Comments on: Pakistan, India and the rise and/or fall of the nation state http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2008/11/10/pakistan-india-and-the-rise-andor-fall-of-the-nation-state/ Perspectives on Pakistan Thu, 01 Oct 2015 19:31:05 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=4.2.5 By: Abhi1980 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2008/11/10/pakistan-india-and-the-rise-andor-fall-of-the-nation-state/comment-page-1/#comment-28945 Fri, 04 Jun 2010 17:25:27 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/?p=756#comment-28945 The success and rise of the regional superpower, India, has defied in all terms the basic cause behind the two nation theory, Pakistan was based upon.

On the contrary, Pakistan has failed to establish itself as the responsible state/nation. Critics are welcome to debate on this point. I am happy, people from both countries have realized it so soon (No matter it has taken 50 years).

The 4 major ethnic groups in Pakistan have struggled to live in harmony and peace; pretty much similar to the sectarian problems in India. Honestly, We are no better in this regard.

But, we Indians continue to stand united in times of need; Unfortunately this need is felt only during crises.

This is something good within us and makes us feel proud. No country as diverse as India (in terms of everything) has this capability. The resilience and ability to bounce back makes us very special today.

Something about our future.
The only impedance in out path to unification is the apprehension (on both sides) about our differences.

Secondly, the dirty power equation between the politicians. Only a strong leadership could overcome these problems, which I don’t see at least at this point in time.

Our gains.
We Indians have many things to gain from the unification as much as Pakistan. Our defense budgets would be no more needed. Pakistani businesses gets an elixir. Our combined population would makes us largest economy in the world. We can safely tap the natural resources (Petro, Natural gas) from Baloch area and Iran’s Balochistan and Sistan province. Our savings shall increase and cause us to rely less on imports.

US and NATO shall be compelled to remove their forces from Afghanistan and Pakistan. This would bring some needed regional stability.

Gains for Pakistan.
Revival, in first place and a new identity.
Trade and businesses between us shall flourish. Less dependency on Chinese and other goods makers.
The people from the west-most areas of Pakistan would no more be scared of the Taliban insurgents.

Baseline. We once again prove ourself as the most secular and democratic country. This would set an example for rest of the world.

Now something about our history.
We (both Pakistanis and Indians) are totally responsible for the bloodshed during the partition. I don’t see any reason for passing on the blame to English rulers. We were divided from day one and outsiders continued to pour into our territory for their interests.

Today, We both are well known for producing terrorists and religious hard-liners. Don’t forget Dawood Ibrahim is a notorious Mumbai-ite.

Our future is ultimate and that is unification, whether we accept it openly or hesitantly.

Pakistan – Land of pure.
Hindustan – Land of pure (Naqsh-e-Rustom).

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By: sreekumar http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2008/11/10/pakistan-india-and-the-rise-andor-fall-of-the-nation-state/comment-page-1/#comment-6777 Thu, 20 Nov 2008 00:53:23 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/?p=756#comment-6777 I have been hearing this from the time i was born.
It is all the British’s fault.

Well, fellow Indians, Get over it. Even if the
queen returns all her jewels and some silly swords etc,
it will not feed the billion indians.

Grains are rotting in food storages and rats and
cockroaches are having a feast. Why can’t we distribute
it to the starving children in the streets – say
through a K-12 education program – food given for free.

Oh! The Indian in you would be waiting for some white
man (say Clinton et al) to show up and show you how to do it, because we have to do every thing only after
someone shows us how. This is exactly what is wrong
with us. Start thinking for ourself and educate and
feed the entire population.

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By: Abhinav http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2008/11/10/pakistan-india-and-the-rise-andor-fall-of-the-nation-state/comment-page-1/#comment-6335 Mon, 17 Nov 2008 02:18:12 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/?p=756#comment-6335 The article seems confusing, still the broad message seems to be that what should be the way forward for the subcontinent post financial crisis?

Ground realities are different in Pakistan when compared to India. While India did away with the feudal landlords and to a large extent redistributed the land to small farmers, it did not happen at all in Pakistan where the feudals thrive and actually are part of the ruling establishment along the army and bureaucrats. Feudals would never allow land distribution and thus would block prosperity for the poor farmers. If the grip of the feudals could be loosened it would not only bring wealth to the poor it would strengthen democracy as well.

In India there are other challenges but things are better compared to a decade back. Economic reforms had been ignored by the present government in order to please their communist allies and there is hadly any time left before the next election which is due any time now. It would largely depend on the next governement on providing the economic stimulus. It could go on a spending spree by channeling the high savings of Indians but inflation and high interest rates are to be balanced as well.

