Pakistan: Now or Never?
Perspectives on Pakistan
The curious tale of America’s Predators in Pakistan
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America’s deadly Predator unmanned planes won’t go away from the skies above Pakistan’s troubled northwest, and the controversy over whether these aircraft operate from Pakistani soil only gets more intense.
Following a U.S. senator disclosure that the drones, which have wrecked such havoc and are the cause of much popular anger against the United States, were being flown from within the country, Pakistan’s The News conducted its own investigation.
It has found old Google earth satellite pictures from 2006 showing U.S. drones parked on a runway whose coordinates 27 degrees 51 minutes north, 65 degrees and 10 minutes east place it in Baluchistan.
While the paper identified the three robotic planes parked on the runway as the massive Global Hawks, the specialists over at Danger Room say they are more likely to be the Predators that the United States has come to rely upon heavily on the Afghan-Pakistan border.
Britain’s Times also said it had a copy of the Google image showing drones outside a hangar at the edge of a runway whose coordinates placed it in Pakistan.
Predictably the reaction has been intense inside Pakistan which has long chafed at the strikes seen as violating its sovereignty.
Pakistan’s Teeth Maestro said it was a shocking discovery in a post headlined “Drones parked in our own backyard, to bomb our own people.” Chowrangi, another blog on Pakistan, said another lie had been nailed and there was no knowing how many more were on the way.
Pakistan has denied any of the U.S. drones were flying from Pakistani bases and has repeatedly called for an end to strikes carried out by them.
But is there more trouble ahead for the government ?
[Photos of U.S. envoy Richard Holbrooke with Pakistan PM Yousaf Raza Gilani and a protest in Lahore against U.S. missile strikes]
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Only drone-therapy works for some kind of diseases ..
Those bases are non-state areas of Pakistan. State of Pakistan is not responsible for those areas..
10 billion to rent the bases for 1o years ..
How much to rent the nukes for 1 hour??
But Pakistan still denies this. Do you see the BIG deception behind that BIG smile on Pakistan PM Gilani’s face in the above picture?
Some people make a career in deception and hatred?
Pakistan up for sale.
Anybody???
Who sold Pakistan?
What would Jinnah say?
These so called democraticly elected leaders are product of the West imposed on the people of Pakistan. They are NO good for Pakistan they have one leg in Pakistan, one abroad and only come back to loot the country if there is anything left in the reserve in the first place.
The Americans want to lit a candle of democracy in the far corners of the world however they have clear double standards. They are supporters of the Dictators in the form of Musharaf, Husni Mubarak, Saudis, King Abdullah of Jordan and the list goes on n on. They are the supporters of the terrorist states in the form of Israel which has helped USA to build a record in the UN to veto against any UN resoulution to can Israel to be held accountable for its actions.
Maybe a good start would be to have same rules for evryone but then that would be asking for too much by so called the most advanced nations in the world.
Pakistani are NOT sellouts but paki leaders definetly are who have to go to Washington to get their blessings. Soon there fate would be as of Zia-ul-haq and Bhuttos hanged or murderd that too by their masters when they STOP followings their ORDERS!!!
If not in Baluchistan, the drones, alternatively, would have been based on the Afghan-Pak border. What difference does it make? They still would have flown over Pakistan where the terrorist sanctuaries exist. It’s a good deal for the Pak govt for taking small political risks; let the US drones kill the extremists and in return get paid in billions of dollars.
Despite the noise, the Pakistani government wants to establish its writ in the lawless regions inside Pakistan. We know that Pakistan is unable or unwilling to overpower the Taliban by itself.
“Taliban 1, Army 0″
Nice title .:)
http://www.newsweek.com/id/185833
Zardari is doing third grade job of selling Pakistan’s ports to China.
At least Musharraf did a better job of selling the bases!
http://www.app.com.pk/en_/index.php?opti on=com_content&task=view&id=68792&Itemid =1
So now we know why give so much money despite no returns. So Pak cries for money not for lost lives after each drone attack.
Both Pakistan and America ate great actors, but at least Americans did not lie–just kept quiet except this slip of tongue. Oops!
What a govt!!!
