India, Pakistan and covert operations. All in the family?

December 18, 2008

Do read this piece by Gurmeet Kanwal, the head of the Indian Army’s Centre for Land Warfare Studies, about how India should respond to the Mumbai attacks with covert operations against Pakistan.

He says that ”hard military options will have only a transitory impact unless sustained over a long period. These will also cause inevitable collateral damage, run the risk of escalating into a larger war with attendant nuclear dangers and have adverse international ramifications. To achieve a lasting impact and ensure that the actual perpetrators of terrorism are targeted, it is necessary to employ covert capabilities to neutralise the leadership of terrorist organisations.”

But he also argues that India’s covert capabilities in Pakistan were wound down on the orders of the Prime Minister in 1997 so as to promote reconciliation. “If that is true, a great deal of effort will be necessary to establish these capabilities from scratch. It will take at least three to five years to put in place basic capabilities for covert operations in Pakistan as both the terrorist organisations and their handlers like the ISI will have to be penetrated. The R&AW must be suitably restructured immediately to undertake sustained covert operations in Pakistan. The time to debate this issue on moral and legal grounds has long passed.”

Pakistan has long accused India of supporting militants in its Baluchistan province, among other places, in retaliation for what New Delhi sees as Pakistani support for separatist movements in Punjab, the north-east, and in Kashmir. But for a democratic government, the value of covert operations is limited. India’s Congress-led government is under pressure now to show it is standing firm against the Mumbai attacks and (leaving aside ethical questions) you can’t achieve electoral popularity with covert operations.  That’s why it’s particularly interesting that someone like Gurmeet Kanwal would suggest them.

B. Raman, a former head of India’s Research and Analysis Wing (R&AW) made similar points in an article he wrote in May 2002 in response to the attack on an Indian Army camp in Kaluchak.

The situation we face today is due to the long neglect of the need for a carefully worked out counter proxy war doctrine to be implemented consistently, intelligently and with determination,” he wrote. ”Now is the time for formulating such a doctrine and implementing it — more covertly than overtly. A counter proxy war doctrine would provide space for both overt, correct state-to-state relations and simultaneously, covert undermining of the wielder of terrorism.”

I am not entirely sure what to make of this talk of covert operations rising above the surface. Does it imply there will be more covert operations? According to Gurmeet, India’s ability to run covert operations in Pakistan is hopelessly rusty, suggesting that Pakistan’s own accusations of Indian interference in Balochistan may be exaggerated. But then again, and to the credit of both India and Pakistan, few other countries in the world debate covert operations against each other so openly. 

My own experience – and this of course is limited to one person’s view – is that India and Pakistan understand each other rather better than appears to be the case, and certainly better than most countries outside South Asia understand either of them. So does that mean we are going to see more and more “messages” delivered to either side, in the form of covert operations, which only those inside the South Asian family can decipher?

(Reuters file photo of Indian troops on Siachen/Pawel Kopzynski)  

 

 

Comments

Covert Operation is not a solution to that — R&AW have already brutely damaged Pakistan – so please no more R&AW operations in Pakistan – we do not want anymore sarabhajeet singh in pakistan – who genocide many humans in early 90s.

Posted by Peace | Report as abusive
 

Pakistan’s ISI has mastered the capability of covert warfare when it was trained by the CIA to fight the soviet occupation in Afghanistan. Can India undertake covert operations in Pakistan? The ISI has a seperate directorate which handles India and Afghanistan affairs. I think ISI is better prepared to neutralize any covert Indian threats to Pakistan. OPen warfare or covert warfare, the choices and time is running out for India. The world community and specially the business community is waiting anxiously to see India’s response to Mumbai attacks. India’s position as an emerging country is in question now. India cannot stay on course unless the corruption is fought, hindu extremists are tamed. Epidemics like AIDS are stopped. Poor are given a voice, issues like Kashmir are resolved, relations with Pakistan normalize. Indians love to highlight Paksitan as a failed state, only overlooking their own failures in different fields.

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive
 

Musharaff was the best thing to happen to Pakistan.
Shoukat Aziz and Musharaf combination was leading Pakistan well, but for the bad luck of Pakistan Nation ppl like Asif Ali Zardari are holding seat of power.
Pakistan has been victim of terrorism much more than India is now. If it was so easy to clean Pakistani USA would have sanitised it by now.
I think India needs to work in partnership with PAK and not make them enemy by going for verbal war.
Banning JUD is not esay in Pakistan as JUD as just like India’s RSS, JUD is into charity , Education , Health care etc. would it have been possible for India to ban RSS incase charges in Malegoan bast case would have been proved.

