India-U.S: advancing a transformed relationship

January 19, 2009

In the space of a decade, the United States and India have travelled far in a relationship clouded by the  Cold War when they were on opposite sides.

From U.S sanctions on India for its nuclear tests in 1998 to a civilian nuclear energy deal that opens access to international nuclear technology and finance, while allowing New Delhi to retain its nuclear weapons programme is a stunning reversal of policy and one that decisively transforms ties.

America has also ‘soberly’ after decades of differing over counter-terrorism priorities become a vocal 
supporter of India’s concerns over the use of Pakistani territory for Islamist militant groups, says the Asia 
Society in a report laying out a blueprint for an expanded India-U.S. relationship
ahead of 
President-elect Barack Obama’s inauguration on Tuesday.

Indian and U.S. interests have converged and “never in history have they been so closely aligned,” the  report by an Asia Society Task Force says, arguing for a still deeper security and economic engagement between the two large democracies.

Click here for a PDF of the report

The Obama administration must keep India as one of its top foreign policy priorities, Richard Holbrooke, chairman of the Asia Society and who has been talked about as a possible envoy to South Asia, and Vishakha N.Desai, president of the Asia Society, say in a joint foreword

Besides the players involved, the report is also interesting because it adopts a rather different tone on India’s relations with Pakistan and especially Kashmir to some of the policy prescriptions offered by some other influential U.S. think tanks such as the Center for American Progress.

This is how the task force suggests the incoming administration  boost security engagement with India: 

• Establish the closest possible consultation on all security issues in the entire region
• Reiterate commitment to “dehyphenation” (meaning U.S. ties with India and Pakistan are not a zero-sum game and must be carried on over different tracks)
• Discuss Afghanistan and Pakistan strategies frankly and in deep detail
• Listen closely on Kashmir, encourage the India-Pakistan composite dialogue, but do not try to mediate.

Music to New Delhi’s ears? Yes, but the Asia Society also cautions that the old “Great Game” suspicions over Afghanistan remain, and Pakistan sees India’s engagement there as a threat to its vital interests.

“The United States may well have to play a role in making certain India clarifies its objectives in Afghanistan and transmits those to Pakistan, while ensuring that our own dialogue with India addresses India’s role in Afghanistan and how it can be most constructive. By the same token, the U.S. will need to be forthright with Pakistan about its consultations with India and India’s importance in stabilizing Afghanistan,” it says.

A book released by the United States Institute for Peace focused on Afghanistan also stresses the key role Kabul’s neighbours play on the security situation in the country. “Regional competition continues to undermine Afghanistan’s long-term prospects, whereas renewed regional cooperation could provide a significant security and economic boost in Afghanistan, Pakistan and the region as a whole,” the book titled The Future of Afghanistan argues, according to this note.

But there are no barriers to India and the United States sharing a close relationship on dealing with militancy, the Asia Society report says, arguing that the two countries vastly expand their ties in this area on the lines of cooperation with the UK, Germany, or Australia.

 In the mid to long term, America could think of expanding the “Five Eyes” (Canada, US , UK, Australia, and NZ) intelligence-sharing network to six,  bringing India on board, it says.

And on nuclear issues, it endorses the far-reaching deal signed by the Bush administration and calls for implementing the promise of nuclear trade between the two countries immediately. It also says New Delhi must be given membership in security and nonproliferation regimes such as the Nuclear Suppliers Group, the Missile Technology Control Regime, the Australia Group and the Zangger Committee.

A bit of irony there actually, given that the Nuclear Suppliers Group came into being following India’s first set of nuclear tests in 1974 with the idea to clamp down on nuclear exports.

The Asia Society report also calls for including India in the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons Treaty  (NPT) review conference in 2010, which is equally interesting given New Delhi’s long-standing position that the NPT is discriminatory. So is this the end of nuclear apartheid as far as New Delhi is concerned now that it is being given a seat on the nuclear high table ?

Ultimately, the United States has to approach India as an equal partner if the relationship has to be taken further, the Asia Society report says. “India is an ancient, proud land and a great civilization; it is an emerging global power and it seeks respect. India is also intensely political—as are we,” the report’s authors say. There will be disagreements just as the United States has with countries such as France, but there is a “strategic interest in seeing India evolve into a democratic, independent power center.”

[Reuters pictures of an Obama sand sculpture in eastern India, U.S and Indian naval sailors on an Indian navala ship near Goa and test site in Pokharan where India conducted nuclear tests in 1998.]

56 comments

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To read more about Pakistan related development s and the regional in general, please visit http://real-politique.blogspot.com

Goodbye Mr. Bush-In short India’s honeymoon with America is over- we’ll go back to the pre-Bush days of mistrust & caution…

Posted by Anup | Report as abusive

There is no evidence so far Pakistan is willing or planning to abandon terrorism as an instrument of state policy.

India cannot entirely depend on USA. US should encourage Afghanistan and India to join together to fight against Pakistan army sponsored terrorism in South Asia. It is a very tough fight. But the Pakistan army , ISI , terrorists, and their supporters are not interested in peace and economic prosperity for Pakistan. This fact makes the work for India, Afghanistan and USA musch harder.

Additional measures by India are needed. Some suggestions:

1) Break diplomatic relations with Pakistan.

