U.S. missile strikes on Pakistan : more of the same under Obama or worse to come?

January 26, 2009

The first U.S. missiles have struck Pakistan since U.S. President Barack Obama  took office, dispelling any possibility that he might relent on these raids that have so angered Pakistanis, many of whom think it only engenders reprisal attacks from militants on their cities.

Pakistani President Asif Ali Zardari protested to the U.S. ambassador over Friday’s twin raids in South and North Waziristan and  newspaper editorialists and commentators are worried this is just a foretaste of things to come. The strikes, the first since Jan 2, have led the Dawn newspaper to recall Obama’s statements during the presidential camapaign when he repeatedly said he would “take out high value terrorist targets” inside Pakistan if it was unable or unwilling to do so.

“Three days into Obama’s presidency, we have the first evidence of how his promise will translate into action. Drone attacks in South and North Waziristan have killed at least 14 people, including what the media now routinely refers to as ‘foreign militants’, ” the newspaper said.

Early signs from Washington suggest that it will continue military action on Pakistan’s Federally Administered Tribal Areas (FATA), considered to be place where al Qaeda has reconstituted itself, the newspaper said.  At the same time it will demand that Pakistan do more against the militants, tying aid to the armed forces with achieving concrete results.

The News wrote that the ‘rather optimistic assurance” given by Prime Minister Yousaf Raza Gilani earlier on that the Predator drone attacks would stop once Obama took charge had been dashed. And it added that it wasn’t clear why or how Gilani made such a statement when he was in no position to issue a guarantee on behalf of the Americans.

The missile attacks, and there have been around 30 over the past year, have caused both physical and psychological damage in Pakistan, it said. But what is the way out? Islamabad must somehow persuade the Americans that fighting the militants on its soil was something best left to Pakistani forces. ”The U.S. decision-makers need to be persuaded of the damage caused by the drone attacks and how they contribute to the growth of militancy,” it said.

Juan Cole writing in Salon.com said that for Obama to bomb Pakistan territory in his very first week in office after promising a civilian-friendly policy focused on human development was ominous.

“This resort to violence from the skies even before Obama had initiated discussions with Islamabad is a bad sign. It is not clear if Obama really believes that the fractious tribes of the Pakistani northwest can be subdued with some airstrikes and if he really believes that U.S. security depends on what happens in Waziristan,” Cole writes in the piece headlined “Obama’s Vietnam?”

 ”If he thinks the drone attacks on FATA are a painless way to signal to the world that he is no wimp, he may find, as Lyndon Johnson did, that such military operations take on a momentum of their own, and produce popular discontents that can prove deadly to the military mission.”

[Photos of a protest in Karachi against U.S. missile strikes, U.S.President Barack Obama and Richard Holbrooke, envoy for Afghanistan and Pakistan, and coffins of a victims of a missile attack in northwest Pakistan]

70 comments

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Sanjeev,
Not a new anyway.

The drones are to awake Pakistan to play a correct war game for what US is funding to Pakistan.

NO to double standards anymore.

Obama started the promos so early and what would be the Movie?

One more link you could have added to an article.
http://www.jamaat.org/news/2009/Jan/24/1 002.html

Posted by Blogger | Report as abusive

One can understand that the drone attacks are inevitable from a US point of view..The CIA very easily assumes when the terror suspects meet together they can only talk about how to make the next attack on US..and it is very diplorable situation when the CIA sitting in US can gather intelligence about the meetings of top terrorists but pakistanis have no idea of foreighners coming in to its country and grouping together..How can anyone in their senses in pakistani govt ask US to stop drone attacks ?? when paki army/intelligence has let them down time and again and continue to do so..
I think its still very early to say Obama do not side pakistanis, if he believes that the incompitence in pakistani action against terrorists is because of only few rouge elements who have soft corner for terrorists..

Anyways..who cares !!We only care for..

Worlds 7th largest country
4th largest Army
3rd largest Railways
2nd higest population
2nd fasted growing economy
2nd in production of Rice and Tea
1st in production of Mica
Worlds largest democracy
Worlds largest work force
Super power by 2020

*** OUR ONE AND ONLY INCERDIBLE INDIA ***
***PROUD TO BE INDIAN ***
*** HAPPY REPUBLIC DAY ***
*** JAI HIND ***

Posted by Anitha | Report as abusive

[...] Obama government enjoys.  Can you imagine that McCain would have gotten an article like this from Reuters? The News wrote that the ‘rather optimistic assurance” given by Prime Minister Yousaf Raza [...]

It is funny how the tribal folk in Pakistan FATA and NWFP get angered and upset when a drone flys by and does its job.

Isn’t anybody telling these guys in Salwar Kameez that Europe, USA, INDIA and democratic countries are under constant attack from Islamic Fundamentalist Terrorism, originating from this Lawless area of Pakistan?

Islamic Terrorists are cowards and cannot fight like men, if they want Jihad, they should come out and quit hiding behind women, children, schools and hospitals, from where they fire their weapons. The tribal people are failing to see that their Al Qaeda friends and Taliban friends are causing collateral damage upon their citizens by being there.

The Obama administration should intensify its drone strikes by 1000% in Pakistan, otherwise it will not have a long lasting effect.

Terrorism in the FATA and NWFP region, should be dealt with, with overwhelming, punishingly heavy, swift, sledgehammer might.

Posted by Global Watcher | Report as abusive

[...] other bloggers are saying: US missile strikes on Pakistan : more of the same under Obama or worse to come? President Obama Ordered The Drone Attack In Pakistan Obama Delivers On Campaign Promise, Attacks [...]

