More U.S. troops for Afghanistan

February 20, 2009

President Barack Obama is sending 17,000 more U.S. troops to Afghanistan to fight a growing insurgency, but will they make a difference?

America and its allies have far fewer boots on the ground in Afghanistan than Iraq, although the former is larger, more populous and features more challenging terrain.

As two former U.S. soldiers pointed out in Foreign Policy magazine, military strategists generally believe a successful counter-insurgency strategy requires 20-25 troops for every 1,000 civilians.

This “force ratio” was outlined by Rand Corp military analyst James Quinlivan in an influential study in the 1990s that has become one of the standard works on the subject.

Quinlivan’s paper drew on the British experience in Northern Ireland — as well as their 1950s anti-communist campaign in Malaya — and although the conflict is very different from Afghanistan a comparison of the size of forces is interesting.

At the height  of Northern Ireland’s “Troubles” in the early 1970s, the British Army had around 30,000 troops in the province of 1.6 million people.

There are currently around 68,000 western troops in Afghanistan, a country of 32 million people. Even including the proposed reinforcements and Afghan forces, the “force ratio” in Afghanistan is at best only around a third of what the British deployed in Northern Ireland.

Of course, a simple numbers comparison ignores the fact that Afghanistan’s terrain is much tougher, the fighting there is far more intense and that more than half of Northern Ireland’s population are Protestants who overwhelmingly support British rule.

And finally, despite the number of troops committed, the British Army did not defeat the IRA, struggling to bring security as the conflict dragged on for the three decades.

The role of the British military in Northern Ireland remains deeply controversial. A sympathetic assessment might bet that it “held the line”, preventing a descent into all-out civil war and doing enough to convince its foes that they, too, could not triumph by military means alone. That, in turn, persuaded local politicians there would have to be a negotiated settlement and, after a tortuous peace process, a deal was eventually struck.

Establishing the conditions for a political settlement including at least some of their enemies seems to be the goal of the United States and its allies have accepted is the best outcome on offer in Afghanistan. If so, they will hope it can be achieved faster that in Northern Ireland.

67 comments

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pakistan is the only reason of terror in world

SHARMA–

So the killing of over 70 thousand innocent Kashmiris is justified?

The ill treatment of ALL minorties in India is justified?

The burning of Mosques, Churches is fine and does NOT create any resentment?

Everytime there is bomb blast innocent indian muslims are rounded up and beaten a great advert of indian democracy???

Pakistan has been a victim of terrorism:!

The killing of Benazir Bhutto
Marriot Hotel Bombing
The Inteliigence building in Lahore
Countless sucide bombings on civilians
Pakistan has sacrificed more soldeirs in the war on terror then any other country in the WORLD
Pakistan contributes more troops to UN for peace missions n so on….

Sharma you are hindu fanactic just like ALL the idiotic indian that can NOT see a strong, viable, progressive, open pakistan. People like you give the hardline mullahs a excuse to point fingers n say the kaffirs are our enemies which to some extent you are. Anyone who is agianst Pkaistan is 160million pakis!!!

Sharma go to hell or even better spend your time worshipping your monkey gods that would be bettre use of your time.

Posted by Hussain | Report as abusive

Vinit,
I could not agree more with you. While I believe India has a lot going for it; Pakistan has a lot going from it.

India has:

Slumdog Millionaire at the 2009 Oscars for:
BEST PICTURE
BEST DIRECTOR – Danny Boyle
BEST ADAPTED SCREENPLAY – Simon Beaufoy
BEST CINEMATOGRAPHY
BEST EDITING
BEST ORIGINAL SCORE – A R Rahman
BEST ORIGINAL SONG – Jai Ho
BEST ORIGINAL SONG – O Saya
BEST SOUND EDITING
BEST SOUND MIXING

Pakistan has:

BBC [UK]:
Pakistan funeral bomb ‘kills 25 (20/02/2009)
Anger at Swat journalist killing (19/02/2009)
Pakistan’s evolving sectarian schism (20/02/2009)
Pakistan stares into economic abyss (15/10/2008)
US concerned over Pakistan deal (20/02/2009)
Taleban bring new fear to Peshawar (13/11/2008)
Children in Swat face bleak future (28/01/2009)

The Times [UK]:
Dangerous double game that mirrors Pakistan’s identity crisis (18/02/2009)
Violence still a threat in Swat Valley despite Sharia deal (19/02/2009)
Pragmatism and Appeasement – Pakistan cannot fight extremism while giving in to the militants’ demands (18/02/2009)

NY Times [USA]:
Pakistan and Taliban Appear Near Deal (15/02/2009)
From Pakistan, Taliban Threats Reach New York (16/02/2009)
Pakistan Agrees to Enforce Islamic Law in Violent Region (16/02/2009)
Pakistan Makes a Taliban Truce, Creating a Haven (16/02/2009)

International Herald Tribune (part of NY Times) [USA]:
Pakistani journalist is killed covering rally (19/02/2009)

Guardian [UK]:
Pakistan suicide bomber kills dozens at Shia funeral (20/02/2009)
Peace or appeasement in Pakistan? (18/02/2009)
A risky deal in Swat (17/02/2009)

CNN [USA]:
At least 27 dead in Pakistan suicide bombing (20/09/2009)
Commentary: Pakistan gives in to terrorists (17/02/2009)
Pakistan: 20 dead in drone attack (14/02/2009)
Reports: Kidnapped Polish engineer executed in Pakistan (07/02/2009)
Militants attack Pakistan checkpoint (07/02/2009)

Reuters [international]:
Journalist covering “peace march” in Pakistan killed (19/02/2009)
NATO says Pakistan deal with militants a concern (17/02/2009)
Pakistan State Oil posts H1 net loss 10.5 bln rupees [$131.3 million] (17/02/2009)
Swat a threat to all of us: US envoy (16/02/2009)