2) Abrogate the Havana Agreement

3) Declare Pakistan as a “terrorist state” and the ISI as a “terrorist organization.”

4) Snap all CBM’s implemented on Kashmir from cross-border travel to trade etc.

5) Review Indus Waters Treaty and stop flow of river waters to Pakistan

6)Snap all Pak transit overflights

7) Stop train and air services to Pakistan.

8) Peace Process and Composite Dialogue to be called off.

9) Black-list all countries selling defense equipment to Pakistan and not invite them to tender for Indian military purchases.

10) Resume ‘covert operations’ against Pakistan with focus on Pakistan’s military establishment and terrorist organization.

11) India should give political, moral and material support to the “freedom fighters” in Baluchistan, Northern Areas and Pakistan-occupied Kashmir. (Attacks on Balochi gas pipelines already resumed)

12) Isolate Pakistan in South Asia by disbanding SAARC and focus on alternative regional organizations excluding Pakistan.

13) Psychological warfare, visibly exposing Pakistan Army’s and ISI disruptive activities in neighbouring countries. “Radio Free Pakistan” and TV channels be established. The emphasis in this campaign should be that India and Indians are not against the Pakistani people and that India is definitely against the Pakistan Army establishment, the ISI and their affiliated terrorist organisations indulging in unrestrained “War of Terror” against India, Afghanistan and in Pakistan’s frontier areas.

14) Establish a maritime ‘cordon sanitairre’ in the North Arabian Sea excluding all trade by dhows and fishing trawlers traffic.

15) No tourists from Pakistan or foreigners transiting through Pakistan be given entry to India.

16) India should not pursue the Iran-Pakistan-India gas pipeline project both in the present context and otherwise too.

Bush administration has given a unique special place to India which I wouldn’t put away as “treated as equal”..its something more than that..

-Bush invited Dr.Manmohan sigh first to consult on the US economic issue..

-The civil nuclear deal was by far not an easy task but Bush administration did not think it brings a bad reputation to US to advocate the passing of deal through NSG and NPT..which was formed because India tested nuclear weapons.

Here are few deals which did not come into public but were a good defense deals between US and India ..

- US’s defense suppliers Lockeed Martin ( Manufacturer of F-16, Hornetts) and Boeing has agreed to share technology and work together with I-HAL ( Public private joint venture between TATA’s and HAL in India)

- US and India are carving out a joint venture program to develop and install missile defense shield in India to nullify pakis nuclear threats.

- India is favourably looking at Lockeed Martin and Boeing for its biggest ever defense deal worth 12B $ to procure 5th generation multi role fighter jets.. it is said US is ready to deliver F-35 and F-22(never sold by US to any country) to india at the cost of F-16s.

Most importantly the Obama administration has shown the same attitude towards Indians by choosing number of Indians into his admin team, which shows that americans have a feeling about Indians as more dependable, reliable and smart people.

Posted by Anitha | Report as abusive

Comments by “Johnny” is a true example of indian barking strategy and false propoganda, these people without knowledge and without knowing the facts states thier long comments… for your suggesting on banning train and air service to Pakistan… note that there exit no train service to/from Pakistan after the blast in Samjhota Express by hindu extremist… have you all forgotten about the destruction of “Babri Mosque”, have you forgotten about killing, raping and molesting young an old women in Kashmir in front of thier fathers, brothers, sons and husbands, have you forgotten about killing of hundreds of muslims in Gujrat…If yes then somebody will remind you soon… the real terrorist state is only India, which has been terrorizing its people particularly non-hindus sincs beggining of 19th century.. because you call it “Hindustan”, land of hindus. Hindus brutality results in creation of Pakistan. and you they stop doing this they see more division of India.
india in on top among terrorist states besides israel.

Posted by Peace | Report as abusive

Guys stop anti-US rethoric…just because Indians feel frustrated about no action on pakistan and no visible help from US to do so its not right to label an ally like US as untrust worthy..
US and India both understand why war with pakistan at the moment is not an option..
Ever thought why Isreali land troops could do so much damage in Gaza ?? and walk out of there without a scratch ?? Isreal lost 13 lives when they took 1300 lives of palestinians..if could just see the war Isreal fought 2 years back in lebanon it wasn’t so successfull..the main reason for such a victory when Hamas had about 20000 foot soldiers and a 100 special Iran trained commandoes..it was all because of help from US to train every Isreal soldier in Urban warfare which was started 2 years ago after lebanon war. Isreal has built and urban warfare training camp with about 500 buliding structures to train troops and every single soldier was trained in there..so the recent gaza war was not a surprise to US or isreal it was well planned.
Now imagine India doing same in pakistan..
India’s army may have zeal to fight..but the hardware we have are all out dated, our army do not have Urban warfare tactics, which is simply more than neccesary for any modern times war. It would take atleast till 2013 to equip/modernize Indian army, by then Indian army will have its own Nuclear subs, its own AWACS, full squardrons of 5th generation multi role fighter jets, variety of electronics to detect signals from different kinds of missile delivery systems and most importantly well trained army in modren times warfare.
Even the encirclement of afghanistan if happens will have to wait till all the above is taken care of to wage a war..