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By: VIJAY http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2008/11/10/pakistan-india-and-the-rise-andor-fall-of-the-nation-state/comment-page-1/#comment-6228 Sat, 15 Nov 2008 07:20:50 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/?p=756#comment-6228 Mohamed Malleck,

The concept of a common market between India, Pakistan according to me will kick only when both the countries have some commonality.Just study the federal Budget of both the countries, you will then get an idea of what priorities are pursued by both the countries.The investment in education is $400MM in Pakistan while India Invests upwards of $5BN dollars.The competativeness of Indian consumption story was led by gradual reforms over the past 20 years where the Government reduced its dependance on indirect taxes & brought it down from 60% of its revenues to 40%, whereas in Pakistan it is the other way around.Corruption is always prevalent in countries where there is a high incidence of Indirect tax collection & reduces econmic activities.If you study the western countries budget you will notice their indirect tax collection is only 20%, foreign trade thrives in such an environment.I am not saying this as an Indian but pragmatic policies pursued by Indian Leaders like Manmohan Singh ,Chidambaram, Vajpayee have contributed in helping our fiscal siuation to improve considerably where they demonstarted a genuine intent to improve the life of common man,today some of our indian state budget revenues matches the federal government budget of Pakistan.The backward states in India also have some common characteristic like lower education,increased lawlessness,poor state leadership,growth in population,fanatics & bigots whipping passions.The only silver lining i saw was democracy is helping one of the state to slowly inch back to progress.

What is important for Pakistan now is to unleash economic reforms where they shift their taxation policy to make it consumption friendly & make massive doses of Investment in Education at the Primary & Secondary School level & eliminate some of the religious bigots who will sabotage pro growth initiative.It is also important to have a democracy where a single party with a strong leadership & pro business mentality has the reigns of Government.Unless these structural changes are brought about it will not appeal to any rational man that trade or a common market can exist on a sustained basis between countries.

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By: Mohamed MALLECK http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2008/11/10/pakistan-india-and-the-rise-andor-fall-of-the-nation-state/comment-page-1/#comment-6066 Fri, 14 Nov 2008 15:38:52 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/?p=756#comment-6066 This opinion piece is so utterly Euro-centric or WASP-centric as to deserve being called nearly-racist. I suugest that the author read Wiiliam Pfaff’s analyses. Hhe is fully attuned to the distinction made by some political scientists between the concepts of ‘nation-state’ and ‘state-nation’, having won many highly-coveted prizes for reporting, notably on the recent Balkan wars and ethnic-cleansing episodes, and has contributed excellent analyses on what Ken Ichi Ohmae views as the trend of the near-term future — the rise of ‘region-states’.

In fact, India and Pakistan, together with Iran and maybe Turkey, still have excellent propects of becoming the most successful ‘region state’ after NAMERICA/NAFTA, despite the attempts by the disavowed Bush administration to drive a wedge between India and Iran, notably on the issue of the Iran-Pakistan-India gas pipeline, to the great chagrin of seasoned geopolitical- affairs commentator and former diplomat, Bhadrakumar.

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By: Pk Woodz http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2008/11/10/pakistan-india-and-the-rise-andor-fall-of-the-nation-state/comment-page-1/#comment-6018 Fri, 14 Nov 2008 11:10:01 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/?p=756#comment-6018 Well if this happens , that would indicate unity , which is a dire need of the day. Unity would wipe out the current crisis which the region is facing right now. But any way whats done is done and there is no turning back. what is now required is to bring back the social harmoney that once used to exist in the entire region. Borders fuelled racism , created hatred , and engaged the people into negativity , which other wise would have advanced the region a million times.

The need of the day is to engage people in travel and tourism and cross culture activities which can revive their centuries old affiliation.

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By: Amit http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2008/11/10/pakistan-india-and-the-rise-andor-fall-of-the-nation-state/comment-page-1/#comment-5971 Fri, 14 Nov 2008 04:35:57 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/?p=756#comment-5971 Vie,

About your comment on the caste system and the Dalits – you will find that the link you posted is from a Christian Evangelical organization called the Dalit Freedom Network. Promoting the oppression of the dalits is part of the evangelical business model as it can be used to collect money from unsuspecting people trying to be good Christians.

On the other hand the fact is that the Indian state acknowledges the mistreatment of untouchables and lower castes and hence runs the largest affirmative action program in the world. Further this program was started in 1950 when the Indian constitution was adopted. This official acknowledgement thus preceded similar attempts in South Africa and USA for disadvantaged groups.

