Facing up to “the war in Pakistan”

September 14, 2008

Masked pro-Taliban Pakistani militantsThere has been much hesitation in the world’s media about how to label U.S. military action inside Pakistan’s borders, including a reported ground raid and a series of missile strikes. Do you call it an “invasion”? Or use the more innocuous-sounding “intervention”? In an editorial, the Washington Post gives it a name which is rather striking in its directness. It calls it quite simply, The War in Pakistan.

President George W. Bush’s reported decision in July to step up attacks by U.S. forces in Pakistan’s tribal areas, the newspaper says, was both necessary and long overdue. It acknowledges there is a risk the strikes might prompt a breach between the U.S. and Pakistani armies, or destabilize the new civilian government in Pakistan. But, it says, ”no risk to Pakistan’s political system or its U.S. relations is greater than that of a second 9/11 staged from the tribal territories. U.S. missile and commando attacks must be backed by the best intelligence and must minimize civilian casualties. But they must continue.”

Others are lining up to condemn the new U.S. strategy in Pakistan.

Protesting against U.S. strikes“The Americans are probably right in claiming that Al-Qaeda and the Taleban have regrouped and using bases in Pakistan to launch cross-border raids into Afghanistan,” says Saudi-based Arab News. “They are certainly right in thinking that there will be no peace in Afghanistan while that remains the case. But they have to let the Pakistanis deal with this. If they continue the raids, they risk not merely losing what dwindling support they have in Pakistan but, far worse, alienating the country so thoroughly than no government even vaguely sympathetic to the US and the West can survive there.”

Pakistan’s Daily Times takes this argument further by suggesting that if public opinion turns even more against the United States, “the country will become more vulnerable to Al Qaeda and we will face unpredictable odds. According to nuclear theory, Pakistan is a nuclear power and cannot be attacked. If the US attacks Pakistani territory, battles with the Pakistan army, stops military assistance to Pakistan, and thus ends up making Al Qaeda supreme in Pakistan, the nuclear theory might then apply to Al Qaeda.”

In the Huffington Post, Shuja Nawaz writes that “the next time the US physically invades Pakistani territory to take out suspected militants, it may meet the Pakistan army head on. Or it may face a complete cut-off of war supplies and fuel in Afghanistan via Pakistan. With only two weeks supply of fuel available to its forces inside Afghanistan and no alternative route currently available, the war in Afghanistan may come to a screeching halt.”

Nawaz adds that both Pakistan and the United States need to rethink their actions. ”Otherwise, the US will not only lose an ally in Pakistan but ignite a conflagration inside that huge and nuclear-armed country that will make the war in Afghanistan seem like a Sunday hike in the Hindu Kush.”

Scary stuff then, with lots of massive risks being talked about on both sides of the argument, from another 9/11 to al Qaeda taking charge of Pakistan.

So here is a completely different view from Juan Cole in Informed Comment. “The original al Qaeda is defeated,” he says.  Do read his post before leaping to judgment on this assertion, as he makes some interesting points, including arguing that the Taliban are driven more by Pashtun nationalism than by a desire to spread terrorism around the world.

“Although the US is worried about the Arab volunteers who take refuge among the resurgent Taliban, they are a tiny element and cannot easily launch international terrorist operations from FATA (Pakistan’s Federally Administered Tribal Areas),” he writes. Based on an analysis of al Qaeda’s capabilities around the world, including in Iraq, he concludes; “For now, our war is over. Time to come home, and train and fund locals to do the clean-up work.”

Just suppose for a minute that his argument were to turn out to be correct. Then is the United States opening up a third front after Iraq and Afghanistan, but this time on the territory of a nuclear-armed country, for the wrong reasons?

102 comments

We welcome comments that advance the story through relevant opinion, anecdotes, links and data. If you see a comment that you believe is irrelevant or inappropriate, you can flag it to our editors by using the report abuse links. Views expressed in the comments do not represent those of Reuters. For more information on our comment policy, see http://blogs.reuters.com/fulldisclosure/2010/09/27/toward-a-more-thoughtful-conversation-on-stories/

I am tired of being forced as an American to let others wag their fingers at my nation and call me a “terrorist for oil”. I am tired of the world trying to judge the USA while the Muslims in many parts of the world were filmed dancing in the streets when Sept 11 2001 occurred in the USA and tall buildings with innocent people in them were destroyed…We in the USA and Europe are tired of the hypocrisy in the world of hating the USA and some nations of the world supporting Liars, Murderers and Thieves who attack Americans and Europeans. Let the wars begin. Let us get it over with. – - Cynara

Posted by Cynara Derr | Report as abusive

The problem with Pakistan is , not only is it a nuclear-armed country, it is also a terrorist – armed country… terrorism is outlawed…terrorists do not wear uniforms in wartime, terrorists use human shields and have their support camp bases near or in villages of innocent people or their own families and/or supporters…terrorists make themselves responsible for innocent civilians hurt or killed when the USA attacks their camps… it will do no good to judge America as attacking civilians while the same critics of America ignore the crimes and violations of conduct in war, a method of conduct that reveals how the terrorists conduct themselves, abuse civilians and violate International Law.

Posted by Cynara Derr | Report as abusive

well if u are tired u shud sleep instead of targetting innocents for the crimes they never commited. try understanding the dynamics of the world before 9/11 what america was doing in the muslim states that triggered 9/11 although i am quite sure that it was all planned just to use the reason to bomb the world , well the ‘islamic world’ for the oil .. what other good reason. hatred for america didnt start after 9/11 it was there long before that if you are not willing to accept that and continue to kill then go for it, wars fought in a state of rampage are never won… america is the biggest terrorist country in the world right now.

Posted by saher | Report as abusive

My dear Cynara,
i will advice you to read some non-western news papers….to get a better picture of the outside world. and what they think about america.

Posted by a non-muslim indian | Report as abusive

It is simply U.S strategy to get hold the possession of Baluchistan & Pakhtoon area in order to isolate China from hot waters.

Posted by shahamat | Report as abusive

In addition to above, U.S expansion strategy for possession of natural resources of Baluchistan.

Posted by shahamat | Report as abusive

Interesting coments…but we must realise that as long as the type of indian mentality u see in above commenst remain…we will unfortunately see pak military and secret services trying to counter indian moves to gain influence in afghanistan and later use it against pakistan to bully her…..Its not jsut what Pakistan needs to do more..its also others…and trust me noone wants to see another iraq…thousands of american soldiers….and hundreds of thousands or maybe more, iraqi muslims have died….for what??? for nothing but to seve few hawkish minds around the world…by iraq war, the only thing that comes to mind is losing o saddam and his birgade, death of zarqawi….and whatelse it has changed….nothing….saddam etc could ve been mudered by target killings…why wage a war and kill so many….iraq a worst than it was before…before only few tousands suffered at the hands of saddam….now millions suffer and will suffer for decades….sad…its alll sad..

Posted by kar pov | Report as abusive

Pakistan seems to be faced with ‘to be or not to be’ like dilemma. There is no doubt whatsoever that as far as the people are concerned they feel Pakistan has gone out of its way to side with America in this war on terror. If America is still not satisfied with Pakistan’s performance in this regard and would like to confront Pakistan then so be it. Pakistan should not take any more crap from America. Pakistan Army, after having done so much, also seems to be of same view. Pakistan government, however , seems to be double minded on this issue. It feels diplomacy may still be an option.
Considering the Pakistan government is still a weak government and Pakistan Army and public sentiments quite strong a compromise course of action will have to be adopted. The obvious compromise course of action is that Pakistan government must continue with its diplomatic effort to resolve this issue with America while in the mean time Pakistan Army must resist America’s incursions in Pakistan territory, with full force, to the best of its ability and capability.

Posted by Kabir Das | Report as abusive

Foreign troops on homeland soil using civilians for target practise is WRONG, period.

It doesn’t matter which banners/slogans (‘the war on terror’ ‘jihad’) are being exploited to justify such actions,it’s WRONG TO MURDER INNOCENT PEOPLE.

And it’s downright STUPID, UNGRATEFUL and ARROGANT to do both of the above to a country that is an ALLY and has lost more soldiers’ lives than any of the other players in the ‘war on terror.’

The Pakistan Army has been embroiled in intense and bitter fighting with militants under daunting conditions for the past several years without any of the hoohah and fanfare that has accompanied the US or UK’s armies’ deployments – or their losses.

What is required: more real support and cooperation from Pakistan’s so-called allies, and no more clumsy cowboy moves that will only make the Pakistan Army’s job harder and fan anti-American sentiment as well.