So i guess it is high time Indian Govt as well as Indian People who are drawn by emotional not practical reasons want to attack Pakistan.(People cant see what happened to USA in Afghanistan and Iraq can We indian afford that)

I am no supporter of Pakistan but for sure want people to be rational thinkers, India media has blown things out of proportion.
Infact we Indians have so many flaws in internal security which any entity can breach any time, i think we are lucky enough that we are not hit by terrorist very often as after 26/11 i do feel the security level is not upto the mark let it be Airports, Railways Station or Key Installations.
Contarian Advertising Gurus, Emotional self proclaimed Defence Analyst and Terror Experts dont hold key to India’s Foreign Policy or internal security.
Even BJP is as good as current UPA govt as they could not understant til the very last moment that whole Kargil was under Millitants and India Army has been pushed back,
BJP advocates very tough anti terror laws, it is same BJP which handed over Masood Azer in Kahandhar Plane Hijack to Taliban.
Even Congress is a Communal party, India is lucky just because our Constitution is Strong else i feel our political system much more worse than that of Pakistan.

I guess we Indian should take time and first clean ourselves and then only try to poker our hand into other states.

Posted by Aasim Nisar Wani | Report as abusive
 

Umair,
I think you are illusioned a lot. Pakistan is nothing for India and Indians never care about Pakistanis except about terrorists. There is nothing great if you want to die in a bazaar after killing few defenceless people along with you. It can be described as a mental illness rather than terrorism. ISI is successfull because nearly 15% of India’s population is muslim and many Indian muslims support Pakistan with their heart and it’s a fact and politically correct media is not ready to accept it. Pakistan’s population has less than 3% non muslims and it’s difficult to carry on covert operation like ISI does in India. Regarding economy, There has been drastic changes in our lives in last ten years or so. Lots of foreign firms have come to India and India has produced several world class companies competing with IBM, Accenture etc. For India it’s better carry on with economic development rather than diverting it’s attention towards war and strengthen it’s internal security so that pigs from Pakistan won’t come to India again to kill people and leave tackling of terrorists to NATO forces for time being. India should also cut of relationships with Pakistan like they did yesterday by cancelling the cricket tour. Another ten years let’s see where we will be and see what happens to Pakistan?.

Posted by sudhir | Report as abusive
 

I think the Indians are out of their mind and have become a bunch of smucks They only talk but their own country is dis integrating under their own seperatists movements. They want to blame pakistan for all their problems but their problems lies with in. Their security is so ridicoulous that a bunch of kids came openly attacked and the whole security agencies were no where and collapsed. It’s high time for India to look into its problems and do reform from within instead of blaming outside states.

 

Sudhir
Do you really think we give a damn about India up here in Pakistan. Pakistan is positioned as a leading country of the muslim world. The second Islamic conference was held in Lahore in 1974, Pakistan is the first and so far only nuclear power in the muslim world. Other notable muslim nations being Saudi Arabia, Turkey, Egypt, Malaysia, UAE. Now if India doesnt want to play cricket, let it be. You might well have to face Pakistan in world cup matches. Will India forfiet its matches against Pakistan?
Sudhir, although you made a very bad comment about Pakistan. Still I would say if there are sensible people on both sides India and Pakistan shoul;d get along with life.
We dont need another cold war, The USSR and USA cold war is enough. It brought more pain. Me and you might be well off, wqe might have access to internet and luxury of internet. Think about millions of Indians and fellow Pakistanis who live around us in poverty. Lets use this forum to promote peace.

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive
 

While covert operation is an option for India..I dont see the need for one..there is enough targetted killings by politicians contracted terrorists, US Drones, Taliban, Alquieda, Baluchistan seperatists, Sindhis and addition of one more player in that rotten country doesn’t make a significant difference..Moreover India wouldn’t have openly spoken of covert operations if it were really willing to undertake such operations.
India knows it..and it knows this for a long time now only a full fledged war is the option against pakistan..but the difference this time if pakistan continue to fail to act againt anti-indian elements (non-state actors) India is putting together a gang and will do a gang-bang on pakistan this time.

Posted by Om | Report as abusive
 

I think the author or blogger is highly mistaken (I hope it is not intentionally done) in assuming that from sentences of well known authors like Raman words “Covert operation” means killing of civilians etc. or creating terrorist like acts. I do not think any one in India will argue that any government or nongovernment organization should be involved in any killings in Pakistan. I believe average Pakistani will have similar views that no killing of any civilian in India or Pakistan should be carried out.
Main problem seems to be that certain organizations which have either links with Pakistani army/ISI or had such links in past are involved in training such killers and giving it a color of religious war, to escape. Initially idea was to bleed India. Now the goal seems to have increased, to bleed practically every other country, specially USA UK Isreal etc. It even includes some parts of Pakistan.
By Covert operation surely Raman etc. meant to intrude into such structure to help in reducing these violent acts and marginalize these violent organizations. Rather than India doing this, it would be much better if Pakistani civilian authorities do similar activity. After all they will also not want such people to take power in their own countries. But time being they seem to be power less in front of these rouge elements generated with inspirations from certain rouge elements from Pakistani army.

