What does Pakistan want from U.S. envoy Holbrooke ?

January 30, 2009

Former Pakistan ambassador to London and Washington Maleeha
Lodhi has given a taste of what Richard Holbrooke can expect when
he makes his maiden visit to Islamabad next week in his new role as
President Barack Obama’s special envoy to Pakistan and
Afghanistan.

She may have owed her diplomatic career to General Pervez Musharraf,  but being an ex-official does not mean she has lost touch.

Writing in The News, the paper she used to edit, Lodhi listed an eight-point agenda for Pakistan as it braces for Holbrooke, a diplomat with a reputation for playing hardball.

Lines have to be drawn to make the United States respect Pakistani sovereignty and understand the limits of cooperation, Lodhi writes in an opinion piece titled “Back to the Future”.

Here’s the Pakistani agenda as she sees it :
1. U.S. missile attacks on Pakistani territory should end.
2. Assistance under the Biden-Luger bill should be offered
with no strings attached.
3. Give Pakistan helicopters, night vision, radar to fight a counter-insurgency, it doesn’t need conventional arms from America.
4. Give Pakistan a break in trade agreements. The all- important textile industry needs a lifeline.
5. Make India part of the equation for stabilising Kashmir, by recognising Pakistan’s security concerns on its eastern border.
6. The United States should reshape its Afghan policy to take into account Pakistan’s security concerns, otherwise no strategy will work.
7. Pakistan must also tell the United States that sending more troops to Afghanistan without a change in strategy will backfire.
8. Policies to stabilise Afghanistan should not end up destabilising Pakistan. The Taliban should be prised away from al Qaeda, and a reconciliation process with the Taliban begun.

President Asif Ali Zardari in an op-ed piece for the Washington Post also covered some of that ground, urging the new U.S. administration to boost both military and non-military aid to help Pakistan fight extremists. “Give us the tools and we will get the job done,” he wrote.

And he made clear too he expected Holbrooke to work with both Pakistan and India on the issue of Kashmir, although as special envoy for Afghanistan and Pakistan, India was technically not part of his remit.

 ”Much as the Palestine issue remains the core obstacle to peace in the Middle East, the question of Kashmir must be addressed in some meaningful way to bring stability to the region,” Zardari said.

Reasonable expectations of a sovereign nation ? Or is the time for expectations over ?

[Pics of Richard Holbrooke and a protest in Karachi against U.S. missile strikes in the northwest]

Comments

PK wrote:
“I envy India,not because they are an economic powerhouse-sure their per capita GDP is lesser than us- but because they have got a single command at the center which has got at least some fear of the people. The world listens to them and look at us like a misbehaving child because half of the time our PM himself does not know who’s ruling the nation. ”
Kid where about do you live in Pakistan, millions of proud Pakistanis live with honour and dignity. Pakistan is a 170 million strong muslim nations and a nuclear power. Pakistan is a major Non-NATO ally of the US(MNNA) and a frontline state. NATO secretary general, UK Foregin secretary , US Vice President elect are only a few individuals visited Pakistan recently. Friends of Pakistan(FOP) is a group of friendly countries supporting Pakistan’s economic revival. We only lack on economic front and need to ensure amid global economic crisis we build a strong and dependable economy. Pakistan is strategic important country. I envy Pakistan always, Pakistan is the greatest country with great people capable of achieving anything in the world. Pakistan has no shortage of potential. Now that you envy India, I suggest take the next train to India. Good bye.

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive
 

Anitha wrote:
“Woudn’t it be in the interest of ISI or pak govt to extradite criminals like Dawood (Indian citizen) rather than protecting him ?? ”
Anitha ISI is an intelligence agency just like Indian RAW, US CIA, Israeli Mossad, Russian KGB. The world of intelligence is totally different, these agencies sometime share intelligence with each other, in case of Pakistan and Israel, both these countries have no diplomatic relations and never recognized each other. However, it is believed that there has been a working relationship between Mossad and ISI. In case of ISI, it has developed termendous skills and has become a very strong agency working to identify and eliminate internal and external threats to Pakistan.
Now the question of extradition of Dawood Ibrahim, Pakistan does not have an extradition treaty with India. Pakistan is under no international obligation to extradite any Pakistani or non-Pakistani citizens to India. UK foreign secretary David Milliband stated in New Delhi that any individuals should face trial in Pakistan and there is NO need to extradite them to India. Pakistan is a soverign nation. If India wants an extradition treaty, they MUST restart the peace process.
you stated:”Dont you think that would be the kind of actions that would make India and pakistan trust each other and sit for talks ??”
You imply that Pakistan first extradite Dawood Ibrahim and then India will sit down and talk to sign an extradition treaty.
LETS DO IT THE RIGHT WAY, LET INDIA AND PAKISTAN RESUME PEACE PROCESS AND NEGOTIATE AND SIGN AN EXTRADITION TREATY FIRST. Next Dawood Ibrahim can be extradited to India immediately afterwards.

