the other side of their same coin!
I do not mean embrace them, I mean try to understand them from an objective point of view. And that applies to all followers of all religions or beliefs.
We are citizens of the World now.. let’s act like it!

Posted by laeticus | Report as abusive

laeticus, good post.
This was the same view I held for a long time toward Islam. But it was precisely _because_ I got educated that I now resist high profile maneuvers such as the ground zero mosque. And I’m not referring to only to radical fundamentalist Islam, but the core tenants of Islam as a whole. It’s much more than a religion.

Read “While Europe Slept,” as a good starting point. It’s the crystal ball of America’s future if we don’t wake up quickly.

Posted by Pyotr | Report as abusive

Primarily, islam is more than a religion: it is also the dominant political and legal force of muslims. It overshadows everything in the life of muslims because it defines their lives, and that can not be seperated from the religious aspect. So to allow freedom of religion in this case, it also accepts the rest of the baggage associated with islam. To allow islam to intrude on America is to accept the things muslims consider part of their religion, but we here in America do not. Where do you intend to draw the line when an honor killing or some other form of islamic religious belief intrudes on America’s laws, but it is a part of muslim beliefs? In the countries that islam dominates, any intrusion on their belief system usually ends with a brutal death. Cry freedom of religion all you want to, but it is more than that. It will be an infection you are inviting into the core of America, and it will turn to pestilence eventually. The title of this article should not be Americas problem with islam. It should ask the question first: What is islams problem with the rest of the world?

Posted by Hooey | Report as abusive

Pyotr, unfortunately your primary source is heavily biased. Please locate another reference point that is not self-admitted to being devoted to certain political motivations.

Posted by TrueIronPatriot | Report as abusive

cynicalme: I lived in Muslim countries for seven years and travelled all over the Middle East and nobody ever tried to convert me. Not once.

Posted by BDebusmann | Report as abusive

According to some posts here we should blame all the Christians and Christianity because Timothy McVeigh blew up a federal building , killed hundreds and he was a Christian

We should blame Christianity because 500,000 Iraqi children died because Christians at the UN Security Counsel decided to put an embargo on Iraq

We should blame Christianity because thousands of Muslims were slaughtered in Bosnia by Christians

We should blame Christianity because millions of people died in North Africa because the Christians occupied their land by force for over 130 years.

We should blame the Jewish religion, because millions of Palestinains are suffering for decades and hundreds of thousands were killed by Jews.

Does Christianity and Judaism sound thrust worthy to you?

Should I go on..!!

Posted by Foot2010 | Report as abusive

Terroism has been around since the dawn of man. Associated it with a particular group is a bit lame, since it really is human nature. Remember that seen in “2001 A Space Oddyssey” where a monkey picked up a club and beat the next monkey to death, I would argue that was the first act of terroism. People will beat up people for whatever reason and call it Americanism, Islam, Nazism, Shiite against Sunnis, Tutsi vs Hutu…. and on and on…… The only thing that is different is that there is nuclear option now so a single person’s venom can get magnified to terrible levels. But negative groups will always exist inside of mankind. All we can do is try discuss, negotiate. If that does not work we will wield an iron fist to bring the peace. Maybe in a 1000 years we can avoid the negative and go right to peace.

Posted by freedomadvocate | Report as abusive

No one has an understanding until they understand what is to be understood.

Posted by Khal3d | Report as abusive

Isnt this quite simply a case of bad taste, an error of judgement at best, an extremely antagonistic attempt to build a bridge? As previously stated you dont need to be religious or a genius to see its clearly in poor taste considering the location and thats being polite.

Posted by renown | Report as abusive

somehow democracy began to be equated with lawlessness. also, many people started to question American view on religious freedoms. however, what’s missing from all this is the fact, that we need to separate violence from religion. most of us can’t, because in our minds Islam equals violence. more over, Islamic shaaria lows such as stoning to death, are eagerly promoted. while western countries have death punishment, it’s mainly because other life was taken away, not because of adultery. on the other hand, preachings inviting or promoting violent behavior, don’t constitute religion at all.
I agree with previous comments about western European muslims having troubles integrating into society. They also, don’t denounce violent behavior.
So, let’s not forget about 3000 people killed by ISLAMIC thugs 17 of whom came from Saudi Arabia. Let’s not forget ISLAMIC thugs chanting ‘death to America and israel’ while tower fell. Let’s remember beheadings. Let’s remember American soldiers’ bodies dragged through the streets of capital of Somalia. The list goes on and on. But, seeing how people reacted to the plan to build this mosque, planners should probably pause and ask themselves whether they would want to prey there. Or may be they have different plans. As it turns out, western European mosques are gathering places for many future terrorists. That’s why sane people are outraged.