Pakistan supports the Taliban, allows them to take over Swat Valley, provides them the resources and moral support and also gets them killed by allowing the US drone attacks right from Balochistan airfield as reported by UK. It appears Pakistani leaders are definately fooling the Pakistani public or its PM and President has lost control over the military and the ISI. In any case, let there be no doubt, the paymaster, the US has enough dollars to get what they want and how they want it, after all they broke USSR in 100 pieces, what is Pakistan? Does any Pakistani brother here know what the hell is going on? Daal may kuch kaala hain!
Peace.
“Pakistan never inked any agreement with US over drone attacks: Musharraf”
So he is saying no paper evidence, no money trail, no accountability! He just took the money in a suitcase and handed over the keys to the bases.
“Drones have only landing permission: Defence Minister Ahmad Mukhtar”
After seeing the pictures, he remembered something. May be after seeing a 30 minute documentary (with subtitles) he’ll remember little more.
http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp ?page=20092\22\story_22-2-2009_pg1_11
India can help the US in its efforts to fight global terrorism. If Pakistanis are uncomfortable about having the US use their air base for drone attacks, India can come forward to offer them a base or two in its territory. Pakistanis know that it is not against their country, but against the common enemy that all countries are fighting against.
I’d suggest American base in Kashmir (Indian occupied). This is the place closest to the NWFP areas. The presence of the US in the valley will cut down on LeT based terrorism there at the same time. The US will get to see first hand of who is telling the truth about Kashmiris and their so called plight.
If Pakistan is trying to bring China into the scene, then the US should make the next move – bring India into the equation. Truce with Taliban is a time buying tactic. Zardari/Pakistani military/ISI establishment is working on a counter move to increased American presence in the area. India might start seeing more terrorist strikes, sponsored by Pakistani establishment. And it will make Mumbai attacks like a picnic. The Chinese might be involved in it too. Zardari made a visit for some strategic planning. He does not want the military to go after him. So he will be planning better this time. This will bring India into a conflict and get the Taliban to work with Pakistani government. Drone attacks can be deflected. Zardari can kill several birds with one stone.
One thing I’ll give to the Pakistani leaders and establishment – they are smart at deception and have milked the Western powers while working against them. They do not care for the average Pakistani either. They have their own agenda.
India should make a smart move and offer bases to the US now. Otherwise the crooks will make significant gains from the situation that is developing.
Mauryan,
India is a nonaligned, neutral and secular country and proud of it. It doesn’t offer bases, landing or fuel to foreign militaries. Nothing should change our values or way of life.
Pakistan makes an agreement, takes money for it. Then quickly forgets the agreement and complains to US, EU, NATO, UK, Canada and to rest about drones. Never seen any worse case of amnesia!
@India is a nonaligned, neutral and secular country and proud of it. It doesn’t offer bases, landing or fuel to foreign militaries. Nothing should change our values or way of life.
- Posted by An Indian Muslim
–Mauryan, I agree with “Indian Muslim”. US Bases in India is a bad idea. You line of reasoning is on the wrong track. LeT is under Pakistan’s control not under US. So US base is not going to affect them but they can be a problem for US, depending upon pak. Pak has a very tight Valve to stop and release these and other terrorists. Trouble for new Kashmir govt-a reason to alienate it from the Indian Central govt. Remember,we are not Pakistan and primarily it is not our war. This gives all the more reasons for terrorist attacks in India. Pakistan can get away with it, not India.
“Police Chief: Iran ready to hunt terrorists in Pakistan”
Any neighbor left?
http://www.tehrantimes.com/Index_view.as p?code=189790
–“Police Chief: Iran ready to hunt terrorists in Pakistan”
–Iran sends HAMAS to hunt Al Qaeda !!
Guys,
Looking at all these situations and America is involved, I would say America is directing a Movie called ASIA 2025 ( http://www.dod.mil/pubs/foi/reading_room /967.pdf )
If not everything at least something is happening as reported in this analysis.
GREATEST DEMOCRACY IN THE WORLD!!!!!!!!!
‘Second-class citizens’
Just outside the Nawab Masjid mosque in Bhindi Bazaar, in Mumbai, worshippers have laid long strips of blue plastic as temporary prayer mats.