Posted by Anitha | Report as abusive

Anitha

—The sound bytes coming from the Obama team, as of now, do not seem to be encouraging in the Indian context, but, let’s give some space after he occupies the hot-seat for awhile…

Posted by Anup | Report as abusive

The relations between countries are something which are non-perdictable..we can be only sure with how it is today..Just like we did not had any kinda problem in relations with great britain till milliband dropped in to give his controversial statements..and now we are not simply comfortable with british they are immature and their diplomacy is a disastor..as simple as that.

Posted by Anitha | Report as abusive

Although ridiculing milband is also a favourite pastime of the British(previous goof-up’s with Russia, Israel…) — by playing to the gallery & register himself in the good books of the to-be-Powers in Washington,presuming that as Foreign Secretary of Britain, he is more privy & better informed,he did spill the beans, prematurely, of the possible future of Washington’s S.Asia policy,

Posted by Anup | Report as abusive

Anitha
“..and now we are not simply comfortable with british they are immature and their diplomacy is a disastor..”

—When the Amarnath row was at it’s peak, the British High Commissioner of India had a secret rendezvous with the Hurriyat leaders extending Britain’s support…

Posted by Anup | Report as abusive

Ha ha That’s funny Anup..
If that was the case..then Hurriyat leaders now know that secret support from some illy pilly pakistanis crowded country like England can in no way be of any influence or use to finger into internal matters pertaining to India.

Posted by Anitha | Report as abusive

To the ridiculing of the Bush regime & to the great expectations & euphoria of Mr. Obama–

“Pity the nation that welcomes its new ruler with trumpeting, & farewells him with hooting, only to welcome another with trumpeting again.”
(Khalil Jibran)

Posted by Anup | Report as abusive

While the angry reaction of Pakistanis is understandable, it is incorrect to describe India’s strategy as “barking strategy”.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/art icle/ALeqM5jDJn0Ngbk9llNISm1cU99X6397Sw

Militants blow up gas pipeline in Pakistan: officials

QUETTA, Pakistan (AFP) — Suspected tribal rebels blew up a gas pipeline in Pakistan’s insurgency-hit southwestern province of Baluchistan on Monday, suspending supplies to several areas, officials said.

The pre-dawn blast damaged a main pipeline bringing gas from the Pirkoh field to the Sui purification plant in Dera Bugti district, said security and company officials on condition of anonymity.

A nationalist group, the Baluch Republican Army, claimed responsibility. “We carried out the attack,” Sarbaz Baluch, a spokesman for the group, said in telephone calls to local media.

Hope Obama realizes the potential of India for American businesses and continues President Bushes good work. Pakistan is more of a liability for US since we, the taxpayers sponsor all the money that goes into that blackhole.

Posted by Jerry | Report as abusive

@Peace,

First of all peace, it is largely viewed that Islamic Militants from Pakistan caused the events on the train you speak of. Secondly, India is not a police state, where it tracks the existence and movement of every insect on the ground. India paid compensation to the families of the victims. It was a horrible crime committed by someone who obviously wanted India and Pak relations to deteriorate.

Don’t talk to me about raping and killing of muslims, as though you really care…why don’t you mention the genocide of 500,000 muslims in East Pakistan by the Pakistani Army?? During this war, 2.5million Hindus were genocided. The Pak Army systematically raped hundreds of thousands of Hindu Girls and Old women as per orders from their superiors.

Why don’t you mention the unequal rights of women in Pakistan, doesn’t a women have to have 4 witnesses to prove she was raped? I believe a very high profile case from Pakistan made its way around the world, much to Pakistan’s shame. The story of “Mukhtar Mai” is an infamous one, showing how the system in Pakistan had to be forced by the international community to recognize her savage raping.

Even Mumbai, Pakistan did not act until extreme internation pressure was put on Pakisan.

As far as the Babri Mosque, it was wrong for those extremists to tear that mosque down. But just to set the record straigh, Emperor Babri, butchered and genocided many Hindus in 1527. Emperor Babur destroyed one of the Grandest Hindu temples in India at the old site of the Babur Mosque. It was considered the birthplace of the highly revered Ramchander, a figure most dear to Hinduism. It belonged to Hindus first.

For those who aren’t versed in old Indian History, it was common place for the Arab invaders to burn, destroy Hindu temples and setup mosques there. The population of India was mostly unarmed civilians and were subjected to unimaginable and a very horrific genocide, rape, murder, theft of land, dessecration of Hindu shrines, destruction of culture, etc. Most of this destruction was well documented by Islamic Scholars.

So since I admitted fault of the Babri Mosque, will you admit fault of the destruction of the Hindu Shrines by Emperor Babri? No, I didn’t think you would, since you follow a double standard.

Your next point, there was murder, rape and killing in Kashmir on both sides, muslim on hindu and hindu on muslim and you failed to mention that. Since only pain suffered by the muslims is considered real pain and everyone else is not human, am I right, Peace? As Pakistan has been sending and fuel separatists, terrorists, to separate Kashmir, this causes a backlash from the Hindus, and naturally, the muslims and hindus there are going to suffer.

Perhaps, Pakistan should leave IOK alone and worry about its own problems first. Isn’t your country like falling apart or something, as we speak?