Dawn [PAKISTAN]:
Govt dismisses international criticism over sharia deal (20/02/2009)
Textile exports drop creating fear of big layoffs (20/02/2009)
Oil import bill soars by 26 per cent (20/02/2009)
US ‘troubled and confused’ about sharia deal: Holbrooke (20/02/2009)
Justice in Swat? (20/02/2009)

Gulf Times [QATAR]:
Pak journalists protest at killing of colleague (20/02/2009)
Sufi Mohamed urges Taliban to declare peace in Swat (20/02/2009)
Nato voices concern (17/02/2009)
Militants hail Shariah pact (17/02/2009)
Cleric who signed peace accord hates democracy (17/02/2009)
Will Islamabad’sgamble pay off? (17/02/2009)

Saudi Gazette [SAUDI ARABIA]:
Taleban urged for peace in Swat (20/02/2009)
Bomb destroys Pak press club (19/02/2009)
2 schools blown up, 8 rebels killed in Pakistan (19/02/2009)
Pak deal with TSNM high-risk affair (18/02/2009)
Cup organizers told to plan for switch from Pakistan (18/02/2009)
Pak car bomb kills 5, hurts 13: Officials (18/02/2009)

I would love to see a movie made about Pakistan (or a Pakistani) which is made by an outsider (or a Pakistani) that can achieve the same status on meritocracy as Slumdog Millionaire.

Don’t even bother to mention the sycophantic Jinnah (1998). That movie had a terrible distribution and still distributors were afraid due to threats.

Posted by bulletfish | Report as abusive

Hussain,
You and your wretched excuse for a country can go to HELL. You say that Pakistan has been a victim of terrorism yet you are making peace deals with the Taliban in Swat for Sharia law. You contribute MORE terrorism to the world than peace keeping troops.

Killing innocent Kashmiris? Its your glorious Pak army that VIOLATE THE LoC with backing of so-called freedom fighters. You are true hyocrites to winge and whine about drone attackes from acroos the Afghan border yet you lot kill across the LoC. People get caught in the cross fire.

You have pillaged Kashmir. You took away the land, homes and livelihood from the Kashmiri pundits and you have the nerve to say that the Indian Army is committing these acts. Don’t you dare forget that this is the same army that ‘protects’ the Kashmiris from your covert terrorists’ attack at bus stations for their journeys to visit realtives Pakistan-Occupied-Kashmir.

Do you remember what happened in 1971 in East Pakistan? Millions of your own citizens murdered by your own glorious military. I have seen a beautiful photo of a Pakistani Lieutenant General A A K Niazi signing a ‘surrender’ in Dhaka (not a strategic cease fire). He then had to be protected by the Indian soldiers from the new Bangladeshis. He did cry. Over 90,000 Pakistani prisoners of war which was the largest surrender of forces since World War II.

(the information in the above paragraph is irrefutable).

(1) The ill treatment of ALL minorties in India is justified?
(2) The burning of Mosques, Churches is fine and does NOT create any resentment?
(3) Everytime there is bomb blast innocent indian muslims are rounded up and beaten a great advert of indian democracy??

For all 3 points above justice has been served. In India people who do these things ARE caught, tried and punished. Unless they run away to Pakistan to be treated like royalty by the ISI.

I AM A MINORITY INDIAN!!! Parsi, if you must know.

Monkey god is Hanuman, a deity who symbolized a warrior.

Go and kiss Taliban arse I have my call centre job to do.

Posted by bulletfish | Report as abusive

Hussain,

Communal violence in India is sponsored or nurtured by the Government of India. India does not have religious extremist terrorist training camps, organized by its Gov’t and army to destablize others.

Unlike you Hussain and most other muslims in the world, who never refute violence against non-muslims, I will say that those few and recent developments of violence against Christians and Muslims was wrong. It was of a communal nature and not organized by central religious authorities or the government.

I will not tell you to goto hell, as you are already there. You have no honour and you have to defend Pakistan’s shame on a daily basis, your economy is non-existent and your Pakistani begging bowl is on the street for free food from the IMF. Even the Chinese would not give any rice to you. Pakistan should have asked India for money, India would have at least given free rice.

Hussain, as extremist Islam tears your country apart, it will pave the way for other countries to take Pakistani land away and disintegrate it. Your enemy is sitting on your local madrassa, the one you drive by, every day.

As you stick your a** up in the air five or a few times a day, just realize that the guy beside you, may be one day beh**ding you as your country becomes Talibanized.

I promise you, no Monkey God worshipers will ever behead you.

Stew in your dishonor and shame, it is fitting for you.

Pakistan is coming apart, bit by bit.

Posted by Global Watcher | Report as abusive

LOOK AT ALL THE IDIOTS COMING OF THEIR HIDING HOLES!!!!

WOW THATS WAS QUICK RESPONSE!!

(1) The ill treatment of ALL minorties in India is justified?
(2) The burning of Mosques, Churches is fine and does NOT create any resentment?
(3) Everytime there is bomb blast innocent indian muslims are rounded up and beaten a great advert of indian democracy??

For all 3 points above justice has been served. In India people who do these things ARE caught, tried and punished

———————————————————IS THAT WHY WE SEEN TERRORIST MASTERMINDS LIKE BAL THAKRAY N HIS CLUMANIDY WALKING, TALKING, IN THE STREETS OF BOMBAY N SO ON?????????

What hapened to the cowrads general of yours who could not do nothing whilst in army but when retired managed to blow a train with innocent pakistanis???

has he been jailed?

What happened to the cowerads indian terrorist that burned houses, raped indian muslims in gujrat????

fcuk all so go to hell you cowrds hindus who need any excuse to pick on pakistan. Let me tell you we pakis dont care how many oscars you have gained how many western leaders you bow down too. How many sisters you have recruited in the red light distric to please the western men so go to hell!!!

this is your iq level — worship a idol which is made with your hands and the you ask it for help lol….
even better someone with 5 arms, 6 legs, n 7 eyes n i can only guess how manu holes…. our forefathers had the common sense of distinguishing betwen a idol worshipping n ones of god like other abrahmic religions.
So idiots grow up!!!

