Miliband’s gift: stiffening Indian resolve over Pakistan

January 28, 2009

British Foreign Secretary David Miliband may yet end up achieving the opposite of what he intended in India when he called for a resolution of the Kashmir dispute in the interests of regional security.

To some Indians, linking the attacks in Mumbai - which New Delhi says originated from Pakistan – to the issue of Kashmir is not just insensitive, it is also a wake-up call. The lesson they have drawn is this: for all the world’s sense of outrage over Mumbai, India will have to deal with Pakistan on its own, and not expect foreign powers to lean on its neighbour in the manner it wants.


Miliband’s visit was a “jarring reminder to India to stop off-shoring its Pakistan policy,” writes Indian security affairs analyst Brahma Chellaney in the Asian Age. He then goes on to call for a set of measures including a military option short of war to weaken Pakistan.

New Delhi has diplomatic options that it has not yet deployed, he argues. These include recalling the Indian High Commissioner to Islamabad or suspending peace talks, or disbanding a “farcical” joint anti-terrorism mechanism or halting state-assisted cultural and sporting links or invoking trade sanctions.

On the military front, he suggests offensive military deployments along the entire length of the border. This would be different from the 2002 all-out mobilisation for a war that nobody really believed would happen, following the parliament attack in Dec 2001. Such a strategy, Chellaney argues, would put keep Pakistan on tenterhooks as to which front would be chosen for a quick, sharp thrust. Pakistan would have to follow suit and that would put unbearable pressure on a state already in severe financial difficulties.

Plausible? Well, two months after the attacks, you would have to argue the appetite for such tough measures has reduced. . If you had to act, you were better off even in the eyes of your own people to have done it then, rather than now.

But this may well be a pointer to a stiffening mood in India as it heads into an election that could bring the Hindu nationalist Bharatiya Janata Party into power. And then all bets would be off as to what would be India’s policy towards Pakistan.

Over the weekend, the BJP’s prime ministerial candidate Lal Krishna Advani gathered a bunch of military chiefs, security analysts and party bosses, and the verdict from that meeting was India had been too soft on Pakistan.

“After Mumbai, any self-respecting government would have adopted a much more robust response which alone could compel Pakistan to not only bring to book those behind the incident but also to wind down the infrastructure of terror,” the BJP said in a statement. “Instead India adopted the mildest of response, not like an emerging global player.”

India, it says, has a range of “diplomatic, economic and other options” to force Pakistan to see reason and stop being a base for anti-India operations. Tough words, but then this is a party that said way back in 1998 it would weaponise India’s nuclear deterrent in its election manifesto and proceeded to do exactly that soon as it entered office.

Even some members of the Congress government are not above flexing muscles. Defence Minister A.K.Antony said New Delhi knew of the existence of more than 30 militant camps operating in Pakistan and that it was telling foreign nations these camps were not just a threat to India but to the world itself. Pakistan has said that it is already fighting militants on its own territory and that the accusations from India are unhelpful.

[Reuters photos of British Foreign Secretary David Miliband with Indian Foreign Minister Pranab Mukherjee and Indian policemen standing guard in Kashmir]

Comments

Rightly said, there is no self-respect in government. This was proved in the congress party not after the mumbai incident but the sameday when the party members agreed to enslave themselves to a Italian madam and proved again when the party was exposed buying MP’s to secure majority. Now this party is proving its incompetence and dirty unchangable mindset of diverting public attention from its failure by letting goons like MNS and shiv sena on a rampage with out taking action on them in maharastra, so that people in mumbai who were attacked could forget pakistani terrorists along with failure of center to act effectively against pakistan.

Posted by Anitha | Report as abusive
 

The new United States Secretary of State Ms.Hillary Clinton has said Israel has the right to defend itself.

She is saying this despite the outrageous contrast between Israel and India. Palestinians are attacking Israel becaue they are under occupation.

Punjabi terrorists from Pakistan came to Mumbai to slaughter unarmed civilians. Punabi terrorists are not under occupation by the Indian army but by the Punjabistan army.

Indians should note she or no one else in the US officialdom has made a declaration India has the right to defend itself.

Thus the United States becomes an indirect sponsor of terrorism perpetrated by Pakistan.

And ten you wonder why America’s foreign policy is full of failures.

That’s because they are not baed on honesty and good faith.

 

Yes, India should have acted soon after the attacks happened. But India has the Congress Party in power, which is run by anti-national, communist people, and is heavily infiltrated by Jihadi elements. What can be expected from such a party? Absolutely nothing, which is exactly what it has (not) done. India badly needs a Nationalist Hindu Party such as the BJP, who has proved in the past to be the only hope against islamic terror coming in from Pakistan. It is clear that Pakistan is unable and unwilling to control Anti-India terrorists operating on its soil. India will have to take measures and has every right to do so.

Posted by Rohini | Report as abusive
 

Well said. This time Indian politicians/leaders are persuaded by new western allies who indirectly support Pakistan for their South East Asia policy. No one has forgotten what happened in Mumbai and we will not forget it soon. Pakistan is showing again and again its tough face to India. Indians are waiting for the right time.

Posted by Murugan | Report as abusive
 

Panjabistan ??? lol
I like it…

Panjabi, Pathan , Sindi , Bluchi and Kashmiri are all Brothers.
Pakistan is our Family Name.

So for you foreigners (Indians/Hindus) we are Pakistani.

Disintegration of India will lead to global peace. India is an artificial country which is trying to achieve the mission impossible. You can never have Hindu, Muslim, Sikh, and Christian as one. Muslims love to eat beef meat but Hindu regard it as divine! Christian love pork but for Muslims its taboo! And so on. So what kind of nation is this where its citizens cant even have a meal together.

Long live Freedom

Posted by Khan | Report as abusive
 

As revealed in the US Senate hearings by experts, India after dozens of terrorist attacks still has not created, trained and equipped a National Counter-Terrorist Center similar to what is in the US to respond effectively to a terrorist attack anywhere in India.

