Comments on: Is caste behind the killing in Vienna and riots in Punjab? http://blogs.reuters.com/india/2009/05/26/is-caste-behind-the-killing-in-vienna-and-riots-in-punjab/ Perspectives on South Asian politics Thu, 02 Jun 2016 08:03:22 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=4.2.5 By: Satnam http://blogs.reuters.com/india/2009/05/26/is-caste-behind-the-killing-in-vienna-and-riots-in-punjab/comment-page-1/#comment-8690 Fri, 31 Jul 2009 07:25:02 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/india/?p=1212#comment-8690 No it is not caste but it is organised terror . Certain individuals do not want peace to prevail . A handful of them are taking law into their hands and trying to blemish Sikhism , the mots tolerant of Religions .Online Books On Sikh History

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By: Jag http://blogs.reuters.com/india/2009/05/26/is-caste-behind-the-killing-in-vienna-and-riots-in-punjab/comment-page-1/#comment-7974 Thu, 02 Jul 2009 22:10:29 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/india/?p=1212#comment-7974 In my opinion hail to those brave lions that took care of these fake saints in Austria. Who are there to have people bow down to them in the presence of the holy Guru Granth Sahib Ji. Haven’t’ the people of India learnt that Sikhs don’t fear anyone including the army of the state that was taught such a punishing lesson in June 1984.

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By: rajeev http://blogs.reuters.com/india/2009/05/26/is-caste-behind-the-killing-in-vienna-and-riots-in-punjab/comment-page-1/#comment-7348 Thu, 04 Jun 2009 20:18:55 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/india/?p=1212#comment-7348 @i a person who apparantly is of a lower caste have always been discriminated against by “sikhs”- Posted by navieNavie: You did not make it clear if you are a Sikh or not. Not calling yourself a Sikh and then blaming on the “Sikhs” that they are discriminating against you is not consistent. I do not want to hurt you or defend Sikhs, but you are not clear about your identity.I see this way:1. You belong to a “lower caste” (hardly matter which one but helps the discussion if we are at it)2. if you are not a Sikh (but just follow Guru Granth Sahib) then why you feel discriminated (by Sikhs) against (and over what?)? What you call discrimination here is probably your and a Sikh’s interpretation of Granth Sahib. If you feel this discrimination, so you are best judge and it is fair that I agree with you.3. if you are a Sikh, then why are you asking for a human Guru. Tenth Guru Gobind Singh ji clearly stopped this practice of a human Guru and called Granth Sahib the “Guru”If you look at the history of Sikhism, there is a slow (so painful) conversion of the “willing” to Sikhism and this evolution is going on. Understanding the original idea of Sikhism is important if you want to be clear where you stand–forget about Akal Takhat or Dera Sachkhand Balan, but look at the idea of 1-10 Gurus. In next 100-200yrs, your future generations will become either a “typical” Sikh as mostly recognize them, or you will fall out of this line and be a Hindu (or …) than having this confusion, or something totally new will emerge. But not having a clear understanding of the Sikhism will hurt everyone around you. You will be lying if you say Sikhism (in principal) allows inequality and discrimination.@sant Ramanand ji was a guru and a true man who preached humanity and peace to all communitys .i think some people tend to forget what a guru actually means and that is a holy teacher so whats the problem if hes leading people into the right path–I have not met him (although I stay around that area). I am sure he was a great Guru if you feel so. problem is calling Granth Sahib as “Guru” and “sant Ramanand ji” as Guru –this hurts other Sikhs feeling.History shows that Hindus from the “Lower Castes” who converted to Sikhs attained higher level versus their original place.Well in the end, everyone from any religion in India is influenced by the casteism.

