Biden in Pakistan: Where’s the baseline?

January 9, 2009

U.S. Vice President-elect Joe Biden held talks in Pakistan as part of a regional tour expected to focus on terrorism and tensions between Pakistan and India following the Mumbai attacks.

Before he left the United States, Biden, travelling in his capacity as outgoing chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, told reporters that “What I hope to accomplish is to get sort of a baseline. This will be my God knows how many trips, I guess my 10th or 11th trip into Iraq and I don’t know how many times in Afghanistan and Pakistan,” Politico quoted him as saying.

Pakistan’s Dawn newspaper said on its website that President Asif Ali Zardari “apprised Biden of Pakistan’s commitment and the measures being taken by the government in the war against militancy, extremism and terrorism”.  Biden in turn described Pakistan as “an incredibly valued U.S. ally”, according to the Associated Press of Pakistan.

But what about those attacks by U.S. Predator drones on targets on Pakistan’s border with Afghanistan which have fuelled anti-American anger and been condemned by Islamabad as a violation of its sovereignty? President-elect Barack Obama has been a strong advocate of unilateral U.S. attacks, saying during his election campaign that “If we have actionable intelligence about high-level al Qaeda targets in Pakistan’s border region, we must act if Pakistan will not or cannot.”

Not only did the controversy over drone missile strikes seem to be given little attention – at least in the Pakistani media – but shortly before Biden arrived in Pakistan, a U.S. counterterrorism official announced that al Qaeda’s operations chief in Pakistan and a top aide were believed to have been killed in South Waziristan. The official declined to discuss how or when the men died, but a suspected U.S. drone strike in South Waziristan killed three foreign fighters on New Year’s Day, intelligence agents in Pakistan said at the time. U.S. forces in Afghanistan carried out about 30 missile strikes in Pakistan in 2008, according to a Reuters tally, mostly since the beginning of September.

Operations chief Usama al-Kini was thought responsible for the bombing of a Marriott hotel in Islamabad that killed 55 people in September. Kini and his dead lieutenant, Sheikh Ahmed Salim Swedan, were on the FBI’s list of most wanted terrorism suspects and had been indicted for the 1998 bombings of U.S. embassies in Tanzania and Kenya.
 
The Washington Post quoted Bruce Hoffman, a terrorism expert and Georgetown University professor, as saying that the CIA’s tactics appeared to be cutting dramatically into al Qaeda’s top ranks on the Pakistan border. ”It is a stunning testament of the accuracy of intelligence that the United States is obtaining,” Hoffman said. “Either we have built up an impressive network of sources that facilitates such precision targeting, or the Pakistani authorities are cooperating big-time.”
 
So where is the baseline Biden said he was looking for in Pakistan? A tacit understanding that the drone attacks can continue while being publicly condemned? Or was there a deliberate choice to avoid controversy before the Obama administration has even taken office and at a time when Pakistan faces pressure from both the United States and India to crack down on Islamist militants?
(Photos: Vice President-elect Joe Biden arrives for talks in Islamabad; tribesmen in Pakistan’s border areas)        

 

56 comments

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If you have noticed, pakistan is housing 3 types of terrorists..
1.) The Afganistan Taliban and alqaeda – Foreign fighters
2.) The pakistan Taliban and alqaeda
3.) The Jem, Let fighters – the pakistans self creation to fight India.

So far US has been forcing pakistan to fight the 1st and 2nd type by all means of diplomacy and aids, but pakistan has acted only on foreign fighters but declines to touch on the local taliban and alquaeda for the fear of massive civil war with in pakistan. So the US drone attacks cannot stop until pakistan starts to act on type 2 terrorits.
US after mumbai realized that its war on terror cannot end with out finishing off all 3 types of terrorists. Hence the pakistan is ally to US and the base line he is talkng about would be anybodys guess..If pakistan continues to show tardiness to act on all 3 types of terrorists after the base line it would be converted to another Iraq/afganistan.

Posted by Om | Report as abusive

Vice-Pres elect Joe Biden is a friend of Pakistan. In an Obama administration he will be a voice of support for Pakistan. Having an experiences of decades in Senate Foreign relations committe, in his debates and speeches he has repeatedly advocated strong cultural, economic, education links and assistance to Paksitan. Pakistan’s strategic relationship with the US spanning over five decades will be further strengthened. Although Joe Biden has strong ties to Israel as well, it is very signifact that he has a positive outlook as far as Pakistan is concerned.
As for drone attacks, Pakistan Air Force chief of staff recently commented Pakistan has the capability to shoot down intruding drones. It is up to the government to decied to deal with the situation diplomatically or by force. As with friends or even brothers, there can be differences. But Pak-US friendship is strong enough to overcome these minor irritants. The main objective is to rid the tribal region from extremist anti-Pakistan elements. Pakistan Army, NATO forces and US military along with the Afghans are working on the same objective. In short US strategic goals/objectives are commonly shared by Pakistan.

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive

‘Pakistan Air Force chief of staff recently commented Pakistan has the capability to shoot down intruding drones. It is up to the government to decied to deal with the situation diplomatically or by force.’– Umair
—In short Zardari is six months away from the hangman’s noose…

Posted by Anup | Report as abusive

Sure, the drone attacks by US army are very unpopular in Pakistan. But let’s look at what type of activities are very popular in Pakistan.

India has just released phone conversations of pakistani terrorists in Mumbai talking to the Pak army handlers at the other end in Karachi directing them who to kill.

“I have a Singaporean, Chinese and Belgian”. Pak army handler in Karachi says kill them but spare the two muslims.

Think about this. This type of terrorist activity is very popular in Pakistan unlike the drone attacks. Why should the civilized world be worried about what is popular with Pakis??

