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	<title>Comments on: Can China afford to downgrade the U.S.?</title>
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	<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2011/08/08/can-china-afford-to-downgrade-the-u-s/</link>
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		<title>By: ofilha</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2011/08/08/can-china-afford-to-downgrade-the-u-s/comment-page-1/#comment-35942</link>
		<dc:creator>ofilha</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Aug 2011 14:27:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/?p=9825#comment-35942</guid>
		<description>I think the argument follows the common complacency and linear thinking of most western scholars.  China could use its reserves to bring down the US, yes, the problem is that the author is thinking not like the Chinese but like a westerner with lots to protect.  If things go sour what&#039;s left for the Chinese, hold our worthless dollars?  
I think a bit of dialects might help; and history.  Technological supremacy is no longer in the hands of a few rich countries that by the way became that way through colonialism and the benefits of being the only country standing with a built up economy after WWII.
Things are changing and while the author makes very good points, they only make sense if one puts visors on and only sees what is only in front of one&#039;s eyes.  He seems to ignore the great damage that Americans themselves have been making to their own country.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think the argument follows the common complacency and linear thinking of most western scholars.  China could use its reserves to bring down the US, yes, the problem is that the author is thinking not like the Chinese but like a westerner with lots to protect.  If things go sour what&#8217;s left for the Chinese, hold our worthless dollars?<br />
I think a bit of dialects might help; and history.  Technological supremacy is no longer in the hands of a few rich countries that by the way became that way through colonialism and the benefits of being the only country standing with a built up economy after WWII.<br />
Things are changing and while the author makes very good points, they only make sense if one puts visors on and only sees what is only in front of one&#8217;s eyes.  He seems to ignore the great damage that Americans themselves have been making to their own country.</p>
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		<title>By: bailong80</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2011/08/08/can-china-afford-to-downgrade-the-u-s/comment-page-1/#comment-35934</link>
		<dc:creator>bailong80</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Aug 2011 11:50:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/?p=9825#comment-35934</guid>
		<description>Don&#039;t listen to these comments.  It is a bunch of &#039;Wu-Mao&#039;.  In case your not familiar, Wu-Maos are Chinese netizens that are paid 5 Mao (hence the name in Chinese pinyin - Wu Mao) to write pro-Party propaganda on foreign news outlets websites, commentary sections, etc.  Since 5 mao is just a few cents, you will notice how many of their comments are boiler-plate responses that often have little to do with the actual article being commented on.  It is most obvious when you see comments fashioned with numerical point-by-point argumentative outlines.  This way the author...err...Wu-Mao...can cut-paste and tinker to add quantity and therefore get paid more.

