When linking Boston to Chechnya, exercise caution

By David Gordon and Willis Sparks
April 19, 2013

Editor’s note: This is a memo originally published by Eurasia Group, a political risk firm. It is being reprinted with permission.

It now looks like the two perpetrators in the Boston Marathon bombing are ethnic Chechens who were raised as Muslims. But before we leap blindly into geopolitical speculation on what this all means, let’s take a step back and a deep breath. These bombers may well have more in common with the shooters at Columbine than the 9/11 hijackers.

Early reports suggest these young brothers arrived in the United States by way of Central Asia. The family may or not have fled Russian-Chechen violence in Chechnya in the early 1990s. The two boys appear to have arrived in the Boston area at a tender age-the older brother was about 16, and the younger was about 9.

The early portrait emerging seems to be of a deeply religious young man who saw no place for himself in American culture after a decade in the Boston area and his teenage younger brother. Though the greater Boston area is home to a substantial community of people from the Caucasus/Caspian region, there does not as yet appear to be evidence of a cell or a disaffected community of politically or ideologically active people from this area who pose a threat to their neighbors, to Massachusetts or to the United States.

Unfortunately, there will be those who assume an al Qaeda link, given that Chechin extremists have been directly involved in a range of al-Qaeda-related operations and insurgencies from Afghanistan to Iraq to the Middle East and North Africa. Russian officials have also consistently asserted a very tight link between Chechin nationalists generally and and al-Qaeda, largely to justify the repressive Russian policy in a hostile corner of its territory.

But the question is does this have anything to do with the alleged actions of these brothers in Boston? Is there evidence of that? That’s what we should be looking for.

Something may emerge, but unless and until it does, skepticism is our best weapon against misinformation. Unless some linkages do emerge, the Boston Marathon bombing is unlikely to reshape US counter-terrorism approaches, either at home or abroad. At the international level, it may open up some room for greater collaboration with Russian security and intelligence agencies, but will not be a game-changer in US – Russian relations.

PHOTO: Suspect wanted for questioning in relation to the Boston Marathon bombing April 15 is  revealed in this handout photo during an FBI news conference in Boston, April 18, 2013.  REUTERS/FBI/Handout

12 comments

We welcome comments that advance the story through relevant opinion, anecdotes, links and data. If you see a comment that you believe is irrelevant or inappropriate, you can flag it to our editors by using the report abuse links. Views expressed in the comments do not represent those of Reuters. For more information on our comment policy, see http://blogs.reuters.com/fulldisclosure/2010/09/27/toward-a-more-thoughtful-conversation-on-stories/

I fear and do not trust anyone who is overly and overtly religious. They have no mind of their own and will blindly follow their religious leaders.

All these young impressionable minds who do this kind of destruction of lives can be traced back to revenge or whacked out religious beliefs.

For the latter – there should be laws to hold those religious leaders accountable for the destruction they sow.

If that religious leader is any where on the planet and is responsible for terrorist activities in the USA – our duty is to hunt them down and hold them accountable in a criminal court.

A prime example is the youtube rantings of this nut who set these 2 brothers loose onto innocent Bostonians. He needs to be picked up right now from whatever country he resides in – by force if need be.

Posted by Butch_from_PA | Report as abusive

@Butch – fear and mistrust is the basis for this type of terrorism. Fear and mistrust is what gives rise to extreme views. What is the benchmark for “overly or overtly” religious? Someone practicing their faith? Going to a church, temple, or mosque?

Certainly it would make a difference what their beliefs are, no?

Yours is an extremist and intolerant view of religious folks, and you have more in common with terrorists in this way than with normal Americans who are tolerant of diversity and respect freedom of religion.

Posted by Laz7 | Report as abusive

I think David Gordon and Willis Sparks need to get the facts before suggesting, guessing, and making statements that are not fact based. I guess if they write a cute story that makes sense to them it must be true. Grow up!

Posted by ALLEMMON | Report as abusive

This is NOT about religious radicalism, but a underlying problem with our society that is manifesting itself as radicalism.