Among the faithful is Gulzar Azmi, who spends much of his time defending some of the terrorism-case suspects who he says have been framed by the police.
And he insists the system is still biased against Muslims.
“When a Muslim sets off a firework, even then they say it’s a bomb,” Mr Azmi complains.
Mumbai’s CST train station has mostly returned to normal
“The government says one thing and does another… they pretty much treat Indian Muslims like second-class citizens.
“When a Hindu commits a crime they get charged with lesser offences. It’s the opposite for Muslims,” he says.
“It was only in September last year that the government finally accepted that Hindus are also responsible for bomb attacks,” he concludes. “Before that they’d never acknowledged that it could happen.”
The fact that alleged Hindu extremists – including a serving army officer – are now in custody, accused of carrying out at least one of the recent bomb attacks, suggests that the authorities may have to broaden their investigative efforts.
Ali,
So wonderful to read that you are concerned for India when you cannot even take care of your own Swat. Just surrender and live in hope that all will be well and that the Taliban will leave you alone.
Let me tell you that these Hindu extremists have committed terrible acts, but none outside of India.
I did not like what you wrote sometime ago about those 10 kids teaching India a lesson. That was the most obnoxious, unthoughtful and unforgiveable comment I had ever read!
Pakistan exports terrorism and expects the world to provide it with aid to fight it because it victimises itself.
Are the Taliban who murdered people in Swat, to achieve their aims, going to be tried for their crimes?
Ali,
YOU SHOULD READ THIS:
Raptus regaliter
from the LET US BUILD PAKISTAN website.
@ali
There are in India, they have all rights as every Indian. You have a no rights to talk about what is happening in India.
First be cool and take care of yourself and Paksitan. Dont sell your innocent people for dollars. what is happening in Swat. why Pakistan alled with USA and made a peace deal with Taliban and Taliban fighting with USA.
Dont you think that is non-sense? Drone attacks every in pakistan killing 30-50 people. First save them and get rid of terrorists.
buletfisssh-
Dont need to get personal or touchy please take it easy..
By the way Hindu terrorist dont have reach outside still evolving and i guess lol n some of our muslims brothers who are brainswashed certainly have the capability to reach outside of the country. Offcourse Pakistan have helped UK,USA with credible inteligence on terrorist planning and attcaks which have been foiled but if you dont take action surely cant blame us. In reagrsd to Bombay what happened was cowrdless act but lets NOT hide the incompotency of your government and the security forces who are too busy raping, murdering and occupying KASHMIR.
Well my friend the truth hurts it HURTED you the day i said ten kids hijacked a mini superpower and now above is also TRUTH what is from BBC.
“You have a no rights to talk about what is happening in India.”
OOhhhh I dont have NO right who are you to tell me NOt to write about India. You guys blame us for NOT being honest but the reality is the opposite. When I post a BBC a well respected news article stating facts about india you lor strat running like ———— chickens yes you know now learning son….
Lets agree that I dont have rights to write about India then what gives you write to write about pakistan. When we trade with same coin you idiots dont like it…
“One third of all the world’s ultra poor are Indians. 40% of all malnourished children are Indian.
Out of India’s population, 76% live below the poverty limit of $2 a day, compared to 73% in Sub-Saharan Africa. That is 800 million people living in abject poverty – in one country.”
Mt idiot friend said i am NOT allowed to comment on India so I thought we ll leave that to BBC…lol
“America not an ATM machine”
http://thenews.com.pk/print1.asp?id=1628 92
“Pakistan no vending machine”
http://timbuktu58.blogspot.com/
Vending machine at least delivers what it says. Pakistan, instead of delivering, demands more in a louder voice.
A China visit for Zardari to remember!
“.. and declared that henceforth he would be visiting China after every four months ..”
“Neither is he scheduled to meet his Chinese counterpart, not even their prime minister, nor any other top leader”
“He is not even allowed to enter Beijing. All the four days he will be spending in visiting the provinces of Hubei, Yichang and Shanghai .. learning agriculture and farming ..”
“While Hillary will be hosted at talks, receptions and dinners by China’s top leaders, he will be just be spending his time with to provincial Chinese governors and mayors”
What happened to the brotherly financial package?
Is that the image after 60 years?