This is the main reason why 10 heavily armed but poorly trained terrorists brought all of India to its knees for 67 hours, even while these murderers slept for 7 hours in the Hotel before resuming more killing.

Indian politicians and people have very low standards when it comes to demanding respect and services from their government. The so called “black cats” commandos are kept busy protecting the VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVips in Delhi
Mr. smartie pants Chidabram created an “FBI” to investigate the crimes, but still no word on a real national SWAT team of International calibre to protect the citizens – maybe the politicians don’t think its important!
As long as India chooses not to respond, pakistan will continue attacking and getting away with murder. The cost will be borne by the Indian public, not the fat-cat corrupt politicians. People in India should be outraged, protest and work for a better leadership then this.

 

No matter how we look at it, India-Pakistan core problem is Kashmir, and core problem of Kashmiri’s is independence. We just cannot ignore this reality. Its not worth to find support is outsiders statements. If our own eyes are closed to a issue, we have to open them up and find a resolve to have peace. After all we are playing dirty too, but then this is politics for increasing our influence.

Bush the bully’s, use of force in his apex of “War on terror” created more terror, has back fired. Now smaller guerrilla groups are engaging with large armies, and guerrila’s dont look for military victory, the look for political victory. We have to really see what 10 guys did to 10,000 Indian police, commando’s and army units. Then I guess there is a skeleton in the closet. How did they have so much fire power. Imagine what one guy can carry in weight at best 50 pounds, but the fight of 2 people in each hotel looked as if it was 200 people fighting from inside.

See what happened in Iraq, Saddam said this will be the ‘mother of all battles”. His tactics were simple, dont stand and fight to get killed. The entire army disappeared to fight for another day, and it has been 5 years that even when Bush announced “Mission accomplished” the darn thing keeps lighting up like Israeli phosphorous bombs.
So there is one and only one solution- Find peace. We know where the ‘wrong is”. lets make it right

 

The same Advani was the home minister when country’s parliament was attacked in 2001. If the NDA government had acted as Advani wants now the terror infrastructure would not have existed in Pakistan to carry out an attack on Mumbai. Why did he not do that then and blame the government now?
Going for war is not an option for India. Diplomatic offensive combined with economic blockade against Pakistan while upgrading our own internal security mechanisms and Intel will be the best option for India. Never forget that India will have to deal with the Maoist naxalites, Islamic terro outfits like SIMI,HuJi,Let and also saffron hardliners to tighten its internal security. Blame game is not an option even if that is the easiest for politicians.

Posted by Gupta | Report as abusive
 

Rohini, I disagree with your statement that “It is clear that Pakistan is unable and unwilling to control Anti-India terrorists operating on its soil.”:-)

Pakistan is in complete control of Anti-India terrorists.

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive
 

To tariq j qureshi et al and those really concerned about the Kashmir. Here are the points if you can address that for peaceful India, including Kashmir.
1. What is Kashmir? Is it the Kashmir of 1947?
Kashmiris does not mean only Muslims. Convenient Amnesia?–Kashmir is the homeland of Kashmiri Pundits (KP) too. Recall genocide/exodus of Kashmiri Pundits. Kashmiri Hindus were asked to choose between Convert, Flee or Perish. “agar Kashmir me rahna hei, to allah ho akbar kahna hei” slogan was sung at that time. More than 500,000 fleed and many killed. Demographics changed-so no plebiscite.
2. Why did Kashmiri Pundits leave? ISI-backed terrorists commit atrocities (murder/house burning/rape-forced conversion to Islam) on KPs. Clearly, Kashmiri Muslims did not support their fellow minority Hindu brother/sisters. Such was not the case during Punjab terrorism when Sikhs/Hindus supported each other and are now deservedly co-existing together.
4. Why Indian Army and other paramilitary forces now? Ask ISI & terrorists.
5. Does India care about Kashmir? Oh Yes. Unlike bogus Azad Kashmir and Pak sucking POK resources like leaches, Indian Kashmiris have separate constitution, a separate flag, full rights granted under the Indian constitution to freedom of speech, religion, press, assembly, the relief from taxes, and the sole right to own property in their state and lot more development. Who runs POK –Pak Punjabi PM) and CM of J&K is Kashmiri. So where is the oppression—in POK. Kashmiris are more rights than anyone else in India.
6. Do Kashmiris want peace? Elections (not bogus or forced) with good turnout show that they do. Let the political system evolve.
7. Is old UN resolution relevant now? It stinks. No same Kashmir—so what UN resolution?
8. Is independent Kashmir viable? No, it does not have any signs of a viable nation that can progress.
9. Are LeT type gps real Jihadis? No they are professional terrorists (mostly Pakistanis). SLOGAN “ONE PERSON’S TERRORIST IS ANOTHER’S FREEDOM FIGHTER” IS OUTDATED AND MUCH EXPLOITED. Quit it. Who are the real freedom fighters?—-Gandhi, Patel, Azad, Bhagat Singh and the list goes on…… who targeted the enemy not the innocents. The so-called Jihadis are terrorists who don’t care if they kill innocents, rather they specially target innocents. Calling them freedom fighters is insult to the principles of democracy and freedom. A nation cannot be built on these foundations. It will be a still birth.
10. Would “Independent Kashmir” stop this violence? No—because terrorists have a declared agenda (establish Islam rule over India) much larger than a free Kashmir. Who cam give guarantee of peace—no one—so what’s the point.

An independent Kashmir, without all its true inhabitants (Muslims&Pundits and others) at gun point by professional killers and no guarantee of drop in violence and at the cost of security risk to India—NO way.
Only possible UN resolution is to have a Kashmir of India and Kashmir of Pakistan with special status but under the control of India and Pakistan.

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive
 

Khan:
You have lot of work to do. So I will just talk to you in simple way since you are beginner.

Consider that India and Pakistan are playing a game-
a board game where you have to build pieces (constructive appraoch) as well as stop your opponent to build (destructive apprach) in order to win. Pakistan has focussed only on the destructuve approach. It has focussed on stopping India from building its pieces without focusing at all on building her own. That negative energy is costing Pakistan immensely. This destructive, hate thy Neighbour-for-no-reason, is in the very core of your message. India is using constructive approach and causes destruction only when it is necessary. That is the reason for India’s success despite many weaknesses. INSHA ALLAH India is ahead of Pakistan. Pakistan has to restart. Wish you good luck!