Don&#039;t get me wrong.  This is not intended to be negative in anyway, as I have lived in China for years, and I greatly admire the people and culture.  The nationalism that is stoked by the Party, and the use of nationalism as a political mandate is just not right and it creates friction, ugliness, and it really does nothing to address the fact that we are all in this together and that world is only getting smaller.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Don&#8217;t listen to these comments.  It is a bunch of &#8216;Wu-Mao&#8217;.  In case your not familiar, Wu-Maos are Chinese netizens that are paid 5 Mao (hence the name in Chinese pinyin &#8211; Wu Mao) to write pro-Party propaganda on foreign news outlets websites, commentary sections, etc.  Since 5 mao is just a few cents, you will notice how many of their comments are boiler-plate responses that often have little to do with the actual article being commented on.  It is most obvious when you see comments fashioned with numerical point-by-point argumentative outlines.  This way the author&#8230;err&#8230;Wu-Mao&#8230;can cut-paste and tinker to add quantity and therefore get paid more.</p>
<p>Don&#8217;t get me wrong.  This is not intended to be negative in anyway, as I have lived in China for years, and I greatly admire the people and culture.  The nationalism that is stoked by the Party, and the use of nationalism as a political mandate is just not right and it creates friction, ugliness, and it really does nothing to address the fact that we are all in this together and that world is only getting smaller.</p>
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		<title>By: dsurte66</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2011/08/08/can-china-afford-to-downgrade-the-u-s/comment-page-1/#comment-35928</link>
		<dc:creator>dsurte66</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Aug 2011 09:41:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/?p=9825#comment-35928</guid>
		<description>While the Chinese are having their moment of schadenfreude over USA&#039;s mishaps it is pretty obvious that they do not want to see it implode. With trillions invested in the US they cannot afford to. The question for the Chinese is, was it a tactical error to invest so much in the US? Did they not remember the adage about debt? If you owe $100 the bank owns you but if you owe billions then you own the bank. 
The US has not acquitted itself well in its place in the world with the antics of their politicians especially the ideologues. Now the credit downgrade is a blow to the American psyche as they&#039;re no longer apart of the premier AAA creditors. Not that S &amp; P&#039;s record is beyond approach, with their questionable advice leading up to the collapse of Lehmanns.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While the Chinese are having their moment of schadenfreude over USA&#8217;s mishaps it is pretty obvious that they do not want to see it implode. With trillions invested in the US they cannot afford to. The question for the Chinese is, was it a tactical error to invest so much in the US? Did they not remember the adage about debt? If you owe $100 the bank owns you but if you owe billions then you own the bank.<br />
The US has not acquitted itself well in its place in the world with the antics of their politicians especially the ideologues. Now the credit downgrade is a blow to the American psyche as they&#8217;re no longer apart of the premier AAA creditors. Not that S &#038; P&#8217;s record is beyond approach, with their questionable advice leading up to the collapse of Lehmanns.</p>
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		<title>By: PapaDisco</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2011/08/08/can-china-afford-to-downgrade-the-u-s/comment-page-1/#comment-35926</link>
		<dc:creator>PapaDisco</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Aug 2011 09:10:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/?p=9825#comment-35926</guid>
		<description>What a bunch of hypocrites, the Chinese should be careful what they wish for.  All that junk the U.S. buys from them is financed by the debt they criticize.

