India and Pakistan’s missed opportunities on Kashmir

February 23, 2009

India and Pakistan aren’t always bickering, including over Kashmir, the dispute that has defined their relationship over more than six decades. Away from the public eye, top and trusted envoys from the two countries have at various times sat down and wrestled with the problem, going beyond stated positions in the public and even teasing out the contours of a deal. In the end of course, someone’s nerve failed, or something else happened and the deal was off.

Beginning 2004  and up until November 2007 India and Pakistan were embarked on a similar course and very nearly came to an agreement on Kashmir, says investigative journalist Steve Coll in an article for the New Yorker. Special envoys from the two countries met in secret in hotels in London, Bangkok and London to lay out a solution and after three years they were ready with the broad outline of a settlement that would have de-militarised Kashmir.

An abstract of the article  is here and the Washington Post  has a story on it.

Under the plan, the Kashmir conflict would have been resolved through the creation of an autonomous region in which local residents could move freely and conduct trade on both sides of the territorial boundary. Over time, the border would become irrelevant, and declining violence would allow a gradual withdrawal of tens of thousands of troops that now face one another across the region’s mountain passes, Coll writes.

He quotes Pakistan’s then foreign minister Khurshid Kasuri as saying that the back-channel talks had by 2007 become “so advanced that we’d come to semicolons.”

“It was huge — I think it would have changed the basic nature of the problem,” the article quoted a senior Indian official as saying. “You would have then had the freedom to remake Indo-Pakistani relations.”

But by then, then President Pervez Musharraf  was so engulfed in political problems that he couldn’t sell himself, let alone a landmark deal on Kashmir . Musharraf fought for the agreement but he had slipped  into a political death spiral and resigned in August 2008, the deal still-born.

As I said before it wasn’t the first time India and Pakistan took the high road to peace and then  faltered. Musharraf wrote in his book In the Line of Fire that he and then Indian prime minister Atal Behari Vajpayee came close to an agreement on how to tackle Kashmir in a 2001 summit in Agra but “mysterious higher powers” had overruled and “humiliated” Vajpayee.

Going further back, the two sides are also known to have reached an agreement over the Siachen glacier, only to step back at the last minute.

But you have to wonder now after the Mumbai attacks of November 2008 if there is any room for this kind of diplomacy. The mood has soured and it would take a considerable amount of courage for anyone to step up to peacemaking in secret. Or perhaps that is all the more reason they must once again throw themselves into the challenge?
[Photos of an anti-India protest in Kashmir at the weekend, and the Taj in Mumbai]
 

Comments

Or maybe Pakistan and India both step aside and let Kashmiris decide in a UN administered plebiscite? conveniently left out in the article, but well written anyway

Posted by Mr. Ketchup | Report as abusive
 

“Before a choice could be made the Pathan hillmen, with the encouragement of Pakistan, plunged across the border on a mission of conquest and pillage”

“The intercession of the Indian Army, appealed for in desperation by the Maharajah and paid for with his signature to an Instrument of Accession to India, sealed off the invaders and saved half the country”

“These tribes, historic enemies of the Kashmiris, were inherited by Pakistan when she became independent. For centuries, periodically wearying of their barren existence, the Pathans have turned their eyes longingly toward the fertile plains and valleys of their neighbors”

http://www.newyorker.com/archive/1953/04  /11/1953_04_11_113_TNY_CARDS_000239418

Posted by David | Report as abusive
 

1. Bring in UN peacekeepers in both sides of Kashmir (India and Pakistan).
2. Hold a plebiscite. Let Kashmiris decide what they want to do – go with Pakistan, go with India, be independent. If some population wants to do something else (Hindus and Muslims wanting to go to India), there should be an option in the voting to do so. Then they should be moved to India with protection and a compensation paid by the Kashmir state for these people.
3. have a treaty signed between India and Pakistan accepting the verdict of the people.

Advantages:

No one will accuse India of human rights violations in Kashmir.
India will not have to spend $ 2 million a day to protect Siachien glacier and spend millions of dollars in keeping Kashmir under control and fighting the lunatics from Pakistan.
Pakistan will have to find some other excuse to terrorize India and it will not have the justification.
If Kashmir becomes an independent state, then it will be a good buffer zone between India and its hostile neighbor.

 

I find it curious that the media leak came from Pakistan at a point when peace with India has become a necessity for pakistan to survive.

India has been negotiating for a long time with pakistan to normalise relations and work on other contentious issues besides kashmir. I dont think there was any concrete solutions that were finalised.

And the fact that the then president was the architect of Kargill conflict doesnt help either.

Posted by indian1127 | Report as abusive
 

Wait … wait ..

When is the last time Kasuri and Musharraf didn’t lie?

These people say anything to get attention.

Their own countrymen believe them?

Posted by David | Report as abusive
 

The biggest winner and gainer in making sure there is no resolution to the Kashmir issue and continuing tension with India is Pakistan’s landlord and Pakistani people master, the Pakistai military leadership. Why? Pakistani, since its birth has survived on foreign monetary and military aid mainly from USA because of cold war, its location, and its closeness with oil rich arab states. This is why the civilian leadership is always going to be on the military leash ready to be aborted if the civilian leaders get too powerful. To secure the continuing financial gain into their private accounts and gain increasing power, the military will create new “difficult problems” in Pakistan to extract more “aid” for “helping” the USA stay in Afghanistan.

Indian on the other hand has a better infra structure, industry and a booming economy and so does not need USA’s aid or need “Kashmir issue” or Pakistan as their enemy to survive. India has never been a military state or under a military dictatorship controlling the civilian government. So there is ample proof and clear reason why Pakistan (military not the people) have a verifiable motive to support, orginate, finance and carry out terrorist attacks in India and make unreasonable demands regarding Kashmir. Unfortunately, the ones who are suffering are the majority of Pakistani people who if they are poor, are duped into Jihad in the name of religion where they die wasting their life for few rich Generals, the rest get their basic rights trampled by fake emegencies and military coups or become victims of sectarian terrorism. In the end Pakistan has earned reputation as “Terror Central” by the World and in spite of being the original “non Nato frontline ally” (like Israel since 1947), in spite of receiving $56 billion from US taxpayers (most of which has gone in various “leaders” and Generals accounts) since 1947, it has little to show for in real progress. On the other hand India, a Russian ally, suffering 4 wars/conflicts started by Pakistan and China, has made a 180 degree turn to progress in all major areas of science, technology, space, education, economic and most of all is a secular state where Muslims are admirably in the forefront of progress, is now a major strategic of the US. Once again India has no motive in fighting with Pakistan or a reason or credible motive to delay a REASONABLE Kashmir resolution. Only a total MORON would not see the clarity and logic of this.
Peace.

Posted by Nathuram Waghmare | Report as abusive
 

This “document of accession” that these maharajah signed does not exist.

India invaded Kashmir in 1948 and since then the Kashmiris have been living in an Indian prison. No amount of Kashmiri blood spilled makes any difference to Indians, who quick to cite economics as some sort of relief.

 

This “document of accession” that these maharajah signed does not exist.
- Posted by Bangash Khan

Its time you crawled out from whichever rock you have been living under.

http://www.kashmir-information.com/Legal Docs/Maharaja_letter.html

Let me give you a more impossible dream than kashmir, try and achieve the dream of maintaining sovereign unified pakistan in the next 5-10 years

Posted by indian1127 | Report as abusive
 

This “document of accession” that these maharajah signed does not exist.
- Posted by Bangash Khan

So you believe that India invaded Kashmir firstly and then went to UN for cease fire, If India had any agenda of expansion it could have get Bangladesh as well.

India waited for that “Document” to be signed first, only then she kicked the azz of paki invaders, If there was no “Document” then You guys would not have retained any part of Kashmir today. We had plenty of chances to negotiate Pakistan occupied Kashmir later, but we didn’t.