Pakistan launched an attack on India and got exposed. Today she is even less repsected, she is completely at the mercy of donors, US, EU,and China. Her soverignty is being violated, but she is hardly in a position to protest.

All this because of her relentless anti-India hatred. All her suffering could be traced to this persistent trait of hers.

Jumme ke din obama ne nibhaya chumme ka vaada…

Posted by Anup | Report as abusive

The USA can not continue to permit the terrorists to pick the time and place to strike and then run back to Pakistan for sanctuary. We must either defeat the terrorists now or we might as well close shop and bring the troops home.

The US is playing a game with the world which no one understands or don’t want to understand really.What U think war in Pakistan will distrub only Pakistan not at all ,it will repercussions on the entire region including India,which claims it self fastest economy ignoring intencive poverty,4th largest army with no professionalism,2nd high population sleeping on the streets,world largest work force the cheapest and exploited.Dreams are better but day dreams unique for India to be super power in 2020.

Anup wrote:
“Jumme ke din obama ne nibhaya chumme ka vaada…”

Creative one anup.

I agree with anup, another promise was to link Aid and donations with performance. Pakistan is going go die either way, if they support terrorism, death by hunger. If they stop terrorism death by taliban.

Posted by punjabiyaar | Report as abusive

Punjabiyaar
“Pakistan is going go die either way, if they support terrorism, death by hunger. If they stop terrorism death by taliban.”

—They’re so greedy – they probably want to keep both the options for themselves…lol

Posted by Anup | Report as abusive

Anup
b*stard barking again.

anyways Pakistan Air Force chief of staff in late 2008 had issued a statement that Pakistan is fully capable of shooting down CIA drones and that it is a up to the govvernment to decide how to deal with the situation. In 2002 during height of India-Pakistan border standoff a PAF F-16 shot down an (IAI) Israeli Aircraft Industries drone operated by India on the eastern border. The Air weapons complex in Wah, Pakistan manufactures drones for Pakistan Air Force.
At some point in the future, I see Pakistan Air Force
coming into action. Pakistan’s patience with drone attacks is not unlimited, lets see if Obama can coordinate the policies with CIA or these attacks will need to be stopped by (Pakistan Air) force.

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive

Umair
Juan Cole writing in Salon.com said:
“The American bombing of the tribal areas occurs with tacit Pakistani government acquiescence as a result of a secret agreement reached last September, despite the sometimes vehement public denunciations that Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani issues after they’ve occurred.”
http://www.salon.com/opinion/feature/200 9/01/26/obama/index.html

Posted by Anup | Report as abusive

Umair @ barking again comment..
Giving statement to shot down drones is easy but acting on it is not..with that you know who is barking but scared to bite.
If pakistan manufactures drones as you said why aren’t they used like CIA uses for precision strikes ?? or are u just barking again ??
Instead of waiting to see if Obama can coordinate with CIA to stop drones..why cant pak govt coordinate with its army and ask to shoot them down ?? but this never struck your brains..instead you choose to wait for action from obama, simply makes it loud and clear you are all just a barking lot.

Posted by Anitha | Report as abusive

Anitha oh are we?
yeah sure just right after Mumbai attacks when Pakistan mobilized its Air Force and Gen Ashfaq Kayani said we are ready to counterattack within minutes, barking Indian leaders got it straight in their heads and adopted diplomatic option over military action.

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive

Pakistani Land & Sea Based Air Defence
——————————————————————————–

Wednesday, November 26, 2008
PAF can stop drone attacks: air chief
Says final decision rests with govt, political leadership

By Azeem Samar
http://www.thenews.com.pk/top_story_deta il.asp?Id=18595
KARACHI: Chief of the Air Staff Air Chief Marshal Tanvir Mehmud Ahmad has said the Pakistan Air Force is fully capable of stopping missile attacks by Predators violating the country’s airspace.

“The PAF has the capability of intercepting drones but it is for the government and the political leadership of the country to handle the issue bilaterally, diplomatically or militarily,” the air chief said while talking to the media here on Tuesday.

The chairman joint chiefs of staff committee, the chief of the air staff, the chief of the naval staff and federal ministers were among the national and international dignitaries who visited the International Defence Exhibition and Seminar (IDEAS-2008) being held at the Expo Centre here.

The air chief marshal said the PAF had developed the JF-17 Thunder fighter planes in collaboration with China, as airworthiness of several of its jet fighters was coming to an end. He said the first squadron of JF-17 Thunder fighter aircraft will be formally commissioned in the PAF in the first quarter of the next year while the PAF was also engaged in tactical evaluation of the fourth generation Chinese made FC-20 high-tech multi-role platform.

To a question about the JF-17, the air chief marshal said eight such aircraft had surpassed the expected parameters of tests, which was more than encouraging. In this context, he referred to weapons system and avionics design parameters for the aircraft. He said the PAF was capable of serial production of about 40 to 45 JF-17 fighter planes for which it would require between $750-800 million. The government has been sounded on that and has been requested to secure soft credit from China for achieving this objective.

Meanwhile, Defence Minister Chaudhry Ahmad Mukhtar, during his visit to the IDEAS, informed the media that the country had the capability of shooting down unmanned surveillance planes from air but lacked the capability from the ground. He said the government had been trying to acquire ground-to-air capability against drones from a friendly nation. However, the federal minister did not specify the friendly nation.

Federal Minister for Defence Production Abdul Qayyum Khan Jatoi, during his visit to the IDEAS, said the country would acquire the capability to shoot down surveillance planes flying at high altitude within a year, saying the country possessed radars to detect such high-altitude spy planes.

