Obama’s South Asian envoy and the Kashmir conundrum

January 24, 2009

Earlier this month, I wrote that the brief given to a South Asian envoy by President Barack Obama could prove to be the first test of the success of Indian diplomacy after the Mumbai attacks. At issue was whether the envoy would be asked to focus on Afghanistan and Pakistan or whether the brief would be extended to India, reflecting comments made by Obama during his election campaign that a resolution of the Kashmir dispute would ease tensions across the region.

That question has been resolved – publicly at least — with the appointment of Richard Holbrooke as Special Representative for Afghanistan and Pakistan. No mention of India or Kashmir.

India has long resisted overt outside interference in Kashmir and argued – with great vehemence since the Mumbai attacks – that tensions in South Asia were caused by Pakistan’s support for, or tolerance of, Islamist militants rather than the Kashmir dispute.  For India, a public reference to Kashmir following Mumbai would amount to endorsing what it calls cross-border terrorism.

So does that mean the end of the road for efforts to ease tensions in Kashmir? Analysts think not. Unlike British Foreign Secretary David Miliband, who riled India this month by linking security in South Asia to Kashmir, the United States appears to have decided that by keeping quiet in public, it can achieve more in private.

In The Cable, Washington reporter Laura Rozen – who says India’s U.S. lobby worked hard to make sure there was no reference to India in Holbrooke’s brief – quotes Philip Zelikow, a former counselor to Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, as saying the omission might make things easier. “Leaving India out of the title actually opens up (Holbrooke’s) freedom to talk to them,” Zelikow says. In Pakistan’s Daily Times, columnist Ejaz Haider writes that “Obama will not overtly offend India by putting in place a special envoy for Afghanistan-Pakistan-India. But discerning analysts in New Delhi know the fine print.” Indian analyst Raja Mohan made a similar point when he wrote before Holbrooke’s appointment that, “although in deference to New Delhi’s objections, Obama might not name Kashmir as part of the special envoy’s mandate, reworking the India-Pakistan relationship will be an inevitable and important component of his initiative.”

And India may actually be less defensive about U.S. involvement in Kashmir than it was when Obama first raised the idea. It has since concluded elections in the state of Jammu and Kashmir, conducted in conditions of relative peace that many reckon would not have been possible without the active cooperation of Pakistan in restraining militants from disrupting the polls. 

There’s a window of opportunity there that Raja Mohan says should persuade India to embrace U.S. involvement in the region, but on its own terms. “India has no reason to deny that during the Kargil war with Pakistan in the summer of 1999, the military confrontation with Islamabad during 2001-02, and in the effort to pressure Pakistan after the Mumbai terror attacks, the US role has been a positive one.”

India’s terms, especially with a parliamentary election coming up in India, are likely to include a requirement that the United States avoids public involvement in Kashmir. Instead, Raja Mohan is quoted as saying in this article, it should help create the conditions in Pakistan for a resumption of back-channel diplomacy between India and Pakistan that before Mumbai was beginning to bear fruit.

The United States appears to have conceded the first point by quietly dropping public references to Kashmir following the Mumbai attacks. Can Holbrooke now pull off the much trickier task of working behind the scenes to reach private understandings to ease tensions in the region?

(Photo: U.S. President Barack Obama speaks at the State Department in Washington January 22, 2009. From left are Richard Holbrooke, envoy to Pakistan and Afghanistan, Vice President Joe Biden, Obama, Secretary of State Hillary Clinton and Mideast envoy George Mitchell/Kevin Lamarque)

Comments

++++Every un-selfish person in India and Pakistan would agree.

- Posted by Khalid +++++

As an unselfish person will you listen to the people of Balochistan (occupied Kalat) and give them freedom?

Are you still hanging your fantasy hats on outdated resolutions passed by an ill-informed UN some 61 years ago?

 

Pakistan has advantage over India
M. J. Akbar | Arab News 25 Jan 2009

Foreign policy is not made in a day, much less on inauguration day. The smiles that broke out in Delhi when President Barack Obama cautioned Pakistan that nonmilitary aid would be cut if it did not curb domestic terrorism were premature. In any case, it is military aid rather than civilian aid to Islamabad which should be of more concern to Delhi, but the government in Delhi has become so dependent on the United States that it gets pleased with very little. An inaugural speech can only be peppered with markers that will slowly be fleshed into policy. But amateurs in Delhi have rushed to judgment where professionals fear to tread.

There was an air of simulation in the bluster with which Pakistan reacted. The boys of Islamabad know a charade when they see it; they are experts in the game themselves, after all. They don’t need spectacles to read between the lines of Obama’s South Asia policy.

Obama, still brimming with the audacity of hope, has promised peace all over the world and war in one corner: Afghanistan. Pakistan is not very competent in the disbursement of peace. Its expertise lies in the dissemination of war, by declaration or proxy, on enemy territory or the land of friends. And now of course it is fighting more than one war on its own soil. Pakistan knows that America cannot fight in Afghanistan without force, intelligence and logistical support provided by Pakistan. As long as this material situation does not change, America needs Pakistan more than Pakistan needs America. Pakistan has decided to not merely extract a financial price for this support, but also a political price.

London and Washington already know what the price is, and are getting ready to pay it in some abbreviated form. Pakistan has begun with a tremendous advantage over India in the Washington diplomatic game. It engaged with the Obama campaign and the transition team, while Indian diplomats, taking their cue from Dr. Manmohan Singh’s near-obsessive love for George W. Bush, concentrated totally on Bush and the Republicans. This has been a great failure of foreign policy for which we have already begun to suffer. Pakistan has persuaded key advisers of Obama that it cannot fight the Taleban with its full resources as long as it has to simultaneously defend its border with India. The Indian threat can only be lowered with a resolution of the Kashmir issue. Therefore, it is time America and Britain persuaded India to discuss and settle Kashmir.