Some people say Nehru was Naive or he was Idiot enough to go to UN for Kashmir resolution. I would say its the Domestic political policy which Congress Party adopted, Just to keep issues alive, on which they can contest in elections. If they had not practiced this policy there would not be any Kashmir or Khalistan problem.

Posted by punjabiyaar | Report as abusive
 

@Mauryan
Here is point by point rebuttal of your claims:
1. Bring in UN peacekeepers in both sides of Kashmir (India and Pakistan).
- No issues
2. Hold a plebiscite. Let Kashmiris decide what they want to do – go with Pakistan, go with India, be independent. If some population wants to do something else (Hindus and Muslims wanting to go to India), there should be an option in the voting to do so. Then they should be moved to India with protection and a compensation paid by the Kashmir state for these people.
Are you suggesting another partition? How will you ensure this time it will be violence free?
- How will you esnure that this plebiscite will not fan other separatist demands? Jammu is already asking a separation from JnK. Laddakh will follow. Will Kashmiri allow that? How will ensure that it would not follow another cycle of violence?
3. have a treaty signed between India and Pakistan accepting the verdict of the people.
- If treaty holds any value then what’s wrong with Kashmir’s annexation treaty?
It was signed in presence of last viceroy Lord Mountbatten. Did it helped? No!

Advantages:

No one will accuse India of human rights violations in Kashmir.
- Please elaborate on this. To me its a too weak point.
Additionally, Solution to issue of human rights lies in strengthening the legal framework of the nation and not in playing with its integrity.
“India will not have to spend $ 2 million a day to protect Siachien glacier and spend millions of dollars in keeping Kashmir under control and fighting the lunatics from Pakistan.”
- Here is another way of saving cost. Lets dismantle india’s army and save billions of dollars. Let us be sitting stooges to others. My dear friend, Indian public pay taxes to govt to protect them and their country’s borders. Only morons can agree to cut cost at the expense of national security.
“Pakistan will have to find some other excuse to terrorize India and it will not have the justification.”
- So are you suggesting playing with nation’s sovereignty to pacify others whim? If not kashmir then Assam or gurudaspur district will be invoked. There is Nothing that binds Pak together other than animosity towards India. They need this enmity to survive.
“If Kashmir becomes an independent state, then it will be a good buffer zone between India and its hostile neighbor.”
- India share border with pakistan in Gujarat, Rajasthan, Punjab and JnK. Only a small portion of Indo Pak broder lies in JnK. How does JnK act as a buffer between the two neighbors when nothing lies between the two in rajasthan, gujarat and punjab?

Posted by chirkut | Report as abusive
 

Never seen such a sleeky slimy sucker!

This guy is the President of Pakistan .. running his own PR, Ad, extortion campaign! Anyway ..

“Sino-Pakistan relations higher than Himalayas”
Spent 4 days in China but couldn’t enter Beijing, meet any senior Chinese leader or get a penny.

“With all due respect, we need no lectures on our commitment”
After consuming 12 billions and demanding 15 billion more from US!

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2009-0 2/23/content_10872882.htm

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/con tent/article/2009/01/27/AR2009012702675. html

Posted by Amy | Report as abusive
 

Mauryan:
I have tried to address your each point.
@1. Bring in UN peacekeepers in both sides of Kashmir (India and Pakistan).
— How many Kashmirs are we taking about here. Indian Kashmir, POK/Northern areas, Pak-Gifted Kashmir, Aksai Chin—all of them? UN peackeepers is too many steps forward. Thinking again, we will not need them.

@ 2. Hold a plebiscite. Let Kashmiris decide what they want to do – go with Pakistan, go with India, be independent. If some population wants to do something else (Hindus and Muslims wanting to go to India), there should be an option in the voting to do so. Then they should be moved to India with protection and a compensation paid by the Kashmir state for these people.
- who are “Kashmiris”?. plebiscite is not valid anymore-reasons are well known. Actually Simla agreement clearly acceptable to India and Pakistan has decided LoC as International border and no more aggression—Instead Pakistan started terrorism and Kargil. For argument sake: Kashmiri freedom movement is meticulously planned by Pakistan using non-Kashmiris, projected as Kashmiri freedom fighters to change the demographics— genocide/exodus of Pundits and other non-Muslims. Remember slogans “Convert, Flee or Perish” & “agar Kashmir me rahna hei, to allah ho akbar kahna hei”. As a true example, my friend’s Kashmiri Pundit wife lost mother/brother and father permantally mentally disabled and she had to leave Srinagar. Why should Pundits be ignored? I don’t see them fitting into this scheme since they are not part of this movement. They have only one safe place—in India. Kashmiriyat has been crushed and Kashmiri language is slowly made extinct ignored and Urdu promoted/ and even imposed in certain areas. True Kashmir has ethnic, religious and language diversity. But Kashmir is being projected as “an un-annexed Islamic state” which should secede from the secular and democratic India to encourage merger with Pakistan or as an Islamic state. In a true Kashmir movement you will not see Pakistani flag fluttering in India.
I see a lots of violence like 1947 partition If this happens and minorities become part of it. You can not prevent all that.

Advantages:
No one will accuse India of human rights violations in Kashmir.
–No need to be defensive. Situation is sad but we cannot sit convincing the world how clean we are. We must do what is morally right.

India will not have to spend $ 2 million a day to protect Siachien glacier and spend millions of dollars in keeping Kashmir under control and fighting the lunatics from Pakistan.
– if you start saving money like this, you’ll undo the Sardar Patel’s work. Khalistan also would have happened and Sikhs sitting in Khalistan would have been cursing their bad decision. It is going to set a bad precedent.

Pakistan will have to find some other excuse to terrorize India and it will not have the justification.
–At least terrorists already have declared one-to spread rule of Islam all over India. Pakistan can surely help them or find some other reasons.

If Kashmir becomes an independent state, then it will be a good buffer zone between India and its hostile neighbor.
–Actually it is going to be a hot bed of terrorist operations for achieving mission#2, “morally” supported by Pakistan, except that we will have no control over those terrorists.

Also the questions are: what will happen to this Kashmir if it merges with Pakistan—would a portion be gifted to China—military strategy POV like Pakistan did with a potion of POK. Ladakh is contiguous with China too. Solution is political: Pakistan stops terrorism, dismantle terrorist training camps and give credible proofs, allowing Indian and Pakistani troops to back off and let Kashmiris breathe and soak in the political environment. Solution short of independent Kashmir can be discussed.

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive
 

Amy,
I am wondering if Pakistan has stopped taking US less seriously than China. But he licks Chinese boots so well!
He says:
“The situation in Pakistan, Afghanistan and India is indeed critical, but its severity actually presents an opportunity for aggressive and INNOVATIVE action.”
Mr 10%: Innovation would be to quit double dealing with militants. Old habits die hard. Be a man and do it for your late wife, innocents in Pakistani and the rest of the world.

“Let it not be said by future generations that our nations missed an extraordinary opportunity to build lasting peace in South Asia.”
–Back it up by stopping kneeling down to militants and making friends with the remaining.

This guy gives sweet statements towards India too, calling Kashmiri terrorists as terrorists. But his statements are too nice to be taken seriously. That’s pity that the leader cannot be trusted.

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive
 

Kashmir is over-discussed as being a problem, therefore propagated as being a problem.

Kashmir is nothing compared to the the Radical Islamicization of Pakistan. It is a non-issue, the real focus is terrorism.

You deal with Terrorism and Pakistan, the Kashmir issue will just disappear, with little or no noise.

The poor muslims in Pakistan are actually a victim of proxy war by Pakistan. Once Pakistan quits fomenting Kashmir with “non-state” actors, Kashmir will return to a normalized state and Hindus, Muslims and all in India will enjoy peace together without sectarian interference from Pakistan.

Pakistan will learn its lesson soon. Its days are numbered.

Best the world make plans to confiscate Pak nukes upon disintigration of Pakistan into the abyss.