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By: navie http://blogs.reuters.com/india/2009/05/26/is-caste-behind-the-killing-in-vienna-and-riots-in-punjab/comment-page-1/#comment-7340 Wed, 03 Jun 2009 10:25:37 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/india/?p=1212#comment-7340 im sorry to say to all you true sikhs that no matter what day an age we will always have the cast system no matter what and i a person who apparantly is of a lower caste have always been discriminated against by “sikhs” and sant Ramanand ji was a guru and a true man who preached humanity and peace to all communitys .i think some people tend to forget what a guru actually means and that is a holy teacher so whats the problem if hes leading people into the right path

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By: rajeev http://blogs.reuters.com/india/2009/05/26/is-caste-behind-the-killing-in-vienna-and-riots-in-punjab/comment-page-1/#comment-7337 Wed, 03 Jun 2009 07:01:05 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/india/?p=1212#comment-7337 Azad:@I see the young rioting men clean shaven, is nt it somewhat unusual? My understanding is that, barring a few, nearly all sikh men wear a turban.-Yes, actually they are mostly SCs following Guru Granth Sahib. Many who converted to Sikhism changed names to Singhs and Kaurs suffixes–shedding their original identity–and Sikh men wera turbans and grow beard. But this “name” and appearance change happened starting with the time of last Guru Gobind Singh. All nine Gurus had Hindu names, if you think about it. Sikhism was more of an idea/spiritual level-at that time. Last Guru gave physical identity arising out of the military need of the time (against Aurangzeb) to distinguish warrior versus non-warriors etc. It is interesting that British helped a lot in promoting and establishing the physical identity of Sikhs by letting them grow beard and wear turban and that became a practice, removing any fears that Sikhism would dissolve into Hinduism.That said, the followers of Ravidas of today follow Sikh holy book, have Hindu names, are mostly (not all) clean shaven. It is like following some but not all features of Sikhism. In Doaba region (between rivers Beas and Sutlej), there is a huge # of Ravidas followers and are called Ravidasias or similar terminology. On a separate note, I have few non-Dalit Hindu friends who also follow Sikh holy book but do not wear turbans. So evolution to typical Sikhism did not fully take place, retaining older features (dalits). If 9 Gurus had Hindu names,Ravidas followers can also be Sikhs in that sense. Ravidas temples have Guru Granth Sahib.It usually has not been a problem. All the name and appearnce could be tolerable but nothing supercedes GGS, that is considered the last Guru. But since ravidas followers follow GGS due to Ravidas teachings in it (perhaps), some of them might be taking the liberty of promoting the idea of giving the status of sant or Guru, despite following the GGS. This is the problem.Then there there are Christian Dalits too!This is a good article on Ravidas followers and Sikhs:http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com  /India/Most-members-of-Dalit-sect-dont- follow-Sikh-tenets/articleshow/4581887.c ms

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By: Harry http://blogs.reuters.com/india/2009/05/26/is-caste-behind-the-killing-in-vienna-and-riots-in-punjab/comment-page-1/#comment-7319 Tue, 02 Jun 2009 01:53:55 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/india/?p=1212#comment-7319 The so called sikhs do not know the greatness of Guru Granth Sahib Ji. Only those few who day and night stay absorbed and follow one hundred percent teachings of Guru Granth Sahib Ji and when they achieve that highest level of spiritualism which is called in Gurmat Sahej Awastha, then they say Wah Guru (Guru you are wonderful). Those few really know how sacred and great is Guru Granth Sahib. That is why I say there is nothing in this universe that can disrespect Guru Granth SahibJi unless they consider it just an object. To live a life according to the teachings of Guru Granth Sahib Ji is not an easy task. The so called heads of followers of Guru Granth Sahib Ji are not even one hundredth of a per cent close to following. They have made it very easy that just keep reading or pay the people to read for you. Can a follower say if any of the Kam, Krodh, Lobh, Moh and Hankar have been conquered? If none do not call yourself follower of Guru Granth Sahib Ji. I do not want to go more in detail just want to mention one more teaching of Guru Granth Sahib Ji and that is Hukam – whatever is happening is the Hukam of Wahegur or His Rajha and we should live happy in His Rajha.

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By: rammen http://blogs.reuters.com/india/2009/05/26/is-caste-behind-the-killing-in-vienna-and-riots-in-punjab/comment-page-1/#comment-7191 Fri, 29 May 2009 20:14:31 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/india/?p=1212#comment-7191 Sikhism-born out of hinduism-culturally,politically,phsycolo gically is the same religion.Religious misinterpretations have always played a big part in causing conflicts at gloable,national,regional and street level.ONE HAS TO RESPECT THE OTHER IN IT’S OWN ENTITY,TO BE ABE TO EXIST TOGATHER IN THE SAME ENVIROMENT.VERDICT—WILL NEVER BE POSSIBLE IN INDIA.