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive
 

@ Tariq, Khan,

Khan, you said “Disintegration of India will lead to global peace.”

The exact opposite is true, Pakistan is widely viewed by the rest of the world as a terrorist country. 911 and Mumbai was grown in Pakistan, as well as Khalid Shaikh Mohammed(911). Pakistan, what it has been doing upto today has not been working, that is why it is at its current state of affairs. India has been offereing brain power to the world for the last 50 years, while Pakistan, terrorism and corruption.

You also said “India is an artificial country which is trying to achieve the mission impossible.”

In fact Pakistan, the nation of it is only 60 years old, while India has existed for 6000 plus years and India has achieved everything, nothing is impossible, Hindues, Muslims, Sikhs and the rest, 99.99% of them live in peace and will continue to do so, we are a secular, democratic and inclusive plural society. Hindus are not considered equal human beings under the Islamic Constitution under Pakistan, so get your facts right! I believe dogs would be treated better in Pakistan. A certain Hindu Judge in Pakistan found it absurd that he can be a judge, but cannot bear witness against another muslim?!?! …How backwards!

Pakistan is retrograde, in that its people embrace division, hate, blame, jealousy, supremacy over others and worst of all, a pathological destruction and hatred of India. This is taught to your children in your schools, the world is aware of all your activities in Pak, as the internet reveals everything.

You can eat anything you want, Pork, Beef, Chicken, Goat, Lamb, it is not my job to impose my belief system on you. By the way, you and I can eat beef together, in fact anything you want, I am a Hindu and eat everything.

Oh and by the way, Pakistan and its citizens must quit its negative thoughts. Negative thoughts create negative outcomes. Quit blaming others.

Pakistan would not last a day with out its begging bowl out for free food, money and weapons. Quit kidding yourself, Pakistan is being overrun by the Taliban and foreigners from Saudi and other Muslim countries. They have taken over and Pakistan is a failed myth, just a blink in History.

Enjoy your Peshawari Kebabs, before the Jihadis shut that restaurant as well.

Posted by Global Watcher | Report as abusive
 

raj: the punjabistan guerillas would argue that their people on the indian side of the border are under occupation by the indian government just as palestinians argue that they are under foreing occupation. frankly, i believe neither punjabistan nor palestine, and am fed-up with rabid ideologues who view innocent civilians as expendable. which ever nations may have owned which ever parcels of land at whatever time, posession is nine tenths of the law, and one should consider the costs prior to engaging in ruthless and terroristic armed campaigns. in fine, the parallels between israel and india are very clear, and each state – which can claim posession hence law – have the right to defend themselves as they see fit.

Posted by JD | Report as abusive
 

raj: the punjabistan guerillas would argue that their people on the indian side of the border are under occupation by the indian government just as palestinians argue that they are under foreing occupation. frankly, i believe neither punjabistan nor palestine, and am fed-up with armed, rabid ideology-driven guerillas who view innocent civilians as expendable. which ever nations may have owned which ever parcels of land at whatever time, posession is nine tenths of the law, and one should consider the costs prior to engaging in ruthless and terroristic armed campaigns. in fine, the parallels between israel and india are very clear, and each state – which can claim posession hence law – have the right to defend themselves as they see fit.

Posted by JD | Report as abusive
 

Khan

We earn our meals & relish it, not like you Pakis, not to sweat for your daily bread & either beg (from Americans) or try to snatch it (from Afghanistan / India )so this brotherliness is beyond your mental grasp, as cunningly displayed by you in gobbling everyone in Punjabistan…lol

Posted by Anup | Report as abusive
 

To all pakistanis, Mind your own business, control Swat & Waziristan. Kashmir is out of your jurisdiction. As far as Indian leadership is concerned, it is as soft as Talc on islamic terrorism. This muslim vote greedy govt is most inept to defend us. It is passing time & waiting eagerly in hope of ‘Anger to die down’.
This Indian govt has even tried to extract political benefit from the martyrdom of securitymen. Its politically motivated move to award ‘Ashok Chakra’ to karkare, kamate & Salaskar is an insult(Highest peacetime gallantry award for falling victims to terrorist bullets!) to all those soldiers who bravely fight & die & never ever get such recognitions.
There bound to be more terrotist attacks on India from the neighbouring Terroristan. Indians are themselves to blame for as there inaction is the terrorists’ motivation.

Posted by Milind | Report as abusive
 

It was Milibands open support to terrorists and its sponsorers by talking the K-word in same line with Mumbai attacks, if you are thinking this was bad, he did the worst thing by justifying it, as according to him that made tensions between India and Pak cool off and also took the pressure off pakistan from India’s diplomatic affenssive..
Now why in the world would any sane person will want to reduce pressure on pak to act on terrorist camps ?? This simply means he is not only a supporter of pakistan but a terrorist sympathiser, remember he also called america’s war on terror is wrong or misunderstood or whatever..
On the other hand when i think why he choose to put his screwed-up idea in his article for a daily news paper, he deliberatly tried to show Indian stand as a wrong one in the eyes of Indian public, trying to divide people by commenting opposite to what Indian diplomats think.

Posted by Anitha | Report as abusive
 

The Indians sure sound hurt and wounded by Mr Miliband’s visit, even though he spoke the truth. India had adopted a strategy of using the West to gain concessions out of Pakistan, and that strategy proved a flop.

The Indian strategy of bullying Pakistan proved a flop as well in 2002. Wonder what strategy Indians will come up with next.

 
 

Thanks for the link Anup, this fella honestly only deserve the F-word. I wonder after such non-sense he created, how is still allowed to be in his position ??
And people think Indians simply do not demand enough from the politicians..we should be proud we took so many wickets of politicians after Mumbai attack.

