Pakistan: Now or Never?
Perspectives on Pakistan
India – aiming for diplomatic encirclement of Pakistan?
Email 
Print
India is piling on the diplomatic pressure to convince the international community to lean on Pakistan to crack down on Islamist militants blamed by New Delhi for the Mumbai attacks.
According to the Times of India, “India has made it clear to the U.S. and Iran as well as Pakistan’s key allies, China and Saudi Arabia, that they need to do more to use their clout to pressure Pakistan into acting…” The Press Trust of India (PTI), quoted by The Hindu, said India had used a visit by Saudi Foreign Minister Saud al-Faisal to Delhi to drive home the same message.
As discussed previously on this blog, in the immediate aftermath of the Mumbai attacks, India’s response was to look to the United States to put pressure on Pakistan. It also appears to have won some support from Russia, whose officials said publicly that the attacks were funded by Dawood Ibrahim, an underworld don who India says lives in Pakistan. China, Pakistan’s traditional ally, supported the United Nations Security Council in blacklisting the Jamaat-ud-Dawa, the charity accused of being a front for the Lashkar-e-Taiba. China’s Foreign Minister has also telephoned his counterparts in India and Pakistan urging dialogue, according to Xinhua.
And to complete the tour of the permanent members of the Security Council, Britain blamed Pakistan-based militants for the Mumbai attacks, while France has also called on Pakistan to take action.
That’s a fairly broad consensus in favour of diplomatic pressure. There certainly seem to be more players more visibly involved than in 2001/2002 when India and Pakistan came to the brink of war over an attack on the Indian parliament that India blamed on Pakistan-based militants. You might therefore be tempted to argue that the diplomatic approach is working — and as long as this stands a chance, the prospects of military escalation are slim.
So what is going wrong? Despite the flurry of diplomatic activity, the military tensions are rising. Pakistan has cancelled army leave and redeployed troops. The Washington Post said thousands of troops were being redeployed from the Afghan border to the border with India.
Are the two countries’ armies simply making sure they are prepared, just in case the diplomatic efforts fail? Or is there more going on behind-the-scenes?
Comments RSSPost Your Comment
-
Author Profile
-
Whats going wrong??
There are two centers of power in Pakistan the elected government and the army, come to think of it there is only one center of power and its the army..
Pak army is trying to generate a buzz to neautralize the diplomatic pressure on pakistan civilian administration. It would be intresting to see if India falls prey to the trick and responds in kind, I would hope not.
An important point is being made the troop deployment is a clear indication from Pak army to let the americans know that Pak army alone is the supreme authority and is in no mood to take orders fro US government.
A change of some sort is on cards in Pakistan, civilan government shape up or some political assination in the next few months.
Its sad to see the dominos fall in Pakistan..
Myra,
Pakistan’s civilian government was initially very open and ready to help India. However, it was reined in by the military establishment in Rawalpindi and that was that.
The real question is – why are all world powers willing to line up behind India to such an extent?
The answer is – This is no longer an India-Pakistan issue.
LeT and the alphabet soup of jihadi groups still thriving in Pakistan with various levels of state support or benign neglect now pose a direct threat to the whole world. Just in 2008, I counted over TWO DOZEN major terror plots or terror attacks in US, UK, Europe and Australia that were traced back to Pakistani groups like the LeT, JeM etc.
The escalation is happening because the Pakistan army knows that it can no longer defy world pressure and therefore needs a distraction. The Generals in Pindi seem to believe that as long as the world fears a war in South Asia, Mumbai will be all forgotten. That has been the case with past attacks.
I think Mumbai is different and Pakistan is close to the time it needs to pay the piper.
Myra,
One more thing. The “we are moving troops from the Afghan front to face India” thing is a clear blackmail attempt by the Pakistan army to push the US to make India back off. I’m sure the Americans are telling Delhi to not push things militarily but they will not succumb to crude blackmail.
Sadly, Pakistan has gone back into denial mode and we are seeing reports that Islambad denies that the surviving bomber is a Pakistani, even after several Pakistani journalists and a TV station proved his Pakistani identity conclusively. Geo TV showed his neighbors saying that Kasab came home four months ago and boasted of jihadi training. His parents have now “disappeared”
There are some pretty concrete reasons for Pakistan’s mistrust of India’s claim that the Mumbai terrorists were Pakistani. There are 3 instances of terrorism in the past involving India which were blamed on either terrorists from Pakistan or the Pakstani government, but later were found not to be true.
In 2000, while President Clinton was visiting India, there was a terrorist attack in Indian Kashmir on a group of Sikhs in a place called Chittisinghpura. It was a horrible atrocity. Islamic militants from Pakistan were blamed and it was played up in the media. A few months later, it came out that the attacks were most probably perpetrated by Hindu militants.
In 2006, the Samhjota Express train carrying Pakistani visitors inside India was attacked and scores of people were killed. For several months, the media and even some Indian government officials put the blame squarely on Pakistan-based Islamic militants. It took over a year for evidence to ascertain that the real culprits to be charged most probably were from a Hindu fundamentalist organization.