After all, when the actions of terrorists and the self-proclaimed leaders of the free world become indistinguishable from each other, there will be no reason to side with the Americans.

Posted by A R Nizami | Report as abusive

Terrorism will not come to an end by selectively attacking terrorist pockets. Public opinion has a great deal to do with terrorism, because just like the supply lines of an army or just like the Robin Hood model, terrorism is supported mainly by the people of the land. In this, manouvering public opinion becomes key and that is where America is making the mistake. At the same time, cleaning up isolated pockets will not help. It is like partially treating a cancer. It will grow again unless the whole place is cleaned up of terrorism. So, America is not only directing public opinion against itself in Pakistan, but also leaving behind the cancer by operating only on the Western Front of Pakistan and ignoring the northern and eastern areas.

Posted by Conscience | Report as abusive

America has shown its folly once more, just as it did when it attacked Iraq. Pakistan has been a tremendous ally, especially in the era of Musharraf — perhaps no other country would be convexed to USA’s wishes as much as he did.

Yet attacking Pakistan thus will only fuel the fire of terrorism, engender further the stern hatred in the hearts of Pakistanis and muslims.

Dont forget, Pakistan has a very strong military, including nukes, in addition to having loyal allies such as China and some arabian countries.

Attack Pakistan officially and the World War 3 will for sure commence!

Posted by Anom | Report as abusive

As a proud American citizen the earlier posts infuriate me. 9-11 didn’t come out of the blue, our country has consistently ignored middle eastern grievances, blindly supported Israel (and facilitated the ghettoization of the Palestinians), propped up dictators, and called any attempt to challenge out hegemony over the region terrorism. Our current administration (and both campaigns preying for the job next year) don’t seem to understand that America cannot afford to police the world, and we are better off working with people, not invading them. Pakistan has been a vital ally in our war in Afghanistan, but running operations and killing civilians in a nuclear country, where we aren’t seen very favorably only serves to jeopardize that alliance. The Terrorists don’t follow the rules of war, and this should give us Carte Blanche to kill civilians and invade innocent countries? I would remind Cynara Derr that the American revolutionaries were considered terrorists, that they disregarded European rules of war, but were seen by many Americans as being completely justified. Wouldn’t a better solution to civilian deaths be to stop bombing people, and address the ISSUES that cause terrorism. I would also remind Cynara that Iran (the neo-cons new favorite target) was openly mourning with us on Sept. 11, as were many other middle eastern peoples; terrorism isn’t mainstream for most middle easterners until a foreigner invades their country.

What would hicks in Alabama do if Mexico invaded, probably the same thing we saw in Iraq right, and the same thing we will expect in Pakistan? does our moral crusade against “terra” excuse unilateral actions that can only piss off one of our only democratic allies in a strategic region? If our war on Terror is right an moral, why aren’t other countries helping us in a meaningful way? why do liberals and conservatives in this country agree on an expansionist, militaristic foreign policy, while most Americans just want the perpetual wars to end?

Posted by Drew Lisciandrello | Report as abusive

Pakistan army pledges to ‘protect territorial integrity’ from U.S. incursions”–somehow, though, their committment to protect Pakistan’s ‘territorial integrity’ from incursions by the Taliban seem rather less committed.

Posted by Thinker | Report as abusive

you nizami expect the Americans to sit back and do nothing while bandits and terrorist roam across Pakistan into Afghanistan ? The attempts by some Pakistanis to show a willingness to attack the USA/NATO soldiers who attack terrorists makes the situation very clear…if any one shoots at USA/NATO soldiers attacking known terrorist camps they will be killed. Any one attacking USA/NATO soldiers, who are removing terrorists from the uncontrolled national borders of both Afghanistan and Pakistan, will be killed…Any one attacking and shooting at USA/NATO soldiers will be killed…you have a clear picture now ?
– - Cynara

Posted by Cynara Derr | Report as abusive

you will notice I never insult Pakistan or Pakistanis in my messages…the situation can be made orderly if Reason prevails and the Pakistanis see the USA / NATO as aiding the Pakistan to end the banditry lawlessness in your frontier areas near Afghanistan.

Posted by Cynara Derr | Report as abusive

Pakistan is a country that has always been living on aid money provided by various governments to take care of the stretegic calculations. This country has no means to stand up on its own and survive. If US stops giving any aid then within a couple of years Pakistan will be in total peril and disintegrate into several small countries. The possibilities for this to happen is very high. If Pakistan wants to live and improve their standing in the world then they should leave the low-life activities like using terrorism to gain strategic depth on neibouring countries like India and Afganistan. The low-life politicians, ISI and military should be put into correctional course then there is a chance for this country to survive. The only way to achieve is to deprive Pakistan from any and all aid money then they will start thinking about the seriousness on weeding out terrorism. It is totally lauaghable to see the Pakistan economy is aid based. If no western aid then no economy…

Posted by Pankaj | Report as abusive

America is the biggest terrorist in the world.
To the Americans ehere harking on about 9-11. Please shut up already. The good guys have killed over 1.5 million past 8 odd years the “terrorist” have killed 8000 odd.
USA is the bad guy here, Pakistan is a fool and should stop all co-operation.
Better to be poor and have your pride than to be having what we have today.
US would dare not confront pakistan if Pakistan said “bring it on” enough is enough , shove your money were the sun never shines

Posted by Rabbani | Report as abusive

The pakistanis created the taliban. They watched taliban massacre thousand of rivals in afghanistan.Allowed madrasas to feed and teach thier horrible ideology.For what has happend in afghanistan since the creation of taliban, I can say let the pakistanis enjoy the spread of what they created in thier own country and deal with it. It is justified to kill terrorists any where in the world….

Posted by aryan | Report as abusive

Cynara!!!!
When any outsider attacks this sacred country of ours, we fight and defend it with our toil, sweat and blood.we do it everytime, we did it before, we are doing it now, we will do it always. LONG LIVE PAKISTAN!!!

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive

Cant blame american soldiers for attacking on pakistani soil, i believe that was neecessary to show pakistani govt that US do not believe in pakistans double game..Cant you people think a simple thing ?? How can US intelligence spot a terrorist camp to the accuracy of building they live in pakistan,with out haviing walked a single step in to pakistan ?? what are pakistan security forces and army doing ? cant they track the movement of such large terrorist group practicing shooting in their country ??.
For god sake pakistani govt and army very well know where the terrorist training camps are..and they also know women and children are being used..
Nobody can absolutely blame US when they say Pakistan is not doing enough to fight terrorism, but undertand there is no other dipomatic way to tell pakistan that US do not belive in pakistans crap tales.
US is day after day proving by firing missiles on terror camps and showing pakistanis that they failed to find them..and US found them with out even stepping in to pakistan..

Posted by Om | Report as abusive

cynarra, ask yourself one question: why did those people dance on the streets? Why do some people hate USA so much? Try to see things from a different perspective and you’ll see that it’s easy to see us as an aggressor and occupation force, which is not welcome. The only difference between those terrorists and USA is the location, where the event is taking place.

Posted by al | Report as abusive

Civilian casualties ?? somebody please tell me how will one distinguis between and terrorist and a civilian in a shit hole like pakistan ?? everybody has a long nasty beard, everybody wear a same cap same dress!!
I guess on can distinguish between army and other people in there coz of their uniforms.
Just thinking how bigger and mamoth task is this for US to do alone !! even if you consider 10% of pakistani people are terrorists..US have to find and execute 18.5million people among them..Now if here and there if you find a few civilians dying..Not a big deal..

Posted by Om | Report as abusive

Civilian casualties ?? somebody please tell me how will one distinguis between and terrorist and a civilian in a shit hole like pakistan ?? everybody has a long nasty beard, everybody wear a same cap same dress!!
They all look like terrorists.
I guess on can distinguish between army and other people in there coz of their uniforms.
Just thinking how bigger and mamoth task is this for US to do alone !! even if you consider 10% of pakistani people are terrorists..US have to find and execute 18.5million people among them..Now if here and there if you find a few civilians dying..Not a big deal..