Posted by soumyasrajan | Report as abusive
 

@ ALL PAKS:

Dear Paks, quit playing both sides of the coin….

Do you believe Israel has a right to exist? If not…then Pakistan has no right to exist either…because it was land stolen from Genocided Hindus. Fair is fair…is it not? Why should muslims always get what they want??

Pakistan should start supporting the existence of Israel, if it wants and credibility for its own existence.

I ask any of you to give a sensible and fair answer.

Posted by Fairness | Report as abusive
 

Fairness!!!
WHO RULED INDIA FOR 800 YEARS BEFORE THE BRITISH ?
It was muslims. Pakistan was for the muslims of the subcontinent who were the natural rulers of this land. Pakistan has every right to exist and every right to destroy any enemy that wants Pakistan not to exist.

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive
 

Umair has aptly summed up the destructive Psyche of not only Pakistan but most of the Indian sub-continent Muslims…& they also ‘covertly’ want to take revenge from Britain, who snatched India from them & handed it over to the Indians(read Hindu)…

Posted by Anup | Report as abusive
 

Umair,
I appreciate your patriotism, however both India and Pakistan got freedom after British Rule, almost 60 years over. Please see the economies of both the countries. Compare them.

The problem with Pakistan is everyone are Brainwashed about Patriotism, Islam etc etc. even here in India there are such people too however we do not spend much time to listen to them, we concentrate to improve our economy, living class, and reduce poverty. We are successfully achieving this, you can Google about India’s economic growth in past 60 years.
I urge as a fellow human being that please concentrate on these grounds and even inform your friends to improve your nation in terms of economy etc, and not in fundamental Islamic way.
The problem with Pakistan is that all your Government and Rulers falsely made you people fools by projecting India as Enemy, War with India, Kafirs etc. and were making nice $$$ for themselves. Your politicians always get expelled from Pakistan to UK why? And have you ever tried to think that the cost of living in UK is more than Pakistan, and how these people live there? Royally buddy Royally, when their Bank Balances are getting over they come back to your Country to make some…
Please think constructively, intelligently and then you will understand.

India don’t rely on Cricket for income generation, but for you it generates some income to nation, this we have heard from PCB and your previous Governments, but have you had a chance to think who were/are the beneficiaries? Its not the people, its same old politicians for their surgeries/self-relief funds.

Posted by Blogger | Report as abusive
 

Dear Fellows,

If two people can be easily excited to the point that they can fight with each other, then, the two people are “fed with” correct information (also read as facts) so that “hatred” rules. We see this in every domestic conflict (Iraq-Kuwait, Iran-Pakistan, Iran-Iraq, Iraq-Turkey, India-Pakistan). Ofcourse, this does not mean there are no issues, Ofcourse there are. But are they???

Pakistan and India are pretty much the same! Today the attention is Pakistan, and tomorrow, it-will-be India. There are lot of people who claim the pinnacle of Islam as greeting each “Allah Hafeez”, just as, many in India listen to Modi-Thackrey-types and nod their heads saying “Hindu-rahstra”.

The point is two people can easily be manipulated, if they have weak points – India / Pakistan, have that in plenty, at least for now.

Indian sub-continent has many muslims and hindus, among other groups, tribes – period.

Fist of all, change the history books of SAARC countries on what they teach about others. E.g. Aurengzeb is criminal in Indian history and a Hero in Pakistani history. That is what composite dialog should be about, affecting what can be affected. (not to mention SAARC has these days become a boring ‘routine job’).

You can shoot down people, jail them, torture them and ‘don’t talk to them’, -until- you find out that nobody wants talk to you. or rather nobody is there to talk to.

India has shy-ed away from addressing basic problems, because, it simply does not not know how to address them at any level (I mean even the brilliant Baboos haven’t got a clue). I am sure you have such people in the pakistan establishment, weather they agree or not.

Who knows it better? People from outside, can pick it up and use it. They may or many not be deliberately using this, but they know how to use this for their agenda.

So, the questions that one begs to understand is –
What is India’s agenda and in this particular case,
Pakistan’s agenda as well?????

Only a fool (defined as overconfident and ignorant at the same time) will say we all want peace! as there is plenty of evidence in South-Asia to point out that otherwise exists.

RK

Posted by RK | Report as abusive
 

Maratha King Shivaji!

All should google this man and not forget why Hindus still exist as a people.

Posted by our hero | Report as abusive
 

Umair is not answering the question about Israel.

Umair..give a response. Let us know. Your silence will be taken as though you are agree-ing with the formation of Israel and its right to exist.