In an extraordinary maneuver, Pakistan turned around the Mumbai terror attack, organized on its soil. From predator, it refashioned itself into a victim. It used the war rhetoric from the Indian government to warn the West that it would pull out of the war against the Taleban. Delhi’s hot air proved doubly insipid. It did not frighten Pakistan one bit, but it scared the wits out of Washington and London, who rushed to Delhi and leaned on it. Delhi succumbed. India has lost twice over through Mumbai. It has become a laughing stock at security conferences. And it has allowed what could have been a diplomatic coup against Pakistan to become a diplomatic coup against India. This is incompetent governance, not just abysmal security.

British Foreign Secretary David Miliband was audacious enough to contradict India’s prime minister on Indian soil, by saying that the terrorist attack was not sponsored by the Pakistan government, and that India had better do something about the core cause, Kashmir. Instead of snubbing him, Rahul Gandhi, Congress’ proxy prime minister, took Miliband for some private tourism of poverty. British correspondents in Delhi have applauded Miliband for telling it like it is, throwing in a sentence that this is going to be Obama’s line as well.

Hillary Clinton, the incoming secretary of state, has already enunciated the Obama doctrine at her confirmation hearings in the Senate. The “hard power” of Bush will be replaced by “smart power.” This has been defined as the application of a “full range of tools … diplomatic, economic, military, political, legal and cultural” in the pursuit of American interests. Pentagon awe will be accompanied by nudge and arm-twist. By the time the twisting is over, Delhi might need a heavy bandage on the elbow.

Obama’s policy toward South Asia will be controlled by the compulsions of a war he wants to win in a hurry, before fatigue and a rising death toll turn it into another Iraq, or, worse, Vietnam. The battlefield will not be Afghanistan alone. American forces might soon have to fight in the western half of Pakistan, from Karachi to Swat, which is already being christened Talibanestan (the eastern half still remains Pakistan). Americans have reached that curious state of mind in which they want to win wars without losing soldiers. Their military research is concentrating on the robotization of the armed forces where even the infantry could become mechanical instead of human. But that is a long way ahead. The war for Afghanistan will be won or lost long before that.

Muslims across the world are taking comfort in the semantics of Obama’s initial remarks. After being misbespoken to for eight years, it must be a relief to hear correct grammar. Some of them have taken partial ownership of his presidency because he used his middle name, Hussein, while taking the oath. But the issue is not what Obama says. It is what he does.

Will he be able to get a resolution to Palestine except on harsh Israeli terms? Even if we ignore his campaign rhetoric — he could hardly afford to alienate the most powerful lobby in the United States — there are powerful interests protecting the expansionist reach of Israel. At all events, it will not be easy. Neither will be a victory in Afghanistan. As pressure mounts on him, he will be tempted to mount pressure on India through Kashmir.

It is going to be a complicated game, which might drift endlessly to a point where every side looks like a loser. Hope needs to be handled very carefully if it wants to remain audacious.

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive
 

How to shut the idiots up simple: Press the RED button on their forhead haha lol

I think the ISI should come into play since they are always blamed for ALL incident that take place in India. It should help every sepratist movemnet in India milatary or by any means possible and looking at indian security forces in action in mumbai I thought they were the laughing stock of the world with their long field rifles used to fight close quarter fighting terrorist.

ISI should use any means Not only to defame india but use any means to hurt india. “Latto kay Hindu bato say nahi mantay”. So put them to their place first the incompotent army with incompotent security forces unable to control ten kids in three whole long days. If I was a indian I would be ASHAMED at my security forces, government of which they are so proud of. My foot mini superpower and can NOT even protect its own citizens nor give right to whole of its citizens as exposed many times by different media BBC/Al jazeera.

Blow every indian building in afghnistan that is used to promote anti Pakistan properganda. If Indian were in our situation it would have alreday aliennated half of afghans against us. But it is only us who have so much patience with this bully neighour that does not know how to give righhts to its own people equaly or to treat its neighour with respect.

My foot mother of all democracies more or less mother of all terrorists. The world is NOT blind to the burning of the churches, mosques and ill teatment of all dalits. You always write fairy stories of india as being democratic where all have rights but how come we do not see this on media infact totaly opposite.

We Pakistanis are NOT blind like idiots well beileved what they are fed and even to this day NEVER beluived there is EVEN a problem in IOK. I mean when idiots dont want to even understand other point of view or he acceptence of reality tat india army is seen in Kashmir is occupiers just like the Isralis in Gaza. Nothing can change the facts so get the F… out of the valley before the incompotent army does NOT have anywhere to run cowards, rapists, murderers, idiots and indians thats what you well majority.

Personaly Muslims should have put these stupid idiots to their place but we beleive in equality and no force conversation and thats why your mandars and monkey gods are still intacts. Surely the Muslim had plenty of time to sort you out and maybe we SHOULD HAVE!!!

Posted by Ali | Report as abusive
 

aahhh
the “liberal” and “peace loving” face of pakistan!
Thank you ali for bringing out the real pakistan to us.

With all due respect to MJ Akbar. Yes the foreign policies are not made in a day but then are we not witnessing a change in US foreign policy towards pakistan? Engaging Russia in Afghanistan, opening up alternate supply routs for NATO, reminding Pak of the stick that comes with the carrot. And to top it all, the outburst of Haqqani that Pak will review all its options if pressed around. Thus this not tell of some changes going on in private and public domain of US foreign policies.

Myra.
May be you can also post a separate article on Indus water treaty and baghliar dam. I saw some paki making grievances. Some Indian defense experts are now suggesting using the Indus water treaty to drill some sense in Pakistan. Not much is available on net also except for some news clippings.

