India and Pakistan: remember Kaluchak?

December 18, 2008

History never repeats itself exactly, but it does leave signposts. So with India and Pakistan settling into a familiar pattern of accusation and counter-claim following the Mumbai attacks, it’s worth remembering what happened after the December 2001 assault on India’s parliament brought the two countries to the brink of war. Or more to the point — thinking about the less remembered follow-up attack on an Indian army camp in Kaluchak in Jammu and Kashmir in May 2002 that nearly propelled India over the edge.

Following the attack on parliament that India blamed on the Laskhar-e-Taiba and Jaish-e-Mohammed, both Pakistan-based militant groups, India mobilised its troops all along the border, prompting a similar mobilisation on the Pakistani side. Then Pakistan President Pervez Musharraf went on national television in January to promise to crack down on Islamist groups; the activities of Lashkar-e-Taiba and Jaish-e-Mohammed were curbed, and tensions abated somewhat.

These tensions exploded again in May when gunmen launched a “fedayeen” attack on a camp for army families in Kaluchak, killing 34 people.  (For an Indian version of the Kaluchak attack written at the time, this piece by B. Raman is worth reading.) The Kaluchak attack so outraged India, and particularly the Indian Army, that it came perilously close to war with Pakistan.  The crisis was averted after intensive American diplomacy. 

So where does that leave us now in the current uneasy no-war, no-peace environment? Or in other words, is there a risk of another attack, another Kaluchak? 

If, as some analysts believe, the objective of the Mumbai attacks was to trigger a new military stand-off between India and Pakistan to draw Pakistani troops away from the border with Afghanistan and reduce pressure on al Qaeda and the Taliban, then they failed.  Does that mean more gunmen will be assigned to launch a new attack and complete the task? Or will the governments of India and Pakistan, remembering what happened last time around, find a way to insulate themselves from such a risk?

Three weeks after the Mumbai attacks, the signs are not looking promising. Pakistan’s new civilian government, which in the immediate aftermath of the attacks, was ready to send the head of its powerful spy agency, the Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI), to India to cooperate in the investigation, has been retreating steadily from that position ever since. President Asif Ali Zardari told the BBC this week that there was still no evidence to support Indian claims that the attacks originated in training camps in Pakistan. 

Pakistan has cracked down on the Lashkar-e-Taiba (LeT) and outlawed the Jamaat-ud-Dawa, a charity linked to the LeT. But India remains sceptical about how effective this will be. (Pakistan journalist Syed Saleem Shahzad has an interesting take on the history of the LeT in the Asia Times, in which he says the group might be banned but not bowed.) In the meantime, Pakistan has backed away from earlier reports that the head of Jaish-e-Mohammed, Maulana Masood Azhar, had been detained, with  Foreign Minister Shah Mehmood Qureshi now saying that Pakistan does not know where he is.

Pakistan in turn has accused Indian jets of violating its airspace and summoned a senior Indian diplomat in Islamabad to protest. India has denied the accusations of airspace violations, which depending on which side of the border you sit on, could either be seen as a deliberate attempt by India to put pressure on Pakistan, or an attempt by Pakistan to paint itself as the victim of Indian aggression.

So what happens now? India has said it does not want to go to war over the Mumbai attacks, but nor does it want to pursue a peace process that would make the Congress-led government look weak ahead of a national election due by May next year. That potentially leaves the region sitting on a tinderbox for months. And very vulnerable to any fresh attempt to stir trouble between India and Pakistan.

(Reuters photo: Pakistan Rangers close the gate on a crossing point at the Line of Control in Kashmir after it was opened briefly for trade/Amit Gupta)

Comments

Pakistan is back to playing its deceitful games with terrorist groups. They arrest a guy then deny he is even in the country. Just days ago, Pakistani media reported that terrorist Masood Azhar addressed a big rally in in his home base of Model Town, Bahawalpur and that the entire town was “decorated” with Jaish-e-Mohammed flags and banners.

Now they claim to not know where Azhar is. Just hours after their foreign minister confirmed he is in police custody.

UN ban or not, Pakistan seems to be determined to protect its jihadist proxies.

I wish Pakistan would some day consider exporting something other than terrorism.

Posted by Rajat | Report as abusive
 

By this time India and rest of the NON-ISLAMIC world acknowledges that the Zardari and co are another failed set of powerless jokers in the failed ISLAMIC country full of terrorists. Another follow-up attack by pakistani terrorists on India or US or their interests else where.. promises to change the map of pakistan and will see drastic reduction in muslim and terrorists population in south asia.

Posted by Om | Report as abusive
 

Pakistan’s actions were never credible. As the heat moves away from Pakistan, and the world starts loosing memory of Mumbai, their statements would gradually turn to defiance.

Walla! Pakistan has just raised the bar on how much India can tolerate.

Is the world is ready for this ultimate terrorist: armed with nukes, bogus government, tyrannical army with an ever burning fuel supplied by radical Islamists?

Posted by Raj | Report as abusive
 

Just let them do one more 911 on India. If the Paks or the Jihadis dare try one more attack on India. All gloves will come off and Pakistan will be just a little blink of a very dark part of human History and will cease to exist in any capacity.

Pakistan’s government, and even its people are a double talking and lying type of people, especially Pakistani expatriates living in other countries. Not all Pakistani’s are bad people, there are many that are good, but on the whole, it is had to find any that don’t quietly sympathize with the terrorists and those who quietly want Sharia law, but publicaly say that want democracy.

Pakistan’s days of double talk are coming to an end soon. The World has had enough. The day of reckoning will come for Pakistan in the near future. Pakistan’s people have to decide if they do in fact want a country. Because the world will allow it only to exist if it abandons its Terrorist, Jihadist, Madrassa, hateful to India ways.

It is a moral duty of the world to ask Pakistan to mend its ways. If Pakistan will not mend its ways, ie, JUD leaders have been released…in the wake of the Mumbai Attacks and the Mumbai planners going free, this is a free ticket for any takers who want to school Pakistan on being a responsible nation.