Going back a little further in time, I believe in 1970, an Indian airliner was hijacked and forced to land in Pakistan. The hijackers claimed to be Kashmiri freedom fighters and they blew-up the plane on the runway after all the passengers and crew were evacuated. No one was hurt, but they sought asylum and recieved it in Pakistan.
India then prohibited any Pakistani overflights across its territory to the former East Pakistan and that prohibition of its airspace made it easier the next year to defeat Pakistan in the Bangladesh liberation war. But what was truly surprising is that it turned out later that the real identity of the hijackers were those of Indian intelligence agents.
These 3 cases are fairly well-documented and readers can do their own research to verify them for themselves.
Therefore, due to the history of mistrust and erroneous blame, Pakistan is currently unconvinced of Indian evidence that the terrorists of Mumbai are the nationality that India says they are. At that’s why Pakistan is demanding bona fide evidence form India before taking further actions.
I personally feel Pakistan should crack-down on LeT regardless of whether it’s proven that they did the Mumbai massacres or not, beacuse they have been implicated with more concrete proof to be involved in several other attacks on innocent civilians.
Pak is pressing panic button like its playing piano
1. It denies kasab pakistani
2. Pak media exposes kasab is pakistani
3. Pak govt responds by sealing off kasabs villabe for media. Media says it character of Kasab is created by India. THis is typical pakistani mentality. we are not moronic like pakis. If we had same brain as you we could have created Kasab character during 2001 parliment attack.
4. Pak claims it captured one india national for Lahore blast.
5. Again pak media exposes that lahore blast was done by taliban
6. Pak govt responds by they captured 4 indian nationals. My question is why there were no Indian national captured and advertised before 26/11?? We know that they are fictious characters. Can you provide photo of the person captured???? Hahah
7. Now pak is playing another card of pulling troops from Afgan and move to indian border. Lets witness “nanga naach” ( naked dance) of pakistan. WHole world can watch what is happening
What more is needed to convince Pakistan of LeT involvement in attacks. The irrationality and ego of the last post indicates that nothing said would convince a country in denial of an obvious example of mass murder. I cannot sympathize with a government like Pakistan which is discounting evidence from not only India, but Britain and the United States. And one thing that everyone knows is when it comes to facts, the west reports them. Whether you like them or not, you must accept them. When people die, the accountable must be found and prosecuted. If denial reigns, then one can justify mass murder of innocent civilians because they are blood coming from the “ENEMY”. This is how Pakistan is acting, and human life is human life whether it is a Pakistani, Indian, or American.
Pakistan is trying to hoodwink the world by talking about the involvement of Hindu Terrorist Organization. We do not know whether that is true or not but attack on Mumbai was designed , engineered in Pakistan and executed in India. Pakistan , infact has been the hub of so many terrorist manufacturing factories. The country has been a failed state and become a butt of joke on the international arena. Recently Yashwant Sinha , former Indian foreign minister has said that Pakistan is in denial mode to such an extent that if One says that the terrorists are from Karachi , Pakistan Government will say that Karachi is not a part of Pakistan. This country has become a nuisance for the whole world and is a threat to world peace.
The world must understand and face the harsh reality: the Pakistani sponsored terrorism is not going to end with words. It will never end as long as there is a country called Pakistan, which must wage war, directly or indirectly through terrorism, in order to survive. Destabilization of India and Afghanistan is among the basic “principles” of the terror entity of Pakistan.
What happens next time there is a terror attack in India?
The sooner India acts the better for all of us. Indians should be warned that some American and British Cold War and Great Game fundamentalists have short memories when it comes to Pakistan’s terror activities since her unfortunate and tragic birth in 1947. India should NOT count on West, which will lose Asia because of blindness to Pakistani crimes in Afghanistan and India. West, with America and Britain at the head will soon have to choose between India and Afghanistan on the one hand and the evil British creation called Pakistan on the other.
Terrorism will not go away as long as there is an artificial and colonial entity called Pakistan.
Pakistan is a failed state. There is no distinction between State & Non-state actors. Power free flows from one to another based on financial incentives from it’s sunni paymasters in middle east – namely Saudi Arabia. Each power center in pakistan – ISI, Government & Army feeds on each other through corruption. Money for survival of these power centers flows from middle east. The quickest way to resolve this issue is financial & diplomatic – cut all funds – world bank, NGO assistance and the state’s behavior will change. This State cannot exist alone – it cannot govern itself, protect itself and control it’s own criminals. How & when can it ? It has to broken up for sake of stability of Western, Eastern Asia & Middle east.
Pakistan as a country is a complete failed state.. its civilian government can’t even keep track of the terrorist organizations the Pakistani army employs. What moral ground does it hold over India? a nation trying to separate itself from the blunder called Pakistan. The only thing really holding Pakistan up is the large conditional money the U.S send for its fight against the Taliban… and even that is going poorly
The U.S Government should take a serious look at the country it choose to be its “major non-NATO ally”
Myra,
So far, the success of India’s diplomacy has turned on the heat on Pakistan. I think, India, will keep its armed forces on alert despite an ongoing military build-up by the Pakistani army.