Posted by chirkut | Report as abusive
 

U welcome for my opnions and you all idiots know truth hurts and no wonder as soon as some one mention UN resoulution in Kashmir you indian start running arounf like headless chickens.

India shuld be put to its place which is a war mongering south asian country which has problem with all its neighours not onoy that and it likes to pop its nose in everyones internal affairs. For example look at sri lanka helping to arms tamils agianst the government there and india should be held also for its actions. Helping BLA and various other terrorist elemnts within Pakistan too and in return they full full co-operation my FOOT go to HELL.

Get your own house in order first before you start fingr wagging which is the only thing india is good at. Making lies, opressing human rights, buring all religious buildings, opressing minorites not only that even marginlising the dalits. So first give rights to your dalit brothers i mean if you cant even do that the indian muslims r christians do not have a hope.

Posted by Ali | Report as abusive
 

Dear Myra,

It is true that Kashmir dispute needs to be resolved, but first let us understand , which Kashmir , all the interested parties talking about ? Can we afford to overlook the recently concluded elections in Kashmir? More than 65% of the population of J&K participated in this election despite terror threats , now the point arises here is the which Kashmir people are talking about? The Kashmir under occupation of Pakistan of part of the Kashmir gifted to China by Pakistan? Can US guarantee all the hostilities between India and Pakistan will cease once the Kashmir dispute is resolved?

Posted by Manish | Report as abusive
 

Please shun hatred and let us start working togather for the peace and harmony of south-asia. Religon, caste, color and other stereotypes have made us slaves at the mental level.SO we all must emancipate ourselves from the mental slavery and work for the betterment of human lives by making a way to offer ourselves honor,dignity,equality and justice. Please stop this hatred for the sake of that GOD whome you beleive.

Saudagar

Posted by Saudagar | Report as abusive
 

Umair wrote:
“the moment we ditch Kashmir, Pakistan is gone.”

I would say the moment “Pakistan gets Kashmir, Pakistan is Gone.”

There is nothing but Kashmir ISSUE which glues pakistan together. If you get it there will be no issue which can bind you. Your people are so divided that pakistan will disintegrate soon. Moreover terrorists created by you on kashmir issue will be out of business, and what will your army do after you get it.

You better pray not to get kashmir.

Posted by punjabiyaar | Report as abusive
 

Manish –

We are talking about Indian Occupied Kashmir where women n girls are raped by your incompotent army. By staging elections in IOK does NOT give you the right to kashmir just as by having election in Iraq did not give iraq to USA. So grow up you delhi school boy and get bit more knowledge in your thick head. But obviously an diot can only have idiotic views which are quite clear for everyone to view.

Azad kashmir is NOT opressed ever been there? People have hope and are modern, liberal, hospitable and we are NOT under any occupation. Unless like our brothers who come from the Indian Occupied kashmir tell us what your army is upto and is nOT what the international media is saying. If they were so good and friendly surley we would NOT hear the calls for Azadi.

But that is the fact n you idiots can NOT either hear it or dont want to hear or maybe half of you have hearing problems. If there was no problems we would not have UN resolution on Kashmir or your beloved Nehru promising to have a peblicite.

The truth can NOT be hiden and even a idiots will realise that. Over 60years occupation and staged election and puppet regimes did NOT tilt kashmir indian way. How can it when people of kashmir are part of people of Pakistan in everyway and dont have anything in common with the idiots.

No woneder Mr Miliband told you idiots Kashmir must be resolved with the wishes of the kashmiris and all you and your muppet leaderst started protesting running shouting. Dont worry time to give kashmir to kashmiris and end of and go to hell or where ever you want.

We Kashmiris dont want the Indian rapists, murderers, occupiing forces there. If you dont believ me go and visit kashmir and ask the locals thanks

Posted by Ali | Report as abusive
 

…We Kashmiris dont want the Indian rapists, murderers, occupiing forces there. If you dont believ me go and visit kashmir and ask the locals thanks…


Indian: Do you want Kashmir to be part of India or Pakistan.
Kashmiri: INDIA.
Indian: Why not Pakistan?
Kashmiri: We fear that they may sell off our lands to China as they did before with Asaki chin.

All comments and conversations above are copyrighted ©

Posted by Blogger | Report as abusive
 

India is a terrorist country,that supports terrorism in Pakistan

Posted by Qasim | Report as abusive
 

Myra,

The US has rightly de-hyphenated, at least in public, Kashmir from Pakistan and Afghanistan. These issues are different with different actors involved in it. Mr Holbrooke may play an almost invisible role in Kashmir to ensure that the focus on the western border of Pakistan is not weakened. We’ve to wait and watch how the cards are played in the months to come. In the end, the Kashmir dispute will be resolved only by India, Pakistan and Kashmiris.

You asked, “Do you, and other people posting comments here, believe the United States will apply the same formulae to South Asia/Pakistan/India/Kashmir that it followed in the Balkans?”
No. I don’t believe one can use the same formulae in South Asia as those used in the Balkans. But I will also be little cautious for my own reasons. In the sub-continent, the meddling from the west has often resulted in catastrophic screw-ups. We’ve seen very often that the solutions designed in the board-rooms of Washington DC or London have not given the intended results.

You asked, “Does Britain, with its large South Asian community, have a rather different stake in security cooperation with India and Pakistan than the United States?”
Britain may have a different view than the US because of its own security and electoral necessities. We also have to look at the fact that 75% of major terrorist plots in the UK originate from Pakistan. The UK cannot help but have a stake in the security of South Asia – particularly Pakistan. We’ve recently seen that in return for 6 mill pounds Pakistan has allowed the UK secret services to open a base to track terrorists in Pakistan.