Meanwhile, Chief of the Naval Staff Admiral Noman Bashir said the IDEAS provided an excellent opportunity to defence industry for display of their products and exhibition of operational features and the interested buyers got multiple options to choose from within. The naval chief was talking to newsmen during his visit to the IDEAS.

The naval chief said the Pakistan Navy had been vigorously pursuing the policy of self-reliance to offset effects of military sanctions Pakistan had faced from time to time.

“Indigenous construction of the Agosta 90-B submarines, gun boats and a number of other platforms bear testimony to this fact,” he said. The contract to build four F-22P frigates with China and the construction of the last one in Pakistan is also a giant leap in this direction. “These frigates would form the backbone and main thrust of the Pakistan Navy,” the naval chief added.

Earlier, Admiral Noman Bashir held meetings with foreign delegations. Chief Executive Officer of DCNS France Jean Marie Poimboefu, Turkeyís Under-Secretary for Defence Industries Murad Bayar, Rear Admiral Erban Akporay, the Deputy Commander of Qatar Emiri Naval Forces Staff Brigadier Khalid Saif Essa Al-Naser, Korean Ambassador Shin Un and the Fleet Commander of Malaysian Navy Vice Admiral Dato Ahmed Kamarulzaman also met the naval chief and exchanged views on common interest.

Chairman Joint Chiefs of Staff Committee Gen Tariq Majid, Federal Minister for Commerce Makhdoom Amin Fahim andDefence Production Secretary Shahid Tirmizi also visited the IDEAS and witnessed the display of latest weapons, ammunition, and defence products by domestic and international companies.

In all, 256 defence-related companies are participating in the IDEAS-2008, including 162 international companies of 58 countries and 94 Pakistani firms of various defence production capacities. Out of 94 Pakistani defence companies, almost 60 per cent are from the private sector.

On Monday, Chief of the Army Staff Gen Ashfaq Parvez Kayani also visited various stalls of the IDEAS and interacted with a cross-section of visitors and delegates. The COAS held separate meetings with various visiting delegates. During the meetings, matters of mutual interest were discussed.

AFP adds: Parliament will hold a session next week to talk about United States missile attacks on militant targets in the northwest of the country, Defence Minister Ahmed Mukhtar said on Tuesday.

“We have summoned a session of parliament on Dec 2 in which we’ll discuss the violations (by the US drones) of Pakistan’s territory, which is an important issue,” Mukhtar told reporters at the international defence exhibition here.

“With the opposition we’ll devise a joint strategy to tackle the issue. Pakistan’s security is much (more) important than any other thing,” Mukhtar said. Mukhtar told reporters that al-Qaeda was “the greatest danger for all of us” and that Pakistan was “paying a huge price while fighting the war against terrorism”. “At least 1,200 of our security personnel and more than 4,500 civilians have died in the war against terrorism (in Pakistan’s troubled northwest),” Mukhtar said

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive

If Pakistani army was being more aggresive and eliminating potential targets, US would not have to carry our drone attacks. Problem is that the Pakistani army and ISI have taleban sympathisers. They cannot be trusted with information and therefore US has to take action, on its own.

Posted by Jerry | Report as abusive

The Predators are flown by CIA, not US military. The very same CIA who are working from Pakistani bases and working with ISI. They need our coperation more then they need Predator over flights.

Its a joke we are even going throgh this whole play.

We managed to shoot down an Indian/Israeli UAV 20 mins after it crosses the border (at night!) yet for the past 6 montsh we could not shoot down predators flying over Pakistan daily?

Give me a break! Kiayni knows it, ACM knows it, PM knows it and Zadari knows it.

1) Predtors kill many guys Pak Army wants to get anyway
2) It actually saves us the effort
3) We dont want to start a shooting war with the US
4) Who knows what we are getting in exchange for these overflight rights (that will probably never be revealed)
5) If we did want them to stop we would have done it ages ago
6) If they were to stop, it would be a major symbolic victory for terrorists anyway
7) Possibility we may get sold Predators eventually if we make a hue and cry over these over flights and simply have them transfered to PAF with joint US/Pak controllers

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive

please dnt put India with Pakistan ne where its like comparing Apples with Oranges!

Pakistan gets down on its knees for Aid from US and China
sells it sovereignty to them.. i dnt know how Pak ppl live thr with that reality

Posted by pluralist | Report as abusive

I normally do not comment on other posts but the one from Umair struck me particularly… with this point specifically: “PAF was capable of serial production of about 40 to 45 JF-17 fighter planes for which it would require between $750-800 million.”

I think when a country has barely managed to get an IMF loan, and surviving on a thread, it should stop thinking of making Chinese planes and start investing into agriculture and local industry. That will make your country self-sufficient and also withdraw potential future terrorists from madrassas.

Saddam Hussein called the Gulf War, Mother of all Battles and was proud of his Republican Guards. When the time came, the war was over in a week. It should be a cakewalk for the US in Pakistan as it has friends in both Afghanistan and India.

Posted by Jerry | Report as abusive

Umair

—Dil ko behlane ke liya khayal acha hai Galib…

Posted by Anup | Report as abusive

I think Umair is Pro Employed by ISI as PR campaigner to save at least its face on blogs… dnt waste time arguing with him … get on with ur lives .. he does this for living

Posted by pluralist | Report as abusive

Myra, You asked if there is worse to come from Obama ??

I think it already came..Obama has cut the aid money to pakistan by 51 million $$ out of 156 million $$ which was earlier committed by him to be given to pak as its fee to fight militants.