Posted by Fairness | Report as abusive
 

TRUTH UNFOLDED:
Ajmal Amir Kasab, an accused in the Mumbai carnage was originally arrested in Nepal and kidnapped by Indian intelligence agencies. Nepal had arrested Ajmal Kasab before 2006 and handed him over to India. It should be noted that there was no visa requirement for Indian nationals and they could visit Nepal even without a passport. Kathmandu had become a hub of Indian intelligence agencies which freely operated there and faced no resistance from law-enforcement agencies even if they chose to kidnap somebody for taking him to their country. source http://www.dawn.com

Posted by Peace | Report as abusive
 

In my opinion, both Pakistan and India have been undertaking covert operations in each other’s territories since long.
Sometimes indian operations score a point, and sometimes pakistan forces are able register themselves.
The current happenings in Mumbai was unfortuate. In my personal opinion, Pakistan was not involved in the same. But the way indian media and politicians behaved and are still behaving is disturbing and unfortunate.
In such times of tension, its always better to talk about things. Fighting is no solution to any issue.
If indians are talking to world-wide powers , and trying to pin the blame on pakistan, the same can be done by pakistanis too. But this blame game will not solve the issues at hand.
I think, that political leadership of both nuclear powers should sit and talk about this incidence and try to come up with a long term solution. This terrorism is a menance, and is destroying all of our world. Tell me what legacy will we leave behind for our children ?
Its understandable that sentiments are high and tense in india, because they have faced this brutal incidence. But the leadership to step up, and try to cool down the tempers, rather than adding fuel to fire.

Posted by Markz Andrey | Report as abusive
 

@Markz Andrey
Markz you don’t get it do you?
India’s is a peaceful society, albeit with some aberrations whereas Pakistan is a state sponsor of terrorism. I am not sure if this is not clear form wherever you are sitting.
As is evident from multiple news and TV reports, Ajmal is a Pakistani. All Pak needs to do is to investigate who Ajmal used to work with and investigate the whereabouts of the handlers Muzammil and Lakhvi.
Is this such a difficult thing to do if one is sincere?
Flat denial of Pak leaders and some of its esteemed citizens here shows their culpability.

 

@ Hima Bindu
I would again say that you are again following the same blame path. Please step back and take a wider picture of the scenario.
I would again reiterate my earlier comment. Both India and Pakistan had resort to covert operations. No doubt general public of both countries is peace loving. But politicians on both sides are not. Political leaders of both countries use religious and ethnic misunderstandings to increase their own political mileage.
If Pakistan has Lashkar-e-Dawa, then India has BJP . If Pakistan assisted Talibans to fight russians in Afghanistan ( as per instructions of CIA ), then India created Tamil Tigers in SriLanka. If Pakistan has initiated certain operations in disputed Kashmir, then India is assisting Baluchistan separatist movement, and has setup about 20 high commissions in war-torn Afghanistan for this purpose. Number of evidences are available freely at places implicating both these countries.
You took name of Ajmal, well what do you say about the indian police officers who had caught the indian army officers responsible for train bombings, and the same police officers were also shot dead in this Mumbai incidence.
I again request everybody involved to show patience and maturity. Do not jump to conclusions prematurely . Its very easy to start a war, but its devastations will leave scars for next couple of generations on both sides of the border. At this point of time we all have to show flexibility and tolerance. People of both sides are agitated, and its responsibility of their leadership to cool the tempers.

Posted by Markz Andrey | Report as abusive
 

Andrey:
Its easy to stay out and pass comments like this, but as individuals of a nation who been suffering a lot because some brainwashed MORONs from Pak decides to Kill people from the neighbouring country and try show the world how stupid they are, its difficukt to forgive such people everytime..time has come that pak should be wiped out of global map,but worst is that they get support of Idiots like Antulay, who doesn’t knw what he is speaking about.
This incident will die down slowly and another similar incident would be required to wake us all. that the curse of this nation..red tappism and foolish politicians like Shivraj Patil( I hope he knw how to spell his name)

Posted by RR | Report as abusive
 

Though I personally approve of Israel as a country and appreciate jewish culture impact in the world I cant not see any comparisons between Israel and Pakistan.

Israel was created for jewish immigrants who had settled into the palestine state within the British Emprie mostly between 1920s and 1940s. Though there were always local jews they were a small minority. The point Israeli partition issue was the fact that most Arab locals felt that people were imported from Europe for the sole purpose of creating a nation.

Pakistan’s claim on the other habd are a bit different. The people of pakistan were always indian in their origin. Though some came from central asia this happened centuries ago and were now completly hindustani, their language, culture, food, habits all were indian except for their religon. India had never before British rule existed as a single nation (maybe in Asoka’s time). The concept of Pakistan was that the muslim people of Pakistan wanted a nation seperate from the rest of Indian states. As thus had been their land for centuries they had the right for self-rule given they were in majority.

Posted by aha | Report as abusive
 

@andrey,

please stick to same comments even when your country got effected, US got effected so it bombed afghanistan and Iraq to stone age, and all the europe and NATO forces involved in it, but you will preach leasons to others about the peace. is it not pseudo teachings? life very where is same, whether citizen belongs to rich or poor nation.