Posted by roger7474 | Report as abusive

Mr. Debusmann, your article clearly reveals that–however much you may loathe people who claim they need to know nothing more about Islam than 9/11–your knowledge of Islam is no better. In fact, “As an example of wilful ignorance, [this article is] in a class by itself.”

I echo your words because wilful ignorance surely is one reason why an esteemed columnist for Reuters could write something like this when there exist myriad books proving that your portrayal of Islam, and its historical relations with Christian peoples, is disingenuous at best.

PLEASE, if you have not done so, educate yourself properly on Islam before you opine publicly like this. Read Serge Trifkovic’s book *The Sword of the Prophet*. Concerning this book–which completely debunks your fourth paragraph about historical data backing up assertions–one could rightly say “All I ever need to know about Islam, I learned from it.” If you want more historical proof read *The Legacy of Jihad: Islamic Holy War and the Fate of Non-Muslims*, by Dr. Andrew Bostom. Or *The Decline of Eastern Christianity Under Islam: From Jihad to Dhimmitude: Seventh-Twentieth Century*, by Bat Ye’or. There’s just no way you could write what you did having read these books.

America’s trouble with Islam is that most Americans have no idea what they’re really dealing with. Islam is not a religion as most Americans think of religion, i.e., privatized, having minimal impact on the public sphere, reflecting a total separation of church and state, etc. Rather, Islam is a social/political ideology intertwined with faith in Allah. If Islam was merely worship of Allah (like Christians worship the Triune God), there would be no problem. But true Islam seeks nothing less than world domination, the ushering in of Sharia Law, and the dhimmitude of all “non-believers”. The so-called “radical extremists” in Islam have not “hijacked a peaceful religion” but are simply zealots who are faithful to what the Koran really teaches. They are calling the millions of sleeping Muslims around the world to be faithful once again.

This is what most Americans don’t get. And since the Koran teaches “warfare tactics” such as lying (what they call “taqiyya”) in order to achieve their aims, gullible and “nice” Americans too often want to give them the benefit of the doubt and believe what Islamic leaders say about their peaceful intentions.

I fear that our country may represent the proverbial frog in the [Islamic soup] pot. Certainly we will become their food if we so ignorantly believe about them as you do in your lamentable opinion piece.

Posted by paddyinpdx | Report as abusive

What Islamic county allows Catholic or Protestant churches, Jewish synagogues, athiests, or homosexuals to practice their beliefs freely, in the open? NOT ONE.

Posted by stacylaw | Report as abusive

BTW Foot2010, Timothy McVeigh was NOT a Christian. That’s not a judgement, that’s a fact. We know this precisely because he blew up the building. That is not, as Christians know, “Spirit-controlled living.” Just because you SAY you are a Christian does not mean that you are, in fact, a Christian. Christianity is not a culture – those people calling themselves in North Africa “Christian” is not an indictment against Christianity because people of hate and bondage cannot be true Christians. The number of true Christians is far less than the statistics say.

Posted by stacylaw | Report as abusive

Because we were founded by Christians.

Posted by STORYBURNthere | Report as abusive

BHOlied: No, I wasn’t.

Posted by BDebusmann | Report as abusive

@Stacylaw question:
“What Islamic county allows Catholic or Protestant churches, Jewish synagogues, athiests, or homosexuals to practice their beliefs freely, in the open? NOT ONE.”

If you ever decide to become an informed American then you’ll lear many Islamic countries do allow the above, though I agree not ALL the above.

I will counter with the following question however:

What DEMOCRATIC nations citizenry is trying to limit personal freedom, ostracize/outlaw homosexuals and non-Christian believer to practice their beliefs freely, in the open????? “AMERICANS” like YOU!

