Comments on: Britain and the Kashmir banana skin http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2009/01/29/britain-and-the-kashmir-banana-skin/ Perspectives on Pakistan Thu, 01 Oct 2015 19:31:05 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=4.2.5 By: naila http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2009/01/29/britain-and-the-kashmir-banana-skin/comment-page-1/#comment-12753 Sun, 15 Feb 2009 19:44:38 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/?p=1758#comment-12753 Comments no Comments, U people are wasting your time by speaking on Kashmir issue or kashmiris, there is no point to debate on it because no one can resolve it Kashmir was paradise but is no more it is like a dead body now no soul in it. No rights no human rights and nobody can give it to them. No U.S, No Britian None other Supreme Powers of world can even speak on it word is not authorised by india. Anyways i don’t want to waste my time out here speaking on kashmir issue but there is request please don’t involve word kashmir in mumbai attacks because it was terrorism not freedom movement and kashmiri’s are not terrorist. I think we all know who did it so please don’t bring us kashmiri’s in the scene of mumbai we are no were near to that.

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By: Mauryan http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2009/01/29/britain-and-the-kashmir-banana-skin/comment-page-1/#comment-12406 Mon, 09 Feb 2009 04:21:45 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/?p=1758#comment-12406 Britain has no rights meddling in the affairs of the sub-continent. They are partly responsible for this long lasting divide and hatred between India and Pakistan. The very idea of Pakistan was hatched in London. Most Muslims in India did not care when the Muslim League wanted to increase the momentum on the creation of Pakistan. Only their “direct action” achieved their objectives. And the violence that resulted has left a permanent scar in the relationship between the Indians and Pakistanis. There is passionate hatred against each other.

Before Mumbai 26/11 attacks, the two countries were beginning to warm up towards each other. Zardari even said that there is an Indian in every Pakistani. Kashmir had become quiet and there were discussions on reducing troops there.

Obama appeared in the horizon and said two things – that he would double up his efforts in Afghanistan and that Kashmir issue is a part of the plan. 26/11 happened immediately and everything was reset. This clearly shows that the whole thing was carefully planned out to drive a deep wedge in the bilateral improvements between the two countries.

Kashmir is not the root cause of terrorism. The US did not launch a war on terrorism because of Kashmir problem. Pakistan wants to cut a deal by including Kashmir in the plan as a bargain for its cooperation with the US in its war against terrorism.

In general the West has learned to turn a blind eye to the insurgencies inside Kashmir. What they call as terrorism is only that directed at them. As far India is concerned, whatever is happening inside its territory has not been included in the Western definition of global terrorism. The world, according to the Western powers, is only made up of Western Europe, US, Canada, Australia, New Zealand and rich countries like Japan, South Korea and some in the middle east. Of course one cannot exclude israel. The rest can go to hell and no one cared when Pakistani establishment went about bleeding India slowly. India was told to seek diplomacy. Once in a while a clown would be appointed to “settle” the matter in the sub-continent.

Pakistan’s agenda has been too India-centric. That is the only thing that motivates them to unite and do something. One can see it even in their sports teams. Losing to India is worse than death. Their psyche is rigid with a superiority complex. They do not mind the white men above them. But Hindus? No way. They are poor, they are unclean, they are unsophisticated, they are corrupt, they are stupid and most of all, they are weak. This attitude has taken over the Pakistani psyche. They will not mind eating grass, but somehow they have to achieve parity with India. This is a ridiculous attitude. They have spent their entire effort on bringing down India at any cost and have not done anything to build their infrastructure or set up solid foundations. Read the articles in magazines like Pak Tribune where one sees warped articles against India by every journalist.

Now people have to listen to inexperienced and ignorant clowns like Miliband on what to do. There is a huge Muslim vote bank in UK and Miliband will never mess with it.