If Pakistan is going to choose the path of lying and double talking, even with Zardari there, Pakistan has lost any sort of credibility to claim that it is a country. In this situation, it should be made to cease existing by the UN and dismantled with a 5 million troop presence on the ground.

The world and especially India, its very productive and globally loved neighbour, will never be safe, with Pakistan in its current structure, form and state.

Posted by Kaffir Blogger | Report as abusive
 

Pakistan is held together by Islamist ideology and Army. Both have been negative and have taken Pakistan down the road of chaos, deceit and Jihadi. I think Pakistan should be dismantled along ethnic lines. This will give the people a sense of identity as a Punjabi or Sindhi other than arab sponsored Islamist ideology. Democracy works only in civil societies that value wealth and progress. Afghanistan and Pakistan are not civil societies. USA is chasing democracy like a kid chasing the fantasy fairy.

Posted by Chris Smith | Report as abusive
 

It is quite apparent and clear already now that Pakistan has already passed the point of no return to a civilized and generally structured society. Pakistan is now staring into the abyss and its people and gov’t are quite un aware of it.

The time has come to quit trying to revive a stinking and septic rotting corpse. Pakistan is a lost cause. The next course of action should be to de-nuclearize Pakistan, by force, if necessary, using any means possible, even a massive multinational aerial assault using bunker busting methods to destroy all their nuclear arsenal.

If the world fails to do so, the very existence of the civilized and western world is at stake and those stakes are very high.

Posted by Disarm Pakistan | Report as abusive
 

Can I try to bring the conversation back on track by saying that Pakistan is a country of more than 160 million people, most of whom are trying to live their lives like everyone else? And that people in Pakistan have also been killed in a string of bomb attacks.

Also for the Indians commenting on this post, what would you prefer? That Pakistan ceases to exist, as suggested in one comment, leaving India without a buffer between itself and Afghanistan?

I’ve realised reading these comments that mentioning Kaluchak has stirred up many emotions, perhaps too much so.

Maybe I should phrase my question differently in that case. Is there a serious risk of another attack on India? And are people worried about it?

Myra

Posted by Myra MacDonald | Report as abusive
 

On the 2nd thoughts… there may not be a follow-up attack in the immediate future..as the mumbai attack was backed by pakistan ISI..In the first place pakistan resorted to cold blooded terrorist activities because the pak army and ISI very well know they cannot win, they dont dare it as they know the consequenses of war with India. ISI must have planned the mumbai attack using LeT and deliberately left the trial back to JeT to make it look like a attack coz of kashmir issue.
Even if there is a follow-up attack there are no chances of full fledged war if congress is still in power in India..congress may at the most opt for covert operations depending on the intensity of the follow-up strike.

Posted by Om | Report as abusive
 

Myra
Indians have never accepted Pakistan as a country from the depth of their hearts. We Pakistanis on our part will use every weapon to wipe India out of the world map. Pakistan is a strong and powerful nation. There will be thousands of attacks on India. Lets see if Indian cowards have the courage to stand up to Pakistan’s challenge.
PAKI POWER CRUSH INDIA!!!

Posted by Uamir | Report as abusive
 

Indians are behaving like mad dogs after Mumbai attacks. Remember Indian leaders were talking to teach Pakistan a lesson after India conducted nuclear tests. Same leaders ducked their tales between their legs and went into hiding after Pakistan struck back with its own nuclear tests matching Indian capability, infact exceeding it in technological terms.
In other words, if any mad dogs barks and jumps to bite me, I will simply shoot him. If ever India attacks Pakistan, even a remote skirmish on the border, any naval misadventure or an airspace violation. Pakistan must fire all guns blazing. Nuclear strike and shoot the mad (Indian) dogs right at spot, f*cking them straight to hell.

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive
 

Myra — Thank you for reminding us one more failure incidence of indian intelligence and seurity forces – idiots oh sorry indians says thier country is super power — i wonder how come – if they can’t stop assault on thier country then how can they survive war on pakistan. Yes they are super liar and super in off-loading thier faults and failure on Dawood Ibrahim – who is infact an indian, Pakistan – which was created only because of hindus inhuman behaviour with muslims (have you never heared of genocide of muslims while migrating to pakistan), and Al-Qaida and Kashmiri militants — I wonder if indians could give any single true evidence to support thier lies.

Posted by Peace | Report as abusive
 

indian lies can be evidence from the fact that in all the initial photos of the person arrested and accused of being one of the terrorist in mumbai attack was wearing orange/red thread band on his right wrist (which is the symbol of hinduism, however, now those photos are digitally modified to remove that band —- what do you say about it.

Posted by Peace | Report as abusive
 

Myra,
I would say that we have to look at the facts about the neighboring countries also.
Lets say in past China and India went on war, there by no Wary atmosphere.
In recent past Pakistan initiated 3 wars on India and was unsuccessful thereby the Terrorists are backing now as a Proxy war.
Everyone wants to live in peace and harmony, however you cannot keep a Terrorist in your home and say they dont harm you.
This event and pressure mounting on Pakistan is an eye opener to eradicate an average of Terrorism.
Also I suspect Indians are playing a safe game here, escalating a war on Pakistan will help Pakistan to pull out their Troops from US Support on Afghan Border by saying that they want to protect their nation, which favors Afghan Militants to enter Pakistan as a safe hole. Therefore Indians are mostly favoring US and allied forces by not provocating War on Pakistan at this juncture. Moreover they must be busy with their economics just like US and EU.

Posted by Sam | Report as abusive
 

Myra

To your questions:

—-Is there a serious risk of another attack on India?