No one is saying pakistan directly participated in Mumbai operation, but is giving aide and support to criminals, how can they give shelter to a person (read dawood) who killed more than 500 people in india, that is what we want pakistan to respond and stop the activities, if not India can destroy the pakistan terror activist shelters in PoK and not to make war on Islamabad.

Posted by venkat | Report as abusive
 

Fairness!!!
WHO RULED INDIA FOR 800 YEARS BEFORE THE BRITISH ?
It was muslims. Pakistan was for the muslims of the subcontinent who were the natural rulers of this land. Pakistan has every right to exist and every right to destroy any enemy that wants Pakistan not to exist.

- Posted by Umair

Umair, I am not surprised they dont teach history well in pakistan let alone any other subjects. the real dynasty of moghals started in late 1500s under babar. british came in 1700s. if you use the math they teach in real world, the difference is only 200 years. even babar or akbar did not rule whole of india.

btw do you know who ruled pakistan afghanistan before the muslims came ? oh well the hindus & buddhists. it is technically our land.

Posted by vivek | Report as abusive
 

So i guess it is high time Indian Govt as well as Indian People who are drawn by emotional not practical reasons want to attack Pakistan.(People cant see what happened to USA in Afghanistan and Iraq can We indian afford that)

Even BJP is as good as current UPA govt as they could not understant til the very last moment that whole Kargil was under Millitants and India Army has been pushed back,
…….

Pakistan has been victim of terrorism much more than India is now. If it was so easy to clean Pakistani USA would have sanitised it by now.

……..
Posted by Aasim Nisar Wani

Aasim Nisar Wani,

if someone from your family had to undergo ordeal of being held hostage and live in fear you won’t say this. Indians line of thought is progressive. anything like this kind of terror activity is a hampering to our progress and we want to nix it.

holding indians hostage is an act of war. that is what kasab and his mates did.

Kargil was fought by paki army in terrorists garb. period.

pakistan has been a victim of terror than india ? well you inflicted it on others and bad karma always comes back to bite you. you didnt realise it. but india has not inflicted terror on any country and dont need to feel pity for a terrorist nation to be victim of terror.

why do you switch your nationality from pakistan to india in your whole post ? do you even know where you belong ?

Posted by vivek | Report as abusive
 

Pakistan is positioned as a leading country of the muslim world.

Umair,

i dont know where you live, the pakistan’s economy is in dire straits and country is near bankrupt (I am not talking about morals here, which pak never had, but money ) they begged money from their trusted allies china and saudi arabia who refused to give them even a paisa. now they are begging IMF to give them 7 billion.

do you call this a leading nation ? Oh may be leading nation in begging. good luck with that.

Posted by vivek | Report as abusive
 

There is a misconception among idiots that Pakistan has been defeated in all four wars with india. The super liars had been defeated by Pakistan in 1965 and one of Pakistan super pilot destroyed five indian jets in one minute, when india attacked Lahore without prior notification. In 1971 there was no war, it was war within Pakistan resulted in separation of west Pakistan, and that was done by the cruel intention of india and its R&AW intelligence agency. During Kargil Incident then indian PM went to USA for begging the piece from Pakistan, and Pakistan leave that position on its own on instruction of Bush, look at statistics which side got more dead soldiers. The first war was created by Hindu created cast sikhs – cast whose main objective is to protect hindus – when then genocide millions of muslims migrating to the independent and true country of peace.

Mumbai attacks are self created and there exist lots of evidences particularly the arrest of two men and then identified as states personnel, further there exist no corroborating evidence to Pakistan or any Pakistani link to that incident – Why so far evidence is provided to either Pakistan or anyone else in the world.

India had previously threaten to attack Pakistan, but now feared away. WHY? INDIA HAS WHOLE LIES AND NO TRUTH

Posted by Peace | Report as abusive
 

INDIA – SUPER POWER – SUPER RETRENCHMENT
In india more than 150,000 employees get laid off from thier employement so far see how many more – source “The observernt”

Any news of retrenchment in Pakistan so far – NO.

Who is th boss now?
Pakistan in better in economy than any other country in world – one proof for now.

Posted by Peace | Report as abusive
 

Yes, you are right. There is no news of retrenchment in Pakistan so far. coz Jihadis either die or they are caught & thrown into prisons!!!
Pakistan’s economy is better than india….Pakistan defeated india in 1965 war…..one pakistani pilot shot down 5 indian jets in a minute….WOW!! If this is what you learn in pakistan, then i’m not surprised why pakistan produces so many terrorists with only imaginable figures to boast about!!!!

Posted by Sanjeev Tandon | Report as abusive
 

Sanjeev Tandon
Yes it was Squadron Leader M.M Alam who shot down the five IAF Gnats in 1965 war in one sortie. Yes Pakistan successfully defended itself in 1965 war. No Pakistan is not a terrorist nation, what about Shiv Sena, RSS, BJP and hindu fascists in India? who burned alive the Australian missionaries, who raped and killed cristians in Orissa? who destroyed the Golden Temple of Sikhs? who massacred Gujarat muslims, Yes. Those were the hindu terrorists produced by India. Stop boasting about your country, introspection is needed here. This is the age of information, media and internet. Can you guys really fool the world? WOW!!! Idiots the world knows the reality about INDIA!!!