Posted by Anitha | Report as abusive
 

Salam/namaste/hi,

it’s simple a facsimile of 9/11 but this one as made by indians who have absolutely failed in making this scene. can anyone tell me plzzzzz why that pakistani and muslim and LeT terrorist was wearing that RED/ORANGE wrist BAND (called RAKHI which’s a wrist band given by a sister to a brother for protection in hindu religion) ????
plzzzzz answer this!!

and why the top 3 security officials (including Col. Kurkure)were killed at the beginning of that incident i guess who were involved in solving a case of Col. Prohat singh who was behind in samjhota express blasts and terror… (their killing took place in a silent street a bit far from the hotels and that place)

let’s see how long india, hindus, and jews will play these kinda games with human blood!!!

Can anyone tell me plzzz why is islam still the most fastest spreading religion in the World????

tell me any star or famous non-Hindu who embraced Hindu religion ??????

Com’on start scratching your head and searching google it wont help!!!

Forgive me if there was any harsh/rude word, Hoping for some polite and sensible answers!!!

Chita nai kijiye ga! sab shaant hy!
Love Peace and Love Humanity Please!

Posted by Sufian | Report as abusive
 

Anup
This “http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstop i cs/politics/2667840/David-Miliband-subje cted-to-F-word-tirade-from-Russian-forei gn-minister.html” Miliband-Lavrov thing is Masterpiece.

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive
 

Thanks for deleting the facts but please dont play with humanity!!

truth can never be hidden!

Love Peace& Love Humanity Please!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by Sufian | Report as abusive
 

Why do people focus so much on inter-religion riots in India? Do riots not happen between two muslim communities around the world? Just because two sects of muslims are killing each other in Iraq its ok, but the moment the same thing happens in-between hinds and muslims, India is a bad country and needs to be merged with pakistan!!!!!!

Guys wake up, people fight everywhere. India is no different. In India money talks, not religion, just like any other country. I am sure pakistan is in a much worse state. So stop crapping about how bad India is and concentrate on developing your own country.

Posted by Shraddha | Report as abusive
 

Sufian,

The band u are referring to us also worn by indian fishermen, the terrorists were trying to pass themselves as fishermen and hence they wore the threads.

The three brave ATS officers were killed because they were men who lead by example and were always in the forefront of action, they were not like brave policemen in SWAT who give up without a Fight. Stop using indian martyrs to justify your acts of terrorism.

There are no famous hindu converts because you cant convert to hinduism, hindus are only born as hindus.

Almost always everytime someone converts in India its because to biased indian laws which allow muslims to have multiple wives (Its a insult to islam if you think about it).

Islam maybe the fastest growing religions, but almost all converts are rebels without a cause who are converting as a statement (Mohamad ali, Tyson) against state, system or society. Maxium Islamic conversions happen in US prisons.

Your fear of hindus, christian, jews or any other race is ridiculous. All these religions have matured since long, its only Islam which talks of union of faith and politics while the world is talking about separation.

My advise to radicals like you is stop getting in the way of the world, our patience is running thin.

Posted by indian1127 | Report as abusive
 

Safian:
Common sense tells not to investigate a crime which you committed.—isn’t it? If you understand this you will drop all those silly arguments of yours. BTW hoW does Kasab fits in the theory (Pak confessed that he is a Pak national).

If making conspiracy theories is your bread and butter, I’ll give you 2 cases where U can try these theories. I wont address that—I see already addressed here.

These are 2 cases never investigated—something fishy some where.
1. Plane crash that killed dear President Zia ul-Haq and 34 total passengers. This despite the fact that plane contained including US Ambassador to Pakistan, Arnold Raphel and high ranked US Diplomats.
2. Benazir Bhutto assassination never investigated. This despite the fact that her husband is President now.

Lots of conspiracy theories are floating around for these 2 cases and you can add yours there.

Safian said: Can anyone tell me plzzz why is islam still the most fastest spreading religion in the World????
Pl, provide your insight.

Rest all is covered extensively by many bloggers if you stop asking and start reading FAQ.

Now Safian, what has not been asked is:
Is LeT a terrorist organization? What does it do? Its motive and your perspective on this.

Allah Hafiz

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive
 

Thanks for responding my comments,

with due respect please refer ro Dr. Zakir Naik’s Lectures and his view of islam you ppl might get closer to islam that how peaceful and loving this religion is, i’m not here to hurt any other believer i came to clear the picture of islam infront of you ppl, it has so much more in it that even we the only muslim name holders are spot of dirt on this beautiful religion, u kno why coz it’s never said in islam to force or impose this religion to the ppl and that’s why i confirm most of the LeT and other jammaats are doing which surely dont deserve to live on this planet lemme tell you more abt them Let consists of those who dont have even enuf money to eat or to stay they are being sponsored by some non-muslims in order to spoil the image of islam that’s why even the fake taliban are forcing sharia in SWAT and northern areas and u ppl know how sensitive and emotional our pathan and khan brothers who dont even look this with sense and appreciating the taliban on forcing the wrong rules.

Pakistan and India have no difference from each other but India have got more strict policies against corruption that’s why senior officials resigns quickly but here in Pakistan these are the F**king looters who are governing this land with a plan to warm their pockets :’(

On the other hand islam still the fastest growing religion have u ever think on this the first 3 largest gathering for holy cause all are of islam 1st in HAJJ then in Raiwind ( the true islam spreader unlike LeT or other like Qazi :@ ) and the 3rd in i guess in bangladesh the same tableeghi jamat or in india same of tableeghi jamat,

If you wanna know more about islam i welcome you brothers it’s not what media says abt or what ppl have in their minds!
i maself hate extremists like LET, JUD, BJP, Shiv Sena, etc. etc.

4give me if there was any harsh word coz i dont wanna hurt anyone’s feelings or to make em angry!

you ppl can spit on my face but plzzz stop saying all abt islam! we deserve your abuses not Islam! plzzzzz handle this religion with care!!!

