India Insight

Holbrooke, an unseasonal visitor?

April 8, 2009

Richard Holbrooke, the special U.S envoy to Pakistan and Afghanistan, is visiting India for a second time in seven weeks. But what has surprised many is the timing of the trip, coming as it does at a time when India is preparing for a general election and most government business is virtually on hold.Though India is not part of Holbrooke’s remit, New Delhi’s engagement is imperative for any effort to stabilise the so-called Af-Pak region.But that hardly explains the visit now, considering that he could expect to do little business with a “lame duck government” in New Delhi.So why is he coming now?Many Indian analysts believe that keeping India and Kashmir out of Holbrooke’s brief was a way of Washington massaging New Delhi’s ego.In reality, though, they say India is very much part of Holbrooke’s mandate because Pakistan wants a solution to disputed Kashmir as an element of any regional peace efforts — a demand Washington can hardly ignore if it expects Pakistan’s cooperation.An Indian analyst here says Holbrooke is using the interregnum to show his turf includes India.So if it is impossible to disentangle Kashmir from any effort to win Pakistani cooperation to stabilise Afghanistan, where does that leave India-U.S relations?

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Though US concerns about AFPAK is understood in India, and Indians also want to be part of continued US action in AFPAK. US can not though link it with improved relationship or solution Kashmir issue , India has and is still desirous of good relations with Pakistan and other neighbours, the onus of good neighbourhood lies more with Pakistan, recent 26/11 attacks in Mumbai by Pakistanis and resultant non action on the part of Pakistan , are clear enough proof of Pakistani misadventure in India. Pakistan must stop all anti Indian activities from its soil, must destroy terrorist training camps in different part of Pakistan and allow us to live in peace , and a good neighbourly behaviour are the basis for imprved relationship with Pakistan .Pakistan is a nation in chaos, presence of nuclear weapons pose greatest threat to humanity , US must make all efforts to secure the nuclear arsenal before they are fallen in the hands of talibans and other jehadi elements.

Posted by Manish | Report as abusive
 

India and US can only go downhill from here,

Posted by Ajay | Report as abusive
 

Sorry, the previous post should’ve read “India and US relations can only go downhill from here”

Posted by Ajay | Report as abusive
 

India can also fuction as a US back channel to iran and russia two countries with which the US has frosty relations but crucial players in the afghan scenario with a monopoly on non Pak routes into afghanistan so maybe this is also a back channel negotiation to Iran or something.

Posted by duryodhan | Report as abusive
 

Pakistani officials behaved like a bunch of impolite, spoilt school boys during Mr. Holbrooke’s visit. They behaved this way TO GET WHAT THEY WANT. The USA needs to have their ‘trust’ in fighting the terrorists. Therefore the USA will be more receptive to them. Part of this reception will be to push India to limit its presence in Afghanistan to “please” Pakistan. India is spending millions of dollars in infrastructure projects in Afghanistan (AND NOT TERRORISM). The US has bought the Pakistan military’s line that India’s presence in Afghanistan is a threat to them. Since Obama has attached conditions to the $1.5 billion a year aid; Pakistan has attached its conditions. The frustration and resentment in Pakistan about the aid conditions – which reflect American distrust of the Pakistani army.Time and time again Pakistan is reminded that India is not the enemy; the Taliban is.The USA will NOT push India into this equation to appease Pakistan to fight the terrorist outfits that Pakistan created.

Posted by bulletfish | Report as abusive
 

The Author“So if it is impossible to disentangle Kashmir from any effort to win Pakistani cooperation to stabilise Afghanistan, where does that leave India-U.S relations?”—So if it is impossible to disentangle Kashmir from any effort to win Pakistani cooperation to stabilize Afghanistan, Where does that leave Pak-U.S. relations?-Because the writing on the wall is clear – if you want to keep relations with India then de-hyphenate the Kashmir word, leave it for amateur journo’s to amuse themselves & get practice in mental gymnastics…@duryodhan—It seems so that an all inclusive AFghan policy being spoken of recently is Holbrooke’s brain-child.It’s found mention in Obama’s recent speech also…

Posted by anup | Report as abusive
 

Finally, Pakistan has shown some hope that their back bone has not been completley eroded by hypocricy. Its about time that American and NATO (North American Terrorist Organization) be removed from any country. We have had enough of American imperialism. As for those people who think that America is India’s friend. Just wait and watch. America has no friends. They have only interests. History is a proof of this fact. But only those know history realize this.

Posted by Truth | Report as abusive
 

Err..? Truth,-Could Pakistan please show this same ‘so-called’ backbone to the Taliban and other terrorists? Why would Pakistan do this when members of its ISI are in cahoots with the terrorists and starts sulking like a child when accused of this by the USA.-Do not forget the $1.5 billion per year aid from the USA that Pakistan will receive. So please do not slap away the hand that gives you money. Then again, Pakistan wants the money with no conditions and that is upsetting resulting in impolite behaviour.-It was only the US officals who received this impolite reception from the Pakistanis and not NATO.-Do not forget, Pakistan is a very, very, important non-aligned NATO ally in the war on terror.-Us Indians know that USA is not a friend; just like China is NOT Pakistan’s friend. Every country acts in its own interests. China REBUFFED Pakistan sending it all the way to Dubai to meet with the IMF for money.

Posted by bulletfish | Report as abusive
 

In reality Holbrook’s mandate well includes India and Kashmir and not just Pakistan and Afghanistan. It was just not publicly stated for India to save face, after getting civilian nuclear deal and termed a ‘strategic allies’ Washington doesnt want to be appearing to boss Delhi in public. In private the message is clear, hey look get this Kashmir crap sorted out. Why else could he be visiting Delhi, did he wanted luddo or kheer? he could have got that in Islamabad.All Indian friends! say hello to Uncle Sam, he will be back soon.

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive
 

Dear human ,we never wanted the pakistanis or indians as our MASTERSKashmir belongs to usBye

 

Unable to think and act strategically, the Indian leadership has helped turn India into a classic lamb State that can be continually gored without fear of retribution.http://www.asianage.com/pres entation/columnisthome/brahma-chellaney/ pak-terror-is-bribe-ruse.aspxSay hello to uncle Sam- (Rick C. Holbrooke)

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive
 

Those who knows SA truely, and those who learns from history, will understand that short term peace could be won by force but for a sustainable and durable peace, we could only hope if we address all outstanding disputes and core issues.Thanks to the invention of cruel and merciless weapons such as Nuke, that no could ignore or supress others rights.If we should blame any one for the suffering of mankind especially people under the guns in Pakistan/Afganistan then that any one should be US (both government and military) and Pakistan corrupt civillian (politicians) leadership and military officers. These groups do business on blood of innocent, poor, ill educated people.

Posted by Abid | Report as abusive
 

Why people here are so afraid of “K” word … and by the way why Inda is investing so much in Afghanistan .. just to undermine Pakistan influance… the fact is India is the part of the problem in this region wether it is Kashmir or now Afghanistan…

Posted by sal | Report as abusive
 

@umairwe have seen growing evidence that Pakistan army is actively attempting to disrupt the US Af-Pak strategy by redirecting a great deal of focus on the Indian border.we have had some really serious attemps this month and in march..and intelligance reports have suggested that this gonna increase.our agencies have seen a three-fold increase in infiltration from Pakistan this March compared to the same time last year. The terrorists are openly being assisted by the Pak army-intelligence .firstly for india the most impotant thing is to conduct peaceful general elections in India as this is something the elements in pak army and intelligance definately doesn’t want.india would be happy to resume dialogue with Islamabad after pakistan prosecutes the Mumbai accused like Zaki-ur-Rehman Lakhvi and Zarar Shah and closes down the terror camps in PoK that are targeting India. so india would also have conditions and as in case of pakistan , usa cannot armtwist india..as neither we are source of taliban nor we depend on usa for aid.If the US can get Pakistan to act on these baseline demands, India would return to talks.