We have a saying in English it is “The Pot Calling the Kettle Black”. The question is, are you a “Pot”. Go google this phrase if you are too ignorant to know about it.

I will make it a point to say how reprehensible it is, in this modern day, that someone unprovoked, brings violence on another, a for all past misdeads.

Feel free to point out how you equally think that the misdeads against the millions of Hindus genocided is equally deplorable. I guarantee you, if you do that, you have taken the first step to getting rid of Hindu Extremists, of which nobody wants, on either side of the border.

Posted by Global Watcher | Report as abusive

As always pakistanis offended by article in favour (Hopefully) of India.

Using foul language becoming a norm for Pakistanis here. Guys patriotism is fine but at least try to be fair. Pakis has been given billions of taxpayers money and no paki is giving any clue where it has gone. Why would USA will resume relation with Pakistan which have not done anything on ground,despite of receiving a lot of money.

Posted by punjabiyaar | Report as abusive

Pakistan needs to accept a very harsh reality — it is not the equal of India, and the belief that we can be compared has stunted our development no end. We cannot win a war against it, we cannot compare the instability of our political system to the stability of theirs, we cannot hope to compete economically with what is a booming economy well on its way to becoming a global economic power, and we certainly cannot compare the conservativeness of our society to the open pluralism of their everyday life. http://www.dawn.com/2009/01/10/op.htm

Posted by pluralism | Report as abusive

The Asia Society report is truly a new and refreshing approach to Indo American relations. Sounds almost like Camelot. Just how much chance it has of being heeded is a moot point. The substance sounds reasonable but the fact is that just as with Pakistan and India, Indo – US relations still carry the baggage of the past. There is just too much distrust of US motives in this entire region. Both India and Pakistan have the same experience in their relations with the US.

Old prejudices will take a while to disappear.Better to wait till Obama spells out his administrations aim and track on South Asia. Till then conjectures, theories and advice are interesting mental exercises.

Peace:
You really need some help!

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive

Nothing frustates Pakis more than a praise for India. We have built such a reputation by working really hard on it for past so many decades. If the whole world today is pointing fingers at Pakistan, they should instead try to look their fundamentals instead of using child like tactics.

Posted by Aaruni Upadhyay | Report as abusive

@Aaruni,
There is a great saying, “Neighbors Envy, Owners Pride”.
There is another thing, “Reactive and Proactive”.
There is one more thing, “Reaction to Frustration”.

If you agree with this, then this is Pakistan.

Posted by Blogger | Report as abusive

Hi,

First of all let us put our records straight. Population of muslims in India is more than that of Pakistan. That population is a thriving one with no differentiation done socially/economically. They are as much part of India as the other people. Therefore, people in pakistan has no right to comment on plight of muslims in India as if Grandfathers of all muslims reside in Pakistan.

It is true that a part of muslim population is poor and deprived, so is other population of India. Opening up dozens of madrasas that only teaches “Allah is good” and not in line with educational standards of India is not helping them to reap benefits that system provides. For those people who decide to be in the regular education system can become like Dr. Abdul Kalam, our beloved president. It is not muslims alone. If a hindu goes to himalayas to pray.. he will be over there for rest of his life and not prosper in material terms.

ISI / Pakistan can choose to be on offensive and continue to get deprived from benefits that it can receive if it had been friends. Come out of hate and think what we could have achieved jointly, ever lasting peace and prosperity with loads of money spent on education and health instead of bombs. I get infuriated by short sightedness and us having to spend so much on bombs. I laugh at Pakistan because it can ill afford.

Suvro.

Posted by Suvro | Report as abusive

Good luck with new ralation with States and the only reason they are with you is solely for their own intrest. As soon as they are achieved the honeymoon will be over as a perfect example is Pakistan. As once a senior American diplomat said, you can get away with being our enemy but not as our friend. Pakistan has been there for USA whenever called upon but as soon as the intrest of the American is over they will leave you in whatever state you are.

As they did in after the Afghan/Russia war and had they stayed there n helped the Afghans to establish proper rule of law. They would not be fighting this war, so as much as this militancy is Pakistan fault so is the the Americans too. Its a unfinished busienss which started back in 70′s.

By the way pakistanis are not jealous at indian progress infact we envy what they have achieved. As well the progress chineses have made so yes it makes us look why is our giverments failing to give the opportunity to Pakistanis who are as talented as any other race on this planet if not MORE.

Our problems is lack of BOLD leadership as we had with Mr Bhutto. Once we get a leader which feels what the ordinary Pakistanis feel then we will get on the right track and we can show the world and even with half hearted leaders we have achieved a lot but yes there is long way to go yet.

Posted by Hussain | Report as abusive

Hussain, the problem with pakistan was not a healthy relationship with US..but inferior attitude shown by pakistani political leadership towards their U.S counterpart..
@”the only reason they are with you is solely for their own intrest. As soon as they are achieved the honeymoon will be over as a perfect example is Pakistan”.

You are correct..but this time the US interest is to bring up India to counter chineese economy once that is achieved..India may very well end the honeymoon for a change..what do you thinnk about that ??

Posted by Anitha | Report as abusive

Hussain,
US-India relationship always has limitations cos we both have one thing in common, a Democracy since decades, therefore any negotiations with India will be tough to US. Moreover we have seen what was/is evident of US policies towards its friends and foes. So we never/don’t fall an easy prey.

