Comments on: It’s the (lack of) unity, stupid! http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2012/11/05/its-the-lack-of-unity-stupid/ Thu, 21 Jul 2016 07:57:19 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=4.2.5 By: brotherkenny4 http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2012/11/05/its-the-lack-of-unity-stupid/#comment-66068 Wed, 07 Nov 2012 17:33:48 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/?p=15250#comment-66068 Nope. It’s the bitter and desparate action done by cruel and increasingly less influencial right wingers who don’t want to admit that all they ever were about was greed and causing pain. Mean and selfish, they grow ever more insignificant and will continue along that path, because their ideology is a belief and not based in reality. The simplistic lies and misdirection of their true intent are no longer fooling so many people. They speak of freedom, but force people to comply with their religious beliefs, they speak of fiscal responsibility but are accountable for most of our debt. As with the previous election and this, most people did not vote democratic, they voted against the republicans. Cruelty can be painted up however you want, but it’s still cruelty.

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By: Tony2238 http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2012/11/05/its-the-lack-of-unity-stupid/#comment-66025 Wed, 07 Nov 2012 07:41:41 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/?p=15250#comment-66025 Clueless: Gordon2352, Decatur, Jaix, weneedchange, Rumphius.

So far, the only comments that are grounded in reality are from zotdoc and johndan. The rest of you guys are rejoicing over having just cut off the branch on which you were sitting.

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By: Decatur http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2012/11/05/its-the-lack-of-unity-stupid/#comment-65999 Tue, 06 Nov 2012 20:06:54 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/?p=15250#comment-65999 The 2009 Obama stimulus or ARRA was about 1/3 building or research, 1/3 support for states to help with hard-hit state & local budgets, and 1/3 tax cuts for individuals, families and small business. I would think that conservative detractors would at least acknowledge this last, about $250 Billion, package of tax breaks.

The transportation part of the building aspect funded many hundreds of road improvements. Search your state DOT site to see how many. My small town had 2 overdue widening/improvements to main roads through town, a big safety enhancement, and my less populous state benefited from several dozen ARRA projects state-wide. Most people drove right by the small ‘funded by ARRA’ signs. The energy research was split pretty evenly with a few Billions for traditional oil, gas, coal and nuclear, and for renewable. The 1/10 to 1/12 of renewable projects that failed (both were new technologies that were undersold) are roughly 1/1000 of the total ARRA. ARRA research money gave several successful NASA probes extended mission as just one example of positive ripples out through economy for a few years from the 2009 ARRA.

Finally, no, ½ of Americans don’t need or get government support. Many laws ease the federal income tax burden on working poor; Reagan gave high praise to the one he signed; other deductions reward social values like marriage and raising kids, or encourage home ownership, which was seen as building local civic commitment and deterring crime. These laws to ease the poor’s federal income tax burden encourage work – instead of actual government assistance. In some sense these also offset what amount to benefits for the wealthy like low 15% capital gains tax rate or large estate tax exemptions. The people exempt from federal income tax by law still pay state and local tax, sales tax, vehicle registration fees/taxes, federal payroll tax, gasoline tax, etc. A far smaller number of Americans actually get government assistance.

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By: zotdoc http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2012/11/05/its-the-lack-of-unity-stupid/#comment-65982 Tue, 06 Nov 2012 15:13:12 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/?p=15250#comment-65982 The Obama stimulus was not about building new infrastructure such as our interstate system. It was about paying off political cronies like the GM unions. Money was stripped from the GM bondholders. Nothing was done for Ford. GM and the large too big to fail banks should have been allowed to go through bankruptcy and re organized. There is also the maker and taker factor – does almost half of the us population really NEED government assitance?

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By: johndan http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2012/11/05/its-the-lack-of-unity-stupid/#comment-65904 Tue, 06 Nov 2012 05:55:28 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/?p=15250#comment-65904 And then there is Harry Reid: “If Romney Wins, I’m Not Working With Him”. The House has sent the Senate over 30 economic bills that Harry Reid refuses to bring up for a vote. And Harry has us in the fourth year with no budget. But of course the House of Representatives controlled by the other party is demonized for their budget. Heaven forbid the Senate view this as a starting point to get their constitutionally mandate job done with regards the budget, as is the normal process.

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By: Rumphius http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2012/11/05/its-the-lack-of-unity-stupid/#comment-65857 Mon, 05 Nov 2012 20:48:24 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/?p=15250#comment-65857 More of the same? Yes please! I prefer disappointing to disaster.

The Republican party knowingly underfunded the Federal government (their “starve the beast” policy) during the G W Bush years. The Republicans chose to increase the federal deficit instead of reducing it. I believe they did this to create the fiscal pressures on the middle class and Federal social policies we experience now. Perhaps they do this in pursuit of a “trickle down” policy that has repeatedly failed, or perhaps they have some less honorable goal in mind (i.e. some “Ayn Rand” or “47%” type view?).