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive
 

Umair, I know what ISI is..it doesn’t make any difference if people like Dawood are hanged in Pakistan or India..but the Paksitani law do not allow a person to be put on trial if the charge is the crime outside pakistani territory, the words spoken by Gilani that the terrorist master minds will eb tried in pakistani courts is a joke..to which court will Gilani take those terrorists in pakistan for the crime do not fall in to any pakistnai court jurisdiction ?? the witness for the terrorist activities are in mumbai !! how will Gilani run a court case in pakistan with out witness ??
And for Dawood..he travelled to Pakistan on a fake Indian passport and has been a chamcha to ISI for years and ISI is protecting him in karachi.
And there dont have to be a extradition treaty to kick out someone who is not a pakistani citizen.
Dawood thrievs on drugs smuggling, if my memory serves me right..you yourself have many times said drugs are coming in to pakistan from afghanistan and is a problem.. doesn’t it make sense to arrest him in which ever country he is ??

Posted by Anitha | Report as abusive
 

Anitha,

When the ISI aren’t going to publicly admit that they knew about the LeT, they’re not about to do it with Dawood. The question is…are the ISI into anti-Indian activity NOW? And I would answer, ‘no’. Like I said in my previous post, 6 months ago you would have had a different answer. The political wing was a BIG BIG thing, perhaps not outside our borders, but certainly to the viability of any opposition party in the country. Its a sign of change, and is not a department related to India. I’ve already outlined the change in leadership, reduction in field agent autonomy and change in religious ideological mindset in the organization that should stop self-sabotage.

Anitha, I think its fine to still mistrust them. I still mistrust them myself due to their history. I’m just more optimistic and so far the results have been surprising.

Posted by Saf | Report as abusive
 

maybe mrs lodhi should have had the guts to say the same things when her boss was in power.now when thes people have no office and no standings they have pangs of conscience and suudenly feel very much for their motherland.

Posted by James | Report as abusive
 

Anitha,
Dawood, he is undercover not because of Indian Intelligence looking for him, it’s because most of his rivals are waiting outside for him at his Karachi residence.

Most of his old aides are now rivals just because he became closer to Anti-India and Anti-Hindu movement by joining hands with ISI.

Come on how can Pakistan give away dawood when his turnover is around 120 Crores.

In absence of extradition treaty with Pakistan, all that India can do is bring these people under the books of World and UN, so their extradition will happen.

I recall many over here were talking about Interpol, they are one waste people in the World, India had handed over all the details of Dawood during 1993 blasts, everyone know he is undercover in Karachi yet none dare to arrest him.

Posted by Blogger | Report as abusive
 

Saf, this incident was recently reported in NY times.

Gilani wanted to tell Bush that he had sent forces into the tribal areas to clean out a major madrassa where hard-line ideology and intolerance were part of the daily curriculum. There were roughly 25,000 such private Islamic schools around Pakistan, though only a small number of them regularly bred young terrorists. The one he decided to target was run by the Haqqani faction of Islamic militants, one of the most powerful in the tribal areas.

Though Gilani never knew it, Bush was aware of this gift in advance. The National Security Agency had picked up intercepts indicating that a Pakistani ISI warned the leadership of the school about what was coming before carrying out its raid. “They must have called 1-800-HAQQANI,” said one person who was familiar with the intercepted conversation. According to another, the account of the warning sent to the school was almost comic. “It was something like, ‘Hey, we’re going to hit your place in a few days, so if anyone important is there, you might want to tell them to scram.’ ”

When the “attack” on the madrassa came, the Pakistani forces grabbed a few guns and hauled away a few teenagers. Sure enough, a few days later Gilani showed up in the Oval Office and conveyed the wonderful news to Bush: the great crackdown on the madrassas had begun. The officials in the room — Bush; his national security adviser, Stephen Hadley; and others — did not want to confront Gilani with the evidence that the school had been warned. That would have required revealing sensitive intercepts, and they judged, according to participants in the discussion, that Gilani was both incapable of keeping a secret and incapable of cracking down on his military and intelligence units. Indeed, Gilani may not even have been aware that his gift was a charade: Bush and Hadley may well have known more about the military’s actions than the prime minister himself.

Posted by Anitha | Report as abusive
 

Saf,
I agree that most of the ISI feathers are getting pluck, but for how long? They will retaliate and another coup?
Every time we see some thing good happening at Pakistan then next minute we evidence a coup. This really frustrates anybody to start the whole process with all new people having different ideology.
60 years yaar…. :)

Posted by Blogger | Report as abusive
 

Blogger, Dawood is definately not under cover in pakistan..he very often attends lavish wedding functions..goes to cricket matches…parties in with political big shots…yeah in India i heard chota rajan who was his right hand tried to get him killed more than once in other countries.