Posted by Nikhil | Report as abusive
 

Myra,

The issues raised in your blogs are very pertinent, but the kind of language used here looses the importance of such an important topic , is there a way , you can monitor the comments and language ?

Posted by Manish | Report as abusive
 

India will not throw the Kashmiris to the wolves across the border. Secular India has huge populations of Muslims, Christians, Buddists, Sikhs, Zorastrians and so on; why should it gift land to Pak, with its own muslim population larger than that of Pak, that is .
Miliband is suffering from an inferiority complex; he did not see much of the snake charmers during his recent trip, but instead, he saw India that has charmed the entire planet. British papers claimed Indian business will keep Britain form recession. Milliband will grow up.
US will not see India through British eyes, US wants the largest democracy on its side. US is aware that Russians are waiting impatiently to tell India ‘see, we told you. You can not trust them!’
I do support talks, though. Talk is cheap.

 

@ God Fearing and Peace Loving Ali

Holy Koran says , “Do not insult the gods of others, otherwise you are indirectly insulting your God”

Islam is being desecrated not by extremists but by the silence of moderate Muslims

“Backward thoughts that are incompatible with Islam have no place in the Islamic world or in the current world at all”

Former Iranian President Mohammad Khatami

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/ 4703260.stm

January 25th, 2009
4:27 pm GMT

How to shut the idiots up simple: Press the RED button on their forhead haha lol

I think the ISI should come into play since they are always blamed for ALL incident that take place in India. It should help every sepratist movemnet in India milatary or by any means possible and looking at indian security forces in action in mumbai I thought they were the laughing stock of the world with their long field rifles used to fight close quarter fighting terrorist.

ISI should use any means Not only to defame india but use any means to hurt india. “Latto kay Hindu bato say nahi mantay”. So put them to their place first the incompotent army with incompotent security forces unable to control ten kids in three whole long days. If I was a indian I would be ASHAMED at my security forces, government of which they are so proud of. My foot mini superpower and can NOT even protect its own citizens nor give right to whole of its citizens as exposed many times by different media BBC/Al jazeera.

Blow every indian building in afghnistan that is used to promote anti Pakistan properganda. If Indian were in our situation it would have alreday aliennated half of afghans against us. But it is only us who have so much patience with this bully neighour that does not know how to give righhts to its own people equaly or to treat its neighour with respect.

My foot mother of all democracies more or less mother of all terrorists. The world is NOT blind to the burning of the churches, mosques and ill teatment of all dalits. You always write fairy stories of india as being democratic where all have rights but how come we do not see this on media infact totaly opposite.

We Pakistanis are NOT blind like idiots well beileved what they are fed and even to this day NEVER beluived there is EVEN a problem in IOK. I mean when idiots dont want to even understand other point of view or he acceptence of reality tat india army is seen in Kashmir is occupiers just like the Isralis in Gaza. Nothing can change the facts so get the F… out of the valley before the incompotent army does NOT have anywhere to run cowards, rapists, murderers, idiots and indians thats what you well majority.

Personaly Muslims should have put these stupid idiots to their place but we beleive in equality and no force conversation and thats why your mandars and monkey gods are still intacts. Surely the Muslim had plenty of time to sort you out and maybe we SHOULD HAVE!!!
- Posted by Ali

Posted by pluralist | Report as abusive
 

India has special enimity with Pakistan, and they follow the Nehru philosiphy towards their neibour. The following events over the 6 decades will give some idea’s to readers:

1-After partisan (India/Pakistan) they immediately send troops to Kashmir, Hyderabad (Deccan) Junagarh (Gujrat) and occupied these states by force though according to the partisan terms these Muslim dominated states should go to Pakistan.

2- 1965 they waged war to weak Pakistan.
3- 1971 they support Muqti Bahabnees in East Pakistan and ultimately send their 300thousand troops to fight Pakistan Army, also on secret mission they ask some munafiq muslim to hijake Indian Airline plane to Pakistan so they can make it issue and stop Pakistan’s air routes.
4- In 1974 they tested first nuclear device close to Pakistan border.
5- In 1998 they made another experiment of nuclear bomb which ultimaly compell Pakistan to follow its own.

Now, they are making hue and cry about Mombay attack, we as a ordinary persons are not sure whether those attacker were Pakistani or it is an another tactic of India to make Pakistan further weak in the eyes of World community.

Posted by Al Baloushi | Report as abusive
 

Raj said: “Are you still hanging your fantasy hats on outdated resolutions passed by an ill-informed UN some 61 years ago?”

I fully agree with Raj and like to add that UN would do a great favor to everyone by reevaluating that stinking REsolution )whose each article is descarated) having an entirely new resolution since:
1. world has changed,
2. Kashmir demographics have changed,
3. There is whole history (of overt and covert wars between India and Pak) that cannot be undone by any deal,
4. People opting for a Kashmir “with India”, “with Pakistan” or “independent” Kashmir ballott is insufficient to bring peace now.
5. Above all the India and Pak of some 61 yrs are not the same.
6. The deal cannot be made between parties that have lost mutual trust–needs a long time to rebuild that–another 10-50yrs and still ????. Here Pakistan has been the major culprit.
7. Above all “who is a Kashmiri” ? answer has changed
Thus there is a need for a new UN resolution

If it really about Kashmiris, rather than about the blood rushing through our “jugular”, it can be done.

Answer would be something like having
Kashmir of India and Kashmir of Pakistan with special status but under the control of India and pakistan.

If it can happen in 1947 to Punjab–Pakistani Punjab and Indian Punjab, why not to Kashmir.

let people in 2 kashmirs progress at their own pace. See no one sees Indian Punjab the way Pakistan Punjab is talked about?