Posted by Sufian | Report as abusive
 

and that red band thing, thanks for the info bro!
i would like you to tighten security coz those teenagers have made a mess inside jst becoz of your sleeping forces, we also keep sleeping i condemn this act of violence but my greatest sympathies are with those main 3 security official who have raised the voice for muslims india and that for they have been paid during those attacks, I wish to be gone from this world like Col. Prohat who was not only brave but also a humanity lover for which he have been solving his case so dedicatedly and with honesty that he have been killed, and i kno aal the good ppl in this world are being killed like this i wish ppl can listen to the sound of peace and harmony for which so many best ppls have given their lives and nail their names in the history and in the hearts of ppl!
LeT and BJP are same remove both outta this planet!!!

Posted by Sufian | Report as abusive
 

To all the Alis, Umairs and other pakistanis:

You have some valid points:
1. Even after your own media having proved that ajamal was from Pak, even after your own NSA and Information minister confirming that Ajmal was from Pak, you are still saying that he was a HIndu because he wore a red band. WoW this is real patriotism.

2. Your PMs and Presidents’ go all over the world convincing the world that Pak is not a failed state. Although the word Failed state would not have even existed but for Pakistan, you go on claiming India is failed state that is a real Patriot.

3. Your PM proudly proclaims that he has asked his Chinese masters to talk to India, on Pak’s behalf. A sovereign nation indeed.

4. Your army Chief has to issue statements like “Our Army has the “will” to fight militant”. Show me another country whose army chief has to issue public statements “Confirming it’s WILLINGNESS to fights the enemy.

5. You think that if a war were to break out Pakistan will demolish India as it did in 1948, 1965, 1971 and in Kargil. Please go and check whether you have enough money to buy fuel for even driving your forces to the Indian border, unless some other country agrees to give you alms.
But the problem is other countries give you alms for fighting their battles not yours.

6 You think India is not a natural country because HIndus, MUslims and Christians can’t live together. And this after losing more than 50 percent of your country in 1971 although those living there were neither hindus not christians. Nearly half of what remained is controlled by those who do not owe their allegiance to Pak Constitution and run their own courts and they are also neither Christians nor HIndus. And you want Kashmir also. Why because the majority there is neither christians nor hindus. Wow

7. And you want Kashmir, actually let me correct this, you mean Kashmiri Muslims, to join you, (I know nowadays you have also started saying that Kashmiris should be allowed to choose independence also if that is what they want and it is partly driven from the realization that it is “impossible for sane persons to actually OPT for Pakistan”. UN resolutions meant nothing when they were passed and mean nothing even today. Why ? the resolution was passed under those parts of UN charter which are not binding. Second part of the area which was to be included in the plebiscite was sold by you to China now go and ask China to allow a plebiscite there also. Next withdrawal of Pak forces was one of the preconditions for holding the plebiscite. Next Independence was not included amongst the options allowed under the UN resolution try and tell that to Kashmiri Muslims. The changes in demographic composition is another problem. Keeping all these aside for a moment hypothetically speaking, if India were to agree on a plebiscite and Kashmiri Muslims actually OPT for Pakistan then they would have really deserved it. But problem is that Voting is not allowed for persons of Unsound Mind if so declared by a competent court. It is very easy for any court of law to accept that a person living in India but wanting to live in Pakistan, given condition of Pak, is of unsound mind . There you go.

I am forcing myself to stop here. As such Pak has ceased to exist in our scheme of things and our ambitions are bigger and nobler. The only reason I and some other Indians have even bothered to respond here is because you keep on sending these terrorists as reminders of your existence.

I pray to God to help you overcome your past and present.

TO Kashmiri Muslims: My intent was not to mean all the Kashmiri Muslism but only those who want to actually be Pakistani citizens. I know it is not all the Kashmiri MUslims. But I had to use the word for the clarity of Pakis .
Saurabh

Posted by Saurabh | Report as abusive
 

Miliband is a bright young chap who probably made the biggest gaffe in his carreer by linking the two issues… On another level, these issues are creation of the British Raj, don’t expect them to help you solve it!

Posted by Chandan | Report as abusive
 

check these out!

Hope it’ll make you ppl a bit laugh abt the film directed by indian govt. it wud be far much better if they allow bollywood to direct it

http://pakobserver.net/200901/30/Article s01.asp

here are much more abt the reply of those delayed evidences which were purley fabricated and that’s why took so muuch time of abt 45 days:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/78 27783.stm

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/art icle/ALeqM5jrJI_WFCuJUFW-4AWpliZaj1eBpQ

i hope our govt. is waking up a lil’ late and i wish and pray that they dont sleep like the indian naval forces!

Takecare!
Rab Rakha!

Posted by Sufian | Report as abusive
 

What exactly can India do over Pakistan? It cant attacks us,so I guess we can expect more Indian terrorists coming into our country & killing our people.

Indian state terrorism is alive & rampant….its active in FATA,Balochistan & Karachi. High time it was recognized & dealt with

Posted by Qasim | Report as abusive
 

so many options, so many leaps and bounds, but not one friend in the world who would shout to Pakistan that Kashmir is Indian internal matter in real terms since there are not just India as parties to the issue. So crying foul on Miliband or the Obama administration is just brawling. When in eternity will India be able to widen its perceptions beyond narrow-minded conflict?

Posted by riversand | Report as abusive
 

Posted by Chandan: “Miliband is a bright young chap who probably made the biggest gaffe in his carreer by linking the two issues… On another level, these issues are creation of the British Raj, don’t expect them to help you solve it!”

Chandan
Many feel otherwise. Click the link below (posted by Anup)
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopi cs/politics/2667840/David-Miliband-subje cted-to-F-word-tirade-from-Russian-forei gn-minister.html

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive
 

Sufian:
On your post with links from Pak/BBC/Google sites.

You already got earlier messages from bloggers.
I ask you a counterquestion:
“why did Pakistan took more than 2 eeks to confess that Kasab is a Pakistan national”
Isn’t it then 45 days a really fast time to get the evidence together.

wake up man and face the world. 61 yrs of history of Pakistan state has proved beyond doubt that it is a dangerous place to live in and is harmful to many. I feel you are a religious guy but do not justify Pak actions in the name of Islam.