Posted by Raging bull | Report as abusive
 

@umair says”Unable to think and act strategically, the Indian leadership has helped turn India into a classic lamb State that can be continually gored without fear of retribution.”well umair i don’t agree with that article completly, but yes we indians don’t live in denial…so may be u r right but u have forgotten something ..india is not china where there are autocratic communists or cuba with a dictator..and ofcourse not pakistan where u dont really know wheather to talk about kashmir issue or any issue we have to speak to army. the president MR 10% or PM gilani..india is a VIBRANT DEMOCRACY and it has been like this for 60 years of independance except for one year of emergency which actually strenghtened our democracy and our faith in it … so if there is a problem with the leadership..it will be changed..So as far as india’s leadership is concerned don’t be overjoyed about it because we can always through up good leaders who would take necessary actions.

Posted by Raging bull | Report as abusive
 

King of Kashmir—Kashmir belongs to us – Kashmiri Pandits!

Posted by anup | Report as abusive
 

Umair writes: “Unable to think and act strategically, the Indian leadership has helped turn India into a classic lamb State that can be continually gored without fear of retribution.”The boldness shown by the Pakistani establishment and its Jihadi elements is due to its nuclear strength. Wait until Iran gets its nuke exploded. There is a book called “Deception,” written by a couple of European authors where it details the clandestine operations of AQ Khan in building the Islamic bomb. It clearly mentions that the CIA, Pentagon and successive US governments knew exactly what was going on. But geo-political priorities in the region made them turn a blind eye to the developments. Khan stole a technology that can make the bomb more efficiently and at a much lower cost, based on Uranium enrichment. So in a short span of time, they can stock pile an enormous amount of bombs. The Americans have looked at Pakistan’s nuclear command structure and have given it more control. India has not done most of it. Even today, it is not clear who gets to call the shots in the case of a nuclear attack.The scenario does not look good for India. It is unfortunate that we are stuck in the neighborhood of nations mired in religious fanatics and terrorists, sponsored and supported by a military that owns a nation. And like the article says, Indian leaders have not shown any bold leadership. The outside powers do not understand the gravity of the situation, which puts India at a major risk. Kashmir is not the problem or the solution to the current crisis. Even if India ejects Kashmir, nothing would change. Taliban will walk into Kashmir and the jihadi training camps will move in right away to create a two pronged approach towards American forces. And India would be viewed as more vulnerable.It is only a matter of time now. There is going to be a terrible terrorist strike inside India during the elections. Fortunately they moved the IPL to safe shores. But elections cannot be moved anywhere else. Though it is easy to laugh at India for its situation, there is no other alternative. India should keep its military on full alert and be ready to launch an offensive if any problem occurs. There is no point playing to the enemy’s rules. India must be busy engaging in defense plans with Russia and the US to make a master plan that will benefit all. One never knows, they might have discussed it during Holbrooke’s visit to Delhi.

 

As far as US’s influence on india’s foreign policy is concerned check the following interview given by National Security Adviser (NSA) M.K. Narayanan on 2feb 2009New Delhi, Feb 2 (IANS) Rejecting any attempt to link the Kashmir issue with violence in Pakistan’s tribal areas, National Security Adviser (NSA) M.K. Narayanan has said US President Barack Obama would be “barking up the wrong tree” if he subscribes to such views.”References made by President Obama did seem to suggest that there is some kind of a link between the settlement on Pakistan’s western border and the Kashmir issue. Certainly that had caused concern,” NarayananThe reference to India or Kashmir was finally excluded from the brief of Holbrooke after India’s vehement opposition to such a suggestion.Check the full interview on the following link.http://www.thaindian.com/newsportal  /india-news/nsa-cautions-us-against-bar king-up-the-wrong-tree-on-kashmir_100150 206.html

Posted by Raging bull | Report as abusive
 

Mauryan”A massive war is coming.”—Kargil 2 is on already at the border…

Posted by anup | Report as abusive
 

the media’s interpretation of the slightest development in indo-pak relations is the most challenging problem. The media reads much more into political events than exists in reality.As for the Hoolbroke’s visit, the U.S. is concerned more about the signals it sends out on AFPAK rather than the general elections in India. Hoolbroke’s visit was an attempt to impress on the global community that the U.S. is adopting a truly regional approach to Afghanistan. The U.S. found it essential to communicate this fact immediately rather than wait for a month after the elections in India took place in India.

 

umair is that a joke..it must be..pakistani military and political leadership has realised that its not at all possible to go for an all out war agaisn’t india.. and that’s why they are doing this proxy war.. if there is an all out war…pakistan will be divided into 5 peices this time …but yes , right now save urself for taliban…. and..lets fight some other time..

Posted by Raging bull | Report as abusive
 

Umair,Agreed that India’s diplomacy for fighting against(Pakistani) sponsored terrorism has not been super-duper. But it has changed Pakistan to confess what it has never done so far (from who is Kasab? to kasab is Pakistani and attack plan is from Pakistani soil–It is not small-I know u will be pissed of with ur govt/army or whosever controls Pakistan). Qn: What is Pakistan doing for its citizens against terrorism?–Going on all its fours in front of Bad Taliban and dressing up Good Taliban with Paki Army Greens, bought with US $$$$.If you believe this article, it also said:“THE VISITORS (FOREIGN LEADERS) ARE NOT STUPID NOT TO KNOW THAT CROSS-BORDER TERRORISM WOULD NOT END EVEN IF INDIA WERE TO OFFER KASHMIR ON A PLATTER TO PAKISTAN. After all, the self-declared mission of the Lashkar-e-Tayyaba — still actively aided by the Pakistani intelligence — is “global jihad”, with the specific goal to set up a caliphate across southern, central and southeastern Asia.”—Kashmiris must notice this. This is not about you kashmiris-but Kashmir just like it is not about Baluchis, but Baluchistan.“And as was shown by the 1999 Kargil invasion, when Pakistani Army regulars encroached masquerading as “mujahideen”, a thin line can separate the military establishment from its pet terror groups.”—-Umair, Pakistan is a classic case of a nation that has full diplomatic contacts with the world, but was almost declared a terrorist state and is viewed as a terrorist organization.“The real issue is not Kashmir but the Pakistani military, which, after six decades of direct and indirect rule, has become too fat to return to the barracks. Indeed, it won’t fit in the barracks.”“To retain its power and prerogative in society, the military needs the India-threat bogey. The military genuinely believes that a Pakistan stripped of its core cementing element — eternal enmity with India — would be reduced to a battlefield for its five feuding ethnic groups. It has thus kept alive the Kashmir issue.”“The blunt truth is that Kashmir is not the cause but the symbol of India-Pakistan differences”“AS GENERAL PERVEZ MUSHARRAF CANDIDLY PUT IT IN A 1999 SPEECH, PAKISTAN’S LOW-INTENSITY WAR WITH INDIA WOULD CONTINUE EVEN IF THE KASHMIR ISSUE WERE MAGICALLY RESOLVED. The military for long has fancied India’s Balkanisation as Pakistan’s salvation.”—Why is it unfair to call MUSHARRAF as a terrorist? and did you say he was working for peace with India?Also read this:http://www.9-11commission.gov/repor t/911Report_Ch4.htm“the State Department had been heavily focused on rising tensions between India and Pakistan and did not aggressively challenge Pakistan on Afghanistan and Bin Ladin. But State Department counterterrorism officials wanted a stronger position; the department’s acting counterterrorism coordinator advised Secretary Albright to designate Pakistan as a state sponsor of terrorism, noting that despite high-level Pakistani assurances, the country’s military intelligence service continued “activities in support of international terrorism” by supporting attacks on civilian targets in Kashmir.”You escaped once but how long would you last on this path—I think in ur lifetime you will see that.BTW, Pakistan is a reality right now.