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive
 

Vivek
who cares if Pakistan is going bankrupt, Pakistan Air Force have enough fighter planes with full fuel tanks armed with missiles patrolling the airspace and ready to strike back if there is any surgical strike on Pakistan by IAF. All is well as long as we can afford a war with the world largest sham democracy.

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive
 

I am very disappointed by the dubious, crook minded double thinking of hindus who are posting on this blog. They seem to label Pakistan as breeding terrorism.
FACTS
1.PAKISTAN IS A MEMBER OF INTERPOL AND RECIEVED DELEGATION IN ISLAMABAD TO ASSIST IN MUMBAI ATTACKS.
2.PAKISTAN IS HIGHEST CONTRIBUTOR TO UN PEACEKEEPING AND HUMANITARIAN MISSIONS AROUND THE WORLD WITH MORE THAN 10,000 TROOPS DEPLOYED AS UN PEACEKEEPERS.
3.PAKISTAN IS SUPPORTING NATO’s ISAF MISSION IN AFGHANISTAN AND US MISSION UNDER UNAMA(UN ASSISTANCE MISSION IN AFGHANISTAN).
4.PAKISTAN IS CONDUCTING MILITARY OPERATION IN TRIBAL REGION TO FLUSH OUT EXTREMIST ELEMENTS.
5.MEMBER OF WTO, UNO, SAARC, OIC, HAVE GOOD RELATIONS WITH ALL 5 PERMANENT SECURITY COUNCIL MEMBERS. PART OF MANY INTERNATIONAL ORGANIZATIONS.
6.PAKISTAN IS (MNNA) MAJOR NON-NATO ALLY TO USA.

Indian leaders and Indians have one tagline, repaeting again like parrots: Pakistan is epicenter of terrorism.
Idiots the world does not buy your lies. Pakistan is a responsible member of international community. Bring the evidence, even the interpol chief has said India has not shared evidence of Mumbai investigation. Why? because there is NO evidence.

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive
 

Umair, I am not surprised they dont teach history well in pakistan let alone any other subjects. the real dynasty of moghals started in late 1500s under babar. british came in 1700s. if you use the math they teach in real world, the difference is only 200 years. even babar or akbar did not rule whole of india.

btw do you know who ruled pakistan afghanistan before the muslims came ? oh well the hindus & buddhists. it is technically our land.

- posted by vivek

Muslim rule didnt start with the Moguls but with Mohammed bin Qasam in Sind then the Persian and Turks in North India (Delhi). 95% of muslims in Pakistan were hindus before they became muslims, and before the Aryan invasions they were not even hindus. So it is unfair of Umair to say that muslims ruled india thus it is their land… or for vivek to say that because the ruling religon was once hindu so they have the claim to the land now. Religion is a changing thing, ethnic origin has stayed the same.

Posted by Ali | Report as abusive
 

Indian “Idiots” will never understand Pakistan.
Pakistan , “Land of the pure” (remember “Army of the Pure”) is the most “peaceful” , most “peace-loving” , most “productive” member of international community.
Needless to say , our own leader (Mian Nawaz Sharif) admitted that he has personally visited the village of super-star “Kasab” and he has met his parents, and we stop living in denial and accept the reality and we should deal with it, and that Pakistan is almost a “failed” state . With no diplomatic help from China and US, Pakistan’s options are limited. We should stop living in a dream world and wake up before it’s too late.
A good opinion piece in News , take a read : http://www.thenews.com.pk/daily_detail.a sp?id=153509

Posted by Jinnah | Report as abusive
 

India is one of the biggest aggressors in the world. They openly threaten countries. They have no common sense and decency. Indian media channels are they most biased and biggest funders of Hindu extremism along with the sham government.

Posted by Raja | Report as abusive
 

Before India retaliate, I think they should deploy troops in Afganistan to check the alqaida and talaban. Massive deployment of troops in Afganistan would also pressure Pakistan to deal with terrorits directly and might avaoid a war.
If pakistan doesn’t go after the terrorits and comply with India’s demand then it should retaliate. At this this situation India will be in a better position strategically by encircling pakistan.
One way or other India must make the pak accoutable now or later she’ll regret it.

Posted by Sonny P | Report as abusive
 

Umir, my bro
Ofcourse pakistan is a terrorist state as per the defeniton of a terror state – that support/harbor terrorists and their activities that intent to harm innocent people in their own country or another country. By all means i would never say all pakistanis support terror or terrists. But as they say a few bad apple in a basket would the whole basket rot. So before the whole basket go bad I would encourge good citizens of pakistan join the together with their brothers in India and get rid of the devil before devil itself come back to haunt you.