IT IS TIME FOR CHANGE

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive
 

A joke (Courtesy Ali)

“Azad kashmir is NOT opressed ever been there? People have hope and are modern, liberal, hospitable and we are NOT under any occupation.”:-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-)

Ali, Be careful no Kashmiri from POK is around you!!!

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive
 

….Now, they are making hue and cry about Mombay attack, we as a ordinary persons are not sure whether those attacker were Pakistani or it is an another tactic of India to make Pakistan further weak in the eyes of World community….

– You ordinary people are not aware of anything except to claim and terrorize everywhere in India and say it’s an Indian tactic.
Isn’t there a limitation to ignorance?

Posted by Blogger | Report as abusive
 

@Qasim: oops! world is saying exactly the same thing about your country. See if pakistan was peace loving country and not a terrorist one, than everyone would have seen peace in your country which is exactly not happening infact you should have made a lot of progress since ur independence, which is also not true. But other way round your countries’ organizations keep getting banned, obama admn still wants to keep its policy on strikes as similar to prev admn. everyone wants to have nuke deal with india not with pakistan y ?
See instead of steering all ur money time effort on T-ism, E-ism, u guys shud really start living peacefully.

Posted by arun | Report as abusive
 

@ pakis talking about dam for chenab river.. stop being cry babies..You simply cannot ask the dam to be destroyed..it is built for the development of people of kashmir…Once you say it is violation of Indus water treaty then you yourself are undoing the decades of work or your ISI to induce seperatist movements in kashmir..when people in Indian Kashmir gets into a mindset that pakis dont want development in Kashmir..Sorry..check-mate !!

and @ pakis who think Pakistan the only Islamic country having Nuclear weapons..I say you are completely wrong or just not informed.. As soon Iran started processing Uranium and started construction of Nuclear plants..Saudi silently purchased Nuclear capable missiles from China and nuke explosives from pakistan with its petro dollars and has built missile city in saudi, which has about 5 dozen missiles ready to be launched anytime with 2 chinese make missile launchers and has 3 building built to house the people who take care of this missile city. US very well knows this but has refrained to make it public because Saudi is close US ally and pakis are still needed to fight terror..one more feather to pakis and chinese cap of nuclear proliferation.

Posted by Anitha | Report as abusive
 

If you believe in GOD then how can u not believe in evil….World is being run by 100 or max 150 people and rest all watch. The ultimate complexity will be reached. No one is happy …well for long. Its easy to write but to be there and see …well …its a different story. In my job of taking out people from rubble ..I have seen the miseries…. people don’t understand till we loose someone who is our own…then everything changes …all logic ..all big statements…what remains is the memories and a horrible thought if things could have been different. So take my advise….if you haven’t seen anything so far which is as terrible as joining the blood soaked body parts of ur own kids …pls shut up and pray ….nothing else is more worth while. War is bad but it has become a business. can we stop the Greed..perhaps not….but hope is the only hope

Posted by Allah or GOD or Bhagwan | Report as abusive
 

Pakistan-Afghanistan(osama is somewhere there)
India-China(asia’s fastest growing economies,space race,tech nationalism etc etc)

I suggest Pakis stop their public dreams of being equated with India and try hard to catch up with Bangladesh instead which btw has far better social indicators than Pakistan does.comeon u can do it!!

Posted by Shantanu Chatterjee | Report as abusive
 

I read some filthy comments from some of the commentators on this topic. I feel Mr.Chattege is living in other world. If Indian are claiming as major force in the region (militrily and financially) than how is it possible that ten persons entered their major business centre and made havoc. Or if they know the real culprit why they did not go after them whosoever. Hye Hye Hye to do that they have to think not twice but thrice.

Posted by Al Baloushi | Report as abusive
 

Dear blogger, we are not ignorant, just go and read the UN Resolution of 1949, it will give you the right information about ignorance.

Posted by Al Baloushi | Report as abusive
 

@Al Baloushi,
Well talking about History, I love it. Btw where you before 1947?

Now about UN, come on don’t joke, they simply couldn’t stop Israel looks like UNnecessary.

Posted by Blogger | Report as abusive
 

dear pak friends, look around u. see the country’s economy its nothing without US money. Look how chaotic your surrounding has become. Compare it with some 15 or 20 years back. The law and order is soon to be in the hands of those fanatic taliban. Its right under ur nose and if you dont see it even now one fine day they will declare a part of pakistan as talibanistan. And still some of you will be dreaming of a kashmir belonging to pakistan.
Terrorism was created by the US to tackle the soviet and they suceeded.
Pakistan created a same kind of little devil to get kashmir and even disintegrate india. But if the people of pakistan dont act now the little devil will become a big monster that the govt of pak will not be able to contain. If the US withdraw their support to the pak govt.(both military/and money) it will be just a matter of time that the monster will be incharge.
I dont justify that killing of innocent lives for any reason(read purohits case), but have you noticed that the so called “hindu terrorist” the biased BBC mentioned did not exist till recent few years. But the islamic terrorism was started long time back.
I am not saying that India is a saint nation.
Every nation on this earth will act for themselves only, to fulfill its own need. The path are different. But due to international commitment to peace they act differently post World War 2.
All that the people of pak can do is opt for talibanisation (by holding on to kashmir no matter what happens to pakistan both ecomonically or politically) or forget all hatred to india and look for an optimistic
relationship with india(by which both the economies flourish together). Forget the past and lets move on.
Convert the Line of Control as international border.

Give a chance to peace.

Posted by Just another Indian | Report as abusive
 

No one can talk India to liberate Kashmir. No leadership in India will want to liberate Kashmir. Its because out of the 1.16 billion population of India,at least 1 billion see Kashmir as an integral part of India. Even though out of sheer chance,if a leader in India gives at least an hint for the Kashmir liberation,that’s it!,that will be his/her death bed in the democracy of India.