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive
 

@Why people here are so afraid of “K” word … and by the way why Inda is investing so much in Afghanistan .. just to undermine Pakistan influance… the fact is India is the part of the problem in this region wether it is Kashmir or now Afghanistan…- Posted by sal@Why people here are so afraid of “K” word …–people are afraid of P-word.http://www.9-11commission.gov/rep ort/911Report_Ch4.htm“the State Department had been heavily focused on rising tensions between India and Pakistan and did not aggressively challenge Pakistan on Afghanistan and Bin Ladin. But State Department counterterrorism officials wanted a stronger position; the department’s acting counterterrorism coordinator advised Secretary Albright to designate Pakistan as a state sponsor of terrorism, noting that despite high-level Pakistani assurances, the country’s military intelligence service continued “activities in support of international terrorism” by supporting attacks on civilian targets in Kashmir.”@and by the way why India is investing so much in Afghanistan–India is part of the solution- only non military, infrastructure development, just like our good old friend China is doing in pakistan-Gawdar port etc. Pakistan gave Afganistan the gift of Taliban who caused detstruction–India is spending more than a billion US$ to undo that–is that a crime?@just to undermine Pakistan influance-insecurity complex? Pak can have influence if it can do- for that pak needs something +ve to offer–none right now–so it can only impose itself-bad for Af. and the region. We are peace-loving Paki neigbors with a documented history of firing only in defense–and have been doing a good job with that.

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive
 

“We did not come here to ask the Indians to do anything, we came here to inform them about our trip as we always do and to get their views. We did not come here with any requests,” Holbrooke told reporters.-To put it this way, we do not want to be told by India what to do. Rather we are telling India what we have decided to do and have already begun doing it. This is a slap on the face to Indian leaders, after David Milliband , Richard Holbrooke doing straight talk under the nose of Indian leaders inside their house(New Delhi).

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive
 

Lastly, Mauryan all of above madness can be averted by proactive diplomacy, whats your take?- Posted by Umair–Umair and Mauryan: I will “infiltrate” into the discussion.Umair, your insights on ur suugestion? Indian problem is Pakistani-sponsored terrorism–Pakistani confesses that. Pakistani problem is also Pakistani-sponsored terrorism–this is a even bigger issue for you–you just narrowly escaped–The then Secretary Albright (before 9/11) was advised to designate Pakistan as a state sponsor of terrorism. Just find a way that u convince ur self that terrorism will not help any cause; will aggravate the problem; remove each and every terrorist as defined by India and Pakistan. You know who are terrorists acc. to India. There are certain projects which are achievable and others cannot be–so make sure both India and Pakistan identify those–the win-win projects and work to reach the goals.Imagine the difference it will make if the money being spent on terrorism/counter-terrorism is spent on the elimination of poverty and illitracy. I think it is a good motivation. We need to find alternate ways to express our patriorism than war cries, else the terrorists are the winners.

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive
 

@To put it this way, we do not want to be told by India what to do. Rather we are telling India what we have decided to do and have already begun doing it. This is a slap on the face to Indian leaders, after David Milliband , Richard Holbrooke doing straight talk under the nose of Indian leaders inside their house(New Delhi).- Posted by UmairUmair: :-)This is all the game of dipomacy. I saw lot of other remarks from Mr. Holbrooke which if I put here will say something opposite like —not exact quotes–we’ll strongly consider Indian suggestions for any moves in the region; K-word will never pass our lips; India is not part of the Af-Pak but the decisions will not be made by keeping them out. I will not give much weight to these quotes.You want to play that kids game–see O got this but you got only that. This is ignorable, nothings, will not help or hurt anyone–the actions speak louder than words. Plus I thought Brits and 1947-2009 history taught us a lot about such tactics–U are mature enough to know that these are usual part of diplomacy–to keep the sides/countries happy–the balancing game.

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive
 

It is a positive development for Holbrooke to discuss things in India. He is well aware that Pakistan will use every opportunity as a piggy back to bring Kashmir on the plate.Holbrooke is very well aware of India’s position of strength, which the U.S. can leverage trushworthingly and reliably. Holbrooke is also well aware that Pakistan is not to be trusted any more with free money, without producing lasting results on Terrorism. He also knows that he can count on India, if the U.S. needs more feet on the ground on the war on terror.This is also a great opportunity for Holbrooke and India to strengthen their military alliance and perhaps even build the U.S. some military bases in India, from where they can Drone Kashmiri terrorist training camps.India has time and again demonstrated that it is calculated and efficient and has the ability and maturity to be taken seriously as a Global Grade Partner with regards to nuclear, military, economic and co-operation on the war on terrorism.It is without a doubt certain that if Pakistan cannot deliver, the U.S. will consider India in a major role to deal with Pakistan. He is also aware that Pakistani influence has been only destructive for the region since its inception 60 years ago. I would not be entirely surprised if Holbrooke has discussed any plans to use India to assist the U.S. in dealing with a disintegrating Pakistan.There has never been a better time for India to form a solid Economic and Military alliance with the U.S. to maintain regional security and supremacy over rogue states, which proliferate terrorism and nuclear. technology.It would be to everybody’s benefit if India built the US military bases in Afghanistan and India, as a good gesture.

Posted by Global Watcher | Report as abusive
 

Krittivas,The Indo-US relations goes through highs and lows, based on who is sitting in the Oval office in Washington. If the US forces intervention in Kashmir or puts conditions the bi-lateral relations will nose-dive. May be that is what Pakistan is hedging on. On the other hand, if India agrees for a quick settlement in Kashmir it’ll catch Pakistan offguard leaving no excuses for fighting Taliban.

Posted by Nikhil | Report as abusive
 

Krittivas,Kashmir is not the problem, but the symptom of Pakistan’s India-tinted world view. Even if Pakistan’s manufactured fears – Kashmir, Durand line – are miraculously solved the insecurity felt by the army and the elites in Pakistan will not disappear. The Taliban are Pakistan’s strategic assets which has served it well. Solution to Kashmir or not, the Taliban in Pakistan, unfortunately, is here to stay.

Posted by Nikhil | Report as abusive
 

In my opinion, Pakistan asking for solution to Kashmir as a precondition to stopping support for terrorism is completely wrong. Terrorism must be defeated without any precondition and if you meet any of its conditions, terrorism has won. Having said that, the true aspirations of the Kashmiri people should be honestly resolved after terrorism has been defeated by making the borders irrelevant.

 

It would be wishful thinking on our part to presume that India-Pakistan-Kashmir are not in Holbrooke’s brief. The US doesn’t have to spell it out. All this talk of showing flexibility towards Pakistan etc is nothing but confirnmation of US thinking that if India and Pakistan settle Kashmir, Afghanistan will be a piece of cake.I think India is responding correctly to all this smooth talk and our response must continue to remain – you want us to talk to Pakistan? Tell them bluntly to prove they are doing something positive and not actively aiding terrorists and their camps to flourish within Pakistan. All this cosmetic talk is just rubbish. Even right now, they are attempting infiltration of militants in groups of 40 odd. What flexibility should India show? Send them guides? If The Pakistanis think that this is the way they will manage to grab Kashmir, let them continue to live in their dream world. They are experts at bluffing themselves anyway. But one must grant the Pakistanis one thing – they are gluttons for punishment.Till the US stops pussy footing with Pakistan and trying to interpret and see everything that happens here only in terms of how it effects US security concerns, they will continue to flounder. India was the first country to offer assistance to the US after 9/11. The US didn’t accept because the Pakistanis, extracted a price, as always. India was to be kept out if the US wanted transit rights through Pakistan for logostic purposes. They made their choice – now make Pakistan deliver.

 

Since its inception Pakistan want others (UN, US and others)to mediate on the controversial issue of Kashmir. But by now it remains failed to persuade anyone to do this task as the other party (India) was not ready for it. It believes that bilateral issues should be resolved through bilateral talks. This is probably the best time for Pakistan to pressurize US to mediate or at least help the conflicting parties to negotiate as it is facing stiff resistance from Taliban in Afghanistan and adjoining areas of Pakistan. US believes that it would be quite difficult to win this ‘war on terror’ without the active support of Pakistan.Although, external situation favors Pakistan, internally it is too weak as a state to bargain or agree to some mutually accepted proposal. Its political class is too weak to take any decision and many experts believe that Pakistan is totally a ‘failed state’ that is losing its control of existence. In such a situation one cannot expect the Kashmir issue to be solved. All hopes shattered when even the civilian government failed to bring out any change in the situation. I think Pakistan needs some more time to take such major policy decisions.