Posted by Om | Report as abusive

if people cross a national border and attack people in the other nation–that is if pakistan attacks afghanistan it looks like you are saying — those of you angry at the USA and who are Pakistani, it looks like you are saying its ok if killers and bandits attack people in Afghanistan and then cross over to camps in Pakistan ? Is that what you are saying Pakistanis ? – - Cynara

Posted by Cynara Derr | Report as abusive

umair states he will aid the terrorists with all the blood of Pakistan…will Pakistanis allow themselves to be used by the Arab visitors in their nation ? haha this is very funny, the USA isnt trying to offend Pakistan but as you can see readers — the terrorists want to see Pakistan and USA fight. There is no problem of the USA with Pakistan . Arrest those people in Pakistan who try to start war with the USA .- Cynara

Posted by Cynara Derr | Report as abusive

Its another MAD Bush policy to cover up their acts.
If taliban or al qaeda come from Pakistan kill US army and then go back, why American and NATO soldier are watching this movie as they do so.

Things are simple if they are coming from Pakistan side then at Afghan border should be properly protected inside Aghanistan to stop this.

Its just dirty Politics!!

Posted by Ahsan | Report as abusive

There are couple of factors peole need to realize. Muslims are taking care of the finatics in their socitey however if Muslims are pressed to “do more” it will only strengthen the extremists in Muslim countries”. If hard liners take over in Muslim countries the most affected will be the moderate Muslims. It must be relaliezed that world’s at least one third population is Muslim, and I would argue that they are even more than 50%. There are 60 Muslim countries where over 90% population is Muslim. Besides there are numerous Muslims in other countries which even are most of the time not taken into consideration e.g. india has over 150 million Muslims, China has several provinces whith dominant Muslim population besides Hui chinies which are also Muslim though they look Chinies esitimates of Muslims in China are somewhere between 100 million to 200 millions. There is a large Muslim presence in European and North America. There are some estimates that Muslims will constitute 40% of Russian Army within 20 years. Getting into head on collusion with such a big number of people on global basis is not a wise thing. Majority of Muslims just want to live peacefully.

The point I am trying to make is that there are simply too many Muslims in the world. My estimate is that currently Muslims constitute over 50% of the world population. The best policy for West will be to learn to start respecting Muslims which they have problem to do. Muslims are too numerous to be eliminated and there is no point in reviving the Crusades. It is very easy to start that supid cycle of centureis of crusade wars which are burried in history.

If PK will be attacked then it will be extemely dangerous situation. Hardliners in Muslim countries will be able to say that “look Pakistan served the Western interst for so long, so faithfully and what happend to them?”. Besides does anybody know that PK has unspecified number of Nuclear weapons? If PK block the only spply route of Nato to Afghanistan then it will be very difficult to contine the war in Afghanistan.

Posted by sherdil | Report as abusive

This is not a war on terror, it’s a war which is making new terrorist. Cynara you are talking abt 9/11 and those 3000 ppl. Well america has killed 300000 ppl in Iraq in Afghanistan, Pakistan etc etc and guess wat they were not terrorist but innocent ppl just like those 3000 in those twin towers. Go read some news which doesnt originates from USA. You will see alot of suffering caused by superior Americans to inferior muslims. I think you find American blood more expensive then a muslim one. You and your mentality, ppl like you who are making terrorists by encouraging these worthless wars.

Posted by Ali | Report as abusive

btw!! i forgot to mention that ppl killed by Usa in these wars is far more then 300000. So lets say give or take few more “0″.

Posted by Ali | Report as abusive

if any one is to be blamed for 9/11 event and that has to be USA, usa government has killed 2900 people in their own country to blame muslims its crystal clear if they dont admit today they will in 20 or 30 years time all those who say bad things about pakistan are enemies of pakistan enemy will always point finger at pakistan this is a fact

Posted by khan | Report as abusive

Cynara!
I guess you are sick, are u suffering from hysteria? Go catch some sleep and log out.

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive

pakistan… as you sow, as you reap.

Posted by tom alter | Report as abusive

i am very impressed with Ali. He somehow knows how many people are killed in wars…how does Ali do this ? With a crystal ball ? Ali give me a future winning lottery ticket number, I want to be rich ! – Cynara

Posted by Cynara Derr | Report as abusive

I wish to thank so many for being polite to me in this chat area…i appreciate that.
Now if you are men of quality you will not allow any more war. Please stop the violence inside Pakistan. Please stop these Muslim fanatics. Numbers of nation who are muslim or people who are Muslim means little if some nations will imprison or kill people who wish to no longer be Muslim…smiles… some of you write well but you think you can sell me the rear end of the Horse/Donkey while your friends walk off with the front part of the animal…It is very amusing to see how you decide that sept 11 2001 is not an act of war… it is very clever for you to tell the Americans to stop the war to kill the planners of 911…it is very funny that you think we in the USA will ever stop being on the doorstep of any nation that aids terrorists who try to hurt or kill Americans, British or Europeans innocent people, I am not tired… but thank you.
I am glad to tell you the American views.

Posted by Cynara Derr | Report as abusive

get your house in order Pakistan and the USA can go Home…

Posted by Cynara Derr | Report as abusive

Pakistan is a terrorist state period. Why do we forget terror attacks on Indian embassy in Kabul? Complicity of pakistan army (even its chief Kayani) has been proved beyond doubt. Pakistan govt. and army have been using terrorism to settle political issues with its neighbours like Afghanistan and India. The only solution to this problem is to divide pakistan into four countries (Punjab, Sindh, Baloochistan and NWFP).

Posted by SS | Report as abusive

[...] US attacks 5th time in a week! | PAF patrols Pak skies Facing up to ?the war in Pakistan? Reuters | 14 Sep 2008 There has been much hesitation in the world?s media about how to label U.S. [...]

There is a truth that “we haven’t been facing up to” – the fact that Pakistani Intelligence works with and is allied with the Taleban and Al-Qaeda. That’s why Pakistan has been sheltering them since 9/11.

I’m afraid Pakistan was never really our partner in the war on terror, they were simply using the premise to shake money out of the West.

Posted by Face It | Report as abusive

Cynara I have pity on you. Arent you ashame? i mean your comments are completely sick. You really need to log off and go to sleep. Why do you care about Pakistan so much. You have nothing to do with Pakistan. Are you a Pakistani? certainly NO. Who the F*** are you a B*stard? I guess so.
OK better do a favour. Sorry for my choice of words. Can you please not post on this blog anymore? thanks

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive

Cynara, you fuckin pretend to be an American, i bet your’e an Indian idiot posting out of a gutter in India(the shithole of the world).
I LOVE PAKISTAN!

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive

You are all kind to me, as kind as you can be at these nasty times… I am grateful.
I will not bother you any more. – Cynara

Posted by Cynara Derr | Report as abusive

[...] are just terribly uninformed. Hussein’s Iraq and al Qaeda not linked, Pentagon says – CNN.com Pakistan: Now or Never? ? Blog Archive ? Facing up to “the war in Pakistan” | Blogs | Re… Perpetuating the al-Qaeda-Iraq Myth – TIME Al Qaeda-Hussein Link Is Dismissed (washingtonpost.com) [...]

If USA Behave like a friend we welcome,if it behave like a enemy we welcome him as enemy.We welcome if USA attack on Pakistan.I hope CIA dont forget to put a report to its president that Pakistan is a Nuke state.Tigers waiting in mountains for enemies.Review your polices Mr.Prisdent.Reality is that USA defeated in Iraq and Afghanistan.I hope who compare iraq and Afghnistan with Pakistan ,need to update their knowledge.Pakistan will be happy if USA bring isreal and india with them as well.NATO are more intelligent that USA.why they are not attacking just think?Nukes waiting for you go head.

Posted by malik | Report as abusive

All’s fair in love and war.

Cynara my friend how do i know the numbers. Well i have sources of news and information other then American media. I suggest u go on some fact finding mission. End of the day root of all problem is USA’s idiotic policies and hawkish minds, the mentality to control everything. Stop being gunslinging cowboys and shoot your way out of every single problem. America created these terrorists, used them abused them and then discarded them. Stop!! these wars, we ppl have no idea what those innocent ppl are goig through. We can make tall claims and try to be well hard behind our computers but we dont know the ground realities. Human life is to precious to be wasted.
P.S do look up on numbers of ppl killed. May be i am wrong i think wrote too few.

Posted by Ali | Report as abusive

[...] and Afghanistan, but this time on the territory of a nuclear-armed country, for the wrong reasons? Pakistan: Now or Never? Blog Archive Facing up to “the war in Pakistan” | Blogs | Reuter… ——————————– The link to Juan Coles analysis mentioned in the article is: [...]

I find it amusing that Pakistan’s intellignce agencies are being ‘credited’ with so many problems, including working ‘against US interests.’