Kashmir looks like its a lost cause for the unstable Pakistan-a nation unfit to defend its own territory in SWAT let alone Kashmir. Pakistan should behave reasonably as it did recently by not interfering in the state elections in Kashmir. At this juncture of time,its safe for the Kashmiris to be with India else they will have to face the holocaust of Talibanization.

Posted by mitchell | Report as abusive
 

Pakistan should take a leaf out of India’s book and should brutally defend SWAT the same way as how the Indians brutally crushed and are still crushing the Pakistan based infiltration in Kashmir. Pakistan has a disease,let Pakistan cure itself out of that disease and if it become healthy once again,it can think of fighting India for Kashmir. If in the same diseased state did it fight with its neighbor for Kashmir,it will only succumb in the end.

Posted by mitchell | Report as abusive
 

“Well, it (Kashmir) is not in his (Holbrooke) mandate,” State Department spokesperson Robert Wood told reporters at his daily press briefing.

“With regard to Kashmir, I think our policy is well-known. I think India has some very clear views as to what it wants to do vis-a-vis, you know, dealing with the Kashmir issue, as well as the Pakistanis,” Wood said.

http://www.ndtv.com/convergence/ndtv/sto ry.aspx?id=NEWEN20090081612

i couldn’t find out the original article. it will be nice if some one does that and post it here.

Posted by basu | Report as abusive
 

Why do you need America to assist in the Kashmir issue? What the Indian and Pakistan government should do is to work together to route out terrorism and strengthen economic ties(even in the midst of terrorism. Why? America is like the old British empire, they want to play the card of divide and rule. With a economy thats going south for Pakistan this solution will be in the best interest of both countries. AMERICA LEAVE KASHMIR ALONE. It is part of India and will remain so!!No need for another partition of India. Americans are flooding Pakistan with weapons and cash, why? To create instability in the area. Thats what Americas’ job is.
Its odd, India is the World’s only true democracy and largest democracy(true multi party elections)unlike the two party democracy in US.If America wants to create democracies, they are not setting a good example in Pakistan by given them $$. The American $$ are going to Pakistan are ending up in Osama’s coffers and Talibans. Everyone knows OSAMA is in Pakistan. For years now, the US military claims it can spot a needle in a haystack with its military superiority, WHERES OSAMA a six foot man???

Posted by rupen | Report as abusive
 

Dear Blogger,

You loved history, so do not forget Mughals rules India for centuries. Also you start commenting about ignorance not us. India is weak country therefore instead of facing the challenges they keep blaming neibours. Also they beleived on dirty politics.

Posted by Al Baloushi | Report as abusive
 

I appreciated the comments of Rupen, we India/Pakistan are matured enough to solve our old problems and should start working for the benefit of our peoples who (two third) living below poorety level. As far as Osama is concern he lives in Kabul, Afghanistan, and Indian Diplomats visits him regularly for mutual consultation.

Posted by Al Baloushi | Report as abusive
 

Al Baloushi

I see you a big help here on the forum. Cut this crap of “Mughals rules India for centuries.” and “India is weak country” and move on with the piece you got-I mean little Mughal rule over Pakistan.

India has shown that it is strong enough for its defense in overt war and now you start this covert war using JIHADI COwards (check with a competent Religious guy about what is Jihad not follow LeT types). Using those 10 Jihadi girls in Mumbai is a big bravery? Stop applauding them and turn to your west, Taliban company is coming to get you-I wish they don;t. Be sincere to yourself and to your generations—-ISI is the culprit and has destroyed Pakistan and you do not even know its deeds. India is big enough–rulers came, merged or left–you chose one path in 1947-so stick to that. wishing you a Happy Mughal Rule over Pakistan including FATA/SwAT!

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive
 

Thank you Rajeev, atleast u guy wakeup, FATA is semi government area, still they make their own guns and fight their enemies, Swat is part of Pakistan, however they are copying the tactics which are being applied in Assam, Telungu, Tripura, Naxalies or Naxatlies and Moist. But we have the power and patients to corner them without asking USA, RUSSIA OR EUROPEAN UNION, as did the India after Bombay incident. Just to correct u we never support Bombay like carnage, it is against our culture and history.

Posted by Al Baloushi | Report as abusive
 

Al Baloushi,
Do not take it personally. It is ISI culture and history then supporting MUmbai attacks–perhaps no legal evidence but sure all the evidence 1 can have in such cases. ask your conscious, if you still think ISI is innocent, you got lot of work to do. But there is enough evidence for anyone to state that LeT guys did that. May not be enough yet to say ISI did. If LeT did it is time to punish them. the policy of ISI to support LeT is going to bite Pak–not ISI you guys. The common man ahs to face the consequences of the wrong policy of the govt. Pak common man (or should I say woman) is already feeling that due to Taliban—the ISI creation (Hamid Gul etc and Pasha are safe but not the common man). ISI created Taliban and is now creating trouble in Pak is already written down. Same pattern is with LeT and other such grps.
In India, there are sure problems but India is not exporting terrorists as state policy–that’s the difference between India and pak. It is this precise reason that world looks at India as responsible nation unlke Pak–Nuclear material export to N. Korea and Libya, top scientists are unethical enough to not talk collaborate with terrorists. AQ Khan is not the only culprit. (ask for link on role of pak/wmd/terrosts report—I have a link if you did not see already. It is US report.
Quit this empty MUGHAL RULE statements, India has more than 1 Pak full of MUslims. India has 80% HIndus but culture and history tells India to boast about SECULAR rule, not about Religion-based rule. India has more than 1 Pak full of MUslims. India has 80% HIndus but culture and history tells India to talk about SECULAR rule, not about Religion-based rule. Now do this—imagine pak in India’s shoes (80% Musllims and 15% Hindus) and you know this 15% would have been 0-1%. why I said so?—compare the % growth in Hindus in pak and Muslims in India. And also compare what Indian Muslims achieved and what Pak Hindus achieved. This is the difference between India and pak—in culture and History. It is about BROHERHOOD—–not just MUSLIM BROTHERHOOD.
You said: “we have the power and patients to corner them without asking USA, RUSSIA OR EUROPEAN UNION,”
Oh yeah—show your power rather than eat world’s $ and not do the job. I can see the power from news channels—how many Pak security forces guys do not want to even go there—Scared of Taliban;s beheadings. You have been with USA since cold war and before—and the power you showed so far is creating Militants. Asking “USA, RUSSIA OR EUROPEAN UNION,” is called diplomacy to deal with Pakistan—it is what normally mature and responsible nations do.
Nuf for one serving.