The relationship that Pakistan-US had/has is entirely different, Pakistan fell/fall an easy prey to US as everyone have noticed it ‘For few dollars more’. Therefore there was a different limitation, and will always have a saturation point.

Look what Chinese did with India, today we do have differences but those are kept aside and moved forward towards economic cooperation, today Indian software companies are setup in China, and working effectively. China is also a biggest importer for Steel from India, and in turn India too imports commodities especially toys etc from China.

If Pakistan would have behaved decently, shred out all those difference, then who know we too would have had a good economic relationship, probably we would have done better than Indo-China or Sino-Pak as we share a same race. But this looks more a theory now due to few bad politicians and bureaucrats in Pakistan.

It is not a LACK of BOLD leadership, it’s a LACK of YOU people not retaliating to BAD politics. Your governors know the people weakness and they are simply taking advantage of it. Your governors has put a lot of hatred towards your neighbors, be it an India or Afghanistan, and you guys are just carrying it forward.
Change does not come with Leadership, change comes from People choosing a good Leader.

Can you give me one such person (Leader) of your country who had told good things about India or Afghanistan?
Well if you think to fire back the same question to me, I have an answer in advance… all our Prime Ministers’ tried their best to have a good relationship from/with Pakistan, but it never been achieved bcos of a wrong hands in your side.
But now everything is a History, and future is concrete, and accepting Pakistan towards India is a too tough choice not bcos of Politicians, its bcos of the People to People relationship is spoiled/spoiling.

Posted by Blogger | Report as abusive

what a nice picture for barack obama.

The Asian Society Task Force PDF.

Posted by jason | Report as abusive

@Global watcher—-stop lying the culprits of blast in train are Lt-Col Shrikant Purohit and Sadhvi Pragya Singh Thakur and i think their name suggest they are hindus.
@Rajeev…so i made you out of words, no answer to my questions removal of wrist band is a big question mark and that is why new law has been develop in india to restrict live news…because it shows reality what india do not want to show to world

Posted by Peace | Report as abusive

India will have to be watched closely. They have a tendency to backstab other countries and invoke nationalistic frenzy in an attempt to develop rogue weapons. The world cannot afford another nuclear holocaust, least of all in one of world’s poorest and populationally dense regions.

Posted by Jay Nerich | Report as abusive

test

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive

Its very simple nations don’t have friends they have interests.

US interest’s in Asia(regardless of parties involved) are a ‘peaceful rise of China’ and ‘defeat of jihadi islam’ as are ours.

All these are also common vis a vis our relations with Russia.

All this great democracies working together is balloney.
Where were they in the first 50 years of our independence when we were still the largest democracy in the world.

Posted by Shantanu Chatterjee | Report as abusive

“Can you give me one such person (Leader) of your country who had told good things about India or Afghanistan?”

When the Indians have fought three wars with us and helped to divide the country and even to this they will use any opportunity to marginalise Pakistan. How do you expect the Pak Leaders to be full of praise for the indians? India understands that Pakistan can NOT compete with her in terms of ecnomics, millatry and therefore they always come to table as superiors and not as mutual or equal partners. Thats where the problems lies, India has realised after the nuke tests that Pakistan is there to stay and now they want to corner the newly elected governments. When infact they should be working with the new civilians goverment and as offered by the new admin to have a joint investigation which was turned down by the indians.

So please comment on something logical, since you complain that Pak leaders have NOT praised the indians. How many indian leaders had praise for Pakistan? They all wanted to see agreater Hindustan as one of your leaders said when Bangladesh was born that 1000 years of Muslim idenitiy is now in the bay of Bengal.

Pakistan could have been aperfect democracy but USA never wanted to see a democratic Pakistan. As dealing with one man like Mushraf was ideal for them or Zia-ul-Haq. So the destiny if Pakistan is NOT in the hands of ordinary Pakistani infact it the strings are pulled in Washington.

Posted by Hussain | Report as abusive

Hussain:

Are you a Kashmiri? Sincerely asking.

About “When the Indians have fought three wars with us and helped to divide the country and even to this they will use any opportunity to marginalise Pakistan.”

India did not initiate the wars, it is Pakistan. Is there still a debate about it? STratimg with Nehru, India’s non-align movement, his saying no to UN permanent membership but rather suggesting China’s name, but back stabed bu China, that giving encouragennt to Pak to try another misadventure in Kashmir in 1965 but getting crushed by neutral anlayses,Pak genocide in 1971 and India thus supporting Bangladesh is humane not political. On the contrary, look at Pak dictators pne after the other, hanging the previous dictaror and getting into power, only to be crsuhed later by another dictator, Establsihed fact that terrorism is Pak forein policy–it all sums up a contsrating picture of 2 nations going different ways, Pak, but not India, as an aggressor. This sums up India as a who does not have expansionist urges unlike other neigbors–but capable of responsing to threats every single time it was asked. It all shows India and is established fact now that it is a powerful but responsible nation.

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive

i think that Sharif in lahore and Zardari in Delhi were honest and wanted peaceful relationships with India.
And on both occasions “non state actors” (or ISI or Pak Army) back stabbed both of them and antagonized India.