Posted by aahari | Report as abusive

Thank you Mr. Debusmann for a very thoughtful article.

Unfortunately, I cannot enter a ‘recommend’ as I refuse to join Facebook, Twitter and the like.

Posted by Warburton | Report as abusive

To Quote the Article; “Those who preach that the U.S. is waging war on Islam itself, and terror acts are therefore a form of self-defense, can argue that Christian soldiers have been killing Muslims through history, from the Crusades to the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.”

Here, once again, is the idea of the Christians and Crusaders of early 900′s CE being somehow responsible for the actions of Muslims.

Islam/Muslims started the whole thing. Beginning in the later 400′s CE, Mohammed and the next couple generations of Muslims preached Jihad (war on non-Muslims by any method … aka terror) and the rightness of Jihad. Their outlook on the world was those areas which fall under the rule of Islam (Dar al-Islam) and those areas of the world that remain to be subjugated.

BEFORE THERE WAS ANYTHING CALLED “The CRUSADES”, By terror and by Jihad Islam was spread throughout Spain, Greece, Turkey, Hungary, parts of France, parts of Italy, the Mediterranean in general, North, Central and East Africa, the Middle East in total and much more. They brutalized and slaughtered non-Muslims by the tens and hundreds of thousands for 400 years before France fought them to a standstill. Before Spain began to force them out of Spain (a process that lasted over 200 years).

So they have switched tactics a little bit but still they are slowly increasing their grip on the non-Muslim world. This is not by accident … it is by DESIGN.

STOP FEEDING THE WORLD WITH THE GARBAGE YOU ARE SPEWING ABOUT HOW IT ALL STEMS FROM THE CRUSADES. The Crusades were a partial ANSWER to a 400 YEAR LONG TERROR CAMPAIGN.

Posted by Bay0Wulf | Report as abusive

Sorry. Need to amend my post of previously.

Islamic Jihad was preached and actively began in the mid 600′s CE, the FIRST commonly recognized Crusade started in 1095 CE. I believe that there were some others that are classified as Crusade-like endeavors beginning in the late 900′s CE.

This is STILL a more than 400 year gap in when Muslims embarked on their worldwide terror campaign and when Europe began to respond.

Posted by Bay0Wulf | Report as abusive

I think most people are confused here.

Firstly, what makes the Twin Towers Site ‘hallowed or holy ground’? If I recall correctly, those towers were called the World Trade Centre, hence they represented international trade, commerce and most likely, profit. Therefore, is America stating that it values trade, commerce and profit above all? Are we seeing the truth now – the US worships the almighty greenback? Is there unabated greed coming to light, again?

Secondly, Mecca has been deemed a holy ground and has been worshipped on for many many decades. Dont confuse a less than 10 year old hole in the ground with mecca and other places that the masses put significant religious belief into. Lest we start a new religion, one that worships international trade, commerce and profit.

Finally christianity is far from civilised and holier than thou. Just ask your nearest Irish neighbor about the Troubles. Whilst this was political in nature, there was significant religious undertones to it between the Proddy’s and the Mick’s.

Posted by PassingResident | Report as abusive

islam is an integrated religious, political, and social system…you can’t try to divorce its parts (well you can try but the fundamentalists win in the end)…adherents will blend in and cry freedom of their religion and when their numbers have swelled up (they don’t believe in contraception) they will forcefully bend systems and laws to their ideology (crying foul in the name of democracy)…unfortunate but that’s what makes islam dangerous

Posted by alsomichael | Report as abusive

George Carlin got it right when he said (paraphrasing here): “The root of all evil is organized religion…”

Posted by TimeIsAllWeHave | Report as abusive

From an atheist’s standpoint, this is truly pathetic to watch. Mankind is falling behind. I watch The Daily Show & The Colbert Report and only they truly capture the idiocy happening here. It actually makes me ashamed of being How can people be so blind? If we just didn’t give a f*** then this issue would be non-existent, as I wish religion was. Dig those words, I say them without fear of some guy with horns poking me in a** with a pitchfork. Evolve idiots.