Anyway, if Kashmir is given away to Pakistan, it will not end anything. Trust me. It might make them blind sighted and they might try to do more before getting burnt. Their hatred for India and Indians overwhelms their emotions and they will blame India for everything until their country falls apart. It is unfortunate. Superiority complex is a dangerous emotion and Pakistanis have been ruined by it. And amongst themselves, the Punjabi Sunni Muslims have the worst attitude towards others. It is they who are driving their country’s military, intelligence and politics.

If India manages to survive through the onslaught, sooner or later this contempt will begin to turn towards the Sindhis, Mohajirs, Baluchis and so on. Then the self destruction will accelerate. India has to do nothing. Even if Pakistan gets Kashmir as a part of the bargain, it needs to exist as a country to keep Kashmir.

Hopefully India will not see BJP in power for sometime. Those loons might start some religious calamity to get to the seats of power. But if the moderates and secularists can retain power, sanity will prevail and it will allow the disintegration of Pakistan, which will be the best thing for the rest of the world and eliminating global terrorism for good.

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By: Saf http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2009/01/29/britain-and-the-kashmir-banana-skin/comment-page-1/#comment-12017 Wed, 04 Feb 2009 21:09:53 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/?p=1758#comment-12017 Bangash,

Are you happy with the Mumbai attacks? Are you admitting it is State sponsored?

Do you know the history of East Pakistan/Bangladesh? Do you know why Mukti Bahini formed?

The very same way we accuse India of State terrorism in Kashmir, is exactly the same thing happening in East Pakistan. But worse.

It ended up in genocide and mass rapes. Are you seriously going to think this was an internal matter and deny it?

I know which side you’re coming from…and I don’t like it one bit…

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By: Bangash Khan http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2009/01/29/britain-and-the-kashmir-banana-skin/comment-page-1/#comment-11980 Wed, 04 Feb 2009 18:38:50 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/?p=1758#comment-11980 Britain needs to keep the pressure over India on Kashmir, as it is root cause of terrorism and Indo-Pak friction. The Pakistani govt should also be vocal about the suppression and violation of Kashmiri human rights by India, which has been going on for 60 years.

@punjabiyaar
We are already tackling your agents in Waziristan/Baluchistan. Its good you brought up 1971, as it was the first instance of state-sponsored terrorism (Mukti Bahini) in South asia. Now Indians complain when Pakistanis reply to you in your own language.

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By: Qasim http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2009/01/29/britain-and-the-kashmir-banana-skin/comment-page-1/#comment-11806 Sun, 01 Feb 2009 02:07:42 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/?p=1758#comment-11806 Here is an article I have copied & pasted:

Mohammed Hanif, the brilliant author of the engrossing book “The Case of Exploding Mangoes” (I have been planning to write about it ever since I first read it many months ago; and I will) – known to many for his stint at Herald before he joined BBC’s Urdu Service – has just written a most cogent and readable op-ed in The Times of India which is wroth reading; whether you agree with it or not. It is a good argument as well as a good read. And I say that even thought there are more than one points here that I might quibble with. But before we quibble, lets give Mohammed Hanif the floor – and a full and proper hearing. Here is the op-ed he wrote in The Times of India, in full:

Ten Myths About Pakistan

By Mohammed Hanif

Living in Pakistan and reading about it in the Indian press can sometimes be quite a disorienting experience: one wonders what place on earth they’re talking about? I wouldn’t be surprised if an Indian reader going through Pakistani papers has asked the same question in recent days. Here are some common assumptions about Pakistan and its citizens that I have come across in the Indian media.

1. Pakistan controls the jihadis: Or Pakistan’s government controls the jihadis. Or Pakistan Army controls the jihadis. Or ISI controls the jihadis. Or some rogue elements from the ISI control the Jihadis. Nobody knows the whole truth but increasingly it’s the tail that wags the dog. We must remember that the ISI-Jihadi alliance was a marriage of convenience, which has broken down irrevocably. Pakistan army has lost more soldiers at the hands of these jihadis than it ever did fighting India.