Posted by Anitha | Report as abusive

PAF has already ordered the Spada 2000 Advanced Air Defence System with Aspide 2000 missile is an upgraded version of the Aspide surface-to-air missile which can intercept crossing and approaching targets to a range of 25km from Italy.
Jerry
The republican guards of Iraq are not to be compared with Pakistan armed forces, which are far superior in training. Also, from naval warfare, land and air Pakistani forces are armed with advance weapons systems. Add to that the nuclear warheads and ballistic missiles. Despite all this, the unity of the nation and professionalism of the armed forces is our asset. Dont expect Pakistan to be an easy game like Iraq.

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive

Pakistan is getting Valuable Foreign Exchange by exporting IT Services(Islamic Terrorism) US,EU,India ,Russia and China G8 and Nuclear Proliferation to Rouge countries., Thr is huge trade imbalance .. WTO is considering urgent Negotiations … which are the products of Madrasas state of art Education and Foresight of founding fathers of Pakistan.

http://weekly.ahram.org.eg/2005/757/op3. htm

“The partition of India has also yielded a most interesting and perplexing phenomenon. While Pakistan backed the extremist- fundamentalist Taliban movement in Afghanistan and was among the countries to feed Al-Qaeda with manpower, and while persons of Pakistani origin perpetrated the London bombings of 7 July, the Muslims of India (with 150 million Muslims, India has a larger Muslim population than any other country) went another direction entirely. They gave India its current president and several speakers of the Senate. Moreover, not only in the past did they give India many of its great national independence leaders, today they are supplying many of the intellectual and political pioneers in India’s project for the future”

Posted by pluralist | Report as abusive

Umair, after mumbai attacks India never said it would chose a military action on pakistan..from the very start India has stuck to diplomacy..so your statement is totally wrong..pakistani fools in the media have said that they are ready for any military action but that doesn’t change what India has said..so again stop barking.

Posted by Anitha | Report as abusive

Anup

Hai liye hathiyaar dushman taak mein baitha udhar
Aur hum taiyyaar hain seena liye apna idhar

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive

Anitha
No fools in the media said Pakistan is ready for war, it was Gen. Ashfaq Kayani COAS Pakistan Army who said Pakistan will respond “within minutes” to an Indian attack.
Indian Army chief Gen. Deepak Kapoor had to state later on that India will keep all its option open, only to match Kayani’s statement.

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive

Umair

—Peeth peeche vaar karke seena chauda karte hai,
Kya kahiye aise logo ko jinki fithrath khoti hai…

Posted by Anup | Report as abusive

but paki cannot stop begging the same Americans for food.

therein lies the problemo.

Anup

ishq kii daastaan hai pyaare
apanii apanii zubaan hai pyaare

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive

@Umair,

There you go again, ranting on about the Pak Military prowess. We just all laugh when you say that because the Pak Military in its ineptness can’t even fight the Taliban, Al-Qaeda, its own Madrassa, corruption and extremists. Even the Sri Lankan Army is grades above the Pak Military, as the Sri Lankan Army has almost defeated the LTTE.

Umair, you are watching too many Pak Military propaganda videos on youtube or something. Quit kidding yourself, the Pak Military is no match for a Global Grade Response from India. Pakistan will not be able to withstand the full brunt of the Indian military.

In a full out war with Pak, every U.S. supercomputer war simulation shows the complete flattening and annhilation of Pakistan to the point where it is not a recoverable society, merely a large black scratch on the earth. Even after using the nukes, India still survives. In this situation, India would take its land back. The worst thing for Pak is for it to use its nukes on India. You also forget that India just bought a bunch of AWACs planes and has many nuclear subs, which can clean the land on which Pakistan stands, twice over. So again, I tell you to quit bragging about the Pakistani arsenal, which is all useless, outdated, borrowed or bought with others money.

Just remember, Pakistan survives on free handouts and loans from the IMF.

Pakistan has as a nation, become beggar status, with its food bowl empty years ago. Yet Pak still continues to buy military upgrades with money it does not have, it is using the money from other countries.

In short, if Pakistan ever uses nukes, India will re-affirm the land stolen, once again.

Quit making the bloggers here laugh.

Posted by Global Watcher | Report as abusive

well the rundians aka indians need to stop there anger towards there own doing in mumbai stop killing kashmiris and it will stop mother india needs to sell her self less across the globe and sort her out of control children in kashmir

Posted by IndiaRundichootya | Report as abusive

Tariq Rahim,
The war declared by locals and foreigners on western border will keep Pak busy and the proxy war on India ( by Pak) will ease for now. Soany conventional war can wait.

You have begun a journey with a slogan of ‘a nation for muslims’ , are you proud of what have built in all these 60 years? Thorough introspection is the only option now, rhetoric wont help.

How Pakistan will sustain in case of WAR as it is on brink of Bankruptcy an No Oil imagine Naval Blockade of Karachi! Wake Up! face the reality dnt live in fools paradise ne ways US will neutralize the Nuclear arsenal

http://www.dawn.net/wps/wcm/connect/Dawn %20Content%20Library/dawn/news/business/ only-six-days-of-petrol-reserves-left-in -pakistan–il

Posted by pluralist | Report as abusive

these guys keep asking for evidence for mumbai attacks do they have ‘gotiyan’ to ask US, the evidence of 9/11, they keeping talking have capability to bring down the drones but if b52 starts flying over fatta then ‘gotiyan’ will get crushed.

Posted by arun | Report as abusive

[...] Reuters, Jan 26 2009: “U.S. missile strikes on Pakistan : more of the same under Obama or worse to come?“ [...]