Posted by hUSSAIN | Report as abusive

Husasin, too bad..its time in pakistan..its Allah hu akbar for taliban and for you its Taliban hu akbar !!
Too bad allah couldn’t save pakistan..start worshipping our monkey god, if not god, India will save you.

Posted by Anitha | Report as abusive

Hussain,

Pakistan is a failed state because of failed people like you. You use words like “hell” and “death” constantly and therefore, this is what you constantly perceive.

You are typical my friend, you act and react violently when the truth stares you in the face, you can’t even stand to look yourself in the eyes in front of the mirror. The typical reaction, when one hates himself, is one like the one you have.

Either a drone or the Taliban will eventually get you, be it on a long stretch of highway, or within your own city. I don’t know what any Hindu ever did to you, your anger and hatred is misplaced my friend.

I won’t tell you to fcuk off, you are already fcuked. What you call Hindu terrorists are not really much more than a few street yellers in Pakistan.

Pakistan has much to be picked on about:

It started three wars with India, it also let AQ Khan sell nuclear secrets to rogue states, it is globally known as the epicentre of Terrorism, no body has anything good to say about Pakistan.

In India we don’t pre-occupy ourselves with Hindu expansionism or Pakistan’s destruction. You guys are more pre-occupied and scared of the boogeyman, that your collective thoughts are bringing about your own destruction. Oh and by the way, you guys are also obsessed with Indian movies, I know you got lots of burnt CD’s, some SRK movies, perhaps?

You are fascinated with India, I believe and fascinated with our Idols. We don’t worship the Idol itself, but what it represents. The Idol presents a focal point to concentrate on your prayers, we are not actually praying to the wood, stone or plastic Idol itself, but what feelings the Image evokes.

Don’t be so threatened by our Idols, if you want some, I can mail some to you in Islamabad, Karachi or Lahore, or even in Dubai, if you want some. I will even send you some burned Bollywood CD’s and Stardust Magazines if you like. Just don’t take any of the IDOLS to Mosque, they may behead you or take your hands and feet off.

You also use the words like cowards, terrorists, bomb blasts, fcuk, rape, idiots, hiding. Usually words used by a person to describe another are usually a manifestation of the person using them. It is true that this is actually how you view yourself. This is Hinduism.

I feel sorry for you, you will never understand Hinduism. You lack the courage to understand anything other than the mind-rape knowledge in your alternate set of Pakistani History books.

You want to talk about minories being ill-treated, well during Parition, Hindus comprised almost 15% of Pakistan, today it is almost 2%. Don’t preach about ill treatment, burning of prayer places and innocent muslims.

You Pakistani’s systematically raped, beat, murdered, genocided, tortured and converted millions of poor hindus after partition.

Then in 1971, the Pak Army genocided 2.5 million hindus as they were systematically eliminated, like the Jews were. The Pak military were given direct orders to rape young, middle aged and older women. Some of the Pak soldiers even raped little hindu boys.

Continual Pakistani shame and the rapes and lies are well documented by the world, as it is today on this blog.

God Bless Mukhtar Mai!

Posted by Global Watcher | Report as abusive

Hussain,

I dont know if you are the same person as Ali, Ummair or the other Pakistani bloggers who appear on this blog and then just dissappear.

You all seem to show the same tendencies 1) curse other religions 2) use of foul lanuguage 3) calling eveyone else idiots (if I could only point out the irony)4)perpetual denail about every obvious fact about pakistan and 5)cursing or abusing mothers and sisters of the other bloggers.

Maybe you are the same blogger with different names or maybe its a culture you guys have grown up in.

My advise to you is try and argue on facts and try not get too emotional, you only succeed in making a complete fool of yourself in front of the whole world.

Posted by indian1127 | Report as abusive

@Hussain,

This is Pakistan a land where “rape is tradition”, please read article and circulate.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-s tories/2009-02-11/does-pakistan-have-no- shame

@Anitha,

Thank you for being a voice of reason. It always takes religiously secular, democratic, plural people like yourself to show reason.

Delusional animals like Hussain and his breathern kin butchers do not view the rest of us as human beings even.

Historical amnesia and an alternate set of history books is rampant in Pakistan.

Enjoy the Muktar Mai article.

Posted by Global Watcher | Report as abusive

“At least 31 killed in Pakistan funeral attack”: Financial Times

Why so much hatred?
Where is the end?

Live .. let live others ..

Posted by Amy | Report as abusive

@Indian1127,

I am equal opportunity and will give every Pak an Equal opportunit to display their ignorance, anger, fear, lack of intelligence, hatred towards others, double standards and so many other fine qualities.

Always give our Pakistani friends a warm welcome and every opportunity to fall on their own knives and shame themselves with their angry, jealousy fueled rants and show their negative mindsets.

After all democracy is about letting all voices being equally heard, even the mentally and psychologically disturbed.

@Hussain,

I hope your mother and sister do well, your sister get educated, may your mother have comfort, respect and much honor and peace.

Posted by Global Watcher | Report as abusive

My idiotic neighours I wount call you freind because you idiots do not deserve that title….So its ok for the monkey worshipeers to xcritcise our religion on the bases thats its hijacked by few muslim fanatics. I am giving you taste of what you write here without an objection and in reagrsd to Ali well at least he puts you idiots to yor place lol. I hope he does come back i guess he must be busy with his busniness in lahore.

This is on the BBC website today!!

“One third of all the world’s ultra poor are Indians. 40% of all malnourished children are Indian.

Out of India’s population, 76% live below the poverty limit of $2 a day, compared to 73% in Sub-Saharan Africa. That is 800 million people living in abject poverty – in one country.”

Which speaks a lot for indian and dont forget the poor that clean your gutters wth bare hands. Mmaybe indian should take out their cowards army out of kashmir and spend that money on these people and also buy few more close combat weapons lol.

You idiots always say we do not take critcism well i dont see any idiot admiting firstly that your cowards army was involved in mass murder of kashmiris. Mere spectators when the muslims women were raped n killed by hindu fantacis I bet yo are one of them.