2. Musharraf was in control, Zardari is not: Let’s not forget that General Musharraf seized power after he was fired from his job as the army chief by an elected prime minister. Musharraf first appeased jihadis, then bombed them, and then appeased them again. The country he left behind has become a very dangerous place, above all for its own citizens. There is a latent hankering in sections of the Indian middle class for a strongman. Give Manmohan Singh a military uniform, put all the armed forces under his direct command, make his word the law of the land, and he too will go around thumping his chest saying that it’s his destiny to save India from Indians. Zardari will never have the kind of control that Musharraf had. But Pakistanis do not want another Musharraf.

3. Pakistan, which Pakistan? For a small country, Pakistan is very diverse, not only ethnically but politically as well. General Musharraf’s government bombed Pashtuns in the north for being Islamists and close to the Taliban and at the same time it bombed Balochs in the South for NOT being Islamists and for subscribing to some kind of retro-socialist, anti Taliban ethos. You have probably heard the joke about other countries having armies but Pakistan’s army having a country. Nobody in Pakistan finds it funny.

4. Pakistan and its loose nukes: Pakistan’s nuclear programme is under a sophisticated command and control system, no more under threat than India or Israel’s nuclear assets are threatened by Hindu or Jewish extremists. For a long time Pakistan’s security establishment’s other strategic asset was jihadi organisations, which in the last couple of years have become its biggest liability.

5. Pakistan is a failed state: If it is, then Pakistanis have not noticed. Or they have lived in it for such a long time that they have become used to its dysfunctional aspects. Trains are late but they turn up, there are more VJs, DJs, theatre festivals, melas, and fashion models than a failed state can accommodate. To borrow a phrase from President Zardari, there are lots of non-state actors like Abdul Sattar Edhi who provide emergency health services, orphanages and shelters for sick animals.

6. It is a deeply religious country: Every half-decent election in this country has proved otherwise. Religious parties have never won more than a fraction of popular vote. Last year Pakistan witnessed the largest civil rights movements in the history of this region. It was spontaneous, secular and entirely peaceful. But since people weren’t raising anti-India or anti-America slogans, nobody outside Pakistan took much notice.

7. All Pakistanis hate India: Three out of four provinces in Pakistan – Sindh, Baluchistan, NWFP – have never had any popular anti-India sentiment ever. Punjabis who did impose India as enemy-in-chief on Pakistan are now more interested in selling potatoes to India than destroying it. There is a new breed of al-Qaida inspired jihadis who hate a woman walking on the streets of Karachi as much as they hate a woman driving a car on the streets of Delhi. In fact there is not much that they do not hate: they hate America, Denmark, China CDs, barbers, DVDs , television, even football. Imran Khan recently said that these jihadis will never attack a cricket match but nobody takes him seriously.

8. Training camps: There are militant sanctuaries in the tribal areas of Pakistan but definitely not in Muzaffarabad or Muridke, two favourite targets for Indian journalists, probably because those are the cities they have ever been allowed to visit. After all how much training do you need if you are going to shoot at random civilians or blow yourself up in a crowded bazaar? So if anyone thinks a few missiles targeted at Muzaffarabad will teach anyone a lesson, they should switch off their TV and try to locate it on the map.

9. RAW would never do what ISI does: Both the agencies have had a brilliant record of creating mayhem in the neighbouring countries. Both have a dismal record when it comes to protecting their own people. There is a simple reason that ISI is a bigger, more notorious brand name: It was CIA’s franchise during the jihad against the Soviets. And now it’s busy doing jihad against those very jihadis.