YES. The people who plotted the Mumbai attacks, whether they were in the Pakistani military establishment or outside it, wanted to provoke India into war. Thus they wanted an excuse for Pakistan to move its troops away from fighting its own proxies, the Taliban, and into a more traditional anti-India posture. A war with India would also unite Pakistanis in favor of the army, which had its image tarnished under Musharraf’s rule. This was evident by the glee on the face of ex-Pakistani Generals commenting after Mumbai about the prospect of an Indian “attack”

Given that India did not fall into the trap, they will likely launch another terrorist outrage to provoke India. However vigilant Indian authorities are, there is always a possibility that terrorists, especially those that don’t mind dying, can succeed at their deed.

——–And are people worried about it?

Yes. It is not just the Indians. Even Condi Rice and Gordon Brown kept talking about preventing follow on attacks.

I’m guessing that this is why Pakistan took into custody the terror masterminds like Lakhvi and Masood Azhar (before denying the latter). Note that Pakistan has not said that it will prosecute these guys. They have an interest in preventing another attack given that US, UK and the world community will hold Pakistan responsible if a Kaluchak like follow on attack happens.

This is why it is critical for Pakistan to shut down LeT/JuD for good. Same goes for other jihadi organizations.

Why

Posted by Rajat | Report as abusive
 

Myra McDonald is confused in her comment. Since last 60 years of creation of pakistan, it has only caused bloodshed in the name of Islam. Just because they attack India, no one cares. There are 160 million people in pakistan and in sixty years the attitude of government or their people has not changed. How can terrorism exist in pakistan if people are good. Secondly if there was no 9/11 in states and no attack in London, they would have never woke up to India’s problem.If USA would have never paid pakis, that would have been better for the world. Pakistan is the centre of Islamic world and its ideology is to kill non islamic people no matter what economic condition they themselves have to go through. You are talking about 160 Million people, of those, millions run on the road against non islamic countries. They hate you and me as much, just that you live far from their hatred and do not feel the burn, your emotions and decisions differs. I wish pakistan was close to EU and USA. Then as an Indian I would have felt less heat and might be talking like you.

Posted by Manoj | Report as abusive
 

Pakistan will contine to attack India.Covert operation by India is morally & ethically wrong, only animals do these things.Pakistan 160 million people unfortunately have never supported peace with India.In this dirty manipulation of their domestic policies Indians are getting slaughtered everyday.The only option is to go nuclear with Pakistan & keeping away china.It will be unfortunate 400 Million people will get killed in the subcontinent including me who will be the first,it is still worth a sacrifice for 6 billion people to live safely every day & another billion to live safely in the subcontinent.Once pakistan is eliminated the world needs to come out with a package of $100 billion which means giving away close to $5000 dollars apiece to afghanistan citizens,this should be overseen monitored by someone from britian they are the only people in this world who still have world morality,to convert them to a different religion like christianity & abandoning drug trafficking.

Peace & prosperity will then return to this planet. The land of pakistan should then be given to westerners,chinese,bangladeshi,indian muslims in a 70% to 30% ratio.In that land you will then see one of the magnificient civilization of the world errected built like hongkong or singapore far superior in morality, intellect, peace,scientific achievment which becomes land of honey milk & happiness.This country should be headed by a british general.

The other alternative to save a nuclear holacaust is to see there is a referrrendum by the people of Pakistan whether they can ask if they will trust the british more than their politician/army & allow them to rule their country on lease for 50 years & cleanse them of their backwardness.The secret vote of referrendum will then reveal what really the people of pakistan want. The secret ballot will then be eye opener when the choice is given about A) Islam B)Osama C) Army D) Zardari e) British F) Arab Sheikhs.90% will vote overwhelmingly in favour of british & bluff of islamic world will be called once & for all.

For this to happen gordon brown should talk to China, Russia, USA & get this implemented.People will still trust british leadership compared to stupid americans,chinese,russians,french or arab sheikhs.

Posted by Vijay | Report as abusive
 

To the person who said “Just let them do one more 911 on India”

This was not India’s 911 , it was indian’s Oklahoma, self inflicted as a result of india state terrorism of murdering Ethnic minorities in India.

If India wants a war, let it be…. it should shut up and stop sniffing the USA/UK backside and riding on the tail of the neocons war of terror

Posted by Rabbani | Report as abusive
 

Dear Pakistanis

As long as someone says it is Islamic, do you do anything u r told to? Commit any crime? As long as your mullah says a country which has won against u four times is cowardly, do you accept it? One thing I know, Islam wants the truth. So why do u accept lies from your army or your mullahs? Don’t u know more courage is required to create peace than when cowardly generals send young children to kill themselves by telling them they r going to heaven? Everyone in India said these children look just like ours, where did they go so wrong, who taught them this rubbish, who led them to such violence? Do u really beleive God will love a Muslim person who has committed all manner of wickedness? How long will u be fooled by wicked interpretations of religion?

Do u not know that many mosques in India AND Pakistan stand on ground which held Hindu temples? Indians have let them be, for the most part. Doesn’t Islam forbid the building of a mosque on the grounds of another faith?

Also r u prepared for an influx of 160 mill Muslims from India? Especially those who know the real history of Partition, have lived with Hindus as friends and business partners, and most important know democracy? How long will u hate them for preferring India, year after year?

We are v happy to leave u alone but maybe u still want to be the west’s pawns and attack after attack as directed by them? Partition was created by Britain to bring war to u and us decade after decade.

If war is what u want, u will get it. U will lose but the imp point is not that: it is simply u may not be around to realize that religion and politics was not really what life was about. It was about living, about being human and humane.

 

Dear Pakistanis

Re any red thread on a wrist. Islamic warfare routinely dresses its soldiers in the other sides’ uniforms. The Kandahar hijacker called himself ‘Shankar’. Kashmiri women often have said the rapists were circumcised like Muslims even though they were dressed in Indian army clothes and their names did not correspond to what was written on their uniforms! So take a little care before believing any side.

Also go over the history lessons you are given in school. Do they make sense that the Muslims in pre-partition India (now Pakistan) were so good all the time to escaping Hindu/Sikh refugees? If so have you seen the same good behavior continue towards others in Pakistan? In your Islamic leaders? In your mosques? Doubtful!