If yu think we are fanatics on this side I wonder why the pakis never in their history elected a mullah as there leader????????????????????

That shows we are peace loving people but when pushed to the limit can be force to be reckon with as we showed your natas in 1965 and put your dreams to where the sun dont shine. Yes all is not erfect neither is india is a SAINT?

Posted by Hussain | Report as abusive

One third of all the world’s ultra poor are Indians. 40% of all malnourished children are Indian.

Out of India’s population, 76% live below the poverty limit of $2 a day, compared to 73% in Sub-Saharan Africa. That is 800 million people living in abject poverty – in one country.”

Carry on working hard in those call centres before they close erm and my idiotic friends become the number in that tally lol…

Posted by hussain | Report as abusive

“Monkey god is Hanuman, a deity who symbolized a warrior”

My arse monkey warrior lol u make me laugh how many of them do you have in army kos o didnt see any in action in mumbai. They would have done better job with guns then your coward security forces hiding under the buses lol.

even better good idea to send of those monkeys to afghnistan it ll be good match with taliban lol. You idiotic are FULL of HATE for PAKISTAN. Carry on being jelous that we get free aid, so what? cry that why we get weapons from china lol..cry about the nukes which ne day if you carry on will be put right under your hanuman bums lol…I love it when the idiots lose their mind.

I loved it when all the mouses come out of their gutter sorry call centres to write their views ha ha…better acive your target or you will lose bonus and then dont blame me idiots lol…..

Posted by hussain | Report as abusive

Hussain,

I dont think your figures on Indian poverty level are accurate.
http://siteresources.worldbank.org/SOUTH ASIAEXT/Resources/223546-1189611264671/i nd_aag.pdf

Assuming even if they were true, how would it be relevant to the topic being discussed on this blog??

Its quite obvious to eveyone thats its you who is full of hatred (hate is a form of fear).

p.s: Call me an idiot or anything else, but I will only be offended if you ever call me a paki.. lol no offense

Posted by indian1127 | Report as abusive

Indian friends, Hussain and other Pakistanis friends:

Hussain, you are almost beating Ali in your abusive language and is serving you no purpose. Attacking religion serves you no purpose—hurts no one here. What is stopping you to have a decent discussion? Yes it is serving as a good tactic to distract from the main issue.

I have exchanged many such comments with Pakistani party on these blogs, but all in vain. I feel attacking religion is not a good policy and we can express ourselves differently. India as country has no competition with Pakistan at any level. India thinks of Pakistan at the times when wars are imposed on India and brazen acts of terrorism like Mumbai, Delhi parliament and Indian embassy in Kabul are carried out—all from Pakistan soil and with the blessings of Pakistan establishment.

BBC had 2 articles on 60th anniversary of India/Pakistan partition—one on India and the other on Pakistan (see below). From the title only, you see what to expect inside.

“Press pride at India’s achievements”
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/69 47602.stm

“Pakistan marks 60th anniversary”:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/69 45206.stm

If at all there is any race, it is with China and other best of the rest. Just one year after China’s moon mission, India launched Chandrayaan-1, an unmanned orbiter to Moon, and will have an Indian on moon by 2020. I agree with a Pakistani (forgot the name) that Slumdogs is not an Indian movie, and the subject “slums’ is one that no Indian should be proud of. Instead we can use Chandrayaan-1 as an example.

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive

Is the Chinese FTA going to help Pakistan?
Is desperate Pakistan selling itself too chip to China? What price will Pakistanis pay?
Is China too toxic for civilized world?

“For years, Beijing has insisted on establishing regional free-trade agreements with India, but India is hesitant because it is afraid of being swamped with cheap Chinese goods”

http://www.asianews.it/index.php?l=en&ar t=14540&size=A

Posted by Amy | Report as abusive

India is champion in poverty and AIDS. The movie slumdog millionaire speaks for itself.

Hussain, your statistics on Indian povert are accurate.

Posted by Indianslumdog | Report as abusive

“our forefathers had the common sense of distinguishing betwen a idol worshipping n ones of god like other abrahmic religions.
So idiots grow up!!!”
- Posted by hUSSAIN

Hussain: Whatever you said and the way you said about idol worship is summed up as RELIGIOUS INTOLERANCE, which has the potential to irreversibly mature into extremism and finally “terrorism” and you have a list about that. You take care of yourself.

Tell me why do you fight with Christains and Jews, fellow abrahmic religions then.

BTW, do you know why Muslims face the Kaaba during prayers, five times a day and specifically pray towards the black stone there? It is pretty much idol worshipping, isn’t it? I know why, if you know why for that, you will understand the why of idol worshipping etc. There is one difference perhaps—idol worshipping is optional.

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive

BBC had 2 articles on 60th anniversary of India/Pakistan partition—one on India and the other on Pakistan (see below). From the title only, you see what to expect inside.

“Press pride at India’s achievements”
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/69 47602.stm

“Pakistan marks 60th anniversary”:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/69 45206.stm

If at all there is any race, it is with China and other best of

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive

Hussain,
You get out of this world what you put in.

Pakistan is a PROUD BEGGER!!

Pakistan was BEGGING the world for money:
“Please Uncle Saudi, can we please defer oil payments.”
“Please Mr. China, can we have a no-strings-attached loan after all we are all-weather friends, aren’t we?”
“Please IMF, can we have money…again.”
Pakistan has asked the IMF for money twice in less than 20 years!!!

Posted by bulletfish | Report as abusive

One cannot expect pathological liars and crooks to be reasoned with. Whatever many Pakistanis express indicate their state of mind. I do not blame them. This typically happens out of frustration. They have tried hard to get at India and every time India is coming out of it with more strength. Every defeat has increased their rage and is turning into a frenzy. At the same time they are falling apart. This is like the tiny water hog running into a sleeping elephant and getting hurt.

It is not my wish. I’d like Pakistan to have become a progressive state like Malaysia. Unfortunately their leaders got carried away with macho attitude against India and have not realized the reality yet. The inevitable is going to happen. So feel sorry for them instead of reacting to their foul language or laughing at them.