But for the business I am in to prosper, I need a stronger US middle class. The US middle class, business, and our society all need Federal judicial, commerce, and transportation involvement. Longer term, the Federal support for basic research, education, and social well being of this society are potentially more important, given the way that the world seems to work (i.e. IBM is one of the few companies that still seems to do at least some basic research, but markets no longer reward investments that don’t provide returns in a quarter it seems?). I feel that American democracy and our society need a stronger middle class, and this seems to mean we need Federal government.

Note that I do not have the option of voting for what the current Republican party would call a “Republican In Name Only” (RINO), so I will vote to stay with the current path, pick up the 8-12 million new jobs predicted for the next four years, and see which politicians actually try work together to help the country. Or perhaps Republicans will force the US into default, or let us tip over the “fiscal cliff”… Not a good outcome, but happily, I can afford the tax rates I use to pay ~10 years ago. Maybe there will be better choices in four years, but “disappointing” looks to be the best option for the sane.

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By: weneedchange http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2012/11/05/its-the-lack-of-unity-stupid/#comment-65838 Mon, 05 Nov 2012 19:30:38 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/?p=15250#comment-65838 Romney would be, by far, the biggest disappointment. He just can’t be trusted.

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By: Jaix http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2012/11/05/its-the-lack-of-unity-stupid/#comment-65832 Mon, 05 Nov 2012 19:18:00 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/?p=15250#comment-65832 Yes, America is hurting. Yes, the performance of America under President Barack Obama did not live up to expectations. But when you rate his performance ask yourself: What was the situation when he got into office? If he is re-elected will things not get better? I used to like Romney; in fact, the 1994 or 2008 Romney was a good choice. But that the election of the man Mitt Romney has now revealed himself to be is possible— that nearly half of your people will vote for him – a man who does not have the courage to stick to his convictions, a man who has no integrity. In his America – taxes will be cut for the rich and benefits will be cut for the poor, and immigrants who built America of whom he is a descendant will not be welcome.

Who can say Mitt Romney is a man of honour, a man of strength, a man of vision? A man who has the unmitigated gall to boldly lie to America – who has demonstrated that he will say anything, do anything just to get rid of Obama. Love him or hate him, the president has held to his governing ideals, love them or hate them.

Mitt Romney is a man who is the representative of a party that does not believe he would be a better president, just their president. A man who would rubber stamp whatever they put in front of him. A man that would be whatever they wanted him to be. A puppet. Whose strings would be pulled by whomever had the most to offer at the moment. Is that a president, America? IS THAT AN AMERICAN PRESIDENT? A MAN WHOSE GUIDING INTEREST IS SELF INTEREST – Doing whatever will get him what he wants – a man who will march to the tune of whomever co-opts him. If George Washington, John Adams or Benjamin Franklin were such men, you’d still be a British colony. FOR SHAME!!

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By: soulice http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2012/11/05/its-the-lack-of-unity-stupid/#comment-65823 Mon, 05 Nov 2012 17:37:24 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/?p=15250#comment-65823 Bloomberg summed up the voters’ dilemma perfectly when he said, “If the 1994 or 2003 version of Mitt Romney were running for president, I may well have voted for him because, like so many other independents, I have found the past four years to be, in a word, disappointing.”

-so, in light of that disappointment, I saygive me more disappointment. Huh?

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By: Decatur http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2012/11/05/its-the-lack-of-unity-stupid/#comment-65805 Mon, 05 Nov 2012 16:18:41 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/?p=15250#comment-65805 funny, mainstream Republicans once used stimulus as a routine tool to stabilize employment. Interstate highways, St Lawrence Seaway under Eisenhower for example. Expansion of Social Security at the same time, with balanced budgets – because Republicans were moderate and anti-deficit, not above all anti-tax and anti-government as they are today.

Moderate Eisenhower Republicans would have worked with Obama on his jobs bill proposals after 2010, and accelerated the recovery.

The root cause of the problem over the last 4 years is the immoderation of the tea party GOP, and the January 2009 GOP Congressional pledge to make Obama a 1-term president. When Romney was governor of Mass., did the democratic legislature he loves to tlak about pledge to obstruct him at every step? No, they were more attuned to their oaths of office than the GOP House we now have in Washington.

The GOP line is all about division: 47%, givers or takers (most people are both at different ages), “job creators’ vs. lazy rest of us, “every vote for Obama is a racial vote” (mine and many friends’ are not), and so on.

A contributing factor may the be rise of tailor-made electronic media and opinion… these replaced the past wider availability of quality printed information, and a few TV or radio stations that were longer on facts and analysis than what people see today. We are not ‘on the same page’ about the news today unless we make a serious effort to separate real news from opinion and sound bites.

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