This is funny because:

1. It’s not their job to look out for US interests. It’s their job to serve Pakistan’s national interest. Does the world community denounce the CIA for working against, say, China’s interests?

2. Why make the ISI the bogeyman? The combined forces of NATO have been unable to prevail in Afghanistan (not to mention the mess in Iraq.) Does this mean that NATO forces or CIA or whoever is supporting AL Qaeda or the Taleban? Of course not. This is a difficult, messy war.

In the same way the Pakistan Army has engaged in battle with the militants at great cost to life. It will take more time and a whole lot more support and cooperation from it’s so-called allies before the tide is comclusively turned.

3. If any intelligence agency deserves to be sripped of its power it’s the CIA – they have a rich, long, dishonourable tradition of killing people all over the globe, not to mention torture and ‘rendition,’ all while the land of the brave and free claims the moral high ground in the war on terror. The right to freedom, liberty etc is only inalienable if you’re NOT a Muslim is the obvious conclusion.

Posted by A R Nizami | Report as abusive

Any effort to save Pakistan from destruction would simply protecting Muslim terrorists and their hide ground(Pak).Nothing will work against Muslim Terrorists unless we completely destroy their all production units spread across Pakistan In the form of Mosques and Madrasas.I might have little doubt about how much US and WEST have suffered from Pakistan Terror industry but I’m sure India has suffered the most from Pakistani Muslim Terrorists.
The coward Muslim terristd from Pakistan have killed tens of thousands of innocent Kasmiri hindus and as a result of their terror hundreds of thousands of Kashmiri hindus have left the vally.Now these muslim terrorists have converted kashmir into a Muslim majority vally and talibanisation is on full swing.Now most of the muslim population in kashmir is on the verge to become full fledge terrorist,they are shouting slogans of indipendence from india and Pak jindabad(Live long).This is the real face of
muslim terrorists.
Pakistan has only booming industry Terrorism and only one agenda kill innocent people arround the world cowadly.
World need to eleminate them from scratch.This is not possible until we destroy pakistan inc. its terror factories(Mosques,Madrasas) and teroor exporters(Pak army and ISI).
DISTRUCTION OF THESE MUSLIM TERRORISTS WOULD BRING ULTIMATE PEACE TO THE WORLD.

Posted by Kumar | Report as abusive

Getting a taste of your own medicine eh!

The US had created the Taliban/Mujahideen to fight the Russians in Afghanistan.

Please do not make the life of your future Govt. more miserable then what it already is. Are you listening GW.

Posted by Ian Schmidt | Report as abusive

Dear all, here no one should forget that US made these Al quaida and Taliban to beat Soviet forces, who are trying the same what US is doing now, ‘to moderate islamic extremism in afgan sponsered by Pak’. US entered to defeat communism with Islamic radicalism and once they did their job, these extremes are jobless they fought themselves and some tried same method in India and it is still continuing. US and PAK lost control of these terrorists and they are chasing US now. Pak caught between two snakes. It stuck in its own web. US should learn a lesson now, that they should stop preaching others about democracy and world order and order themselves and behave like equal citizens of the world not First among equals.

Posted by Parikshit Suri | Report as abusive

USA – WHAT THIS NATION HAS CONTRIBUTED TO THE WORLD
HIROSHIMA
NAGASAKI

VIETNAM
CUBA
VENEZUALA
COLOMBIA
CHEQUERA
AFGHANISTAN
IRAQ
PALESTINE

FOR THE SMALL AMOUNT OF PEOPLE LIVING IN US THEY ARE KILLING MILLIONS OF HUMAN BEING WHY THE PEOPLE ARE LAUGHING WHEN SEP 11 HAPPEN BECZ YOU HAVE COMMITTING GENOCIDE AROUND THE WORLD

CHECK THE WEALTH OF BUSH FAMILY AND HALLIBURTONS DICK CHENEY’S

WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT YOU ?

WORLD POLICE R WHAT?

WHO IS PRODUCING MORE WEAPONS AND SUPPLYING TO THE THIRD WORLD COUNTRIES

THATS WHY GOD ALMIGHTY DESTROYING THE US WITH NATURAL CALAMITIES

US SOON LOOSE EVERYTHING

THE PEOPLE OF UNITED STATES SHOULD THINK WHAT THEIR LEADERS ARE DOING WHETHER MAKE PEACE OR WAR

Posted by fathahul rabbani | Report as abusive

posters above reveal tribal instincts from hubristic US, zionist and hindu perspectives. All of you do not see how biased and self-destructive your opinions are in in an atomic age when there is but NO choice to seek common ground and push inter-dependance and internationalism.

What your global readership must note is neither America or the EU has grown a mature civic sense. Most western citizens are only willing to settle a personal score. Even the most well read among us cannot fathom HOW they can get along with those who may harbor the faintest dissent.

Re intervention in Pakistan. Your article fails to note the total absence of rural nation-building and development without which we here in the US cannot advance a parallel militarist posture. It seems we have failed to gain the trust of the Pak security structures by not sharing intelligence. At the highest levels we have failed to build the necessary bridges without which there can be literally no success. Without their help there will be no progress on this front

Posted by CMyers | Report as abusive

enough said one side biased towards Pakistan and Muslims. terrorist exists everywhere only when they are muslim they are shown more! Some Indian cant stay out of this topic that is Afghan Pakistan issue. Its easy to blame Pakistan border areas when non existant Afghan Army with all the help from NATO cant control area out of merely Kabul. Do the Afghan/US control is so great in western and northern broder areas? are these areas also controlled by Taliban entering from Pakistan side? have a reality check. there might be few people hiding on Paksitan border areas, what Afghanistan/US has done to prevent any incursions(if that is the only cause of mission failure)? Here I also want to point out Afghanistan and Pakistan are not same countries, one has strong army, police and establishment and compared to Afghanistan is far more developed. I get your house sorted before blaming only Pakistan. Biggest source of Taliban is Afghanistan, thats not creation of Pakistan/ISI go back a little further the “Mujahideen” created by CIA that now become two organisations 1. Al Qaeda, 2 Taliban. Cleaning this age old mess is not going to happen overnight. Instead of blaming Pakistan a well thought out plan is needed in consultation with Afghanistan and Pakistan, US cant win without that.

Posted by Shakil | Report as abusive

Waging war against the nuclear armed terrorist state of Pakistan is the duty of every freedom loving man and woman on this earth. Nuking these lowly, lying scoundrels would be a start.

Posted by Neon | Report as abusive

If a Pakistani gunship had killed 20+ American civillians on US soil the US and half the world would be up in arms against the “Terrorist” regime who commited such a barbaric act. The fact that its the US that killed the Pakistani Civillians has got people trying to justify further action let alone condemming the attacks that have happened (needless to say there was no apology for the civilians killed)

Like it or not, and know it or not the majority of people in the West believe that American blood is worth more than Muslim/Pakistani blood. Untill this bias in the people and the media is stopped there will never be peace justice in any part of the world..

Posted by aeb | Report as abusive

If Obama becomes the next US president & Advani leads BJP to landslide victory in India…. Then dear Pakistanis your country is gonna Rest in Peace (RIP)…. You the country of all international terrorist outfits is a shame to the whole world… Insallah Yeh Haarami Mulk kho Zabak Dikhaana… Ise Duniya sey Mittaana..

Posted by Waseem | Report as abusive

[...] MacDonald sums it up well: There has been much hesitation in the world’s media about how to label U.S. [...]

dear americans,
Please use green and clean nuclear weapons while nuking Pakistan.
Coz we peace-loving Indians and Afghans are in the neighborhood. Dont nuke poor Baloch-Sindh ppl..just the punjabi scum..Good luck with the nuke though..use it carefully..I hope u will..

Posted by Angry_Indian | Report as abusive

[...] While Afghanistan is where our efforts should be (should have been instead of Iraq), are we once again going about this the wrong way? Or is there no right way? What do the candidates think about all this, or is lipstick on pigs more important? Pakistan: Now or Never? — Facing up to “the war in Pakistan” [...]

i am sick of hearing that innocent civilians were killed by US in covert strikes in Waziristan. Why the fuk in the name of GOD will highly trained US Seals & Delta go on a dangerous Paki territory full of filthy Al-Queda scum to kill a couple of women and children. If they want to kill women and children hypothetically speaking..they could have given some dollars to Paki troops..they would have dun it themselves. You conspiracy theory addicted Islamic junks wont get it ..will ya..Its true that unplanned close support missions in Afghanistan led to death of 90 or so civilians..that too misguided by malicious informants(probably Taliban or ISI). But the Pak mission is a pre-planned mission, I wouldnt buy the argument that those people are innocent. It is also possible that after the strike for info war purposes..the Al-Queda themselves killed women and children and put them in those targeted houses to enrage Pak public after the strike. Or they could be “n”th local young wife and children of old Haqqani or his son that were killed in the strike. Between Taliban also recruits very young children as fighters(I have seen cute young 12-13 yrs old Taliban fighters in photos), so Seal team 6 might have encountered them in firefight. I hope the pakis got the point instead of painting things black and white.

