Comments on: The revolution will be organized http://blogs.reuters.com/hugo-dixon/2012/06/29/the-revolution-will-be-organized/ Mon, 18 Apr 2016 14:55:08 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=4.2.5 By: mubeenahs http://blogs.reuters.com/hugo-dixon/2012/06/29/the-revolution-will-be-organized/comment-page-1/#comment-423 Tue, 10 Jul 2012 13:32:13 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/hugo-dixon/?p=363#comment-423 Dear Dixon, we have to stop old Zionist habit of hacking into everything, just to bring it where they want to, and the way they want. Respect people’s sentiments sometimes. Brotherhood has lost their precious lives for decades during the movement.Americans and Zionists have scooped up the fruits of various clans/regimes/governments and even countries for centuries now, and continue to do so. Lets do justice on earth, as it is called.

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By: arlo2012 http://blogs.reuters.com/hugo-dixon/2012/06/29/the-revolution-will-be-organized/comment-page-1/#comment-414 Tue, 03 Jul 2012 13:19:54 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/hugo-dixon/?p=363#comment-414 This column is simply a rehash of Dobson’s The Dictator’s Learning Curve – Hugo, whose writing I like, quotes the EXACT same folks Dobson does. And his example of the Tymoshenko-Yushchenko tandem does not buttress his argument, seeing how quickly it unraveled after the orange tents left Maidan. I’m not sure how relevant Otpor or its offspring is to the OWS or Tahrir Square folks engaging in non-violent protests. A better source might be political scientists like Erica Chenoweth at Wesleyan, or organizational theorists/management consultants who deal with bureaucratic organizations. I guess what I’m trying to say is: Earn your paycheck. Call around and speak to a few non-Gene Sharp acolytes and then let’s talk.

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By: RickSearle http://blogs.reuters.com/hugo-dixon/2012/06/29/the-revolution-will-be-organized/comment-page-1/#comment-409 Mon, 02 Jul 2012 22:59:33 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/hugo-dixon/?p=363#comment-409 I am somewhat late to this discussion, but I think the topic is sufficiently interesting that I’d like to add my two-cents in the hopes that other will also stumble upon it like I did.
Thank you for posting this Hugo. Your argument is similar to the one made by Evgeny Morozov in his excellent The Net Delusion, which was released right before the beginning of the Arab Spring, and the Occupy Wall Street Movement, seemed to be discredited by both, but ultimately might have been a better guide to how these events would unfold then the techno-utopianism that seemed to infect the media when they first occurred.
I did a blog-post called “Would Kierkegaard Tweet?” on the existential side of Morozov’s argument, which if you are interested you can check out at:
http://utopiaordystopia.com/2012/06/03/w ould-kierkegaard-tweet/
In his article Hugo drove home for me the organizational issues faced by the deliberative democracy at the heart of at least the Occupy Wall Street Movement. What I find somewhat tragic is that the OWSM seemed to represent not just a new form of politics, but potentially a new form of governance. That seems lost now. Are all movements that represent the transformation of a political system doomed to take the form of the system they replace?

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By: RickSearle http://blogs.reuters.com/hugo-dixon/2012/06/29/the-revolution-will-be-organized/comment-page-1/#comment-408 Mon, 02 Jul 2012 22:57:19 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/hugo-dixon/?p=363#comment-408 I am somewhat late to this discussion, but I think the topic is sufficiently interesting that I’d like to add my two-cents in the hopes that other will also stumble upon it like I did.

Thank you for posting this Hugo. Your argument is similar to the one made by Evgeny Morozov in his excellent The Net Delusion, which was released right before the beginning of the Arab Spring, and the Occupy Wall Street Movement, seemed to be discredited by both, but ultimately might have been a better guide to how these events would unfold then the techno-utopianism that seemed to infect the media when they first occurred.
I did a blog-post called “Would Kierkegaard Tweet?” on the existential side of Morozov’s argument, which if you are interested you can check out at:

http://utopiaordystopia.com/2012/06/03/w ould-kierkegaard-tweet/

In his article Hugo drove home for me the organizational issues faced by the deliberative democracy at the heart of at least the Occupy Wall Street Movement. What I find somewhat tragic is that the OWSM seemed to represent not just a new form of politics, but potentially a new form of governance. That seems lost now.