Posted by Anitha | Report as abusive
 

Anitha,

Can you post the NY Post link. I’d like to save it. It sounds plausible. And you’re right, I also believe Dawood’s not undercover. The joke these days is “Ask Javed Miandad”. Miandad’s son is married to Dawood Ibrahim’s daughter. Which seriously filled my heart with doubts about my hero’s accomplishments.

Posted by Saf | Report as abusive
 

60 years yaar…. :)

-Blogger

lol. I know yaar, i know…. :(

Posted by Saf | Report as abusive
 

Umair,part 1

We already had this nonsense talk about me being Pakistani. You can’t comprehend it because you’re in a bubble. Kid? How old are you?

Yes, we have many professionals. But guess what? They’re not shining. Why? Because we have corrupt and neglectful people sitting at every position throughout private and public sectors in Pakistan undermining progress. When someone I know whose a brilliant engineer, and worked with the best multi-national companies, tries to make their impact again in Pakistan only to face hostility in the organization with one Retired Army Officer telling him he’ll break his legs if he did something, then you’ve got a bloody problem.

Our pilots are the best, yet our PAF and Navy are still peanuts due to army neglect and our National Carrier has still not taken flight above the red ink due to bureaucracy with the embarrassment of having our planes grounded in Europe due to poor quality just a year and a half ago.

Our National Resources are limited with Gas supplies running out. What irks me most is how every successive government always encouraged the poor man to buy more CNG, when the truth is our reserves are depleting at an alarming pace and eventually prices will keep rising.

Posted by Saf | Report as abusive
 

Part 2

Sri Lanka shell shocking us in the final wasn’t exactly reminding me of ’92 in cricket. We’ve been languishing in hockey for so long, its almost dead. Where are we in squash? Why don’t we have a viable football team? Why do you keep dreaming of the past when we should be realizing the current state of affairs and working for the future?

Actually we do need more Pakistanis who degrade other Pakistanis and HOLD them ACCOUNTABLE! So many of us have become boastful, deluded and willing to look the other way, that we can’t seem to tell right from wrong.

An example: That hypocrite Justice Qayuum admitted that Wasim Akram was also guilty of match fixing but chose to dismiss it from his inquiry because he was a ‘national treasure’. We should be outraged at how morally bankrupt that decision was. There are so many individuals like him, and Wasim, in positions high to low that make these ethical excuses.

Posted by Saf | Report as abusive
 

Part 3

I talk about the successes but I don’t FORGET and EXCUSE the failures. And unfortunately you don’t seem to have grasped the complexity of the situation. SWAT has been taken over, YAAR! I used to go there for vacations and now people have become refugees! Our dumbest feudal Senator who defends honour killings, is the filthy richest as printed in the news yesterday.

F$#@@#ing Tehrik-e-Taliban had the audacity to open an office in the middle of Karachi! We had a parallel Lal Masjid government open in the middle of Islamabad! Our ex PM was assassinated and we have yet to have a proper conclusion.

These aren’t LITTLE things. Little things is entering Jinnah terminal, and seeing everybody breakout in line and cutting ahead without respect, when a couple of hours ago in Dubai they were all well behaved standing in line. That is unacceptable. That is a mentality I want to get rid off.

Posted by Saf | Report as abusive
 

crap.
I can’t seem to copy paste my part 4 properly!

So yea, I say alot of mean stuff. Only because I’m more critical and want high standards. Only because I like Pakistanis to stay principled rather than say ‘sab chalta hai, yaar’. Do u get it now?

Take it from PK. 80% of us don’t even know about Pakistan’s history until we step out and start questioning what we know. Screaming PAKISTAN ZINDABAD will not make u a better Pakistani nor does it mean you’re any more patriotic than me. Challenge your perceptions.

And yea, I’ve been to India. And Afghanistan. Yet I’m here chilling in Karachi 8)
Thanks. Khuda Hafiz.

Posted by Saf | Report as abusive
 
 

Saf
your 4 part thought provoking posts are a good analysis of our current situation. This is precisely why my belief is ever stronger on Pakistan. Pakistan is alive with possibilites, this country has been looted by both hands, wars, internal conflicts, economic sanctions, terrorism, we have come a long way. We still have to go a long way. The need is to revive the spirit of this nation. Why do you think Pakistan cricket cannot revive the glory of 92′ ?why can’t the golden era of hockey not return? what happened to the champions of squash? why we dont see the Pakistan flag and national anthem once used to play at British open? We have done it before, we will do it again. Swat and Bajaur are a test for us. From Islamabad to Karachi we Pakistanis need to unite as one nation and come together. I dont say all this because I am blindly patriotic, I say this because I have worked and travelled abroad and in my opinion Pakistanis are very talented and committed people.