God helps those who helptheselves.
“Rab” is not going to do your “rakhi” if you are blissfully ignorant.

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive
 

Here is an article I have copied & pasted:

Mohammed Hanif, the brilliant author of the engrossing book “The Case of Exploding Mangoes” (I have been planning to write about it ever since I first read it many months ago; and I will) – known to many for his stint at Herald before he joined BBC’s Urdu Service – has just written a most cogent and readable op-ed in The Times of India which is wroth reading; whether you agree with it or not. It is a good argument as well as a good read. And I say that even thought there are more than one points here that I might quibble with. But before we quibble, lets give Mohammed Hanif the floor – and a full and proper hearing. Here is the op-ed he wrote in The Times of India, in full:

Ten Myths About Pakistan

By Mohammed Hanif

Living in Pakistan and reading about it in the Indian press can sometimes be quite a disorienting experience: one wonders what place on earth they’re talking about? I wouldn’t be surprised if an Indian reader going through Pakistani papers has asked the same question in recent days. Here are some common assumptions about Pakistan and its citizens that I have come across in the Indian media.

1. Pakistan controls the jihadis: Or Pakistan’s government controls the jihadis. Or Pakistan Army controls the jihadis. Or ISI controls the jihadis. Or some rogue elements from the ISI control the Jihadis. Nobody knows the whole truth but increasingly it’s the tail that wags the dog. We must remember that the ISI-Jihadi alliance was a marriage of convenience, which has broken down irrevocably. Pakistan army has lost more soldiers at the hands of these jihadis than it ever did fighting India.

2. Musharraf was in control, Zardari is not: Let’s not forget that General Musharraf seized power after he was fired from his job as the army chief by an elected prime minister. Musharraf first appeased jihadis, then bombed them, and then appeased them again. The country he left behind has become a very dangerous place, above all for its own citizens. There is a latent hankering in sections of the Indian middle class for a strongman. Give Manmohan Singh a military uniform, put all the armed forces under his direct command, make his word the law of the land, and he too will go around thumping his chest saying that it’s his destiny to save India from Indians. Zardari will never have the kind of control that Musharraf had. But Pakistanis do not want another Musharraf.

3. Pakistan, which Pakistan? For a small country, Pakistan is very diverse, not only ethnically but politically as well. General Musharraf’s government bombed Pashtuns in the north for being Islamists and close to the Taliban and at the same time it bombed Balochs in the South for NOT being Islamists and for subscribing to some kind of retro-socialist, anti Taliban ethos. You have probably heard the joke about other countries having armies but Pakistan’s army having a country. Nobody in Pakistan finds it funny.

4. Pakistan and its loose nukes: Pakistan’s nuclear programme is under a sophisticated command and control system, no more under threat than India or Israel’s nuclear assets are threatened by Hindu or Jewish extremists. For a long time Pakistan’s security establishment’s other strategic asset was jihadi organisations, which in the last couple of years have become its biggest liability.

5. Pakistan is a failed state: If it is, then Pakistanis have not noticed. Or they have lived in it for such a long time that they have become used to its dysfunctional aspects. Trains are late but they turn up, there are more VJs, DJs, theatre festivals, melas, and fashion models than a failed state can accommodate. To borrow a phrase from President Zardari, there are lots of non-state actors like Abdul Sattar Edhi who provide emergency health services, orphanages and shelters for sick animals.

6. It is a deeply religious country: Every half-decent election in this country has proved otherwise. Religious parties have never won more than a fraction of popular vote. Last year Pakistan witnessed the largest civil rights movements in the history of this region. It was spontaneous, secular and entirely peaceful. But since people weren’t raising anti-India or anti-America slogans, nobody outside Pakistan took much notice.

7. All Pakistanis hate India: Three out of four provinces in Pakistan – Sindh, Baluchistan, NWFP – have never had any popular anti-India sentiment ever. Punjabis who did impose India as enemy-in-chief on Pakistan are now more interested in selling potatoes to India than destroying it. There is a new breed of al-Qaida inspired jihadis who hate a woman walking on the streets of Karachi as much as they hate a woman driving a car on the streets of Delhi. In fact there is not much that they do not hate: they hate America, Denmark, China CDs, barbers, DVDs , television, even football. Imran Khan recently said that these jihadis will never attack a cricket match but nobody takes him seriously.

8. Training camps: There are militant sanctuaries in the tribal areas of Pakistan but definitely not in Muzaffarabad or Muridke, two favourite targets for Indian journalists, probably because those are the cities they have ever been allowed to visit. After all how much training do you need if you are going to shoot at random civilians or blow yourself up in a crowded bazaar? So if anyone thinks a few missiles targeted at Muzaffarabad will teach anyone a lesson, they should switch off their TV and try to locate it on the map.

9. RAW would never do what ISI does: Both the agencies have had a brilliant record of creating mayhem in the neighbouring countries. Both have a dismal record when it comes to protecting their own people. There is a simple reason that ISI is a bigger, more notorious brand name: It was CIA’s franchise during the jihad against the Soviets. And now it’s busy doing jihad against those very jihadis.

10. Pakistan is poor, India is rich: Pakistanis visiting India till the mid-eighties came back very smug. They told us about India’s slums, and that there was nothing to buy except handicrafts and saris. Then Pakistanis could say with justifiable pride that nobody slept hungry in their country. But now, not only do people sleep hungry in both the countries, they also commit suicide because they see nothing but a lifetime of hunger ahead. A debt-ridden farmer contemplating suicide in Maharashtra and a mother who abandons her children in Karachi because she can’t feed them: this is what we have achieved in our mutual desire to teach each other a lesson.

So, quibble if you will. But do tell us what you think about the argument that Hanif is making.

Posted by Qasim | Report as abusive
 

International community does not understand the gravity of the situation. They have their own agenda.

Indian people have to decide if they want to live in fear or do something about it. Are they willing to die once or be terrorised and die everyday

Lets prepare for war, prepare nucleur safe bunkers (paki cowards are blackmailing the world ) and go for final asualt.