Are all movements that represent the transformation of a political system doomed to take the form of the system they hope to replace?

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By: Amack http://blogs.reuters.com/hugo-dixon/2012/06/29/the-revolution-will-be-organized/comment-page-1/#comment-403 Sat, 30 Jun 2012 17:30:08 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/hugo-dixon/?p=363#comment-403 Any true revolution of thought will have to be, by necessity, a leaderless revolt against tyranny of the kleptocracy. If one creates a leader and he his destroyed, through violence, corruption or slander, the whole movement dies. Why take the chance of that happening?
A top business man once said “I have marketing people run my company. I have accountants to make sure they are honest and I have lawyers watching the accountants.I watch the lawyers.” You have to have a technocratic management team running the show with checks and balances, to keep them honest.

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By: g3e http://blogs.reuters.com/hugo-dixon/2012/06/29/the-revolution-will-be-organized/comment-page-1/#comment-402 Sat, 30 Jun 2012 14:21:55 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/hugo-dixon/?p=363#comment-402 “Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.” The author and his academic sources don’t seem to notice the contradiction in what they’re saying. That is, that democratic movements can’t succeed unless they are undemocratically organized with a dictatorial head or junta to “knock heads together and get everybody to stick to a plan.” Karl Marx believed that there would be a “dictatorship of the proletariat” which would fade away to produce true communism. The Soviet Union’s dictatorship did indeed fade away, but it was followed by the pseudo-democratic autocracy of Vladimir Putin, not communism. The Romans tried electing their “dictator” who would voluntarily step down after the wars were over, but that didn’t last long, ending when Julius decided to call himself Caesar and become emperor rather than step down. It’s not yet politically or academically respectable to say that all forms of government evolve to become dictatorships or monarchies, so we end up with incoherent articles like this one.

Face it, democracy is hard. It requires the people to elect representatives, not leaders. It requires the people to communicate thoughtfully with those representatives, and the representatives to reasonably and thoughtfully work with each other on common problems. When major political movements are based on the premise that negative campaign ads work better than constructive discussion, that cooperation is evil and that members of other political parties are traitors, democracy will continue to deteriorate.

Social media have the opportunity to bypass power-hungry leaders and allow the people to communicate directly with each other, making it possible for leaderless democratic movements to react and refocus more efficiently and rapidly than ever before, but their technical architecture with centralized software and servers makes them just as corruptible as the old fashioned political machines that used smoke-filled back rooms instead of giant server farms.

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By: flashrooster http://blogs.reuters.com/hugo-dixon/2012/06/29/the-revolution-will-be-organized/comment-page-1/#comment-400 Sat, 30 Jun 2012 06:31:25 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/hugo-dixon/?p=363#comment-400 This was one of the most interesting op-eds I’ve read in quite some time. Thank you, Hugo Dixon, for an excellent run through of a topic that needs much more discussion and understanding.

I think the vast majority of Americans will agree that our country is in a bad place, politically speaking. The trouble is that we can’t seem to reach a consensus on what needs to be done. In fact, the country is roughly split down the middle with each of the two sides having nearly antipodal views on how to go about fixing things, and one side in particular has grown increasingly unwilling to compromise. You can’t have a working democracy without compromise.

I’ve come to believe that we’re facing the most serious threat to our Republic since the Civil War, and I don’t say that lightly. There are many overlapping layers to our problems, but I believe the core issue is that the American people are no longer being represented by our government, and as long as that’s true we won’t be able to work out our differences or solve our problems. Individuals and industries have evolved to a realization that they can, not only influence our government, but actually control our government, and do so in ways that are very lucrative. And they’ve done so with amazing and disturbing ease.

They can get our government to do most anything and factions of our government have found it rather easy to get the people to go along. The Iraq War is a perfect case in point. Never has the US been coaxed into a major military conflict with such ease. Vietnam to much longer before serious involvement and once the fighting began, it wasn’t long before an anti-war movement began. So many unanswered questions concerning the run-up to the Iraq war, and we’ve just moved on without learning anything from a war that should never have taken place. We don’t even appreciate just how big a deal that is.