Furthermore, who&#039;s their biggest FOOD source?  The U.S.  In an economic war of dumped T-Bills versus canceled wheat contracts who&#039;s going to win?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What a bunch of hypocrites, the Chinese should be careful what they wish for.  All that junk the U.S. buys from them is financed by the debt they criticize.</p>
<p>Furthermore, who&#8217;s their biggest FOOD source?  The U.S.  In an economic war of dumped T-Bills versus canceled wheat contracts who&#8217;s going to win?</p>
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		<title>By: Neurochuck</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2011/08/08/can-china-afford-to-downgrade-the-u-s/comment-page-1/#comment-35925</link>
		<dc:creator>Neurochuck</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Aug 2011 07:15:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/?p=9825#comment-35925</guid>
		<description>The world seems to be moving more to a multilateral mesh, with regional economically significant countries like China, India, Brazil, Turkey, and some regional integration. 
Americans seem to think in Cold War, two camps, terms. &quot;With us, or agin us&quot; - so they got (past tense) to lead a big gang.
Most of what is said about China and economic relations could be said about the Asian region in general, of which China makes up about 40% in population and GDP. And Japan and South Koreans have already taken the export oriented, high technology, development path. To the cost of uncompetitive American manufacturing, 30 years ago.
Maybe Americans should ask why they have been left behind by Germany, rather than obsess about lower wage competitiveness.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The world seems to be moving more to a multilateral mesh, with regional economically significant countries like China, India, Brazil, Turkey, and some regional integration.<br />
Americans seem to think in Cold War, two camps, terms. &#8220;With us, or agin us&#8221; &#8211; so they got (past tense) to lead a big gang.<br />
Most of what is said about China and economic relations could be said about the Asian region in general, of which China makes up about 40% in population and GDP. And Japan and South Koreans have already taken the export oriented, high technology, development path. To the cost of uncompetitive American manufacturing, 30 years ago.<br />
Maybe Americans should ask why they have been left behind by Germany, rather than obsess about lower wage competitiveness.</p>
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		<title>By: Discovery451</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2011/08/08/can-china-afford-to-downgrade-the-u-s/comment-page-1/#comment-35914</link>
		<dc:creator>Discovery451</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Aug 2011 23:50:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/?p=9825#comment-35914</guid>
		<description>Peak oil will change the world before 2020. Globalized trade will nearly cease, as the cost of crude oil goes to the Moon. America and Mexico will become major manufacturing countries again. The majority of imports will consist of things the USA just doesn&#039;t have much of, like oil, chromium, and platinum.
China will soon be the fastest aging country on Earth. Indian and US warships now routinely visit Vietnam. Rich Australia is planning to construct huge, modern military bases along their Northern Coast. They aren&#039;t to keep out a few migrant fishing boats.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Peak oil will change the world before 2020. Globalized trade will nearly cease, as the cost of crude oil goes to the Moon. America and Mexico will become major manufacturing countries again. The majority of imports will consist of things the USA just doesn&#8217;t have much of, like oil, chromium, and platinum.<br />
China will soon be the fastest aging country on Earth. Indian and US warships now routinely visit Vietnam. Rich Australia is planning to construct huge, modern military bases along their Northern Coast. They aren&#8217;t to keep out a few migrant fishing boats.</p>
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		<title>By: Wederson</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2011/08/08/can-china-afford-to-downgrade-the-u-s/comment-page-1/#comment-35912</link>
		<dc:creator>Wederson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Aug 2011 22:59:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/?p=9825#comment-35912</guid>
		<description>Just sour grapes!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just sour grapes!</p>
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		<title>By: deemerk</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2011/08/08/can-china-afford-to-downgrade-the-u-s/comment-page-1/#comment-35910</link>
		<dc:creator>deemerk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Aug 2011 22:41:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/?p=9825#comment-35910</guid>
		<description>This thinker is spot on:

China and the USA are inextricably linked for the next 30-50 years. For years China has manipulated the yen at the expense of the dollar; the short term advantage being to create a massive market share for Chinese made goods.  Unfortunately, Chinese imports to the USA and Europe are coming to a not so soft landing halt. Many Taiwanese and American manufacturers have already shifted production away from China and to other less expensive countries.

China will soon have its own problem of tremendous lay-offs as exports dwindle, the dollar cheapens, and Chinese goods become too expensive as they face pay cost increases, more demands from workers, and soaring raw materials costs.

The US has some alternatives, including re-energizing its own manufacturing base at home as the dollar weakens, shifting purchasing away from China towards India and other developing nations.

China has made its own bed, as has the U. S., but dollar devaluation may be just the thing needed to level the playing field and increase employment at home for an export market.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This thinker is spot on:</p>
<p>China and the USA are inextricably linked for the next 30-50 years. For years China has manipulated the yen at the expense of the dollar; the short term advantage being to create a massive market share for Chinese made goods.  Unfortunately, Chinese imports to the USA and Europe are coming to a not so soft landing halt. Many Taiwanese and American manufacturers have already shifted production away from China and to other less expensive countries.</p>
<p>China will soon have its own problem of tremendous lay-offs as exports dwindle, the dollar cheapens, and Chinese goods become too expensive as they face pay cost increases, more demands from workers, and soaring raw materials costs.</p>
<p>The US has some alternatives, including re-energizing its own manufacturing base at home as the dollar weakens, shifting purchasing away from China towards India and other developing nations.</p>
<p>China has made its own bed, as has the U. S., but dollar devaluation may be just the thing needed to level the playing field and increase employment at home for an export market.</p>
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		<title>By: RDH</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2011/08/08/can-china-afford-to-downgrade-the-u-s/comment-page-1/#comment-35903</link>
		<dc:creator>RDH</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Aug 2011 20:25:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/?p=9825#comment-35903</guid>
		<description>so whos really winning this economic war?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>so whos really winning this economic war?</p>
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		<title>By: ZombieMother</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2011/08/08/can-china-afford-to-downgrade-the-u-s/comment-page-1/#comment-35898</link>
		<dc:creator>ZombieMother</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Aug 2011 19:33:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/?p=9825#comment-35898</guid>
		<description>The level of dialogue in this comments section is so low.