10. Pakistan is poor, India is rich: Pakistanis visiting India till the mid-eighties came back very smug. They told us about India’s slums, and that there was nothing to buy except handicrafts and saris. Then Pakistanis could say with justifiable pride that nobody slept hungry in their country. But now, not only do people sleep hungry in both the countries, they also commit suicide because they see nothing but a lifetime of hunger ahead. A debt-ridden farmer contemplating suicide in Maharashtra and a mother who abandons her children in Karachi because she can’t feed them: this is what we have achieved in our mutual desire to teach each other a lesson.

So, quibble if you will. But do tell us what you think about the argument that Hanif is making.

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By: chander http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2009/01/29/britain-and-the-kashmir-banana-skin/comment-page-1/#comment-11768 Sat, 31 Jan 2009 18:02:52 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/?p=1758#comment-11768 pakistanis got no brains!

lets say you got kashmir, then you will have a bonus of 195 million moslems from India who will become “personna non grottas”. Now that will certainly double your “begging bowls” for the donor world

they are already considered “unwanted” by most in India.

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By: Manish http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2009/01/29/britain-and-the-kashmir-banana-skin/comment-page-1/#comment-11743 Sat, 31 Jan 2009 05:10:34 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/?p=1758#comment-11743 Giles Edgood,

In continuation to my earlier comment, Shimla Accord signed between India and Paksitan in July,1972 provides as under :
” In Jammu and Kashmir, the line of control resulting from the cease-fire of December 17, 1971, shall be respected by both sides without prejudice to the recognised position of either side. Neither side shall seek to alter it unilaterally, irrespective of mutual differences and legal interpretations. Both sides further undertake to refrain from the threat or the use of force in violation of this line. ”

Shimla Agreement is very explicit about this LOC and its conversion to international boundary , which leaves no room for any complacency on this account . By raking up an already dead issue, Miliband is fishing in troubled water. Asian Sub -Continent is the poorest region of the world , poverty, illiteracy and lack of health care are the biggest problem , and yet this region is the world’s most troubled region in the world , with proliferation of nuclear weapons, arms race between India and Pakistan, has made the region more unstable. There is global debate as to who is in the control of Pakistan? Pakistani economy is in doldrums, unemployment is rampant ,it is dependent on foreign aid. In this situation, the international community should talk about economic development, The most astonishing fact is that the poor Pakistanis are made to protest about danish cartons or salman rushdie, majority of pakistanis , average paksitani is as ignorant about them , yet they are made to protest , it would have more heartening to see average pakistani raise his voice against rampant corruption, economic deprivation , existence of terrorists on Pakistani soil which are more deterrent for its economic development and foreign investment.

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By: rajeev http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2009/01/29/britain-and-the-kashmir-banana-skin/comment-page-1/#comment-11708 Fri, 30 Jan 2009 20:39:57 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/?p=1758#comment-11708 N. Javeed, Ali, Qasim and others who have posted on Kashmir issue. Yes sure let us have an independent Kashmir but we cannot have just by asking and wishing. There are lots of questions which India-Pak in bilateral talks will have to go through. I have post in this blog with 9-10 points and my views on the issue, let us discuss that rather than using the same old rhetoric.

White man cannot solve all of our problems.

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By: Ali http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2009/01/29/britain-and-the-kashmir-banana-skin/comment-page-1/#comment-11702 Fri, 30 Jan 2009 19:42:45 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/?p=1758#comment-11702 Hundreds of protesters have clashed with police in Srinagar, summer capital of Indian-administered Kashmir, police and officials say.

The demonstrators were rallying for the release of separatist leaders who have been detained in recent months.

They chanted slogans in support of independence for Kashmir and threw stones at security forces who fired tear gas shells to control the crowd.

The leaders were detained during elections held in December and January.

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By: Blogger http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2009/01/29/britain-and-the-kashmir-banana-skin/comment-page-1/#comment-11692 Fri, 30 Jan 2009 18:14:58 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/?p=1758#comment-11692 N. Javeed,
What is she waiting for next? – Bangalore, Madras, Calcutta, etc?
— Waiting for Islamabad, Karachi, Lahore etc.

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