Pakistan, piracy and Indian naval power

November 22, 2008

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In what is being seen as one of the biggest projections of Indian naval power since India defeated Pakistan in the 1971 war, an Indian warship has sunk a pirate ship in the Gulf of Aden and the Indian navy is now looking at deploying more warships off Somalia.

In the Asia Times, former Indian diplomat M K Bhadrakumar writes of the possibility of a new Great Game unfolding for control of the sea route in the Indian Ocean.

Pakistan has historical reasons to be sensitive about this new development. It lost control of Bangladesh in 1971, in part because the Indian navy was able to prevent it from shipping supplies and men to what was then East Pakistan.  And it has traditionally been sensitive whenever India has shown signs of flexing its muscles in the broader region — its anxiety about growing Indian influence in Afghanistan being a case in point.

But this time there seems to have been very little reaction in Pakistan, whose navy is also involved in anti-piracy operations in the Gulf of Aden.

India is looking to play a leading role in bringing together countries from the Indian Ocean region to work together to fight piracy, according to this story in the Times of India, working through the so-called Indian Ocean Naval Symposium (IONS). “The IONS includes countries as diverse as Oman, Mozambique, Yemen and Egypt to Australia, Pakistan, Sri Lanka and Myanmar,” the newspaper says. “If some countries can provide warships and aircraft, others can chip in with ports and refuelling facilities in the fight against pirates,” it quotes a senior official as saying.

That to me raises an intriguing question. Would Pakistan, which for so long has seen India as a regional bully, now be willing to accept Indian regional leadership in combating problems such as piracy, from which both countries suffer? And what would that mean for future relations between the two countries?

As underlined in this U.S. intelligence study released this week, the global context has changed drastically since the days when Pakistan sought to maintain military parity with India. The National Intelligence Council analysis “Global Trends 2025″ sees China and India joining the United States atop a multipolar world and competing for influence. (see full pdf document here).

Pakistan gets short shrift, presented primarily as a problem rather than the global player it sought to become when it matched India’s nuclear weapons programme with its own. “The future of Pakistan is a wildcard in considering the trajectory of neighbouring Afghanistan,” it says.  Then in a rather chilling line introduced without further explanation, it says “if Pakistan is unable to hold together until 2025, a broader coalescence of Pashtun tribes is likely to emerge and act together to erase the Durand Line (dividing Pakistan and Afghanistan), maximising Pashtun space at the expense of Punjabis in Pakistan and Tajiks and others in Afghanistan.”

When intelligence experts in your supposed ally raise questions about whether your country can hold together, maybe falling under the regional leadership of your supposed enemy does not look so bad? But then again, and to return to the “Great Game” unfolding in the Indian Ocean, the intelligence report also examines the risk of a naval arms race unfolding between India and China as both seek to protect vital energy supplies.

Choosing your friends in a multipolar world is going to become increasingly tricky. For Pakistan, it may turn out to be a matter of survival. Which way is it going to turn? Pakistan’s reaction to India’s role in combatting piracy in the Indian Ocean may provide important clues.

(Reuters photo:  Turkish frigate escorts ship carrying aid to Somalia/Ho New

55 comments

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It is most liklley the authors wishful thinking (desire in their hearts) that Pakistan will not hold togather till 2025. Sadly and irritatinly this argument has been made by ill-wishers of PK since its very birth 61 yrs ago. As far as choosing friends, they have to look into their hearts.

I think the question should be “Would India, which for so long has seen Pakistan as a rising super power from scratches, now be willing to accept Pakistan’s international leadership in combating problems such as piracy,terrorism, etc from which many countries suffer?

Posted by Sherdil malik | Report as abusive

Pakistan leads in only one field : IT, i.e. international terrorism. India has no desire to challenge Pak in that field.

Posted by Prem Preetam | Report as abusive

What Mr Sherdil Malik refers to as a rising super power is a rotten country which has been ruled by military rulers for decades.. it has never been a proper country but a battle ground for mullahs and generals who made billions at the expense of common man by getting commissions from large scale arms dealers.. Ho you can refer it as a superpower.. abhi from training8m australia

Pakistan.. A superpower? You are definitely joking. You need to understand that it is now becoming another Afghanistan in the making.

India is definitely trying to be the leader in terms of anti piracy activities. It has only taken an initiative, which no other navy has.

And as far as Pakistan is considered, it has more asking worries inside, than in the Gulf of Aden. A comparison between the two countries’ ambitions would be a joke. US presence in Afghanistan is one of the few reasons why the country is not in more shambles, than it already is.

Posted by Biswadeep Rath | Report as abusive

Yes Mr. Sherdil, I agree with you….it IS wishful thinking – not the experts statement, but your comments. I wish well though, for Pakistan – hope it survives as a good nation.