Pakistan wants India to respond militarily so that it can divert the world’s attention from the terrorism on its soil to a trivial India-Pakistan dispute. Pakistan knows that if the confrontation begins the world powers will intervene and force a settlement. This does not serve India in its efforts to catch the terrorists behind Mumbai attacks. A war at this time will play in the hands of Pakistani army, which is already getting whipped mercilessly on its western border.
Myra,
You make a glaring mistake at the end of the article. You say, “Are the two countries’ armies simply making sure they are prepared, just in case the diplomatic efforts fail?” after reporting that the Pakistan army has just deployed thousands of troops on its border with India. Where have you seen any deployment by the Indian Army? Where have you seen any kind of trial runs by the Indian Air Force over major cities in India? This is a mass war hysteria being whipped up by the Pakistan Armed Forces to distract their people from the Mumbai terror attacks.
This has been a sinister conspiracy by the Pakistan military establishment to go to war with India and thus deflect the criticism they have been getting at home due to their fight against the Taliban (who wnjor popularity in Pakistan) and their inability to prevent US airstrikes on their soil. They thought that by hitting India hard, they could provoke a military response by the Indian government, thus giving them the perfect excuse to withdraw from an unpopular war against the Taliban and occupy centrestage again as Pakistan’s saviours against India.
Some of the commenters here have some very unrealistic views. Pakistan is not going to go away and there should be a differentiation between Pakistan’s government & people and terrorists residing in Pakistan. These terrorists have killed and maimed 100′s if not 1000′s of Pakistanis too – I think you better keep that in mind. And Benazir Bhutto was one of their main targets. The terrorists who did the terrible deeds at Mumbai, appear to be of the same lot who did the terrorism at the Marriot in Islamabad. I’m not sure of that’s true but it appears to be true and needs to be proven.
Nationalism and rivalry are overlapping the real scourge to both the countries of India and Pakistan which is terrorism.
To Aleitha,
India does not want to share the evidence with Pakistan first, because she knows the Pakistani response in advance. Instead, India chose to share the evidence with other major powers and build a consensus that will help call Pakistan’s bluff.
The mistrust between India and Pakistan is mutual. History is witness that Pakistan always disowns its own litter – Pakistani nationals in disguise – in the beginning, only to accept it few years later. On several occasions, India has uncovered the Pakistani involvement in disguise, followed by an immediate denial from Pakistan; for example, the wars in Kashmir in 1948 and 1965, the years of Sikh terrorism in the 1980′s, the ongoing Kashmiri infiltration, the Indian Airlines plane hijacking incident at Kandahar in 1999, the war at Kargil in 1999, the India parliamentary attack in 2002 and the Kabul embassy bombings in 2008.
Alethia,
Your statements are blatant lies. Either that or you’re utterly ignorant of the facts and make up your own fairytales to suit your twisted ideology. Let me educate you about those three incidents. The 2000 massacre of Chittisinghpura was carried out by the Lashkar-e-Toiba. There is adequate documented evidence about the fact so much so that Bill Clinton, who erroneously claimed that “Hindu militants” were involved, was severly criticized and the publisher Harper Collins later routed a public apology through Madeleine Albright’s office. The error was said to be due to a mistake in the “fact checking process”.
The 2006 Samjhauta train blast was traced to a serving Indian Army Colonel and 3 others-there was no organised militant group involved, and the initial blame on Pakistan based groups was simply due to the fact that EVERY TERRORIST ATTACK in major Indian cities until then was the handiwork of Pakistan trained and funded terrorists. The Samjhauta attack was the FIRST of its kind EVER to have been carried out by a group espousing Hindu nationalism.
The airline hijack actually took place in 1971, not 1970 and the hijackers were Kashmiri separatists. There is absolutely no doubt about this-the Pakistani government then sentenced 1 of them to 8 yrs imprisonment. Read about that here:
http://terrorism.about.com/od/originshis tory/a/JKNLFHijacking.htm
So please don’t be a Pakistan apologist. Only a pseudo-intellectual like yourself will spin lies and half truths to justify their support for a terrorist state like Pakistan. Pakistan’s support for cross-border terrorism is well known and acknowledged by western intelligence experts. It is because of comments like yours that in the past, Pakistan has not been made to pay for its crimes….
To Alethia,
Alethia,
I dont know where the chittisingpura massacare is well documented to have been carried out by hindu militants. In fact, it is well documented to the contrary of what you say on wikipedia, which explains why people may have the confusion that you do. Still it would take desperate denial to come to the conclusion you do.
For cultural and historical reasons alone, it is IMPOSSIBLE for ANY HINDU MILITANT, particularly MILITANTS, to target sikhs. The hardcore hindus think of sikhs as their own and even feel indebted to their gurus, particularly Guru Tegh Bahadur. The sentiment of treating them same as hindus actually becomes offensive to some sikhs, but that is another story.
To Nikhil: Well if both countries are so distrustful of one another, there should be a neutral party carrying evidence from India to Pakistan and from Pakistan to India and prosecute the criminals who did the Mumbai attack.
Pakistan said at first they would send the head of their ISI but went back on their word.
The Interpol head said India was not cooperating with sending evidence to it while he said Pakistan was.
What’s the story here?
I would be nice to see the masterminds caught and peace between India and Pakistan. But somebody has to shake these two countries to stop deceiving eachother.
