Pakistan: Now or Never?
Perspectives on Pakistan
Musharraf planning to visit India
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Former President Pervez Musharraf was always one for the grand gesture. So it should come as no surprise that after a period of relative obscurity following his resignation in August last year, he will visit India as part of a series of lectures he plans to give worldwide.
In an interview with the BBC, Musharraf, who has just returned from a trip to the United States, said he was enjoying his retirement and had been invited to give lectures on Pakistan and the South Asian region around the world. “He said the first invitation he had accepted was from India, where he expected to speak at a conference in Delhi next month,” the BBC said.
“I love this life. I am relaxed and satisfied. And I am enjoying my lecture tours,” he told Pakistan’s Dawn newspaper. “Next month I am going to India for the same purpose. Let’s counter the Indians on their own home ground.”
India always had a rather ambiguous attitude to the Delhi-born former general. After blaming him for the 1999 Kargil war, it later began to see him as a man with whom it could make peace and it was under Musharraf that a formal India-Pakistan peace process was opened in 2004. By the time he resigned, as I noted in the post I wrote at the time , India was fretting that his departure could unleash tensions if it created a vacuum which could be exploited by Islamist militants.
So it will be interesting to see the kind of reception he is given in the sour atmosphere between India and Pakistan following last year’s Mumbai attacks. Interesting too to ask whether the worries expressed by Indian analysts about a rise in tension proved prescient, or if it was simply an accident of timing that the Mumbai attacks — which according to media reports could have taken up to a year to plan — happened just months after he quit.
(Reuters file photo of former president Pervez Musharraf)
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@Ali
Pakistan will vanish into the pages of History its days are numbered.
The Pakistani nukes will be confiscated. The CIA and India will buy the Paks in power. Corrupt societies produce corrupt individuals.
It is time for the IMF to revoke all its loans. Time for all countries to break off all diplomatic ties with India.
The UN member countries need to stage a massive invasion force of 500,000 troops and disarm Pakistan by force.
Pakistani’s talk a big game, let’s see what you will do without your nukes. Either way, if you guys use one on India, Pakistan will be a large black scratch on this earth.
Why don’t you guys just save the trouble and hand over the nukes to the U.S.
Overnight, this will elevate Pakistan’s status into a truly peaceful country.
Then the terrorist infrastructure should be dismantled.
@Ali,
By the way Afghanistan can have their Pashtun land back from Pakistan. The Pashtuns are tired of being repressed by the Punjabis in Islamabad.
The 500,000 strong force should occupy Pakistan and destroy the terrorist infrastructure, just like in Iraq.
Except this time, the “Weapons of Mass Deception” in Pakistan will be rooted out and eliminated.
Ali
— Atthar pe patthar, patthar pe tota
Teri Maa Ko thoka, tu kyon rotaa
Rajeev
“or such similarity as the basis for stronger ties,”
—This is exactly the worst nightmare of the ruling class of Pakistan- Pakistan even after six decades is undergoing identity crisis & any such ‘valid’ development will threaten it’s very existence rendering it ‘invalid’.
anup sun teri maa no kothay da laann!!
Kothay tay kohta, kothay tay soi
teri maa ni pudi aur piu di toi!!
Yo sewage RAT get back in your filthy hole you idiotic
untouchable indian lol
How do you blow up an indian – Press the RED button lol
Pardesi wrote:
…we share the same language culture music and sports. What more do any two countries need to be good friends. We must protect our neighborhood and not allow outsiders to interfere in our affairs….
We do not share same language, infact India itself has many languages. So obviously different music and sports.
Trust is required for 2 countries to be a good friends, unfortunately we cannot even call Pakistan an enemy.
First protect our homes then neighborhood. We’re not a fairy tale Spiderman for neighborhood.
How do you blow up Pakistani
– Hide the moon after Ramadan
punajbiputar what happend to your dream of khalistan?
Siraf do goli khai aur pagri zameen par rakh thi…thats your sikh seena chori mera laan. Indian cowards even did not spare in your holiest shrine killed you one by one like rats as they are…
Teri maa thay puday which chali gai sikh azadi????
Thats why I call the idiots incompotent….
