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	<title>Comments on: Ryan’s budget frames 2012 election around Medicare</title>
	<atom:link href="http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2012/03/23/ryan%E2%80%99s-budget-frames-2012-election-around-medicare/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2012/03/23/ryan%e2%80%99s-budget-frames-2012-election-around-medicare/</link>
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		<title>By: ThomasW</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2012/03/23/ryan%e2%80%99s-budget-frames-2012-election-around-medicare/comment-page-1/#comment-42923</link>
		<dc:creator>ThomasW</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Apr 2012 04:48:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/?p=12260#comment-42923</guid>
		<description>It was the Republicans, starting with Reagan, who enacted &#039;unfunded tax cuts&#039; &amp; began running up the current US deficit.

http://advisorperspectives.com/dshort/updates/Debt-Taxes-and-Politics.php

See how the graph starts rising steeply from 1981, when Reagan introduced &#039;supply-side economics&#039; -- the only exception being Clinton, who brought the budget back to surplus &amp; presided over an economic boom.

To this day, G.O.P candidates are pushing &#039;tax cuts&#039;. It&#039;s dishonest &amp; un-American to complain about the deficit &amp; the economy, while blocking Democratic efforts to improve it. Remember the public option? That would have done more to bring down costs &amp; provide a cheaper option, than any other recent suggestion.

Republicans attacked &amp; blocked it.

Don&#039;t forget that healthcare is cheaper (half the price) &amp; better in Canada, France, Sweden &amp; half-a-dozen other European countries. Many of them with single-payer or public options.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It was the Republicans, starting with Reagan, who enacted &#8216;unfunded tax cuts&#8217; &#038; began running up the current US deficit.</p>
<p><a href='http://advisorperspectives.com/dshort/updates/Debt-Taxes-and-Politics.php'>http://advisorperspectives.com/dshort/up dates/Debt-Taxes-and-Politics.php</a></p>
<p>See how the graph starts rising steeply from 1981, when Reagan introduced &#8216;supply-side economics&#8217; &#8212; the only exception being Clinton, who brought the budget back to surplus &#038; presided over an economic boom.</p>
<p>To this day, G.O.P candidates are pushing &#8216;tax cuts&#8217;. It&#8217;s dishonest &#038; un-American to complain about the deficit &#038; the economy, while blocking Democratic efforts to improve it. Remember the public option? That would have done more to bring down costs &#038; provide a cheaper option, than any other recent suggestion.</p>
<p>Republicans attacked &#038; blocked it.</p>
<p>Don&#8217;t forget that healthcare is cheaper (half the price) &#038; better in Canada, France, Sweden &#038; half-a-dozen other European countries. Many of them with single-payer or public options.</p>
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		<title>By: txgadfly</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2012/03/23/ryan%e2%80%99s-budget-frames-2012-election-around-medicare/comment-page-1/#comment-42514</link>
		<dc:creator>txgadfly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Mar 2012 01:18:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/?p=12260#comment-42514</guid>
		<description>Debt is debt is debt.  

Why short one creditor when you should short them all?  If America is broke, why send the bill to the American wage earner instead of the holders of all of those Treasury Bonds?  There is no reason at all.  Being bankrupt means paying your secured debt holders proportionately.

That is what is right.  There is absolutely no reason the American wage earning class, which has paid over 45% of the Federal income from taxes for decades, should get shorted more than anyone else.  Get used to it.  Wars cost money.  If you steal it and spend it, someone will likely want it repaid.  Who cares if foreigners will not lend any more money to the Federal Government?  Not me.   Now that would balance the budget.

This proposal is to steal from the weak and pay to the strong.  The reason that 90% of the population is &quot;weak&quot; is that the system is corrupt, corrupt, corrupt and the elections rigged, rigged, rigged.  If they do this, we need an entirely new government system.  Then the Constitution of 1789 will have utterly failed to deliver an electoral republic.  