Posted by Angry_Indian | Report as abusive

@aeb,

No one will bother Pakistan if Pakistanis keep terrorists within their own country and spend their energy to develop their nation than sending terrorists in the name of freedom fighting to neighbouring countries. World is worried about Pakistan coz, Pakistan is exporting terrorists to Afghanistan, India and rest of the world. Fix your home first before fixing Afghanistan or Kashmir and clean your country of terrorists. You sow and cultivate terrorists and you reap terrorists. It’s like mosquitoes, mosquitoes bite people and trouble them till it become unbearable when we have to close the gutter from where these mosquitoes originate.

Posted by Sudhir | Report as abusive

“Sudhir”

Firstly allow me to mention I am not Pakistani, and my certain red passport is something people in your country (Your Bias and hate shows as India) would kill for.

Allow me to congratulate you on an eloquent and well constructed argument. If you can get over your blinding bias you will realise the Pakistan government arnt sending terrorists to other countries. They became an enemy to terrorists and a target themselves by supporting the US in the “War on Terror”.

As for “keep terrorists in your own country” as anyone with the slightest knowledge on the logistics of international relations would know, managing borders is a JOINT responsibility – something the majority of people on this, and the reuters jounalists seem to have forgotten.

Whichever side on would lean towards in this argument i honestly do hope you (and a lot of others on this) can at the very least rise above the blatent hate you have for each other (leading to inevitble bias). It is exactly this hate that you have been taught, and will no doubt teach to generations after you which create and fuel the extremist (on both sides) attitudes and behaviours we face today

Posted by aeb | Report as abusive

Some of the comments here ae really hilarious. some pakistani’s here are just ready for war . these low life’s are talking about statistical data on nuclear power of pak and people killed by US wars. To be frank pak nuclear warheads can hardly reach india(u can confirm this on any encyclopedia eg wikipedia). So dont fantasize about any nuke war. Because of some braindead people pakistan is on the verge of self destruction.

whereas US is taking advantage of this fact. Does anyone think US will go raidin Russia on the lookout for some terrorist operatives???

Pakistan should start taking control of its own country. they should take an example from middle-eastern countries,even they are muslim states. they have unity in themselves.

Right now “pakistan is the enemy of pakistan”

Posted by concerned | Report as abusive

oh and “angry Indian” when international news agencies, the pakistani army, those from surrounding villages AND international observers all confirm reports civillians where killed and you out of the blue deny it…….it makes u seem rather like a “conspiracy theory addicted Islamic junk”

This debate seems to have become more of a battleground for you (alongside other indians) and pakistanis to vent your ageold ethnic tensions. Reuters comments are for people to put thier views and arguments foward. Not their hates and prejeducices, many comments i have read should be barred

Posted by aeb | Report as abusive

Please spare everyone sob stories about the saintly, peace-loving Hindu nation. You guys have more than your fair share of madmen who in the name of their religion have repeatedly murdered, burnt and looted Christians, Sikhs and Muslims, many times with the cooperation of local authorities – all this despite your much-vaunted oft-spouted secularism.

Terrorists are criminals regardless of the cause/religion/philosophy they exploit to justify their actions. They should be dealt with as the murderers they are. So let the Indian apologists hunt down their own fanatics – instead of voting them into power! Let Pakistan deal with its own extremists.

These extremists are a legacy of the Afghan war, when US dollars recruited, trained and funded local and foreign mercenaries, rallying them under the banner of jihad. Once the war ended, the US conveniently withdrew, leaving behind a mess that has festered into the extremism that is rampant in that region today.

The focus of the Pakistan Army is on cleaning up the spillover of this mess into Pakistan (pls note in addition to militancy, the Afghan war and Pakistan’s role as ally led to a huge influx of refugees, weapons and heroin, with all its consequences).

This time round the US should learn a lesson from the past and cooperate in an effective and timely manner with the Pakistani authorities to implement the kind of ‘hearts and minds’ campaign that is required in addition to military support to defeat extremism in the entire region.

Cheap Hollywood stunts like border invasions and killing civilians is hardly a way to win people over to your side and will only fuel more anti-US reactions, if not actually trigger a full-scale war in the entire region.

Instead of babbling about Muslim terrorists in the hysterical fashion some people affect, let us instead discuss ways of making the war against terrorists more effective – in this particular case, the terrorists who conveniently exploit the banner of Islam to justify their crimes.

Posted by A R Nizami | Report as abusive

Ali shows that we can all get along if we have a common ground of respect…i hope that the nation of Pakistan understands that America (USA) does not dislike Pakistan. We do not wish harm to Pakistan, America has to remove the terrorists who celebrate 911 and keep Bin Laden and his followers safe in Pakistan, Yes no mystery as to where AL Queada and Taliban are. Yes Ali shows that he and I can discuss these matters as thinking people and understand one another.
There is no reason the Army of Pakistan (AP)cannot work with NATO and USA unless some in the AP are violently hostile to the USA. If so we must get these battles over with, so the world can live in Peace once again. The world would like to see India and Pakistan live in peace for we all know what happens if India and Pakistan destroy each other with nuclear weapons…We would miss and regret the loss of both these cultures. Please try to get along indian and pakistan.
–Cynara– I bother you no more messengers.

Posted by Cynara Derr | Report as abusive

one more thing, this room of messages should be copied and studied by all sides…with some understanding maybe all sides can draw up a peace plan and settle differences at the negotiations table…men of quality want to live and enjoy what they have. there is no reason to fight to the death. we have to live in peace or we all suffer and fear each day we walk in a marketplace. remember the mad bombers kill innocent people…all people should remove the mad bombers from their societies… it is very important. you all have done well to explain your views… you do so in hopes the other side listens to you so that they do not attack you… i understand this well.
-cynara is finished and thanks you all again.

Posted by Cynara Derr | Report as abusive

Cynara
I apologize again for my choice of bad words last time. Your recent post is even better. Thanks and i also share your views.

Posted by UMPK | Report as abusive

Pakistan is a terrorist state. I am sure everybody knows that deep down. Now about US attacking Pakistan territory. What else would u have them do? On one hand Pakistan asks for F16s to fight terrorists which is quite laughable on the other hand they make dubious peace deals. We all know what those f16s are for (ask Indian pilots). Now about the so called Pakistani effort. Hmm….Its quite simple, they don’t have any control over that territory and at the same time they need to do just about enough to keep everyone calm. So yeah they have a few battles up their sleeves but just not enough to remove Taliban because thats not what they want anyway. Anyone can see through their double game if they really try to understand Pakistan. As for some one calling India a gutter hole…..well at least now we know there is something far worse than a gutter hole. Pakistan is an foreign aid based economy. The least it can do as any self respecting country is not brag about it.

Posted by Indian | Report as abusive

i wish to one person from india talks about peace
read all above posted articles from indians all full of hate and suggtions to kill innnocent people what a shame and what shameful nation

Posted by arsh | Report as abusive

I notice that most of you have no problem with mass murder in the furtherance of geopolitical objectives–commonly known as war–as long as you don’t have to fight in it. Your ignorance about the real nature of the “war on terror” is almost laughable. And your macho posturing isn’t a substitute for action, however you may define it. Just remember: Threats are useless, facts are facts, and payment is often expensive. Keep pouring gasoline on the fire and watch the world ignite.

Posted by Arch Stanton | Report as abusive

I know the solution to this series of unwinnable wars: another unwinnable war! It’s genius. Or stupid. But so stupid it just might work!

How is there anybody in the world today that is not tired of all the fighting over bones in the sand? I swear the leaders of all our nations simply do not get laid enough. I cannot think of any other reason they are so endlessly filled with vitriol over anything and everything. We agree that terrorism is the most soulless act; yet we punish it by “shock and awe” shows of force? We agree that terrorism presents threats to our global institutions, so we rip those institutions apart for the sake of fighting wars to oppose those threats? Of course we have to fight Pakistan, we say–they threaten global stability, even if that itself means threatening global stability. It really gets to be tiring.