It is, however, related to this article in Reuters today, and to my answer about the same issue.

http://blogs.reuters.com/david-rohde/201 3/04/20/for-american-muslims-dread/

The thrust of the article as this:

“The problem, he argued, was radicalism. “In the whole world, … the far right is getting stronger.” He is right. The enemy is not Islam. It is extremism.

NO, he is WRONG!

I am copying my comment from that article to this one, since they are both related issues that should be thoughtfully covered together, instead of like a “supermarket tabloid”.

##########################

Maybe, just maybe, if we didn’t promote “multiculturalism” as though it was the “State Religion”, our “Pseudo-Americans” — in other words, the African-Americans, Mexican-Americans, Muslim-Americans, Chinese-Americans, etc. — wouldn’t feel so threatened when someone of “their” culture does something unnacceptable to “our” culture, whether it be mass shootings or bombings.

It used to be that other cultures at least made an attempt to assimilate into the prevailing European-American culture — of which I am one and I refer to myself an an American citizen nevertheless, but increasing less proud of that fact each and every day as I see and understand where this POS country is going — but now the old “melting pot” theory, which admittedly was little more than government propaganda, has been totally discarded in favor of open multiculturalism.

Ain’t multiculturalism grand? Look at what it has done for this nation. Anyone familiar with the term Balkanization?

Let me enlighten you with the definition of Balkanization, which is NEVER mentioned as a logical and predictable result of multiculuralism (defined for comparison).

======================

Balkanization

1.
to divide (a country, territory, etc.) into small, quarrelsome, ineffectual states.
2.
( often lowercase ) to divide (groups, areas, etc.) into contending and usually ineffectual factions: a movement to balkanize minority voters.

———————————–

Multiculturalim

1.
the state or condition of being multicultural.
2.
the preservation of different cultures or cultural identities within a unified society, as a state or nation.

The view that the various cultures in a society merit equal respect and scholarly interest. It became a significant force in American society in the 1970s and 1980s as African-Americans, Latinos, and other ethnic groups explored their own history.

—————————————

Oxymoron (the word that should appear as one of the definitions of Multiculturalism).

a figure of speech by which a locution produces an incongruous, seemingly self-contradictory effect, as in “cruel kindness” or “to make haste slowly.”

—————————————

Bullshit (yet another definition of Multiculturalism).

1.
nonsense, lies, or exaggeration.
verb (used with object)
2.
to lie or exaggerate to.
verb (used without object)
3.
to speak lies or nonsense.

interjection
4.
(used especially to express disagreement.)

Note #4 is the only acceptable use of the word bullshit when speaking about multiculturalism.

1. exaggerated or foolish talk; nonsense
2. deceitful or pretentious talk

==========================

THAT is what is wrong with this country — “MULTICULTURALISM”.

Apparently, the American people are too stupid to realize we have been invaded and are being destroyed from within by foreign cultures that are intent on destroying this nation.

Why?

Cheap labor!

The wealthy class has returned to its “roots” of unmitigated greed, and is busily destroying OUR country, just so THEY can prosper.

The rule for the “road to riches” for them is, if you can’t export the job, then import the laborer.

Notice, for example, the people the author was speaking to are not “real” Americans, but “Pakistani-Americans” (i.e. simply imported cheap labor”). Is it working? Have our health care costs gone down?

HELL NO!

The reason is the wealthy are driving down labor costs and pocketing the extra profits!

DUH!

As a side note, just in case there is anyoneout there who can understand what is going on, the real reason economics doesn’t work anymore is because it has been transformed by the wealthy class into a global concept, but free trade — as Adam Smith pointed out in his Wealth of Nations (1776) CANNOT be a global phenomenon or it won’t work. Instead, it will favor the vested interests of those in power.

DUH!

What do you people think is happening and why, or do you bother to think at all.

Come on people, this isn’t “rocket science”, nor do you need an advanced degree (like the MBA that I have, which I am admitting as matter of revealing my interest in the subject) to understand it. This is simply good old fashioned greed, pure and simple.

The way to destroy greed — the tried and true method — is to pass and ENFORCE laws that punish those who would break the laws to destroy this country for profit.