Posted by lighthouse | Report as abusive

America’s “problem with Islam” is perhaps not quite the right title in the end. It’s “a section of American society’s problem with democracy and the Bill of Rights”… I am talking about the part of American society that loves Amendment # 2 to the detriment of the rest.
And then there are all those drama queens running around trying to get on TV or on the Internet….. Things haven’t changed, except that some of those drama queens have made it big, like Malkin, Beck and others. And they have made it big because in a country of 300 million you are bound to find a few whose brain somehow remained in their mother’s fallopian tubes.

Posted by Talleyrand | Report as abusive

Drew_MN

If you wanted to build a Christian church in Saudi Arabia, as you asked, you would not be allowed to do so because Saudi Arabia does not guarantee its citizens freedom of worship and it is an Islamic state. The government has an official religion, as opposed to the United States which does not.

So, let’s say you are a Christian, and you lived there, and you wanted to worship. Well, you couldn’t because it would be illegal.

That would be pretty terrible wouldn’t it?

Aren’t you glad you live in America, where you are allowed to worship the deity of your choice and in the way you choose?

That’s because we have federally protected freedoms and we are a tolerant society.

Posted by citizen_n | Report as abusive

Reading these posts is enough proof for me to see all religions are violently oppossed to others on some level (extremists). Belief in something has this affect on people.

Look at the level of hate that has been said in this thread and tell me people don’t have a right to be offended. Don’t beat up your neighbor just because you don’t know where to direct your anger. Do you think that only Christians were affected by the 9/11? Serious, do you think that a singular people were the only people who were affected?

By this same method of thinking one can say that the response to 9/11 (like the hate on this thread) is a clear indication of how all Christians act and behave. Are you not just adding fuel to a hate centred religious war in the making?

Why are we even measuring what religious is more violent? This was an act that people did against people. Religion just happened to be the cause this time. Next time it will be drugs, greed, lust, maybe need.

My point is people just need a reason to be violent. Pick your poison.

Posted by Darkly37 | Report as abusive

Somewhere between blind columns like this one and blogosphere headcases lie the 95% of us who merely note the following realities:

1. A phobia is an unwarranted fear. Islam’s extreme wing has blown up 17,600 or so folks around the world this year so far. Islamophobia is thus an oxymoron.
2. In the UK after 7/7 (our 9/11) we also had posters being waved. They read things like ‘Behead unbelievers’, ‘To hell with democracy’ and ‘Death to Britain’.
3. The ‘tiny minority’ mantra is nonsense. In the UK after 7/7,34% of UK Muslims under 35 told a YouGov survey they approved of overthrowing British society ‘by force if necessary’.
4. True, the majority of Islamics despise Islamists as dumb Underclass dupes….but they fellow-travel. Every debate with an Islamic group on Islamist violence begins, “Yes, but you…”.
5. The overwhelming majority of developed Christian States are liberal-democrat – or aspire to be. Not a single Islamist State anywhere on the planet is – or does.

This fruitless debate consists entirely of those in denial ignoring the realities of bigotry. As the Americans are wont to remark, Mr Debusmann – you need to get out more.
http://nbyslog.blogspot.com/2010/08/3000 0-funerals-and-wedding.html

Posted by nbywardslog | Report as abusive

Mike Bloomberg is right, but most America watch Fox News.

Posted by MaiO | Report as abusive

I do so admire the multi-cultural outlook or aspiration of much of the reader comments and I want to be part of that segment. But muslim values, with the persistance of far more than a small minority, seem hellbent on encroaching onto other society’s values and their birthrate furthers the likelihood that they may one day prevail. I don’t much care whether the feudalistic women-stoning, hand-chopping, Jew-hating, Koran-obsessive fanatical governments in the worst of the Arab states are there through the will, acquiesence or blind eye of their population. One way or another, these societies are spawning too many mad & bad people and multi-culturalism and cosmopolitanism must have its upper limit.

Posted by robalka | Report as abusive

Debusmann is unable to understand this:
Islam uses religion to achieve its political goals.
Islam uses whatever is required to eliminate naive Americans – including outbreeding and violence.
Islam has taken over Europe already it’s just not visible yet as old Europeans are still around; the young ones are all Muslims. Those few young Europeans have willingly accepted their fate and given away their countries. They got no children either, so that’s it. End of history.
Debusmann; classical natural selection has wiped you out.
America is weak, naive, obese, complacent and cannot see dangers but Islam is strong.