Umair,

Your shyari is good. That’s one of the good thing of Pakistan. I accept that.

Posted by YMD | Report as abusive

Obama probably will leave the drones as is. Its garnered success (at least in the media) on killing alleged terrorists one of whom was said to be a foreigner behind the Marriott bombing.

As a PR exercise the Pak government maybe protesting, but there’s little they can do, and its probably under tacit approval of the army after reports of satisfied intelligence cooperation and trust was reported in the last few months and the US impressive reviews of Gen Kiyani.

There’s still the issue of who to trust in the ISI and Army ranks, but it seems the issue is being tackled. However all this would be short-term solutions unless promises on education (from primary to high education with critical thinking) on the ground and de-radicalization can then the country move ahead.

Biden has impressed me with his knowledge on Pakistan and support for the grassroots. However as long as we have jokers like Zardari running at the top, it’ll be a very painful democratic process and economic progress for at least another decade.

Posted by Saf | Report as abusive

Well On the issue of USA bombing Pakistan’s bred taliban areas I think pakis can sing this song – Meri bhais ko danda kyun maara….

Posted by Aaruni Upadhyay | Report as abusive

Umair,
Agree on all you PAF blah blah, but where is the fuel for your flights, they can only take off but can’t land down, our kids at border keep watching pilots ejecting and one by one will be shot down, INA will have a nice on the job practice.
lol

Posted by Blogger | Report as abusive

Well I am not sure how many of you have come across this, but have a see.

Iam sure the D*Gs will Ba*k again loudly….
http://www.dod.mil/pubs/foi/reading_room  /967.pdf

Posted by Blogger | Report as abusive

Umair

Yeh Itedare Ishq hai Rota hai kya

Aur Aage Aage Dekhiye Hota hai kya…

Posted by Anup | Report as abusive

Umair wrote:
“We managed to shoot down an Indian/Israeli UAV 20 mins after it crosses the border (at night!) yet for the past 6 montsh we could not shoot down predators flying over Pakistan daily?”

PAF shot down a small UAV with two F-16, Yes F-16 for a small drone and with two of them. I hope you dont launch a Gauri or Shaheen with a Nuclear warhead on an american drone.

Wait a minute do you think you still have nuclear warheads coz some people think americans snatched them from you back in 2001. You always cry “nukes” whenever somebody step on your tail. No country boast of nukes other than you, I suspect you still have them.

Posted by punjabiyaar | Report as abusive

I refuse to argue with people in denial. Hitler thought he could winning the war till the Soviets reached his bunkers. If living in a dream feels you happy, do so. I just hope more sense prevails in Pakistan.

Posted by Jerry | Report as abusive

@Umair:

pakistan ordered a couple of jets from china.

paki: so how do u fly this?
chinese: u just push the red button, this is left lever, this is right one.

paki:Muaf kijiye (I beg your pardon)
chinese: u just push the red button, this is left lever, this is right one.

paki:Muaf kijiye (I beg your pardon)
chinese: What the hell, you dont understand anything,look everything is in instructional manual under your seat.

paki: Oops its in English ?
chinese: Turn other way around Its in both English and Urdu, You idiots, good for nothing, Fehh pooh ping pong don konk shai sha feng choo………………………..

paki (After reading it): oh ok ! landing page is missing,How do you land it ?
chinese: ohhh……..dont worry…….Indians will take it down.

Posted by punjabiyaar | Report as abusive

@Pakistan,

Pakistan must stop living in denial. Its current state of disfunction is the product of its actions for the last 60 years. What ever has been done by all in Pakistan from its formation till today is not working.

It is time for Pakistan to abandon its ideals of an Islamic Statehood. This whole notion of Islamic Statehood has lead it down its path of destruction and will lead to its eventual failure. If you cannot live peacefully with each other as citizens, how can you live peacefully with your neighbours?

It is time for a peace movement in Pakistan, embracing peace, like Gandhi did and rejecting violence, hate, terrorism and corruption. It is time for an awakening movement in Pakistan, like the United States had in the 60′s.

Pakistan must wholeheartedly and honestly embrace the modern age and Western Ideals such as “human rights”, “Pluralism”, “rule of law”, democracy, capitalism, and above all, secularity.

Pakistan may have started off with noble intentions, but its reason for forming, will also lead to its reason for dismantling itself.

Posted by Global Watcher | Report as abusive

Punjabiyaar
pretty stupid joke just like yourself, one cannot laugh just got a feeling of pity on you.

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive

@ Blogger

Pakistan in the year 2015 will most likely be the largest Muslim country in the world, and by then Islam will have become the second largest religion in the US. There will be a sizeable Pakistani Diaspora in the US, making a strong contribution to the productivity of the US economy. First and second generation Pakistani-American entrepreneurs will establish and manage high-tech companies that employ hundreds of people. Consistent with past practice, Pakistani-American doctors and engineers will occupy leadership positions in their profession. They will diversify into other professions as well, such as journalism, law and economics. On the political front, Pakistani Americans are likely to be represented in many state legislatures; a few may be sitting in the US House of Representatives; and one or two may have contested a senatorial position. They are also likely to be represented in one or more senior positions in the US government.

Pakistan will have a sizeable inventory of nuclear warheads, upwards of 50 warheads. It will be capable of delivering them from air, land and sea based platforms. Fuel for the warheads will come from an expanded programme of nuclear power generation. This programme would be an outgrowth of the 300 MW Chinese-built Chashma nuclear power station that became operational in 2000. Pakistan is also likely to have attained self-sufficiency in a variety of conventional defence systems, and is likely to be a major arms exporter to states in the Gulf region, Southeast Asia and Africa. Likely weapon systems will include submarines (derivatives of the French Agosta class), main battle tanks (derivatives of the Al-Khalid class), and armoured personnel carriers (derivatives of the US M-113).