THAT IS WHAT THE WEALTHY CLASS IS DOING — THEY HAVE OVERTHROWN OUR GOVERNMENT WITH TRADE, BANKING AND TAX LAWS THAT BENEFIT THEM AT OUR EXPENSE.

I suggest you people pull your heads out of your rectal cavities and pay attention to what the wealthy class is doing, instead of being diverted by all these “hot button” issues the wealthy use to distract you with.

In my opinion, it is already far too late to force change peacefully. But it is worth giving it a shot. The problem with this nation, since it has increasingly drifted towards mindless liberalism, is “the lights are on, but nobody is home”.

Prove me wrong, if you can.

Posted by PseudoTurtle | Report as abusive

Here is an article linking Boston to chechnya that might be interesting.

You can choose to dismiss it as conspiracy theory, but it does raise some interesting questions about who knew what, and when.

Most particularly, why?

=========================

“The Tsarnaev brothers were double agents who decoyed US into terror trap”

DEBKAfile Exclusive Analysis April 20, 2013, 4:39 PM (GMT+02:00)

The big questions buzzing over Boston Bombers Tamerlan and Dzhokhar Tsarnaev have a single answer: It emerged in the 102 tense hours between the twin Boston Marathon bombings Monday, April 15 – which left three dead, 180 injured and a police officer killed at MIT – and Dzohkhar’s capture Friday, April 19 in Watertown.

The conclusion reached by debkafile’s counterterrorism and intelligence sources is that the brothers were double agents, hired by US and Saudi intelligence to penetrate the Wahhabi jihadist networks which, helped by Saudi financial institutions, had spread across the restive Russian Caucasian.

Instead, the two former Chechens betrayed their mission and went secretly over to the radical Islamist networks.

By this tortuous path, the brothers earned the dubious distinction of being the first terrorist operatives to import al Qaeda terror to the United States through a winding route outside the Middle East – the Caucasus.

This broad region encompasses the autonomous or semi-autonomous Muslim republics of Dagestan, Ingushetia, Kabardino-Balkaria, Chechnya, North Ossetia and Karachyevo-Cherkesiya, most of which the West has never heard of.

Moscow however keeps these republics on a tight military and intelligence leash, constantly putting down violent resistance by the Wahhabist cells, which draw support from certain Saudi sources and funds from the Riyadh government for building Wahhabist mosques and schools to disseminate the state religion of Saudi Arabia.
The Saudis feared that their convoluted involvement in the Caucasus would come embarrassingly to light when a Saudi student was questioned about his involvement in the bombng attacks while in a Boston hospital with badly burned hands.

They were concerned to enough to send Saudi Foreign Minister Prince Saudi al-Faisal to Washington Wednesday, April 17, in the middle of the Boston Marathon bombing crisis, for a private conversation with President Barack Obama and his national security adviser Tom Donilon on how to handle the Saudi angle of the bombing attack.
That day too, official Saudi domestic media launched an extraordinary three-day campaign. National and religious figures stood up and maintained that authentic Saudi Wahhabism does not espouse any form of terrorism or suicide jihadism and the national Saudi religion had nothing to do with the violence in Boston. “No matter what the nationality and religious of the perpetrators, they are terrorists and deviants who represent no one but themselves.”

Prince Saud was on a mission to clear the 30,000 Saudi students in America of suspicion of engaging in terrorism for their country or religion, a taint which still lingers twelve years after 9/11. He was concerned that exposure of the Tsarnaev brothers’ connections with Wahhabist groups in the Caucasus would revive the stigma.

The Tsarnaevs’ recruitment by US intelligence as penetration agents against terrorist networks in southern Russia explains some otherwise baffling features of the event:
1. An elite American college in Cambridge admitted younger brother Dzhokhar and granted him a $2,500 scholarship, without subjecting him to the exceptionally stiff standard conditions of admission. This may be explained by his older brother Tamerlan demanding this privilege for his kid brother in part payment for recruitment.
2. When in 2011, a “foreign government” (Russian intelligence) asked the FBI to screen Tamerlan for suspected ties to Caucasian Wahhabist cells during a period in which they had begun pledging allegiance to al Qaeda, the agency, it was officially revealed, found nothing incriminating against him and let him go after a short interview.