Posted by Global Watcher | Report as abusive
 

@Punjabiyaar

This “document of accession” that these maharajah signed does not exist.
- Posted by Bangash Khan

So you believe that India invaded Kashmir firstly and then went to UN for cease fire, If India had any agenda of expansion it could have get Bangladesh as well.

Punjabiyaar, don’t worry and get upset, I have already accepted the fact that Pakistan keeps an alternate set of history books. I worked with Paks in Western countries and they often have a historically completely different account of history on the exact same event. It seems as though the Government of Pakistan, has imposed a great deal of misinformation in their minds from childhood, in the hopes of emboldening and strengthening their beliefs against India.

The lies comeout though, when we have lunch together at work and I just see a blank look on the face of my Pak co-worker friends. One of them had the sense to goto the library and research for himself and came back to me weeks later and admitted that Pak history, at least many accounts of the details are fabricated and false. He couldn’t believe it, he would read book after book of history in the library regarding Pak. history. He felt cheated by his Pakistani forefathers. He is glad he left Pakistan, he said he has been brainwashed his whole life. Even the other collegues, Paks, seemed friendlier, after he told them the actual history of events being contrary to the books in Pakistani schools.

Lies eventually come out.

Posted by Global Watcher | Report as abusive
 

Global Watcher,
It is the same with these movies. People throughout the world loved Gandhi (movie and person). Yet, if I ask someone whether they saw the movie Jinnah; they have no idea what I am talking about. I have not seen it because it is REALLY difficult to get hold of. I read reviews about it and every other review from a Pakistani stated that this SETS THE RECORD STRAIGHT. However, many Pakistanis HATED it because Jinnah was played by Christopher Lee. Yes, he has played Dracula, but why stigmatise a great, talented and experienced actor to ONE of his past characters?

I was told (and have experienced) that history judges how you led your life. Gandhi is revered and Jinnah…well, he would hate to see Pakistan as it stands in the world today.

Posted by bulletfish | Report as abusive
 

Rajeev: Solution is political: Pakistan stops terrorism, dismantle terrorist training camps and give credible proofs, allowing Indian and Pakistani troops to back off and let Kashmiris breathe and soak in the political environment.

Pakistan does not call its anti-Indian activities as terrorism. What it calls as terrorism has been defined by the US and its allies. Until 9/11, the US and its allies turned a blind eye to Pakistan’s activities against India. During the Afghan conflict, when Pakistan poked at India, we were told by the US that they understood India’s issues, but Pakistan had a problem. Look at how Pakistan is dodging the Mumbai attack issue. They are very good at manipulation and have survived all these years manipulating even the super powers.

Getting Pakistan to confirm to the global definition of terrorism itself is not possible. They want the Kashmir issue and the accompanying terrorism to be recognized as freedom struggle and the Western powers have been acting favorably so far, in order to get their agenda going. How do you expect them to dismantle their terror infrastructure that has been built around anti-Indian goals? On top of that they have become a nuclear powered nation. Whether we like it or not, everyone has to deal with this carefully. Even their people on this forum are launching their nuclear weapons verbally between every alternate lines. Imagine what they desire.

I do not come from Pakistan specific angle here at all. I place myself in a neutral position and see how I should judge this situation. Then I looked at various references on the Kashmir issue, Indian and non Indian. Based on my understanding, I see that India is unfortunately on the wrong side in regards to Kashmir. I am looking at it from 1947 onwards.

What I say is my opinion. This is not going to change anything on the ground. No Indian or Pakistani politician can change the status quo. This conflict is destined to end by violent means. We are seeing it already/

Just like calling the Hiroshima, a wrongful act does not make an American as anti-establishment and unpatriotic, my opinions on India’s action on many issues can vary and can sound anti-Indian. I do not sympathize with Pakistanis in this matter. If I am the judge, then I try to observe the situation accordingly.

 

I lived in India from 1967-1971. Some of the comments sound the same as 40 years ago. My main fear would be any type of partition or the creation of new countries as a quick fix, from Iraq to beyond India, will end up with each separate state or region wanting to be it’s own nation. I worry about Central and Southeast Asia more than ever.

 

Mauryan:
I was trying to deal with your rationale point by point. I already know your general opinion. It will be much easier that way if you do that in turn.
Any way:
@Getting Pakistan to confirm to the global definition of terrorism itself is not possible. They want the Kashmir issue and the accompanying terrorism to be recognized as freedom struggle and the Western powers have been acting favorably so far, in order to get their agenda going.
-Mauryan you acknowledge that Pakistan is using terrorism and then you say since they are stubborn let us agree with them. Is that a logic? if you tell me it is freedom struggle I can talk. They are terrorists (non-Kashmiris–Afghans and Punjabis). In fact on etime-perhaps only time-Zardari also said they are terrorists (no slip of tongue here).
“Pakistani President Asif Ali Zardari said ….that jihadist groups fighting to expel India from Kashmir are “terrorists” rather than “freedom fighters,” … The statement reverses decades of Pakistani policy over Kashmir and has caused major controversy in the country’s military, which has fought three wars with India over the disputed region.”
http://www.acus.org/atlantic_update/paki stans-zardari-calls-kashmir-militants-te rrorists

“one person’s terrorist is another’s freedom fighter” slogan is outdated and is being exploited by Pakistanis and they are wrong. Just because the Pak does no acknowledge the truth does not means we agree with them.

Your position on post-1947 is same as any Pakistani’s, which I have no problem with except I need little convincing here. Kashmir would have gone to pak but for Paki impatience.

@Then I looked at various references on the Kashmir issue, Indian and non Indian. Based on my understanding, I see that India is unfortunately on the wrong side in regards to Kashmir. I am looking at it from 1947 onwards.
–Support it and support that Pakistan is on right side of the history.
@How do you expect them to dismantle their terror infrastructure that has been built around anti-Indian goals?
—–Why anti-India goal? What’s the need. Who is on the wrong side of the history. I know India is not a saint but each time it is Pakistani who has done honors to initiate the problem.
@On top of that they have become a nuclear powered nation. Whether we like it or not, everyone has to deal with this carefully. Even their people on this forum are launching their nuclear weapons verbally between every alternate lines. Imagine what they desire.
-Congrats to them. I am the one to oppose verbal use of NUKE. I have expressed that many times with the URLs of what happens after the dirty bomb etc. So giving Kashmir to them solve their OCD.

Mauryan: I do not see any point. Mostly your rationale includes “let the wrong prevail”. Assumption that India will be secure: You are wrong. India will be less secure.

If you are concerned about India’s safety: terrorists are not sympathetic to those who kneel.
If you are concerned about Kashmiris: You are giving them a less secure future if they chose to merge with Pakistan (think all the factors; security, terrorism, education), a non-viable and less secure state if they chose to become independent. In either case China/India will use this for India’s military disadvantage. Also, what do you have to say to Kashmiri Pundits? Just because they do not use gun, you’ll conveniently go ahead with your assumptions.

You and I are welcome to express our opinions but should have sound logic, not wishful thinking. As compared to Pakistan, India is on the right side of the history. Historically, emotions overpowering our brain has already compromised our national security in the past. Nehru is infamous for this. For certain reasons, I personally include Indira Gandhi also.

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive
 

Rajeev,

I am not proposing that we bow down to the demands of terrorists. Far from it.

I explained in one of the earlier postings (do not remember which one, there are so many now), about the case of Junagadh and Hyderabad. Based on how India dealt with these princely states, it should have been all right for Pakistan to annex Kashmir (adjoining state, majority Muslim population). Like you have mentioned, Pakistan’s impatience led to a situation which invited Indian intervention. Even after that there was time to resolve it. However, one incident after another has prevented a resolution to be reached. If Kashmir had been joined with Pakistan earlier, I can bet, by now they will be fighting the Pakistanis instead of us. Of course Pakistan would have used that as an excuse to build up arms against India. One way or another Pakistan would have built an agenda.