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive

@ Global watcher wrote:
“Pakistan must wholeheartedly and honestly embrace the modern age and Western Ideals such as “human rights”, “Pluralism”, “rule of law”, democracy, capitalism, and above all, secularity.”

Pakistan today is totally changed country. When did in the history of Pakistan a President(military) had to resign. The democratic movement and restoration of judges movement and civil society struggle compelled Gen. Pervez Musharraf to resign. As far as secularity is concerned, Pakistan is an Islamic republic so no argument on that. Where as capitalism itself is dying a slow death in US and elsewhere where economies are collapsing despite multi-billion $ bailout packages. Pakistan will be better off following an economic system based on Islam.

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive

I quote from Umair,
“The democratic movement and restoration of judges movement and civil society struggle compelled Gen. Pervez Musharraf to resign”

Why can’t the same democratic movement restore ‘SWAT’ in a go,they can do,can’t they? But it needs absolute courage,isn’t it?.

Umair also says”Pakistan will be better off following an economic system based on Islam.”

Does this economic style based on Islam also involve begging for money from the so called friendly states. I don’t know,I am just asking out of curiosity.

Posted by mitchell | Report as abusive

Pakistan in the year 2015 will most likely be the largest terrorist country in the world, and by then radical Islam will become the largest threat to civilization. There will be a sizeable Pakistanis in US but as their passports will be invalid they will be deported to their own dirts. First and second generation Pakistan-Taliban will take over the jihad and will slit each others throat. Doctors and engineers will try to get political stay in America, India, China and other countries but no one will entertain them. Their economy will demolish and currency will devaluate. A Bread will cost around 20 Million Pakistani rupees, add some haleem and it will be 30 million.

Pakistan which used to have around 50 nuclear warheads, will be left only with some non-working chinese AK 47 and home made pistols. All its attack and defense capability of air, land and sea based platforms will be destroyed by Americans. All countries including arabs will cut fuel supply and india will stop water flowing to pak through Indian rivers. Even China will cut of all diplomatic and military ties with Pakistan and Pakistan will be disintegrated in 4 parts. Pakistan occupied kashmir will be part of India. Then all the world can live in peace in prosperity

Posted by punjabiyaar | Report as abusive

Anup and Umair: I could not help laugh at the back and forth couplets between you 2. I liked this one in particular (from Anup)

—Peeth peeche vaar karke seena chauda karte hai,
Kya kahiye aise logo ko jinki fithrath khoti hai…

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive

This one From punjabiyaar to @Umair is real good one:

pakistan ordered a couple of jets from china.

paki: so how do u fly this?
chinese: u just push the red button, this is left lever, this is right one.

paki:Muaf kijiye (I beg your pardon)
chinese: u just push the red button, this is left lever, this is right one.

paki:Muaf kijiye (I beg your pardon)
chinese: What the hell, you dont understand anything,look everything is in instructional manual under your seat.

paki: Oops its in English ?
chinese: Turn other way around Its in both English and Urdu, You idiots, good for nothing, Fehh pooh ping pong don konk shai sha feng choo………………………..

paki (After reading it): oh ok ! landing page is missing,How do you land it ?
chinese: ohhh……..dont worry…….Indians will take it down.

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive

Umair said: “Pakistan in the year 2015 will most likely be the largest Muslim country in the world, and by then Islam will have become the second largest religion in the US.”

Someone needs to explain this # game. How does it matter? To me, quality of a person does matter. As long as your fellows are in plenty, it is alright. Producing more does not mean producing better. It is the country where you come from and the system there mattters, Indians of all religions have made name–all religions of course including Muslims. All these guys don’t stress upon religion as the reason for their success. Ask Freed Zakaria and Sulman Rushdie; they will not owe their success to to their religion- if they practice-but to their hardwork. More the better is a common logic in Islam. A guys from Lahore at my work said the same thing. Well then cockroaches might be superior to humans, since they are more in #. This # game is a trouble since the conversions are carried out by bribery and force. This is the root cause of many problems too (spread islam all over the world).

I can tell you the success will not be proportionate to your #. If you do not provide proper eduaction and awareness, this # is useless.

Even now, if you look abroad and compare 2 religions, you would not see far less successful Muslims (no offence). Also what matters is the broader perception of a community/religion.

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive

I meant:

Even now, if you look abroad and compare 2 religions, you would see far less successful Muslims (no offence). Also what matters is the broader perception of a community/religion.

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive

OK Guys
Indians cant stand a rebuttal, firstly there is global recession. It is wrong to state that Pakistan is begging money from other countries. Iceland’s economy collapsed recently, UK banking system barely avoided collapse, and despite all this Pakistan got an IMF loan to correct its balance of payment crisis. It is worth mentioning here in last five years Pakistan has seen a boom in banking, telecommunication, car financing sectors. Countries like Iran and Saudi Arabia have offered oil on deffered payment. Now when a country like Canada today passed its budget and it is in deficit till 2013, it is understandable for a country like Pakistan to ask for assistance from friendly countries.

@punjabiyaar
Well I am damn proud despite Pakistan being a global sponsor of terrorism is still a Major Non-NATO ally, a US Ally and better recall David Milliband’s statement in NEW DELHi under the nose of Indian leaders that they need to sort out Kashmir dispute if they want peace.