He was not placed under surveillance. Neither was there any attempt to hide the fact that he paid a long visit to Russia last year and on his return began promoting radical Islam on social media.
Yet even after the Boston marathon bombings, when law enforcement agencies, heavily reinforced by federal and state personnel, desperately hunted the perpetrators, Tamerlan Tsarnaev was never mentioned as a possible suspect

3. Friday, four days after the twin explosions at the marathon finishing line, the FBI released footage of Suspect No. 1 in a black hat and Suspect No. 2 in a white hat walking briskly away from the crime scene, and appealed to the public to help the authorities identify the pair.
We now know this was a charade. The authorities knew exactly who they were. Suddenly, during the police pursuit of their getaway car from the MIT campus on Friday, they were fully identified. The brother who was killed in the chase was named Tamerlan, aged 26, and the one who escaped, only to be hunted down Saturday night hiding in a boat, was 19-year old Dzhokhar.

Our intelligence sources say that we may never know more than we do today about the Boston terrorist outrage which shook America – and most strikingly, Washington – this week. We may not have the full story of when and how the Chechen brothers were recruited by US intelligence as penetration agents – any more than we have got to the bottom of tales of other American double agents who turned coat and bit their recruiters.

Here is just a short list of some of the Chechen brothers’ two-faced predecessors:

In the 1980s, an Egyptian called Ali Abdul Saoud Mohamed offered his services as a spy to the CIA residence in Cairo. He was hired, even though he was at the time the official interpreter of Ayman al-Zuwahiri, then Osama bin Laden’s senior lieutenant and currently his successor.

He accounted for this by posing as a defector. But then, he turned out to be feeding al Qaeda US military secrets. Later, he was charged with Al Qaeda’s 1998 bombings of US embassies in Nairobi and Dar es-Salaam.
On Dec. 30, 2009, the Jordanian physician Humam Khalil al-Balawi, having gained the trust of US intelligence in Afghanistan as an agent capable of penetrating al Qaeda’s top ranks, detonated a bomb at a prearranged rendezvous in Kost, killing the four top CIA agents in the country.
Then, there was the French Muslim Mohamed Merah. He was recruited by French intelligence to penetrate Islamist terror cells in at least eight countries, including the Caucasus. At the end of last year, he revealed his true spots in deadly attacks on a Jewish school in Toulouse and a group of French military commandoes.

The debate has begun over the interrogation of the captured Boston bomber Dzhokhar Tsarmayev when he is fit for questioning after surgery for two bullet wounds and loss of blood. The first was inflicted during the police chase in which his brother Tamerlan was killed.

An ordinary suspect would be read his rights (Miranda) and be permitted a lawyer. In his case, the “public safety exemption” option may be invoked, permitting him to be questioned without those rights, provided the interrogation is restricted to immediate public safety concerns. President Barack Obama is also entitled to rule him an “enemy combatant” and so refer him to a military tribunal and unrestricted grilling.

According to debkafile’s counter terror sources, four questions should top the interrogators’ agenda:

a) At what date did the Tsarnaev brothers turn coat and decide to work for Caucasian Wahhabi networks?

b) Did they round up recruits for those networks in the United States – particularly, among the Caucasian and Saudi communities?
c) What was the exact purpose of the Boston Marathon bombings and their aftermath at MIT in Watertown?
d) Are any more terrorist attacks in the works in other American cities?

—————————————–

Direct link:

http://www.debka.com/article/22914/The-T sarnaev-brothers-were-double-agents-who- decoyed-US-into-terror-trap

Posted by PseudoTurtle | Report as abusive

@PseudoTurtle,

As usual, you contribute a lot of good research and facts only to turn off those who are thus far “with you” with your ever-repeated verbal rants about “America’s wealthy class”. Hello? Successful Americans had NOTHING to do with the Boston tragedy.

Only in what America’s liberal “academia” could someone with your brains and ability satisfy all requirements for an MBA and still have NO COMMON SENSE! You just can’t grok that Americans love a “winner”, and all, eventually hope to be one.