Posted by Sher Dimag :) | Report as abusive

This comment is in reply to the previous.
My dear friend. We Indians(educated middle class representing appox. 30%) want a strong Pakistan. A weak Pakistan is of no good. It won’t have the backbone to accept any formula for Kashmir resolution, it won’t be able to manage the deteriorating low and order in Pakistan and pose a significant security threat to entire world. Make no mistake, Pakistan, with all its problems, is still one of the most powerful Islamic Nation. As per aggression is concerned, India has better and bigger things to achieve than tinkering with a country 20% of our size.
Friend , we are trying to grow. You play your part in growth of Pakistan. And for Allah’s sake, don’t get cynical.

Posted by Sayoke | Report as abusive

Internationally, Pakistan is recognized as a potential failing state. With its foreign currency reserves in tatters, its unenviable position as the worlds millitant haven, and its lack lustre economy and zero contribution to the world economy puts it squarely opposite to a free, democratic, economic and military rising power India.

With its myriads of problems, Pakistan is circling down the drain, and instead of acting as a thorn in everyone’s side, it should either acknowledge India’s immensely superior position as a global leader and a bastion of freedom and stability in South Asia or join hands with it by junking its outdated and immature “bash india feel good” policy that its been following for decades.

Indians do NOT compete with PAkistan anymore. India’s competing with Winner economies of China and south east asia. Its a certain global leader and it would be in Pakistans best interest to follow in its footsteps or collapse under its own staggering weight

Posted by Aztec | Report as abusive

Pakistan need not look outside itself to find answers to doubts being raised about its survival. Pakistan has to look inside – analyze the reason for its birth, understand the great stuggle for freedom which threw up the seeds of its creation. Is competition the only reason for nationhood. Do we always need to treat neighbours as rivals? Do we need to understand the true tenets of islam ? Why not be partners in growth with your neighbours…

Posted by Rajesh | Report as abusive

Myra MacDonald rightly said.

Its the high time for Pakistan to open its traditionally closed eyes. Rather than becoming a failed state its would be better for her to accept India’s leadership & power.

Mr. Sherdil Malik, come out of darkness

Posted by Shubhayu Datta | Report as abusive

India needs to provide leadership in the Indian Ocean region as it\’s the dominant power there.

Pak has its own internal demons to deal with and unless they figure their internal strife, there is no way they can become a player externally.
The US 2025 report makes it a distinct possibility of its western borders being redrawn.

India should do all it can to support a stable Pak else the troubles will slowly creep into its own borders.

Posted by Andy Rebeiro | Report as abusive

Lol…Mr. Malik it seems you live in a fairy tale Pakistan. Pakistan a Super power…hahahaha

Kindly see the definition of a nation to be a super power. Till now only the U.S. satisfies all the criterion.

As for being a regional power, well Pakistan has always lived under the shadow of its mother nation (us, India).

Pakistan is on the verge of going bankrupt and has recently accepted IMF aid of 17 or so billion dollars. As for your China and North Korea supported nuclear program, there is nothing to say. A Q Khan showed us enough.

And if you follow international politics and news then you would know, that the authors are actually giving a very realistic and bleak view of the year 2025. It is time India stepped in and managed the situation.

How long will Pakistan try to catch up with India in a race it can hardly win?

Please Mr. Malik, I urge you to discard YOUR wishful thinking rather than tell that to the authors.

Posted by Susmit Kumar | Report as abusive

As an Indian citizen, I believe the greatest threat to India will be an unstable Pakistan. On the other hand, a stable Pakistan with prospering economy will be not only help its own cause but also create a better environment for trade and peace in the subcontinent. I think India should do all it can to help its neighbor and Pakistan should give up the deep distrust of India it has and look to India to pick itself up. I believe a stable South Asia would be the greatest economic force in the next 50 years. However the operative word is “Stable”.

Posted by DC | Report as abusive

Highly amusing,that some of the indians writing on this column have not considered the fact, that until 3-4 years ago PAKISTAN had a way superior economy to india,which was stereotyped as being only home to poor people. For all its troubles & decline,our great nation STILL has a GDP per capita of $2500,as compared with india $2700. PAKISTAN has always had superior economic conditions & standard of living,until its recent problems.

Anyways,my message to indians is that YES,we want peace with you but the problem is that india supports subversive activities in Balochistan,FATA & Karachi. India has armed groups like the BLA & Baitullah Mehsud recently,and was a centre of MQM training for decades.Yes,Pakistan has a role but we should not be expected to be the ONLY country to stop subversive activities.