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive
 

Umair calls me a kid :) I had seen his perceptions that we had won the war against India in 1965-a lie from our army which we are digesting it till to date. And I had seen 1971 occur :) Umair says “Friends of Pakistan(FOP) is a group of friendly countries supporting Pakistan’s economic revival. ” Huh? Utter Garbage! What did China do when we asked for help? He/She says,”Pakistan is strategic important country” .That’s why the whole world try to invade our nation and destroy it!. Remember the war on terror and remember that the only time India allowed an US war craft for refueling in its land was in 1991 and it never happened again due to the people’s pressure. Does people’s pressure exist here?

And you say you envy Pakistan :). A patriot doesn’t feel jealous of his own nation,he loves his nation . I love Pakistan and I envy India somewhat:)

Posted by pk | Report as abusive
 

Saf,
You mention about Pakistan’s poor position in hockey .Ya it is sad. But I am chuckling,do you know why? Its because Indians are even worse than us. Ours is almost dead,theirs is dead already ha ha-sorry Indians!Just can’t help myself grinning :) But they are just behind us in squash and they are well established in Chess,a game we haven’t even started..

Posted by pk | Report as abusive
 

PK,
Oye stop laughing at us on Hockey. We will always strike back,you know. By the way Chess need brains! -( I am sorry if I am offending anyone,I hope Pakistan will also come up in chess)

Posted by mitchell | Report as abusive
 

Mitchell,
Talking about brains,One of my friend visited your railways page about Kashmir Railways and reservation only to discover an advertisement on flights,”Get Flight tickets at a rate as low as Railways” :-)

http://www.indianrailwaysreservation.in/ train-to-kashmir.html

I don’t know whether we can see the exact advertisement as it changes from country to country. I think you live in India and you can see it.

Posted by pk | Report as abusive
 

“Ours (hockey) is almost dead,theirs is dead already ha ha-sorry Indians!Just can’t help myself grinning But they are just behind us in squash and they are well established in Chess,a game we haven’t even started..”
—Posted by pk

pk: : Yes, Indian hockey is worse and sadly it is our National game. KPS gill former DG punjab police who earned name in eradicating (ISI supported) sikh terrorism (we Indians are rightly obsessed with ISI :-)] is the chief of IHF and has not done anything for the game. Hope it regains its old glory.

India is big in Cricket and IPL (Pak players make money in IPL too; guess not this time).

India is still good at Gandhian games of chess and teenis. interestingly, we are making name in games like shooting and boxing (olympic gold and bronze). Mahatma Gandhi will not be too happy about latter two–but with change in geopolitical scenario, relevant games are must :-) lol

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive
 

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/11/magazi ne/11pakistan-t.html?_r=2&scp=1&sq=Crack %20down%20on%20madrassas&st=cse
its quite a big article.
- Posted by Anitha

Anitha and Saf:
quite extensive NY times article. Did you read this old 2001 OBL interview?
http://www.dawn.com/2001/11/10/top1.htm)

HM: Some Western media claim that you are trying to acquire chemical and nuclear weapons. How much truth is there in such reports?
“OSB: I heard the speech of American President Bush yesterday (Oct 7). He was scaring the European countries that Osama wanted to attack with weapons of mass destruction. I wish to declare that if America used chemical or nuclear weapons against us, then we may retort with chemical and nuclear weapons. We have the weapons as deterrent.”

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive
 

Today they were showing a Volleyball game between India and Pakistan on GEO Sports. They can’t hang against the Cuban women volleyball team!

What irks me most is the total population in South Asia, and none of the countries can produce ONE decent Soccer team, private or national, to compete with other soccer clubs or the world! I mean out of millions at least one team of 11 players PLEASE! COME ON!

Plus, why is it we enjoy Badminton in South Asia and can’t seem to hang with the Indonesians or the Malaysians?

No way will I consider Chess, Scrabble or any other board game as a sport! I already have a tough time in calling Golf one! lol.

Posted by Saf | Report as abusive
 

Umair,

I’m glad you’ve understood my POV. We’ve got the talent and resources. We have signs of optimism. Lets not stop there. With that enthusiasm we must analyze realities. We should stop saying ‘Hum yeh hotay thay’ and instead strive for a goal of ‘Hum yeh HAI!’. To achieve that is to look at our country critically and never be satisfied.

We’ve got too many rotten apples to be weeded out. Islamabad, our capital, is now going through an energy shortage. This can’t fly.