No one wins a debate by demonizing those a majority of “judges” admire and hope someday to join, whether by luck, skill, or sheer effort. In Boston, even those financial villains, America’s “Banksters” and other unrestrained financial criminals who benefit from perennial lack of enforcement of existing American law, rules and regulations are, for once, clearly not implicated.

Snap out of it!

Posted by OneOfTheSheep | Report as abusive

Though unusual in today’s polarized political and news environment, I think this is an important reminder. Yes, maybe there is a big neo Muslim hate thing going on; maybe not. Regardless of their specific religious or other background, it does appear these were two young men that had been in the US a while and did not fit in. It does not look like they had training in Afghan camps then came here right away to carry out some plan. It is sad and a shame regardless of how this went down.

That they were religious should not bother Americans. At least that had an ethos. I went to Catholic school and though was tormented by the nuns am ever grateful for their commitment to what they believed in. I’m not a Catholic anymore so no need to throw stones at that bunch. My mother is a devout Catholic and to me she has always been a perfect saint.

Point is, and I’m really echoing the writer of this article, find a way to back off the polarized thoughts and language. Leave that to the left and right hardliners. This article doesn’t say anything of the innocense of these two men or of anyone else. All it is saying is resist the temptation to rush to judgment from a conspiracy angle. Unless you personally know them or were present for some of the hostilities, all you know is what you have seen and heard through the press. Not saying any of it is wrong, but you see and hear what someone else has chosen for you to see and hear… surely, you do not believe EVERYTHING They say.

Oh, and regardless of the reason why he did it, as an American I’d figure out what legitimate legal American thing we should do, do it, then I’d hang the sonofabitch–he is a murderer and I’d cut him down as as fast as I’d flick a booger.

Peace!

Posted by RockyMorris | Report as abusive

@ OneOfTheSheep –

You state, “As usual, you contribute a lot of good research and facts only to turn off those who are thus far “with you” with your ever-repeated verbal rants about “America’s wealthy class”. Hello? Successful Americans had NOTHING to do with the Boston tragedy.

Only in what America’s liberal “academia” could someone with your brains and ability satisfy all requirements for an MBA and still have NO COMMON SENSE! You just can’t grok that Americans love a “winner”, and all, eventually hope to be one.

No one wins a debate by demonizing those a majority of “judges” admire and hope someday to join, whether by luck, skill, or sheer effort. In Boston, even those financial villains, America’s “Banksters” and other unrestrained financial criminals who benefit from perennial lack of enforcement of existing American law, rules and regulations are, for once, clearly not implicated.

Snap out of it!

—————————————

OOTS, I think with my education and experience I probably understand what is wrong with this nation, especially from an economic viewpoint far more than you do.

As a CPA, as well as a Plant Controller and Finance Manager in the high-tech industry for several multinational corporations, I worked very closely with these people each day for many decades before retiring. This was during the “Great Migration” of US jobs overseas, mainly to China and SE Asia.

I have been in attendance during quarterly earnings release sessions when the corporation realeases their earnings to the public, including providing support to the CFO/CEO during BOD meetings presentations, and in an advisory capacity in strategy sessions with CEOs and CFOs.

I understand the accounting methods used to avoid US taxes by corporations, including the truly massive amounts that tax avoidance involves. The name of the game is profits for the shareholders, even at the expense of destroying this nation.

The wealthy class simply does not have the same priorities that the non-wealthy do, which means they operate under a strict profit motive, and as a rule do not care about the “hot button” issues the masses find so important.
They care solely about profits and creating wealth for themselves. For example, job outsourcing, job “insourcing” — which is the real underlying point of this article, and is the direct result of importing cheap labor to increase their profits — immigration policies, taxes, trade and banking are nothing more than a means to an end.

As I said, it is the importation of cheap labor that is the underlying issue of many of our social and economic problems. Those cheap labor policies create “multiculturalism” and have been doing so for many decades. This in turn results in a nation that is becoming increasingly destabilized, which results in attacks on our culture like 9/11 and now this Boston Massacre.