What is the &quot;Defense&quot; Department defending?  The Republican and Democratic Parties?  Or the American People?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Debt is debt is debt.  </p>
<p>Why short one creditor when you should short them all?  If America is broke, why send the bill to the American wage earner instead of the holders of all of those Treasury Bonds?  There is no reason at all.  Being bankrupt means paying your secured debt holders proportionately.</p>
<p>That is what is right.  There is absolutely no reason the American wage earning class, which has paid over 45% of the Federal income from taxes for decades, should get shorted more than anyone else.  Get used to it.  Wars cost money.  If you steal it and spend it, someone will likely want it repaid.  Who cares if foreigners will not lend any more money to the Federal Government?  Not me.   Now that would balance the budget.</p>
<p>This proposal is to steal from the weak and pay to the strong.  The reason that 90% of the population is &#8220;weak&#8221; is that the system is corrupt, corrupt, corrupt and the elections rigged, rigged, rigged.  If they do this, we need an entirely new government system.  Then the Constitution of 1789 will have utterly failed to deliver an electoral republic.  </p>
<p>What is the &#8220;Defense&#8221; Department defending?  The Republican and Democratic Parties?  Or the American People?</p>
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		<title>By: Corina2012</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2012/03/23/ryan%e2%80%99s-budget-frames-2012-election-around-medicare/comment-page-1/#comment-42504</link>
		<dc:creator>Corina2012</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Mar 2012 19:40:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/?p=12260#comment-42504</guid>
		<description>So far I agree with this proposal of defining a ceiling for the Medicare benefits, and allow the patient to choose between Medicare or private health insurers. If the cost of private health insurers really goes down, this is really a good alternative.  However, given the history of rising premiums, even with the supposedly incentive of competition, I doubt that premiums will go down. Insurers always find justification to raise the rates and the customers have no choice but to swallow it. (That&#039;s why I agree with Obamacare for requiring insurers to spend only 20%, instead of 30-40%, of premiums on admin cost). This may come down eventually to a huge majority choosing Medicare, this one with cut benefits. Aside from insurer profit, the other costs, such as hospital and doctor fees, and medicine, are not addressed. I believe these are the major drivers of healthcare cost and the reason why U.S. has the highest in the world.

To balance the budget, I also agree with cutting the intelligence, defense and military budget. I believe this budget has been bloated for many decades, benefitting only the military industrial complex, and sad to say, the armed forces. There should be significant cut in the headcount as well as operating budget. If going to war, the war budget must pass the congress scrutiny first. The last 2 war cost $1.7T (borrowed) that didn&#039;t bring real benefits to the U.S. but instead more post-war costs for veteran programs, continuing medical cost, military family benefits, and interest on the borrowed money. (Ironically, the war also push the oil price from $20&#039;s to $110&#039;s and never recovered since). I believe that in this digital age, soldiers should play lesser role in the warfare, and lesser personnel is needed to maintain the military. The govt should shrink the budget for military personnel, benefits, and hardware.  The cut in military &amp; defense should be as much, if not more than medicare budget. After all, Medicare benefits many people, and we have contributed to Medicare.

And then there&#039;s the tax reform. To balance the budget, revenue should be addressed as well as expense. There&#039;s the unnecessary tax break for the wealthy. For the last 10 yrs this cost $800B, which like the wars, contributed to the huge deficit. Take note that last 5yrs, at 14% of GDP, is the lowest tax receipts since 1950. Prior to that, it was averaging 17%-18%. Corporate tax receipts was averaging 3.5% of GDP from 1950-70, has steadily decline to 2% in the 80&#039;s, further 1-1.5% in the last 2 decades. Meanwhile, U.S. population has been growing steadily as well as the senior population.