Posted by deltadog | Report as abusive

A Gallup survey says? You mean a survey of those that are home during the day or in the afternoon. I read this as a survey of the unemployed, quite possibly uneducated, welfare recipient that has never traveled outside the U.S. Most of us that work, or previously worked, have cell phones not home phones and we are busy during the day either working or trying to find employment again. Maybe the administration should worry about jobs and let NYC sort out it’s own zoning issues.

As for the issues in Europe Pyotr brings up an excellent point and one that needs to be discussed. I don’t think the Gallup respondents would have any idea what’s going on over there unless Oprah told them about it.

Bernd should never have brought up the Tea Party and instead should have stuck to the issue at hand. He took the discussion political and it detracted from the real discussion we should be having.

Posted by Bdy2010 | Report as abusive

The article is just nonsense. History teaches all we need to know about Islam. Jihad was the reason for the crusades, not the other way around. If left to continue their conquest, a new crusade will be required.

Posted by caretaker | Report as abusive

Deltadog is exactly right. From an historical perspective, those who do not procreate are in effect saying that their own culture is not worth preserving.

Posted by jrcarly | Report as abusive

Religions, like Christianity or Islam are not the problem. The problem is groups of people using religion as an excuse to impose their will on other groups of people. People have been imposing their will on others since the dawn of history and in all likelihood will continue to do so with or without organized religions. The objective should be to identify those individuals and groups who are committing or advocating the commission of unlawful behavior and go after them as directly as possible. The behavior is the problem not whatever cause or religion they use to mask it’s true purpose. If any organization is advocating or committing unlawful behavior it should be outlawed whether it is secular or religious. Islam is not an organization but a category of people who share a common set of beliefs.

Posted by jrcarly | Report as abusive

Inergration – it’s as simple as that.
Where cultures don’t integrate, schism, mistrust and hatred prosper – always has done, always will do.
It’s a human condition, and history proves this – seen any Neanderthals lately?

Posted by raftspider | Report as abusive

Not that it is likely to change the minds of any of the anti-Islam commenters, but here is a quick guide to myths about mosques which just might, a little.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/con tent/article/2010/08/26/AR2010082605510. html

Myth #2:

Mosques try to spread sharia law in the United States.

In Islam, sharia (“the Way” to God) theoretically governs every human act. But Muslims do not agree on what sharia says; there is no one sharia book of laws. Most mosques in America do not teach Islamic law for a simple reason: It’s too complicated for the average believer and even for some imams.
Islamic law includes not only the Koran and the Sunna (the traditions of the prophet Muhammad) but also great bodies of arcane legal rulings and pedantic scholarly interpretations. If mosques forced Islamic law upon their congregants, most Muslims would probably leave — just as most Christians might walk out of the pews if preachers gave sermons exclusively on Saint Augustine, canon law and Greek grammar. Instead, mosques study the Koran and the Sunna and how the principles and stories in those sacred texts apply to their everyday lives.

Posted by Komment | Report as abusive

Not that it is likely to change the minds of any of the anti-Islam commenters, but here is a quick guide to myths about mosques which just might, a little.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/con tent/article/2010/08/26/AR2010082605510. html

Myth #2:

Mosques try to spread sharia law in the United States.

In Islam, sharia (“the Way” to God) theoretically governs every human act. But Muslims do not agree on what sharia says; there is no one sharia book of laws. Most mosques in America do not teach Islamic law for a simple reason: It’s too complicated for the average believer and even for some imams.
Islamic law includes not only the Koran and the Sunna (the traditions of the prophet Muhammad) but also great bodies of arcane legal rulings and pedantic scholarly interpretations. If mosques forced Islamic law upon their congregants, most Muslims would probably leave — just as most Christians might walk out of the pews if preachers gave sermons exclusively on Saint Augustine, canon law and Greek grammar. Instead, mosques study the Koran and the Sunna and how the principles and stories in those sacred texts apply to their everyday lives.