All you lot can do make a bollywood movie to show what you good at but inrealiity well we all know the single pasli commnadoes in Mumbai ha ha ah fcking hopless they were lying under buses lol. Honestly makes me laugh and you want the world to see you as mini superpower in your dreams….
That was a weak attempt, blowing paki got to do with moon ??? weak thinking blogger when did you finish your job in call center hope you used your own beloved name that your mama gave you????lol
The biggest betrayer to the citizens of Pakistan….and to his leaders the Indians can do one good thing to cool down the tension and to restart the process of confidence building and good neighbourly relations.
Catch Musharaaff take him to Gateway of India remove his pants and undies and let everyone spank him for Rs one per shot and the money collected should be sent to Pakistan to feed its people and to improve its economic condition.
Chand ko chupado saale bhooke mar jayenge, dund dund ke thag jaaoge, ab tum ko blow up kya karna khud hi maare jaoge.
Durson ki Ma pe itna gAli dete ho saale, apne Ma se jake pucho ‘Ma’ kya hoti hai, aur ‘Ma’ ko thokna kya hota hai.
Kyun na ho tere Mohammad ne bhi kitne ‘Maon’ ka kya kuch nahin kiya….
Jaise teri kudha vaise unke bande.
“or such similarity as the basis for stronger ties,”
—This is exactly the worst nightmare of the ruling class of Pakistan- Pakistan even after six decades is undergoing identity crisis & any such ‘valid’ development will threaten it’s very existence rendering it ‘invalid’.
- Posted by Anup”"”
—Anup, but I am NOT suggesting “culture and language” as the basis to merge India/Pakistan, we are done with that since much before 1947, but formally in 1947.
The rantings and ravings on this website could serve well as a comedy act!
No wonder the Kashmir dispute has never been solved. But it points out that only Indians and Pakistanis can volley like this.
@Rajeev
“Just to be fair, I want to jump in and say that Pakistani/Tamil dissimilarity in culture and language is as much as that between a Himachli or UPite with a Tamil. Do not forget more than one Pakistan full of Muslims in India. In pressing the argument for such similarity as the basis for stronger ties, this is quite valid.”
That is exactly my point. India is so diverse than you cannot compare the whole of India with another entity.
There are 28 states in the Union of India. Take a % of how many states have some similarity with Pakistan. And you will get the idea.
Your second point of equating Paki Muslims with indian muslims is also very weak. If a benagli muslim was similar to a Paki punjabi muslim then why Bangladesh was formed? Forget about Pakistan even a Bihari muslim does not share much similarity with a Bengali or a Malyali Muslim.
Is forcing a similarity yielding India anything? NO. India is still a target of Paki hatred and cross border terrorism. And Why we need to enforce a similarity to have good ties? Similarity is neither a necessary nor sufficient condition to have good ties. We still have good ties with Russia and nothing much similar to her
Guys,
Wish this guy to visit India than Mushy
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_qu ery=zahid+hamid&search_type=
Enjoy the show
@ Blogger
Yes, Zaid Hamid is a Nut case. I watched his video to know what goes inside a terrorist sympathizer Paki’s brain.
Unfortunately its all garbage and evil. He seems to have a lot of admirers on net and Ali and his cahoots use lot of his bogus statistics to further their points.
Ex: India is rid by 50 separatist movements. And then they count Naxal movement in this count and map it in Bihar, Chattisgarh, MP, AP and MH. These stupid do not even know that Naxal movement is not a separatist movement
The rantings and ravings on this website could serve well as a comedy act!
No wonder the Kashmir dispute has never been solved. But it points out that only Indians and Pakistanis can volley like this.
- Posted by Alethia
Alethia, you should not target a nation like this since your country –US- isso vulnerable in each and every respect. Correct me if I am wrong. The difference perhaps could be the due to the ignorance in general of your country people vs here who are into the issues. Americans think US is world—so Superbowl winner is called world champion!.You need to have some knowledge to “volley” .Agreed this current disussion has less substance. But you visiting India and Pak few times will not tell allow you to know what’s going on here. I have heard the corridor talk from Americans—kind of woken up in ignorance and still not much different. Your govt does all the volleying on your country’s behalf. Throwing nuclear bombs on nation etc. Talking about “volleying”, in the evening of 9/11, I was shocked to see that students in US are as happy as on 9/10—saw them stoned and drunk—sad sight that was. Dance Clubs still going. Alethia do no pass judgments. This is global problem except you play the game on the road-no home game except on 9/11 forced on you.