Isn’t it time to reset and invest in neighborly relations?
http://www.thefrontierpost.com/News.aspx ?ncat=ed&nid=256&ad=22-02-2009
Hello Ali,
Long time no see. All you wrote is irrelevent about Now and Never of Pakistan. India has the right to be concerned about the goings inside Pakistan since Pakistan exports terrorists which you are proud off. we need to know whom you hug and who you kill. But India’s internal matters do not affect Pakistan, so you do not have the right to be speak.
If nobody evertold you thus far: Indian Muslims hate you Pakistanis for your mentality and politics. If you are concerned about them, do not provoke Hindu radicalists. But taliking to you is talking to stone.
How’s Swat? Never heard your views since you disappeared. Do you think it is advantage Pak or adv. Taliban or both are hugging–good old buddies except this time supporting their govt inside Pakistan. Are Saudis joining too?
Thank GOD for samll mercies, if you know what I mean
Ali bhai,
It is not that India has no problems. India is several times bigger than Pakistan and it has diversity in every which way you think. Even Pakistan is 99% Muslim. Its diversity comes from ethnicity and language. In India diversity comes in the form of religion, caste, class, language and ethnicity. See how complex it is. It has various issues including poverty, illiteracy, hygiene, lack of infrastructure, corruption, disease, resource constraints, terrorism, naxalites, secession, human rights violation, police brutality, trade unions, bureaucracy, red tape, flooding, over population add anything more.
In addition to all these we have constant threats from your dear nation and China. These two are draining our resources.
But look at this – Despite all the above issues, India has managed to survive as a a democracy. It has built roads, infrastructure and institutions of research and excellence. Indians are respected all over the world for their academic and other achievements. Indians form a high percentage of successful businessmen and rich people in the Silicon valley and Britain. India is an IT powerhouse. Its Bollywood is the world’s largest movie producer. It is self sufficient in food production, thanks to the Green revolution in the 1970s. It has free press, judiciary, election commission, comptroller and auditor general etc which cannot be touched by politicians. Its military is the fourth largest in the world. Its management and engineering institutions rank in the top 100 across the globe.
India is not known as a terrorist breeding nation. No country in the world, other than Pakistan is worried about India as a threat. Every country wants to work with India. There is a lot of understanding and appreciation for things Indian. Yoga and Ayurveda are gaining popularity in many nations.
I am sure your system has closed off access to all things good about India and from your words I see that your have been fed lies.
India can never equal Pakistan. In fact it will never equal any country. It will reach its own merit that is unique.
You and your fellow countrymen should start looking inwards and see what went wrong with your country. If we are raising concerns about yours, it is because of the hindrance it offers to our progress. Leave us alone and we will leave you to yourself. Stop insurgency in Kashmir. Stop Mumbai style attacks. Stop relying on Nukes to thump your chests. We have more nukes and missiles than your country does. But we are not using them in every sentence we use.
You really do not care about anyone. So kindly do not shed crocodile tears for Kashmir. India is not engaged in genocide there. Indian military is fighting insurgency in Kashmir, sponsored by your military establishment. And casualties increase as a result. Look at the innocents dying with US drone attacks. It is not intentional.But when removing weeds, good grass gets cut along with it. It is unfortunate. You have no sympathy for anyone. Your treatment of East Pakistanis is example enough to show that.
Everything that has emerged in India – the RAW, the Hindu militancy, riots against Muslims etc have come as a reaction to the non-stop interference from Pakistan. Indian Muslims are not treated as second class citizens – they have their own civil code. A Muslim can marry up to 4 wives in India. Others cannot. Divorce proceedings are according to Islamic codes for Muslims. Indian government subsidizes the Haj. Most Muslims in India are poor. The middle class Muslims and the very rich migrated to Pakistan. Poor in India have no justice, including the Muslims. So do not single them out. There are caste and class injustice in India all the time. These things will take years of progress to overcome. These are not done systematically by the society as your countrymen claim.
I do support the free will of the Kashmiris. But I will never allow my country to bow down to terrorism to achieve that end.
Amy,
Thanks for the link–an editorial.