I have no answers for this. I’m frustrated.
Myra,
The great game of deception in Pakistani Media and at International Level is Smoke Screen for real action and on going preparation by PAKISTANI MILITARY.
If war between India and Pakistan is Fought the Looser will be Pakistani Population and Democracy. The winner Will be China- If war is Fought it will not be for Defense of Pakistani JIHADIS OR PAKISTANI POPULATION BUT A PROXY WAR FOR CHINA that’s my take.
The unintended beneficiary will be VARIOUS JIHADI GROUPS.
LOOSER WILL BE PAKISTAN AS A NATION FALLING APART IN TIME to FIVE SMALL NATIONS.
Real intelligence is Missing at this time, lots of Smoke Screen, But Facts are Pakistani ARMY IS MOVING IT’S MANPOWER AND EQUIPMENTS TO EASTERN BORDER.
Alethia,
I do agree that pakistan too is a victim and in the case of war it will hurt the normal people the most on both sides of the border.
The terrorists are usually the local goons who have found inspiration. These people then cause trouble for every one.
Unfortunately in pakistan the source of inspiration has become a misinterpreted islam aided by defence strategies of ISI. In India too there are trouble making groups for whom the source of inspiration comes from the naxal, communist ideals and sometimes from regional aspirations. Nevertheless TERRORISTS are INSPIRED GOONS no more.
The United States will Gain in the long run if India and Pakistan go to war. They will support India which is a much stronger ally in the not to distant war with China. It will also give the US a free hand in Pakistan the only nuclear Muslim nation and it will further isolate Iran and force Saudi Arabia to deal with own extremist and become Americas puppet with no political agenda other than pro-US which will lead to the US having a monopoly on crude oil
The so called strategic thinker’s controlling the Pakistani Army and ISI fail to understand one basic point, these Jihadist radicals are an enormous problem for Pakistan. As a wise man ( Lee Kuan Yew ) mentioned, no matter how powerful the jihadists become they have no hope of capturing India. For Pakistan however it is a very mortal threat which is already happening, witness the Taliban burning schools and murdering girls in Swat valley. They need to fight the Taleban and other jihadist terrorist groups for their own sake, not because of pressure from US, UK or India.
They also need to get over their ir-rational fear of India. It is obvious to everyone that in its own self interest, India wants a stable and prosperous Pakistan.
Indeed if India really wanted to destroy the Pakistani state, then there would be no better way than distracting the Pakistani Army from fighting the Taliban and other terrorist groups. This would ensure those cancerous lunatics will ultimately infiltrate and destroy Pakistan internally.
I read with interest comments of firo, he had a great knowledge of Pakistan and its problems.
I think India should go for the later option as mentioned by firo.
I read and saw the nucliar postwar holocaust materials and pictures at the UN Musium in New York few years back.
We have to learn from the history.
Time is ripe to implement ralph peter plan to redraw middle east . Baluch are united and support India .
Long Live Balochistan,
Death to Pakistan
To Alethia:
From your posts it’s quite evident that you haven’t been following events, and have formed opinions without relevance to facts. Probably the most important piece of evidence are cell phone records and GPS trails collected by both Indian and US investigators. They have been accepted as genuine by every country except Pakistan. And of course you have the confession from the captured terrorist and further details therein. A simple google news search should give you more details. It might also interest you, but claimed home town of this terrorist Qasab has been cordoned off to the media after his confession.
Now any reasonable application of law dictates that this evidence be considered sufficient to initiate further investigation. After all, similar evidence was also provided by FBI or MI5 after 9/11 or 7/7. Unless Pakistani state is somehow involved in a cover up, one fails to understand its intransigent posture.
Making claims about past history doesn’t help your case. Please stick to the Mumbai attacks here.
To Alethia,
In response to your comment, all I can say is that the neutral party between Indian & Pakistan is the US. Why the US? Because the US is the patron to the Pakistani army – the central authority in Pakistan – which is responsible for issues related to national security and foreign relations.
Why was the evidence not shared with the Interpol? The Indian government will officially turn in the evidence when the investigation is completed. I doubt anything will come out of it. Dawood Ibrahim’s name is already in the Interpol list for over a decade. However, he lives freely in Pakistan and enjoys his birthdays in his mansion in Karachi.
In my view, no war is going to break out between India & Pakistan. India does not want to engage in any war that will risk derailing its economic growth and social development. However, the generals in Rawalpindi may have other sinister plans; a military coup may be? Time will tell!
Myra, but it seems that the Indians have exhausted their diplomatic resources, as it is they have always been lacking in it & are rank amateurs in diplomacy in comparison with the highly skilled & Professional Pakistani diplomats…
The real game has now started- as things unfold, it seems the Mumbai attacks were for the benefit of President elect Mr. Obama, a smart reaction to his ‘Attack Pakistan’ election campaign…let’s await the response.
The real scenario is that the present democratically elected government in Pakistan has little control over the military or the ISI. It is obvious to everyone in the world that the Pakistan military/ISI is actively supporting and breeding terrorism on its soil.