Soon afer the Mumbai terrorist attacks, jihadi terrorist outfits met with the Pak army at the GHQ at publicly declared their support for Pak army.

Thinking Pak army will fight Taliban is fantasy. It ain’t going to happen. It is for the American ppl to decide how much money and lives they want to spend on this drama

Victor
Leave the civilized world alone, India by no means can claim itself to be part of civilized world. A country ruled by Hindu elite and hindu fanatics who oppress dalit low caste hindus can never be part of civilized world. Pakistan Army and its links to terrorists? yes suck it up.
Anup, President Zardari being the President of Pakistan is technically the supreme commander of the three armed forces of Pakistan including the air force. Remeber in 2002 during height of tension between India and Pakistan, a Pakistani F-16 shot down an Indian drone, made by Israeli Aircraft Industries (IAI) and operated by India. Air Weapons Complex in Wah, Pakistan already manufactures Pakistan’s own drones. Pakistan has experience dealing with such technology. So you too SUCK IT UP. This is Pakistan , not Afghanistan not Iraq.

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive

Ali writes “As for drone attacks, Pakistan Air Force chief of staff recently commented Pakistan has the capability to shoot down intruding drones”.

Pakistan HAS the ability to shoot down American drones. What Pakistan DOES NOT HAVE is NOT BEGGING the same Americans for money and to bail out.

Hmm……And some examples for “Hindu fanatics” are AK Antony, Manmohan Singh, Sonia Gandhi…

And the most respected member of the civilized world is…..hmmm….”Pakistan”

Pakistan is not Iraq or Afghanistan. Not yet. But on the way.

And who is doing the “sucking it up” to the steady stream of US senators, state dept, US military officials visiting Islamabd. LOL!!!

@Umair
if you want to refute victor’s insinuation that pakistan is uncivillized nation, couter the argument not the source. Attacking the source will only reinforce his insinuation.

coming to subject under discussion. I agree that possibly the baseline is US to continue its drone attacks in pakistan and Paki govt, though publicly criticizing it, turn a blind eye to it.

Posted by chirkut | Report as abusive

Chirkut
What credibility Victor has, being an ignorant uninformed Indian blogger commenting on this blog. I have no interest in offering my comments in response to his labelling Pakistan as uncivilized. The entire civilized world keep their diplomatic missions in Islamabad and send their diplomats to pakistan and same is the case reciprocally. Now it is for the world, not India alone to judge the extent to which Pakistan is an civilized or uncivilized country.
SO YOU TOO CHIRKUT “SUCK IT UP”. Same is the advise to all Idiots. Oops!! sorry Indians!

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive

Biden discusses India, extremism with Zardari
ISHFAQULLAH SHAWL (BUSINESS RECORDER-PAKISTAN)

ISLAMABAD (updated on: January 10, 2009, 03:30 PST): The US Vice-President-elect, Joseph Biden, on Friday asked Pakistan and India to cooperate with each other to eradicate the menace of terrorism from the region. During the meeting with President Asif Ali Zardari here, he said that the two countries should work together for elimination of terrorism.

Prime Minister, Yousaf Raza Gilani, Foreign Minister, Shah Mahmood Qureshi, Pakistan’s Ambassador to US Hussain Haqqani and US Ambassador to Pakistan Anne Patterson were also present. Biden is heading a five-member US delegation, and prominent among them are Senators John Kerry and Lindsay Graham.

He lauded the steps taken by Pakistan after the Mumbai terror attacks, saying that the US would boost bilateral ties with Islamabad in diversified fields. He said that the new US administration believes in having a long-term and broad-based commitment with Pakistan with the objective to support its stability and strengthen democracy.

“The United States of America is positive in terms of assisting Pakistan as it is an important ally and partner to US in war against terrorism”, he said. The current situation prevailing in South Asia, particularly after Mumbai attacks of November 26, which heightened the tension between the two neighbours, came under discussion during the meeting.

The two sides also discussed Pak-US bilateral relations and stressed the need for a long-term relationship, besides the situation in Afghanistan and the region. President Zardari warned that any escalation in Indo-Pak tension might harm the war on terror in the region.

He called upon the US to play an effective role in resolving the longstanding Kashmir issue, saying that durable peace in the region would only be possible if Kashmir dispute was resolved as per the wishes of the Kashmiri people. Zardari informed the visiting US official that Pakistan is working on a multi-pronged policy to counter extremism and terrorism from its soil, and wants peaceful relations with all its neighbours, including India.

He declared that Pakistan is committed to unveil the culprits of Mumbai terrorist attacks. He apprised the US team about the commitment of Pakistan in international war against terrorism and the measures taken by the government to eliminate terrorism and extremism from the region.

He informed the US leader about his recent successful visit to Afghanistan, saying that during the visit the two neighbouring countries had signed a joint declaration, with the resolve to pool efforts against terrorism. He said Pakistan believed in peace and stability in Afghanistan, as a stable Afghanistan is in the interest of Pakistan.

It is pertinent to note that as senator, Joseph Biden was co-sponsor of the landmark Biden-Kerry-Lugar legislation for expanding socio-economic assistance of $15 billion ($1.5 billion annually) including non-military aid over the next five fiscal years besides advocating an additional $7.5 billion over subsequent five years.

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive

SO YOU TOO CHIRKUT “SUCK IT UP”. Same is the advise to all Idiots. Oops!! sorry Indians

— was that very civilized Umair?? didnt you just prove the point.

This is a international forum, please remember you represent your country act accordingly, the same goes for the rest.