If Pak start nucleur war, ensure you fire all nucleur weapons at annhilate them.

Posted by Sameer | Report as abusive
 

Sameer,
You’re endorsing a nuclear Holocaust, and that is in no sane person’s interest.

Qasim, you’ve quoted a good article. Here’s my thoughts.

1) The word ‘Munafiq’ (hypocrite) comes to mind. Our head government and army and finally ISI are now with the policy of eradicating terrorists. Many ex military and ex ISI officials as well as currently employed ISI officials have admitted that there are some in their ranks or ex ranks who have had autonomous power and are still supporting Jihadis, and this was confirmed with ex-Afghan fighters testimony post-9/11. We have lost our Soldiers and security forces due to traitors providing training and info. This explained the Lal Masjid resistance. The myth is partial to false.

2) Neither Musharraf nor Zardari are totally in control. However Musharraf was sacked over Indian airspace and initially refused to land on Pakistani soil. Sharif is no innocent. The myth is false.

3) Pakistan is diverse, however the ethnic representation is skewed and the army seriously undermined our civilian institutions. The myth is partial.

4) I agree. Pakistan’s nukes are safe. However the concerns of the world is not unfounded as no one thought they live the day to see Swat conquered by extremists. The myth is false.

5) Pakistan is still a failed state. We’re chugging thanks to the testament of our will. However unless we change our attitudes and practices, it’ll just be a monotonous task of living day to day. The myth is true.

6) No, we are religious (or superstitious,depending on how u see it). Remember, the MMA had gained seats over the secular parties during Musharraf’s reign, so they did at one time have more than a fraction of the popular vote. Everyday there’s trends of increasing religious affiliation, of different religious groups including their representations on our liberal television channels. Many youngsters who advocate for Sharia Law believe Jinnah wanted it which was not the case. Our last elections were covered well and it had more to do with the judiciary against Musharraf to Benazir’s sympathy votes. The myth is true.

7) Indian hate was re-ignited after the Mumbai killings due to the disrespectful manner the Indian media sensational coverage and the Indian governments stern words (as well as Pakistani hate). However, I agree, its bogged down, but some are still deluded and paranoid, especially in our forces, that India is still the threat. Civilians have stopped caring, the same case with India (except for what happened in Mumbai). The myth is false.

8) There are training camps, and this should suffice as a threat to us and the world. LeT men and other groups were accused of hanging around on our Kashmir side, and Sheikh Rashid has been always questioned about his property close by being used as a hub, to which he denies. The myth is PROBABLY true.

9) ISI and RAW have both played games, correct. However, ISI have been more notorious and also played with our politics and had become radicalized as we had seen with Lal Masjid. In these 2 areas RAW have not done or become. So I would say RAW doesn’t do what ISI does. They’re different. The myth is partial to true.

10) Pakistan is poor. India may not be filthy rich, but they certainly are RICHER. So the myth here is partially true.

Thanks.

Posted by Saf | Report as abusive
 

Rajeev:

suppose if i agree with all of your points u r god damn right! alright!

i dont wanna be slaughtered in india being a muslim and i dont wanna live a coward life under your so called extremist even more than LeT the BJP and shiv sena and other holy superstars u kno 61 years history of pakistan but unfortunately u dont kno the history of hindus not hidustan em talkin abt hinduism and u even u dont the original name of this religion which u call it hinduism coz its a geographical meaning!

1st read abt your religion than u can have ur say abt islam and pakistan, coz pakistan is still the only muslim country who can shake your faith.

ok u win i loose! happy now! cheerup!
hope to meet you after death!
We all will know than who was right and who was wrong! and what basically the meaning of life was ?? !

wish you best of luck!
May God Bless you!
Allah Hafiz

Posted by Sufian | Report as abusive
 

Sameer, I agree with your nuclear safe bunker suggestion considering in the sense that it is important to know how to land before flying. we all know how to shoot but protection/safety part is not talked about. So bunkers plus other awareness in case of nuclear fallout is a good thing to have. US took lots of precautions, drills etc during cold war.
But, flashing nuclear toys and using the language about nukes in sense of use this way is irresponsible. I am proud that India does not use this language. Certain things need not be said since they are given and let us leave it to our able officers in Indian Army.

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive
 

Sufian said: “i dont wanna be slaughtered in india being a muslim and i dont wanna live a coward life under your so called extremist even more than LeT the BJP and shiv sena and other holy superstars u kno 61 years history of pakistan but unfortunately u dont kno the history of hindus not hidustan em talkin abt hinduism and u even u dont the original name of this religion which u call it hinduism coz its a geographical meaning!”
“hope to meet you after death! We all will know than who was right and who was wrong! and what basically the meaning of life was ?? !”
“1st read abt your religion than u can have ur say abt islam and pakistan, coz pakistan is still the only muslim country who can shake your faith.”
————Sufian, what sweet words! Did I say anything in my last post? I looked back and saw nothing that I was not testing your knowledge of religion. Rather I said that you seem to be a religious guy. I was just talking about 61 yrs of India-Pak mutual mistrust etc. and all that stuff in context of the, claiming the neither the superiority of Hinduism nor my knowledge of Islam. All I believe in is brotherhood, not Muslim brotherhood not Hindu Brotherhood not Sikh or…….-brotherhoods. I am an ignorant one and may not match the knowledge you have. So I may not be able to meet with you after death since you will be in JANNAT and I will in DOZAKH. Let us talk about life and meeting each other now happily before our expiry date. You are most welcome in India.
Just to clarify, BJP is a political party but yes there are radical wings as you mentioned and some more. There have been incidents that brought bad name to the party and India. Such incidents have happened under several parties. But many if not all are investigated and accused held. With my tiny knowledge, I cannot label BJP as extremist yet. If I say BJP LeT and terrorist in the same breath, I will ensure my entry into DOZAKH.
Sufian, imagine Pak in India’s shoes (80% Musllims and 15% Hindus) and how these 15% Hindus would be doing in Pakistan in 61 yrs. why I said so?—compare the % growth in Hindus in pak and Muslims in India. And also compare what Indian Muslims achieved and what Pak Hindus achieved (Muslims are shining in all sectors). I am proud of any peaceful Indian irrespective of his/her religion and condemn extremism/terrorism of any kind. Majority of Indians share my belief.