So the solution: higher tax revenue (fed/state), lower military spending, lower healthcare cost. But I must add that Education and R&amp;D shouldn&#039;t be sacrificed. Of course the devil is in the details.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So far I agree with this proposal of defining a ceiling for the Medicare benefits, and allow the patient to choose between Medicare or private health insurers. If the cost of private health insurers really goes down, this is really a good alternative.  However, given the history of rising premiums, even with the supposedly incentive of competition, I doubt that premiums will go down. Insurers always find justification to raise the rates and the customers have no choice but to swallow it. (That&#8217;s why I agree with Obamacare for requiring insurers to spend only 20%, instead of 30-40%, of premiums on admin cost). This may come down eventually to a huge majority choosing Medicare, this one with cut benefits. Aside from insurer profit, the other costs, such as hospital and doctor fees, and medicine, are not addressed. I believe these are the major drivers of healthcare cost and the reason why U.S. has the highest in the world.</p>
<p>To balance the budget, I also agree with cutting the intelligence, defense and military budget. I believe this budget has been bloated for many decades, benefitting only the military industrial complex, and sad to say, the armed forces. There should be significant cut in the headcount as well as operating budget. If going to war, the war budget must pass the congress scrutiny first. The last 2 war cost $1.7T (borrowed) that didn&#8217;t bring real benefits to the U.S. but instead more post-war costs for veteran programs, continuing medical cost, military family benefits, and interest on the borrowed money. (Ironically, the war also push the oil price from $20&#8242;s to $110&#8242;s and never recovered since). I believe that in this digital age, soldiers should play lesser role in the warfare, and lesser personnel is needed to maintain the military. The govt should shrink the budget for military personnel, benefits, and hardware.  The cut in military &#038; defense should be as much, if not more than medicare budget. After all, Medicare benefits many people, and we have contributed to Medicare.</p>
<p>And then there&#8217;s the tax reform. To balance the budget, revenue should be addressed as well as expense. There&#8217;s the unnecessary tax break for the wealthy. For the last 10 yrs this cost $800B, which like the wars, contributed to the huge deficit. Take note that last 5yrs, at 14% of GDP, is the lowest tax receipts since 1950. Prior to that, it was averaging 17%-18%. Corporate tax receipts was averaging 3.5% of GDP from 1950-70, has steadily decline to 2% in the 80&#8242;s, further 1-1.5% in the last 2 decades. Meanwhile, U.S. population has been growing steadily as well as the senior population.</p>
<p>So the solution: higher tax revenue (fed/state), lower military spending, lower healthcare cost. But I must add that Education and R&#038;D shouldn&#8217;t be sacrificed. Of course the devil is in the details.</p>
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		<title>By: edgyinchina</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2012/03/23/ryan%e2%80%99s-budget-frames-2012-election-around-medicare/comment-page-1/#comment-42498</link>
		<dc:creator>edgyinchina</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Mar 2012 09:37:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/?p=12260#comment-42498</guid>
		<description>ending all these ridiculous and trillion dollar wars would help save a lot of money, and everyone is afraid to cut the def dept...  Go where the money is .... military industrial complex....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ending all these ridiculous and trillion dollar wars would help save a lot of money, and everyone is afraid to cut the def dept&#8230;  Go where the money is &#8230;. military industrial complex&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: OneOfTheSheep</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2012/03/23/ryan%e2%80%99s-budget-frames-2012-election-around-medicare/comment-page-1/#comment-42493</link>
		<dc:creator>OneOfTheSheep</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Mar 2012 06:47:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/?p=12260#comment-42493</guid>
		<description>@wilhelm:  Ryan&#039;s proposal does NOT suggest &quot;killing off one section of the population for the benefit of another&quot;.  Google &quot;straw man fallacy&quot;.

@txgadfly:  You would lay at the feet of Ryan responsibility that rightfully belongs at the feed of congressmen of BOTH parties going back to the sixties.  It was Congress, NOT Ryan, that promised &quot;something to someone, [took] the money paid and [spent] it...&quot;, and now must re-negotiate the promises as they now exist.  

BOTH parties agree that there simply is not enough money available to keep these expanded promises in their present form.  What part of &quot;unsustainable&quot; do you not understand?

I agree that Medicare should not exclusively &quot;take the hit&quot;, but, as Willie Sutton famously said:  &quot;That&#039;s where the money is&quot;.  The journey of a thousand miles still begins with a single step.  