Posted by belligerent | Report as abusive

@umair
What civility are you talking about here, in the context of Pak –
1) Pak exhorts, plans, trains and executes terrorism against neighbours and kafirs around the world
2) It teaches its kids hatred and intolerance against others
3) It has always had Govts which lie not only to the world but also to Pakis themselves
4) It gets hold of nuclear technology by begging, borrowing and stealing and to top it all, it proliferates the technology and makes noises about using it against neighbours
5) It wants to steal its neighbour’s land and cannot sleep peacefully until it takes over Kashmir
6) It is a country that sits on the occupied lands of Balochistan, Occupied Kashmir etc
7) It is a country that is the creator of the demon Taliban which can’t even stand girls schools
Pakistan is a tiny uncivilized monkey like brute and needs to be handled as such.

“India and Pakistan should cooperate to eradicate terrorism in the region” – Joe Biden

Gog for you Joe. We, Indians are all ears.
Let us see who in Pakistan we need to cooperate with -
1) Zardari and Gilani? The heads of Govt who took more than 40 days to agree Kasab is a Paki? and that too who get rid of Pak NSA for saying so?
2) The Paki army? The same army which has dismemberment of India as its Vision 2020? The same army which waged war against India 4 times? The same army which killed millions of Bangladeshi Hindus, checking to make sure that they are not Hindus by looking inside their loin cloths?
3) The ISI? the same intelligence agency which actively works on the thousand cuts to be inflicted on India by terrorism?
4) Paki public? the same public who are taught in schools that India and Hindus are their prime enemies? the same public who can’t even resist Taliban from closing their girls schools? the same public who revere Bollywood films because of Muslim actors?

Kindly enunciate Joe, which murders should we cooperate with.

Hima Bindu,

Dude, switch to decaf.

Posted by indian1127 | Report as abusive

Umair
LOL, such praises of MR.10%, you’ll surely be the next NSA of Papistan..oops

Posted by Anup | Report as abusive

belligerent- (loudmouth)– Duck! there’s a American drone coming…c’mon cowboys flush them out!

Posted by Anup | Report as abusive

PAKISTAN IS GOING TO ASIA’S SOMALIA

India and US should just stop trying to correct Pakistan, just keep on bombing them using drones, in few years, we will see Pakistan Taliban taking over govt…. That’s the solution to all problems of terrorism…. Then Afghanistan and Pakistan will start fighting among themselves…. and not concentrate on Kashmir or western world.

Posted by Suresh | Report as abusive

Al-Qaeda leader Pervez Musharaff is going to USA, to do some lobbying.

Things are going to get a lot worse for the Pakistan Army.

India was until recently willing to provide some cover for the Pakistan army which planned and executed the Mumbai massacre. The way out would have been to just expose Lashkar-e-Toiba terrorists, and pretend as if the Pakistan army and ISI had nothing to do with the massacre. This is not easy anyways because LET is the jihadi wing of Pakistan army, and not an independent entity. The window for this possibility has evaporated because of the obscurantist attitude displayed by Gen Kayani so far.

India and US are now obliged to completely expose Pakistan army.

The idea was to provoke India to mobilize troops, thus enabling Pakistan army to give an excuse nott to fight Taliban on the Afghan border. India and USA worked together and have denied this opportunity to Gen Kayani.

When the dust settles, after Pakistan army is completely exposed people throughout the word- this will include the people of India and Pakistan- will realize Al-Qaeda and Pakistan army are one and the same.

Al-Qeda also know as Pakistan army is the enemy of the people of both Pakistan and India.

It has come time for India to end ALL ties with Pakistan.

All we get is a pathologically destructive pattern of lies, double speaking, non-state actors, corrupt leaders, hatred, madrassa educated terrorists, Pak Military/ISI truces with terrorists, incoherent government, plausible denials, never answering the questions and always deflecting, blaming others for all their problems and being defiant in the face of evidence, elaborate conspiracy stories, ex-military/ISI officials training terrorists

…the list goes on and on…..

Pakistan has nothing but shame written all over it. Why should we believe any thing you guys say anymore? You never act in good faith and are untrustworthy.

You words are cheap and mean nothing. Action, India wants action from Pakistan.

You want good faith, you want cricket? Give us Daewood and and all the other criminals and terrorists we want. Otherwise we want nothing to do with you.

We have every right to defend ourselves against your supposed non-state or non-agency terrorists.

Pakistan is a failed terrorist state and is staring into the abyss. The entire world sees that but Pakistan does not.

It is much too dangerous for the security of the world to let Pakistan exist as a state. The world needs to devise a serious method to disarm Pakistan and then disintegrate it.

All non-state actors such as the Madrassas, Terrorist-hate mosques, the Pak Military, the ISI should be systematically destroyed and removed for good. This will require 10million troops on the ground, from the UN, UK, USA, and INDIA and all the UN member countries. Then this land should return under British rule until the population has been secularized and modernized

Only then will the people there understand what it has been like living in a hate filled propaganda mental prison.

The modern age will only come to Pakistan once it people abandon the culture of hate, lying and deobandism.

It is also very sad to see the USA is not challenging Pakistan’s internal belief systems, ie Cadets trained to kill Hindus, Pak Military indoctrinated to make India’s dismemberment its goal…this are all part of Pakistan’s training guides for soldiers.

It is so sad that Pakistan is so full of hate.

Posted by Global Watcher | Report as abusive

Victor & Umair:

It’s infair to paint either India or Pakistan as uncivilized. They are both basically civilized countries. Very civilized countries. But we will get into semantics on this matter if we push this point too far.

But I can tell you with some surety who I think is uncivilized in both countries. Here are some examples:

In Pakistan, uncivilized are the Jirga council members of a village in Baluchistan who passed a resolution to throw 2 girls to their deaths in front of dogs because they dared to chose their marriage partners (with the consent of their mothers). Relatedly,uncivilized is a Pakistani MP who brushed the incident off as being part of the “culture” of Baluchistan province.