An excerpt from the same post:
“Even now, their much lesser state functionaries like foreign ministers and special envoys feel no inhibition, as in the past, in calling him (Zardari) up, while they would dare this not in regard to other countries where they talk to their counterparts alone. The American secretary of state still does it; their special envoy on Afghanistan and Pakistan, too, has started doing it. The British secretary does it. And even the Indian external affairs minister Pranab Mukherjee did it to make that controversial threatening call after the Mumbai terrorist strike.”
Finacial dependence of Pakistan is becoming so transparent that the world has become a spectator of what Pakistan has landed itself into. No self respect left?. why not try asking India for help and develop good relation—a good chance that Pakistan/Pakistanis will feel change their attitude towards India.
Mauryan:
It is your choice but you are wasting time on Ali.
I wrote to you on other blogs yesterady (?). Free will is restricted does not include separation of Kashmir from India. It is time to stop Nehruvian blunders. Anyway we do not need to explain this to foreign nationals especially terrorist sympathizers who shout “Long live LeT”
Look at the picture above!
They live on our aid and show us their ATOMIC BOMB!
How kind!
I am geeting tough time posting my messages.
Sanjeev Miglani and Alex Richardson: Please take a look at posts by “Ali” (Feb1.24PM on “The curious tale of America’s Predators in Pakistan”) and posted by “India exposed” (1.25PM on “More U.S. troops for Afghanistan”). Clearly Ali is trying to pass off as a different person, which is against Reuter house rule. At one time Myra had to shut off posting new messages after getting train of posts from India exposed and the subsequent reaction of the bloggers.
“America not an ATM machine”
http://thenews.com.pk/print1.asp?id=1628 92
“Pakistan no vending machine”
http://timbuktu58.blogspot.com/
That’s right .. Vending machines don’t lie, threaten, extort or blackmail with ATOMIC BOMBs!
Vending machines are friendly and innocent.
Also, vending machine don’t have strategic interests in neighboring vending machines.
Ali:
So you survived the drones and did not get beheaded by taliban either.
We were missing you as we were not having enough opportunities to insult pakistan and pakistanis for what they have done. Don’t take it seriously, I am just kidding.
Rajeev: I am as proud of India as you are. The only place where I differ in opinion is about Kashmir. My views are a clear demonstration of what Indians get to enjoy. You might find some Hindu group sympathizer who might feel that you are not an Indian if you do not support Hindutva. I have come across people like that as well. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. However, whatever needs to happen will happen. No one can plan that ahead.
Seeing that the Taliban made the Pakistani government and military bow down to them, the other provinces inside Pakistan might try for complete autonomy the same way.
The US is on the verge of losing its pride. It is almost broke and at the same time, cannot fund its operations in Afghanistan as before. Money does not come from the sky. So something drastic will be done to have a lasting effect. And that will lead to the decimation of this region. Unfortunately, India is right next to it and will end up bearing a major brunt of it.
“Pakistan to arm village militias to fight terror”
Good .. disband the army and the ISI. Why spend money on such loser cowards! What has Pakistan gained from army other than dictators, bankruptcy, beggary and Talibanism? Pakistan lost Bangladesh because of army morons!
No need of such an army if Pakistan can make friendship with Af-India.
“Pakistan to arm village militias to fight terror”
No, not a good idea. Arming civilians not a good idea. They will fight among themselves. They will ask for a new country. They might join Taliban. NATO might have to return after 5 years!
Just finish the job at once and for ever! Looking for shortcuts will lead to bigger quicksand.
The curious tale of UK’s Agents in Pakistan!
Not just US, UK too!
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/feb /22/torture-pakistan-human-rights
“The Kurious Kase of Pervez Ashraf Kiyani!”
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/World /The-Kurious-Kase-of-Kiyani/articleshow /4172185.cms
@I differ in opinion is about Kashmir. My views are a clear demonstration of what Indians get to enjoy.
–Sure, that’s what India is all about and that’s why I did not call your a “Paki”. But this comes with a responsibility. You have assumptions and wishes, but no rationale and are not placing the post-1947 history in perspective. I am as concerned about Kashmiris as you are. Be responsible towards them. I have lived through periods of overt and covert wars—I know how it is. This plebiscite has lost its basis. I was for it at one time, not now. I am ready for any opinion—but with sound reason. I am open to change my position if I am convinced.