Good people do good things, bad people do bad things but it takes religion to make good people do terrible things.
And hence u see a child like Kasab sent in by cowardly adults doing what they feel like want under the guise of religion/patriotism.

Posted by Bharati | Report as abusive
 

To Mr. Umair and Rabbani and like minded people, I would just like to remind them of the all past wars between India and Pakistan. Pakistan has been defeated badly. 1971 war surrender was THE BIGGEST militry surrender in the WORLD!

What has changed since then. Well, Pakistand has nuclear bomb now! And looking at the insanity called Pakistand, it is very feasible that they use it too against India. Let’s picture this! Pakistand nukes India and India looses around 100,000 people, a big city and a lot of wealth!! What next? India too has nukes!! Pakistan will simply be wiped out forever!! As an Indian, I am willing tp pay the price for Pakistand to get wiped off!! In the long run we will save a lot and become a real super power once we do not have insane neighbour!

To Myra’s questons – Yes there is a possibility of another Mumbai like attack from Pakistand as they have still not learnt anything from it! They are playing games with terrorists on one hand and TRYING to befool US and UN! (I am sure US and UN are not stupid and they understand it well).
Who is farid of such attack – US, UN and Govt of Pakistan! ISI, Military and people in Pakistan are stupid enough not to understand the coincidence of such attack and/or they have no choice but to conitnue the dirty game they started immediately after Pakistan’s birth!

Posted by MK Mishra | Report as abusive
 

People talk about how the muslims, 140 million out of a population of 1 billion are the poorest in India. Do you mean to tell me that all the rest of the Hindus are rich here and its only the muslims who are poor? No people of all religions are poor and hungary in india, poverty is not religion driven. Media and some of the so called prominent people should stop harping about how the muslims are ill-treated in India, because the fact is that its not only muslims but any person who is poor is ill-treated. So the so called celebraties should stop making provoking statements and not make any and every incident religion driven.

Posted by Kusum | Report as abusive
 

While Zardari is still asking for proof..Nawaz sharif has openly accepted the kasab is from pakistans punjab..he has also questioned why pakistani security agency has been deployed in faridkot and why aren’t the media reporters allowed to speak to the kasabs family members there..
Pakistan is full of liers and impotent leaders..Mr.10% is just media savy with out brains. If pakistan continues to deterirate with out able leadership..very soon the country will go to dogs..mad dogs to be precise..

Posted by Om | Report as abusive
 

Pakistan is in a deep fix, within its own coutry there is doublespeak to its people to believe in what their leaders are talking and taking back what they say within a week to the world. The Taliban are a creation of this very policy to support terror around the world 9/11 or 26/11 ,which will very soon destroy its creator,history has shown from medieval times that such destruction reverses a state to such a black hole that generations have to pass to see some sort of a ray of hope.India would have to be very alert and be ready to take over with its might whenever action is required because unfortunately we are in its neighborhood and are an target of mindless terrorists.

No proof is required when doublespeak is the only way, these leaders are resorting to react to the worseing situation they are in.

Posted by Sri | Report as abusive
 

Myra,
Of course Pakistan is a country of 160 million and a majority of them no doubt are peaceful people battling everyday concerns.
No. Indians would not want prefer that Pakistan ceases to exist. And the reason is not that it would mean that there is no buffer between India and Afghanistan but that why would be wish such a thing for Pakistan.
No we are not worried about another attack. We are just worried about one thing, that the Pakistani establishment would be under pressure from the jihadis and the ISI and the culprits of Mumbai will not be punished. That all measures they take would be just for creating a balance. In that case does India have any options? Or in the long run is covert operations by state-backed but so-called ‘non-state’ actors is the way that India should also adopt.

Posted by akant | Report as abusive
 

@ all Paks:

Dear Paks, please quit living in fear of the Indian “Boogey Man”. India does not want to take over or destroy Pakistan. We don’t preach political or hateful ideologies in our Hindu Mandirs (Temples). Since I was a kid, I never heard any hatred directed at any person place or thing, inside a Hindu Temple. We are a peaceful loving people..please quit listening to your ISI, Armies, Madrassas, IMAM’s or those Jihadists. Indian philosophy does not consist of any hatred toward non-hindus or muslims. We never talk of taking over or hindu-izing the world. We do talk about being closer to God and doing good things for all people.

Don’t believe what you have been told of Hindus in Pakistan. Hindus will take you into their home, feed you, give you a place to sleep and treat you with good respect. This is the India, that Pakistan does not want its citizens to see.

Do you all remember the Radio ban in Pakistan? They did not want you to listen to Indian broadcasts?….The Pak military, ISI, Jihadists, and IMAMS can only survive with the hate they build in your hearts against India.

They have made pathalogical hatred of India a reason for National Unity. India does not use hatred as a National Unity Tool. Please modernize and secularize like Turkey, or Morroco, or even Egypt.

Hindus do not hate deep inside. Hate takes too much energy.

Posted by Hindu | Report as abusive
 

I must say that idiots are the best story teller in the world – Bharti nice stories, from where do you get these ideas.

Posted by Peace | Report as abusive
 

You house rule states: “We try not to publish comments that we think are offensive”. I think if someone is propagating nuclear war, it is very offensive.
Here’s a quote “The only option is to go nuclear with Pakistan & keeping away china.It will be unfortunate 400 Million people will get killed in the subcontinent including me who will be the first”. This guy has no right to talk for the 400 million innocent people, for whom he has no qualms in getting killed, whether they are Pakistanis or Indians.
His is clearly boiling with hatred for Pakistan and rambles on and on, with totally irrelevant comments.

Posted by Nasir | Report as abusive
 

Peace and Umair Thanks for your valuable inputs on us(Indians).. guys please donot tell me who is stronger and who is not coz that (nuke war) is not a solution to the problem we all have here.