In India, uncivilized was the complicity of the police in the state of Gujarat while 1,500 Muslims were slaughtered in barbaric fashion in 2002.

Since I am an American, I’ll give you an example of uncivilized behavior in the USA.

Uncivilized is the passing of a resolution in our Congress in full support of Israel while they are in the process of massacring 100′s of innocent Palestinian civilians in Gaza.
(Anup, you asked me about this, so here’s your answer).

Posted by Alethia | Report as abusive

Lashkar-e-Taiba is 100,000 percent under the control of Pakistan army.

The latest spin, feeble attempt from Pak army/ ISI and their propagandists is that Lashkar-e-Taiba is a pan-Islamist terrorist outfit. THIS IS A JOKE!!!! People in the know are not going to buy this nonsense. LET is the jihadi terrorist wing of Pakistan army. During Kargil war in 1999, LET terrorists maintained combat positions until Pakistan army can replace them with “regular” troops.

Pakistan army has ensured the failure of Pakistan as a state. India’s progress has been a tremendous source of envy for Pak army/ISI establishment. This is the reason behind attacks on Indian Institute of Science, Bangalore, attacking India’s financial capital and so on.

Seeking out and killing American, British and other westerners in Mumbai, executing Jewish people in Mumbai are all part of this DRAMA to create an illusion this is Pan-Islamist Al-Qaeda operation and NOT an operation by Pakistan army/ ISI.

I think people in both India & Pakistan are great, but both are victims of some very bad and corrupt governance. Now in India, political leaders are realising that, what people need is a good, responsible and accountable governance, that’s the reason India is gradually emerging as a global power. Pakistani people are hard working and brilliant, but democracy has always been throttled by power hungry military dictators. Zia ul Haq’s & Musharraf’s have done an irreparable damage to a country, which otherwise had a great future.

Posted by Vinu Nam | Report as abusive

Alethia,
You ARE funny. ?

Some one from Pakistan- a religious exclusivist country, a country which is global source for religion based terrorism criticizing the failures of a largely successful secular democracy is a non-starter. You and Pakistan haven’t convinced anyone in the world.

Overwhelming majority of Indians reject people belonging to one religion inflicting physical violence and death on ppl of other religion, whether it happened in Gujarat or Kashmir. One doesn’t justify another. Any such violence undermines/d the very concept of India.

Having said that, I see you have a headcount of Indian citizens who died in Gujarat, but I bet you wouldn’t bother to do headcounts on Christian, Sikh, Hindu and Muslim Indians killed by Pakistani terrorists in Mumbai, Delhi, Ahmedabad, Kashmir, Varanasi, Jaipur……..

Here is a verbatim quote from the “constituition” of “Pakistan” : “Only a Muslim could be qualified for election as President (male only) and Prime Minister (male or female).”

Your (feeble) attempts to project India and Pakistan are aboout the same would convince any one in the world if the following were the case:

(1) Pakistan had stayed a secular republic and not the “Islamic Republic” as it is with constitution which declares only a muslim can become president.(and only a man ?)

(2) Pakistan has a 15% Hindu population in its current territory and India pretends to be a defender and champion for the Pakistani Hindus

(3) If only there are Hindu missile scientists in Pakistan, if only Pakistan had Hindu Commander-in-chief of its armed forces, if only Pakistan had a Christian defence minister, if only the most popular movie stars in Pakistan happen to be Hindus, if only Pakistan had a Hindu cricket captain, if only 3 out of 11 members in its cricket team are Hindus, the list is long

Since none of the above applies, UR CASE DISMISSED.?

p.s interacting with you is futile. If Pakis had been in touch with reality, Pakistan wouldn’t be here today. I’m only posting the above for the benefit of any neutral visitors.

Victor:

There are good and bad people in India and Pakistan as there are in every other country of the world.

I denounce terrorism wherever it may occur including against innocent civilians of Hindu, Muslim, Sikh, Christian or Jewish people.

I am not a walking encyclopedia that I can point to all terrorist attacks with all statistics on all incidents. I was just giving some examples.

Your sole aim apppears to be to show that all Pakistanis are evil.

That is simply a ludacris postion to take. The good and evil in a society is always a mixed bag.

You can’t expect rational people to take you seriously.

The only thing that stands out about your position is that you are rabidly anti-Pakistani no matter what.

Posted by Alethia | Report as abusive

By the way Victor:

I certainly do give India credit for, among other things, that it has a secular democracy where anyone from any religion can hold the highest office. I have previously stated that in one of these columns on Reuters.

And yes, it would be better if Pakistan were to become just as secular.

But to paint everyone in Pakistan with such a broad brush is not correct.

Have you ever spoken to any Pakistanis in person?

Posted by Alethia | Report as abusive

Alethia, I have worked with dozens of Pakistanis. When it comes to religion, pakistan politics and India, they are not rational people. They believe that they have an entitlement to re-rule India once again and that is a fact my latte liberal dear. Starbucks will not let you see the reality here, for some reason.

You defend those who had a reprehensible past and currently a reprehensible present. You do not understand lying and duping kaffirs like you is justified in the Qu’ran to further any cause.

They generally view Hindus, their religion, their culture, history and country as far inferior to Islam, not to mention that they despise the Hindu religion and wish it extinction. I don’t think any Pak or Hindu here would disagree with that point of view, as the mosque is equally a place of politics and religion.

That is the fact, we are kaffirs and they have a superiority complex.

Your kind and gentle naive welcome will be the undoing as well as yours one day. Be careful from those who you so easily defend and trust.

Some people are either at your feet or at your throat.