I would not say India has been on the right side of history as you are claiming. We interfered in the case of Sri Lanka and sponsored the terrorist groups there for a while. I grew up during that time. Morally it felt all right to support the Tamil Ealam then, until people realized the sinister side of what was going on and began to distance themselves from the movement. But there was training going on for the Tamils on Indian soil.

I would not blame our countrymen. We were ruled by a click of very self centered politicians like Indira Gandhi, Sanjay Gandhi etc who created problems within states, in order to dismiss them, bring Governor’s rule and election to bring Congress regime in those states. Jammu and Kashmir fell victim to this treatment as well. Khalistan problem went out of control due to the political gains that Indira Gandhi foresaw in Punjab.

Kashmir alone sticks out as a special case in Indian history. Any other state has no such privilege. There is nothing in the charter for other states to claim independence. They were given to India at the time of independence. So as an alternative, states have fought and obtained linguistic divisions and further divisions (Uttranchal, Chattisgarh etc). That kind of division is all right so long as all states stay within the Indian union. Somewhere I read that if the linguistic division had not happened, India would have gone the East Pakistan way. I am digressing.

You cannot expect logic in political situations. Do you think the division of Pakistan happened by logical means? And Bangladesh or Nagaland? Emotional reasons have led to every problem we see in the world and logic is nowhere to be found. When that is the case, why should I offer logical solutions?

I want Kashmiris (read as majority group in the valley) to decide what they want. If they make the wrongful choice then let them suffer. Why should we worry?

 

Mauryan…..Mauryan…MAURYAN

You are really boring dude……can you not go read some books, watch New Zealand vs. world champions, watch CNN and finally stop writing on this blog. You did not address the plight of the hindus thrown out of the State. You have no clue as to how to deal with Bodoland and scores of other brain-dead groups causing problems in northeast. Did you ever learn anything from our Americans?

India does not encourage separatist movements in Srilanka or India, because the minorities are not persecuted based on their religion. Mauryan, the partition was based on the framework of 2 nations for 2 different religions as demanded by Jinnah and Muslim League. All Hindus were raped and killed in Pakistan, the then 2 millions were now reduced to 20, 000. So do you think religion should be basis for any kind of settlement? What about over 150 Mil muslims Iive in India then, send them to Pak, the vultures? No you don’t agree, I know. Land is hard to get these days Mauryan, don’t you get it? Your cowardice is scary man…. look at Anita and Amy……, learn from our sisters, will you, sorry Im kind of annoyed with you.aT LEAST JUSTFY YOUR PEN NAME MAN OR CHANGE IT, FOR GODS SAKE.

 

azadP writes: “India does not encourage separatist movements in Srilanka or India, because the minorities are not persecuted based on their religion.”

Azad, persecution does not differentiate in terms of religion, ethnicity, language etc. It is persecution in some name. In Sri Lanka it was Tamil ethnicity that was under persecution. In the case of India/Pakistan, it was religion. In the case of East Pakistan, it was language. In some parts of India, persecution happens due to caste. In some other parts it happens due to class. The bottom line is people are dying at the hands of brutal monsters who are using one excuse or another to perpetrate their crimes. You cannot wash away what was done by our government and people to support the various Tamil militant groups and finally LTTE in Sri Lanka. I have seen these camps in person and I have collected money for them during my youth. Later on we learned a lesson and we have distanced ourselves from it entirely. And that is the best thing we ever did. But we did train terrorists in Sri Lanka, provided them with food and clothing. We cannot erase that.

Seen from our perspective, we did the right thing. You go to every country, it will be the same story. Us versus them. Where does it end and when?

At some point, we need to come forward and say enough is enough. No one has gained from any of this. Let us talk and come to a compromise. This is provided there is some reasonable justification on the other side. Even all bandits in Bihar who were terrorizing the people and public came forward to surrender when Jayaprakash Narayan made a deal with them by forgiving them. Many had killed more than 30 people. And they were let go.

Somewhere the human element has to surface and do the right thing. I know of Kashmiri pundits and their eviction from their home land. Do you think they will ever go back to live in their native place again, even if they are assured of safety by their fellow Kashmiris who are Muslims?

A lot of water has flown under the bridge. What do you think we should do? Kill AR Rehman because he is a Muslim? And throw out Gulzar? Ban Muhammad Rafi songs? Burn all theaters that show Shah Rukh Khan movies? Let us not misdirect our anger aimlessly. If you open up the history of the Indian subcontinent for the past two thousand years, you will find one atrocity replacing another. It is an endless list. If people are put in a queue for justice, the queue will go around the globe twice. Every one of has a close or distant relative who has been brutally attacked or killed. Where do we stop?

The Sikhs who died in 1984 at the hands of Congress goons still haven’t got their justice. The politicians got away. If Kashmiri pundits need justice, should they stand in line before or behind the Sikhs?

Let us not delude ourselves as a land of milk and honey. It is not. India is a good country. But every country has acted wrongfully sometime or the other. No one is perfect. There is nothing wrong in admitting it and moving on.

The only thing I object against the Pakistanis is their non stop claim of atrocities in India. I agree that there are atrocities. But my point is that there is an equal or higher level of atrocity in their country. They talk as though theirs is a land of milk and honey. That is blindness and not patriotism. While telling them so, I try to remind our countrymen that we too are not angels entirely. But we are at least warm enough to admit our mistakes. That is the sign of a civilized people.

We are a country where openness is a right and everyone has the right to voice his opinion. Everyone has the right to use his head to understand every situation or event for himself. One should not expect everyone to toe in line for everything. Then that sounds like a demand from the Taliban.

 

Cannot post

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive
 

Mauryan, correction: China intruded Ladakh and took over Aksai Chin for building a road between Xinjiang and W.Tibet; also provides Military advantage over India. Pakistan donated Saksham valley to them as a goodwill gesture (Kashmiris: start learning chinese before plebiscite).more later

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive
 

Mauryan @”We are a country where openness is a right and everyone has the right to voice his opinion”

Your name makes me think you are from TN..so
– Out of curiosity, i ask you, if you wanted to exercise your right to voice your opinion against the lawyers or police there in TN how would you do it ?? or If you wanted to voice against the TN politicians who organised protests because India is not asking srilanka to stop war on LTTE. how would you do it ??
Don’t tell me you would voice your opinion by posting in Reuters blogs..
Its not your voting right which you get once in few years..that answers to the immediate situation on hand..by the time you vote the political party out in next election the damage is already made..and you have now way to voice your opinion against police or law students or lawyers..
There is a huge gap..between giving you the right and allowing you to exercise your right.
Nice to know we have sucha right but sad we cant use it to any effectiveness!!

Posted by Anitha | Report as abusive
 

Anitha writes: “Nice to know we have sucha right but sad we cant use it to any effectiveness”

Welcome to democracy. It is slow isn’t it? justice is very slow. That is why the world loves the Chinese. They have no rights there. The oligarchy in China makes the rules and no one has any rights, so it is easy for greedy corporations to set up shops there and make a fortune. In India, democracy is both a blessing and a burden. It has all rules in the law book and very little of it is practiced in reality. And on top of that decision making is marred by protests, votes and other barriers. Many things that could have been done quickly if we had an autocrat in power, do not materialize easily. So businesses like autocratic nations and go there mostly. And world’s military powers including the US, like dictatorships for the same reason. They just deal with the top guy and the deal is done. Should we then give up democracy?

I have the rights to my opinion and this doesn’t mean that I should walk into a crowd of rioters and exercise my rights there. No one will listen to me in that mayhem. And there is no guarantee that I’ll come back out of it alive. But, I can tell myself what was right and what was wrong. Wherever and whenever I can express it, I can. And I can write in a magazine or newspaper what I think is write.

@Your name makes me think you are from TN

Do not judge my personality by what I write. Just because I write on the SL issue, this does not make me a Tamil or a Sinhalese. That is not important. There are people writing on women’s names in many internet forums. Based on your writings, should I judge you are so?
For all you know I could be a Muslim.