Posted by Komment | Report as abusive

The main issue that people don’t understand about Islam and Islamic Sharia (and Sharia means islamic rules, not the way to god), it’s that it doesn’t apply in a country where it is not applied! As a muslim, i am not forced to implemend the sharia rule in a non muslim country applying diffrent set of rules, regardless of what these sets of rules are. What does this mean? it means with the absence of a muslim ruler and Sharia, a muslim is only asked to implemend the 5 main rules of islam. Namely, beleiving that there is only one god and that Mohamed PBUH is his messinger, praying, paying Zakat (basically, it’s your average tax), fasting on the month of Ramadan and Attending the holy trip of Hajj to Mecca (which is only mandatory if you can afford the trip).
And mosques are like churches. they have sacret areas and have rules to attend them. And everybody is welcomed to enter, no religion, no race, no social standing. that’s the beauty of Islam. Nothing that i have listed indicates a terror factory. the possibility of producing a terrorist doesn’t come from religion, all of the major religeons of the world advocate for peace and harmony. However, it’s the extemist of the world and their unwillingness to listen to the other that is the main creator of terrorism around the world. and it’s our job to keep the communication channels open.

Posted by Sanioura | Report as abusive

Bernd, your point of view is always interesting.. than you for your fresh toughts!!

Posted by Bundesagent | Report as abusive

Prior to this statement “All I ever need to know about Islam, I learned on 9/11”, there was a similar statement “All I ever need to know about Christianity, I learned in 1838-1839”, or some sentiments like that, bellowed by some Cherokee Indians.

Obviously those Cherokee Indians, as much as they were saddened and outraged, and rightly so, by the wrongs they endured in 1838-1839, hadn’t learnt the whole Christianity, or in larger sense, the western civilization. Likely neither have the shouters today regarding Islam.

Posted by Philo33 | Report as abusive

Thanks for a very balanced article!

Posted by Diz | Report as abusive

I think it is not a right behaviour to discuss people’s belief.In the america i see that people are afraid of people who are not american,no matter whoever they are.
Islam is not a danger for america.Islam does not rule to change people’s mind by using hidden methods which american people indict mosques for.Please before you comment on something try to learn about it deeply.The religion of islam never needs people who do not believe deeply or believe by other’s directions.Islam says:
Tell them about islam,leave them to think about it,if they believe hug them as brother,if no leave them do whatever they want.This is that simple.
thanks.

Posted by professionalist | Report as abusive

This is not the time for muslims to make more mosques in USA, which is bedevilled. The country is now a permanent residece for the evil. George W left the white house but the evil is still living in there. May God have mercy on this Nation, which is certainly going down the route of once great ROME. Let us hope that the USA leaves other spots in the world including Japan, Korea and not to forget Iraq and Afghanistan. Let us then hope that more houses of God would be built in the vacated territories.
Rex Minor

Posted by pakistan | Report as abusive

Bernd, thoughtful post? Except I see significant cherry picking in facts used to support your article. Seeing the comments of our friends and former colleagues patting you on the back behind the curtain of impartiality on Facebook really made me chuckle. Not least, you conveniently fail to remind your audience that Mr Bloomberg has been Democrat, Republican and only now is impailed on the fence of political convenience.

Isn’t this really a discussion about real estate, its all about location location location!
How about we transpose the Ground Zero Mosque discussion to Buenos Aires and envision a Mosque rising within two blocks of the ruins of the Amia building? Wouldn’t that have been equally provocative? Actually an Islamic cultural center, “El Centro Cultural Islámico Custodio de las Dos Sagradas Mezquitas Rey Fahd” was built soon after that 1994 atrocity, and the earlier 1992 Embassy bombing. At least that mosque was located next to a predominately Catholic Jumbo supermarket, at a considerable and sufficiently conciliatory 6.8km from the AMIA bombing site (checked the distance on Google Maps). Strikes me then that the Ground Zero Mosque could reasonably be built further away, that’s what most New Yorkers and Americans appear to be asking. Is that really so intolerant?

Posted by srbarrell | Report as abusive

Any Muslim that takes the Koran or the Sunna at face value can easily justify intolerance, disrespect, and violence upon non-muslims. The religion was spread by the sword for a thousand years 634 – 1453 AD and would have taken over Western Europe had it not been for some push back by the Crusades. Islam’s recent turn to militancy is not new, not extreme and it’s not going to go away by ignoring it’s past and insisting that this is all caused by non-muslims who just need to be more ‘respectful’, ‘tolerant’ and ‘understanding’.