Posted by Hari K. Sharma | Report as abusive
 

I agree with you Raging Bull…Everyone knows that, that is why they employ guerrilla tactics (what you call proxy wars) It’s part of the strategy to confuse and distract the enemy and you must admit Raging Bull that they (Pakistani Hostiles, No innocent folk included) are pretty good at it.They are really good at chewing little pieces of the lamb, and for the size and state of the nation that tactic is correct. You can not blame them, this is how anyone else in their position would play it out.

Posted by Illaria | Report as abusive
 

Dear Global Watcher one is aware that the US might find benefit in allowing this to play out with Indian and PakistanA-For the Base that the US would like to build in India andB- For the Arms it could sell to India if a war does break out.India is a straight forward country…They Indian Government (who is very much in control of this Country) by and large are not an aggressive lot, maybe corrupt (Prim Minister Manmohan Singh Ji Excluded) But not vicious.India will play fair but lets not try to make India dependent on the American Dime. India has no intentiona of becoming a world dominator so rest assured if you want that place you got it! Yes they would like to advance and be prosperous and strong on their own.So really Lets all stop waisting time, respect them for what they are, exchange help, but do not try to change them to your ways any more than they have already.They want to work hard and develop themselves, let them do that in peace, tackle the situation in Pakistan and that region and get on with it.India will help where they can, there is no reason to be BFF\’s ( best friends forever) but what ever happened to mutual respect and that doesn\’t Involve America owning India, in some way?TO ALL INDIANS MANMOHAN SING IS A GENIUS LET HIM STAY AT THE HELM OF YOUR COUNTRY

Posted by Illaria | Report as abusive
 

Situation in Pakistan is getting worse.http://www.google.com/hostednews/a p/article/ALeqM5hkiMxbHNH0BqgpWA2ZG6VD6w VTmAD97EVLD80Swat valley peace deal is gone.Read Balochistan’s status now and its history:http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south _asia/7918173.stmhttp://www.chapatimyste ry.com/archives/homistan/the_baluchistan _issue.htmlYou know what guys,First try to keep your country in order. Then worry about Kashmir or India. Your boat is sinking.

 

Illaria: What you said does make sense. And to all those who talks about 1971, I do not think Pakistani people ever supported or defended the atrocities of 1971 against Bengalis.This true even today, I am sure majority of the Pakistanis are against the force used to crush tribal people, since a small group of people commit suicides and challenging government rit, not all patriotic tribals people.We all know of Pakistani civillian rulers since the creation of Pakistan and that is why military dictators come in power in bloodless change of power, since people still believe atleast military is somewhat desciplined even in corruption.I am not a military expert, but I do understand as I have learned from history that no power is stronger than people power, when they come out on streets then you can not crush them with any kind of weapon, be it in BD, or Palestine, or Iraq or Afganistan or lawyers moment in Pakistan. So in 1971, Pakistan army was defeated by the BLOOD of INNOCENT BEGALIS not by Indian army.

Posted by Abid | Report as abusive
 

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2009-0 4/09/content_11157780.htmIt has been sometime since Holbrooke has spent in his current role. Since he is a part of the Obama administration, he has done little to add teeth to any American interests in the region.A much more tougher and hawkish figure would be required to deal with Pakistan.In the attached article above it is evident that Pakistan, a beggar bowl status country, which is complicit with terrorism, gets money from the IMF and uses Jihadi proxy armies and instruments of foreign policy, wants to dictate terms to the U.S. how it fights terrorism and at the same time, wants 1.5 billion dollars per year AND wants American Drones.It appears the slave is trying to push the master around. Shah Mahmood Quereshi’s blunt stand is laughable, considering the Pakistani’s are issuing a veiled threat of not co-operating on fighting terrorism and perhaps even step up their efforts to support Proxy Armies, which attack the U.S. supply routes.The rest of the world sees a lying, beggar bowl terrorist promoting nation dictating terms to the U.S.It is time for the U.S. to flex its muscle in a large way. It is time for Obama to make a style statement and do some high level targeting in the Pakistani cities.Why should Washington bend to a country, which just surrendered to the Taliban, on top of this, do not want American boots on their soil, while the Taliban are being harboured by the ISI?!?!?! Is it just me or something truly absurd here?Pakistan needs to be taught a lesson and the tone needs to be set now, who is in control. The first obvious action the U.S. can do is start Droning cities. Next drone, dessimate and flatten beyond recovery, all Jihadi Proxy Army Strategic assets, which are being used as Instruments of Foreign policy. This is much cheaper than giving free cash to Pakistani’sPakistan will use the cash to build its armament against India and will use the Drones as a future strategic asset against India. The U.S. should leverage its position to the fullest extent possible and never take its foot off Pakistan’s head for a full breath of air.Holbrooke should leverage Pakistan from a position of strength and dictate terms and expect full transparent accountability.This is also a hallmark time to negotiate Pakistani denuclearization.In short, Pakistan must be made to realize that it is not in a position to dictate and the only way to do this, is for Pakistan to lose something, which the world detests, those Jihadi Army proxy strategic assets manufactured by the ISI and Pak Army.No permission is needed from Pakistan to fight terrorism. Fighting terrorism is not negotiable. No apologies need to be made with Pakistan. A more pro-active stance needs to be take with Pakistan and financial support only given on a performance basis, denuclearization and co-operation on all levels without befuddlement, excuses, convolution and obfuscation.Pakistan should be held accountable by a show of overwhelming American force, if necessary. This is the only thing they understand and respect.

Posted by Global Watcher | Report as abusive
 

US is purposely increasing the aid( military and NOn- military) to pakistan. wven whent hey know that all that money will either end in the hands of corrupt army or the terrorists.. FOr the sole purpose..that they know when u give pakistan 4 F-16′s Indian will pitch in to buy more of them from US..See now India has alrady pitched in to buy more than 100 F-18S’s in a 12B$ order..so US is loosing nothing but infact gaining more to keep its defense machinery functioning with new orders which inturn will churn up its economy..

Posted by Anitha | Report as abusive
 

A newer, more bloody carnage is about to be inflicted on the innocents in Islamabad. Pakistan’s peace deal making with the SWAT Taliban was useless, as the Taliban have vowed to take Islamabad and are just 60km from Islamabad.The question is, then, is Pakistan prepared to face the 8th century head on? Pakistani’s the army, police and many innocents will be killed, butchered and maimed in the near future by the Taliban, if the Pak Army and ISI cease to provide ample force to stop them.This is the point where Pakistan will begin to unravel, in about 4-5 months as it is not beyond imagination that Sleeper Cells in Islamabad have already been planted by the Taliban to turn on at the right time. If they come soon, there will be an ensuing bloodbath and carnage on the streets, which will escalate to uncontrollable levels.This is when the gates of hell will open in Pakistan and the devil will have his leisure, if Pakistan fails to act NOW.

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@US is purposely increasing the aid( military and NOn- military) to pakistan. wven whent hey know that all that money will either end in the hands of corrupt army or the terrorists.. FOr the sole purpose..that they know when u give pakistan 4 F-16’s Indian will pitch in to buy more of them from US..See now India has alrady pitched in to buy more than 100 F-18S’s in a 12B$ order..so US is loosing nothing but infact gaining more to keep its defense machinery functioning with new orders which inturn will churn up its economy..- Posted by Anitha–Means indirectly it is Indian money reaching Pakistan, which gives to anti-India Jihadis.Is it War on Terror (WOT) or waste of time (WOT)?–same as American money goes to Saudis when US burns so much gasoline each day and Saudis give it to Pakistan and both give to Islamic terrorists.—-solution here is finding alternative sources of energy–underway.