India has to learn to behave as well…

nothing is amusing my dear friend. Subversive activities may be but then its a quid pro quo. And yes I am willing to believe that pakistan had reasonably good economy but better than india at no point seriously. just imagine pakistan is not able to kickstart its economy with having lands of punjab huge minerals and natural gas resources, proximity (both physically and politically) to oil producing nations in the world. What else do you need for an economy. The real reason is pakistan always had politicians and leaders who harped at religion and rift between india as a winning strategy in their home ground and this has caused such a resourceful nation to underperform. India hasn’t done well either and had its share of corrupt politicians. The point is will the pakistani awam ever wake up to have an objective relation ship with its neighbor and rise above religious sentiments for their own good. Its time that rather than telling india to learn both nation should learn and keeping the existing realities work towards a better future ….. The amount of military spending that is done in pakistan to be in the race of india is phenomenal and can be used easily for the development of the nation. This will in turn reduce the burden for india too as the relation grows warm. The pakistan is already waking up to the reality and gearing towards growth. It becomes evident from the one news item I came acros today which says akistan will not attack india first with a nuclear weapon. India has long back taken this stance. This small understandings will go a long way in ensuring the progress of the region. Let me assure you if anybody thinks that they can take anyother nation for a toss they are making a gross mistake. So pakisan too as a responsible nation should not neglect the existing realities.

Posted by ravi kumar | Report as abusive

Some 8 years ago, in 2000 I was talking to some French guys. They were comparing India and Pakistan. My only reaction was:
“West/Britons have created barking dogs in the form of Pakistan, because they knew that was the only absolute way to hamper India’s progress growth. And the day Indian leaders start looking beyond this barking dog would be the beginning of Indian ERA.”
I am still not sure that day has come or not, but I am still hopeful and remain hopeful.

Posted by pk | Report as abusive

Indians beat Pakistani’s in, 1 Having more colonial cheap available slave labour for Western Corporations.

2. Making cheap Hollywood Knock off’s and having idiots dance around trees and call it bollywood.

3. Produce Route Learned western colonial monkeys to be trained at any repetitive brainless task there Western masters desire.

4. Desperately seeking respect from there anglo Masters by selling out there culture religion and identity to mindlessly imitate there western masters.

5. India leads in starving undernourished children and recently defeated Ethiopia. While Pakistan, has big Beautiful Punjabi’s who may be illiterate who are still strong and healthy.

India is a disgrace, you make your funds off accepting a colonial coolie statues, and doing cheap indentured servent work, for your white western masters.

Posted by Adnan | Report as abusive

Adnan,

The US government had given Pakistan close to $10BN in 2001 to 2008.US has realised they have created a frankenstein monster that their money has not earned goodwill but illwill from people of Pakistan.Branding Pakistan as a failed state is a gross understatement.It is a failed state.Pakistan was a country which was created out of hate & can never be capable of having friendship with any country.Talking about your punjabi beauties, they resemble elephants you like to look at them but don’t want to own one.

While you are glossing over the fact of nuke weapons, countries are advancing to think of technologies to neutralize radiation effect & also to put a missile shield. Just saying a British professor who said intelligence is innate & unchangeable, i am sure he was referring to Pakis.

For your kind information the uprising in Baluchistan is not a indian making but a punjabi culture perpetuated by your Finance Commission of Pakistan.You need to study how your federal taxes are allocated to provincial government you will then get an idea of Mistrust.

Not saying anything great about India atleast there is institutional government which is well functioning, India did not have the support overtly or covertly of any western countries, yes the only country which stood by this great nation was Russia & that special regard for that wonderful nation is respected by every indian not like the gratitude you show to people in the US who have pumped more than $50BN in their history

Through out your history you bit the hand which extended you the friendship, after vajpayee walked to lahore nawaz invaded kargill, you need to read the history of blair house of how a paki primeminister was humilated coz of your army.Be grateful for people of India after the parliament attack it was US who brokered the peace else we would have marched to your doors.

India had great Primeministers who always thought of country first before religion,in our brief interruption when devagowda was the primeminister it is chronicled that he advised the cabinet secretary not to allow anyone including his relatives & sons to interfere in the progress of India.Get your mind cleaned about radical islam & india hating it will do you lot of good.

Posted by Vijay | Report as abusive

I believe Pakistan may have a dim future ahead of it, primarily because of its own misadventures with internal and international terrorism, and educating its rural population with potently hateful and ill islamic madraasa teachings.

But it is necessary for India that Pakistan exists, however thinner than it currently is, to ensure that the tribal warfare does not spread its tentacles into Indian territories. In many ways, Pakistan gives India a softer border, and a cushioning that avoids expenditure of too much time and resources on western defense sectors.

All in all, the greedy Punjabi government of Pakistan is at least a rational agent from the economic perspective!

Posted by nifty mouse catcher | Report as abusive

If you have a cancer in any part of the body , what will you do?
Kill/Remove the cancer of course or treat it with toxic medicines.
Thats what we did and will do to the cancer called Pakistan.
To hear some Pakis calling India names is like listening to a bad son calling his mother names.
Keep dreaming Pakis and keep calling us Indians names.
Reality will not change,we have stopped competing with you long ago , you guys dont want to accept that you are a failed country of sore losers, who export your cricketers and your film stars here and secretly drool over our heroines and our wealth.We will take every section of the society in our country forward including Muslims but to expect something like that in your country would be ridiculous.
A country born out of hatred will die also of hatred.
Waiting for that to happen.
Love
from a Hindusthani

Posted by Hindusthan | Report as abusive

Well if Pakistan merge with India then Hindu will disappear, because muslims domination create another Islamic Empire. Yesterday days muslims madrassa terrorist etc etc would become your master again ????…..what you will do when they will treat the cancer in their way?????lolzz

Posted by HAIDER | Report as abusive

The Sea of Pakistan belongs to Pakistan, the nation which it is named after, Pakistan should follows Russia’s lead and plant its flag on the seabed. Not only that it should follow the logically course and invite the Chinese Peoples Liberation Navy to be stationed at Gwadar.