1. The US is not going to run out of oil, or even be priced out of the energy market.  The US has a much higher energy efficiency than China or India (China, in fact, uses MORE energy than the US to produce LESS output).  Not to mention, the US&#039;s oil reserves - when one accounts for the rapidly developing shale market - are larger than Saudi Arabia and Russia combined.

2. Many act as if Chinese have &quot;savings for a rainy day,&quot; but this is not how things work.  China runs an account surplus because it exports massive amounts of capital through purchases of assets like UST bonds; it is not investing in these assets because it has tons of &quot;free&quot; money lying around, but because it runs a trade policy that takes money AWAY from households in order to keep interest and exchange rates down, so as to keep export prices artificially competitive.

3. If China dumped the USD or UST, that&#039;s good!  That means a lower trade deficit for the US and more jobs in the export industry.  It also means a more balanced US economy, with more manufacturing and investment to go along with consumption.  The USD as global reserve currency is a burden, as it lets surplus countries exploit the US market to an absurd degree, and it screws up US finances by making borrowing too easy.

4. Sure, China can invest its savings in gold.  That will work out smoothly, seeing as how the combined value of all the gold ever mined ($6 trillion) is less than the value of the US bond market, or even the Japanese bond market.  Gold, like other commodities, is also prone to wild fluctuations in value.

5. Peter Schiff is clueless as usual.  An appreciation of the yuan means that unemployment rises as the export industry dries up.  It also means that China would have to confront its investment-driven growth model, which has squandered resources for decades.  The over-promotion of investment (HSR, buildings and other construction) is a major reason that the Chinese state is rich while its people are poor, and a good explanation for why consumption in China (like consumption in post-1990 Japan) is so anemic relative to its GDP.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The level of dialogue in this comments section is so low.</p>
<p>1. The US is not going to run out of oil, or even be priced out of the energy market.  The US has a much higher energy efficiency than China or India (China, in fact, uses MORE energy than the US to produce LESS output).  Not to mention, the US&#8217;s oil reserves &#8211; when one accounts for the rapidly developing shale market &#8211; are larger than Saudi Arabia and Russia combined.</p>
<p>2. Many act as if Chinese have &#8220;savings for a rainy day,&#8221; but this is not how things work.  China runs an account surplus because it exports massive amounts of capital through purchases of assets like UST bonds; it is not investing in these assets because it has tons of &#8220;free&#8221; money lying around, but because it runs a trade policy that takes money AWAY from households in order to keep interest and exchange rates down, so as to keep export prices artificially competitive.</p>
<p>3. If China dumped the USD or UST, that&#8217;s good!  That means a lower trade deficit for the US and more jobs in the export industry.  It also means a more balanced US economy, with more manufacturing and investment to go along with consumption.  The USD as global reserve currency is a burden, as it lets surplus countries exploit the US market to an absurd degree, and it screws up US finances by making borrowing too easy.</p>
<p>4. Sure, China can invest its savings in gold.  That will work out smoothly, seeing as how the combined value of all the gold ever mined ($6 trillion) is less than the value of the US bond market, or even the Japanese bond market.  Gold, like other commodities, is also prone to wild fluctuations in value.</p>
<p>5. Peter Schiff is clueless as usual.  An appreciation of the yuan means that unemployment rises as the export industry dries up.  It also means that China would have to confront its investment-driven growth model, which has squandered resources for decades.  The over-promotion of investment (HSR, buildings and other construction) is a major reason that the Chinese state is rich while its people are poor, and a good explanation for why consumption in China (like consumption in post-1990 Japan) is so anemic relative to its GDP.</p>
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