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Global Watcher: I am glad you used all your head to pick your nick but unfortunately either you do not have enough knowledge and understanding of world politics or not grown enough.It is nice to ask someone else to do things for you, in this case asking US to attack cities but ask you daddy (yes your real father if you are not grown enough) to help you read through some history books especially history of Iraq and Vietnam war and relationship between PAK and IND from 1947 till todate.

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Rajeev:You summed it up nicely. In fact this no war against no one rather it is a circus where every one want to win. After USSR disintegration, US was trying to find an enemy as an excuse for tax payers to keep big military spendings, and since no country was big enough to target as a long lasting enemy therefore, it was convenient to name your enemy Al Qaida, which is in every country and can not be eliminated, so you can have an enemy for as long as you want. And as long as you keep fights around the globe, you can keep selling weapons.Imagine, if PAK and IND resolve all issues peacefully, N Korea and S Korea and Japan resolve all difference, and there is no Isreal vs Palestine war, who will buy these billions dollars worth jet and millions dollars worth missile? Only option left is to go and bombs others, so US govt is keep buying these (on tax payers money), since these weapon producing factories are mostly own by jewish influential mafia in US.So no matter how many people we kill and eliminate, these weapon producing nations will create more targets and dispute around the globe.

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Global watcher:@A newer, more bloody carnage is about to be inflicted on the innocents in Islamabad. Pakistan’s peace deal making with the SWAT Taliban was useless, as the Taliban have vowed to take Islamabad and are just 60km from Islamabad.—Last time I checked, Taliban was 110Km away from Islamabad. They cannot strolling around for 50Km unless they mean something. Sadly, as Taliban always does, I expect a show of power–beheadings in the near future. Wait, is this good Taliban?-I hope Pakistanis channelize their peoples’ power to change the Pakistani Army monkey play if they want to come back on track. As Abid said when people on the street are big power. One does not need another 1971 situation to have people on the street. People need to take care if the following:A link posted by “Posted by Pragmatic Euphony » Focus on Pakistan, not Holbrooke” says this: “There are doubts whether the Obama strategy in Pakistan will succeed. It will probably need a severe mid-course connection once the US realises that the association between the jehadis and the Pakistani military-intelligence establishment is NOT MERELY OF THE STRATEGIC ASSET TYPE, BUT MORE OF THE UMBILICAL RELIGIOUS-IDEOLOGICAL VARIETY. The strategic asset excuse, is now the more politically correct — or the less politically incorrect — version, which lures many in the Obama establishment to believe that a rational plan by the US will push the Pakistani army to take on the jehadis.”

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Abid writes: “US was trying to find an enemy as an excuse for tax payers to keep big military spendings, and since no country was big enough to target as a long lasting enemy therefore, it was convenient to name your enemy Al Qaida, which is in every country and can not be eliminated, so you can have an enemy for as long as you want.”Abid,I beg to disagree here. US was done with the dismantling of the USSR. There were enough things to keep it busy – helping the new nations that sprung out of the Soviet Union. In 1991, they went after Saddam Hussein. Then Yugoslavia fell apart. They went back to their world – Central America, South America, Europe and new Russia, Israel. They never cared about our part of the world. Veni, Vidi, Vici.They had no understanding of the cancer that was developing in Afghanistan/Pakistan. Central Asian republics began to experience Islamic resurgence and Bin Laden got busy. Had they left the US to mind its own business, and if 9/11 had not happened, the US wouldn’t have cared if anyone existed in our part of the world or not. There would have been some lip service and that’s about it. Bin Laden made a huge tactical mistake. He could have carved out an Islamic empire starting from Afghanistan, Central Asia and could have gobbled up many Islamic countries rich in oil and natural gas. But he hurried up and screwed up big time. Now he is living in caves.9/11 in a way has saved India. Had it not happened, there would be no US in Afghanistan and India could have been crippled by the Al Qaeda/Taliban/LeT/ISI/Pakistani military system. That’s what Musharraf was dreaming of. But militant people make emotional mistakes. They lose their minds and think too much about themselves.Now the situation is intractable. There is no going back. The US will finish its job one way or another. India is gaining a lot by this. They don’t have to spend their resources while the US begins to clean up the place using its money. India never wanted the US to come to this region in the first place. Well, one cannot rewrite history. But in the end, good people win. Bad guys die. And everyone lived happily ever after.

 

Rajeev writes: “Pakistan’s peace deal making with the SWAT Taliban was useless, as the Taliban have vowed to take Islamabad and are just 60km from Islamabad.”What do you think Taliban’s strategy is? I guess the Taliban is trying to find a safe base to operate from with more security for its own survival. It knows that the US has agreed not to invade Pakistan for now. The mountainous regions of FATA can be safe haven for now, but in the long run, it would be good to have a country under its control. If it can take over Pakistan’s critical areas (capital, military, intelligence etc), others will have no say. Then it can act as a government or keep a puppet government under its control. If the US imposes sanctions at that time, Taliban will not care. It is used to existing in such conditions.It is going to turn ugly. The Pakistani military, in its desperate bid to wriggle out of the situation, might do something stupid like attacking India or doing something on a large scale inside India. That is the only thing that would unite all Pakistanis and shift the whole thing in a different direction. India has to be on high alert in order to avoid any such moves. If it manages to hold tight, then Pakistan will be swallowed by the Taliban. This will bring the US into direct war with Pakistan. Most allies of the US turned into its enemies in this part of the world – Iran, Iraq and now Pakistan.Let us hope China does not walk in when the US missiles face Pakistan. If China gets desperate due to economic crisis at home and tries deflect the attention by getting involved in a large scale conflict, this would be it. WW III would have begun.

 

The Taliban being 60 km;s away. I think someone should get their facts right. They are right there in the GHQ and ISI. I am not a Pakistani basher but I am more of a realist. The military is doing more harm than good by not acting. It is people like us, the educated,who are being lost and we detest the army(the pakistan) one to the hilt.Why are we paying our taxes just so that the army generals enjoy a good life etc. I think there should then be a balkanization of Pakistan and we the people of Sind can vote to be independent. We dont need the army nor Pakistan( rather I should call it Punjabistan).A war should be waged and it shouldnt be any piece meal attempt.No negotiations . These people should be pursued.Strict laws against suicide bombings like Israel’s where there should be collective punishment,the religious people etc should be tasked to educate people in detesting these acts.Holbrooke should be more straight.Tell the Pak Army bluntly if they dont finish then the US will just do it! This will get some sense in Kayani, who already has his son in the US.

Posted by Suleman Maniya,Goteborg,Sweden | Report as abusive
 

Rajeev writes: “Pakistan’s peace deal making with the SWAT Taliban was useless, as the Taliban have vowed to take Islamabad and are just 60km from Islamabad.”-by mauryanMauryan:This one is by Global Watcher.