Brother China abandons Brother Zardari for Clinton!

“Pakistani president would not get to meet the top echelons of Chinese leadership on this visit, TNN said. Senior leaders of China would be busy hosting the first official visit of US Secretary of State, Hillary Clinton”

According to press, Zardari will do some sightseeing in China.

http://www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=862 01&sectionid=351020401

Posted by Global Citizen | Report as abusive

“During Zardari’s visit in October, the Chinese snubbed the Pakistani President’s request for a full-blown economic bailout”

“The Pakistani leadership obviously does not want to cause embarrassment to Beijing by raising the issue of a second loan so soon after it got an assistance of $500 million from China a few months back”

Posted by Global Citizen | Report as abusive

Link to the posting below:

http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0  ,8599,1880689,00.html

Posted by Global Citizen | Report as abusive

Why More U.S. troops for Afghanistan??

Pakistan showed us that “Surrender and Hide” is the best policy.

“KRAKOW, Poland (AP) — U.S. Defense Secretary Robert Gates says an agreement between the Afghan government and Taliban rebels along the lines of a truce concluded in neighboring Pakistan may be acceptable”

One general is enough to surrender and run ..I guess.. But what would you say to the 600 US soldiers who gave their lives to protect their values..

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/arti cle/ALeqM5jfq8mPkD9osCTKodDUdqmNsozcawD9 6FBQ600

Posted by David | Report as abusive

“Islamists in Pakistan are urging the government to turn to China to extricate the country from “the clutches” of the United States”

Is Pakistan going to return the 12 billion aid to USA?
Is China going to give 1 billion aid to Pakistan?

http://www.cnsnews.com/public/content/ar ticle.aspx?RsrcID=43863

Posted by David | Report as abusive

“Hussain: Whatever you said and the way you said about idol worship is summed up as RELIGIOUS INTOLERANCE”

Its NOT these are FACTS explain to me, justify it, in plain English you make these idols with your bare hands then place them in a mandar and start worshipping them how STUPID lol… I tell you what my idiot friend one day drop the push the idol on the floor lets see if it helps itself…I DONT THINK SOO!! So if the idol can NOT help itself how will it help you????

“Tell me why do you fight with Christains and Jews, fellow abrahmic religions then.”

The fight in the Middle East in NOT about religion its about LAND, simple as that the Zionist regime wants to use any excuse to push its borders and consume Palestinians land as much as possible with so called civilised world watches by as Isralei war machine uses all illegal weapons on innocent civilians and bombing the UN buildings whilst kids are kept there. Which speaks a lot for so called the advanced and civilised nations in the world.

I think nowdays to see how advanced one is ALL you need to do is commit the worse kind of astrocitis for e.g India in Kashmir, China in tibet, America is Iraq, Afghnistan, Israel in Palestine, UK robbed the world trader in slavery and the list goes on with all the colonial powers who robbed every country now sit high with veto powers. Its laughable if thats what is civilised then personaly the Talibans are better in someways and of you want to know why maybe yo should ask the Daily Express reporter who was kidnapped in Afghnisatn and converted to Islam.

Hope, justice, freedom for all is what is required NOT torture, Occupation, agression and then maybe you ll see some calm n peace in the world. Till that the show will go on!!!

Posted by Hussain | Report as abusive

Muslims do NOT worship the black stone, whish is a CLEAR prove of your IDIOTIC mentality n knowledge about Muslim faith. We touch it if possible but NOT compulsary the fact is ALL the IDOLS that were placed in the house were destroyed except for one and and that one was left with axe on it. So when the idol worshipers asked who destroyed all the idols the answer was well it must be the idol with the axe on it….They realised well if these hand made things cant look after thereself what hope we have them helping us in anyform???

You know too well you can NOT defend your idiotic religion just like yourself. Maybe you should go to your fellow idnian muslim Dr Naik and he will put you to your place as he has done with all your religious leaders.

Posted by Hussain | Report as abusive

There is nothing superior in worshipping a formless, colorless, odorless God, who is masculine, calls women as half men, tells women to cover themselves from head to toe, allows men to marry four wives, tells his followers to kill the infidels and asks them to walk around a cube seven times.

Religions are natural as cultures, and languages. If everyone has to speak in only one language, the world will fall apart. The world is large and diverse. Accordingly there are many cultures, languages and traditions. So is the case with religions. One can dispute the very existence of God itself. But it is left to the individual to seek what he wants. There is nothing wrong in any form of worship and there is nothing inferior either.

If you want to be spiritual, stop comparing yourself with others. Kill the infidel within yourself by disciplined and dedicated effort.

Well my idiotic friends did not response except for one if God does NOT exist. Then I guess yOu are believer of Darwins “theory” again THEORY NOT “FACTS”. As many scientist disagree with his theory how can you worship God in any form except the way he wants you to.

That is NOT answer to my question. Again IF these hand made idols can NOT help thereselv then how will they help you idiots???? Its NOT about if GOd exist or NOT lets stick to the question plz….

Posted by Hussain | Report as abusive

If I am allowed to comment I wonder why Hinduism NEVER spread to all corners of the world? Since Islam is so critcised and misunderstood and its the most practicsed religion as well fastest growing and the second largest. There must be something right with it and lets NOT look at action of the muslims to judge the religion infact look at the scriptures and that might be more enlighting.

Pls lets respect every religion!!!As two wrongs dont make a right thanks

Posted by Khan | Report as abusive

My Indian friends pretend to be more loyal than the king when they talk about US aid to Pakistan. Paisa America ka takleef indian ko. I am sorry to say that from the very first day Indians consider Pakistan as their renigade province. Ghandhi was killed by a hindu fundamentalist when he insisted to give Pakistan’s share of money. Recently we saw ‘India’s human face’ when they chose to fill their dam when we needed water in sowing season amid our economic problems.