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive

@Punjabiyaar
If by your definition Pakistan is a rogue terrorist state, then the whole international community must be very stupid to bestow Pakistan with favors. Why MNNA status with NATO, why IMF cooperation, why not sanctions ?
I would say India is a sponsor of terrorism, what about the fruits of interfering in Sri Lanka and Tamils? Who killed Rajiv Gandhi? You guys need to look at the history of RAW to find out who are the terrorists. And before you accuse of any terrorists in Pakistan, dont forget the world today knows much about Hindu fundamentalists and terrorist organizations and rogue elements in your own country India.

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive

@Umair,

You should also be proud of the fact that Pakistan is Terrorist Central.

While you brag of Pakistan’s ability to destroy. You can claim nothing for Pakistan’s ability to create, nurture, give rise to new technology, women’s rights, non-muslim rights.

Pakistan did not even develop its own nukes, A.Q. Khan was a very NALAK student and photocopied most of the plans and stole them, selling them to everyone and their dog, who ever would buy them.

Do you even have the faintest idea that Pakistan would ceast to exist, if it used one nuke?

Has Pakistan contributed any new knowledge or development to mankind? I didn’t think so and it never will. But you still have your nukes and hate factories, I am sorry, you call them madrassas!

I have yet to meet one technically and professionally competant educated individual expatriate from Pakistan. Whether they be doctors or engineers, they are not up to par with Western and Indian counterparts. I found they often suffer from social adjustment disorders coming to western countries. I did not find this to be the case with Indians, especially the Punjabis, People from Kerala and Delhi.

So you have lots to be proud about, Mukhtar Mai, an international hero, the madrassas, terrorism, hate against its boogeyman neighbour and overall ineptness to get rid of a few foreign fighters.

Posted by Global Watcher | Report as abusive

Iceland’s economy and British banks collapsed because they were very tightly coupled with the US financial market.
Pakistan’s economy is not that tightly coupled. Your economy is crumbling not because of credit crisis but because of weak fundamentals.

What milliband said was stupid and insensitive. that’s why he was dropped by british govt and media like a hot potato.

Everyone wants a stable and responsible pakistan. Nobody wants terrorits making mayhem with Paki nuclear weapons. That is why World is employing carrot in form of aid and stick in the form of drones to bring pakistan to sense.

Your inovcation of LTTE issue shows you lack of knowledge/ brainwashing by paki media. LTTE did had some support from Tamil(not indian as a whole) population and politicians in its early days. That is why India sent its peace keeping force to sri lanka to help sri lanka curb that menace and show solidarity with her. That indian mission was a disaster and IPKF was pulled back. Rajiv Gandhi was killed by LTTE because of sending IPKF to sri lanka.

Hindu fundamentalism is a relatively recent phenomena and a kind of me-too with Muslim fundamentalism. The important thing is that Most of Indian populace do not support fundamentalism unlike Pakistan.

Posted by chirkut | Report as abusive

pakistan is happy making friends with US, but what they dont know is they had already made a death wish by doing that, to realise that see the history of US with pakistan, initially they started on good note with lot of aid to pakistan over decades, but wheel of fortune has changed for them now, they have started experiencing thunder storms by US now on western border which will lead to total tormoil in pakistan with new chapters begining such as BLA rising, fata & swat achieving their own independence, also giving rise to small autonomous states with US neutralising there nuclear arsenal. question will be , would these small states still live with peace, the answer is simple no, analogy with famous ‘kahavat – kutte ki doom’. So, finally india will have to take control of these small lawless states.

Posted by arun | Report as abusive

@Umair
“If by your definition Pakistan is a rogue terrorist state”

Here are your answers:

Q: then the whole international community must be very stupid to bestow Pakistan with favors ?
A: Its your geographical location for which you are getting favours from USA and international communities. Otherwise who wants to come in your dirts.

Q: Why MNNA status with NATO, why IMF cooperation, why not sanctions ?
A: Again its your geographical location, coz the only supply route go through you, BUT it will not work for you long enough once NATO and US finds another supply route.

You cant say India is something to do with terrorism in Sri Lanka because India sent peace troops for keeping peace because LTTE was wrong. Just like we send army against PAKISTAN in bangladesh coz Pakistan was wrong and split it. Sorry no hard feelings now, past is past.

Nobody points at RAW for any terrorism activity but everybody even your NATO allies think ISI is involved in terrorism and should be in control of interior ministry. USA said it clearly when you bombed indian embassies in Afghanistan.

There is no Hindu fundamentalism otherwise there would be no pakistan because if we were extremist we would have never let muslim invaders come into our country, establish empires and forcefully convert hindus to Islam. So that AMAR will be not be converted to UMAIR and VIKRAM will be not be converted to AKRAM.

Posted by punjabiyaar | Report as abusive

@Umair,
Well I am damn proud despite Pakistan being a global sponsor of terrorism is still a Major Non-NATO ally…

– You mean Nothing Against Terrorist Organization (NATO)?

Posted by Blogger | Report as abusive

… Khud apane chat pe kitne ched hai gin nahin sakte, chale hai gine duniyan ki cheden…

Posted by Blogger | Report as abusive

Chirkut wrote;
“Hindu fundamentalism is a relatively recent phenomena and a kind of me-too with Muslim fundamentalism. The important thing is that Most of Indian populace do not support fundamentalism unlike Pakistan.”
So who killed thousands of muslims during partition? who torched and set ablaze the trains carrying muslims into Pakistan, when they arrived in stations, all that was found were burned bodies and an occasional survivors. Who killed Gandhi ji? what about the killing of christains in Orrissa recently? who burnt alive the Australian missionaries years back in India? Who are the VHP-RSS-BJP Bajrang Dal, Col. Purohit, Malegaon blasts, and other rogue elements in Indian Army. Hindu fundamentalism and terrorism is a well established phenomenon in India, these hindu fascists have infiltrated the Indian military and civil government, holding the country hostage. Mumbai attacks were infact a coup attempt to paralyze the Congress led secular government and incite a war with Pakistan. And dont you ever think the world is closing its eyes to all this, India will be exposed more in future. Its secular identity will be replaced by the emerging face of hindu extremists.
However chirkut, I give you credit for accepting the phenomenon of hindu fundamentalist, just one correction it existed way back since India was born. Its real face is emerging and being noticed by the world now.