Alethia:
correction:
I have heard the corridor talk from Americans after 9/11—kind of woken up in ignorance and still not much different.
chirkut:
Absolutely, it was very funny to watch Analysis in Action and with Anchor
ex: Indian Zionist lol
– Everyone duck down an Alethic US Drone…. on Kashmir dispute
Chirkut
I hear you loud and clear. I am not suggesting merger!. Ties are at different levels and may not apply everywhere-Russia was geopolitical need of that time. Assuming that the whole of India was not pro-Russia at that time, but still it worked. But what’s the reason for a Punjabi and Tamil be together –Indian?, they do find something common to work. Nothing is black and white. You seem to be suggesting that only if whole of India has similarity with whole of Pak, there can be such efforts. I say Statesmanship can use these factors for advantage at the right time-that is not now. I know the realities on the ground.
chirkut:
Absolutely, it was very funny to watch Analysis in Action and with Anchor
ex: Indian Zionist lol
- Posted by Blogger
That guy needs to be in house arrest for Paki interest, if they see it that way. he is hilarious.
Blogger:
You may chuckle that I am a drone on the Kashmir dispute, but wait until you see Richard Holbrooke in action. He can do rings around any seasoned diplomat…
Some time back a Paki blogger posted about new graves found of civilian Kashmiris caught in between the counter-terrorism operations. Since then I was trying to find out some data on Pak’s NWFP operatioin.
Well here is the data
“Approximately 12,000 civilians and 200 security forces have died in Pakistani Army operations against Mehsud and his allies in Swat and Bajaur, while killing only 75 “neo-Taliban” in the process”
http://www.daily.pk/pakistan/pakistannew s/9369-uspakistan-showdownthrowdown-july 12.html
This figure is equally grim. But i will not point fingers at Pakistan coz i understand that counter-terrorism is a dirty job. And no matter how hard anyone tries, the civilian causalities are the highest. We can only try to minimize it but only with limited success.
Pakistan having been formed based on a religious identity, sees everything outside of it from the same perspective – it sees India as a Hindu nation. It sees the Western world as a Christian entity. This is the core of the problem. There is nothing inside Pakistan to remove this myopic mind set. That India has more Muslims than Pakistan does not matter as a result. India is way too diverse to be termed as belonging to any specific religious, ethnic, linguistic, racial or class group. It sure is dominated by a group depending upon the perspective – Hindu if it is a religious perspective, Hindi speaking people if seen from a linguistic perspective, Northern Indian “aryans” if seen from a racial perspective and so on. If you look at the Pakistani system, there has never been any attempt made to understand this diversity of India. Doing so would have brought more understanding and tolerance towards Indians. But their leaders and establishment wanted quick gains to power and took the opposite path which clubs all of India as a Hindu nation trying to destroy Pakistan at all times and working out ways to achieve that end. Musharraf comes from this school of indoctrination. He hates India passionately and would love to try Pakistan’s nuclear weapons on India if he has a choice. His sudden switch as an ally on the war of terrorism was due to one and only one reason. If he did not, India was ready to work with the US and Pakistan’s evil plans in Afghanistan and global terrorism would have been exposed. I do admire his cleverness and quick decision making capability. But for the general, Pakistan would have committed more blunders and would have collapsed by now. Pakistanis have a lot to thank the general. He did become a thorn in the flesh for India. But that is part of history.
Rajeev
—I am advocating any mergers, very much content having done away with them, what i am pointing out is that this is a paranoia of the elite ruling class of Pakistan…
“very much content having done away with them, what i am pointing out is that this is a paranoia of the elite ruling class of Pakistan…”
- Posted by Anup
—-Anup,
Got you. I agree with that.