Posted by Global Watcher | Report as abusive

Biden’s baseline is likely as follows:

Despite all the aid/bribes and soft-approach, US has not persuaded Pakistan to stop using terrorism as a policy tool

The next 9/11 is likely to come from Pakistan

Pakistan’s Generals say anything to satisfy the US but their actions are always to preserve the terror option

Pakistan’s civilian government has only provided cover for Generals to get back to their old games.

Posted by Rajat | Report as abusive

Alethia
— Gujarat was a law & order problem, triggered by a similiar act of violence, albeit unjustifiable, yet justice is being done & the law of the land taking it’s rightful course, — but America & Pakistan are built on the blood of innocents (Americans have conveniently forgotten the genocide of 90 million innocent natives, a massacre of a complete highly advanced, peaceful, progressive race, perpetrated by their barbaric European inquisionists forefathers,& the leftovers who still live converted , yet in pathetic human conditions)
Pakistan on the bodies of a million innocent mostly children & women,, do both these qualify as ‘civilizations’ is this the foundation of these two ‘cultures’ if they can be termed so, finally, Is there something called the’ Law of Nature’?

Posted by Anup | Report as abusive

Victor n Anup and few other idiots sorry idnians that seem to have lot of time to write their Anti Pakistan/Islam views (I wonder if any call center has closed down) these idiots have so much time to Paki bash!

“Gujarat was a law & order problem, triggered by a similiar act of violence, albeit unjustifiable, yet justice is being done & the law of the land taking it’s rightful course”

This is what you wrote victor, no one has been brought to justice bal thakray or the home minister of Gujrat or any securty or plice for being mere soectators whilst hindus were raping, burning n murdering innocent indian (Muslim) civilians?

What about your indian military man who planned the bombing of pakistani civilians on samjuta train? No idea oh sorry the land of the law is taking care lol…. what law of the land where murderers walk freely in the street like the perperators of hidious crime of killing mulsims in Gujrat.

What secular India? The rubbish you talk about “KAFIR” you are one! and I am a “MUSLIM” nad PROUD to be. Not like some people always complaining oh the Muslim want to rule us oh they want to kill us. If we did Anup/Victor all the Muslim rulers who ruled India and I dont need to mention any ask your dad or your grandparent they will tell u.

If they wanted to could have converted all you idol worshippers but Islam is not to be imposed. Infact Islam spread in the continent through sufism and even to this day hindus/sikhs go to Ajhmeri sharif in India to ask for their wishes and vise versa.

But people like you I think run the hindu fanatic schools, personlay I think you have a internet cafe where all Pak bashers get a chance to put their point of view cross. But carry on it simply shows how stupid, inhuman, biased and useless idiots sorry indians are.

By the way land of law, what you have in Indian we have in Pakistan too so the guy who attcxaked bombay if he is a pakistani which he is pass him over. We will try him in the land of pakistan lol..

You ignorant fools sorry idiots na indians!!!

Posted by Ali | Report as abusive

Global watcher – I think you should become Gujrat watcher or even Kashmir or even Orrisa watcher and keep your government informed on what is hapening. But then there are already enough hindus fanatics doing that.

Pakistan is there to stay and the dream of every hindu who want to see Greater India go to HELL!!! or simply cross the border and we will send you free of charge!!!

If your countries security is in the hands of people that are incompetent, would not even taken notice from even the amerricans who even warned indian that a attck was being planed… Why no action were taken?

Now for the indian government to get away with anything just start finger poining…seems easier way out especilay with elcetion so close. Your leaders can only make you fools not us so go to hell and elect few that care for you just like cross the border.

I see all this barking by senless idiots I say to you and all indians — DOGS BARK N CARRY ON BARKING N CARAVANS MOVE ON — So all DIOTS go to HELL!!!

All the idiots who think Pakistan will fonish off the map or be a Somalia. We I dont know why that makes you idiots happy becuaes once if ever your wildest dream do come true– I personaly feel sorry for the kos the same Taliban will turn their attention to you.

Posted by Ali | Report as abusive

I can imagine a Taliban with RPG up an indians arse lol.

You should be thankfull that

Posted by Ali | Report as abusive

To Ali:

I will advise to stop saying rude things to the Indian commenters here.

It’s very incorrect to use such rude language so I am requsting that you stop.

Posted by Alethia | Report as abusive

Global Watcher:

I beieve in forgiveness and reconciliation among people of different religions, ethnic groups and national origins.

Perhaps I am naive, as you mentioned. But if naive means Trust, means Vishwas, means Iman, means Love, then that’s where I want to be.

Posted by Alethia | Report as abusive

Comments offered here by both sides is indicative of why south Asia is what it is today. Poverty, huger, discrimination, hatred, lack of common sense and above all just foolish attitude. Bring some sanity in your behavior and look for and present realistic solutions. You all are in the same boat and will sink together if you keep up this ….

Posted by Truth | Report as abusive

Alethia,
Are you moderating this blog? Why are you not allowing my previous post but you are responding with a different fake name “Truth”.Is this your Pakistani style democracy?- Victor

alethia…..

How can you have a logical debate when most of the indians are sorry idiots are brainwashed, spoon fed by STARNEWS and do not have a capacity to think outside the box.

I wonder why arnt they asking why their government failed to protect the civilians?

Why didnt the Indian government take action even though they were warned of theses attacks?

Why dont they ask r go n see what is hapening in kashmir instead of installing pro delhi puppet regimes?

Why dont they ask their leaders why havnt the perpatators of Gujrat massacre NOT been brought to justice? is because they were Muslims n muslims life dont have any value of their life?

Why did the head of anti terrorism specialy the guy who was investigating the case of the x indian military coward who attacked inncoent civilains on the samjuta trains?