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By: VIJAY http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2008/11/10/pakistan-india-and-the-rise-andor-fall-of-the-nation-state/comment-page-1/#comment-5764 Thu, 13 Nov 2008 02:25:16 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/?p=756#comment-5764 Micro Finance Model looks a viable alternative solution for countries like India & Pakistan. I know of a company which is focussing on Urban Poverty Alleviation. Some of the way they are making a difference to the Indian landscape are provided below.

1. Associate a funding relationship with well known Institutions like Michael Dell Foundation,Chrysallis Capital & have board presence with former Lehamn Executive. This is very important to establish credibility.

2. Hire great talents, they have roped in people from a diverse segments of the society like media journalist,Bankers, Advertising Executives. They have leveraged the internet to get people across the globe like students from Harvard & Other Premier Institutions.

3.Address some niche needs like they go about funding 90% of the females for some of their needs like capital accumulation for their business,meeting their social needs of childrens education,buying some assets for their house or repaying the costly debts for their business. The tenor for these loans average about 1 year & ticket size is around $500.The repayment track record is 97%.

4.The big advantage i see is there are close to 10000 people who have got a direct employment & they have been able to finance more than 300000 customers. Integrating this as a noble cause the employees have been trained by people from Harvard Grads is an excellent feeling for them.The mutual happiness derived far exceeds the benefits of higher paying jobs.The trained employees have also provided valuable inputs to their customers in choosing & using these credits effectively for their long term sustainable earnings.

5.Is this model scalable & you can bring in 100 Million customers to excite someone like Michael Milken or Blackrock, I am sure it can. The czars of Junk bonds can come up with some debt products which makes this scalable opportunity. In a country like India the state owned banks can move aggressively in lending to these Microfinance companies.

6.There are many trickle down benefits in this model since it can propel consumption,it can propel savings, It can propel government revenues , it can propel a better standard of living than what it was yesterday for people who availed this loans.

7.The threat i see to this model is what is your ability to attract the right talent. This works on a low cost model so incentive for people to grow in this industry are weak. Can the Government help this process, Yes they can by giving Income tax breaks to people who work in this industry & also giving additional incentives like land & opening a supply stores like a military canteen where you get products at cheaper price.There would also be some rocky movements when you scale up at a faster clip with bad loans & liquidity impacting the funding for these loans. It is important to provide some budgetary support of cash subsidy to make this sustainable for the longer run.

8.What form of organisation structure should this evolve into, I would think this should be in the private sector where the ownership stakes are distributed amongst customers,employees & some public holding.It stands a greater chance of success this way.

I want to know views of other readers how they would see this working.

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By: VIJAY http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2008/11/10/pakistan-india-and-the-rise-andor-fall-of-the-nation-state/comment-page-1/#comment-5753 Thu, 13 Nov 2008 01:07:20 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/?p=756#comment-5753 Vie,

Every society has many evils.The most liberal country in the world US has still pockets of racism prevalent in most of the “Red States” which are the conservative parts.What you need to appreciate about India is “BJP” which is a party identified with hinduism has not been able to win a majority despite 82% of the population being Hindus. Even if you look at the US elections 95% of the blacks voted for Barack Obama.I think one of the dominant consideration would have been color of the skin.As you fast forward to 20 years ahead i am sure even an AA may not get that percentage of votes.

The point where i am coming from is a Functioning Democracy gradually erases of many ills of the society slowly.For a democracy to thrive secular education in schools & colleges should be inculcated.It is very important that fringe elements in society like sadhu,maulvi,bishops are condemned regularly across the globe, So you can hold elected leaders accountable for governance.Jefferson said to maintain purity of both government & religion it is important to seperate them.

Going back to the subject of this post will Micro Finance be an answer to address a global slowdown.Will globalization collapse in period of economic recession the answer is yes. If you look at periods of peace & prosperity in the world it was during the period 2003 to 2007, this was well reflected in global stock market index which were at its peak. During times of economic turbulence it is very likely across every country opportunist politician will talk of failed policies & whip up passions. The new definition of GDP is GOD,DOGMA & PROTECTION. As long as educated people try to remain above these petty consideration there is hope that we will see some momentum gaining for peace followed by prosperity. One thing surely i would want to see is whether a Islamic country can embrace a secular policy which may be a first step in a new direction called ” Progress”.

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By: hari http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2008/11/10/pakistan-india-and-the-rise-andor-fall-of-the-nation-state/comment-page-1/#comment-5731 Wed, 12 Nov 2008 22:37:28 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/?p=756#comment-5731 Before 1947 partition – there was India Afghanistan and Iran in South Asia.

Solution : Confederation of (former India) India-Pakistan -Bangladesh.

*Single military establishment with non-Indian command.

*Single market with a common currency.

*Union States with local administration and designated power to legislate.

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