The fact is only Pakistanis can control these actors. Hussein, in essence your future is in your hand. How you allow your leaders(Politicians/Army/ISI) to go against the wishes and well being of your people?
Many in India said that India has progressed despite its leaders. So stop cursing your leaders and have faith in yourself.

Unlike Pakistan India is a functioning democracy. So any engagement with US is very closely scrutinized by the public and the political parties. I am sure you are aware of the fact that even the Nuclear pact with America was so hotly debated that Manmohan singh (MMS) almost lost the govt. These checks and balances will help india negotiate its position with US. As long as our interests match we will work together if not we will differ with each other in a mature manner.

Posted by chirkut | Report as abusive

@indians—-with the Obama’s inaugural speech it is clear that whose side USA is, despite indians effort to defame PAKISTAN the amount of aid against War on terrors has increase 50%, and we all know that US is not stupid enough to give more aid to a country which is not its ally and not help it against its war on terror. So stop making stories and come to reality, all your efforts to destroy Pakistans’ integrity have failed. Now your government have plan to gain some money through auction of things it purchased to show PAKISTAN involvement in mumbai incident.

Posted by Peace | Report as abusive

Peace wrote: “with the Obama’s inaugural speech it is clear that whose side USA is”

Which clearly means more drones, B-52′s and possibly US troops in Pakistan, just for “Some more dollars”

Pakistan created this terrorism snake, if they try to stop it (obviously for dollars), it is biting back, we all know whats going on in Swat area. If pakistan does not try to stop it, dollars stop. Its a very complex situation now, either way pakistan is going to lose. Obama is not naive, he is talking from the very first day about the double game pakistan is playing. He has told pakistan that AID will be linked with performance, Good days are over folks.

Can anybody tell me why did he address “Muslim countries” in specific, not to behave like enemies ?

Posted by punjabiyaar | Report as abusive

@Peace,
Sorry, but I’ve to say this. Please join some crash course to catch up American accent, especially a Black American accent. Then listen to what Obama said.

We (Indians) neither dependent on US nor ask for their $. In fact the ground reality is every American soldier dies in “War On Terror” the credit goes to Pakistan Army for their double standards and a false propaganda of being an ally of this whole saga.

By the way, your friends are just 140 kms away from Islamabad.

Posted by Blogger | Report as abusive

@intelligents ;-)
Why did Israel ended the Gaza strikes so suddenly, and despite everything zipi livni signed a MoU with US.?
Amazing attitude towards ‘Muslim World’ lol

Posted by blogger | Report as abusive

@punjabi & blogger…US drone are a kind of combine effort otherwise nobody is and will be allowed to use PAKISTAN airspace, and our forces are not weak enough like yours who (as you were all saying) failed to secure its territory. Further, the terms and conditions of US aid are not new these were since start of “War on Terror”. Infact it is india which wants to play double agent, it supported russia, against US, when they invaded afghanistan. While even at that time, when PAKISTAN, was very weak it supported US and we are still supporting them. The change is only in indian mind and that is why they are begging world to declare PAKISTAN, a peace loving country, as terrorist state, but world has seen who has been terrorizing in Kashmir, Gujrat, Amritsar, Ayodhya and many more places within india.

Posted by Peace | Report as abusive

Peace,

Indeed the drone attacks are a combined effort.
Pakistan is running so low in foreign reserve that it cannot buy oil for its plane. So she is asking US to overlook pakistan’s so called sovereignty and hit targets in her territory.
And then the Paki army helplessly looks and say that they can shoot down the drones but they dont have orders (or may be guts).

Another gems from your stable
Pakistan WAS very weak (As if its not now)
PAKISTAN, a peace loving country! (I’m sure Afghanistan and India will vouch for it)

ha ha ha
why don’t you try in Great indian laughter challange. I am sure you will crack better (not vulgar) jokes than shakeel.

Posted by chirkut | Report as abusive

peace wrote:
“US drone are a kind of combine effort otherwise nobody is and will be allowed to use PAKISTAN airspace”

Peace watch carefully your own TV channels and newspapers, US Drone attacks are opposed by everybody in Pakistan, every time a US official comes to pak, from zardari to kayani everybody says “DONT DO THAT” loudly and “please” softly.

I know the capacity of pak airforce, it shot a small Indian spy drone in 2002 with two F-16s. Yes F-16s for shooting a drone. I hope you don’t launch a nuclear missile on a much bigger and capable US drone when US stop paying you $$$.

When your country says “no more drone attacks” but they are still doing it, your security is already breached. So no need to be happy.

India has never made or maintained a relation with a country on the cost of other. We were out of the cold war right from the very first day. It was pakistan who had to choose a side because of the poor economy and unstable govt. US is achieving what was desired, they wanted their base in this part of the world they bought it from you. But they are not going to be blackmailed anymore.

Posted by Punjabiyaar | Report as abusive

RAJEEV….

Everyone in Pakistan realises that we can NOT compete with India on any front be it ecnomical, military or democraticaly or institutionaly. Pakistan has always had a policy of defense against its much bigger and powerful neighour. So why do all indians think that Pakistan is the agressor? I am sorry I do NOT buy your argument its illogical for Pakistan to be a bully with its much bigger neighour and sucidal infact.