With the addition of the PLA-Navy in the side of Pakistan, India would be swiftly defeated bt the two states in the manner in which India was defeated by Pakistan in 1948, 1965, 1998/1999 and 2002, and the manner in which China defeated India in the Sino Indian war of 1962. Just likes Indias numerous previous defeats at the hands of China and Pakistan, The nuclear card now only raises the stakes for the revanchist Indians.

The question is one of India’s survival: Should India risk another defeat at the hands of a joint China/Pakistan naval armada?

Posted by Dr Idris Shah Ebrahimi | Report as abusive

Adnan , Haider

You just reminded of what the character Sheldon Cooper , in “The big bang theory ” quotes :- “I am listening , amuse me “. Thats all i can reply to you so called comments.
So for the serious part, We do not hate you . We have realised that this obsession with our neighbour is pointless & will keep us grounded in the well. Hence we have decided to move on . We now wanna compete with the West , China . NOw as far your comparison between our GDP & per capita income. I heard that many times over. Figures may be misleading, so try understanding the broader picture. With high tech industry [IT , Aerospace, Automobile, Chip design ] playing greater role in our economy there is simply no way you can justify your comments. LIsten to views of all western leaders about the future if their respective economies & of the world in general . They all talk about the emergence of India , China as a challenge . I can go on & on talking that , but then you are not worth the effort. So again take this as a brotherly advice : No one in INdia cares about “competing” with you , & i beleive you should have the same attitude. Build your own country without trying to hate others. It will only help you !!!!!!!!

Posted by Mihir | Report as abusive

Children squabble, grown-up’s work and progress. And there lies the answer. But really, there is no meaningful large-scale comparison between the two countries. Never was. They were each founded on antithetical principles: one exclusively for a people, the other inclusive of all its peoples and faiths. Pretty obvious which one would progress once it got its act together. Long way to go for both, but each should understand its respective niche and not get too ahead of itself. Indians love premature self-hype, Pakistanis appear to wail about perceived grievances everywhere. Like I said, grow up. But hey, some posters here do appear to live in some sort of dream world!

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/23/world/ asia/23pstan.html?hp=&pagewanted=all

Posted by HJ | Report as abusive

Lot of false information floating around. Indian intelligence doesn’t have capabilities like ISI which was bred and tutored by CIA during Soviet Afgan era. So India helping BLA or FATA or Mehsud is big lie.

If at all those are helped they are helped then it must be USA which wants to keep Pakistan under control.

Well India has money now, and their poverty ratio is better ..and soon it will be a booming economy so it is good for lot of people and Pakistan will soon follow the India’s path else it is doomed.

Friendship with india is must for pakistan and pakistani’s are not from Arab breed but they are Indian breed only …they are not real muslims .. like saudis

Virginia , USA

Posted by Gus | Report as abusive

HJ,

I do agree many of the posts exaggerate the superiority of each nation.Though as an Indian sometimes i am appalled at our own stupidity. Where i see hope for my great country is, there is a deliberate attempt to invest in quality education. We were not fortunate to be endowed with good neighbours & also the grass root politics where corruption thrived. The ascendancy of India from its deep slumber is owed to the pragmatism of our Prime Ministers where God has been really liberal in showering his grace.The other factor for our improvement has been its own people who invest to learn & get informed.

It is naive to beleive that there will be any love for a country which deliberately invests its time,energy,resources to see the bleeding of India through its unabashed support for terrorists.It is foolish to think a nation led by morons can ever articulate a right domestic or international agenda.It is greatness of India that a country 8 times the size of pakistan still has shown extreme restraint despite many provocations.Imagining that if we had been their size & they of our size sends me cold shiver they would have swallowed,ravaged.plundered us. It may not be the people of pakistan whom we question, but their leaders who represent them.Their impotency is palpable in all their promises to international community.

International relations are about perceptions & beleiving otherwise is foolishness.while most society are emerging from dark period of their civilization where religion got distorted & its spirit buthchered. we find islam ruled by a few ugly despots who have given the excuse for other religion to harden themselves.It would be dishonesty both to your intelligence & judgement to live in this false notion that the threat from ahimsa can be greater than the threat from swords talking of religious practices.The danger lying to this planet is radicalization of islam which one day will obliterate this planet & such an act will be fermented, planned executed from the heartland of Pakistan.

Posted by Vijay | Report as abusive

Sherdil ka malik aur Gadhe ka dimaag….