I believe we are only as strong as our belief in strong global institutions. This makes me a starry-eyed idealist, somehow. Yet who is more delusional? Every time in which global institutions have been strong (like immediately after the Napoleonic Wars, or after World War II) despite strong incentives for war, there has been peace. Every time they are weak (like after World War I and, well, right now) wars spring up faster than we have names for them.

Do nations sometimes have no recourse but to go to war with other nations? Doesn’t that question contain within it an assumed rationale for war? What war has had this little thing, a proper basis, in the past century–or ever? If we stop making bombs, our enemies won’t. That’s the argument. But every time two nations sit at the negotiating table, they find it surprisingly easy to decide to stop making bombs; the one thing leaders can always agree on is the terrible burden placed on them by war. But how do you get these nations to sit down in the first place? Oh yeah, that’s right, strong global institutions!

Bellicose despots like my country’s president, G.W., are so few and far between. That’s why when he looked around for countries to attack all he could find was a desert nation which, after ten years of sanction-inspired neglect was already in ruins. (And we creamed them! Go America!) Which brings us around to the central question: what do you do with a bully? Do you ignore him? Do you stand up to him? I don’t know the answer to this question, but the worst fate of all is to become a bully for being bullied. Don’t you think?

Posted by Ben | Report as abusive

Mr Arsh,
Those days gone when Indian spoke and practice about non-violence and Gandhian cowardice thought.Our enemies has taken enough advantage of our peaceful policies.their cruelty has no match in the history of world(what they have done to hindus).They (muslim invader) destroyed india’s culture ,relegion and social integrity by bloody wars.They converted innocent weaponless hindus to Muslims by bloodshed.Its all becoz of too much non-violence practice.
We Indian want the peace ,we worship it and practiced it for centuaries but cruel invaders never respected us.Their hunger for peaceful hindus blood hasn’t yet satisfied.They are still bombings India.
Muslim terrorists and Invaders forced us to change our policy.Cruel muslims terrorists can only be defeated by Superviolence.We can’t forgive them anymore.Time is changing and this is messege to Muslim terrorists,we’ll not only gonna destroy you but your entire wellwisher and producers are also going to hell.
Your Celebration time is over.your journey to hell would bigin very soon evils.

Posted by Kumar | Report as abusive

The US is not going to solve the terrorist problem with a military solution. The more people the US kills in central Asia, the more terrorists are made. The solution, if there is any, is going to have to be political.
First, we Americans need to listen to what are enemies are saying, and then, we need to begin dialoque with them, and stop calling them terrorists for that only dehumanizes them. We don’t want them to dehumanize us, we better not dehumanize them. Dennis

Posted by Dennis | Report as abusive

@Dennis,

Are you mad?. Terrorists know no negotiations and don’t know humanity. They are not human beings as humans have the most developed brain than the other living beings and that differentitates them from animals. These terrorists are not born with the brain and radicals, no matter what religion they belongs to, they are always under illusion. You have to call people who plant bombs and kills innocents as animals. Calling them humans is a disgrace to humanity. The only solution i feel is to nuke terrorists training centers. Remember the second world war ended when US nuked Japan and there was peace in the world for larger part of time after that.

Posted by Sudhir | Report as abusive

So now it’s Pakistan.

Hell, what can I say? I had nothing to do with it — voted for the other guy (lotta good that did), marched around some (and got a parking ticket for my trouble) and generally bad-mouthed the regime to anyone even vaguely interested in listening.
So what do I get for my trouble? Sara Palin.

So let me apologise for my fellow Americans up front before things get any worse. Believe me, there are many of us who agree and feel deep shame at the actions of our “government”. As for the rest of our “countrymen”… well, Maybe Gen. Jack D. Ripper had it right the first time — It’s something in the water.

Posted by Ashamed American | Report as abusive

Reading through many comments posted by our american friends who think terrorists and pakistanis should be delt in some other way other than war a dialouge perhaps only shows your inexperience and immaturity in understanding who what pakistan is and who terrorists are. Learn from Indian decades of experience contain pakistan and its terrorists. Every other method has been tried only to fail. You should feel fortunate to have a administrator like Bush who can make hard decisions regarding war to protect US and its allies. You can imagine the frustration being in India lead by coward politicians who nly fear vote banks and cannot make a hard decision once but ready to leave Indian voters to suffer with terrorist strikes.

Posted by Om | Report as abusive

You know, I think I got something figured out.
I saw a poll from India per Indian citizens opinions about Obama.
It was like 9% Pro.
Which says to me the Indians would just love the US to trash out Pakistan for them… and then collect all the largesse from our “relief” efforts while having a trad enemy permanently erased.
Reminds me of another American relationship — the Israeli one.

Posted by Ashamed American | Report as abusive

Why are people bringing India into a fight between Pakistan and USA??
The Americans crossed into the border and killed a few Pakistanis. Where does India come into the picture?
Also, no one is Mr. clean.
The US and Pakistan jointly created the mujaheddin and the Taliban to oust the soviets. And now are reaping the fruits of the tree they sowed.

@ Ashamed American, which report are you talking about? Broaden your horizons my dear. Read some local Indian news too. Most of the Indians wouldn’t even know who Obama or Mcain is. As for Indians not favoring Obama, the people who actually know about Obama and Mcain in the country favor Obama and wish we had a leader like him. i dont have any research done but i have talked to people in my circle. Also you should be knowing that even Obama thinks that US should be strict with Pakistan.
And we still remember that US actually aided Pakistan in its wars against India, probably with the exception of Kargil.

@aeb, I have a certain blue passport and I am proud of it. Wouldn’t exchange for anything red.. makes me see red actually. :)
As far as managing borders is concerned, I wish you had Pakistan as a neighbor, probably then you would have understood our problems. Anyways, yes its a joint responsibility but both the parties should act responsible too. What do you do if one side doesn’t behave in an appropriate manner?
I agree with you that there are extreme views on both the sides. But can you tell me when has India behaved in an irresponsible manner with Pakistan? Also, you haven’t faced the problem of terrorism as much as the Indians have had to face and are facing even now.
Unfortunately, terrorist strikes in India do not get the kind of world media attention, which your red passport country will get. Do you have any idea how many bombs have gone off in India in this year alone?

@ Angry_Indian, there is no weapon or army created in the world which can differentiate between terrorists and civilians.
Also to some of the fellow Indians, you will do much better to write some sense rather than nuke Pakistan, won’t solve the problem dear. Perceptions will have to change.

@ Cynara, US is not the good guy anyways. US will do well not get itself involved in other countries affairs.
In the name of spreading democracy US is taking away the right of other people to decide the kind of government they want. If they want democracy, they will struggle for it and eventually get it. Don’t involve yourself and also its all double standards. When it suits the US it will support the worst of the dictators. And Iraq was all for oil not for Al-qaida.

Now back to the topic, in any war in these times when the war fought in cities and villages (urban warfare) there will be collateral damage. I am not saying this is correct but it is inevitable.
These wars are called asymmetrical warfare. The technologically weaker party takes shelter in civilian areas and hope the enemy to cause collateral damage. So that they can use those damages as a propaganda tool to affect the world view.
Also, Pakistan anyways takes military aid from US. So it will be better for them to have joint operations, an attack on the terrorists hide-out from both sides. One by the Pakistan army moving in from Punjab and the other from NATO army moving in from Afghanistan.
As for the propaganda problem, a quick decisive victory solves everything. Endure the pain as long as you dont win. After all history is written by the victorious.

Posted by Aman | Report as abusive

“Aman”

Firstly let me congratulate you on being pround of your passport, good for you ;)

The reasons i bring India into the debate is for the purposes of highlighting many people on this blogs blatent Bias. India has a very little – if that – role to play in the pakistan/US/Afganistan issue. It is the blatent bias of the people making the comments that infuriates me though, “Nuking these lowly, lying scoundrels would be a start” “mosquitoes” “dogs” etc, this blatent indian Bias against Pakistanis as a whole rather than terrorists does nothing but belittle themselves, embarras their nation and reduce this debating platform into an area encumbant with petty jibes and racist, frankly disgusting behaviour.