A good example of talent but not being used properly is the mayor of Karachi, Mustafa Kamal. Bloody brilliant and a diamond in the rough. BUT, he’s still part of MQM, meaning he has to kiss up to Altaf ‘bhai’ and he is still boss. It means our diamond’s shine is being blocked by the rotten leadership and criminal activities of his political organization’s members. This is true for our government, army, political parties and business organizations throughout Pakistan.

My doctor advised me not to read the newspapers because of my BP, but I can’t help it! And today’s DAWN picture and caption had me boil up. It was about SWAT and a sign infront of a tailor shop read “No women allowed” in Urdu. Out of all the regions I’m upset at most is our soldiers in SWAT. Too many reports of them watching idly by which raises alot of questions. These must be answered.

This is why your enthusiasm irked me. It gave an image of delusion, and that this was all you saw, and were satisfied with. I now know that you know it is not the case and you are just optimistic. That’s good. BUT we must keep demanding high standards and accept criticism for coming short.

Posted by Saf | Report as abusive
 

Thanks for the link, Anitha. I read only the first page as I have to sign up to be a NY times member, of which I’ll do later and fill out with bugmenot.com.

Just a quick observation. The author is assuming the Pakistan army didn’t know of the ‘security breach’ of Abdul Qadeer Khan’s nuclear sharing. The truth is, the army knew about it, and he was put under house arrest for a few years without trial (notice the same trend with the LeT leader). Remember they touted him as a hero after the detonation stand off with India. Even then his smuggling operations were an open secret. This was no rogue ISI agent, he had state approval.

Posted by Saf | Report as abusive
 

It’s heartening to see that we fellows are finally discussing Sports instead of Jehads and Wars. Well, there is no reason to beleive that two nations with such a strong population can not achieve anything in this world. Who knows where we would have been together working on fronts that really matter like Science, Democracy and above all Economy. And yes, for that sake I would like to mention two latest news items from India:

1) India’s per capita income doubled in last 7 years. The figure may not be very impressive but sure is a good step forward.
2) ISRO plans to land on Moon by 2025. This day would be the happiest day of my life.

I beleive days will come soon when we will have days to think on issues like this and not like terror.

Posted by Aaruni Upadhyay | Report as abusive
 

“Come on how can Pakistan give away dawood when his turnover is around 120 Crores.”
@ Blogger

I am not sure of the accuracy of this figure but if seriously if it’s this then seriously Dawood is having free meals in Pakistan.
120 crore, is that all Pakistan protects him for?? :)

Posted by Aaruni Upadhyay | Report as abusive
 

Dawn is one of the saner voices in Pakistan. In today’s opinion column ‘The worst of times By Shahid Javed Burki’ analyzes where the country’s economy went wrong .The article says, “Ziaul Haq went on to destroy the few political and economic institutions the country was left with. He disfigured the constitution to establish an all-powerful presidency within a parliamentary framework. The inherent tension in this approach could not be reconciled. The most ill-advised move by the religiously inclined military leader was to impose on the country a version of Islam that was foreign to it. His move in that direction, unfortunately, had the support of the United States which wanted jihadis for its mission to expel the Soviet Union from Afghanistan.”

An another article by Anees Jillani takes on the stance taken by Pakistan that it is also a country affected by terrorism and that will respond only reluctantly “Nobody can dispute the government’s assertion that terrorism is as much a problem for Pakistan as for any other country. This is, however, only part of the problem. The question is what is the state doing to curb terrorism? The terrorists may be closing schools in Swat, and directing the locals to grow beards, and ordering all shops selling CDs to close their businesses.
But this is our internal problem, and if we choose to keep mum about it, it is our own choice. However, when the same terrorists start intruding into the territory of our neighbouring countries, then it no longer remains a domestic problem, and this is what the international community has been trying to explain to our rulers.”

Posted by mitchell | Report as abusive
 
 

Aruni,
Dawood is having free meals in Pakistan with some drugs plus nice models plus full security :P

Posted by Blogger | Report as abusive
 

PK,
Get Flight tickets at a rate as low as Railways” :-)
–Lallusim :P

Posted by Blogger | Report as abusive
 

Saf, how do you say A.Q Khan proliferated with the state approval ?? is it because he openly told in media that Musharaff directed him to do so ?? Remember A.Q khan is someone who stole the design blue prints from Netherlands to build plants in pakistan..he was caught and was in prison in India for years..he has been reported to have done meetings with Bin laden in afghanistan..in my view A.Q Khan is not someone who can be believedf or what he states.

However you could be right..because there is simply no investigation allowed by pakistan on this matter by both musharaf or Zardari and he is kept under house arrest just to keep him away from media.

Posted by Anitha | Report as abusive
 

Kashmir issue should be resolved ASAP. It is very dangerous if we ignore this very important issue.