Posted by Indian | Report as abusive

Dr Idris Shah Ebrahim,

Where did this Dr. get his info from? Madrassas??? Or some hakim!

I think this is a good example of why the “Educated” screw around the “un-educated” folks in Pakistan! And instead of moving forward. They drag them back 50 yrs.

But “Dogs Bark, but the Caravan(India) moves On”!

Posted by Jai Hind | Report as abusive

soon pakistan and afghanistan will merge together as a loose coalition of warring tribes.They do not control land 100 kms from the capital!SWAT valley the militants burnt down 100+ girls schools!

Posted by shantanu chatterjee | Report as abusive

Dr Idris Shah Ebrahim,
If in pakistan they have Dr. like you god helps who are just simple graduate.
“India was defeated by Pakistan in 1948, 1965, 1998/1999 and 2002 ”
!! do schools in pakistan teach history ??
well am sucha fool you will first need schools to teach then think of learning history.
This is what happens when people learn history by mullas in mosques.
Not only pakistan accepted humiliating defeat in all 4 wars with India but hey Do
you know about the 5th Indian war with pakistan ?? which was about to wipe out
Pakistan permanently when your ISI terrorists attacked Indian parliament in new delhi ??
It was your chicken Musharaff who begged India not to start war but pleaded to resolve
issue diplomatically.If pakistan were anytime stong enough to confront atleast a
fraction of Indian forces why would your almighty ISI and military equipped with
all 2nd hand guns fight a proxy war by creating and sending terrorist to other
countries ?? pakistan never had gutts to fight like men.

People like Dr Idris Shah Ebrahim,show the true pakistani mindset.Where a doctor is such a assshhole.

Posted by replytopakis | Report as abusive

Lmao.Indians keep on dreaming.Pakistan has screwed india in 47 when muslims snatched big chunk of Hindustani land in the name of Pakistan an then later on B.Desh.Then in 48 PAKISTAN SNATCHED MORE THAN HALF OF kashmir.Then during Kargil war Paistan again snatched Kargil peaks which Indians took back by begging USA.In 1965 Pakistan defeated enemy 20 times bigger in power.Keep on dreaming.If time comes when Pakistans sovereignity is under threat we will make 80 piece of india as India has got atleast 80 seperatist movements inside it.

keep dreaming gandians you cant come close let alone touch pakistani waters the best you can hope to do is play with dirt poor somalians you both are alike after all when gwadar was being built the hindustanis were crying tears and made a pool or should i say a sea of urine just one little port made indians weep lol pathetic

Posted by Bilal Kashmiri | Report as abusive

Bilal Kashmiri ,

You are right nobody wants to touch Pakistan.Which explains why Baluchistan wants to be freed from your clutches, Which explained why Bangladesh freed itself from you. We have a few Mullahs in our country who want to touch pakistan you can make an exception for them, they will be proud to drink the “holy Water” in gwadar.

Posted by Vijay | Report as abusive

the cancer which is spreading across the south asian region namely hindus and india have corrupted the people of the sane earth with there eternal hatred and jelousy of pakistan they cannot take the fact that hindus got there back sides handed to them in 1947 and thats why there grandparents sit them down in a mandir and teach them traditions such as hatred against another to hindustani dog pakistan war born from passion and courage you only see it as hate because your hindu nation didnt form a vedic slave power out of the muslims in south asia muslims in india are poor and hungry opressed by hindus like the above one a country born out of myths and hindu scriptures will burn and be erased like a old passage from the hindu gita love from Pakistanis

Posted by Bilal | Report as abusive

well from reading all the comments made by our hindustani brothers it seems they admire hitler very much well some hindu idols do bare a resemblance to that horrid creature dream on Gandians your gands will still be on fire even if you get your way and destroy pakistan but then again your gandians for that exact reason :)

Posted by Bilal | Report as abusive

Billal,

Yes there is poverty in India while rubies & diamonds are used to decorate in pakistan or what ?. You are right like fire & water cannot stay together so too are India & Pakistan. We hate you only because you produce militants who like cowards hide their face & throw their bombs.Talking of poverty don’t you feel ashamed of collecting grants worth billions of dollars from Asia to Middle east to US.Don’t you feel ashamed of using bombs against baluchistan who are also south asian muslims.Did you not rejoice murdering 3 Million bangladeshi who were also south asian muslims.

Posted by vijay | Report as abusive

In the grander scheme of things, Pakistan is of little significance to Indian goals. The country is simply too small. The idea of military parity between the two countries has largely existed only in Pakistani imagination since the humiliation of 1971.

Even the West has recognized that and largely treats Pakistan as a problem and a battleground. Every week we hear something about another American plane or drone bombing villages in Pakistani territory and killing Pakistanis. And what is Pakistan’s reaction? Some muted comment that this will not be allowed to continue anymore. And then it happens again next week and the Pakistani government says the same thing.