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive
 

@Al Baloushi,
India is weak…. LMAO….
Despite the Pakistan proxies we see Indian emerging, despite proxy promotions we are seeing Pakistan dissolving.
60 saal kahan ham kahan tum?

Mughals destroyed India, don’t put a false propaganda of ruling India. BTW there is ‘Hindustan’ do we have any ‘Mughalistan’, ‘Islamistan’ ?

Posted by Blogger | Report as abusive
 

To all those really concerned about the Kashmir:
1. What is Kashmir? Is it the Kashmir of 1947?
Kashmiris does not mean only Muslims. Convenient Amnesia?–Kashmir is the homeland of Kashmiri Pundits (KP) too. Recall genocide/exodus of Kashmiri Pundits? Kashmiri Hindus were asked to choose between Convert, Flee or Perish. “agar Kashmir me rahna hei, to allah ho akbar kahna hei” slogan was sung at that time. More than 500,000 fleed and many killed. Demographics changed-so no plebiscite.
2. Why did Kashmiri Pundits leave? ISI-backed terrorists commit atrocities (murder/house burning/rape-forced conversion to Islam) on KPs. Clearly, Kashmiri Muslims did not support their fellow minority Hindu brother/sisters. Such was not the case during Punjab terrorism when Sikhs/Hindus supported each other and are now deservedly co-existing together.
4. Why Indian Army and other paramilitary forces now? Ask ISI & terrorists.
5. Does India care about Kashmir? Oh Yes. Unlike bogus Azad Kashmir and Pak sucking POK resources like leaches, Indian Kashmiris have separate constitution, a separate flag, full rights granted under the Indian constitution to freedom of speech, religion, press, assembly, the relief from taxes, and the sole right to own property in their state and lot more development. Who runs POK –Pak Punjabi PM) and CM of J&K is Kashmiri. So where is the oppression—in POK. Kashmiris are more rights than anyone else in India.
6. Do Kashmiris want peace? Elections (not bogus or forced) with good turnout show that they do. Let the political system evolve.
7. Is old UN resolution relevant now? It stinks. No same Kashmir—so what UN resolution?
8. Is independent Kashmir viable? No, it does not have any signs of a viable nation that can progress.
9. Are LeT type gps real Jihadis? No they are professional terrorists (mostly Pakistanis). SLOGAN “ONE PERSON’S TERRORIST IS ANOTHER’S FREEDOM FIGHTER” IS OUTDATED AND MUCH EXPLOITED. Quit it. Who are the real freedom fighters?—-Gandhi, Patel, Azad, Bhagat Singh and the list goes on…… who targeted the enemy not the innocents. The so-called Jihadis are terrorists who don’t care if they kill innocents, rather they specially target innocents. Calling them freedom fighters is insult to the principles of democracy and freedom. A nation cannot be built on these foundations. It will be a still birth.
10. Would “Independent Kashmir” stop this violence? No—because terrorists have a declared agenda (establish Islam rule over India) much larger than a free Kashmir. Who cam give guarantee of peace—no one—so what’s the point.

An independent Kashmir, without all its true inhabitants (Muslims&Pundits and others) at gun point by professional killers and no guarantee of drop in violence and at the cost of security risk to India—NO way.
Only possible UN resolution is to have a Kashmir of India and Kashmir of Pakistan with special status but under the control of India and Pakistan.

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive
 

Arundhati Ghose, a former Indian ambassador to the United Nations, expressed similar views: “You have a commando-style attack on our country, they kill our people, and we are supposed to show restraint? Which other country does that? If there is another attack, we should go in and bomb* the daylights out of them.”

*Does India have enough high tech bombs? That’s one thing that USA did not outsource to India! One reason India is not attacking Pakistan is because Indian intelligence knows that Pakistan has well over 50 nuclear bombs … much more than what India possesses. India abounds in degreed (please don’t use the word educated) buffoons too busy watching Hindi Movies and worshiping Amitabh Bacchhan and his spare parts and suffering from “Hum Kissi se kam nahin” syndrome – yet a high percentage of Indians still want to immigrate to USA. If not immigrate, at least send their sons and daughters to USA for higher education. Why? India – a nation of clowns and morons good for giving lecture only.

Posted by Mastaram | Report as abusive
 

@Mastaram
I agree with you, India should have attacked Pakistan when the first revolver was recovered in 1983 from a Khalistani Terrorist at UAE airport which German authorities certified in writing was from a consignment sold to the Pakistan Army.

But its too late now, things are changed now, Pakistan is already going towards its doom. Why should india bother to kill a sick patient wich is already running to death. Why waste resources and men on such a weak nation.