 

Guys,
Lot has been written about ISI, Pak Army and its role in promoting terrorism against India . Let’s go to the history a few years back , in 1947 , Pakistan was formed after carving our muslim dominated areas of India, which included East Pakistan carved out Bengal , and a part of present Tripura . In 1971, following massive blood shed and oppression by marauding Pakistan Army East Pakistan seceded from Pakistan to form Bangladesh , again an islamic country . The creation of Bangladesh , clearly raises so many unpleasant questions about very principals on which Pakistan was formed ?. Pakistan Army and ruling elite is not able to fathom this fact. After demise of Jinna, Pakistan has been under dictatorial army regimes , every single dictator ruling Pakistan had one simple agenda to teach India , a land of infidels and kafirs a lesson , all the resources and foreign aid was diverted to strengthen Pak Army , as a result economic development was neglected , religious and jehadi elements were given prominence . Gen Zia al haque, in his bid to please his masters in US and Saudi to help them drive out Soviets from Afghanistan, he created a new brand of militant islamic group which was alien to Pakistan and this part of world . After Afghanistan was liberated, these militants were after extracting price for their services. Pak Army in collusion with ISI has been extending all the material and logistic support to these terrorists to help them in implementing their acts of terror. Post 1971, Indo-pak war, and also subsequent to liberation of Bangladesh, Pak Army was totally disillusioned, they had been all along projecting the might of Pak Army to the people of Pakistan, but despite covert support from US and Saudi, they had to face humiliating defeat against Indian Army ,their myth was exposed . Pak Army and ISI, in post 1971 war, they started cultivating Sikhs in Punjab, with the idea of splitting India and making Punjab a separate country, they failed in their misadventure . Pak Army and ISI started hobnobbing Kashmiris to promote militancy, they lodged a low cost war to bleed India , Kashmir terrorists were given new name “Freedom Fighters ” , in last 10 years, 70000 lives lost , still Pak Army and ISI failed to achieve desired result. Suddenly , they changed their strategy , they found a new collaborator Dawood Ibrahim, a notorious drug smuggler , extortionist ,under world don of Mumbai, and his drug running ring and extortionist racket spread in different part of India, came handy to the Pak Army and ISI , a series of terrorist actions were launched against India, 1993 Mumbai bomb blast , in which more 2000 lives lost, this was a great success for this trio of Pak Army , ISI and Dawood. After post 9/11, where FBI found direct evidence linking Dawood hawala racket and perpetrators of 9/11, US pressurised UAE govt to extradite Dawood to US, Dawood fled Dubai and now living under ISI shelter. 26/11 , all evidences point out in the direction of ISI, Pak Army and Dawood, in fact Russian intelligence in a report has clearly stated that Dawood’s drug racket has provided the logistic support to the terorrist of 26/11. despite reports in Pak media, that Kasab is Pakistani , Pakistani Govt is in constant state of denial. Why Pakistan is doing this, what is the objective ? What do they want to achieve ?

Many commentators have made attempts to draw similarity between Babri Masjid demolition and terrorists in Pakistan , this was indeed the most heinous act in the Indian history carried out by Indians but this act was done by Indians in the territory of India. Indians did not go to Pakistan or any third country to commit this act , and hence the attempt to draw the similarities in not tenable . 26/11 was indeed most condemnable act perpetrated by people of Pakistani origin, now the question is whether Pak Govt was involved or not and whether Pakistanis are capable of taking any action against perpetrators of Mumbai terror attack.

Posted by Manish | Report as abusive
 

Saf

The Pakistani Army Est. has a Grand Plan! Sujat Pasha is a smart operator & knows exactly what soundbytes to give to the western media.(but Kyani is as deadly as Obama, lets see what fructifies in the long run, Holbrooke will spell disaster in the Indian sub-continent is a surety,the sub-continent is the ultimate looser, whose loss is more-time will tell)
M15 is a Double Agent, right now they trying to undermine America in Afghanistan & are selling the idea of a Power sharing between Taliban & Karzai to all parties, Pakistan , NATO, Taliban…but America is yet not biting the bait.

Posted by Anup | Report as abusive
 

Umair
India’s progress is an entirely different subject…not anyways linked or subject to Pakistan, it neither contributes nor affects it’s progress. Frankly the ISI is of nothing more than of nuisance value to India…
The appointment of Holbrooke as a sp. Envoy, answers the remaining part of your post..

Posted by Anup | Report as abusive
 

Anup, As you said the power sharing between karzai and Taliban could also be in the interest of Obama..I see the reason for chosing Holbrooke (several times Nobel peace prize nominated person) is to indulge Taliban in to talks rather than continuing the never ending fight there..and make a safe peacfull exit for US and Nato troops from the region. Obama might very well choose to just put CIA to work to catch Osama rather than having troops fighting there with no results but is costly.