How can Pakistan have any dignity and go on like this? The country worships a military that has yet to win a military victory and even managed to get the country cut in two. It falls deeper into Islamic fanaticism in an era when Western powers are determined to exterminate it. It’s economy is horribly weak having had only a few years of solid growth recently, largely thanks to billions in U.S. grants which are now diminishing or coming with more strings attached.

Lately there has been a pattern emerging. India is only interested in buying time and allow its economy to grow. It knows that in the long run, the disparity between the two countries will only grow wider thanks to India’s enormous population and free market reforms. The peace talks, the CBMs, the talk by Obama about finding a solution to Kashmir – it’s all a sham. India just wants to wait and wait and grow into a multi-trillion dollar economy (which it’s well on its way to doing having a 1.2 trillion dollar economy already compared to Pakistan’s $160 billion).

Pakistan is a country that seriously needs to examine itself. It needs to solve its internal problems. Spending so much time and resources trying to annex territory controlled by a country 7 times bigger than itself is foolish. Things will only get worse as the economic and military gap grows.

Posted by FRK | Report as abusive

Let’s face it, Britain did not want to see a large, powerful India in 1947 so helped create an artificial, nuisance state Pakistan to keep India bogged down and then for decades China and USA kept this artificial Islamic state alive to prevent rise of India as a superpower.
Reality is there is no comparison between a $1 trillion dollar plus,and growing,superpower of 21st century India (which is also 8 times larger than Pakistan) and Pakistan, a failed, bankrupt state which is just a headache for the world.
In a few years time, when Pakistan breaks up,Lahore, Sindh and Northern territories will revert back to India and remaining areas of present Pakistan will either become Independent countries or become part of Afghanistan.

Posted by Deepak | Report as abusive

The west is paying for its own misdeeds, It gave billions of dollars to pakistan & never allowed that country to develop on its own. Having a democracy was also tough for them to negotiate with a independant pakistan, so the military served its purpose. Now they find bogged in a war which has no ends in afghanistan & got a taste of how this money will be used on them.In the whole process people of pakistan continue to suffer caught in the midst of politics,military,foreign intervention & their extremist.As people remain uneducated extremism will breed from afghanistan & pakistan & innocent people who got nothing to do with this politics will keep dying.

Posted by vijay | Report as abusive

Pakistan is a great nation and there is no need to get carried away Indian Navy playing with poor somali fishermen. Pakistan Navy with its Agosta subs, nuclear capable ballistic missiles, superb Intelligence and an Air force equipped with modern fighter aircrafts and best pilots in the world are capable of posing a serious challenge to India. Onus is on India to remain on friendly terms with Pakistan. Because next Indo-Pak war can easily go nuclear resulting in major destruction.

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive

To my Indian friends i.e Vijay, Deepak and FRK
Since last six decades Indian politicians, media and intelligentsia seems to be acting part of an age long campaign to demonize Pakistan, a failed state plagued with terrorism and at the verge of a collapse. At the same time, theses elements are quick to remind how India in all these years has risen as the world’s largest secular democracy, where people of all castes, religions, color and creed co exist in harmony. Of course it all sounds very remarkable. But if truth is to be told, this impression of Incredible India couldn’t be more erroneous. Let me quote William Dalrymple’s a respected British historian renowned for his expertise in Sub Continent history. His latest book. , The Last Mughal: The Fall of a Dynasty, Delhi 1857, has been awarded the Duff Cooper prize for history. On 14 Aug 2007, he writes in GUARDIAN, under the heading “The ‘poor’ neighbour” (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2007/au g/14/pakistan.india1)

William Dalrymple, notes, “In the world’s media, never has the contrast between the two countries appeared so stark: one is widely perceived as the next great superpower; the other written off as a failed state” ….He further adds, “On the ground, of course, the reality is different and first-time visitors to Pakistan are almost always surprised by the country’s visible prosperity. There is far less poverty on show in Pakistan than in India, fewer beggars, and much less desperation. In many ways the infrastructure of Pakistan is much more advanced: there are better roads and airports, and more reliable electricity. Middle-class Pakistani houses are often bigger and better appointed than their equivalents in India. Moreover, the Pakistani economy is undergoing a construction and consumer boom similar to India’s, with growth rates of 7%, and what is currently the fastest-rising stock market in Asia”.

I agree that all is not good in Pakistan. There are lot of issues. You ppl are also having issues. Although, the nature of problems of the both countries is different. We need to accept it and try best to build our respective countries to the best of our abilities.