Allah Hafiz

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive
 

Sufian,

Was this a serious attempt trying to convert Rajeev? A real bad attempt,if it was. Jehoshua Witnesses kids preaching door to door do better.

You’re last post was exaggerated,unintelligent and a defensive retreat. “Don’t want to be slaughtered in India because I’m Muslim”? What kind of parting shot was that? I’m sure Qadiyanis probably say the same thing in Pakistan.

You’re comments lacked cohesion for any kind of Dawaa. The comments were also an insight to radicalism and the wrong irrational and unobjective thinkings Pakistani folks have fallen into. You’re not religious. You’re superstitious. And apparently it seemed that Rajiv knew Pakistan’s history and you didn’t…nor did you prove to know more about Hinduism than Rajeev. What was surprising was your quick frustration and that you quit because you couldn’t put up convincing arguments.

Dr.Zakir Naiq maybe a good orator but he’s not really a great academic and his Salafist beliefs are the type of beliefs that roots sectarian divide in Pakistan (however I do not dismiss all his lectures). Actually there have been Muslims who’ve converted to Hinduism and the other religions, unlike Rajeev said that you can only be born Hindu. However Islam is the fastest growing relgion because of higher conversion rates (with intelligent Dawaa) boosted by population growth.

Jews and Hindus are the only ones who play conspiracy games? I guess we’re all peachy with ISI or Al Qaeda conspiracies? hogwash.

I fear you believe in a lot of other things that have no basis. You probably want a Wahabi like Sharia law state which is totally opposite to what Jinnah wanted. You came off as a religious nut, not a balanced poster.

Posted by Saf | Report as abusive
 

Saf:
Thanks for your last post.
“Actually there have been Muslims who’ve converted to Hinduism and the other religions, unlike Rajeev said that you can only be born Hindu.”
—Saf: Just a clarifiaction, did I say that one can only be born Hindu?

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive
 

My mistake, Rajeev.

It was Indian1127.

My apologies for the false attribution.

Posted by Saf | Report as abusive
 

thanks for responding Rajeev bro and Saf bhai,

i’m glad atleast we are sharing these things in a bit peaceful manner here but once again my apologies if any of my words hurt anyone feelings, i’m nothing and believe you people are better in god’s eye coz in islam we have been taught this thing that always treat the next person that he/she might be more closer to god then ownself, so once again plzz forgive me if any of my word hurt your feelings.

Thanks rajeev for welcoming me, b4 26/11 i had dreams to visit india :( but unfortunately these kinda incidents which specially hits the islam and muslims in such a way that i’m afraid of .. :( but i pray that inshALLAH the conditions wil be better in both countries so we can visit eachother and i also welcome you to pakistan, its not like what it seems in media and in news all around.

Saf:

Thanks for guessing exactly 101% right abt my commenting behaviour, these r my 1st ever posts to any blog and em not that much religious also i’m clean shaved person, watches bollywood, hollywood and listen to music also but the thing that atleast i firmly believe that there is success in what my religion rules abt living life.that’s y also count myself as in hell, so no worries we can meet there…

but for rajeev bro i’ll try to meet u in this world also, cudnt understand from where shud i start and where shud i end there is so much more to say and ask!

khair keepin in touch with you brothers, best of luck and may god bless you always!

Takecare!

Posted by Sufian | Report as abusive
 

Saf: Thank for the clarification.

Sufian: I heard you. Apologies accepted. Let us use blogging to express ourselves, discuss over the issues in a rational way— not fall prey to pre-conceived notions and be open to ideas. Practicing any faith/religion is one’s own prerogative, but the notion of superiority of one religion over the other is the basis of radicalism. Bad apples exist in all religions—neither you nor I should try to defend them. I got your point about “slaughtering of Muslims” yes unfortunately it has happened but how many incidents and how many places in India has that happened—look at the positive side too. TSo looking at this, your feeling that “living a coward life in India” is exagerated. No place/country is perfect–it is all relative and looking at the diversity of religion/culure/language, some problems are natural but remember there are lot more positives than negatives but it depends how one looks at it. My Iranian (Muslim) friend who studied in India and has been to many other countries, including USA. He told me one day that all said and done, India is the MOST democratic country (better than USA even) and anyone can do whatever he/she wants. He has seen problems in India and other places. There lot of deficiencies too but I am proud of the positives India has.

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive
 

Rajeev,

Thanks a lot for being nice to me :) i wish almost bloggers must adopt your way of communication, this is the must and the far most thing in building any good relationship that you neglect negatives and come towards positives and share the commonalities on which both parties can agree, 1st of all congratulations to india for such a remarkable nuclear reactor business deal with france, wish you best of luck, bro i wish i cud do something for my country dill kerta hy kasam se aik khoon ki holi khailooon aur “rang de basanti” ker daloon in hukmranooon ki so that atleast we can do sumthing to make this country excel and towards progressive measurements instead of keep under the pressure of ****** USA …. i dont have words.

i dont know why ppl understand that there is no eternal life in this world so why not live this life in a way so that other ppl have atleast good memories for him/her and live this life for others instead for one’s ownself. life is the name of giving and living for others, sacrifice for others and try to give out more to others and i believe that’s a real spirit of living and only good can have internal satisfaction with it! Rajeev why not we should join hands and make some move to atleast among our circle of friends and i bet for sure that even a base or foundation which begins with a single drop or brick can be a river or fort of success and happiness one day!

As you said you believe in brotherhood then why not make is possible and start our this with a lil’ effort it need some push and i bet i can bring more rajeev in this ocean of brotherhood and peaceful communication and we can achieve atleast something before our lives will end!

so let’s begin…

Posted by Sufian | Report as abusive
 

knock knock!!!

Posted by Sufian | Report as abusive
 

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