If this is the case.then as you said Holbrooke is a disaster in the long run..As taliban after sometime not only will retake all afghanistan but is succesfully operating in parts of pakistan also.
And I also think the key to prevent sucha disaster lies in teh hands of pakistan..it can be prevented only if pakistan makes up mind to truely fight and eliminate the self created jehadi cult operating in pakistan before Holbrooke progessess to broker between US and Taliban.

Posted by Anitha | Report as abusive
 

Anitha

—Cold War ends – Soviet Union neutralized & torn apart- mission accomplished- America abandons Central Asia – thirsts for new ‘enemy’ – secretly instigates Sadam to invade Kuwait – & then the rest follows – Oil.
Meanwhile Pakistani Army gets ambitious – clandestinely creates Taliban – humors Osama for Saudi funding – asserts itself as an Islamic nuclear force – fancies it’s chances of becoming a Global Power by playing the Islamic card & establishing itself as a modern Caliphate – plans to increase it’s influence in the recently formed muslim states out of USSR – 9/11 takes place – Taliban is surely not involved – Osama is projected, not necessarily directly involved, some funding & maybe in the loop, but the brain is a hogwash- American Intelligence whips xenophobic hysteria – ‘new enemy’ – not a second thought – attacks Afghanistan – 8 long years, still ‘hunting’ Osama – who ironically is not in Afghanistan but in an area of less than 7000 sq.kms, with a presence of hundred thousand Pakistani soldiers – the whole gameplan is to plug the Gateway to Asia. Do not see wh they’ll want to leave once having established base…NATO either plays the game or pays for the game…either way they loose…no choice. After the holocaust , Holbrooke will again be nominated for a Nobel price, for which a Gandhi was not an eligible candidate…

Posted by Anup | Report as abusive
 

Anitha,

Another good article to read is:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/23/world/ asia/23pstan.html?_r=2&hp&oref=slogin

You can’t take the accuracy of all Western reports as there’s stuff that’s loose. Like in the NY Times on Gilani waiting till ISI clears and strikes a Madrassa so he can go and tell the US at the great accomplishment. This would be unlikely considering how an embarrassing moment had unfolded for him trying to get the ISI under the Interior Ministry which was vehemently rejected by the army. They’re not on the same page.

As the NY Times article you posted and online articles suggest, there’s WAAAYYY too many secrets about AQ Khan and talk about implicating other individuals around the world that hasn’t been disclosed. Just reading AQ Khan’s Wiki page confuses you.

AQ Khan meeting Laden is unlikely considering his dealings were purely for nuclear advancement and he had ties with Iraq. This is probably more fiction and hype as there were already too many personal contacts such as Hamid Gul that would waste an asset such as AQ Khan in Afghanistan.

The reason I suggest AQ Khan’s activities were known had to do with particular incidents in the 80′s. As you know there’s too many loose lips on Pakistan’s side, unfortunately you have to decipher it as fact or fiction as there’s no reliable source, but too many incidents and talks between engineers and army fellows on the capability of creating a nuke had surfaced.

It is true as you suggested, however, that an investigation is the only way to separate truth from fiction.

Posted by Saf | Report as abusive
 

Anup,

It sounds that there’s too many twisted conspiracies. Such as MI-5 being a double agent and working against the States. That’s an opinion, not a fact and not very likely. However this is not always the case. Simply put, except for Chechnya, Pakistan’s interest in the independent post-USSR states, except Afghanistan, disappeared as well. The controlling Asia idea is too impractical and ambitious even for them.

Remember Pakistan in the 80′s was following 2 ideologies. Undermine India’s interests because of their paranoia and resort to extreme measures; and being a Muslim superpower (the Saudi Wahabi kind). However as you’ve seen with the country, everything needs good management.

India didn’t have interest or couldn’t get their foot in the door with the new ex-Russian states, hence Pakistan didn’t do the same. If Pakistan was looking out for its own interest they probably have been more receptive with trade with them (which was only realized under Musharraf with the Gawadar Port). But they didn’t. So where did they keep their eye on? Afghanistan. Why? Because of India’s past trade and back door access to Balouchistan.

So why did Pak support the Taliban and not the Northern Alliance? Two reasons. Many Northern Alliance members were still historically friendly with India and not so with Pakistan AND N.Alliance were made up of minority ethnicities and Shia sects. The Taliban were mostly Pashtun and endorsed a Saudi extreme Wahabi Sunni outlook.

And I don’t think Holbrooke is going to hurt India much. Pakistan’s stability does matter to India, unlike what you mentioned to Umair. If it was such a nuisance there wouldn’t be so many deaths and separation movements which all do undermine progress. I do not believe Holbrooke will impede India’s development across borders.