Why should US not interfere? Because it is there very tactics of careless bombing and large civilian casualties that put civillians in the same boat as the terrorists. Let alone their presence on the land igniting local tensions. The ethnic tribespeople are not terrorists (yes believe it or not some of the people on here) but independant (yes somewhat traditional)proud people. The more the Pakistani Army launches attacks and the moment a foreign force enters the land you go from fighting some terrorists to having the whole tribal areas turn against them. And in a situation where they know the mountains for generation upon generation, this is not the best of ideas by far. Pretty much the ONLY way to REMOVE the terrorists from these lands is to turn the loacals against them, much like the iraqi ‘Awakening Councils’ (Cut violence by at least 90%). As for preventing/reducing the amount of attacks from the lands the best course of action is for stringent border control, NEVER a US presence/Raid in the tribal areas – worse than shaking a Hornets Nest.
I agree it is a joint responsibility but the (reported) lack of effort on one side is never an excuse to enter anothers territory. Its harder but POSSIBLE to control the border from one side (with the use of extensive buffer zones etc).

And il agree, sadly due to the higher level of attacks, and the Bias of the media in my country i have very little appriciation for the number of terrorist attcks committed against indians. (Some also committed by indians you cannot deny). And as for India wronging Pakistan you and I both know that debate alone can last for pages and pages. But at the end of the day every civillian killed by a US airstrike are in their own way also a victim of terrorism, and as a lot of people here will not agree each victim is equal. Essentially this conflict needs to be dealt whith subtly by politicians and police not the indiscriminate missiles of the USA

Posted by aeb | Report as abusive

why people lecturing for terrorists now? becoz US has turned their missiles towards pakistan to destroy safe heaven of brutal Muslim terrorists.It seems like some people are desperate to raise their voices in support of muslim terrorists.where were these people when kashmir was burning for decades,Hindus were killed and tortured to leave kasmir,Muslim terrorists were bombing India targetting temples and innocent hindus.No wonder these so called humanitarian brigade or secular gentlemen sealed their lips.They didn’t bother to ask pakistan when Pakistani military and ISI conspiracy unmasked infront of world?No one is daring to say a single word to pakistan when they blasted Indian embassy in afghan killing indian officials working for afghan development.In every above mentioned events and countless terror attacks on India ,Pakistan army,Isi and Muslim terrorists were directly involved.
You people might certainly get an offer from Muslim terrorists to Join them and advocate for them.
Once again ,Pakistan is proven terrorist country.Indian is under threat from this terrorist country and we(India) must make a lead in war agaist terror to destroy terror factories and organisations producing Muslim terrorists.That would bring peace in the world including Kashmir and afghan.
US recent missile attack on Pak soil is confirmation of Indian long chatterd charge that Pakistan is behing every single Terro attack in India .Now world is saying the same becoz even they are suffering from this explosive nation.
Debate should begin on whether Pakistan should be detroyed completely or It should be ruled by International (led by Indian) forces to eradicate Militants and their factories(Mosques and Madrasas).
War On this Terrorist Nation by world is inescapable.

Posted by Kumar | Report as abusive

In the interim, the US loses habeaus corpus due to a war based on fraud.

Posted by Anonymous | Report as abusive

well America you are creating hatred within the hearts of Pakistanis for your self..this is the beginning of a new war,these Pakistani tribal people are are never gonna let you go so easily, and trust me you don’t know much of these people.

The fact that the Pakistanki military is now taking action against the so called inaccessible areas demonstrates that the Pakistani military establishment, including the ISI, never really wanted to take action against the militants based in Pakistan. All the wanted was the American military to be engaged and hunkered down in Afghanistan so that they can milk American tax payers of monetary subsidies. Pakistan is a failed state, with its government having no control over its military establishment and islamist insurgents running amok. No one should forget that the ISI created the Taleban in the 90s to overthrow the ruling Afghan government. Their support is very open and transperant.

Posted by Jerry | Report as abusive

To add to my comment above: “Pakistan is probably finding it difficult to kill the baby that it has created!”

Posted by Jerry | Report as abusive

This is the time to root out the real epicenter of international terrorism:INDIA. India is a hindu terrorist fanatic country, where christians are currently being slaughtered. Muslims were masacred in Gujrat, the Sikh Golden temple was destroyed, the Hindu fundamentalist terrorist do not spare anyone in this dictator India. Pakistan should gather a coalition and attack India and seek a regime change, terrorism has already taken roots in India. Hindu fundamentalists are trained and they conduct murders in the name of Hinduism.

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive

KUMAR
In response to your comment:”Debate should begin on whether Pakistan should be detroyed completely or It should be ruled by International (led by Indian) forces to eradicate Militants ”
PLEASE READ THE FOLLOWING:
No country on earth can destroy Pakistan, InshAllah. And if INDIA ever thinks of destroying Pakistan, well then just keep in mind one thing:
PAKISTAN IS CAPABLE OF DESTROYING INDIA WITH NUCLEAR BOMBS, PAKISTANI BOMB WAS INVENTED FOR INDIA AND INDIA ALONE. DO YOU GET IT OR NOT?????????
Pakistan Zindabad!

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive

A WORLD WAR III is inevitable between a Muslim Pakistan and Hindu India. PAKI POWER CRUSH INDIA.

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive

i agree with u UMAIR…..Pakistan is a nuclear state and we have the ability of doing much better than Indians could ever think,we are just waiting for out time. . . hey Indian don’t call the WORLD WAR-3 …this world already had enough of these wars

Posted by talha | Report as abusive

talha and umair, your country can’t even manufacture a screw without outside help. Please don’t make us all laugh by from one side of your mouth begging the US for more F16s, and then from the other side of your mouth threatening to use them against US troops. It’s vexing arguing with idiots, because even if you totally demolish their arguments, they still won’t realize when they’ve lost the argument. They’ll just keep blindly whining away, like the Black Knight from Monty Python.

Posted by Sanjay | Report as abusive

Mr.Umair,
Come out of fools paradise. No one even cares of Pakistan when it comes to international matters. When the word Pakistan comes to mind the whole world thinks about Terrorists and Jihad and nothing more. Yes, Attacks on Christians currently happening in India is to be condemned. I don’t support fanatic Hindus. Hindus are not creating terror in any other part of the world like Pakistan is doing. That happenend inside India and Indians were troubled coz of that. You Pakis were involved in London bombings and you can’t deny that. You Pakis had a hand in 9/11 and you can’t deny that either. If you keep terrorists in your country without sending them to either India, Afghanistan and the west no one will worry about Pakistan. Just imagine can Pakistan defeat India on a warfield?. It already has lost 3 wars and has its army already surrendered to Indian forces in 1971 war and lost Bangladesh(East Pakistan). It can’t fight India face to face hence indulging in terrorism and proxy war. Pakistan doesn’t want any progress and it is full of people with hatred and religious fanatics like you. By the way i would like to know about history syllabus in your schools coz Pakistan has only 60 years of history and that to all bad history.

Posted by Sudhir | Report as abusive

My goodness. I think this thread of answers shows what is wrong with humanity these days: Everybody is shouting, howling, and nobody tries to analyze. As a Norwegian citizen with pakistani, indian and afghani friends, I find it sad to see how the region is being exploited and the peoples of it set at each others throats. Who profits? The drug runners, the weapon merchants and the US military complex.

Unless Pakistan and India manage to grow up, they will continue to be like puppies in a game of big dogs. Pakistan has the power to kick the US out of Afghanistan by closing the supplylines. I do not understand why you stand for the americans to invade your country.

Posted by fnord | Report as abusive

Fnord u make some very good points

Posted by aeb | Report as abusive

sighs– so much for the war on terror….or to put in other words, some people do not want to eat in their kitchens but prefer war that gets them blown up in their kitchens. war is not a very good way to do international peaceful relations of people.
no more comments from me…i do not live in the areas affected by the latest violence.
i will let you all work it out.

Posted by Cynara Derr | Report as abusive

@aeb
Guessing from your passport, I am sure that your country doesn’t have the same problem with terrorism that India has. I am not denying that some of the terrorists are from India itself (misguided youth) the same can be said about your country also albeit at a much lower number.
By your comment I am sure you have no clue as to the number of terrorist attacks we have had this year alone.

As for blatant bias that most of the Indians have against Pakistan and vice-versa, it is sad but it is true. And the reason is frequent wars that these two have been involved in. Including one major war as recent as 1999. And few major skirmishes in this year.

Also do you even know the terrain of the boundary you are asking the two countries to manage? It is extremely porous and no army (including yours) can completely stop infiltration.

As for the debate on being a responsible citizen of this world. India has been very generous, please read about the initiatives taken by the previous and current government of India to resolve the issues. Available on Wikipedia, which I hope you wouldn’t call biased. Search for Kargil War and Indo-Pakistani relations. I am suggesting this because before commenting on anything, one should have sufficient knowledge, especially since you come across as a reasonable person.
I should say unlike the most on this forum, including many Indians.