Pakistan too faces the same issue of terrorism as India does. It is this bloody politicians and the Media of both countries who follow the same rule used by people who divided us. All they care about is money and let the command man leave and get himself f***ed.

They know people here are going to forget things and they are going to enjoy the power which we aurselves have bestowed upon them.

This all does not make all pakistanis or Indian Bad. Not sure if you would believe me, but I have quite a few frind who are indeed Pakistanis and they are as friendly as We indians are. I truely enjoyed there company and hope they too did so.

So lets stop figthing and get together to fight against the command enemy “The Terroist” .They really do not have any religion coz if you believe in almighty then you would not kill anyone.

Posted by Indian | Report as abusive
 

Nasir,

Do you mean to say you keep slaughtering us for your dirty politics every day & it is a great thing if indians are getting murdered in cold blood,is the indian blood so cheap that it can be spilt at will any day any time at your choosing?.While i do not represent pakistani people i surely represent sensible patriotic indians who started thinking like this,since we know peace cannot be bargained by diplomatic channels & your act is to destroy us economically by picking all targets which represents our progress like IISC,Parliament,Mumbai & who knows what will come next.After all these acts of murder the master mind of these deeds remain to enjoy their life as martyrs & saints.Everybody is civilized & want to wage a crusade where we remove backwardness,but then every act by the enemy country is propagated using the threat of nuke weapon to carry these murderous deeds on us assuming no action will be taken.

The threat & enforcing a big punishment of civilization existence to me alone will bring order to the insane idealogy ,while i may not desire such an outcome but let us be clear in next 2 years such a thing will eventually take place & the reponsibility is with Pakistan alone.No country can progress economically if it cannot have a safeguard for its citizen,toleration & patience is a function of equal reciprocity,these acts were carried out deliberately by people in power at responsible places in the enemy country with a view to hijack the incremental progress our country is making.

Let us be clear how can Guns,Rocket grenades,RDX Bombs all reflecting to a organised form of terror be landing in a democratic enemy country.I think this incident is a direct act to destabilize India & the magnitude reflects us to act not to watch.While the consequences are dastardly & will sink our country by a few years but we will emerge victorious.Are you trying to challenge me that as a Indian i should wait for LET to hoist its national flag on the redfort & get our civilization buthchered by pakistani.If that is an out come you desire,i prefer death & devastation.I swear to you that the crimes you commit in name of religion by chopping hands, legs, hanging, stoning people,assaulting women all are aimed of a battle between liberty & freedom versus a will imposed by medieval text book.What better form of crude display you want when people in your country is unmoved even after seeing defenceless people getting murdered in the most barbaric fashion.Language of civility, decorum, respect is for people who reciprocate equally & show their genuinity & sincerity not for those who inflict a kargill when a primeminister of our country goes to meet you in peace.How many more people you want to murder,kill & destroy in name of your religion.There are many poor countries also in latin america, west indies why are these acts of terror only from muslim countries.Why do you commit all these crimes in Phillipines,Thailand,India where we are the most peace loving people.Whereever islam has gone it has only brought death,destruction,unhappiness, cruelty & torture.All these organised terror is from pakistan & everyone in this planet will be safe & will thank india for the extreme sacrifice we will make for the continuity of the human race by punishing you.

Posted by vijay | Report as abusive
 

India is paying and will pay the price of its attrocities and occupation in Kashmir, the killing of innocents for decads, the rape of women and abduction of thousands that are in indian jails without any fair trials for years.. with India poking its nose in Afghanistan and helping the puppet regime installed by a military invasion there, its difficult to forsee a time of calm in India. Its Karma at work!!!!

The solution, Indian military should withdraw from Kashmir, allow the people to decide their own fate, let go all thousands in jails, free, and compensate for those thousands who have been killed, raped and their lives destroyed… withdraw its 4000 troops from Afghanistan and start respecting the soverignity of all its neighbours, including Pakistan… anything short of it, and i suspect the common poor Indians paying the price of their government’s crimes… and its most unfortunte!!!!

Posted by David | Report as abusive
 

Peace and the endless talk about it are a wonderful thing. However there is an old American saying..”It takes two to Tango”. With India and Pakistan there is only one doing the tango and the other is lying about it. The new pakistani regime is a little better than the old one but if they are incapable of reigning in their
own out of control members within their own borders than they should, and must, be judged as either with the terrorists or as totally ineffective to deal with them.
Either way leads to the same endgame. A winning strategy for the current Pak Gov’t would be to let the coalition forces on their northern borders (us and our allies move immediatley into Pak territory and begin to control those areas they themselves cannot control in the north. The Indian forces can move immediately into the southern areas and control those areas the Paks cannot and this will free the true lovers of democracy within pakistan proper to deal with those elements within the remainder of Pakistan herself. This would force the ISI and rouge army elements and terrorists within the entire area to now fight a simultaneous 3 front war. This they are incapable of doing and would ultimately lose. If this inflames the remainder of the moslem world, to bad, it seems that such a drastic measure must be done. Remember most Germans in pre WW2 Germany were good decent God fearing people who stood by and did nothing while evil grew within their midst as it is seeming to do in Pakistan today. They did nothing to stop Hitler and thus were of no consequence to stop their eventual demise. The same for the average Pakistani now. The world has a chance to help Pakistan throw off the yoke of those sabatoging her from within. Lets act now while the chances of success are good.

Posted by Jon Brooks | Report as abusive
 

Hi Peace and others

These \’ideas\’ are from reading about Islamic warfare and talking to those who have suffered. No one from Pakistan mentions Kashmiri Hindus, Sikhs, Buddhists. India looks after its Muslims as much as it looks after its Hindus with its many issues and ltd resources.

Do Pakistanis simply not care about people but only about their religion? Will our skeletons ask each other: R u Muslim? ru Sikh? Will God care that u were Muslim even if u kill people in his name? Were the Prophet\’s(PB)ancestors Muslim?