The process of passing the Affordable Care Act is another example of a different sort. No rational person can say that the US healthcare system doesn’t need serious reform, and yet special interests in the healthcare and insurance industries are so powerful that they’ve made it nearly impossible to get something done for our country that needed to be done. Putting the pros and cons of the final legislation aside, the forces that don’t want change to a healthcare system that desperately needed changing are in a position to prevent any change. That’s big. It goes beyond political parties because the Affordable Care Act is built around a conservative idea. So here was a conservative idea designed by a man with the Heritage Foundation and first implemented by a Republican governor (who, ironically, is now running for President on the promise to repeal the ACA) and was being proposed by a Democratic President and backed by the Democratic Party. That’s the closest we can possibly come to a consensus on a major piece of legislation, and look what happened. It is nothing short of a miracle that it made it into law and survived a Supreme Court challenge. And Republicans are still promising that the fight isn’t over, that they will stop “Obamacare”. What more proof does any American need to realize that “our” government is no longer ours? This was the Republicans’ idea.

Yes, despite the quarter billion dollars spent combating the ACA and all the political opposition, it did pass. However, it’s still too early to say whether it will survive and, more importantly, the powers that have exerted so much influence in the fight against tampering with America’s healthcare status quo are only growing stronger. If they can take us to war whenever it suits them and prevent us for making improvements to something as important as our healthcare, then we no longer have a government that represents us. That being the case, we no longer have a democracy.

In my opinion, the weapon of choice being used, purchased with the enormous wealth of these plutocrats, is propaganda. As long as they can control the information, they can control just about everything. I already mentioned the quarter of a billion dollars effectively spent demonizing the ACA. We’ve reached a point where I believe people have more misinformation than they do the truth. Millions of Americans will cast votes in the upcoming election based on misinformation. I saw a poll six months into the Iraq War where 70% of the American people believe Saddam Hussein was behind the 9/11 attacks. As a cousin of mine said to me, “Everyone knows that Saddam Hussein was behind 9/11.” That should be unacceptable. What happened to the outrage? You know something’s not right when Americans show tremendous outrage over an attempt to improve their healthcare and show none at all when we’re cozened into fighting an unnecessary war.

So what do you do? How do we get past a multi-billion dollar propaganda campaign that few Americans even know exists? Any organizing that threatens those in power, the real power brokers, will be easily denigrated and neutered through bought members of our government and our news media. The news media problem is not so much what they tell us; it’s what they don’t inform us about, with the exception of FOX News. They are the closest thing we have to a direct propaganda channel.

It’s all going to get much worse. Once a snowball starts rolling, you’ve lost control over it and there’s no telling how big it’s going to get and have far it will roll.

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By: usagadfly http://blogs.reuters.com/hugo-dixon/2012/06/29/the-revolution-will-be-organized/comment-page-1/#comment-399 Sat, 30 Jun 2012 03:35:10 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/hugo-dixon/?p=363#comment-399 “Nonviolent combat”?? Isn’t that a bit like promiscuous chastity?? Nonviolent revolutions are supposed to be secret ballot free elections, are they not? But then, if you give them a free vote, the hoi polloi sometimes do not seem to understand which side of your bread is buttered. Perhaps political theater does work better. For a while. At least it has here, so far.

Sounds a lot like continued American political meddling in countries we do not understand.

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By: SamuelReich http://blogs.reuters.com/hugo-dixon/2012/06/29/the-revolution-will-be-organized/comment-page-1/#comment-398 Fri, 29 Jun 2012 23:18:34 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/hugo-dixon/?p=363#comment-398 They need know what they want in the end and force their own leader to give it. They need have a plan turn functions over to people who know how to run those functions, not revolutionaries, once the war is over. A saw or speaker factory has to be run by some one good at that not someone good at war of revolutionary politics or even worst a dynasty builder.

Most revolutions beget absolute kings with a different title.

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