On the article, Mushy is “enjoying his retirement and had been invited to give lectures on Pakistan and the South Asian region around the world” and “the first invitation he had accepted was from India”. I am just finding it funny how much academic value does his visit carry. Retired ir not he is the same guy who did Kargill. More specifically can he improve Indo-Pak relations? I cam imagine lots of audience for sure and lots of protests murdabad etc.
We do not need any gospel from this man . He should not be allowed to visit our country – let him lecture to his own countrymen . They need his advise, pretty badly , looking at the state of affairs.
This man, the villain of Kargil, a dictator must not be given visa. He has got no business here. If the Indian govt has got any ‘ability to think’ ( which it lacks drastically), it should not allow this man to ever visit India again.
SALUTE TO MUSHRAFF, SALUTE TO PAKISTAN, PAKISTAN IS ALWAYS A WINNER.
…Richard Holbrooke in action. He can do rings around any seasoned diplomat…
–Of course dear, We’re all waiting… India is a very patient country, whilst no one dare to mess around with us especially on Kashmir. 60 years isn’t enough, and btw Holbrooke was alive since then isn’t it?
Rajeev,
..More specifically can he improve Indo-Pak relations..
Naah, never will do that, i’d rather say he would act as another informal informer to ISI?
have a see
http://www.india-today.com/kargil/audio. html
No East No West Musharraf is the Best.
Pervez Musharraf was an open minded & secular man…he did more to bring Pakistan towards peace with our neighbour than any other leader has ever done.
“…see Richard Holbrooke in action. He can do rings around any seasoned diplomat…”
—True.Holbrooke, the official hangman of USA has been designated to carry on with the death sentence of pakistan, pity poor pakis…
Anup wrote:
“—True.Holbrooke, the official hangman of USA has been designated to carry on with the death sentence of pakistan, pity poor pakis…”
Come on Anup, give yourself a rest please. Pakis are doing pretty well, dont worry. Just take care of yourself.
Pakistan as a country has sponsored more terrorism than any other country. It is an irony it has not yet been declared a state sponsor of terrorism.
As radical Islam prospers not only in the FATA but in Pakistan proper, and as the Pakistani ISI maintains its working relationships with Jihadi organizations the likes of the Taliban and al Qaeda, the continued declaration by Pakistan’s president and Musharaff that his nation remains allied with the United States and the remaining Coalition of the Willing nations must be questioned in the most serious of ways.
With no progress being made by the Pakistani government in the fight against radical Islamist ideology and jihad, but for the occasional arrest of mid-level terrorists, the Obama Administration must give credence to the reality that the government of Pakistan is a disingenuous partner in the conflict against radical Islamist aggression.
To continue funding their alleged efforts in the conflict against radical Islamist aggression is to throw good money after bad. In this economic climate the United States can ill-afford to fund jihadi enablers.
Milind writes: “This man, the villain of Kargil, a dictator must not be given visa. He has got no business here. If the Indian govt has got any ‘ability to think’ ( which it lacks drastically), it should not allow this man to ever visit India again.”
Even Ahmedinijad (sic) was allowed to visit the US and give his view points. That is the sign of a free society that is built on democratic principles. India should allow Musharraf to come in on a valid visa and give his discourses. That will do two things – show that India is not a closed society like others. And everyone is entitled to his views. It will also show that India gives a fair chance even to a man who triggered a war with India. Since he lost that war, it is all right. Let him come in and realize how a free society is like. All his life he has spent in uniform and has no idea what freedom of speech is and what freedom is. Let him have a chance. He should be grilled by the Indian media for his actions and let us see how he defends himself. If he can be made to realize that India is not so bad after all as he has imagined, may be he can return home and tell his folks to change their minds. Everything must be tried for a long term solution instead of shutting out all options.
Qasim writes: “Pervez Musharraf was an open minded & secular man…he did more to bring Pakistan towards peace with our neighbour than any other leader has ever done.”
Mr. Qasim, I think you are very ignorant. Mr. Musharraf if the architect of the Kargill war in 1999. When the Indian Prime Minister went to Lahore and worked with Nawaz Sharif on peace with Pakistan, Mr. Musharraf sent in Pakistani army regulars mixed in with war hardened Afghan Mujahideen (none had anything to do with Kashmir) and launched the offensive inside internationally recognized line of control on the Indian side. He did not even inform his Prime Minister of what he had done. He expected the conflict to turn into a full scale war and was prepared to use nuclear weapons. He was itching to go at India.