It is a dual phenomenon. We attempt to export our “culture” to the Middle East, thus destabilizing foreign countries to place favorable regimes in power, which increases profits for the wealthy class, but whose peoples see our materialism as an anathema, and are then motivated to attack our nation. Since we have imported so many “Pseudo-Americans” it is incredibly easy for foreign nationals to penetrate our nation’s borders, and we become extremely vulnerable to their attacks.

THAT is the link to the supposedly “non-existent” responsibility you claim for the wealthy class.

In point of fact, this nation NEVER does ANYTHING that isn’t motivated by profits. Take another example for instance, the wealth drive — strongly supported by “Pseudo-Americans” — to revise our immigration policy (i.e. to give at least 11 million Hispanics a road to citizenship). By the way, how do we know there are only 11 million illegal immigrants here? And, even if there are only 11 million, how many unemployed US citizens do we have currently. I’m not sure anyone, not even the government, knows that number because it isn’t being accurately reported anyhow. There is nothing wrong with the present immigration policy, except it isn’t favorable to the massive numbers (and growing daily) of “Pseudo-Americans” who would be forced to leave. THAT is the problem. The wealthy connection is that they don’t want all that cheap labor being forced out of this county because it would hurt their profits.

I submit it is you OOTS, who have no “common sense”. The American Dream has been turned into an American Nightmare by the wealthy class, mainly as a result of their ascension to power once again since their collapse during the Great Depression when some modicum of social legislation was forced on them. They are now very close to having reversed almost all of that hated legislation imposed on them, which will result in destroying this nation. Our past, prior to the Great Depression (which was the direct result of wealthy excess during the 1920s) was one of Social Darwinism (i.e. survival of the fittest) and the “immigrant nation” we are so proud of was in fact a nightmare of deprivation and hardship for those mostly European immigrants. THAT is what the wealthy class are. It is a historical fact. Don’t take my word for it, do some research for yourself.

The wealthy class in this country are NOT benign, and NEVER have been. I would say to you “SNAP OUT OF IT!”. You are living in a world that exists solely in your mind. If you admire them and think you can ever become one of them, WAKE UP, since it isn’t going to happen. At least, not for the vast majority of non-wealthy people in this country.

Our problems, as I said, are due SOLELY to the rise of the neocons, beginning with Reagan. EVERYTHING this nation has done over the past 30 years has been SOLELY to benefit the wealthy class. THAT IS A FACT.

If we are to survive, we MUST reverse ALL the free trade, tax and banking policies of the past three decades. It is literally as simple as that. But we must first understand there is a serious problem, determine the root causes of that problem and then be willing to do what it takes to resolve it.

For example, the American people have lost faith in Congress, but apparently can’t seem to make the connection between wealthy class lobbying efforts and the gridlock of our government. THAT IS A FACT. Change our government to a system to include term limits for political office and make lobbying illegal. DUH! What is there about lobbying that you people cannot seem to understand? LOBBYING IS LEGALIZED BRIBERY OF OUR PUBLIC OFFICIALS! How can you possibly expect our government to operate like this? It is the wealthy class that is responsible. The proof is the enormous swing in wealth from the middle class to the wealthy class. DUH!

EVERYTHING that happens in this nation is a result of what our government does, the laws and regulations it passes, thus there IS a direct connection between the wealthy class and what is happening to this country.

I am NOT simply ranting. What I AM is a “whistle-blower”, based on my insider information, but you people are either too stupid or disinterested to understand what I am saying.

As I have said many times before, “it’s the wealthy, stupid!”

You don’t need to have my education or experience. All you need is to follow the money, but you are apparently too enamored with the wealthy class and prone to listen to their bullshit propaganda to understand what they are doing to this country and to you personally.

OOTS, I would venture to say I probably understand wealthy motivations far better than you do.

Don’t take my word for it, “do the math”!

Posted by PseudoTurtle | Report as abusive

@ OneOfTheSheep –

If you think my comment immediately above is solely an “unreasonable rant” against the wealthy class, I’d like to see a response that doesn’t include a gut-level emotional response.

Clearly, you do not “grok” (i.e. “to understand thoroughly and intuitively”) the wealthy class as I do or you would not “grok” (i.e. “to communicate sympathetically”) about them.