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If Only Words Could Do the TrickAyaz Amir(Pakistan Diary)http://www.khaleejtimes.com/Displa yArticle.asp?xfile=data/opinion/2009/Apr il/opinion_April45.xml&section=opinion&c ol=The Americans can turn Afghanistan around but only with the kind of commitment for which they have no stomachFrom Amit Kumar somewhere across the planet comes this somewhat puckish email: “Dear Sir, Would you kindly clarify as to which flavour of Taleban — the freedom fighters in Afghanistan or the Pakistani Taleban — was responsible for the blast at the Shia shrine in Chakwal? Since you always take pains to shed light on the delicate difference between the two, I thought you would be the best authority on this rather abstruse subject. It leaves everyone confused, including, I must add, the Taleban.”Touche. Whatever the holy fervour of the Taleban — for I guess those were the elements behind the Chakwal attack — what quarrel do they have with the Shia faithful of Chakwal? And how does killing and maiming the innocent advance any cause, just or unjust? These questions anyone will ask. And they will be wholly relevant. There is too much killing going on, killing that is random and mindless, almost as if killing was an end in itself. The Americans are targeting the Taleban. And the Americans are in occupation of Afghanistan. If the Taleban retaliate against them, or make them their target, there is a grim military logic to this. In combat, and this on both sides is merciless combat, no quarter is given. But attacking the poor and innocent…this is perverted and unholy. You can exhaust all the adjectives in the dictionary and yet fall short of the outrage you wish to express. And, in our circumstances, targeting a Shia place of worship is especially unholy as it reveals the sectarian and denominational bias of those whom we call the Taleban.There is another dimension to this as well. The use of near-illiterate, brainwashed young men, in many cases teenagers, to carry out suicide missions is a form of perversion that leaves all others behind. Japanese pilots, many of them ace pilots, going on kamikaze missions, was one thing. Those were conscious, educated adults—maybe highly intelligent adults—who knew what they were doing. Viet Cong fighters hurling themselves against superior American forces, in missions that given the odds were almost akin to suicide attacks, or lightly-armed ‘mujahideen’ battling the Soviet army in Afghanistan, or Hezbollah fighters standing up to the might of the Israeli army: all these are examples of hard-to-deny valour.But the usual cannon fodder employed for suicide attacks in Pakistan is a different thing altogether. What we are witnessing is the exploitation and brainwashing of the under-privileged, in the name of religion; youths with half-formed or ill-formed minds sacrificed at the altar of a twisted interpretation of religion. Blowing oneself up is no easy undertaking. Merely to imagine the indoctrination which leads to the making of a suicide bomber sends a chill down one’s spine.But these are just words. And since when did words stop drone attacks or defeat insurgents like the Taleban? We fulminate against the Americans but are they impressed? There is no shortage of raw anger against the Taleban, especially in our English language press, but does that have any effect on such grim custodians of the faith as the Taleban’s Swat spokesman, Muslim Khan? Being in American custody in Guantanamo Bay or in Taleban custody in Swat or Waziristan…not much of a choice, is there?The Americans are trying to win Afghanistan on the cheap, heaping blame on Pakistan and expecting the Pakistan army to do that in FATA which they are reluctant to do themselves in Afghanistan. An insurgency like the Taleban’s can be broken only by sustained will and capacity. What the Americans are deploying is rhetoric and tough talk…and pressure on Pakistan to ‘do more’. Their rhetoric is also self-contradictory because when they talk of defeating Al Qaeda and the Taleban, in the same breath they talk of an ‘exit strategy’ — the very thing which scares the hell out of Pakistani generals who are reminded of America’s quick exit strategy from Afghanistan in 1989 after the Soviet army left, leaving Pakistan with all the unwashed dishes.There is very little new about the Obama strategy for Afghanistan. It is very much the old Bush policy dressed up in a fancy wardrobe. Much in the same manner that President Zardari’s alacrity in toeing the American line is little different from the diligence with which President Musharraf went along the same path. The more things change…the more they remind you of the human capacity for repetition.It’s not as if the Afghans have never been defeated or subjugated. This is a myth (a theme briefly explored in a recent New York Times write-up by one Karl Bergen). Afghanistan is one of the oldest crossroads of history, where foreign hosts have come and gone. Alexander passed through Afghanistan, as did Genghis Khan and Amir Taimur. Babar was from Central Asia but when expelled from there he turned south and captured Kabul, which remained part of the Mughal empire until its disintegration 200 years later.Maharaja Ranjit Singh defeated the Afghans and captured Peshawar which is how it came into British hands when Punjab was annexed to the British empire.. The Americans can turn Afghanistan around but only with the kind of commitment for which they have no stomach — and for which there will be less and less domestic support as time passes. This is Obama’s predicament. He is working against a deadline. From the American point of view things must improve in Afghanistan over the next two to three years if Afghanistan is not to become an election liability for the Democratic Party by the end of Obama’s first term.Osama bin Laden and Mullah Omar are up against no such constraint. Their timescale is biblical, their reward not a presidential term won but the fruits of paradise. The two paradigms are completely different.In both Afghanistan and Iraq the Americans thought they were going in for quick fixes. They became wars of attrition. From Iraq the Americans are getting out. But Afghanistan, already a quagmire, looks set to become a nightmare. And it’s Pakistan’s luck that being next to Afghanistan it is expected to work the miracle that America itself has not the will or ability to perform.Just as the Taleban brainwash their suicide bombers, indoctrinating them to carry out impossible missions, the Americans are engaged fulltime in brainwashing the Pakistani elite, military and civil, into believing that this is not America’s folly but Pakistan’s war — into the raging flames of which Pakistan must jump unthinkingly, regardless of the cost.Baitullah Mahsud, Maulana Fazlullah, the incomparable Muslim Khan and their ilk are our problems. No doubt about it.Their militancy and rabid fanaticism threaten Pakistan from within. But even if we disregard the fact that these genii are direct products of America’s misconceived adventure in Afghanistan, the realisation should sink in sooner rather than later that these 
elements will not be defeated by chocolate methods.Putin crushed the Chechens by being more brutal than the Chechens.The Indians used torture and rape and murder on a mass scale to crush the uprising in occupied Kashmir from 1989 onwards (they haven’t completely succeeded but there is no letup in their methods). The Sri Lankan army is on the verge of crushing the Tamil Tigers after a ruthless campaign of annihilation. The Algerian army crushed Algeria’s Islamist forces but at a price in terms of human suffering which we in Pakistan can’t even begin to imagine.In military terms Swat and Waziristan are not unconquerable but that will require brutality and ruthlessness on a scale for which the Pakistan army, given its antecedents, can never be ready. It is a sad fact that the brutal tactics which the army could employ in East Pakistan in 1971 are scarcely an option in Waziristan and Swat. To use them here would tear Pakistan apart and allow prophets of doom to delve deeper into the meaning of the word ‘Balkanization’.The next 2-3 years, as the US sinks deeper into the Afghan quagmire and as a result becomes more touchy and desperate, are going to be tough for Pakistan. The anger that the Americans will not be able to take out on Al Qaeda and the Taleban they will direct towards Pakistan — and our rulers, being weak at heart, will keep rolling out the red carpet for unwelcome envoys.During this time there will be more crazed young men carrying out more suicide missions for what in their minds doubtless will be the greater glory of Islam. And there will be more frightening videos out of Swat and we will have to put up with more lectures on Islamic jurisprudence from the likes of Muslim Khan. Can we weather the storms that lie ahead? For all its faults and shortcomings, the Pakistani nation has the grit and resilience to do so. But we could do with a better cast of pilots on deck, whose incompetence is scarcely less frightening than anything conjured up by the Taleban.

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It is going out of hand. God help India and Pakistan people

 

GW:My heart does go out for mainstream Pakistani, since I know on both sides (as a victim of suicide bomb or drone and missiles) they are getting killed. I wouldnt be surprise to know Baitullah Masud sitting in Islamabad and Osama sitting in EU or DC, as we all know all children of Zardari are either in Dubai or in England, and it will be same for Sharifs too unless they are MNA or MPA, where they have to be in Pakistan to collect their commission.Pakistan reached to the point where it may not be possible for Pakistani masses to trust either Zardaris and military or US, so only way out is to have a Kamal Atta Turk or Khomeni revolution, where you hang all politicians including their kids especially Bilawal and co who uses poor Pakistani money (earned through blood) on trips to Pakistan and DC (I am sure it may kill some innocent politicians but will not be more than innocent people and soldiers getting killed now a days), and start a new Pakistan free of any foreign influence rather policies based on main stream Pakistani interest.