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By: Manpreet kaur http://blogs.reuters.com/india/2009/05/26/is-caste-behind-the-killing-in-vienna-and-riots-in-punjab/comment-page-1/#comment-7188 Fri, 29 May 2009 18:09:32 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/india/?p=1212#comment-7188 Being a sikh i would like to add something because i have close understanding of this matter.Vienna-Punjab conflict is not a result of race discrimination but it is a matter of disrespecting Sikh Holy Book- Guru Granth Sahib.For sikh Guru Granth Sahib is not only a holy book but it is living guru himself. In other words it is everything for a true sikh and thier is a code of conduct to deal with it. Disrespecting Guru Granth Sahib means hurting sikh feelings and thier belief. Rama nand and his follower did not stop those objectionable act despite many reqests.I don’t support attacking or killing someone but these people like Rama Nand should not offend other peoples belief as well. For instance, Many sikh people in punjab may have converted to christianity but no sikh interfere with somebodies personal belief. So Sikhism does not stop anybody following any guru or sant but nobody can claim being a sikh guru. Although a person can start his own philosophy/sect/religion but niether can make any change within the Guru Granth Sahib nor can claim as a sikh guru because sikhism has already paid a big price to restore the honour.For reader view I would like to clear that most of the DERA GURU CLAIM THEMSELVE GUR AND THEY OFFEND SIKH FEELING BY SAYING THAT THIS HOLY BOOK CANOT BE GURU. Now people can decide wheter it is wrong or not. Imagine if somebody using Gita and tellingHindus that Krishna is not great , somebody using bible but claiming jesus cannot do anything and follow me , somebody using Quaran to get fame but telling muslim that they should not follow quran . In the same way if if somebody having a book in his hand and telling books auther that i wrote it. this is called piracy man.Mnapreet

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By: Manjeet http://blogs.reuters.com/india/2009/05/26/is-caste-behind-the-killing-in-vienna-and-riots-in-punjab/comment-page-1/#comment-7180 Fri, 29 May 2009 10:32:09 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/india/?p=1212#comment-7180 Sat shri akal to all, I am a true sikh… and I trust in Shri guru Granth Sahibji, before making any comments on caste system or whatever heppened there we must keep in mind what our Guru told us ,Live together with harmony,without being superstitious, the Guru’s never had any discrimination with any race, caste or religion, that is why Sheikh Farid,Kabir, Namdev, Ravidas, Surdas and others are having their Bani in Guru Granth Sahibji, regardless of their colour, race or origin. They devote their life to teach us that how to live,they teach us at that time. and now if you declare Guru to yourself forgetting what Ravidasji said, then it certainly means you are not following the religion, or Ravidas ji, if you are a sikh and follow Guru Granth Sahib ji, then you must not forget that neither Ravidasji nor Guru Granth sahib ji told you to be racist or harming other’s property,So as per me I think whatever happened was wrong because if anyone wants to do such things they must choose other place not in presence of Guru Granth Sahibji, as Guru never teach us that way, the role of all the saint should be as a connector who teach us the lesson of the God, of Guru Granth Sahibji, and others should remember Guru Granth Sahib ji is for everyone on thins planet, stop going to vote collector, or those who are sitting as your Father, and remember God. He is in everyone, so Love to all, hate none.any comments most welcome.

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By: vijay http://blogs.reuters.com/india/2009/05/26/is-caste-behind-the-killing-in-vienna-and-riots-in-punjab/comment-page-1/#comment-7179 Fri, 29 May 2009 09:34:35 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/india/?p=1212#comment-7179 The caste system was for the ancient indians, y are we still using the name of caste to make frnds, etc.Segregation in the name of race is not humanitarian.Until we accept this truth and forgo our caste barriers, we cannot move ahead, — just look some random election .. even for cricket clubs. caste name, reservations are bad as we go ahead.

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