ALL of your comments are based solely on an emotional response, most of which have no connection with reality at all.

As the saying goes, “opinions are like rectal cavities, everybody has one”, and yours add about as much value as that.

If you MUST attack me, at least do it with facts.

If you don’t understand what you are saying, then say nothing at all.

Responding to you is a total waste of my time.

I have told you before that I will not respond to your rantings and personal attacks, and this is a reminder of that fact.

Posted by PseudoTurtle | Report as abusive

Unfortunately, David Gordon as Head of Research at Eurasia Group and former Director of Policy Planning at the US Department of State and Willis Sparks as Director of Global Macro analysis at Eurasia Group should already have the information and should have already supplied it to all U.S. intelligence agencies. Let me speculate they are part of the reason we can say Ft. Hood and Boston are failures of the entire U.S. intelligence network and began when Jimmy Carter furloughed 800 CIA operatives and continues under this administration. Moreover, don’t tell me what I should think. I’ve done more pertinent research on this than you have.

Posted by GMichael | Report as abusive

Talking of someone with no common sense, it seems to me that it is only after a trip to Dagestan that the older boy got radicalised. Surely this is evidence of some sort that the boy took up the cause and was presumably “got at” by extremists, whilst visiting his father, even after being in the US since he was 15? The other one was dragged along by the brother into this stupidity.
And talking as one Post said above about educated people with no sense, these boys clearly were model citizens with good educations and liked by everyone- until something went wrong and the older one is described as behaving out of character a year or so ago. After the bombing which seems to have mainly maimed rather than killed people, they went out and robbed a store. The stupidity of the young is incredible (I know I was one) especially if gotten hold of and brainwashed by terrorists. And they weren’t alone, others have been arrested. I see this as something of a misguided but horrible stunt that has gone somewhat wrong, and has left people to suffer all their lives without limbs, as well as killing a fellow student with excellent prospects for contributing to society, and a small child! Also it has ruined the lives of the bombers themselves who were well on the way to productive lives.
I too am angry at those who have brain-washed these kids. Unfortunately one of the perpetrators is a cleric in my country Australia, who has never been to Chechnya as neither of these two did either. His radical pronunciations are a thing of the past, but apparently were still on the web, and the police here are satisfied that he no longer promotes violence. So that just adds to the tragedy.
Furthermore in point 2 of the long comment above, it is noted that the Russian government mentioned the older boy as a possible risk, but the US didn’t see it as relevant, expecting no problems from Chechnyens (which they were ethnically) as they had no involvement in it. Elsewhere in the posts the US is suddenly involved in some organised thing about Chechnya leading to double agents etc. Why the sudden change of heart one asks? But here in Australia there are similar conspiracy theorists who have the whole thing perpetrated by the US government to tighten their hold on the public! Honestly!
However the article is right regarding a note of caution. There is no proof so far about whether or not these are “sleepers”. That is they may have been brainwashed from a much earlier age, even before the younger boy got to the US at the age of 8, and may therefore have put a facade of being likable, decent, hard-working kids that seems to have fooled everyone.
In that context is the response from their family that they have been “set up” by authorities and were not in fact involved. Perhaps they all were???? Either that or the main characteristic of this family is stupidity, because I think it is clear to everyone except them that there is proof the two boys were involved.
For this stupidity the laws of Massuchusetts will be over-ridden and the death penalty will be probably applied. Thus one of the most civilised places in your country will result in a chest-beating exercise by idiots that not only caused immense pain and suffering to many but to themselves as well. The execution of a young man will probably bring little comfort to those without legs, or to the people of Boston, none of whom will have any say in it. And there will be no opportunity for this idiot to ever see the error of his ways, and to feel something for his victims, and be remorseful. Just like the gun debate it becomes a breast beating exercise.

Posted by cc_ctc | Report as abusive

@PseudoTurtle,

You seem to be a victim of seeing what you expect or want to see. I strongly suggest instead you open your mind to accept and appropriately sort what your eyes tell your brain. Or, to put it another way, don’t let the trees block your perception that you are in a forest. Situational awareness is always of vital importance.