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If Pakistan wants to save itself. This is the time, Pakistani sovereigntly is not under the greatest threat, with India being the least of its worries and the US and Taliban being the next worst.I would not put it past the U.S., that if they do not find a willing partner in Pakistan, the U.S., once finished in Iraq, will forcibly establish a base in Pakistan and will do its best to leverage Pakistan to divert all military resources to fight Talibanization. If the Pak army and ISI do not comply at this time, Barack Obama will have no choice but to listen to his advisors and the droves of lobbyists in Washington calling for Disintegration and nuclearization of Pakistan.If Pak. fails to give up its affair with the Taliban and its love of Jihadi Proxy Army Strategic assets as instruments of foreign policy, then the U.S. will elevate things to the U.N. security council for Balkanization of a part of Pakistan, so as to remove partial Pakistani sovereignty to allow a huge multinational force there.Make no mistake, Barack Obama is not some sort of drunk like George Bush, he appears like a cool, polished man, but he is a very methodical, cunning lawyer with very big teeth. He has already shown the ability to accomplish impossible things.As a good lawyer, he will methodically build the eventual case for denuclearization and disintegration of Pakistan and do it in such a way that he will be able to build a high level of consensus among the UN member nations to exert the force of the security council.The case will be built that all things have been tried to reform Pakistan, they did not reform and therefore Pakistan, a nuclear state, is now a danger to the World and therefore must be dealt with militarily and separated.

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Global watcherDont make a mockery of yourself here on this blog, what are you trying to establish? You must know that Pakistan is not a banana republic, while fully capable of thwarting any agression, Pakistan is capable not only to defend itself but deliver crushing blows to any attacking enemy. Keep up your childish rants, I will keep reminding you Pakistan is a muslim nation of 170 million people armed with deadly and lethal weapons of mass destruction and capable of unleashing catastrophic forces of destruction upon its enemies. Let the time come, lets see who attacks who and who sends who to hell.Long Live Pakistan!

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Global watcher:”If Pakistan wants to save itself. This is the time, Pakistani sovereigntly is not under the greatest threat, with India being the least of its worries and the US and Taliban being the next worst.”Whatever threats may be to Pakistan’s soverignity, every single one of them is being identified, addressed, course of actions formulated and are in the process of being eliminated. Pakistan is like a cornered tiger, we will make a resounding come back. We won our freedom in 1947, we defended it with our blood all along. We will lay down our lives for Pakistan, 170 million of us are a force. When united no one can dare challenge our soverignity. Pakistan is being taken easy until now, the game has just begun.

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Americans knew all along about ISI’s deep involvement in Jihadi activities. They knew everything about their clandestine nuclear program. They knew what Pakistan was doing in India. They knew everything. But they chose to ignore all that since it did not fit into their geo-political strategic plans.But things have changed. If Al Qaeda had not hit American and European targets, they would not have had to face their public for doing something to end terrorism. Bush had no plans to go after Al Qaeda or the Taliban. Even after ousting Taliban from Afghanistan, the US gave up its chase of Bin Laden and turned towards it plans in Iraq and elsewhere. When Pakistan restarted its activities in India, once again it did not go intensely to put an end to it. But now, Iraq is done. There is a new sharif in town. And he is a straight talker. Now the US is coming forward to admit the truth and is committed to clearing the ISI of its Jihadi elements, tied its economic aid package with conditions that will prevent Pakistan from engaging in insurgency in India and may even go further if resistance is observed.I am wondering why Obama suddenly brought the topic of removing nuclear weapons in the G20 summit. He must be having a starting point somewhere. To me it looks as though he is eyeing the nukes in Pakistan with its probability of falling into the wrong hands. It is interesting to see Balochistan beginning to boil. Though the ISI blames the RAW for all that is going on, ISI is more powerful in the region and it would certainly be able to curtail any RAW activities and do more.If Pakistanis do not cleanse and detox their system themselves, looks like the Americans will do it for them. I don’t think they will engage in dividing up the country. It does not offer anything productive for the Americans – instead of dealing with one country, they will have to deal with four. If Pakistan falls apart, it will happen from within – mostly as a civil war between military factions loyal to the Jihadi machinery and those who really want to get away from it all. It will turn ugly as every faction will try to wrest control of the nukes. This is where the US might act. India should simply leave everything to the US and Pakistanis and protect its borders. The Americans created this whole mess. Let them clean it up. We have nothing to gain from what is going on. We will be hit by the fall out. But we must minimize the damage and hold still somehow.

 

Umair,Your bold claims might hold India or other nearby countries at bay. But not the United States. I hope most Pakistanis do not share that attitude. Richard Armitage told Musharraf that if Pakistan did not switch sides, your country would be bombed back to stone age. This was in 2001. And Musharraf reversed the gear without any hesitation. Chest thumping works to assuage one’s own fears. That is all. Do not mess with the Americans. They can create problems and can also end them. You do not want their Tomahawk missiles pointed at your country. Your military will simply surrender to the Americans if an attack comes. I sincerely hope sense prevails. I understand your feelings. But do not get emotional. Practicality is very important for survival.

 

Mauryan wrote:” Chest thumping works to assuage one’s own fears. That is all. Do not mess with the Americans. They can create problems and can also end them. You do not want their Tomahawk missiles pointed at your country. Your military will simply surrender to the Americans if an attack comes. “We are messing with Americans since the 1950s, Pakistan knows America’s weakness and America knows Pakistan’s weakness. ISI was nothing before 1979, the legend of ISI was born after 1979, CIA and ISI are like mother to daughter. Diamond cuts diamond,what would send frightening chills down the spine of every American ? A hot head Pakistan Army Lt. General appointed to the post of Director General ISI. Thats the deal. America can turn its Tomahawk cruise missile against Pakistan, Pakistan will retaliate with BABUR CRUISE MISSILES. Pakistan Navy is equipped with C-802 anti- ship missile which will destroy any American war ship.www.armytimes.com/news/2008/09/Army _border_ops_092608w/ – 38k -Read the above article, Pakistan was attacked by US ground forces in Sept 2008. Pakistan Army was immediately ordered to open fire on US ground troops, and helicopters. Just google PAKISTAN ARMY OPEN FIRE ON US TROOPS:Pakistan troops ordered to open fire on US raiderswww.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/16  /pakistan-orders-troops-to_n_126733.htm l – 164k -Pakistan shut down NATO supplies after the Sept 2008 attack in Waziristan(Angoor Adda) by US special forces, Than google PAKISTAN ARMY OPENS FIRE ON NATO HELICOPTERSPakistan warns US troops after exchange of fire | The Jakarta Postwww.thejakartapost.com/news/2008/09/ 26/pakistan-warns-us-troops-after-exchan ge-fire.html -Pakistani forces fired warning flares at NATO choppers: Zardariwww.thaindian.com/newsportal/unca tegorized/pakistani-forces-fired-warning -flares-at-nato-choppers-zardari_1001000 88.html – 49k -NATO Helicopters, Pakistan Troops Exchange Fire at Afghan Borderwww.voanews.com/english/2008-09-25 -voa15.cfm – 37k -Pakistani and American Troops Exchange Fire – NYTimes.comwww.nytimes.com/2008/09/26/wo rld/asia/26military.html -Americans are fully aware of Pakistan’s fighting capability, whatever Richard Armitage told Musharraf told Musharraf is history. Lets see if Richard Holbrooke is able to state the same to Ashfaq Kayani after Pakistan Army and US Army already fought against each other on Afghan border.

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Umair writes: “America can turn its Tomahawk cruise missile against Pakistan, Pakistan will retaliate with BABUR CRUISE MISSILES”Ok. It is going to happen, if your generals share your attitude. Bin Laden got foolish and haughty and whacked on a honeycomb. Now he is shifting from cave to cave at nights in order to survive. Taliban is hiding in the rough hills of NWFP and FATA. Are they ruling Afghanistan? No. Now you are getting foolish and so will your generals. Your Babur cruise missiles will have nowhere to fly as the US can launch its offensive from afar. And they have satellites that can monitor your moves. Their B52s are beyond reach of your anti aircraft missiles. Their stealth fighters can fly non stop from Arizona and precisely knock out key defense installations inside your country. They have details of everything inside your country. Let us hope this does not happen. But your military could not even handle a rag tag bunch of militants in Swat.Do not assume that your jihadists and militry (they both seem to appear as one from outside) can take on a super power. The Soviets got defeated, not because of your military, but because of the US working through you. This time pray that China steps in to help against the US. Otherwise, in a matter of one week, your military, ISI everything will be cleaned out. And the marines would have taken out all your nukes and missiles.