When Clinton made Pakistan retreat in shame, Musharraf forcibly ejected a democratically elected Prime Minister (no matter how corrupt he was) and crowned himself as the illegitimate ruler of Pakistan. His eyes were only focussed on India and his plans got derailed when Osama Bin Laden made other plans. Musharraf was caught with his pants down when the Americans knocked on his door. He had to make a quick retreat from what he was doing and switch sides immediately. Do not think that we are that ignorant. There was a massive airlift of Pakistani military personnel from inside Afghanistan during the air raids against the Taliban, as a part of the deal Musharraf had made with the Americans. A part of ISI building suddenly caught fire and a lot was destroyed (read as evidence of Pakistan’s neck deep involvement with Taliban, Al Qaeda and global terrorism).
The general simply manipulated everything to survive for ten years by dodging every attempt to get to the core of the problem. Army generals love to have as many conflicts as possible in order to perpetuate their hold on power. He did not do anything for peace. Peace (albeit a temporary one) happened by the ouster of Taliban and Al Qaeda from Afghanistan and the American presence in the neighborhood. He could not pursue his favorite past time of taunting India since the Americans twisted his head to look Westwards.
He is a clever guy. I agree with that. But he did nothing towards peace in the region. If he had had his way, the sub-continent would have been a nuclear waste land a decade ago. It was his legacy that Pakistan is being eaten up slowly by the Taliban. Having no other place to go, the Taliban is turning eastwards and has started spreading inside Pakistan. Musharraf is only good at answering any questions thrown at him. Beyond that, he sowed the seeds of long term disaster that will bring down Pakistan. One day you will realize what I am saying.
India has to do nothing. It needs to focus on its foundations as the world economy is faltering and hang in there by whatever means. It will take probably a decade for the world to come out of the economic crisis. India needs to continue working on infra structure build up and improve communications further. Just stay put and Pakistan has enough generals who will take it down along the path of self destruction.
Parwaiz Musharraf govt. was better then the present PPP govt.
ALETHIA, ALI AND ALL PAKISTANIS
What do you think of Pak Ambassador to US writing this. Check the website first.
QUOTE: In the original countrys western wing, the effort to create national cohesion between Pakistans disparate ethnic and linguistic groups through religion took on greater significance and its manifestations became more militant. Religious groups, both armed and unarmed, have become gradually more powerful as a result of this alliance between the mosque and the military. Radical and violent manifestations of Islamist ideology, which sometimes appear to threaten Pakistans stability, are in some ways a state project gone wrong. UNQUOTE
By Husain Haqqani, Pakistans US Ambassador http://www.futureofmuslimworld.com/resea rch/pubID.30/pub_detail.asp
Qasim writes: “Pervez Musharraf was an open minded & secular man…he did more to bring Pakistan towards peace with our neighbour than any other leader has ever done.”
If he is such a peace angel, what was kargil ?
He sacked Nawaz Shareef and Justice chaudhry, pretty open minded and secular man he is.
“”"”Pervez Musharraf was an open minded & secular man…he did more to bring Pakistan towards peace with our neighbour than any other leader has ever done.”"”"”
- Posted by Qasim
—open minded about what? secular?–how. Qasim, do not use words randomly.
“”did more to bring Pakistan towards peace with our neighbour than any other leader”"
—-peace by imposing Kargil war? about which Nawaz Sharif, the then PM , had no idea (if his statement is trusted; hard to trust any one of you). Did you see that post?
Pervez Musharraf is the only sane man in Pakistan politics.
Indians, specifically Hindus of India have committed more genocide against other Indians than any other person since Hitler or Saddam.
The ever popular Modi, is the poster boy for Hindu nationalism and revered by Hindu Indians all over.
The Geonocide of Muslims in Gujrat, in Kashmir, in the fire bombing of the the Sumjohta express are factual examples of Hindu India nationalism, that Hindus are soo proud of.
We need to have peace in Kashmir and Afghanistan before the sub-continent can alleviate the poverty stricken 300 million in the Indian subcontinent.