Posted by kurian P | Report as abusive
 

I am an indian and would like my pakistani friends to be more practical . Although i appreciate your patriotism but its like a fairy tale for you bt untrue.

Firstly, everyone knows india got rid of pakistan in 1965,71 and kargil. We all know india has been progressive nation with one of the largest economies in Asia after china. Pakistan is a kid in this area.

Secondly, i dnt know about your story of one pilot attacking 5 jet planes.Even if its true, i would like to see the things in present context. You all pakistanis are smart dynamic people but unfortunately blinded by your media and govt activites.

Thirdly,Time and again evidence of pakistan’s bloody terrorism has been shared bt no actions taken. There are amny Masood azhars and kasabs in pak and we need to nail them down, rather fk them up cose they took some innocent lives. Lets just forget for a momne tif these lives were indian/pakistanis.

Fourthly, dont tell me muslims ruled the world. It looks like a class 1 kid talking with his stupidity coming out.Even if it was the case, there are more muslims in india then in pakistan. Guys, dnt play the religion card cose it remains apersonl choice.

Lastly, take it easy, accept the fact that pakistan is nurturing terrorism although at some pts it is coming bk to you as well. And better, not talk about hindu muslims. Its looks cheap.

Posted by div | Report as abusive
 

Dear All,
We should think one thing in mind that, the entire root cause and master mind of International Terrorism lies in USA, i.e. CIA. Our Indian R&AW, Pak’s ISI or Kabul’s agency are just puppy’s playing in the hands of USA. It is USA who is moving the cards (now they are using Pakistan and ISI, unfortunately, and once they completely suck out Pakistan, they will come to India, which is happening)for their internal benefit, by bringing both of us for war so that they can sell their junk ammo to foolish Indian and Pakistanis military. What can you think of a failed businessman do to get rid of his spoiled stock in his godown?. He tries to identify the idiots who can purchase it, by diplomatically or with force. So he tries to cleverly sell them off to both. Sell F-16 to Pak and Nuclear to India. Let both of them fight with each other, so that they can sell more F-16s and nuclear plants!. What a shame for both of us!.

Here the problem for Pakistan terrorism is not ISI or Pakistan government, its is the clever CIA, who is playing the game, using ISI for its benefit. The moment Pakistan and India joins hands and become one country (atleast) and one superpower, then you wont find any global terrorism or militants in the world. Now the time has come for India and Pakistan to unite and throw USA out of the region. But I don’t think when it will happen!.
Let only god can help India and Pakistan.

Posted by True Indian | Report as abusive
 

I completely agree with True Indian. It is the USA which is the center of all problems.

First they bailed out bloody banks and thus skyrocketed inflation for which many poor people and my family are still suffering. They just knocked out all the hope for our growth. With rising inflation, the cost of everything rose even after so-called present deflation.

Also, we should not waste time and money in this bullsheet talk. We should rather enjoy history, do some work and bother more about sustainable future in the uncertainities ahead. Every body loses in a war. Perhaps, Pakistan may be wiped out. But India will live in another hell for a long time to come. Surely this is not what we want.

I never get angry reading about Shivaji or Aurangazeb. Both are history. If Hindus think their rulers had ruled this place before Muslim rulers came, then what did they do when Muslim Sultans were invading. Those were the times of Kaliyuga. It still continues. It only degrades day by day. The good thing in 2000s is that many people in Asia are very educated (not just literate) and are regaining their lost wealth to Europe and West.

If you check history, Asia was the most richest continent on the planet, that the West had not had a slightest Idea. It is after some rascal Europeans who sailed and discovered this rich world that started all scoundrels of the west to come and loot entire Asia.

Now Asia is growing, regaining its lost wealth. Lot of wealth has already from west to east. Also it is only in East a sustaninable independent economy can be build without need of exports. Rememer, Asia has more than half the world’s population.

So, we should stop producing more terrorists by war talks and engage in peaceful activities.

Posted by Another Indian | Report as abusive
 

Well, My Pakistani friends can shout at the top of their voices and give facts & figures taught only in pakistani schools. But this can hardly change the facts. And the fact is that today pakistan is a failed nation reduced to a state of a begger dependent on IMF. On the other hand, Indian economy is booming and acknowledged by the world.
So my pakistani friends, grow up!!! pakistan’s economy wont prosper by shouting & giving imaginary figures. and yes! dont worry about minorities in india. They get equal opportunities & thats the reason they occupy the posts of prime ministers & presidents in india!!! The poor state of pakistani minorities is well known. so pls dont give that crap!!!

Posted by Sanjeev Tandon | Report as abusive
 

INDIA – SUPER POWER – SUPER RETRENCHMENT
In india more than 150,000 employees get laid off from thier employement so far see how many more – source “The observernt”

Any news of retrenchment in Pakistan so far – NO.