I still stand by my previous comment, Pakistan and US should jointly fight this war. Indo-Pak relations can be improved later, it will happen sometime in future, but unfortunately that future looks quite far.

Anyways, defeating the terrorists is of prime importance now. I would say united we win, divided we lose.

Posted by Aman | Report as abusive

[...] As Andrew Bacevich tells us in the latest issue of the Atlantic, there’s now a vigorous debate going on in the military about the nature of the “next” American wars and how to prepare for them. However, while military officers argue, that “next war” may already be creeping up on us. Having, with much hoopla, launched wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, each disastrous in its own way, the Bush administration in its waning months seems intent on a slo-mo launching of a third war in the border regions of Pakistan. Almost every day now news trickles out of intensified American strikes – by Hellfire-missile armed Predator drones, or even commando raids from helicopters – in the Pakistani tribal areas along the Afghan border; and there is a drumbeat of threats of more to come. All of this, in turn, is reportedly only “phase one” of a three-phase Bush administration plan in which the American military “gloves” would “come off.” Think of this as the green-lighting of a new version of that old Vietnam-era tactic of “hot pursuit” across national borders, or think of it simply as the latest war. [...]

Cynara Derr.
KEEP IT UP,you have all the rights, these pakistani terrorists have lived for long like leeches,parasites & fed fat on hard-earned billions of dollars of american taxpayers money & see how these ungrateful,saditic morons dance on 9/11, kill brave american soldiers gleefully,let’s declare pakistan a terrorist state, be rest assured they all the same, pakistan is a born terrorist state.
pakistan murdabad!

Posted by Indian | Report as abusive

India is a hindu fundamentalist terrorist state, fanatics are killing christians, muslim Kashmiris have risen up against hindu fundamentalist rule, Sikhs hate hindu fanatics, the war mongerers kill in Gujarat, Dalit low caste hindus are persecuted, HIV-AIDS on the rise, the country of slums and heap of garbage INDIA needs to be destroyed by PAKISTAN. Lets declare war on the epicenter of terrorism :INDIA. We need to liberate the oppressed people of India from terrorist hindus.

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive

the snake pit called pakistan is suffering from a host of Psychiatric,sadistic & Delusional Disorders-
Paranoid Schizophrenia,Dyspareunia,IndianAgorapho bia,
KashmirParaphilias,Hindumania,Americanop hobia…..
they are begging for American Missile Bomb pills & thankfully atlast the Americans are taking pity & obliging them,with booooommmmmmm Islamabad.

Posted by Indian | Report as abusive

Well ,there is no wonder why Pakistani Muslim Terrorists are getting mad.They have done too much killings of innocent people in their cowardice terrorist attcks.But time is over for their cruelty and brutal terror game,They are about to start their journey to hell.Bu don’t worry Bloody Muslim Terrorists we are putting every effort to ensure your smooth transportaion to hell.
Some of these has gone psyche and some might commit suicide before we will kick them to hell.But there is one good NEWS for you BLOODY MUSLIM TERRORISTS.WE GONNA ERASE THE NAME OF HELLBOY (The name for whom you Bloody Muslim Trrorist commit Jihad) from this planet and we’ll make sure you find him in the right place(HELL) with you Coward Muslim Terrorists.
Oh, I forgot,We all know “EVILS (MUSLIM TERRORISTS) HAVE GOT NUKES AND MISSILES”.Thats why we’ll make sure ur departure to hell would be accompnished by your own smuggled nukes and begged missiles.
And about Indian Hindu my boy ,wait until we departure you all to hell then ask your HELLBOY .He would certainly explain why Indians (Hindus)are Great.

Posted by Kumar | Report as abusive

The US is wrong, the US is doomed. Eight years of Bush administration have led to a chaos. Terrorism is such an lame excuse for not addressing the real problems : economic problems, the banking system on the verge of exploding. Who are the terrorists ? Isn’t the American banking system full of white-collar terrorists ? Wars are being waged in Irak, in Afghanistan, and maybe elsewhere in a near future to make you forget what has become of America. And the American people still hopes to be praised for it ! just don’t be blind !

Posted by toto | Report as abusive

you people have got to calm down and talk to your governments more about how to have meetings with different cultures…if you only shout and scream at each other of course there will be rock throwing and then bomb throwing. America does not seek war. the USA has some growing up to do in some areas of the world and how to be a neutral 3rd party to international rivalries but there are certain situations when the usa has to go to war. it is not fair to say the usa is wrong in such cases…review your information and always try to get many sources of info for your views…may god help you all in your quest for peace…good bye. live in peace please. – - cynara

Posted by Cynara Derr | Report as abusive

pakistan is a valid situation where the usa has to go to war, it’s in a desparate need of some bomb throwing- Americans boooommmmm pak boooommmmm.

Posted by Indian | Report as abusive

lol

Posted by Indian | Report as abusive

nice comments

Posted by Aamir | Report as abusive

[...] Having, with much hoopla, launched wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, each disastrous in its own way, the Bush administration in its waning months seems intent on a slo-mo launching of a third war in the border regions of Pakistan. Almost every day now news trickles out of intensified American strikes — by Hellfire-missile armed Predator drones, or even commando raids from helicopters — in the Pakistani tribal areas along the Afghan border; and there is a drumbeat of threats of more to come. All of this, in turn, is reportedly only "phase one" of a three-phase Bush administration plan in which the American military "gloves" would "come off." Think of this as the green-lighting of a new version of that old Vietnam-era tactic of "hot pursuit" across national borders, or think of it simply as the latest war. [...]

Something that I don’t understand is that last I checked borders are a two way road. So why can’t the supposed best military in the world stop the incursions INTO Afghanistan by the Taliban and expect Pakistan to prevent incursions from their side.

The only conclusion that I can reach is that the terrain is highly treachorous and not even the US can stop incursions. Hell they can’t even stop the illegal immigrants coming in with no guns.

Posted by Mr. T | Report as abusive

Bismillah-E-Rehman-E-Rahim, Sab Hindu bhaiyo ko bhi Ram-Ram,

Terrorists O Terrorists,

WHY DONT YOU LEAVE WE MOSLEMS PEACEFULLY WITH HINDUS TOGETHER. IF YOU HAVE PROBLEMS IN KASHMIR. SETTLE IT THERE. DONT COME HERE. YOUR BOMB BLASTS CREATE PANIC AND FEAR IN DELHI MOSLEMS.

HOW LONG HINDUS WILL BE PATIENT ? THEY ARE ALSO HUMANBEING. IF WE KILL A BUFFALO, EVEN HE TRIES TO ESCAPE AND FIGHT. IF HINDUS STARTED FIGHTING ALONGWITH POLICE AND ARMY THEN ?

FOR ALLAH’S SAKE, LEAVE US.

YOU EYE ABOUT HINDUSTAN, WE WILL LIKE TO SAY –

PAKISTAN TUMHARI MA*UT AAY*E..
HINDUSTAN KE DUSHMANO TUMHARI MA*UT AAY*E..
ANTAKWADIYO TUMHARI MA*UT AAY*E..
PYAR, BHAICHARA, SHANTI AUR ALLAH KE DUSHMANO TUMHARI MAU*T AAY*E..

insallah humari fatah aur hindustan ke dushmano ki shikast hogi !!!

Allah hafij

Julfikar Ali on behalf of all Delhi Muslims
Muzlis-E-Islam
New Delhi

JAI SRI RAM aur sab Indian musalman bhai yo ko walikum salam.
Julfikar Ali, very rightly said, hindus and other religions in India needs to be left peacefully.
Bhai jaan,
Hindus and Indains (by large) have long been tollerent but time to show pakistanis that their coward terror acts will not go unpunished.

Posted by Om | Report as abusive

[...] Having, with much hoopla, launched wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, each disastrous in its own way, the Bush administration in its waning months seems intent on a slo-mo launching of a third war in the border regions of Pakistan. Almost every day now news trickles out of intensified American strikes — by Hellfire-missile armed Predator drones, or even commando raids from helicopters — in the Pakistani tribal areas along the Afghan border; and there is a drumbeat of threats of more to come. All of this, in turn, is reportedly only “phase one” of a three-phase Bush administration plan in which the American military “gloves” would “come off.” Think of this as the green-lighting of a new version of that old Vietnam-era tactic of “hot pursuit” across national borders, or think of it simply as the latest war. [...]