So, Khalid mian,
William Darlymple is an authority?
He, like many so called experts, has not studies India well.
Nobody says India is perfect. We are talking of the potential.
It is estimated that Pakistan, even with the begging bowl, will grow by 2.5% or so in 2009 while India is likely to show a GDP growth of 7-8%.
For the huge mass of humanity, this may not immediately mean much but things are changing slowly.There is a lot more money to spend even by average indians. I was amazed to see the confidence in the middle class indians when i visited India from US recently. There is a lot of hope that future will bring better things.
OTOH, Pakistanis i am told (by your own journalists)live with little hope for the future. Much of this is to do with the way that country was governed.
Pakistan never was a free nation, always ruled (directly or indirectly) by military dictators. Result is: there are no institutions in Pak worth the name. Add to that the terrorism, a nuclear state at the brink of economic disaster, u get the picture of a nation waiting to explode.
Sridhar
(USA)

Posted by sridhar | Report as abusive

Comments made by most Pakisatanis are very amusing :D
When will Pakis find another reason to live for except “defeating Hindu India” ? Do ordinary Indians care about Pakisatan as these Paki posters do? No. They don’t. So why so much obsession with India ?
India has its functioning secular democracy, trillion dollar economy, IT, automotive, space, medicine, tourist, media,outsourcing industries. What has Pakisatan to show in comparison? Gunships attacking people who claim to fight for Islam in a country which was founded on basis of Islam? 45 years of military rule? Running with a begging bowl all over the world?
Grow up Pakis.

Sorry if you guys find Paki word insulting. Many people (foreigners) use this word as an abusive term in UK, US etc.But I don’t think it should be like that

comments made by gandoos from india are very funny :) there obsession with muslim pakistan is getting annoying now when will they learn no matter how many terrorists you fund in pakistan and now matter how many afghans you pay to attack pakistan pakistan will never break so keep your bollywood scripts tucked under a statue of krishna and keep praying for that day to come may i suggest you feed your population with food and not propaganda now so atleast your status as a superpower in poverty can be reduced to great power in poverty :)

Posted by Bilal Kashmiri | Report as abusive

Talking about begging bowl the world has always shown indian children on the cover of oxfam without there parents are indian men and women that obscured with there anti pakistani life mission that they forget to feed there kids oxfam save the children are all flat out feeding the billion plus tramps of india so grow up gandians (means ass in punjabi) and feed your kids not your military budget

Posted by Bilal Kashmiri | Report as abusive

talking about the indian navy they can keep there toy boys in somalia lol keep shooting thai fisherman boats and claiming them to be pirates ha ha read the news you indian cowards

Posted by Bilal Kashmiri | Report as abusive

Dear Sridhar

Thanks for replying and raising certain questions.

You questioned the authoritativeness of William Darlymple. Then you are doubting his credibility by saying him as one the many so called experts, having not studied India. Lets discuss this first.

1. William Darlymple has following award winning books related to India (Reference: http://www.williamdalrymple.uk.com/Pages  /Biog.html):

a. In 1989 Dalrymple moved to Delhi where he lived for six years researching his second book, “City of Djinns”, which won the 1994 Thomas Cook Travel Book Award.

b. A collection of his writings about India, “The Age of Kali”, won the French Prix D’Astrolabe in 2005.

c. “White Mughals” was published in 2003, the book won the Wolfson Prize for History 2003, the Scottish Book of the Year Prize, and was shortlisted for the PEN History Award, the Kiryama Prize and the James Tait Black Memorial Prize.

d. In 2007, “The Last Moghal” won the prestigous Duff Cooper Prize for History and Biography. In November 2007, William received an Honourary Doctorate of Letters, Honoris Causa, from the University of Lucknow University “for his outstanding contribution in literature and history”, and in March 2008 won the James Todd Memorial Prize from the Maharana of Udaipur.

2. International news channel BBC World telecast a six-part series, Indian Journeys, in 2002. The series embarks on an exploratory journey across the spiritual heartland of India with renowned author “William Dalrymple” as he delves deep into the Indian spiritual psyche and explores what lies at its core. An inspiring kaleidoscope of Indian images, religions and regions, Indian Journeys won the Grierson Award for Best Documentary Series at the British Academy of Film and Television Arts (BAFTA) in 2002. (Reference: http://www.indiantelevision.com/headline s/y2k2/aug/aug107.htm)

3. In an interview when he was asked, “ What made you choose Delhi partly as ‘home’? His reply was “Because I have always liked it here; it is matter of personal choice and as writer one can really live anywhere. And one is aware that one of the ironies of globalization being that most good Indian writers in English have chosen not to live in India”. (Reference http://www.cerebration.org/dalrymple.htm l)
Now, don’t accept what I say about him and just ask urself about the expertness of a historian who lived in India for many years, considers Delhi as partly home, wrote 4 award wining India related books and produced 6 episodes Indian documentary.

I didn’t give u my observation as u have given about India

I didn’t give u the observations of Indian journalists as u have given me about Pakistani journalists.
Ur both observations may have more authority than “William Dalrymple” for u but not for me or any other person having some academic background.
Instead I gave u the reference of a person

who is not Pakistani or Indian,

who is historian (who works on research methodology) and not a journalist (who writes any thing just to fill the columns of paper to earn his livelihood),
who is not a anchor person at TV channel, who daily come with something to just cover the time to get their channel running.

Who has more affection towards India.