Posted by naughtypakistani | Report as abusive

“India has vehemently supported Pakistan at the meeting of the International Monetary Fund in which the fund approved 7.60 billion dollars bail-out package”

“India was the first country to support the approval of Stand-by Facility for Pakistan”

“However, the representatives of the most trusted and friendly countries of Pakistan like Saudi Arabia, China and UAE kept their mum and did not bother to utter a single word in favour of Pakistan or the approval of loan”

http://www.nation.com.pk/pakistan-news-n ewspaper-daily-english-online/Regional/K arachi/16-Feb-2009/Indiabacked-IMFs-bail out-package-for-Pakistan-but

Posted by Global Citizen | Report as abusive

@HUSSAINHUSSAIN,
Swami Vivekananda, during late 1800s, in New York, told enthusiastic Americans not to bother to convert to Hinduism but instead encouraged them to read Gita and Vedas to become better Christians.
These thoroughly researched spiritual scriptures will provide insight into meaning of our existence in the universe. They do not separate people or encourage hatred. There is no crusade or Jihad element in them. Even atheists find them clearly acceptable. A certain IQ level makes it easy to understand the underlying concepts. You cannot ignore an established scientific research and start reinventing the wheel, there simply is no need.
Read abridged Vedas/Geeta (NO conversion here , believe me) to realize that those spiritual scientists were in agreement with (future) appearance of other religions. Firstly they set their stage in the backdrop of this endless and timeless universe, brushing this itsy bitsy planet we live on under the carpet. Secondly, the multiple faith concept was highlighted to reach ones god, promoting religious tolerance and acceptance. Karma and dharma concepts were emphasized to ensure good behavior. Catholics and Islam don’t accept other faiths as vehicles to nirvana.
The vedic sages had summed up in a subtle way:
The collective intelligence of human race, from its inception till its demise, cannot find out the truth about us or universe.
Idol worship is like a symbolic instrument of any religious tradition comparable to your black stone directed prayers, jesus nailed to cross, Mary, peer saab, respect to Fatima, buddha and so forth. Some shias whip themselves up to bleed. We can not make fun of their tradition. Vedas never said there is a god sitting in the idol- no you are misguided by ignorant hindus. God is everywhere, Paths are many.

@Ghandhi was killed by a hindu fundamentalist when he insisted to give Pakistan’s share of money.
- Posted by naughtypakistani

–I am glad you know this fact about Gandhi. So tell this to your Pakistani fellows who do not know this that he died for Pakistan’s cause. The killer was Hindu fundamentalist for sure–agreed, it is real sad. We will call a spade a spade. Here lies the difference between India and Pakistan. Pakistani state and majority of you (not all) will not do so. Your state hugs Taliban and you people take gleeful pride in terrorist actions. Stop this and peace will return.

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive

Global Citizen:
Thanks for the post below. Pakistanis, shock me by commenting on this.

http://www.nation.com.pk/pakistan-news-n ewspaper-daily-english-online/Regional/K arachi/16-Feb-2009/Indiabacked-IMFs-bail out-package-for-Pakistan-but
- Posted by Global Citizen

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive

Hussain:
Kido, you have SOME expertise in dealing with religion.
regarding Naik: Dr. Zakir Naik, an Indian Muslim is a NUT CASE, who appears to have read Indian holy books-the VEDAS and thinks he is above all and misinterprets with childish analogies. He says this: Islam says 2+2 =4 so is right but other religions say 2+2 = 3; so how can they be right and allowed to teach their respective wrong religions. Hussain, only you can fall for his theories and preachings. You know what I just accidently came across his videos and was attracted to one giving his speech to the audience in India. At that time I did not even know who he is etc…I was attracted beacuse a Muslim guy knows a lot about Hinduism and was ready to answer Qn from the Audience (which I noticed was cleverly restricted to one Question without followup Qn). At the end of 5 minute video he appeared so shallow and so visibly arrogant for his knowledge by a religious person. Dr. Naik has been criticized extensively by Muslims that not only he misinterprets Quran and by Hindus. simply speaking DR, Zakir Naik is an equivilent of your stupid military analyst Zaid Hamid. But guys like you will fall for both of them since it is so comforting for you. Grow up! Naik needs to focus to his profession of medical practice.

@Muslims do NOT worship the black stone, whish is a CLEAR prove of your IDIOTIC mentality n knowledge about Muslim faith. We touch it if possible but NOT compulsary.
–why even touch it. I see nothing wrong though it is your faith you do pray upside down or…
Borrowing your words, in Hinduism also: “We worship idols but NOT compulsary.”

Hussain, actually it does not need any religous education to undersyand that a physical object provides a focus to focus on your prayer and mind does not get distracted. This is the very initial step and evolves into a higher level where you can focus well enough without needing any idol. Idols will not protect anyone it is what they represent will protect. I know I have wasted last 5 minutes but sorry mate I can only do so much for you.

@“Tell me why do you fight with Christains and Jews, fellow abrahmic religions then.”–its about LAND
–No sir, check with someone you have problems with the ideology too— Jesus, the son of GOD vs prophet.

Hussain, I hope this was helpful and you will quit your religius intolerance.

Now,
Home Assignment: Why all this non-violence happening in Pakistan if ALLAH is taking care of all of you? I know the answer but would like to know yours.

Allah Hafiz

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive

Global Citizen:Thanks for the post, in fact it is a pleasent surprise for me.
Rajeev said: “Your state hugs Taliban and you people take gleeful pride in terrorist actions”. Our thousands of soldiers are killed by Taliban- we are seeing suicidal massacres almost every day. Pakistanis will be the last to take pride on these acts. We are at war and loosing is no option.

Posted by naughtypakistani | Report as abusive

“Sri Lanka, Bangladesh silence surprises head of Pakistan cricket board”

“Butt said that India openly supported Pakistan hosting the Champions Trophy”

http://www.naitazi.com/2008/10/20/sri-la nka-bangladesh-silence-surprises-head-of -pakistan-cricket-board/

Posted by Global Citizen | Report as abusive

rejeeve–

By the way for you its DADDY lol so show bit of respect to your papa!