Pakistan is making all this fuss and sensation about increasing its military deployment on its eastern border for very obvious reasons. Firstly it does not want to do anything sincere to dismantle the terrorist inrastructure on its soil. This sensation about military deployment on its border with India will distract international attention from the real issue which is tackling terrorism that is breeding on its soil. And naturally the US and its allies operating in Afghanistan would be concerned about reduction of Pakistani troops on Pakistan’s western border as they are dependent on Pakistan for supplies to their troops.
The US and their allies would have to look for alternate supply routes for their troops. Pakistan is not a dependable ally at all.
To Anup,
Obama’s remarks during the election campaign did not imply to invade Pakistan. His remarks are stretched too far in Pakistan, resulting in a stir in the local media. Obama, most likely, will continue what Mr. Bush is doing, that is actively pursuing critical terrorist targets in Pakistan.
You are right regarding the preparedness of Pakistani establishment. It must have taken months to form a strategy before the Mumbai attacks. The Indian diplomats may appear reactive to a situation, especially in the media, but the tables can be quickly overturned.
Alethia,
You seem to quote some attacks with confidence as if it were done by Hindu militants and encourage people to do their own reserch as if it was confirmed by neutral agencies. Have you done your reserch before claiming it is fairly well documented?.You are merely quoting sections of the islamic media rhetoric of fantasitic theories like that of 9/11 where the US govt itself is supposed to have attached the WTO buildings. The so called samjautha conspiracy is built on quotes made recently by unknown officials of the mumbai ATS (which was later denied) as reported in the Indian media. Few arrests made so far are of islamic militants not hindu militants in that case. There have been arrests made in India recently of hindu individuals for a different bomb blast, even this is suspected to be more politically motivated to pander to the muslim votebanks and to prove that there is Hindu terrorism as well (which eventually can be linked to the opposition). We have to wait and see how the investigations conclude. With election around the corner this is a great way to counter the opposition BJP, which is going after the govt on its failure to stop attacks in indian cities in which mostly hindus have died.
All this has changed since, the indian liberal media (which was giving everyday prime time attention to those arrests) along with the govt got a rude shock with the bombay attack and they ended up looking like fools when the pakistan media avered that these were by hindu militants too. The difference in this case was that one of the pakistani mercenaries was caught alive and is singing much to everyone’s embarassement.
The Very Idea of the existence of Pakistan is based on countering India in every possible sense and way. The only new thing which got added to the existing Doctrines of the state called Pakistan is Terrorism. Its a ‘writing on the wall” that Pakistan has got trapped into(By Musharraf & party) fighting the Taliban along with US, where Taliban itself was created by US and Pakistan, i.e. those who created it, want to eliminate it, which unfortunately is extremely difficult now. Within their hearts Pakistan still wants to keep Taliban alive for their own interests in Afghanistan. The only way, they(Pak Army) could have done it is by diverting the world attention to some other agenda, like the Mumbai Terror attacks. That would serve many purposes, first to say that the Civilian Govt does not have any control and thus assert the Army’s importance. Second to shift their troops away from Taliban and pit them against Indian border. Third ensure the Al-Qaida and Taliban terrorists infiltrate into India under the guidance of their Army cover and thus achieve their long term objective of destabilising India. A fundamentalist state would remain that way for many years, just a handful of countries, even though powerful cant do much. In that too the US has its own limitations, especially after its blunders in Iraq, where it wants to shift the focus onto Afghan issue by pulling along with it, the dis-interested Pak.In my view there is no solution to the problems of Afghanistan, Pakistan, Taliban and Al-Qaida, other than continuously countering them. It is amazing as to how the Pakistan society has mingled so nicely with Taliban and Al-Qaida despite suffering from them on a daily basis, there is no immediate and short term solution to this, it has to be long drawn battle !!
Nikhil, there are tens of such Mumbai attack types, ready-to-use modules with the Pakistani Army, some deadlier ones right in the heartlands of India & indigenous also, there is no dearth of shortage for them, neither is Obama’s remarks overstretched by the Pak Establishments, but well gauged & aptly responded, do you really perceive ‘actively pursuing critical terrorist targets in Pakistan’ to be different from attacking Pakistan? further, although the Indian Diplomats on the contrary are restraining from rhetoric’s & handling the situation with much better maturity compared to 2002, they are handicapped as India is too inconsequential strategically for the US & the west, as compared to Pakistan(Mark my words- ultimately China will emerge from the background)…the tables are turning against India, this is as much as they had the International clout to hold on to…
Dear Alethia,
Please don’t force me to reply.
I thought we had already discussed these issues @ Huffington post.
It seems like you are back to square one.
All this talk of passing on evidence is a sham. India cannot possibly pass on evidence without compromising its sources. It already has a couple of well-documented blow-ups to its credit – one during the Kargil episode stopped India’s monitoring of the Pakistani communications. The other was the arrest of the Kashmiri undercover operative by the Kolkatta police.
India knows very well that Pakistan will not act – in fact it cannot act against the militant organisations. The ISI might have nurtured the various outfits in the beginning, but now the tail is wagging the dog. In the beginning the jihadis needed the ISI. Now the jihadis are dictating terms. So much so that twice, bank accounts of terrorist organisations were frozen after the funds were withdrawn.