Surely Pakistanis know their ancestors were mostly Hindu. Mostly forcibly converted. Indians want to see Pak peaceful and prosperous and that you leave us alone. We felt you were just like us but these attacks have told us how differently you have been educated in the last 50 yrs. Surely u cannot accept anything as Islamic just because a Mullah says so? Can a General tell u to kill and the act is Islamic? Go on, u know better. God has never lived in any mosque/temple but in u and me. U know that. Don\’t let some creep tell u otherwise and teach u lies and hatred. The responsibility is yours, not some Mullah\’s or General\’s. Or your govt\’s.

Churchill must be laughing: Never thought Partition would be so successful for us, never thought just by saying Kill Hindus, Pakistan would respond so much.

Well, answer your God when the time comes.

Posted by bharati | Report as abusive
 

turn off the waters of the Indus and all its tributaries,
stop Indian visas for all Pakis
Stop all contact with the anti India nation

Throw away the no first nuclear strike doctrine, announce that such a strike is a real possibility, after all a government does not exist in Pakistan, every one is a non state actor, the pak army, the terrorsits, Zaradari, taliban.

Posted by Amrinder | Report as abusive
 

This report was from Zee TV:

Malegaon blasts: Another Colonel in ATS net, Purohit ‘confesses’ role

Zeenews Bureau

Mumbai, Nov 07: Even as Lt Colonel Srikant Purohit ‘confessed’ to his role in the Malegaon blasts, a Colonel posted in Deolali and a Major came under ATS scanner for interrogation in connection with the probe into the blasts.
A Lt. Colonel in Madhya Pradesh was reportedly picked up for questioning but there was no official word on it. More arrests are not ruled out.

Lt Colonel Srikant Purohit, who was recently arrested by the Maharashtra Anti-Terrorism Squad (ATS) for questioning in the Malegaon blast case has reportedly confessed his role in the revenge attack.

According to reports, Purohit told the ATS officials that he prepared the blue print of the conspiracy and provided ammunitions for the September 29 ‘revenge’ attack in Malegaon, which claimed the lives of at least six people.

The 37-year-old officer has confessed to providing the logistics and explosives to a radical Hindu outfit ‘Abhinav Bharat’, who carried out the blast.

Lt Col Srikant Purohit was arrested by the Maharashtra ATS on Nov 5 in connection with the September 29 Malegaon blast.

The Army officer, who came under the scanner for his alleged role in the blasts, was stationed at the Army Education Corps Training College and Centre at Pachmarhi in Madhya Pradesh.

It is reported that the ATS officials are now planning to question another serving officer in connection with the case and sought permission from the Army in this regard.

Posted by PEACE | Report as abusive
 

Pakistan was born out of India. Pakistan will never have peace if it dosn’t respect its Mother. The corrupt man called president of pakiland is protecting the same terrorist that killed his wife. India is peace loving country and it dosn’t need to go to war and waste its men and machine. Pakistan is a Failed state it will be destroyed by the same terrorist it supports.

Posted by Peter | Report as abusive
 

Dear friends,

Do you know what is the root cause of the conflict between india and pakistan?

I think you dont know. Let me the pleasure of doing so.

At the time of seperation indian occupied a vast area of kashmir into their custody and start killing the people who protest against them. Due to this reason some of the kashmiris start migration towards pakistan but migration not removes the hate which is caused in their minds for india. Now these Kashmirirs and also Pakistanis are looking to take revenge and they are on track because when you hit someone you will also get the same reply sooner or later it will occur. (every action there is an equal and opposite reaction).

So to bring peace in the reigon its necessary to solve the kashmir dispute if you want peace than you have to give freedom to Kashmirirs we as Pakistanis are not saying hand over Kashmir to us just give them freedom, they can make their own country where they can live in peace.

hope you understand what I am trying to say, and further Pakistan wants peace in its own soil if we know where the terrorists are hidden we will caught them ourself because they are also threat to our countries peace but India thinks we hide them what we will got to hide them we have bomb attacks every day 100′s of people die every day than why we support the terrrorists tell me honestly.

Nows its indian who have to think positively about the peace ful Asia, yes peace can come to us but we have to make certain changes in our minds.

Hope you will understand one day.

Muhammad Saqib

 

Although the crap being dished out by many ignorant indian isn’t worth commenting I,however would like to say some bitter realities with hope Ms. Myra Macdonalds will be generous enough to let this be displayed. Indians are cordially advised to stop shedding corodile tears and not resort to fooling the world around. the world in this time of hitech is well informed and with their all the senses intact, are in a better position to demarcate between what is right and what’s not. you can’t distort the history by your false outbursts. the international community hasn’t forgotten yet the role you played breaking pakistan apart in 1971. Can India justify its setting up of a series of its consulates in afghanisatn borderging pakistan. We the pakistanis and international community want to know the the very reasons for all these unnecessary consulates. they are indulged in mischievous acts of sponsoring and facilitatin terror groups in Baluchistan and Fata in order to destabilise Pakistan. Whatever happened in Mumbai is home borne issue and external linkage is nothing but India’s failed attempt to cover its security lapses. We pakistanis are proud of our great ISI. ISI has a proven track record of coming up to mark in face of challenges. On the other hand RAW, true to its title, could prove its worth only in Bollywood Shahkars. We advise war mongering Indians to get to senses and live and let live with peace. and don’t try to follow the footsteps of thier lords in the west. Our political difference may be there, but we stand united in case our national honour and integrity is at stake. Our PPLZ AND our armed forces are capabale and well equiped to respond to any coward act of misadventuris. Live LONG PAKISTAN, ARMED FORCES AND OUR PROUD ISI.