 

MauryanAmerica has 52000 troops in Afghanistan across the Pakistan border, 17000 more coming. 38 NATO countries have their soldiers in Afghanistan, these forces are in the range of Pakistan’s conventional and nuclear missiles. Untill and unless the last single soldier withdraws, all these western nations will never compromise their safety by provoking an attack on Pakistan.Once these forces withdraw, US has a strategic partner east of Pakistan: India. India is a big market, with emerging middle class, US is dreaming to sell you weapons, do trade with you, prop India against China. Will the US ever attack Pakistan, knowing Pakistan in return could carry out nuclear strike on India?hmmm.. let me think! probably you call this NUCLEAR BLACKMAIL. no. no. no. not good. Good countries dont do this, Pakistan is good country and will never do this. But than US will have to make sure no B-52s flying out of Arizona enter Pakistan airspace and if they do, than…….Pakistan cannot be held responsible for anything after the B-52s enter Pakistan airspace, what will follow next will be worst than Chernobyl and Hiroshima.

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MauryanUmair is right when he says – “America is in deep recession, they are knee deep in quagmires in Afghanistan and Iraq.” – & will surely use Pakistan as the ‘dumping’ ground for it’s weapons as Sr. Bush had done with Iraq during the Kuwait invasion.

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Now, the UK has uncovered a potential terrorist strike that was directly linked to Pakistan. They’ve arrested 11 suspects from Pakistan who were on student visas. It’s all over the British news today. The people in the UK are furious, and demanding 1) Pakistan to act against the Taliban, 2) No more empty promises but action 3) Revisit the student visa regulationsIn response, the Pakistani ambassador in the UK shamelessly blamed the failure of British intelligence system for allowing in the suspected terrorists on student visas.Outrageous!

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US is not going to fight the war with blogger strategy. US vs Pak—I am laughing and the americans are pissed off at the comparison. That they are afraid to fight, I agree with that part. But they have found this successful bro vs bro strategy.US is in recession but still gives aids $$$$ to Pakistan and fighting wars—-money is not going to be a limiting factor for them–they won’t have to cut down on the steaks to fight the war (forget about starting to eat the grass to save $$$ for fighting).Pakistan Navy honestly is not up to the task with Indian Navy. Check the hard facts the #s of arsenal, and the quality of the arsenal, location the coastline blah….speaks for itself.The fact is US will not fight with Pak and Indian will not fight with Pak the way some bloggers think–for better alternatives.Pakistanis: the enemy is within. There is no other way except to take the bull by the horns. For your next generations.

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Umair writes: “Good countries dont do this, Pakistan is good country and will never do this. But than US will have to make sure no B-52s flying out of Arizona enter Pakistan airspace and if they do, than……”This is the very reason why your nukes will be taken out by the Marines soon. Black mail is done by criminals. Are you indicating that your country is made of criminals in charge? I know good countries don’t attack another nation in order to save themselves from a big bully. Your statement says that yours is not a good nation. I guess most Pakistanis have been blinded like you have been. You will only shoot randomly all around since you cannot see anymore.Good luck Umair. Just pray every day that Uncle Sam does not turn against your country. Your nukes are not under the control of your military or the ISI. So no nukes will explode. Don’t worry. Laugh as much as you can. Hopefully this will not be the last time.

 

Suleman Maniya,Goteborg,Sweden—This may be of some interest to you…http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/20 08/08/30/guest-contribution-pakistani-an d-proud/can check in the archives for the month of August ’08 – Guest contribution: Pakistani and Proud? – By Amil Khan

Posted by anup | Report as abusive
 

@Bulletfish,Unless there is a common hatred of India to fuel Pakistani unity, frozen in fear and not knowing what to do, the citizens of Pakistan have no bxlls, guts, heart or strength to fight for their country. Rest in pieces.This is a threat to Pakistan, that the founding forefathers of Pakistan never contemplated. Unless Pakistan seeks to redefine who they are in the context of the modern world, namely a very prosperous India and a Talibanized Pakistan, they will be swallowed up by the Taliban cancer tearing through as we speak.You reap what you sow. Extremism has come back haunt those who fueled it.

Posted by Global Watcher | Report as abusive
 

The root cause of today’s situation is Jinnah and his selfish power mongers who did not care about the consequences of their greed for power. Jinnah just wanted to carve out a nation for himself and the British gave him what he wanted to make a long lasting drag on India. They hated leaving India and did not like being forced out when things were falling apart for them. So they created Pakistan. They had no agenda after getting what they wanted. A united India has managed to deflect off similar issues. Over 60 years people have begun to realize the importance of being in one union. There sure are many Jinnahs inside India. But they will never make a global impact on the whole nation. India’s massive diversity acts as a barrier. Somewhere I read that linguistic division has actually helped the unity stay alive. People got at least something to relate to and stay within that. Coalition governments will make sure that no single party can hold sway over the whole nation and one family does not get to decide the nation’s fate.Pakistan spent 35 of its 62 year life under military rule. They had a huge opportunity to become a very modern state in all aspects. Karachi could have rivaled Dubai. But their leaders spent all their time on hatred of India and the end result is that hatred has come back to haunt them. It is a sad story of a nation that should not have been. Religion is for personal spiritual progress. It should never get into running governments. The end result is states like Pakistan, Afghanistan etc. It is really sad.

 

A country built on religious hatred cannot survive. What will it do when hate is not enough?

Posted by Global Watcher | Report as abusive
 

@Mauryan”The root cause of today’s situation is Jinnah and his selfish power mongers …”I will respectfully disagree with you, rather will correct you that the root cause of today’s situation is:BRITISH & NEHRUFirst, if British were following the set principles and doing justice in division of assets and land, there may not have been so much blood shed at the time of partition.Second, if Nehru was following up to his promised made in 1948 to the UN, Pakistan and India could have saved a lot of money from wasting on Military and could have used it for the betterment of people. And am sure both countries could have raised in much more harmony, peace and love.

Posted by Abid | Report as abusive
 

Mr Holbrooke got off on the wrong foot, by ignoring Kashmir as well as Pakistani interests in Afghanistan and simply demanding that Pakistan do whatever the US wants. Now he is encountering resistance from govt/army and ISI.Holbrooke keeps this up and will end up after 4 years in the same situation as Bush was after 8 years, where Pakistan takes their money and does nothing.

 

Ali”Holbrooke keeps this up and will end up after 4 years in the same situation as Bush was after 8 years, where Pakistan takes their money and does nothing.”That is why my dear US is putting conditions to her aid.

Posted by chirkut | Report as abusive
 

@ChirkutDear if US stops aid it loses all leverage in Pakistan, so they can put as many conditions as they wish. No aid and a hostile US govt will not help them achieve their objectives.US can’t bomb its way to victory.

 

Ali,If US stops its aid Pakistan will become history.Don’t bite the hand that feeds you.

Posted by chirkut | Report as abusive
 

@ChirkutThere was no aid as well as heavy US sanctions in the 1990′s , and Pakistan is still here. If US cuts off aid, it will mean no F-16′s for Pakistan, and no leverage for USA.

 

@There was no aid as well as heavy US sanctions in the 1990’s , and Pakistan is still here. If US cuts off aid, it will mean no F-16’s for Pakistan, and no leverage for USA.- Posted by Aamir Ali–And you see the shape Pakistan is in. Recent IMF help was the key to your survival. US, IMF, FOP, China so many are helping Pakistan Zardari post-FOP meeting says FOP meeting was success (bec he got billions of $$$$). Rather than putting his head down in shame, he labels this as success. He need to start hiding the grin, be sober and say thank you on such accassions. And you Aamir, looking for leverage, see the list of helpers and China starting to shoo you away. Think on behalf of Pak and ask yourself “we are asking for help for running the country and proudly talk about the leverge, what sort of country are we?”.

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive
 

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