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive

Umair:
As I said previously There is no Hindu fundamentalism otherwise there would be no pakistan because if we were extremist we would have never let muslim invaders come into our country, establish empires and forcefully convert hindus to Islam. So that AMAR will be not be converted to UMAIR and VIKRAM will be not be converted to AKRAM.

Moreover There are more muslims in India than Pakistan, if there was any such extreme hindu elements there, muslims would not be able to survive in India. If riots in 1947 had anything to do with Hindu vs muslims, we could also send the trains full of remaining muslims of India finely chopped. But obviously we did not want that.

Open your eyes Umair, wash them, remove the layer of hatred, try to see and believe the truth. Either you are a fool or trying to pretend one. Pakistan as a state always look for shortcuts. You dont have a long term vision. When you created taliban it served your purpose temporarily. Now its biting you. You created LeT and ZeM it worked well for you but payback is not far.

Now you have sold a large chunk of your land to China for GWADAR port, chinese are no one’s friend, they stabbed India once and they will stab you sooner or later. Choose right people in elections and try to do something creative for Pakistan, instead of trying to defend Pakistan on reuters with no matter how much stupidity and lies it takes.

Posted by punjabiyaar | Report as abusive

@Umair
Partition events were a reaction to muslim league’s “Direct Action”. Read from some neutral sources what this “Direct Action” was. It was the sick idea of Jinnah to foment riots and force india and britain for a seperate and evil pakistan.

Rest of the things you covered are, as i said, recent phenomena. Col Purohit was tying to do SIMI(Student islamic movement of India) on SIMI. But then this is not pakistan where anyone can walk out clean after mudering innocent civilians and hence he is being convicted for the blasts. Where are you with the Mumbai attackers and there backers in and outside of Paki institution?

Thanks but no thanks for the credit. We know where our failings are and are working on them rather than denying them. Where are you with Terrorism emanating from Pakistan? Unfortunately still in denial mode. Even after acceptance by your govt that the mumbai attackers were pakistani you still think that it was done by Indians themselves. Wake up buddy before your Frankenstein monster make your country rest in peace(RIP) for ever

Posted by chirkut | Report as abusive

Interesting post…but no opinions..

Why are Indians so happy with these missile strikes? Did these missile strikes stop the Mumbai attacks?

Bangash Khan …DUCK… the drones are comin….!!! lol

Posted by Anup | Report as abusive

Bloggers:

while several Indian bloggers have strongly condemned the activities of Hindu Fundamentalist (I do too), I have yet to see any Pakistani blogger do the same for LeT, JuD, JeM and other such groups. Am I the only one to feel so? This is the core of the India-Pak animosity.

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive

What is this nonsense I hear about “sovreign nation” and “drones” in FATA??
Hon. President and Commander-In-Chief of the the most powerful Superpower in the Universe is a paying customer of Pakistan (some $20 billion US taxpayers monies, most of which is and was used for nefarious puposes and stolen by your leaders), and as such he or his surrogates, the CIA have every right to bend Pakistan a little and penetrate from behind into Pakistan’s “hot-bed”, FATA, as many times a day as he pleases, as agreed upon by your leaders.

Before Pakistanis start to complain about drones, get sore and uncomfortable, consider this , your own leadership declares every day “we Pakistanis are victims of terrorism” and “US must invest in Pakistan so the hopeless youth stop getting recuited as terrorists”.
After what the terrorists did to your other leader Benazir Bhutto, Pakistanis ought to be thankful to Obama for hitting the bad guys, but instead you are ungrateful? With “allies” like you who needs enemies right?

If you want America to give you unlimited Dollars in aid, then play by Obama’s rules. Its not that hard to understand. How else is America going to trust Pakistan with nukes and all the F22s and F35s you want, when you fail such basic test? Instead you give America a reason for distrust and are backing off from your ‘front-line ally” status already by not standing with USA and fighting shoulder to shoulder. How? By torching USA’s 250 loaded military trucks in Karachi and Peshawar enroute to Afghanistan based US troops. Do you think this is a good way to extract favors or money ot of a very kind friend and Superpower USA. You guys are really getting stupid!

Even Pakistan’s “all weather” and BFF China backed off helping Pakistan after what you guys did in Mumbai, evidence as seen and verfified by the EU and USA as Pakistani supported terror ativity.
Well I hope Almighty give Pakistani people the smarts to choose wisely to avoid disasters in your path, because your so called “leaders” will be enjoying wine with the Sheiks in Dubai when US or one of Pakistan’s neigbor does throw a “game-changer” at you to alter history and geography of Pakistan forever.
I pray to God that day never comes – but as you know some times prayers do get unanswered!

Posted by Nathuram Waghmare | Report as abusive

Pakistanis would have indeed been grateful, had the Americans hit the enemies of Pakistan i.e Baitullah Mehsud and other terrorists.

Posted by Muhammad Rizwan Malik | Report as abusive