So things will carry on as usual. Various Indian (democratically elected) governments will carry on as usual, there willl be more terrorist attacks, infiltration in Kashmir. High-quality fake Indian currency will be printed on the government security presses. There will be more bombings of Shias, the Jihadis wil grow stronger and fight among themselves with better weapons, the Taleban will use better quality acid on girl’s faces.
Because national prestige and honour (and the Swiss account) are more important than some poor woman’s child dying of a simple diarrhea, these things will go on. The people who decide the destiny of their country have their mineral water and their security being paid for by the same mother whose child died unnecessarily. After all, these dirty people breed like flies, so it isn’t much of a loss.
Hi Aleitha,
I agree with your comments.
Pakistan citizens are also victims of terrorists like people living in many other countries of the world. In my opinion some of the “trouble-makers” of the world, has now got name of Pakistan in their log books, and they try to use and take advantage of the same, to achieve their own motives.
People as well as government of Pakistan are target of this same unfortunate phenomena.
Last time in 2002 at time of elections India staged a drama of attack on assembly to win votes. And this time again the indian government is trying to win mass votes by using Mumbai incidence to their advantage.
India is supposed to have one of the largest armies and defence budgets. And despite such large resources what I am unable to understand is that how can just 10 or 12 people take Mumbai city hostage for 60 hours? The last terrorist was able to sustain for 8 hours . Either the terrorists were much more trained than whole Indian commandos and army, OR there is something more under the carpet…..
There exist sheer misconception, and correction is needed in minds of people who tooks media reports as evidence and then start debating and writing articles – Print media is very strong way of communicating ideas and news – but it also require certain responsibility and accountability – which is lacking in various articles posted here. Some very intelligent guys said that half truth is much worse than lies and result in results which no one could even imagine. A sensible author like you should first gather some evidences before saying something which could effect great many people. One thing that you pointed out correctly that after failed attempt to convince US, UK and other western nations, india is now begging for Saudi support, lets what they will reply.
Following points, although pointed out previously, presented here again to refresh your memory:
1) Dawood Ibrahim is an indian and not Pakistani
2) Russia being an oldest ally of india, and envy to Pakistan, will only say the words which are spoon feeded to it.
3) FBI has urged india to bring out the (true) evidences of Pakistani involvement in mumbai attack, and to idnetify balck sheeps among them.
4) Lone surviving terrorist is Hindu, why his wrist band removed from photos which are being showed on various indian media.
5) China said it is as friendly to Pakistan as it was in previous years and ask india to prove its contentions
6) Check out the statistics of 1999 Kargil incident, who went to US and which side had more fatal casualties. Same was the history in 1965. Who supported the separation of Pakistan in 1971. india always have ill-intentions towards Pakistan
7) No corroborative evidence so far has been provided either to Pakistan or anyone in the world to prove involvement of any Pakistani or any muslim in mumbai attack – which were self imposed by india.
8) Another name of india is “Hindustan” which means “land for hindus only”, just think what it would be for other religions. Brutality in Kashmir by indian is on news since 1948.
These are things which i could count on my fingures, there are lot many stories…………
Let’s be clear here that pakistan is a “terrorist state” and never have any illusion that it is going to be any different.We have made a grave blunder by suggesting in the international fora that “Pakistan is also a victim of terror.” We should stop interviewing leaders from that country who mouth the same inanities that “you have not produced any proof.”Let us not fall into the trap of providing proof to the culprits. More than 100 acts/attempts of terror recorded in the world since 9/11 have had their roots in Pakistan. More than 40% of the prisoners in Guantanamo are Pakistanis.
We should categorically, unambiguously, unequivocally boycott Pakistan in all aspects for a decade or more. Pakistan is the only territory in the world where an army has a whole country under its control. The state policy of Pakistan is terrorism and their single-point programme of existence is to destroy India.
Alethia and Peace have betrayed a basic understandiong of the current flaring tensions. Before I begin I will explain the term Hindustan. It is derived from the word Indus and was used to encompass the India subcontinent. Similarly Taiwan is also referred to as ‘Republic of China’. However that hardly means that their writ extends to Guangzhou or Lanzhou. Hope that clears things up and btw you’re welcome. Now, to put things in perspective lets start with the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan. All I can say is that the reason why the Soviets lost the Afghan war was not because of the weapon superiority of the Afghans. No. It would be patenetly erroneous to even assume that. The sanctuary for these Afghan mujahideen was in Pakistan which has now turned into a problem for the rest of the world. The Soviets were NEVER allowed to engage them all the way inside Pakistan. India is now facing the same predicament. And the reason for the escalated tension over the last few days is not just the Mumbai attacks. It is Pakistan’s repetitive insulting of the collective intelligence of the people of the international community. The perpetrators came from Pakistan. Pakistan’s reply to this was that they are not Pakistan nationals. THAT DOES NOT MEAN ANYTHING. They CAME from Pakistan and the infrastructure for launching these attacks is in Pakistan. State Responsibility does not just arise from actively aiding an act, it also comes from passively allowing an act to take place. India has NOT ONCE blamed the government for any complicity in the attacks. It has only blamed the government for not doing enough to extinguish the terrorism apparatus which has been directed at India again and again and again and again and again over the past few decades. That means either a) Pakistan is not doing ANYTHING to curb terrorism and has been paying lip service to dismantle terror networks there, b) Worse, Pakistan has lost control of large swathes of area in its territory and c)Worst of all both option a) and b) combined. Pakistan cannot rely on the nuclear and jihadi card which Musharraf has played ever so adeptly. It’s time for this to end. And time for it come out of denial. It is already a basket case, a rogue nation and recently the Pakistani PM had gone on a begging mission to Saudi Arabia to request the witholding of the US $ 300 million dollars in arrears which they owe for their oil imports.(Source: Economist) A country which is not able to provide its citizens with energy and yet make billion dollar(also through loans which apparently is against the concept of Islam!) purchases for weaponry targeted at indefensible human beings cannot be taken at face value. Pakistan has NO credibility.