Sort your own house out first then start finger wagging because Pakistanis can take criticism and yes everything is not rosy on this side as on their side. I also understand due to 60years of both countries n wars there is lot of mistrust but that does NOT mean we can sit intabel and solve our problems. That will only happen once India neogciates on equal terms becaause bullying is NOT going to get them anywhere.

My apologies for the re-marks but if you read the idiots re-marks, I think they are the answers or agument they are loooking for! war mongers!!!

Posted by Ali | Report as abusive

I see that the off-topic posts are still going on. I gave up posting here a few weeks ago, but came back to see how things were. On many other blogs that talk of India (on our economy, Chinese rivalry, politics, religious tensions, etc), it was pretty sad to see that my fellow-Indians were not just off-topic but embarrassingly childish. But at some level I’m happy to see this blog if only for the reason that the Pakistani posters make us look rather good in comparison. For that reason alone, viva il Pakistan!

I wonder if Myra ever gets the urge to close this circus down and write on something else.

Posted by Vijai | Report as abusive

Ali:

I am glad that you have apologized for the abusive language you used toward the Indian commenters. Thank you.

Posted by Alethia | Report as abusive

Myra,

You ask, “So where is the baseline Biden said he was looking for in Pakistan?”

For the next few years, the Obama-Biden administration will adopt any strategy – cash, weapons & playing big brother for Pakistan – that will keep the Paki army on Pakistan’s western border. All this without disturbing the charade of civilian democracy in Pakistan will be the baseline, according to me, that Biden will be looking for in next few years. No wonder, it is often said that the ISI wags the dog (the US) by its tail.

You ask, “A tacit understanding that the drone attacks can continue while being publicly condemned?”

Despite public condemnation, the Pakistani government wants to establish its writ on the country’s western border; something which it has failed in doing for over 60 years. If the US, the great Satan in the eyes of the Pashtuns, is doing it by itself, it is all good. In addition, if the US is doling out cash to the ISI/army to keep quiet, the merrier!

You ask, “Was there a deliberate choice to avoid controversy before the Obama administration has even taken office and at a time when Pakistan faces pressure from both the United States and India to crack down on Islamist militants?”

May be there was an attempt to avoid controversy. But India, or South Asia, is not going to benefit from the ongoing pest control on Pakistan’s western border. The ISI – which crafts Pak’s foreign policy – sees terrorist outfits such as LeT/JuD as assets. They will not be touched. It’s here where the US policy is at odds with the India.
The Obama-Biden administration will indirectly strengthen the ISI and the military in its efforts to find normalcy in Afghanistan. If that happens, it’ll be déjà vu; back to the 1980′s. It also means the terror groups like LeT, JuD and others will derive more strength to carry deeper terrorist strikes into India.

Posted by Nikhil | Report as abusive

Vijay:

I’m glad to see that you are back. Yours is a truly refreshing voice.

Posted by Alethia | Report as abusive

I wanted to ask my Indian friends here..who think India is doing the right thing my using just diplomacy post mumbai..
1.) Do you think Obama after assuming office will cut down all funds to pakistan since he is a thinking spender ??
2.) Do you think pakistan will ever dismantle its terror machine all by itself ? if India or US do not act on it by force ??
3.) where do you think is the base line for India ? after which it can think of military affensive on pakistan is unavoidable or only way to chain this mad dog ??
4.)Do you think pakistan is true this time when it says its army are really fighting the taliban ?? because all I get to read is pakistan army today takesover an village in NWFP and tomorrow the taliban re-captures it and loots all weapons and ammuniton stored in check posts and police station and also kidnaps police to get some other terrorrist out of pakistani jail. I see this as a game played by pakistan to supply taliban with weapons and ammunition to attack US forces in afganistan.
5.) Do you think US is/was ever willing to help Indian cause after mumbai ?? especially when US ambasidor Mulford and Biden seems to make statements like pakistan is the best US ally in the world ?? Dont say FBI support..because there is no significant action on ground in pakistan till date to contain terror.

Posted by Om | Report as abusive

Om
The question is not whether we should strike Pakistan, but when we should strike to cripple the traitors, once & for all, this time— the time is not ripe yet, so patience, further, no, Obama cannot afford not funding Pakistan, nor can America presently & also in the near future genuinely side India over Pakistan, Pakistan is a terrorist state, so dismantling terrorism there is equivalent to dismantling Pakistan, India must have a broad & deep baseline,

Posted by Anup | Report as abusive

Since mumbai incident, india and its people start barking on Pakistan and providing false evidences about involvement of Pakistan, whether state or non-state actors. Yesterday indian news channel “NDTV” showed the items recovered from boats supposedly used by so-called terrorist, in all items there was mention that “Made in Pakistan”, to my amaze they showes one pistol where it is written “Daimond.Made in Peshawar” What a funny story and they want world to believe that. Let suppose that mumbai attack was not planned by india, then do you expect such highly trained, professional and killing machines to do such things that they bring things which were all marked as “Made in Pakistan”.
What is really happening? – for india it is the right time to get away from Pakistan, the strongest and the only threat to india, not only in armed infrastructure but also in economic terms, Obama will soon start taking decision, so before he could learn about indian politics, india will go to him and beg for safety from Pakistan. Obama, being gentlemen, will have soft corner if india could prove that Pakistan is supporting terrorist activities. But india forgets that success lies only in truth and truth is that PAKISTAN is a peace loving, and a responsible country and it can safe-guard its asset without any help.
People who suggest us – One True nation, PAKISTAN – to stop commenting on idiots commentators, just tell what india is doing with us, the whole indian nation is disgracing, insulting and humiliating Pakistan, its politians, leaders and other citizen. I had never commented before my visit on this site, but after seeing abusive comments by idiots to my country, I stand up to defend my country, my nation and my fellow citizen. And as i commented two weeks ago me, umair and other Pakistani have succeeded in debate with idiots only because we said truth only and no false stories as idiots did and still doing.