Hope the Obama administration will have an open mind.
Interesting points about Musharaf’s visit to India—to allow or not.
Milind says no, Maurayan says yes to the visit.
—–Thinking more, in the end Mushy will be in India. but his visit is going to be a problem. He’ll use the platform to attack India in an unexpeted way in front of the all the audience. Ahmedinijad’s used the paltform to issue inflammatory statements during his talk in Colombia Univ. Depends on the naure of talk—if you give him 45 min free time, he’ll spit all the filth. If it is debate, the chances to counter his statements are more.
definiely he has advantage and India should be prepared for this.
Senator McCain said this before hmedinijad’s visit: “A man who is directing the maiming and killing of Americans troops should not be given an invitation to speak at an American university”…..”Columbia should not be “rolling out the red carpet for the leader of a terrorist-sponsoring regime.”
–I think same is true for Mushy in India
responses to michelee Michelle Shaheen
“”Pervez Musharraf is the only sane man in Pakistan politics.”"”
—-GOD HELP PAKISTAN IN THAT CASE!
Indians, specifically Hindus of India have committed more genocide against other Indians than any other person since Hitler or Saddam.
——-NO MADAM, PLEASE CHECK PAKISTAN RECORD AGAINST BANGALDESH, MINORITIES IN PAKISTAN, FRONTIER GANDHI’S ARMLESS ARMY ….. SUPPORTING TERRORISMS KILLING HINDUS IN KASHMIR, PUNJAB… WHEN PAKISTANIS KILL THE INNOCENTS, IT IS HUNDRED THOUSANDS. INDIANS ARE NOT SAINTS, BUT HAVE LEARNT TO USE WEAPONS IN SELF-DEFENSE IF YOU NO ENOUGH OF HISTORY (NEUTRAL).
The ever popular Modi, is the poster boy for Hindu nationalism and revered by Hindu Indians all over. The Geonocide of Muslims in Gujrat, in Kashmir, in the fire bombing of the the Sumjohta express are factual examples of Hindu India nationalism, that Hindus are soo proud of.
—-ON THE CONTRARY MAJORITY OF HINDUS CONDEMN SUCH KILLINGS OF INNOCENTS. IGNORANCE IS MORE BLISS, IT IS HARMFUL THESE DAYS.
We need to have peace in Kashmir and Afghanistan before the sub-continent can alleviate the poverty stricken 300 million in the Indian subcontinent.
—-I AGREE HERE.
Hope the Obama administration will have an open mind.
—IGNORANCE IS BLISS AGAIN.
@Bloggers,
Musharaff is a murderer, a deceitful, two-faced lying criminal who was just kicked out of his country and now he is doing international talks to save his reputation and make some money.
If he had of stayed in Pakistan any longer, he would have suffered the same fate as Benazir Bhutto.
This man lies a lot and gets caught in them many times, they are well documented, just google it.
Musharaff deserves no audience and if he does, I hope the smart people of India tear strips and chunks of meat out of his reputation and shame him dearly for his treachery.
Show him no mercy, shame and embarass the mouse.
I’m a french guy living in france i love indian culture.. etc but i ‘ve never seen a country more coward than india. they are ready to let other countries ruining them and they absolutely dont care. one day india wont exist anymore and all indian women will wear islamic dress. its sad i liked this country i used to travel there , such a lovely place with nice people
These days shoe throwing is becoming a fashion. After Bush, now Chinese Premier Wen Jiabao got the same treatment in Britain. See below:
“German student charged for throwing shoe at Chinese premier”
http://uk.reuters.com/article/topNews/id UKTRE5192YR20090210
I think it is Pervez Musharraf’s turn now.
French boy am a Indian living in India, I like Paris so much, it was beautiful with out a single wire or cable in open..but to my dismay i have never seen cowards like french..muslim men in french army disobeyed their commanders orders when they were posted to fight in afghanistan, army is filled with buch of cowards who use religion to escape battle field. Never heard of a incompetent prez like sarkozy who couldn’t act till date to save france from dependency of china..even after chineese have twice boycotted french goods in china..
France couldn’t control backlash from muslims on Jews during gaza war..
Too bad i thought France would be a nice place..