Posted by Shayan | Report as abusive
 

Officially Pakistan is an Islamic Republic… and a failed state. It has failed because most of its armed services are islamic funadmentalist whose only desire is to meet the virgins meeting awaiting them in heaven. They also have a mindset of not wanting to progress and want to stop anyone else who is trying to progress. I feel if they did not have those Chinese take out nuclear bombs, Pakistan might as well be contend to live in middle ages as they cannot understand “Live and Let Live”

Posted by Jerry | Report as abusive
 

what sort of progress? jerry! to you a man who believes strongly in the golden teachings of any religion is unprogressive. and for pplz to be progessive they should follow the immoral and shameless social standard your western societies have adopted. why not a woman clad in a burqa or scarf covering his honour keep pace with the modern world. Is it necessary for her to wear bikini or dance naked in bars (usually the case with western societies) in order to be called a progressive person. By progress if you mean nakedness then sorry guy we aren’t the sort of. we are proud of our modest and morally correct standards and we are still on the path of modernity. You westerns needn’t bother rather you had better try to put your own house in order.

Posted by Shayan | Report as abusive
 

WOW!!!
— Thank you for reminding us one more failure incidence of indian intelligence and seurity forces – idiots oh sorry indians says thier country is super power — i wonder how come – if they can’t stop assault on thier country then how can they survive war on pakistan. Yes they are super liar and super in off-loading thier faults and failure on Dawood Ibrahim – who is infact an indian, Pakistan – which was created only because of hindus inhuman behaviour with muslims (have you never heared of genocide of muslims while migrating to pakistan), and Al-Qaida and Kashmiri militants — I wonder if indians could give any single true evidence to support thier lies.

Posted by Peace | Report as abusive
 

Pakistan is a failed state.It was created for the muslims to live by islam but it the last 60 years it has failed. The country has tried everything from dictatorship to secular capitalism and they have all failed the people of pakistan. Now its time for change, a new leadership.A leadership based on ISLAM and not the western Puppets.Pakistan needs to look after its own interest.It needs to become less dependent on other nations.It needs to stop fighting america’s war on terror.It needs to close the supply route from the karachi ports to afganistan. It needs to stop supplying fuel to the nato forces. It needs to develop and encourage industralisation so it becomes less dependent on the agricultural sector. It needs to reduce imports and try and increase exports. it needs to support local industries. The companies that are being privatised are taking the wealth out of the country. Oil gas electricity these are public comodities and should be state owned and the wealth used to improve infrastructure,hospitals, education etc.We need the khilafah state to be implemented to bring back justice to the lands of this ummah insha;lah and we should all strive for this change because its a matter of life or death

Posted by Ibrar Hussain | Report as abusive
 

Let Pakistanis not speak about what is happening in Kashmir, they are meddling into their neighbours buisness just for benifitting their Country!! Kashmir as everyone knows is the heaven on earth, Pakistanis want to use it to further their economy as they have nothn else they can do. The Nuclear weapons they have as many have spoken about are imported from China. Did everyone forget China here???? people might ask me why China.. and the answer is plain simple.. to control the region. Again Pakistan was targeted as being a agricultural society, they need water and the source is in Kashmir, then why have they so many jihadi organization? Do you know that muslims who went to Pakistan from India at the time of partition are called?? Kafirs.. I guess everyone here knows the meaning. Do they think that we do not know how they treat muslims themselves. On top of this they say that they feel the pain of Kashmiris!! Can there be more to the two sided face Paskistan has??? Talking about military action, they should not be so overconfident on their army which surrenedered in a war waged by Pakistan!!! :) They wanted to attack India and what happened was that they got kicked hard on the back. We Indian have had enough of a double speaking neighbour. India only wants the Pakistani Govt to shut the terror camps in PoK and dismantel the cheap organizatin which on the name of intelligence wage a proxy war. Another point worth mentioning is the terror in Pakistan, do you really think that it is not your fault. The organizations like Laskar and mujhaideen have been breeded by ISI, which lost control. Now you see that was a insect breeded by ISI which is now stinging thier arse!!! whatever said and done … beware if you wanna mess with India, India might just smudge Pakistan if these kinds of coward wars are waged by Pakistan on India.. we are losing our patience and it will not be long…

Posted by Sam | Report as abusive
 

By shouting, screaming and writing big blogs the indian fiction will not become reality – idiots wake up.

Pakistan is a land of great people have courage and dare – while indians have only big mouth which smells a lot

Pakistan Army Chief General Kayani slap indians tall claim to destroy Pakistan.

Long live and prosperous Pakistan

Posted by Peace | Report as abusive
 

Peace, it is really sad to hear that you say we are shouting, the country of Pakistan was formed by people who were shouting for freedom, they who took the freedom and formed a state of terrorism and such and look at her economy( nowhere near prosperous as has been mentioned), funded by US and still a mess! what has been written is not fiction but reality, the things which has not been talked especially by Pakistanis (Read Double Talk). This is to tell you that Pakistan is know for its shifting statements, demonstarted again recently after 26/11. History has repeated itself over and over again, Pakistan will never answer to the point just double talk, making the dialouge like a diatribe. We have asked for dismantaling the terrorist infrastructure and Pakistan takes it as a threat, is it so that Pakistan cannot do it( Peace can you comment?)? We have seen many generals in Pakistan, Kayani is just another one. he might slap the claim sitting in Pakistan, we will see if he will be able to when a real war happens. Peace and watch you foul mouth which calls us Idiots, we are the ones who gave you a piece of land and the money to call it Pakistan, never forget that.