Posted by Peace | Report as abusive

Hi Anup,
@”the time is not ripe yet, so patience, further, no, Obama cannot afford not funding Pakistan, nor can America presently & also in the near future genuinely side India over Pakistan”
So India knows US or anybody will never support to strike in pakistan..India has given enough evidense to show the ISI hand in Kabul embassy blast and Mumbai..what better time than now when pakis army is divided in to western and eastern border ??

Posted by Om | Report as abusive

@Peace,

You are so stubborn you will never believe any evidence that was produced by those poor 188 people mercilessly butchered by Extremist Pakistan.

There are many elements: the population at large, the army and ISI and the madrassa/terrorist infrastructure, which many agree is trained and supported by the ISI/Military. I have seen a few youtube clips where the Pak Military and its soldiers a rally somewhere in Pakistan was shouting death to India with huge crowds gathered and there were several dozen extremist religious men (madrassa men) and dozens of children. The little children as young as age 5 were screaming at the top of their lungs “Murdabad India”, or “Lakh Hindu Mahro!!!).

Your own military and ISI, and in your heart you know it, has been training terrorists in a proxy war against India. There is not a secret, as it is well known from the hundreds of Mindslave Jihadis we have caught and sitting in our jails.

People do not believe Pakistan anymore. With the internet, video cams, cell phones, satellites, you just can’t hide what you say anymore, anywhere. There is so much of an electronic trail, that it is hard almost to not drown in the information.

I am sorry you are so insulted and shamed. There is no elaborate conspiracy here my friend. Even friends of Pakistan, namely China agrees on all the evidence given to them by the US and India.

As far as Pakistan being peace loving, it depends on who you ask. Seeing most Paks talk in these forums, the seem to be in denial that Pakistan is suffering from a 911-Mumbai every other week. I don’t see any sort of peace in Pakistan, I just see it falling to “pieces”.

The madrassas there are training young men to wear suicide vests and kill their own Pakistani people in the markets.

It is funny how you casually dismiss evidence gathered by the FBI, Indian Intelligence and CIA, all very professional agencies, as “fabricated”, “so-called” and “supposed”. Your post is pretty much useless and baseless as you arguement is based on emotion.

There has been so many flip flops regarding Mumbai, that Pakistan has lost diplomatic integrity and suffering from a sense of national shame. I work with people from many countries and they do not have a good opinion of Pakistan.

I guarantee you this Peace. If you dismantle the terrorist training camps setup by the military in the late 1980′s to cause war on India, and dismantle the entire infrastructure of terrorism in Pakistan, we have something to talk about.

Until you admit that Pakistan is a cesspool of terror, jihadi/deoband/wahhabi extremism hate, we have nothing to talk to you about. You must cut out the cancer within Pakistan until you remove the madrasas, training camps and military support and training of Kashmiri terrorists (I am sorry, you might call them freedom fighters).

By the way, regarding Kashmir, we will give up Kashmir, a part of our country, as long as you are willing to giveup a province of your own….now which one will that be?…Sindh, NWFP, Balochistan, SWAT, NWFP…..you decide.

Oh…and by the way, also quit scaring your children regarding the Indian “Boogeyman”. In India, we do not have a pathological pre-occupation to teach our children to hate Pakistan. We don’t teach our children to hate muslims, we teach our children, mathematics, languages, art, music, friendship and progression to succeed at academics.

STOP the hate. There is an old saying in sanskrit, that “a man is not measured by his wealth or his power…but by the quality of children he creates”…

Posted by Global Watcher | Report as abusive

Om
—because that is exactly the gameplan of Pakistani Army, to abandon their eastern border & give a free run to their Talibanese forces to recoup & if NATO forces decide a ground attack in that region as Obama suggested, then the Pak Army presence is not in that region & NATO forces will meet the same fate as the soviets, this is exactly what they did when they attacked our Parliament & Mumbai attacks are an attempt to repeat the same…it’s got more to do with blackmailing America than war with India.

Posted by Anup | Report as abusive

Anup, I think the situations are different now when compared to time of soviets V/s afgan. then taliban/pakistan has steady funds and arms provided by US to run the show.. will not be the case if americans think they are being black mailed..

Posted by Om | Report as abusive

Om
—Obama threatened to stop aid(read alms) to Pakistan, & yes the blackmailing always works for Pakistan, they are Pros in the game…that’s precisely the reason why America is restraining India from retaliating.

Posted by Anup | Report as abusive

Dear Global watcher, as someone commented that instead of watching the globe you should watch KASHMIR, GUJRAT etc. My suggestion to you is to open your eyes and mind if exised. Where exist the denial from PAKISTAN, give us evidences and then see what we’ll do. Further, let suppose, if india has provided its (fabricated) evidences then for what reason mukherji is going USA to beg its safety from PAKISTAN. Pakistan, if you know, is a great country. The miracle of Pakistan is that since independence india is trying to eleminate Pakistan, consider as being the biggest threat to them, but so far we have survived and survived well above india and even the country is small but it has defeated the country with 1/6th population of world.
So beat-it, start thinking positively and show your intelligence, if any

Posted by Peace | Report as abusive

@Peace,

It appears as though the media in Pakistan and even you suffer from an extreme case of selective amnesia, when it comes to historical facts and your understanding of events is many times quite contrary to what the rest of the civilized world deems to be true.