 

Rajeev writes: “Mauryan, correction: China intruded Ladakh and took over Aksai Chin for building a road between Xinjiang and W.Tibet; also provides Military advantage over India. Pakistan donated Saksham valley to them as a goodwill gesture (Kashmiris: start learning chinese before plebiscite).more later”

I lost the context of this. This must be referring to one of my earlier responses. Anyway, I do not expect diplomatic approaches from countries like China or Pakistan. We know what they are made of. If Obama’s economic efforts do not work, and it weakens the military fundings, expect them to walk into Taiwan and fly their flag from there.

 

Mauryan, Tell us something that we dont know..Democracy is not necessarily slow..all we need is the right tool for a democracy to function at speed. Not all 1.1 billion people can write in news papers !! and protests are not the right means to grab attention of ruling elite..sadly thats the only way in the democracy we are in today..Its simply as good as you dont have a voice..
Offcourse you can think what ever you want and that is not restricted anywhere..not even in china !!

Posted by Anitha | Report as abusive
 

@I lost the context of this. This must be referring to one of my earlier responses. Anyway, I do not expect diplomatic approaches from countries like China or Pakistan. We know what they are made of. If Obama’s economic efforts do not work, and it weakens the military fundings, expect them to walk into Taiwan and fly their flag from there.
- Posted by Mauryan
–In on one of your messages you mentioned that Pakistan donated Aksai Chin to China, which is wrong. I was correcting that.

But to comment on your statement, China flag will not fly in Taiwan even if US leaves Af-Pak areas (if that’s what you meant). remember US bases (lots and lots of bases and troops too) around S.Korea/Japan to take care of N.Korea and China. US War planes are <1000km away and I doubt so far that economy will push US out of there. Staying there is their bread-and-butter issue.

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive
 

Anita, Rajeev,Mauryan

I still don’t see any change in you Mauryan, lets get down to facts.

A former central minister, who had worked in Indira and Rajiv Gandhis cabinets, had spent a week with us here in US last October. He said Indian govt had never supported the LTTE armed struggle even though there was involvement at the request of Srilanka at govt level. He was part of the decision making cabinet committee that sent IPKF to Srilanka to ensure peace between both warring sides. Peace mission fell apart due to LTTEs failure to give up arms, thus breaking the agreement with Jayewardene’s Govt. consequently necessitating in the IPKFs return. Its a different matter, he said, some private global citizens have helped without govts consent, some politicians from TamilNadu included. If Mauryan collected funds he shd tell us if he was taking them home for personal use. What a shame we have to fight Mauryans not usual Pakis on this forum.

Mauryan is suffering from a condition seen in adults- who as kids, were bullied by peers and/or subjected to very very strict upbringing that kept them away from movies, cricket so forth. So they attack those who are sympathetic to them (Rajeev). They take a larger than life posture (his pen name), they take pleasure thwarting others enthusiasm in them (Anita), condescending the seemingly weak regardless of the merits and they encourage others to assume mysterious roles for themelves (Im a tamil, sindhi or even muslim). Hide and seek, is their only recourse to pleasure as they are unsure of their standing on any subject matter, because of underlying phobia they harbor of inviting punishment (Shd they take sides). OH yes they are narcissistic, look at the long posts lacking any substance. They are left alone grieving in their middle age. FINALLY, THEY NEED ANTIDEPRESSANTS.

 

azad DP:

Don;t be that harsh on Mauryan. Since no Pakistani is concerned about Kashmir issue, which is what we have been saying all along, we need someone to discuss with. Pakistanis, contribute of concerned.

PS: I am getting tough time posting slightly large messages.

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive
 

Mauryan, Throwing dirt on India as logic to argue Kashmir case is not fair. I am not even getting into that except in proper context. Are you trying to say India is inherently a rogue state?

@Let us not delude ourselves as a land of milk and honey. It is not.
–Almost every Indian will agree with you. But (right) decision making is not everyone’s cup of tea. India is the product of such decisions and many of those, if given to you and me, India would have been in terrible mess or become non-existent. Let us thank them first. Don’t you think there could be some justifiable reasons behind Junagadh and Hyderbad as compared to Kashmir? Just because of the 2 nation theory, Indian geography was not going to reset itself. In these 2 cases, geographical reason was the major, especially for Hyderabad surrounded by India, as part of Pakistan is infeasible. Sardar Patel knew that and did what is right and history now. Junagadh was not the same case—-access to Arabian sea is there, but again it was not a contiguous with Pakistan. Other factors might have played roles in decision making too. Do not forget the chronology of riot violence (Aug 13-19th 1947 peak ) and the nature of the riots that took place in other parts-mainly Punjab and Bengal, geographical location of 2 states; demographics of those states, the nature of India and Pakistan as states-secular democratic vs Islamic republic, you can justify those decisions. This prevented killings of thousands. Considering that India is not expansionist in nature (did not occupy Bangladesh in 1971), I will give advantage of doubt to Indian political thinkers. Sometimes it is more complex than straight comparison. I have seen many other reasons offered by what I said so far is my personal view. Looking back, Kashmiri Pundits would have been massacred while crossover to India or those who remained in Pakistan would have been converted or killed. This is no assumption and we know from those riots and reduction of Pakistan Hindu population from 15% in 1947 to 2% now. Kashmir would have gone to Pakistan later on except that events did not allow that-Lots of room for theories here.

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive
 

Maurayan

—Are you suggesting that the srilankan tamilians should accept their fate as second class citizens for all times for the foolhardiness of the ltte? or the kashmiri pundits must kiss goodbye to their hope of justice?
—You sound like those typical saudi-funded & playing up the image of ‘Oh-so-blah blah’for a pat from your Indophobic western masters – tongue wagging-
do you take responsibility of the mayhem & bloodshed that will follow by giving u kashmir? how will you counter-attack the claims of hindu fundamentalists?

Posted by Anup | Report as abusive
 

@do you take responsibility of the mayhem & bloodshed that will follow by giving u kashmir? how will you counter-attack the claims of hindu fundamentalists?
- Posted by Anup
Mauryan, I agree with Anup on this.

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive
 

Guys,

for some reason none of my comments are getting through. I replied to everyone. Long replies disappear. I am trying to see if this short response makes it.

Anup, Our government and military should make sure no blood shedding happens within our borders. SL Tamils are safe from now on. LTTE is decimated. And the govt won’t mess with Tamils again. They have been taught.

Rajeev, I do not want to hide any truths about our wrong doings when pointed at. That is all. This does not make me sympathize with our rivals. Emotions hide our wrong doings and we get busy pointing at others. All countries are devious to some extent. It is part of survival in a dangerous world. There is nothing wrong in admitting it.

 

Rajeev: If I had my way, Pakistan should never have been formed. Just because of Jinnah’s power struggle with Nehru this nation got created. Now that it was done legally through international acknowledgment, we have to go along.

This is where the Kashmir issue sticks out. None of what happened there was legal. Hari Singh had no international recognition after 1947 to sign any treaty. Pakistan sees this as a flimsy excuse for Mountbatten to send in the para troopers. Like it or not, Kashmir is a Muslim majority state, adjoining what became Pakistan. The partition agreement between India and Pakistan had to be honored and it was not. And we have come this far. Anup asked me about the bloodshed that would follow if Kashmir is let go. He does not care about the bloodshed over the past 60 years (militants, military, innocent people). So he wants to keep the status quo where further bloodshed is all right. If Kashmir is let go, the government should make sure no one is hurt. They did that when Rajeev Gandhi was assassinated. No Tamil was attacked by goons, the way Sikhs were massacred in Delhi in 1984. So the government can do it and save people. Most Kashmiri pundits have been driven away from Kashmir already. I don’t believe they would want to go back there again. May be a deal can be made where Jammu and Ladhak go to India and the rest decides to be independent or join Talibanistan.