Also to Yakub: Calm Down. Talking about Rakhis on the issue of the loss of lives of 180+ people? Wow. You will make a great Pakistan Army chief.
India should attack Pakistan and get the whole issue over and done with.
From: http://businessandstate.blogspot.com/
India’s Options:
1. Do nothing (supporting assumption: Mumbai was a freak incident, and will not be repeated again)
2. Accelerate diplomacy with Pakistan (Assumption: They are willing, capable and ready to collaborate, and the all that is needed to facilitate such collaboration is greater exchange of information and views, and that further attacks will be prevented by this)
3. Work toward a diplomatic isolation of Pakistan (Assumption: Interests inimical to India can be weakened, and those likely to cooperate strengthened by such an isolation, and that further attacks will be prevented by this)
4. Work toward economic-sanctions against Pakistan (Assumption: The state is constitutionally opposed to India’s weal, and the stress of economic isolation will drive reevaluation of institutional and national agenda, and that further attacks will be prevented by this)
5. Carry out surgical operations against terrorists on Pakistani soil (Assumption: The terrorists are well-identified, and isolated within Pakistani territory, that these attacka will deal a blow to their ability to reconstitute, and Pakistani government will not start supporting terrorists. Finally, that this will not lead to a disproportionate response from Pakistan, nor bring down civilian government, and that further Mumbai-like attacks will be prevented by this)
6. Carry out a full fledged invasion of Pakistan (Assumption: India will be able to permanently cripple Pakistan’s ability to threaten India, and prevent Iraq-like instability in its aftermath. That a nuclear war would not ensue, nor will China opportnitstically make advances on Arunachal, etc. All this to prevent Mumbai-like attacks)
From: http://businessandstate.blogspot.com/
In designing such options, and I admit myriad can be made up, we balance the fear that the response will be ineffective (numbers 1 and 2, for example) with the fear that they will be counterproductive (numbers 5 and six possibly)
I think, given current threat level and India’s limitations, options 3. and 4. cited above (diplomatic isolation OR economic sanctions) are the kinds we will want to choose from amongst.
Combining them, we can either
A. Go for maximum wattage, and seek economic sanctions against Pakistan, and demand clear, specific, time-based actions against them
OR
B. Build a case for economics sanctions, by allowing diplomatic isolation to fail
My thinking in all this is that India is faced with a secular discontinuity here– that Mumbai attacks we NOT a one-off incident, but the begining of what will be a sustained campaign against India.
Do you agree? What options will you construct for India?
From: http://businessandstate.blogspot.com/
Myra,
Let’s see on many views:
Pakistan move Army from Afghan Borders to Indian Borders:
Simple, Islamabad is near to “War On Terror” zone, so I would not be surprised if tomorrow we hear that Taliban has occupied Pakistan from Afghan borders to Islamabad. Therefore US and allies can have another Iraq sort of war in Pakistan.
Indians still seeking Diplomatic pressure from world:
Indians have never waged a war in its history, so they are clean towards UNSC. Indians are frustrating Pakistanis to make a first strike so India will have UNSC, US, and India fighting against Pakistan.
In case, Pakistan nukes on India, then the second strike will come from either one of the Big 5 (US, UK, China, Russia) therefore Indians will not and never get a chance to Nuke Pakistan, another clean sheet in UNSC.
US recent visits / talks with India and Pakistan:
US wants to sustain pressure until it moves its extra forces into Afghan border, so that there will be less dependency on Pakistani Army who are playing a double game on War on Terror. Therefore US can simply strike Afghan at borders and make an entry inside Pakistan as Taliban would have moved inside Islamabad by then. US will have full control of Pakistan just like Iraq, when Pakistanis are deeply involved with Indian Army.
Note, this will also stop Terrorists becoming a front-runners supporting Pakistan war on India.
This will also help US presence in Asia, what they desperately wanted to monitor activities of China and Russia to some extent.
I guess it’s all a game of dependencies to take control over Pakistan as its a nuke country with Terrorism, just to safeguard the nuke not going into Terrorists hands.
We have to look out on resilience from China & Russia during this War (if it happens). Note China and Russia too have some big Border disputes, and they are friendly towards Pakistan and India respectively.