Posted by Sam | Report as abusive
 

Sam you are ignorantly mistaken to say that whatever happening in “Kashmir Occupied by India” is India’s internal matter. Just wake up and try to read a little bit about international politics and History. Kashmir for your info has never been a part of India. We don’t claim Kashmir as our part but consider it as an independant peace of land,ought to be governed by the pplz living there, the Kashmiris. Need I remind you again the UN resolution passed in this connection but being criminally ignored to be implemented by the so-called secularly demoractic India and your lords in the west. Don’t forget that your founding fathers lead by Mr. Nehru themselves took up the issue with UN and UN passed unanimously the resolution which called for a plebsite to decide the fate of Kashmiris as per their determination. Kashmiris are struggling for their freedom, have sacrificed thier lives and honours for the just cause. We have been and will continue to be extending our moral support to these innocent kashmiris.
Secondly India should take sense pills in the vast interest of the global peace. We can’t and shall not allow india to maintain its hegemony following the footsteps of her lord in the west. Paksitan is an independant and sovereign country, well equipped and have got the guts to retaliate and cause unimaginable damage to any aggressive adventurism aimed at violating our territorial integrity. just drop the idea of carrying out surgical strikes at our soil and let not it be happened ever that we retaliate with massive strikes hard enough to kick your mother india’s ass out of this globe.

Posted by Advisor On Peace | Report as abusive
 

Did i said indians are idiot in my last blog or you have identified you real name.You guys are only good in words.
Now you country leader says “War is not an issue” – what a U-turn, indians are coward, its proven – true statistics – check out the number of casualty in 1999 event – who went to US to lick Bush boots – in 1965 war who was pushed back from PAKISTAN (Rawalpindi and Lahore) – Why india supported separation of Pakistan into Bangladesh.

india was then afraid of PAKISTAN and india is still afraid of PAKISTAN.

One advice, stop watching TV and look for real stuff and stop saying spoon feeded words and speak of truth only – which will be very difficult for you because your whole nation is based on lies — you dont even call you country with one name – as needed you call it india, you call it Hindustan, you call it Bharat — what is the real name of your country — FOOLS PARADISE.

Posted by Peace | Report as abusive
 

these Indians think they have a superior airforce . i ask them what kind of an airforce do they have with 200 planes crashing within a year . i think if this is the state of your airforce then you should reconsider war with Pakistan and we guys are just waitng for an attack you idiots.you were crying for help when we took over Kargil. these indin idiots thibk they canjust walk in through our land and can go back when ever they like. you fools open your eyes you are messing up with a nuclear armed nations and messing up with forces that are considered best in the world. and this time too what you will do we know better bring your forces to the border and then will move back. why dont you just attack cowards. your 120 commandos couldnt control 5 guys how will you blaoody fight with entire pakistani nation .

 

this article is especially for Sam. you are talking about our army the Pakistani army. let me tell one thing when there is a war you have to surrender at some places as well its a part of strategy but i think you should better read some history. Even Nepolean surrender on many fronts get some knowledge first then speak. and one thing more in 1965 indians started war against Pakistan and the indian war plans were sold to Pakistn by the Indian brigadeir and that is a shame. shame on indians and shame on you know the facts the speak.

 

WOW… u guys adeel and Peace.. have a lot of misunderstandings in ur head.. we’ll let them continue.. you talk of Kashmir.. the things happening and forgot who is making them happen..they have suffered of terrorism more than anything. They have suffered from Jihadi’s who have slipped into our borders. Kashmiri’s till now were never allowed to vote thanks to the terrorists from Pakistani Soil… This time the list of voters were all time high.. can anyone guess why or atleast can understand why (maybe u ppl have dropped ur brains on the road to terrorism, pls pick it up!) Kashmiris were never allowed to vote on itself, they were always bullied int0 anti- rallies… for everything there are some people who are Indians only to speak (I think they are maggots working for Pakistan). We do not think that we have a superior airforce.. We have it.. kargil was a good examle if you ppl forgot and even that you people lost!! If you boast so much about your soverinity, why has US attacked some areas in Pakistan without your puppet governments permission. Why were there no strikes on US.. got scared i guess!! you people say very easily war… dont you know what will happen to Pakistan even if there is a very small scale war.. do u think Pakistan’s Economy will be able to survive that effort?? We are atleast in a position to go to a war and guys please stop saying Nuclear Armed so many times, it looks like you monkeys have been given a cocunut shell to play with. Who talks about UN resolutions, will the real Pakistan please stand up?? They have always defied UN in everything.. They have still not taken proper measures against terror organization banned by UN.. Read Laskar and many others.. they continue to thrive.

Bangladesh happened and we supported it cause we did not want a second terrorist breeding country.. we already have a very nast one!

Adeel, you are right about srategy you need to surrender some times. but dont you know you surrender only when u lose a war!! Pakistan did not have any other front. your srategy was right about that cause you got Lahore back.. otherwise Pakistan would have been part of India again!!

Peace, you will never understand History and why ywe are called by three names.. that is partly to the almost non-existent history of Pakistan. Only 60 years.. I will not argue cause i am sure that you cannot think. Pick it up!

Adeel, Now, u said that our 120 commandos could not control 5 guys.. and u seemed happy about it. They were Pakistanis… This is how people of Pakistan think.. they have been thinking like that.. they take fun out of such incidents.. and you say you are a peace loving nation!!! This again proves your Double talk.. it is not good enough to talk to people who are talking with two faces, one to show the world and one to talk in thier sad, anti-democratic and terrorist country.. you giuys have got a label of Terror, even now your govt says word but will never do it.. we saw so many promises so many affirmations and so many supportive statement from Pakistan sayin they will do what is best for PEACE.. in the region but what happened was 26/11. See the damning politics you people have.. see the kind of learders who double speak each day and night..

Keep feeling good to know that you have Nuclear Weapons, boast it around, like I said a coconut shell and think only you have it!! You people will never be able to think.. only badger… learn to think and become civilized..

Posted by Sam | Report as abusive
 

I am an Indian and 100% agree with SAM wording…we are losers….due to our country dirty politics. Reality is this that we do not have enough dare to do any thing…thanks to our Indian Politicians.

Posted by Manas | Report as abusive
 

All my indian friends and media indulged in war frenzy should take sense-pills and go through the following
http://pakalert.wordpress.com/2009/01/02  /analysis-nuclear-armageddon-in-south-a sia/

For God-sake live and let live with peace and prosperity.

Posted by Shayan | Report as abusive
 

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