However I would like to remind everyone RAW did indeed play spy games too in Balochistan and in Karachi. However it is unclear what role was played in the mid to late 90′s, and what direction RAW took, as it was found out that sectarian violence were funded from MidEast NOT India. It is likely RAW’s organizational goals of tit for tat changed, which is great, but no one knows for what reasons. This also coincided with India’s development.

Like I said, you have a right to mistrust Pasha, but I honestly think the organization has chosen to go a different direction. Currently the US is considering military action in Pakistan, though its not clear whether its going to be at the ground with or without Pakistani troops, or drone attacks. We’ll see. But the situation is SWAT is dire and Quetta, another major city, is silently transforming.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/78 66781.stm

Posted by Saf | Report as abusive
 

Anup,

Gandhi certainly did not will the Nobel Peace Prize even though over the last 60 years his techniques epitomize what to do to win such a prize. However, when you consider that the great Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr used Gandhi’s techniques and DID win the Nobel Peace Prize, then that makes Gandhi even great.

Posted by bulletfish | Report as abusive
 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/78 69697.stm

Anup,

I take everything back. Its still the same! See link…lovely!

Posted by Saf | Report as abusive
 

Many of the people here accuse RAW of proxy war in Baloch and Sindh. I had googled a lot of times still I can’t a neutral article on the supposed RAW’s involvement in destabilizing Pakistan. Of course there are many Pakistani articles,but we can’t believe them,most of them talk garbage-like ‘Pakistan will teach India a lesson like they did in 1965′???!!!!! People who doesn’t know the causes of the 1965 war write blogs with flawed version of history. They remind me of Zaid Hamid.

Posted by mitchell | Report as abusive
 

Mitchell,

I fully agree with your views about RAW, when RAW can not protect us , how do you expect them to carry out sabotage in Pakistan ? You must have seen in the news , that one of the senior RAW officer, has been caught taking bribe of Rs 100000 (USD 2000) , RAW incidentally is considered in India as one of the most corrupt and ineffective organisation, only used to serve the political purposes of the ruling party in India . RAW was originally created by former prime minister Indira Gandhi to keep a watch on opposition politicians, and RAW is still maintaining its tradition to serve its political masters.
As regarding 1965 war, we in India are always told that this war was thrusted upon us by Pakistan and Pakistan suffered humiliating defeat , Indian forces reached very close to Lahore . Can you please tell me your perception about this war ? I would like to hear independent view .

Posted by Manish | Report as abusive
 

Saf
Britain is reportedly in secret talks with the Taliban in an attempt to instill peace in the war-torn Afghanistan. British secret service (M16) agents have held discussions with senior insurgents in Afghanistan on several occasions in the recent past, The Daily Telegraph of London reported on December 26. The disclosure came only a fortnight after Prime Minister Gordon Brown told the House of Commons. “We will not enter into any negotiations with these people. According to the daily, M16’s meetings with the Taliban took place up to half-a-dozen times at houses on the outskirts of Laskah Gah and at villages in the Upper Geresk valley, to the north-east of Helmand’s main town. To maintain the stance that Afghan President Hamid Karzai’s Government was leading the negotiations, “the clandestine meetings took place in the presence of Afghan officials.”
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnew s/asia/afghanistan/3179534/Afghan-presid ent-offers-Taliban-a-role-in-governing-c ountry.html
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/ politics/karzai-to-brief-pm-on-secret-ta liban-talks-1015831.html

Posted by Anup | Report as abusive
 

Saf

—You bet RAW is not aware of these developments, lol,
–IK Gujral the PM of India in ’96, dismantled RAW & following govts. didn’t do much to revive it, so before the mid nienties, yes,India is clandestinely supporting the Balochi movement specially after the massacre of the last of their tribal chief, as it is, Pakistani Army has virtually sold Baluchistan to the Chinese, – Gwadar Port, natural resources – lock, stock & barrel, as they say…

Posted by Anup | Report as abusive
 

bulletfish

—Are you equating Holbrooke with the great Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr?
Richard Charles Albert Holbrooke- A key player in government’s decision-making as the conflict in Vietnam escalated, Key advisor to propagate the war in Iraq & Afghanistan, East Timor controversy, Karadži? controversy, the Balkanisation etc.

Posted by Anup | Report as abusive
 

Indians need to learn that Pakistan is owned by …..PAKISTANIS. Always has been and always will be.

Holbrooke should push India to conduct a referendum in Kashmir on what the Kashmiris want, that will solve the problem once and for all. Otherwise if Holbrooke simply targets Pakistan, he will not succeed.

 

“Indians need to learn that Pakistan is owned by …..PAKISTANIS. Always has been and always will be.”

- Except for western parts which are now owned by Taliban and easterparts which are now owned by non-state actors and North owned by china.

Posted by Anitha | Report as abusive
 

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