Posted by punjabiyaar | Report as abusive
 

Dear Blogger/Rupen, you both are right in defending your cause because seems you both are following the Nehru philosophy. One of you said Hindustan still there but do not see Mughlistan, now just see how many Mughlistan are around, Pakistani’s fought USSR and brought these countries on the World map i.e.Turkamanistan, Tajikistan, Ujbikistan, Kyrgistan, Kazikistan, Azerbaijan and if you include Afghanistan PAKISTAN, we are greater than what today’s pooer Hindustan. Another very important point since India is secular nation why are you calling it Hindustran? In our case we are not calling Mughilistan or Muslimistan to our country. Now about weak patient (Pakistan). My dear weak patient do not carry nuclear weapons in hundreds.

Posted by Al Baloushi | Report as abusive
 

@ MAstram
What made you think India sas less nuclear arsenal than Pakistan? Is it your media or your mulla??
Most of the Weapon grade plutonium is generated in Nuclear reactors. India has 14 and Pakistan has just 3 (Khushab chashma and kahuta). Does these numbers indicate anything to you?

Indians migrate to different countries (Not just US/UK but also to Kenya South Africa etc) because india is more globalized country. And Immigrant Indians are respected worldwide because of they are law abiding and progress oriented. That is why Indian diaspora in US is the most successful immigrant community while Pakis diaspora in UK is known for Bradford riots and London Bombings.

Posted by chirkut | Report as abusive
 

@Mastram
Also i think it was ZA bhutto who said Pakistanis will eat grass but will develop nuclear weapon.
How prohphetic i must say..
Now Pakistan is just doing both of it.

Posted by chirkut | Report as abusive
 

Yes chirkut, for maintaining one’s prestige and security some time you have to eat leaves. As per World Bank statistic India’s percapita income $840 & Pakistan is having $820 is there any major diffenrce. Though Indian making lots of hue and cry about their developments and modernization still they were not able to take on 10 aliens who made life paralized in Bombay. Also Indian navy is claiming capturing Somali pirates thousand miles away from their border, but….you understand what I mean.

Posted by Al Baloushi | Report as abusive
 

Dear Al Baloushi and other Pakistani Friends:

What Pakistani reputation to save? You got no worries there since you have no good reputation.

Are you not Ashamed of the reputation/ethical/moral standards of nuclear scientists of Pakistan and the way Pak stole nuclear technology (from Netherlands), acquired from China (A Q Khan was lectured in China; so not indigenous) and above all its irresponsible distribution of nuclear material to N. Korea and Libya (like fire crackers). BTW these are not allegations—these are documented facts. The China-Pak-N Korea-Libya-Algeria-S Arabia nexus is well known—read neutral analysis. If you forget for a moment that Pakistan is a nation, seems like all I sad above is done by some terrorists—-alas it is a nation. Being a nuclear nation is great but the way it is achieved is also as important. Indian technology is indigenous and India has acted responsibly and is thus well respected.
Currently Pakistan is viewed as the world’s largest industry of manufacturing terrorists—a highly indigenous program (Gordon Brown is scared since 75% of the leads in terrorism originate from Pakistan). No wonder everyone is worried right now and giving money to tackle this—BUT WHER IS THE MONEY GOING; COUNTERPRODUCTIVE. See this http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/librar y/report/2008/wmd-prolif-terror-commissi on2-02.htm a US report on WMD including.a special feature “Pakistan: The Intersection of Nuclear Weapons and Terrorism” But we got to be fair to say that innocents Pakistanis are victimized by state policies of using terrorism as policy (again proven). minimum a common Pakistani can realize is that pakistan as a state has been destructive for all. Terrorism as policy is not working anyomore and has come a full circle to hurt pakistan itself.

B

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive
 

Keeping KASHMIR swept under the rug may be a good short term cushion for India, but a bad long term one, for sooner or later Kashmir will HAVE to be solved. In the meantime, they will continue living on pins and needles in India, all the while spending BILLIONS in Kashmir alone.

In fact the KASHMIR chorus is now emanating from every corner of the global leaders, not just Messrs. Obama and Miliband. If you think that Holbrook will leave Pakistan with nothing, well, then you better think again! India has finally put itself under the global microscope.

What is she waiting for next… Bangalore, Madras, Calcutta, etc.

HELLLLLLLLOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!! HELP US HELP YOU!

Posted by N. Javed | Report as abusive
 

Dear Rajeev, before accussing Pakistan and its friends, just look at yours deeds. Most of the Indian nuclear technology and weapons machinery comes from the former USSR. Indra Ghandhi and Braznov’s nexes is well known to the entire world. Do not talk about reputation of Pakistan, if we are so bad people why all these leaders are visiting our country every other day. The fact is that we fought America/European war with former USSR, those warrier who were given the name of Mujahideen now become terrorist. Before 1979 (USSR attached Afghanistan) Pakistan had not such problems and life was quite normal.

Posted by Al Baloushi | Report as abusive
 

…Most of the Indian nuclear technology and weapons machinery comes from the former USSR…

– Great so next time when India drops a missile on Pakistan territory then it will be blamed on USSR.

Didn’t I forgot that most of the Missiles owned by Pakistan were Chinese Missiles renamed with Islamic names..
Next time if Pakistan drops something we will attack China lol
If world goes this way looks great :P

Posted by Blogger | Report as abusive
 

Al Baloushi
…Pakistani’s fought USSR… :P

So many Mughalistan yet Pakistan didn’t get funds for Bail-out.
How did India got with only one Hindustan… Per capita differences….

Posted by Blogger | Report as abusive
 

Before answering my emails you should have read the comments of Mr.Rajeev, you Indians are very good at propaganda’s, and that also without looking at fact and figures. I mean I was replying to rajeev’s statistics which he mentioned proudly and accused us for nexuses with China, Saudi Arabia and other friendly countries. One more and clear message for you and other your like minded peoples, before sending missiles to Pakistan, think not once but thrice…..I hope you understand what I mean.

Posted by Al Baloushi | Report as abusive
 

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