Comments on: What is the long-term euro vision?

By: SGDB

SGDB — Wed, 23 May 2012 08:23:48 +0000

Sure one can fix it by turning Europe into a political en fiscal superstate.
In fact, the ESM Treaty does just that.
However, is comes at a terrible cost: it will do away with the sovereignty of each member state and cross out democracy in one single stroke.
Maybe European economics will be saved, but it will mean the start of a financial dictatorship. The people will very likely suffer.
Given the choice (if they get any), people will probably choose to suffer through an era of poverty in freedom and democracy, rather than choose to live in a Big Brother state that will claim all their tax revenues and will leave them only a glamour of freedom, or no freedom at all.

By: Qeds

Qeds — Wed, 23 May 2012 06:58:33 +0000

This vision looks like a nice soviet block where everybody bails everybody. So why not go bankrupt if you get bailed from the center anyway.

By: MrRFox

MrRFox — Wed, 23 May 2012 06:28:20 +0000

“If the euro zone can do these three things … nations will be able to keep both the euro and much of their sovereignty.” (HD)

And if I was 6′-8″ I could slam-dunk a basketball.

By: PseudoTurtle

PseudoTurtle — Tue, 22 May 2012 14:49:55 +0000

One problem you didn’t address is the same issue Germany keeps bringing up, and that is strict banking regulations and controls MUST be in place BEFORE advancing any more money.

Failure to do so will result in performing the same task over and over, but expecting a different result each time — a working definition of insanity.

Clearly, it is the system itself that is broken.

First fix the system, then advance more liquidity under very strict guidelines so that it actually reaches those who would ensure growth.

Banks, contrary to popular belief, are NOT interested in growth, but profits — the two are not necessarily the same. That is why banks MUST be strictly regulated to ensure they actually use the liquidity to generate growth.

The absolute NEED to restrain what banks do with the bailout money they are given — instead of the “no strings attached” policy in vogue since 2008 (a problem common to both the eurozone and the US) — should seem obvious to those in power on any level you care to name, but apparently is completely beyond their ability to grasp at even the most rudimentary level.

The continuing failure to do so is the underlying reason for the failure of the economy to recover.

ANY argument made to restore liquidity without strict regulations and accountability is WRONG, and is guaranteed to make the situation worse.

THAT is not theory, but a demonstrable fact!

WHY do we keep taking advice from the same people responsible for this economic disaster?

Clearly, at this point it should be obvious that these people either do not know what they are doing at ANY level of competence, or they are deliberately feigning ignorance for their own purposes.

In either case, it certainly is NOT in the best interests of the vast majority of people who will ultimately end up having to pay for this disaster!

By: running

running — Mon, 21 May 2012 23:21:46 +0000

the Euro is probably history, they can’t even recycle the Euro without something being stolen

By: CO2-Exhaler

CO2-Exhaler — Mon, 21 May 2012 22:14:40 +0000

Greece is insolvent. No amount of creative accounting or restructuring can change the fact that it can’t pay back the money it owes. In reality it can’t even service the debt. It must default and must leave the euro, otherwise the same problem will inevitably arise again in the future.

It would surely be an act of the most monumental folly for the German government, or indeed that of any other eurozone country, to agree to underwrite bond issues of the eurozone as a whole, without having all the control and scrutiny that it currently enjoys over its own regions. Who is going to provide that control and scrutiny? This just isn’t going to happen without the full political union that this article quite rightly concludes, is out of the question for the people of Europe.

So where does this leave us? In a bit of a mess is the answer. There can be no guarantees that Spain, Portugal, Ireland and Italy won’t follow the Greeks into insolvency and/or leaving the euro.

Let’s at least be clear about one thing: who is to blame. The European Commission, which saw the potential for the eurozone project to lock everyone in to the inexorable and inescapable conclusion of full-scale political union. The speed of events has caught them out. There won’t be time now for the “project” to be completed. Let’s just hope that the suffering caused by the “project” unravelling does not lead to other, more terrible, consequences.

By: scythe

scythe — Mon, 21 May 2012 22:00:18 +0000

“flexibility in labour markets” – a euphemism for exploitation

let’s not have euphemisms and other peddling of waffle, say directly what you mean and intend to happen

(quote) “One of the main reasons states and lenders were allowed to leverage ….”

the greek politicians lied to their lenders and spain/ireland sucked up the puke from real estate speculation …. the banks and other corporate scavengers ably assisted this greed, even adding their own toxic investments to swindle “muppets” in the market

let’s talk about taxing financial transactions and maybe follow hollande’s line of thought for nasty surprises against those possessing obscene wealth without merit or endeavour

aka. we need “more flexibility” in taxing the accumulation of obscene wealth from market gambling and relieving its owners of the burden

By: wirk

wirk — Mon, 21 May 2012 18:33:45 +0000

Your arguments do not apply to Greece which is singular case. Greece is an example of failed state which is disorganized, corrupted on a social scale and paralyzed. On the economic level, Greece is really not different from its Balkan neighbours but its standard of life was pumped up to a developed country level. Thus, Greece must return to its natural level. Either by austerity ot by ejection from the euro, the pain will be equal in both cases.

Others, like Spain, Portugal, Ireland can be dealt with.

By: steve778936

steve778936 — Mon, 21 May 2012 17:38:23 +0000

Hugo, well reasoned and cogent. But the fly in the ointment remains the same – politicians who make rules, then bend or brake them at will i.e. Basel 3. Greece, Italy, Spain, etc. all made the same fundamental error. Politicians who wanted to be elected catered to special interests and promised the electorate pie in the sky. The only cure for this is to remove some level of sovereignty from individual countries. If a government fails in its fiduciary duties, it has to be removed forthwith and a more responsible team put in place. This obviously opens up a new bucket of worms. But so long as politicians in democratic governments want to be elected and stay in office, and particularly when there are numerous countries with a huge variety of internal issues, this type of crisis will not go away for any length of time.

By: thebeorn

thebeorn — Mon, 21 May 2012 17:34:11 +0000

I just dont see southern europe becoming as productive as northern. if they want to keep a common currency then the wealthy northern states will have to accept a wealth transference to the south. A currency breakup is much more likely then your suggestion.