You also resent having your posts commonly ignored, yet refuse to consider that the reason is a hopelessly flawed perspective. If you would fight injustice, first you have to determine where injustice is most oppressive. THAT is the enemy you must target.

There is injustice, both individual and collective, throughout every society but standing in the middle of a circle firing limited ammunition in every direction is about as effective as swinging blindly at a piñata. It just makes you and your concerns look ridiculous. Focus is essential to success, and the rifle reaches further than the shotgun.

Being a CPA and a Plant Controller and Finance Manager in several multinational high-tech corporations for decades gives you unique insight, but it’s very nature limits it’s “scope”. You attempt to rush to and render judgment on human nature itself without meaningfully comprehending it. You then emotionally lash out at others in a frustrated rage. It is your own present and willful shortcomings that are to blame.

There is a vital difference in an “emotional” response and an “emotional” thought process. It is the latter to which I have referred. You can explain a logical thought process easily to others and attract those of open mind to your viewpoint (if it is credible). You and I agree on many points. It is possible to move toward SOME “consensus” based on such agreement.

I have made it a point to weigh All of your words, and find respect for the “wheat” among the chaff. Can you not try harder to do the same? A debate isn’t about “winning”. It’s about achieving a common understanding, and sometimes it’s necessary to “agree to disagree”.

Even if you explain an emotional thought process in such a way as to attract those of open mind to your viewpoint, your “converts” may well march in any direction and even do your “cause” damage. An excellent example would be the abortion “issue”. But I digress…let’s return to the “issues at hand”.

Everyone knows that corporations adopt the accounting methods that will minimize their taxes. That doesn’t make them “evil”. Individuals do the exact same thing. If corporations are more successful in avoiding excess taxation under existing rules and regulations than individuals, perhaps that is because they have greater amounts “in play” which justifies hiring the “best and brightest” accountants and tax lawyers. That’s not “evil”.

Judge Learned Hand held that no man has an obligation to pay more in tax than the law requires. Every individual that takes a personal deduction is engaging in “tax avoidance”. That’s just an emotional word with adverse connotation for something legal we all do every year.

“… job outsourcing, job “insourcing” — which is the real underlying point of this article, and is the direct result of importing cheap labor to increase their profits — immigration policies, taxes, trade and banking are nothing more than a means to an end. The name of the game is profits for [corporate] shareholders.” Well, DUH? Profit is NOT a four letter word. Businesses are “in business” to make money, not solve the social problems of the world. It is for governments and their regulations to harness one to the other.

“We attempt to export our “culture” to the Middle East…whose peoples see our materialism as an anathema.” Well, if those people “value” and prefer their present relative ignorance, poverty, and hopelessness (not much of a market for HATE exports today), I’m certainly willing to go along.

“Social Darwinism (i.e. survival of the fittest)” has been the case as long as man has existed. Get used to it. You’re not going to change it and neither is anyone else. It’s human nature at it’s most predictable.

“…we must first understand there is a serious problem, determine the root causes of that problem and then be willing to do what it takes to resolve it.” Agree with you completely on this, without qualification. “Change our government to a system to include term limits for political office and make lobbying illegal. I’m with you! “LOBBYING IS LEGALIZED BRIBERY OF OUR PUBLIC OFFICIALS!” No argument. What’s your point?

“EVERYTHING that happens in this nation is a result of what our government does, the laws and regulations it passes…”. Once again, I agree with you completely, without qualification. So why can’t we agree that an unaccountable GOVERNMENT expanding like a financial cancer is the “problem”?

“There IS a direct connection between the wealthy class and what is happening to this country.” Nope. Fail. If you could press a button and every one of the current “wealthy class” would drop dead, by the time the next “survey” was out there be a completely new “wealthy class”.

In any society of any time there has always been “the wealthy” who have held power or there has been power which has accumulated wealth. These are two ends of the same rope. It’s not “personal;” as you would make it and your incessant ranting against human nature is simply noise that will never do anything but deflect attention from fights that CAN BE WON and SHOULD BE FOUGHT INSTEAD.

Posted by OneOfTheSheep | Report as abusive