Ryan does not seek to &quot;not deliver what was bought&quot;.  He, to the contrary, is interested in preserving as much as possible of that in good faith by re-negotiating HOW part of it is to be delivered to future recipients.  He offers SOMTHING instead of NOTHING.

The alternative is eventual default, a reality you seek to simply deny.  The choice you desire is simply not one that exists, and so you&#039;re angry.  You&#039;re not alone, but open your eyes...it&#039;s time to quit whining and suck it up.  

America is BROKE!  Our ship of state has become a submarine and as she goes under you would have the hatches remain open!  I don&#039;t agree.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@wilhelm:  Ryan&#8217;s proposal does NOT suggest &#8220;killing off one section of the population for the benefit of another&#8221;.  Google &#8220;straw man fallacy&#8221;.</p>
<p>@txgadfly:  You would lay at the feet of Ryan responsibility that rightfully belongs at the feed of congressmen of BOTH parties going back to the sixties.  It was Congress, NOT Ryan, that promised &#8220;something to someone, [took] the money paid and [spent] it&#8230;&#8221;, and now must re-negotiate the promises as they now exist.  </p>
<p>BOTH parties agree that there simply is not enough money available to keep these expanded promises in their present form.  What part of &#8220;unsustainable&#8221; do you not understand?</p>
<p>I agree that Medicare should not exclusively &#8220;take the hit&#8221;, but, as Willie Sutton famously said:  &#8220;That&#8217;s where the money is&#8221;.  The journey of a thousand miles still begins with a single step.  </p>
<p>Ryan does not seek to &#8220;not deliver what was bought&#8221;.  He, to the contrary, is interested in preserving as much as possible of that in good faith by re-negotiating HOW part of it is to be delivered to future recipients.  He offers SOMTHING instead of NOTHING.</p>
<p>The alternative is eventual default, a reality you seek to simply deny.  The choice you desire is simply not one that exists, and so you&#8217;re angry.  You&#8217;re not alone, but open your eyes&#8230;it&#8217;s time to quit whining and suck it up.  </p>
<p>America is BROKE!  Our ship of state has become a submarine and as she goes under you would have the hatches remain open!  I don&#8217;t agree.</p>
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		<title>By: txgadfly</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2012/03/23/ryan%e2%80%99s-budget-frames-2012-election-around-medicare/comment-page-1/#comment-42487</link>
		<dc:creator>txgadfly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Mar 2012 01:33:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/?p=12260#comment-42487</guid>
		<description>Yes, it is a very brave and honorable thing to sell something to someone, take the money paid and spend it, and then not deliver what was bought.  

If American elderly take a &quot;haircut&quot; on Medicare, I demand that all other creditors of the USA take the exact same percentage cut.  China, and every other holder of USA debt.  Savings bonds.  Federal &quot;Insurance&quot; of each and every type, especially to include financial instruments and obligations, Federal benefits including all payments of each and every kind to former Federal employees including &quot;elected&quot; ones and military ones.  Every &quot;forgiven&quot; or otherwise not collected &quot;loan&quot;, &quot;aid&quot; or any other transfer of money or assets to every foreign entity.  Hit everyone if you are to hit your own people.  

They do not care about defrauding the American people because they have rigged the &quot;election&quot; process in this country and made it a laughingstock.  Our re-election rates are higher than the Soviet Politburo&#039;s while polls show single digit approval ratings.  Noe that is &quot;fair&quot;.