Who is th boss now?
Pakistan in better in economy than any other country in world – one proof for all idiots, need any more.

Posted by Peace | Report as abusive
 

Posting by “Peace” read like a work of fiction. I am a Pakistan and consider myself to be very patriotic however I am also a realist.

Pakistan is a failing economy (though not a failed economy). One major reason for this mismanagement by the government and also the national security climate, in 1980s we had the afghan war, in 1990s we had nuclear linked sanctions and since 2001 we again have war and terror. This has dryed up FDI and mixed with misrule has resulted pakistan to seek IMF help time and again.

India on the other has had a strong industrial base since 1947 which during 1990s they have a developed into a strong condtender to seek FDI. This has been coupled with better government policy of spending in education and skill development and as a result India has become one of the strongest economies in the world.

However we should not forget both countries are still third world with major case of poverty, social injustice, religious extremeism and incresing gap between rich and poor.

India is five times bigger than Pakistan. And has different goal in the world stage, which Pakistan can never gain. For example no matter how successful France gets it will never be the same as America. Pakistanis have to acknowledge this and make their own plans accordingly.

India however also have to acknowledge she is not yet America and Pakistan is not Afghanistan. India will also suffer damage if she attacks Pakistan. An highly unstable Pakistan will have the same effect on India’s economy as a highly unstable Afghanisatan has had on Pakistans.

Secondly though Pakistan clearly lost in 1971 India’s performance was not optimal in 1965 and Kargil. In 1965 India failed to take Lahore in 2 weeks (the average time she is to have before the international community usually intervenes). In Kargil India had major intellegence failures, high causalties considering it was fighting paraforces in its own yard.

Posted by Ali | Report as abusive
 

By naming “Ali” does not resolve you as a True Pakistan – you are similar to game plan of india as dramatise in mumbai attack, you are actually an indian wearing PAKISTANI skin — everybody now understand this….. think of something new.

Posted by Peace | Report as abusive
 

It is so heartening to see such robust responses from Peace…as he says Pakistan is “better in economy than any other country in world”…I am sure that soon the Pakistan government will step in and sort out the present global economic crisis single-handedly and earn the everlasting gratitude of the EU,USA,Japan,China and the rest of the entire world…perhaps they may make Peace the head of the World Bank or the IMF too for his ability to recognise the greatness of the Pakistani economy too!

Posted by Hamid Gul | Report as abusive
 

Its true Pakistan don’t have strong industrial base but this is not because of lack of talent otherwise they could not be nuclear power, it’s only because of unstable government. They have a taste of development but helpless because of handicapped government management.
Youth of Pakistan must have to take a step for it.
One impossible way comes in mind that if Pakistan-India comes together then there won’t be any country that can beat us any manner.

Posted by Nitin | Report as abusive
 

We have been subjected to the open/covert was by pakistan against us indians since we came in to existence as a nation. its more than a political struggle, it has a religious and clash of civilizations overtones to it. We are not USA to be able to launch an open all our war against a nation who has been doing this to us. We cant call their president and say that “we will bomb you back to stone age”. We are unfortunate to have a neighbour thats suppossed to be the headquarters of all islamist extremism and militancy and whos openly against us. We do , what we have to do.

Posted by jeet | Report as abusive
 

We need to take some very strict actions against those who think about hurting people around even in their wildest dreams. We need to set some examples.

We need to bring proof in front of the world about the guilty people responsible for all that has happened, and ask some very straight forward questions to Pakistan. I am not in favour of stopping peace talks with Pakistan, but that should not come across as our weakness any more. Pakistan has been taking our efforts to establish peace for Granted, they have always tried to Make Kashmir an agenda, when we wanted to bring their attention towards stopping terrorism in their Land.

To certain extent it does not matter to the civilian community which part of the border they stay in, till the time they are assured of security, and prosperity and get their self respect. The very Idea of developing fear and hatred for each other is frightening.

Now that Coalition forces may draw back their troops from Iraq, there are high chances that Pakistan will join hands with Iraq and AfGanisthan to run antisocial activities.

All countries know about the truth of what happens inside Pakistan. They just want to say it publicly in front of the workd community. United nations needs to run an impartial investigation on this, and come up with a areport before all nations.

Once proved that Pakistan encourages antisocial acitivities, ut should be banned by the world community. If Pakistan changes its heart today, we are open for peace talks.

In any case citizens of either country should not be hurt, and governments of both nations should keep the benfit of their citizens in priority.

Posted by rakeshbera | Report as abusive
 

Post Your Comment

We welcome comments that advance the story through relevant opinion, anecdotes, links and data. If you see a comment that you believe is irrelevant or inappropriate, you can flag it to our editors by using the report abuse links. Views expressed in the comments do not represent those of Reuters. For more information on our comment policy, see http://blogs.reuters.com/fulldisclosure/2010/09/27/toward-a-more-thoughtful-conversation-on-stories/
  •