You still did not admit that your country is guilt of training terrorists. Your notorius and insidious General Hamid Gul is one of the grand master terrorist architects of the Pakistani Terrorism domestically and especially abroad.

I still don’t know how this man is walking free in Pakistan. It baffles me.

Your friends the Americans even have been handling you with kid gloves and the entire buzz in Washington with Barack Obama is faced at Pakistan’s terrorism factory problem, it is actually becoming the entire world’s problem.

Posted by Global Watcher | Report as abusive

The evidence is on the streets of Pakistan everyday, everytime you pass by the madrassas, just listen to the hate being manufactured there. Do I need to come over there and show you that too?

Posted by Global Watcher | Report as abusive

dear pakistanis

pak has conferred highest pakistan award to a vice president elect of a country which is attaking the pak with its drones. highly shame. for what the award. is it for money or is it for the support they render to fulfull your wishes of dismantaling india or for that matter all big south asian economies. this means you can do any thing for money

Posted by venkat | Report as abusive

JUST TO OPEN YOUR EYES:Former British Foreign Secretary: Al Qaeda is Not a Real Group, Just a U.S. Propaganda Campaign.
Former British Foreign Secretary Robin Cook says:The truth is, there is no Islamic army or terrorist group called Al Qaida. And any informed intelligence officer knows this. But there is a propaganda campaign to make the public believe in the presence of an identified entity representing the ‘devil’ only in order to drive the TV watcher to accept a unified international leadership for a war against terrorism. The country behind this propaganda is the US. Cook has previously written:Al-Qaida, literally “the database”, was originally the computer file of the thousands of mujahideen who were recruited and trained with help from the CIA to defeat the Russians. Cook is merely confirming what others have said. Former National Security Adviser Zbigniew Brzezinski told the Senate that the war on terror is “a mythical historical narrative”.

Posted by Peace | Report as abusive

JUST TO OPEN YOUR EYES:Former British Foreign Secretary: Al Qaeda is Not a Real Group, Just a U.S. Propaganda Campaign.
Former British Foreign Secretary Robin Cook says:The truth is, there is no Islamic army or terrorist group called Al Qaida. And any informed intelligence officer knows this. But there is a propaganda campaign to make the public believe in the presence of an identified entity representing the ‘devil’ only in order to drive the TV watcher to accept a unified international leadership for a war against terrorism. The country behind this propaganda is the US. Cook has previously written:Al-Qaida, literally “the database”, was originally the computer file of the thousands of mujahideen who were recruited and trained with help from the CIA to defeat the Russians. Cook is merely confirming what others have said. Former National Security Adviser Zbigniew Brzezinski told the Senate that the war on terror is “a mythical historical narrative”.

@Peace,

You sound just like the notorious Hamid Gul. Hamid Gul came on TV and claimed that all the Terrorism in Pakistan and around the world is all staged by the CIA, and that there is a conspiracy against muslim countries. It is funny how one sided this man is, then he claims that 911 and MUMBAI were “inside” jobs by MOSSAD, or the CIA or Indian Intelligence. This mans appetite for blaming others for this problems and blaming others for terrorist attacks on them astounds me. It is shocking how he, like you Peace is using plausible denial to explain away everything. He even goes to say that any terrorist attacks anywhere are staged by Western countries to create a reason to attack Islam, even after the perpetrators and all the evidence is given.

Al Qaeda, you can call it whatever you want, to be funny, you can even call this group “Mickey Mouse”, whatever you want, I don’t care. The fact is, you are ignoring the thousands killed in Terrorist attacks around the world, let me be quite frank here, the terrorist attacks were not caused by Hindus, Buddhists, Christians, Bahai, Shinto (japan), Aboriginals (Aussie), First Nations(North America), Eskimos, Russians, Eastern Orthodox. If you guessed right, it was the “Mickey Mouse” group.

Let me start with, just to name a few antics of the “Mickey Mouse” Group: (most below with bodycounts over 100)

-1988-Lockerbie Scotland
-1993-World Trade Center – Ramzi Yousef and Friends
-8 Aug 1998: truck bombings of U.S. embassies in Nairobi, Kenya, and Dar es Saalam, Tanzania
-Sept 11, 2001 – 911
-2002 Bali Night Club Bombings (200 dead-tourists)
1-3 Sep 2004: hostage taking at school in Beslan, Russia (includes 30 terrorists killed) (366)
-11 Jul 2006: multiple bombings on commuter trains in Mumbai, India (200)
-11 Mar 2004: bombings of four trains in Madrid, Spain
-2007 just under 500 Pakistanis killed in suicide bombings
-2008 just under 2000 Pakistanis killed in suicide attacks
-2008 Mumbai 188 killed in Mumbai by Pakistani Gunmen

I think I should stop now. These were committed by the Mickey Mouse club. These men suffer from a collective mental illness, which has been imposed on them by brainwashing. They feel people not practicing the same ideals as the Mickey Mouse club are not worthy to live.

The question is, do you suffer from that same mental illness?

Did the rest of the world just imagine all this, did each of those countries just decide to self-inflict these wounds on themselves?

You get your information from on or two sources and deem it to be true. You ignore the mountain of evidence confiscated from all of the terrorism crime scences, there are telephone records, faxes, emails, laptops, recordings, written notes, wiretaps, books, peoples, names places connecting all the dots….yet you ignore all this and casually dismiss it.

Don’t insult those killed and their families by saying Al Qaeda does not exist.

You wear the hat of shame well.

Posted by Global Watcher | Report as abusive

To get more information about developments in Pakistan and in the region, please visit

http://www.real-politique.blogspot.com

Highly disgraceful,how a US VP who sends drones to kill our people gets an award. I hang my head in shame as a Pakistani…

Posted by Yousuf | Report as abusive