But if they rob foreigners, they do not have to loan them any more money.  That they care about.  Just not paying for healthcare.  And these people brag about &quot;values&quot;.  Al Capone had better values.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, it is a very brave and honorable thing to sell something to someone, take the money paid and spend it, and then not deliver what was bought.  </p>
<p>If American elderly take a &#8220;haircut&#8221; on Medicare, I demand that all other creditors of the USA take the exact same percentage cut.  China, and every other holder of USA debt.  Savings bonds.  Federal &#8220;Insurance&#8221; of each and every type, especially to include financial instruments and obligations, Federal benefits including all payments of each and every kind to former Federal employees including &#8220;elected&#8221; ones and military ones.  Every &#8220;forgiven&#8221; or otherwise not collected &#8220;loan&#8221;, &#8220;aid&#8221; or any other transfer of money or assets to every foreign entity.  Hit everyone if you are to hit your own people.  </p>
<p>They do not care about defrauding the American people because they have rigged the &#8220;election&#8221; process in this country and made it a laughingstock.  Our re-election rates are higher than the Soviet Politburo&#8217;s while polls show single digit approval ratings.  Noe that is &#8220;fair&#8221;.</p>
<p>But if they rob foreigners, they do not have to loan them any more money.  That they care about.  Just not paying for healthcare.  And these people brag about &#8220;values&#8221;.  Al Capone had better values.</p>
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		<title>By: wilhelm</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2012/03/23/ryan%e2%80%99s-budget-frames-2012-election-around-medicare/comment-page-1/#comment-42483</link>
		<dc:creator>wilhelm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Mar 2012 19:23:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/?p=12260#comment-42483</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s not a spine to invoke killing off one section of the population for the benefit of another. If you cut off health care for the elderly, that&#039;s what you in effect do. So how is that meritorious? To protect the bond payment equations of the financial sector?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s not a spine to invoke killing off one section of the population for the benefit of another. If you cut off health care for the elderly, that&#8217;s what you in effect do. So how is that meritorious? To protect the bond payment equations of the financial sector?</p>
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		<title>By: greyblog</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2012/03/23/ryan%e2%80%99s-budget-frames-2012-election-around-medicare/comment-page-1/#comment-42468</link>
		<dc:creator>greyblog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Mar 2012 02:09:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/?p=12260#comment-42468</guid>
		<description>Paul Ryan&#039;s practical, common sense approach to restructuring Medicare will make the program more viable long-term, no doubt. 
 The current President&#039;s &#039;plan&#039; to appoint a panel of 15 bureaucrats to essentially choose winners and losers, is exactly what it appears to be. A talking point in a campaign speech. Par for the course for a man who eats, sleeps and breaths politics.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Paul Ryan&#8217;s practical, common sense approach to restructuring Medicare will make the program more viable long-term, no doubt.<br />
 The current President&#8217;s &#8216;plan&#8217; to appoint a panel of 15 bureaucrats to essentially choose winners and losers, is exactly what it appears to be. A talking point in a campaign speech. Par for the course for a man who eats, sleeps and breaths politics.</p>
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		<title>By: frankmazuca</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2012/03/23/ryan%e2%80%99s-budget-frames-2012-election-around-medicare/comment-page-1/#comment-42461</link>
		<dc:creator>frankmazuca</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Mar 2012 23:09:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/?p=12260#comment-42461</guid>
		<description>great comment from one. it is a shame that many corporations are paying zero taxes or less and the 1% are paying the second lowest in my life. I worked for social security and medicare and i do not need some politician to take that away from me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>great comment from one. it is a shame that many corporations are paying zero taxes or less and the 1% are paying the second lowest in my life. I worked for social security and medicare and i do not need some politician to take that away from me.</p>
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		<title>By: OneOfTheSheep</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2012/03/23/ryan%e2%80%99s-budget-frames-2012-election-around-medicare/comment-page-1/#comment-42460</link>
		<dc:creator>OneOfTheSheep</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Mar 2012 22:54:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/?p=12260#comment-42460</guid>
		<description>A politician with a spine?  I thought those were extinct from a political process of &quot;natural de-selection&quot;!  

Now that the medicine has been defined and provided, maybe Americans will be smart enough to hold their nose and swallow it.  It&#039;s harder and harder to &quot;kick the can down the road&quot; now that we&#039;re financially under water and heading ever deeper!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A politician with a spine?  I thought those were extinct from a political process of &#8220;natural de-selection&#8221;!  </p>
<p>Now that the medicine has been defined and provided, maybe Americans will be smart enough to hold their nose and swallow it.  It&#8217;s harder and harder to &#8220;kick the can down the road&#8221; now that we&#8217;re financially under water and heading ever deeper!</p>
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