Nothing is impossible. If India proved everyone wrong by being a single country and a democracy at that for 60 years, anything is possible. We just have to try. Emotional attitude will not solve the problem. I am not saying that we should yield in the case of Kashmir because of Pakistan’s non stop interference. Pakistan will never stop even if they get Kashmir. I am saying what I am saying because I see a degree of unfairness for Kashmir.

If the govt of India has declared Kashmir as an integral part of India, then all the special privileges should have been abolished – buying land in Kashmir, moving into Kashmir etc. This tells me clearly that there is something that is preventing our government from doing so. If you are correct, then let the govt abolish the article that gives Kashmir a special status first. Let other Indians buy land there and settle down. Otherwise, I consider it as a disputed case.

As far India’s involvement in SL, I recommend getting the links to Jain commission reports. I pasted the link and the posting did not get through.

 

Mauryan: HariSingh/1947 are much discussed and I disagree with you. So why Pundits are not in Kashmir? They will love to. Putting myself into Kashmiri Pundit’s shoes, I see myself pick up gun and start a movement against the likes of you. And/or I can gurantee you Hindu radicalist will turn into genuine terrorists. Also, why are you dividing Kashmir into 3 now. That contradicts the theory. Will India be more or less secure.

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive
 

Mauryan:Note a comparison of Muslim-Pundit in Kashmir and Sikhs-Hindus in Punjab. Even after 1984 riots, Sikhs did not resort to revenge killings inside Punjab-right choice-Punjab is peaceful. Pundits underwent unprovoked genocide/exodus in Kashmir. Muslims bros in Kashmir were mute spectators at best or actors in the crime at worst. Bad choice-Perhaps reaping what they sowed.

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive
 

Mauryan: We know the negative sides of the story. Article 370 is a testimony that India from the beginning was sincerely considering plebiscite and the free will of Kashmiris. Stupid Pakistanis spoiled everything. Diplomacy would have worked so easily.

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive
 

Rajeev: “We know the negative sides of the story. Article 370 is a testimony that India from the beginning was sincerely considering plebiscite and the free will of Kashmiris. Stupid Pakistanis spoiled everything. Diplomacy would have worked so easily.”

If India has been asking for a plebiscite, then let it be done soon. What is holding us up. The US can be brought in help evacuate the Pak military. Nativity of the people can be checked and ascertained. All outsiders can be moved out. Then hold the plebiscite. And accept the verdict.

 

Mauryan: @Emotional attitude will not solve the problem.
–Yes you are right but earlier you have been saying “no to logic and yes to emotions”.
@I am not saying that we should yield in the case of Kashmir because of Pakistan’s non stop interference. Pakistan will never stop even if they get Kashmir. I am saying what I am saying because I see a degree of unfairness for Kashmir.
-Pakistan says K-issue will stop interference. You and I know those lies. Why solve then?
Solve for Fairness to Kashmiris?–Fairness for what, Mauryan? who get contract killings done in India for K-freedom. Which Kashmiri has the balls to say–Stop Pakis, stop killing Indian innocents. India is as fair as it can get. Stop pushing. More on being fair–see my earlier message on Punjab/Kashmir comparison.

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive
 

@If India has been asking for a plebiscite, then let it be done soon. What is holding us up. The US can be brought in help evacuate the Pak military. Nativity of the people can be checked and ascertained. All outsiders can be moved out. Then hold the plebiscite. And accept the verdict.
-posted by Mauryan

–Today, there are some young Kashmiri Muslims who want to be with India (fact, how many do not know)-they know the opportunities here and they do not want to be with Pakistan (i will copy/paste a post by Kashmiri from Sringar of you have not seen his post). Alternative Indepedence, which they think will give India/Pak a playground for the games. But In Kashmir, know 70,80,90% (??) Muslims (demography changed), chances are it will not stay with India. Here lies the problem. the genuine non-Muslim population was pushed out/killed/converted. If they have stayed as such in Kashmir, there was a good chance that with all thinking and sane Muslims opting to be with india. Kashmir will stay with India. Not any more. Buffer zone you say so often is actually an extended breeding ground for terrorists/Pakistan over whom we have no control now (remember NUKES again) for mission #2 With China, Pak, Kashmir, do you not see military disadvantage to India. That was the goal of Pakistan and China all along. we need to keep our emotions in check.
Agreed, something should be done on this and declared–something short of total independence from India, perhaps autonmony. Cannot speak more on this though.

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive
 

Rajeev: Tell me why the various parties in power at the central government never looked at abolishing the special status to Indian controlled Kashmir. If they had done that and allowed others to set up businesses, own lands and migrate, I can agree that the case is closed and there is no point in opening the old chapters.

Let me tell you something about myself so that you can understand my perspective. My father went to the 1965 and 1971 wars. He was in East Pakistan when general Niazi surrendered to general Arora. He had been in charge of a unit that oversaw some of the prisoners of war.

He hardly talked about the war. But when we pressed him out of curiosity, he never showed the venom against the Pakistanis that I see amongst many Indians who have never seen the reality. He’d brush it off by saying they are humans just like us. Later on, he mentioned about a Pakistani commander who interacted with him many years later by mail. Then everything went silent. my father thought he was dead. Many years later my father met him in British Columbia, Vancouver. He was an old man now and was staying with his daughter whose husband ran some business. When we went to visit him, they both hugged each other. He kept addressing my father as “Sahib.”

My father began to tell me more now. He said Had Patel been in charge instead of Nehru, the Kashmir problem would never had arisen. Patel would have driven the Pakistani military out of all of Kashmir in 1947 and taken all of it for India. No special status would have been given. And the case would have been closed. But Nehru did not like wars. He sat preaching friendship until China over ran the Indian army in 1962. My father respected Nehru, but he did not like his defense policies. He said India had nailed Pakistan again in the 1971 war and all of Kashmir could have been taken. But the US and China spoiled that plan.

My father firmly believed that consistency is very important in decision making. If you choose plan A, then stick to it. Do not stop it half way through and switch to plan B. He was in the military and hence liked clear cut plans. He said either Nehru should have taken all of Kashmir and run a plebiscite or decided to annex the region with India. He did neither and the result is a festering problem that is getting worse by the day.

When the civil war erupted in Sri Lanka, he said India was making a big mistake by setting up training camps for the Tamils. And he turned out to be right.

 

Rajeev,Anup you are causing a great damage to indian interests by way of your one on one clarifications with Mauryan, the scared kid. On an international forum like this, his misplced thoughts of selfflagellation are not of introspective but one of masochist in nature. Just remember this not a deshi kitchen table discussion going on here.Beg you to be prudent.

Article 370 was unique in the histiry of mankind that served the purpose of fuelling terrorism in India both in JK and in Northeast. No businessman will go there, as they need a visa(well almost) in the words of a Delhi politician, to establish a business or raise a family.Their exclusion from India is thorough that they feel justified to get separated.All Kashmiri hindus want to go back there- now that they have this mauryan syndrome of phobia and selfdoubt since the time they were slaughtered not long ago, and unlike their kashmiri counterparts they take mauryan line of cowrdice instead of automatic weapons- they just cannt go back. See what Nehrus did to India we needed Patels when India is your argument.The 6 states of Northeast are now overwhelmingly christian soon the tiny number of remaining hindus will follow suit.Well done india with article 370 and its the underlying objective of preservation of cultures.

 

Azad DP, Cool it. We are not on a war zone. This is just a forum. What we talk here does nothing. Even some of the Pakistanis who write nonsensical stuff, might be nice guys if you see them in person. The internet gives a screen behind which people hide and write all kinds of things that they’d normally not speak out. We are not giving out major military secrets to anyone by discussing what we think.

Look at the Jain commission report on Tamil militancy. Google it. You will see copious mention of training camps for different Tamil resistance groups.