“Hussain, actually it does not need any religous education to undersyand that a physical object provides a focus to focus on your prayer and mind does not get distracted. This is the very initial step and evolves into a higher level where you can focus well enough without needing any idol.”

I find you very childish, illogical and incompetency in understanding simple facts. Ask anyone to make something, anything since you say you need object to focus on. Once they have made it ask them to place in high place and bow down to it and focus your mind. I think you will get plenty of laughter definetly.

My idiotic friend RABB,BAGWAN,ALLAH,GOD lives in the hearts of his true followers and when you close your eyes and sincerely try to get closer you will achieve it n your heart will be purified n cleansed. So you dont need to be in any specific place or object to help you to remember him or worship him as he is evrywhere all seeing n knowng.

I wonder why over BILLION muslims dont need any object to help them focus n remembering the FACT it is the most practised religion in the WORLD.

Getting back to the topic more US troops more TARGETS. Its simple as that the only way out of this mess is to have strong Afghan army to look out for afghan intrest. Development and provide ordiary afghans hope n opportunity. The are self suffiecient and maybe the hardest worker on the planet but their strength lies in they NEVE give up. You can NOT impose western values to society like afghan only afghans should choose what sort of system hey want to live under.

Posted by Hussain | Report as abusive

Oh i forgot one more FACT
Islam is possibly only religion in the world that legalizes Slavery – FACT

Posted by chirkut | Report as abusive

‘Second-class citizens’

Just outside the Nawab Masjid mosque in Bhindi Bazaar, in Mumbai, worshippers have laid long strips of blue plastic as temporary prayer mats.

Among the faithful is Gulzar Azmi, who spends much of his time defending some of the terrorism-case suspects who he says have been framed by the police.

And he insists the system is still biased against Muslims.

“When a Muslim sets off a firework, even then they say it’s a bomb,” Mr Azmi complains.

Mumbai’s CST train station has mostly returned to normal

“The government says one thing and does another… they pretty much treat Indian Muslims like second-class citizens.

“When a Hindu commits a crime they get charged with lesser offences. It’s the opposite for Muslims,” he says.

“It was only in September last year that the government finally accepted that Hindus are also responsible for bomb attacks,” he concludes. “Before that they’d never acknowledged that it could happen.”

The fact that alleged Hindu extremists – including a serving army officer – are now in custody, accused of carrying out at least one of the recent bomb attacks, suggests that the authorities may have to broaden their investigative efforts.

Posted by INDIA EXPOSED! | Report as abusive

“Establishing the conditions for a political settlement including at least some of their enemies seems to be the goal of the United States and its allies have accepted is the best outcome on offer in Afghanistan”. This is perhaps the best solution. Indiscriminate bombing will only strengthen the cause of millitants.

Hussain/ Ali please dont play the silly inferiority/superiority game. “All human beings are equal, from the same man and woman”. (Quran 49:13).

Posted by naughtypakistani | Report as abusive

@Pakistanis,@ali,@hussain,@India exposed
I dont want to comment, but just have a look at this web ste and have your say

My quote to all
First at look at your back your making fun out of others
http://www.islam-watch.org/

Have a nice time.

Posted by Murugan | Report as abusive

@Pakistanis,@ali,@hussain,@India exposed
I dont want to comment, but just have a look at this web ste and have your say
http://www.islam-watch.org/

My quote to all
First at look at your back your making fun out of others

Have a nice time.

Posted by Murugan | Report as abusive

@Pakistanis,@ali,@hussain,@India exposed

Pleae have your say on what wiki pedia says
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aisha

Posted by Murugan | Report as abusive

I am geeting tough time posting my messages

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive

Sanjeev Miglani and Alex Richardson: Please take a look at posts by “Ali” (Feb1.24PM on “The curious tale of America’s Predators in Pakistan”) and posted by “India exposed” (1.25PM on “More U.S. troops for Afghanistan”). Clearly Ali is trying to pass off as a different person, which is against Reuter house rule. At one time Myra had to shut off posting new messages after getting train of posts from India exposed and the subsequent reaction of the bloggers.

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive

@ Ali & Hussain.

Aa gaye itni jaldi apni aukat pe! lol

“Islam is possibly only religion in the world that legalizes Slavery – FACT”
Historically, the major juristic schools of Islam traditionally accepted the institution of slavery.Muhammad and many of his companions bought, sold, freed, and captured slaves
http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/med/lewis 1.html

Muhammad was not even an ideal man let alone a prophet. He killed innocent people, enslaved them and waged wars to quench his thirst of blood. In today’s world Muhammad would have spent whole of his life behind bars if not hanged.

Posted by chirkut | Report as abusive

@Rajeev said: “Your state hugs Taliban and you people take gleeful pride in terrorist actions”. Our thousands of soldiers are killed by Taliban- we are seeing suicidal massacres almost every day. Pakistanis will be the last to take pride on these acts. We are at war and loosing is no option.
-Posted by naughtypakistani

–Dear naughtypakistani: My complete message was:
“The killer (of Gandhiji) was Hindu fundamentalist for sure–agreed, it is real sad. We will call a spade a spade. Here lies the difference between India and Pakistan. Pakistani state and majority of you (NOT ALL) will not do so. Your state hugs Taliban and you people take gleeful pride in terrorist actions. Stop this and peace will return.

So I already said “NOT ALL” Pakistanis to exclude sane people like you. BTW, several Indians have condemned clearly and strongly the killings of innocents (in Pakistan or India by Muslim terrorists or Hindu radicalists), it is so sad that you do not see that sort of thing from Pakistani bloggers. At one time I had to explicitly express this concern and only one Pakistani (Saf) said he does condemn all killings. No one else did that. You already see the religious intolerance- they are so quick to respond to that though. Shame on these people and their short-sightedness for the legacy they are leaving for their next generation. There is selective dislike for militants on Af-Pak border who kill innocents in Pakistan but not for LeT and other such hyphentated terrorist gps operating killing Indians in Kashmir and the rest of India. I was glad to see aother Pakistani blogger condemning killings of innocents in India (that is not same as condemning LeT etc) by a blogger and sadly that also came with some ifs and buts. Now this blogger happens to be the same one who once said “Long live LeT”. You are a Pakistani it is natural for you to feel hurt but that’s the truth.