The fact is Hindustan (land for hindus)wanted to Greater Hindustan. Only recently after the Nuke tests that India has realised Pakistan is there to stay. India sincerely needs to help the democratic powers in Pakistan not for the benefit of Pakistan but for the intrest of India too. Instead of using any attcks to marginalise Pakistan which is NOT as easy as the indians thought.

As recently Mr Miliband and even Mt Obama feel that Kashmir is main problem betwen the two countries. But indians do NOT see the logic in that. I mean if you sing the tunes of democracy then why NOT give the Kashmiris there voice and have a peblcite which is backed by UN resoluition and also promised bu your beloved Nehru.

Why dont the indians want to listen to the kashmiris instead have election and back pro delhi administration. That wil NOT win hearts n minds of kashmiris for India.

Live n let live in peace….

Posted by hUSSAIN | Report as abusive

@hussain

There is no such thing like “GREATER HINDUSTAN”, India had not attacked any country for territorial reasons. We are happy for whatever we have. Yes pakistan is an aggressor, four times it has attacked India.

Milliband and Obama also said pakistan is the center of terrorism. And we will will attack pakistan with drones or whatever way we want. Is there any kashmir between pak and USA ?

All rational pakistanis out there can you tell me just one logical answer for this question.

If tts something to do with Kashmir, WHAT HAS PAKISTAN TO DO WITH IT?

Posted by punjabiyaar | Report as abusive

@hussain

There is no such thing like “GREATER HINDUSTAN”, India had not attacked any country for territorial reasons. We are happy for whatever we have. Yes pakistan is an aggressor, four times it has attacked India.

Milliband and Obama also said pakistan is the center of terrorism. And we will will attack pakistan with drones or whatever way we want. Is there any kashmir between pak and USA ?

All rational pakistanis out there can you tell me just one logical answer for this question.

If its for Kashmir, WHAT HAS PAKISTAN TO DO WITH IT?

Posted by Punjabiyaar | Report as abusive

Peace,
…but world has seen who has been terrorizing in Kashmir, Gujrat, Amritsar, Ayodhya and many more places within india…
– So is pakistan sending another set of Freedom fighters to this land…
A cat called Pakistan was closing eyes and having free American Milk($$) all these, and not India tied a Bell (Mumbai attack) it chimed the whole world…
I think you would have had a typo, it should have been …
Pakistan is a PIECE loving country, and not PEACE loving country eg: YOU with the name as PEACE always speak about WAR, ARMY, DRONE (all terms of PIECE).
Well as double standards are concerned, please look @ your foreign minister’s speech yesterday about giving a Blank Cheque to China when Obama told something about Pakistan.

Posted by blogger | Report as abusive

@Hussain,
“GREATER HINDUSTAN”…
THANK YOU, India is not interested to add more population now, and that too a useless people are always a burden for a growing economy.

Posted by blogger | Report as abusive

Hussain,

Should I assume that you are from Pakistan since you did not answer my question?

You said: “So why do all indians think that Pakistan is the agressor?”
Is there still a debate that Pakistan has attacked India (wars)? Do not blame it on Jihadis. Either you are naïve or baised.
I cannot convince you any further that India is not into “greater India”—Expansion and India kabhi Nahi, I hope you got it. Look how Nehru started India-some call him naïve since he thought neighbors also want what he wants-peace. He said NO to permanent UN membership offer by USA 50-60 yrs ago—rather suggested Chian name who backstabbed India in 1962. The other day my Pakistani co-worker was saying (kind of making fun of India) that India has never been aggressive and attacked another country. I said “Thanks for the compliments” and he was flustered. I see nothing wrong on not attacking your neighbor. If you know enough about India, you will not say India is into”greater India” expansion—insecurity complex can explain that. PLus I would not buy a haunted house–Pak is troubled state (sadly) and strategically Pak as a separate nation gives India a buffer from certain elements that are disturbing Afghanistan. On the other hand look into the larger agenda of LeT and other such organizations—Kashmir is a small issue for them. They want to establish India as an Islamic state if you looking at their websites and are collaborating with other anti-India terrorist organizations. Some article for you:
http://www.carnegieendowment.org/files/i deologies.pdf
http://www.jamestown.org/single/?no_cach e=1&tx_ttnews%5Btt_news%5D=34319

Pakistan has betrayed the Kashmiris- Muslims and Pundits alike. ISI did Kashmiri Pundit genocide (in one post you were emotionally saying Kashmir will not be complete if Hindu brother/sisters do not come back!!!—yeah to get killed?.Look at some objective analysis of Kashmiris in POK and J&K–you will see how serious Pak is about Kashmir. If you take away religion factor–pak has nothing to offer to Kashmiris (assuming leftover are all Muslims).