My point is, if a Pakistani accuses India of training terrorists in Sri Lanka, or helping the Mukti Bahini that led to the dismemberment of Pakistan, I have to take that and cannot argue. Because that was true. As an Indian, I see the reasons behind those actions. India is a huge country and it has to fight multiple conflicts for various reasons in order to keep its territorial integrity. In the case of Pakistan, it is not engaging in proxy wars with India in order to protect itself. It simply wants to dismember India due to a misguided superiority complex. And it needs some war somewhere in the vicinity to keep its over sized military engaged. There is nothing else for that country to plan.

 

Azaddp and Mauryan and Anup:
I don’t mind alternative views, including Mauryan’s and will not label them anti-Indian or such…..Let Pakistanis do that like we have seen on the forum. But definiely we need to be responsible whe when we do that.
Mauryan: India/Srilanka LTTE issue is irrelevant to K-issue. I saw the same pattern with one Pakistani who used a propaganda article on RAW’s activities in Srilanka as an evidence for RAW’s role in Baluchistan. That’s weak. You use logic as long as you are comfortable and drop it and become emotional –but sadly selectively only–for further discussion. Do not take passive Kashmiri Pundits for guaranteed and save your emotions for them too. 1-on-1 relationship with your dad and Pakistani commander is nothing to do with the larger issues of India vs Pak national policy. We all have some personal experience. Until late 80s, almost every few years, my parents/grandparents have been hosting a Pakistani Muslim family whose house my folks moved into after migrating from Pakistan–Nice Pakistani guys no problem. But this definitely provides me no reason to state Indians spit more venom against Pakistani like you posted here “But when we pressed him (your dad) out of curiosity, he never showed the venom against the Pakistanis that I see amongst many Indians who have never seen the reality.” He might be using in some context, but you agree with this –terrible on your part to put it on the forum. Please use your freedom of expression with responsibility and discretion. Do you need more terrorism and religious intolerance for convincing? With genocide in E-Pakistan by W-Pakistan in 1971 and refugee problem in India, sitting silent as bystander would have been irresponsible. We know about Nehru and your mind is clouded by emotions which needs cold logic to clear it. We never learn from the history and that’s why it repeats itself.

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive
 

Mauryan – “Pakistan will never stop even if they get Kashmir.”
Mauryan – “Kashmiri pundits have been driven away from Kashmir already. I don’t believe they would want to go back there again.”
Mauryan – “I see a degree of unfairness for Kashmir.”
Mauryan -“Anup asked me about the bloodshed that would follow if Kashmir is let go. He does not care about the bloodshed over the past 60 years (militants, military, innocent people). So he wants to keep the status quo where further bloodshed is all right.”

—Yes, I care a damn! Cowards & weak-kneed Indians like you are responsible for these mess for not having the nerves to hold on to what’s rightfully ours, no longer will we be bullied, no Kashmir even on the dead bodies of a billion Indians… may sound as an emotional outburst,to rational fools- but it’s the rise of an assertive India after being tortured , pillaged , ravaged for the last 1000 yrs.
This coward & slave mentality legacy of the Mauryan-types shall not be handed down to future generations , whatever the cost, we bear..

Posted by anup | Report as abusive
 

azaddp
“Rajeev,Anup you are causing a great damage to indian interests by way of your one on one clarifications with Mauryan,”

— The indian interest is not so fragile that it’ll scatter in an frank op-ed, indians are an argumentative lot, indian integrity is an effortless reality & freedom of speech the birth-right of every human being…

Posted by Anup | Report as abusive
 

Azaddp

–’Article 370′ is inconsequential & defunct, the only purpose it serves is for the RSS brigade malicious propaganda.

Posted by anup | Report as abusive
 

ANUP
Article 370 is responsible for Buddhists’ misery and Cong govt has brushed it under the carpet as always has been:
………………The Ladakh Council leaders have in their memorandum, talked about the need for saving the Buddhists from the dangers of subversive politics based on religious conversion. After having felt secured by Article 370, Kashmiris have faced their guns on the Buddhists with the ultimate aim of converting them to Islam. The Kashmiri Muslim-dominated State Government is encouraging conversion of Buddhists to Islam. Its aim is to reduce the Buddhist population in comparison to Muslims. In the recent years the rate of conversion has increased. Fundamentalists receive support from the State Government for carrying out this merciless conversion. With the help of money and powerful propaganda several hundred Buddhist girls have been converted to Islam. Behind this campaign for religious conversion is the idea of Islamisation of Ladakh and uniting the Valley on the basis of the politics of separatism and subversion.
The then Governor of the state, Jagmohan, had given a serious thought to the problems of Ladakh and had formulated and started many schemes but the Congress rulers in Delhi think that their playing vote chess on the basis of their policy of appeasement is the biggest contribution of their life. Congressmen, who had left the party, were unable to give up their tradition.

Therefore, Jagmohan too was made a victim of the chess moves of appeasement and vote. After relinquishing his post, Ladakh again witnessed the same politics of subversion. The practice of converting the innocent Buddhists to Islam has been initiated again. Kashmiri Muslims purchase land and other property in Ladakh and in the same way the conspiracy of increasing the Muslim population in Jammu is underway. It means Muslims of Kashmir can settle in Jammu and Ladakh but Hindus from Jammu and Ladakh cannot think of doing the same in Kashmir. The condition of Jammu and Kashmir state and the Hindu society is the result of the policy of appeasement of Muslims of the Congress politics. ……………….read for yourself
http://www.kashmir-information.com/Conve rtedKashmir/Chapter25.html

 

Anup,

I see no difference between you and the Taliban. Both of you believe in violent means to achieve your ends. I have come across many like you who try to win by shouting others down or intimidate them. As far as I am concerned, in India, I have the rights to express what I want. If some groups protest against Indian military or police for human rights abuse, that does not make them unpatriotic. By screaming at the top of your voice emotionally does not make you patriotic either. Your reaction can cause more damage to the country than mine.

Rajeev: I do not understand what exactly your point is. You are trying to tell me that I am wrong in saying Kashmir issue not resolved. Just like my logic does not convince you, yours does not convince me either. All the talk of blood shed etc are the consequences of indecision, wrong decisions and wrong moves by both India and Pakistan. You need to learn to accommodate others’ views. I am not being callous towards Kashmiri pundits. Those who are in power need to make a goal of resolving the issue once in for all and move towards it. So far, as I see it, the Kashmir issue has been convenient not only for the Pakistanis, but also for the Indian politicians. Having an enemy like Pakistan seems to help some political parties in India. That is probably why the Kashmir issue was never resolved and people are losing their lives.

Let me tell you this much. I am not alone in my views. There are many who share my views. But we let history happen. People learn history, but never learn from it because of emotions involved.

 

Rajeev and Anup

You will get replies form Mustaq Mauryan which will make you regret you ever addressed this characterless dude. Go analyze yourselves his post addressing me below. His objective is a smear campaign on a largely onesided blog. He is an antiindian. He and his father cozy up with Pakis, he is more Mustaq as his first name says than Mauryan as his last name. Dhar and Bhatt are both terrorists from Srinagar; names mean nothing….. wake up people.

My father, when he was young, wore uniform for his country just to let you know.

 

Anup, Rajeev
RE: Musq Mauryan

strange it seems I posted to you both my blog before MUSTAQ MAURYANs one appeared. I hate to be right with my crystal ball predictions.His behaviour is so very predictable.Anita and myself did not confront Mustaq anymore as we realized he is hiding under his penname.So long as you both go on with masochist behaviour you will be beaten by this character. As Mustaq says you want to play by his rules so that he will have fun playing with you.Mustaq Mauryan- how long you will pretend pal come out in the open.

Read his posts -how connivingly he continued his anti Indian Jihad.Mustaq Mauryan:You are in N.America we both know.Tell us you are not a Muslim swearing by Mohammed, your prophet.