If a person of such a high credibility is not acceptable to u then please do let me know that which type of authority would u like?

One of the remark which ur country men give is that Indians have stopped looking towards Pakistan and their aims are much higher. I don’t have any problem with that. Every nation has the right to rise. But my question is that if u look much higher then plz stop comparing Pakistan with India because when u ppl do so u are unintentionally giving importance to us.
You say that “Nobody says India is perfect”. I request u get a third person read comments of ur fellow countrymen and ask him. I am quite hopeful that he has got the impression that India has progressed towards excellence.

In my last comments I agreed about the problems of Pakistan. I didn’t deny but my request to u guys is this that plz stop portraying exaggerated picture of India which commenced right from BJP’s media projection campaigns of “India Shining” and “Incredible India”. I don’t have doubt that India has progressed swiftly but I invite u to do ur own research about Pakistan and don’t be carried away with the ideas of ur so called journalists and TV current affairs anchors. Hopefully this way u will refrain from giving misleading comments.

Dear Indian friends

What happened? I have not heard from u since long. Have u gone quite after the news that INS Tabbar has infact sunk a Thai fishing trawler considering it as a mother ship? Looking for comments on the professionalism of Indian ship.

Dear All,

I think Pakistan has its own set of problems which need more immediate attention rather than focussing on trivial issues at the global level.

To the world, Pakistan is perceived as a country full of terrorists and fidayeens. To an extent, this is not incorrect as most of the terrorist and fidayeen attacks worldwide seem to have a Pakisatan connection and the fact cannot be ignored that Pakistan is a breeding ground for such elements. So, I think that Pak should invest more time and resources in resolving these issues and weeding out such elements from its soil and not shift its focus to resolve Somalian piracy which other countries can easily take care of.

Posted by Maulik | Report as abusive

My indian friends, stop cheering and grow up as size is never gonna be the distinguishing factor or proving one’s superiority. Had this been the case, the lion would have naver occupied the throne in the presence of a bulky elephant. Just think it over!!

Shayan

Posted by Shayan | Report as abusive

Bilal Mian,

I think you need to get educated! OOPS you have to beg for that! Your ignorance is your bliss! But I guess, You must have atleast 3rd grade education, to be able to write on this blog. Obviously, you cannot spell. So we the readers forgive you.
Your stats (oops statistics – for Bilal’s eyes only) and your knowledge are skewed. I cannot blame you too, your are product of your environment i.e. All I am reading is”Gandians your gands ” etc. Thats seems to be your only focus, I guess because your behind is so sore? By your sole inablity to learn and educate yourself!

Your Ghost!

PS: some words may be too complicated get them explained from Musharaf!

http://worldblog.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2 008/02/15/669690.aspx

Posted by Bilal's ghost | Report as abusive

today pakistan is facing a lot of problem,mainly terrorism.who is behind these terrorists activity.i will say that”"expandind india,US in afghanistan,ties between india and afghanistan Gov ,,,, and then talking about Pakistan as a failed stat, all is clear that(India and US) they are involved.Remember the fire in my house will go to my neighbour.this fire will burn all the south asia ,AND IF WE ARE BURNING AND ALL HELP IN BURNING WE WILL BURN THE WHOLE WORLD. India must understand that we are a islamic nuclear power.Pakistan is strong enough to fight the whole world.PAKISTAN ZINDA BAD

Posted by dr ishfaq | Report as abusive

I think India should just go ahead and takeover Pakistan and carry out the unification India once and for all.

Hi to all dear Indians, Pakistanis and other world Citizen,

There are 2 ways to grow in life:
1. Cut your opponent down…relatively you will be bigger…but then how many individuals, states, countries can we pull down….
2..THE BETTER WAY…is to grow ourselves bigger than anyone else and then help others to grow….need to believe in kindness humanity and world welfare…

After reading the thoughts on this website, I feel sorry for the forefothers of Undivided India….they fought not for Hindus or muslims, they fought for humanity…

friends, please don’t bring disgrace to them by getting in to a futile arguement…It wont help….Lets focus of world / humanity’s welfare

Cheers,
World Citizen

Posted by World Citizen | Report as abusive

you guys out to blame each other on the political diversity or talking about navy might either the talibans,fidyaeens and the corrupt politicians in pakistan throughout the same nook or corner the suffering is only paid by common persons.Same is the scenario in the viscinity for the indians the dead root politicians, Laskhre toiba singing the swan song of Kashmir on the name of prophet and killing innocent which prophet will receive to the hell of killing innocent live either it is the bomb blast in Mariot hotel in Karachi and the killing of the people in Taj. By using nuke and the byproducts of western people to destroy the calmness of this subcontinent and by merely mudslinging no one will be benefited .My dear counterparts either pakistani or indian create the world as harmonious as europe so that the western will sing the song of our expertise either it is the natural beauty of swat valley in pak and the flourishing tea garden in darjelling .Let peace prevail that is Gita and Quran??else everything lies on you

Posted by Arun | Report as abusive