I haven’t heard any calls for tolerance, respect and understanding by Muslim leaders in Muslim countries towards Jews or Christians. Try entering Saudi Arabia with a Bible in your possession if you want a taste of “Muslim understanding”. If New Yorkers can deny a building permit for “Walmart” they certainly have a right to deny a “Islamic cultural center’ two blocks from Ground Zero.

All I ever needed to Know about Islam I learned from 634 AD through 2001 AD.

Posted by NilsPils | Report as abusive

I’ve observed the behaviour and words of both Muslim, Christian (and Jewish) religious groups and individuals over the past couple of decades. Most of what I’ve seen is a common thread of conflict and violence. All sides think they are right; to own this land or that land, to preach this or that, or suppress others who do not believe in what they do. Acts of suppression take many forms. From the subtle to the horrific. History proves that all religions above (and their various sub-sects) have committed atrocities. Their fanatical adherents are ruining this world and the rights of all people who believe in peace and/or secularism.

Posted by trvl | Report as abusive

Muslims throughout the world who take quran and sunnah as their guide actually teach tolerance and egalitarian values.There has been a popular notion worldwide that islam was spread by sword which is absolutely antithesis to the established facts.These and many more claims are been made repeatedly by many people across the world,i think this is a very dangerous predicament that they are setting for themselves and to the world.If we read the historical facts we come to know that because islam upholds the idea of liberty,equality and fratenity so vehementally that my people seeing these values were so much influenced by it that they accepted islam.So the crux of the matter is that even today islam is the fastest growing religion of the world and some people are leaving no stone unturned in maligning islam so that it may be perceived to be religion of dogma.

Posted by fzk | Report as abusive

If one were simply to read the ancient history then one would conclude that the clash of civilisation is bound to recur. The crusaders tried it before and they are preparing the ground work fo the repeat of a holy war against Islam. In Islam there are no holy wars, nor any justification to kill other humans. It was the crusaders who went to Jerusalem at the behest of the christian church to eliminate the barbarian muslims. The so called christians are once again on the same path, any criminal act by a muslim is associateed with Islam and any criminal act of a state to invade another muslim country is considered an innocent undertaking to free the people or to introduce democracy or protect the women? Unless we witness George W, Tony Blair and their associates being tried for war crimes, I shall hang on to my opinion of coming clash of civilisation.
Rex Minor

Posted by pakistan | Report as abusive

I wish people could really understand why God give us religion. God gave us religion so we could all live with each other through peace and equality and not to despise each other, also to live with each other through truth and JUSTICE. During George Bush Jr. he passed a lot of laws and regulations that would not be excepted by the Torah, Bible, and Quran. Capitalism that we practice today is not accepted by GOD. That is a FACT. Religion is being used for propaganda. Religion is the number 1 tool to scare people and keep people divided, and filled with hatred towards each other. As an black American shia muslim I want everyone to know I love my country and religion, but my fellow Americans we are lost in ignorance. Let me first start off by saying this Islam at one point in its early years my Prophet and his follwers were kicked out of there homeland, and were living in the open dessert for 3 years. Then one day a group of people from the city of Medina who were Jews and Christians openly invited him and his companions to live with them and to govern over them. This Is a historical fact. All three relgions lived together as One. The problem we have which we don’t understand is we are very misinformed and we are badly ignorant.During George Bush Jr. term he passed a lot of regulation and laws no Prophet or Jesus Christ would except nor Prophet Musa. For one example the interest rate that were allowed on home mortgages would not be accepted by God law in any religion. Second of all as far as the Taliban and Al-Qedia anyone who Murder any individual will never
make it to paradise and destined to go to Hellfire. Quran 5:32. What i’m really trying to say is that we are being used and abused. America we as a nation have to really start Knowing and Reading for ourselves. As Americans we are not told the entire Truth.

Posted by Al-Muminun | Report as abusive

I wonder why it is that as soon as the threat of the cold war ended Islam steped up to fill the vaccum of peace?

Posted by DrReal | Report as abusive

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