Therefore If this War of Terrorists in Pakistan turn out to be another full fledged Indo-Pak War, then other nations involvement would probably lead to WWIII, just for the sake of mere Terrorists.
hersh,
Option#1 is a non-option, it should not have been mentioned at all. Forget it. As I had posted before, not the honorable Sardarji, not the service chiefs, not Sonia Gondhi, not the people of India, no one thinks Mumbai can go unanswered. We simply cannot. We all want India to stay on track focussed on economic prosperity, but it doesn’t mean being sitting duck for Pak terror forever.
Ladies and gentlemen from the “Islamic Republic of Pakistan”
It seems you still think you can lie, spread hatred, extrude platitudes meant for deception. THEY HAVE NOT WORKED, they are not working, and falsehood and hatred will be defeated.
It is the blood oath of 1.2 billion Indians, your sponsorship of terrorism on my motherland will be exposed and punished.
http://www.indianexpress.com/news/destro y-all-terrorist-camps-in-pak-muslims-urg e-govt/403617/
Mumbai: Muslims in Mumbai held a rally on Friday to protest the inaction of Pakistan Government on the Terror outfits operating from its territory after the last month’s Mumbai attacks which killed 179 persons.
Raising voice against Pakistan, the demonstrators urged the Indian government to destroy all terrorist camps operating in Pakistan.
Tension with India has become a new excuse for Pakistan to stop fighting Al Qaeda terrorists on its border with Afghanistan.
A BBC report on Friday said that air strikes against terrorists in Swat and Bajaur areas were scaled back after Pakistan’s jets moved east to the border with India. Ground operations against militants too have been put off.
Pakistan’s actions now are a problem for the world. Military and economic aid have ensured a less than lukewarm response to terrorism. And diplomacy has failed.
Perhaps, it’s time a blend of diplomatic and military means was used.
For starters, the definition of terrorism could be expanded to include the act of states not fighting known terrorists. Pakistan could be handed a list of tasks with deadlines. Failure to execute them could be followed by automatic use of force to take out terrorists in Pakistan by an international force. The vehicle for this task could be a series of interlinked UN resolutions with well-defined trigger points that enable automatic use of military force after diplomacy is given one last chance.
The capture of one of the ten Mumbai terrorists has been a disaster for Pakistan. The captured terrorist talked, and his information checked out, and made it clear that Pakistan was tolerating Islamic terrorist groups operating openly inside Pakistan. This is nothing new, but such dramatic proof is.
The U.S., the UN and most other major countries put the pressure on Pakistan to do something about this, or risk being officially branded a pro-terrorist state. Pakistan responded to that pressure in the last week by arresting several senior terrorist leaders known to be operating in Pakistan.
But Pakistan refused to allow India to take these terrorists. That’s because if these guys began talking, they would confirm Pakistan’s long term support of Islamic terrorist activities. These are admissions that Pakistan does not want to deal with.
Nevertheless, Pakistan has long been known as a supporter of Islamic terrorists, even though some of these terrorist organizations are trying to kill Pakistani leaders. That is a rather recent development, which came about after September 11, 2001, when the Pakistani leadership were forced to decide between backing the war on terror, or siding with the terrorists. At that point, some Islamic terrorists began attacking Pakistani leaders. But others, like those responsible for the Mumbai attacks (Lashkar e Toiba) did not support the overthrow of the Pakistani government (at least not right away), and continued to be protected by the government.
Pakistan is being forced into a corner, where the choices come down to civil war with their Islamic conservatives and radicals (about a third of the population), or war with India, which could escalate into a nuclear conflict that Pakistan would lose.
The civil war would be messy, but the government would almost certainly win it. Pakistani politicians, being risk averse, are looking for some way out of this mess. There doesn’t seem to be one.
Truth about suicide bomber. Pakistani ISI recruits terminally ill (cancer and aids) young people as suicide bomber. They promise great wealth for the family behind.
Verification of evidence is crucial if there is to be intelligence-sharing between India and Pakistan on the Mumbai massacre. And I maintain that an independent agency should be employed to help India and Pakistan get to the bottom of who is responsible.
The following article illustrates the sad kaleidoscope of intrigue and mistrust surrounding India, Pakistan and Kashmiris in relation to finding out who were the perpetrators of a most brutal terrorist attack at Chittisinghpura in March of 2000. The article is from the New York Times called “A Kashmiri Mystery” by Barry Bearak:
http://www.nytimes.com/library/magazine/ home/20001231mag-kashmir.html
India and Pakistan need a detailed and comprehensive Terrorism Treaty. At the end of the day, the ISI, the Pak Military and Madrassas must stop manufacturing state sponsored terrorism.
If Pakistan can agree to such a treaty and keep up its end of the bargain, there is no problem.
Pakistan should be given every opportunity to keep itself honest. The written word, if kept will bring peace. If broken, it will lead to annihilation of Pak.
http://ibnlive.in.com/news/india-opens-i ts-doors-for-sick-pak-child/81444-3.html
I do admit that I was mistaken in my 1st posting concerning the responsibility of the Chittisinghpura terrorist attack. I apologize. There still is no definitive answer on who exactly is responsible.
The prayer that I have is that India and Pakistan would please fight this scourge of terrorism together.
And my specific dream is one where the common people meet eachother at the borders of the two countries and the millions embrace eachother en masse in fraternal reconciliation…