@You might find some Hindu group sympathizer who might feel that you are not an Indian if you do not support Hindutva.
—Look I am opposed to contemporary Hindutva philosphy of current politicians. So exclude me, but I am concerned about all Indians.
@Everyone is entitled to their opinion. However, whatever needs to happen will happen. No one can plan that ahead.
–Opinion with rationale. we cannot avoid the inevitable but neither do we want our next generations to curse us. Yes we can plan ahead—reasoning.
@Seeing that the Taliban made the Pakistani government and military bow down to them, the other provinces inside Pakistan might try for complete autonomy the same way.
–This is Pak’s internal issue, nothing to do with Kashmir as you know. I am little concerned except like stability there and that’s good for India.
@The US is on the verge of losing its pride. It is almost broke and at the same time, cannot fund its operations in Afghanistan as before. Money does not come from the sky. So something drastic will be done to have a lasting effect. And that will lead to the decimation of this region. Unfortunately, India is right next to it and will end up bearing a major brunt of it.
—India’s policy is right at the track. Never offer basis to US unless you are keen on setting a free flowing terrorist operating from Afghanistan to Kashmir. If they cannot fight from there they bloody well cannot do from here. To tell the truth, the govt that provides the basis will lose election-it is that serious fro India. Pakistan is playing games with militants and we have other stuff to do. India is doing what it’s expertise are: building up (Afghanistan).
Mauryan:The last message on K-issue was for you although anyone can jump in.
“I hate Allah, Islam and Pakistan: By Ahmar Mustikhan”
“Baluch say they do not want to be called Pakistanis”
“After failing to get any names from them, the victims were immersed in scolding hot coal tar. Three of the men were literally boiled and burned to death. A fourth died later from his injuries”
“Pakistan signs agreements with the Taliban to blackmail the world, especially the US, to get more funds, while it ruthlessly crushes Baluch dissent”
“Do you need a degree from Oxford to work as a day laborer, asks Engineer Hameed Baloch”
“.. the issue of the forced disappearances in Baluchistan, including that of 141 women”
“There can be no bigger crime than committing nuclear tests on occupied lands and Pakstan did that with impunity and got away with it”
“As part of its state ideology, Pakistan considers people from other religions as its enemies and has made clear it will not desist from being the first to use nuclear weapons”
http://www.pakistanchristianpost.com/vie warticles.php?editorialid=683
“Premier fondles minister in public”
“Allah lovers release Polish beheading video”
“There are two other multi-billion projects are run by the Chinese, but those have not brought any change in the lives of the Baluch”
“Woman accused of being spy, forced into sex slavery”
“Rape, sex slavery used ‘to correct genes’ in Pakistan”
http://www.mustikhan1.blogspot.com/
Ali,
You want to quote figures, well here is one for you:
Indian wins 2 Oscars.
Pakistan loses 1 Swat to Taliban.
You did not answer my previous question, please stop avoiding it:
Are the Taliban who murdered people in Swat, to achieve their aims, going to be tried for their crimes?
Ali,
PAY ATTENTION TO THIS:
(Times article: Into a Taliban wasteland of blood and fear. [22/02/2009])
Accounts of Taliban atrocities are many. Bukhtawar Khan’s wife, mother and sister-in-law were all brutally killed by armed men inside their home on February 4 while he was at work. Laiba, his two-month-old daughter, lost her mother.
Khan said the attackers were punishing his family for giving drinking water to soldiers manning a post near their home in the village of Matta Tehsil.
Khan’s younger sister Anwar Begum, who saw the murder, had a narrow escape. “I took shelter in a cattle pen and it saved my life,” she said.
She described how she saw 15 to 20 men storming towards the house. All had their faces covered and were carrying weapons, including rifles and grenade launchers.
This is from a true article and not just mere words like rape and pillage.
A reader has objected to some comments posted on this blog as offensive in nature. While not getting into the merits of the case, we want to be absolutely clear that personal attacks or criticising another faith are unacceptable. It is also completely unnecessary.
We are for an open debate, and we realise these are emotive issues, but it must remain within the boundaries of civil discourse.
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