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive

Is the moderator sleeping ??
Mr. Moderator allow me to wake you up from slumber, because if you have chosen to moderate then makse sure people who post senseless venomess messages are kicked out and I am talking with reference to Ali, Hussain and few other blogers from Pakistan.

Posted by Ashok | Report as abusive

Dear Finger Pointers
Those who point fingers at others are simply trying to divert attention away from the darkness they hide inside.
My friends in pakistan when u write stuff like u have written and typically ‘lol’ follows what u write, it goes on to show level of your maturity. In your laughters i hear sounds of nervousness and false smile as you are increasingly getting afraid of the “azgar” you all have created, who is now getting ready to swallow Islamabad after swallowing SWAT. All the best you dont have much time.

Posted by Omniscient | Report as abusive

It must be very clear to everyone by now how Pakistan is struggling. the fact is made clear especially by my Pakistani friends as they cannot have a conversation without using absurd language. This is the difference between India’s growth and Pakistan’s downfall.

All through the history of Pakistan (only 61 Yrs) they have been used by various nations for their benefits. By the Iranians in the early years of independence, by the Americans from 60s onwards till recently and Talibans and China now. How can Pakistan do this to itself? Can the pakis pls answer…..

Posted by Tushar | Report as abusive

Tushar,
You have hit the nail on the head. With this so-called peace deal Pakistan will struggle more especially in Swat. I have read American articles (NY Times) of Swatis working in the USA who are visiting families in Swat, being kidnapped for large ransoms. Even Swatis living in USA are receiving threatening calls. One demand was for $200,000! Is this Taliban Business Venture? While Chinese engineers are being ‘hand delivered’ by Mr. 10% to the Chinese authorities. Those who were kidnapped will NOT want to return to Pakistan to work in developing the country. Swat is becoming a safe haven for the Taliban and others who want to follow them.

With Women’s shops closed, Barber’s businesses closed and very few children attending schools. This is not a rosy picture. It is the same picture of the Taliban in Afghanistan.

Posted by bulletfish | Report as abusive

Dear Moderators
I request you to review the language of the comment before you allow it to be posted, Its reuters for God’s sake. I found the language used by some bloggers Ali, Hussain et al to be particularly appaling. I would request you to remove those posts from the site. I will also urge’educated’ individuals on the forum to support the cause.
Thanks

Posted by Omniscient | Report as abusive

A reader has objected to some comments posted on this blog as offensive in nature. While not getting into the merits of the case, we want to be absolutely clear that personal attacks or criticising another faith are unacceptable. It is also completely unnecessary.

We are for an open debate, and we realise these are emotive issues, but it must remain within the boundaries of civil discourse.

We will be looking at comments closely, and anything that breaches the basic norms of propriety will not be published.

We look forward to your cooperation and a healthy and productive debate.

Posted by Sanjeev Miglani | Report as abusive

Indian posters taunt Pakistanis, describe Pakistan as cancer, attack Islam and go on wild tangents that have nothing to do with the blog posting, and yet it is Pakistanis who are the problem ?

Good job Ali! You showed that Indians can dish out but they can’t take it.

Khan,

Why don’t you and Ali get a room together because YOU Pakis have already bent over obediently for the Taliban. Whatever happened to Hum hai Pakistani to hum jeete geh? Or is that reserved for cricket?

SUCK ON THIS:

Indian wins 3 Oscars.
Pakistan loses 1 Swat.

Why the HELL cannot your so-called PURE country contribute something meaningful to the world?

YOU ARE AN EMBARASSMENT TO THE WORLD AND AN INSULT TO ISLAM.

Posted by bulletfish | Report as abusive

Khan, Ali other abusers
U heard the moderator!! now start using your grey cells and come up with some decent arguments if u have any. Dont vomit the crap you learn in madarsas over here, keep that to brainwash your kids.

Posted by Omniscient | Report as abusive

There is some peace in Swat, indeed that makes Indians angry. A pity there is no peace in Kashmir for last 60 years.

Ali, thanks for putting these Indian posters in their place.

Khan,
We know very well where our place in the world is. If 2 INDIANS can win 3 Oscars between them, that at least is a great achievement on the world stage.

YOU have got the Taliban crawling over your SOVEREIGN territory and soon YOUR PLACE will be 1000 years back! Its a pity because IF they do reach you will they allow you internet to continue your blogging?

As you stated: there is some peace in Swat. Why settle for some when you need total peace.

ASK NOT WHAT YOUR COUNTRY CAN DO FOR YOU, BUT WHAT YOU CAN DO FOR YOUR COUNTRY.
(JFK)

Posted by bulletfish | Report as abusive

Ali, Khan- This blog is about Afghanistan. I hope you guys have understood. I fail to understand why is there so much of Kashmir obsession with the Pakistanis. No matter what the topic is, they have to talk about it.

Guys… please understand that there is more to the world than Kashmir… Currently parts (large chunks) of your country are under Taliban control and they are within a striking distance from Islamabad.

Posted by Tushar | Report as abusive

@Tushar

We bring up Kashmir when the Indian posters on this blog attack Pakistan and Islam as a whole, while ignoring the actual blog post.

We also bring up Kashmir because the Kashmiris have suffered terribly at the hands of the Indian army for 60 years.

@bulltetfish

What does the Oscars have to do with politics ? or even geopolitics for the matter?

Its because of such looney comments that posters like Ali are needed, to bring some wayward Indian posters in line.

Bangash Khan Amir ALi
FATIMA BHUTTO and MUKTAR MAIS
are Paks not Indians

They will be safer in India; you have wiped out all hindus and the tiny number living there are raped and abused on a daily basis, you want to talk about persecution go ask ask your women for a counselling

http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-s tories/2009-02-11/does-pakistan-have-no- shame/2/