Pak is pressing on the brakes and accelerator (???) together and expect the vehicle to move forward. UN resolution on Kashmir issue set some rules to help create favorable conditions for plebiscite–not respected though by Pak. Pakistani troops under the guise of guerrilla infiltrators entered Indian sovereignty that led to wars in 1948, 1965. while India might not be a saint about kashmir, Pak has done an irreparable damage to Kashmir and kashmiri cause. Pak has exploited Kashmir issue–it is just a distraction from other increasing internal problems in Pak. If Pak has been really worried about “Kashmiris”, why Pak ISI initiated terrorism in Kashmir?
POK also called Azad Kashmir is run by non-Kashmiris from Islamabad (so azad is a bogus title!). The stark differences between the so-called Azad Kashmir and Indian Kashmir by any neutral analysis shows the lack of sincerity of Pakistan towards Kashmiris. India has article 370 giving special status including non-Kashmiri cannot buy property in Kashmir, but Pak allowed several thousand non-Kashmiri families to settle in POK; destroyed the original demographics by systematic ethnic cleansing of Kashmiri Pundits through ISI’s Jihad and at the same time asking for Plebiscite. How many Kashmiris in POK were thrown out of Pakistan (lost jobs in the wake of the construction of Mangla Dam). Now Dam supplies 65% of the Pak electricity needs, but what does POK gets–nothing. Pakistan earns over Rs. 50 crores from the electricity produced at Mangla but the total budget of the Azad Kashmir is 20% of it!!!! Even if Pakistan might be thinking that it is helping Muslim Kashmiris—which it is not—but NO it is hurting and betraying them. And who runs two Kashmirs– Indian J&K (a kashmiri CM) but the PM of POK is from Rawalpindi (Punjabi). Isn’t it, India having a PM from Pakistan.

“It is obligatory to act kindly towards one’s neighbor, whether Muslim or non-Muslim. Violation of this is a cardinal sin. All of them fall under what Allah said (Koran 60:8): ‘Allah does not forbid you from dealing kindly and justly with those who did not fight you over religion and did not drive you from your homes; Allah loves those who deal justly.”

“Do not be aggressors, for Allah does not love the aggressors.”

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive

Pakistanis are tired of being labelled a failed state;that is a moniker that is coined by Western armchair critics who have never visited the country

Posted by Faraz Kassam | Report as abusive

Hussain,
you were balanced unlike most Pakistanis but mislead like all of them.
Two nation theory (land for muslims and hindus) failed because, most of the muslims stayed back in India and lot of hindus disappeared from Pakistan. Muslims do well like anybody else in India. They are not oppressed and don’t need your help.
Indians unanimously agree that they don’t want to annex Pakistan. No thank you. India does not want to annex Bangladesh either. Did they annex Bhutan, Nepal, no. So stop being irrational. Its that they don’t want muslims in Kashmir to be ruled by Pak which failed to protect its citizens, you can see what happened to western Pak now. India cannot lose its land anymore (in the name of Islam). In fact its large muslim population justifies adding more land in the name of Islam. Article 370 is the dumbest one the world has seen in the last 100yrs.

Faraz Kassam- honestly,

feel sorry for you, hope things get better, please look into your problems rationally,…a long ordeal man.

spread love and not hatred.Learn from Indian Muslims.(SINCE BEING A pAKISTANI, its your birthright to HATE HINDUS, I KNOW).

good luck.

Faraz Kassam,
..Pakistanis are tired of being labelled a failed state..

— Just a beginning, there’s a near end, pls wait with tiring.

Posted by Blogger | Report as abusive

pakistan is happy making friends with US, but what they dont know is they had already made a death wish by doing that, to realise that see the history of US with pakistan, initially they started on good note with lot of aid to pakistan over decades, but wheel of fortune has changed for them now, they have started experiencing thunder storms by US now on western border which will lead to total tormoil in pakistan with new chapters begining such as BLA rising, fata & swat achieving their own independence, also giving rise to small autonomous states with US neutralising there nuclear arsenal. question will be , would these small states still live with peace, the answer is simple no, analogy with famous ‘kahavat – kutte ki doom’. So, finally india will have to take control of these small lawless states.

Posted by arun | Report as abusive

@All Paks, all Bloggers

http://www.petitiononline.com/PAK47/peti tion.html

Please review this article by SYED JAMALUDDIN.

He advocates openly and wholehearted disintegration of Pakistan, for the safety of the world.

Posted by Deoband Terrorism Watcher | Report as abusive

A recent study by Top U.S. Defence and Intelligence Specialists says that “Pakistan disappears by 2020, and the Indian Confederation emerges as a regional superstate”.

One more reason for Pakistanis to expatriate to other countries.

Posted by Deoband Terrorism Watcher | Report as abusive

INDIA AND PAKISTAN JUMPING IN NUCLEAR HELL
Sir, If it is due to ignorance that some authors of India ignore the side of nuclear hazards, then they ought to assume reticence, and if it is the result of blinding zeal then it is the zeal ill-applied, very, such people could not be regarded as the friends of India .And if they are the friends, they are very unwise friends. They exhort their countrymen to jump into the atomic hell. Let the people of India and Pakistan know that the Super-powers have enough nuclear fuel to set all the world on fire. A few nuclear war heads of India and Pakistan would not mean much in the universal perspective. Yet from the economic point of view the affair may prove disastrous, and from the political point of view it surely is the harbinger of nuclear misery and atomic destruction.
Hazrat Allama Muhammad Yousuf Gabriel (RA)
QA St. Nawababad Wah Cantt Distt Rawalpindi, Pakistan
Yousuf_gabriel@yahoo.com
http://www.oqasa.org