 

Azad DP writes: “Read his posts -how connivingly he continued his anti Indian Jihad.Mustaq Mauryan:You are in N.America we both know.Tell us you are not a Muslim swearing by Mohammed, your ”

You must be very proud of Nathuram Godse. Based on your writings, you feel the same way as he did towards Gandhi. He believed that Gandhi worked for the Muslims and shot him. Well, I am no Gandhi and my identity hardly matters. Every time I am asked to adhere to what my pen name stands for. Well, go back and revise your history lessons. Chandra Gupta was not the only Mauryan. His grandson Asoka was also one. And he turned away from his favorite violent path. His was the largest empire in the subcontinent ranging from Afghanistan today all the way close to the South. And he preached peace. Buddhism spread all over the East under his sponsorship. All the people we are having difficulty loving in today’s Pakistan and Afghanistan were Buddhists before they converted to Islam. So I am proud of choosing the proper pen name. That is the Mauryan I associate myself with. Why it sounds like a South Indian name? The other pen names are taken.

Anyway, continue with your ranting. I thought only people from Pakistan were reactive and emotional. I stand corrected. No wonder the crook Mr. Zardari said that there is a Pakistani in every Indian. I see that here clearly. I do not like the Taliban, whether they are Muslims or Indians who are as fanatical. I will fight both of them.

 

Mauryan:
First off, I damn care who/from where you are—real name or pen name. Your last few messages have turned me off.

Your dad in army is does not provide you any more insight than I get from my cousin who is a wing cmdr/CO young pilot in IAF and studied in defence services staff College or from his dad who fought 1965 war.

@You need to learn to accommodate others’ views.
–So you think I have not been accommodating your views. You are such an unbalanced son of a gun. I explicitly said so that I am ready to change my position and made it sure that I change my position as much as I could and did at one time (suggesting autonomy).

@All the talk of blood shed etc are the consequences of indecision, wrong decisions and wrong moves by both India and Pakistan.
– So will your decision stop bloodshed or will it increase further. You already said no to that. While you criticize Nehru (I do too), what have you learnt from his decisions. You are neither a total Gandhian nor Patel—you are confused. You say Kashmir will not stop Pakistanis, yet you continue to have no doubt that you are right. You use “right to freedom of expression” as often as Pakistanis use the word NUKE and both of you fail to be responsible.

@I am not being callous towards Kashmiri pundits.
-when was the last time you showed your little emotional side to the Kashmiri pundits in your long messages. You have enough time and space to talk about SriLanka and Sikhs, Uttranchal, Chattisgarh, but not K-Pundits. Mauryan the # of affected K-Pundits is half million

You have given blanket statements such as that Indians spit more venom against Pakistanis than vice-versa. I know at least one example that is you: In one of your posts you taunted Pakistani peace deal (or some other such action) by saying Islam means surrender and I was the one to request you to not give such anti-religious statements for which you have an answer that “Islam does mean surrender” (to GOD). Nice explanation when asked but not meant that way when you said to Paki bloggers. Point is you are sentinel of neither Muslims, nor Kashmiris or care about fallouts of your views on the country. You want a toy and one way or another you want to have it based on no logic and selective emotions, yet you feel you are right.

You can keep on expressing your valuable opinions— there are many Pakistani takers perhaps. But this is probably my last message to you over this issue.

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive
 

Mauryan

“I see no difference between you and the Taliban. Both of you believe in violent means to achieve your ends.”

—The prob. Lies in your ‘holier than thou’ self delusion & your IQ level which is abysmally low – Taliban is a violent force, we Indians are defending what’s rightfully ours from violent forces, the rest of your post is sheer mumbo-jumbo, your logic sucks… & kashmir is an integral part of India – sayin so, i’m excersing my right to free speech under the charter of expression of freedom!

Posted by Anup | Report as abusive
 

Freedom of Expression!

Posted by anup | Report as abusive
 

Azaddp

— Inspite of intense protests from Ambedkar, Patel – the emotional fool Nehru did the greatest damage to our nation by dividing it on linguistic lines, instead of letting it be as it was orginally -i.e. mewar / vidharba / saurashtra / Bombay state / vijayanagar / Hyderabad etc… now the damage is done & to a large extent irreversible,the only remedy create smaller states – & let the centre take care of macro functions – Army / GST / railways… get out of PSU’s & let each state be an autonomous entity with extremely limited or preferably no interference from the centre… judicary should be more strengthened & absolutely autonomous… inquisionist’s / proselytizers need to be tackled & neutralized intelligently & quietly – making an issue of it is detrimental for the larger interest of the nation.

Posted by Anup | Report as abusive
 

Rajeev: Thanks for the sermon. Here is my last reply as well.

1. This is not your forum. You do not own it. You do not make the rules for others. This is for everyone to express what they want. If it appears like garbage to you, so be it.

2. Do expect others to fall in line with you. That is emotional. And emotional people cannot expect logic from others. I am not here to justify everything to you.

3. You suddenly felt a lot for the 155 Indian Muslims when I made a remark about surrender. Yet you did not care about my father’s contribution. Just because my views antagonize you, you cannot choose to be abusive on one matter and be very caring in another.

4. No one has any valid data to claim that they are right on many political matters. It all is matter of which side of the fence you are on. You go to Pakistani forums where a lot more of them write than here, your “valid” arguments will disappear into thin air.

5. I am not posting my views to convince and convert anyone. Stick to what you think is right. Let everyone shape their views if they want to.

6. I have clashed with a variety of people on various issues and I am used to insults and abuses. When people run out of ideas, they resort to foul language and intimidation. As far as I am concerned, they are as effective as darts hitting a rhino’s rear end. I am not singling you out here. I am referring to the others as well.

7. If my views hurt you, I am sorry. That’s all I can say. No one can tell me what to write. I will write what I think is right.

 

Mauryan
“I have clashed with a variety of people on various issues and I am used to insults and abuses.”

—pity they had to first go thru the ordeal of ‘issues’ with you & then respond in the only civilized manner beffiting you…

Posted by Anup | Report as abusive
 

Mauryan, Mustaq.

My psychoanalysis about Mustaq -they often play (humengously) larger than life roles wrapped up under sheets in dark bedrooms –proved accurate when he almost rechristened himself with Gandhi, Emperors CGMaurya, Ashoka and what not; Yes these dudes have had a violent and traumatic child hood, I wish I could help him especially if he is here in USA. He thought he would get loudest applause mentioning his family’s military background; I never thought that I shd declare my father’s service history. I have my serious reservations if Mustaq is from a military family, if at all he is, then is a disgrace to men in uniform.

The Paks will continue to engage in antiindian activity, falsely claiming a victim status urging sympathy from muslim countries and west alike, as its local contributory role fulfilling the global caliphate agenda of muslims. See whats happening to Buddhists in Ladakh, India- a systematic conversions and an obscene persecution of this hapless minority goes on under states supervision. Wow- What kind of secularism India has for its citizens. American tax dollars are poured into this abyss called Pak and Afghan. At least it is partly justified to entertain the latter which is in its infantile democracy stage. As for Pak- 60 yrs is way too late to repeat same treatment- cancer will not respond to multivitamins, instead an aggressive therapy may increase survival rate. The 12-15 billions poured down the drain is a huge disservice to American tax payers. Chinese, Russians, Europe can join US to pressurize and modify the curriculum in madarassas, which is what needed in long term, after initial military successes.

 

Mauryan:

I changed my mind and here it is:
@1. This is not your forum. You do not own it. You do not make the rules for others. This is for everyone to express what they want. If it appears like garbage to you, so be it.—All true. express the garbage.

@2. Do expect others to fall in line with you. That is emotional. And emotional people cannot expect logic from others. I am not here to justify everything to you.
-I did not know I am talking to someone who will not change this position: “I know that my views on K-issue are not going to change a thing in the region, neither will it stop Pakistan from spreading terrorism in India, and in fact it might be worse, but I will not change my position since freedom of expression is my birthright”.

@3. You suddenly felt a lot for the 155 Indian Muslims when I made a remark about surrender. Yet you did not care about my father’s contribution. Just because my views antagonize you, you cannot choose to be abusive on one matter and be very caring in another.

–I am consistent. Lost context of 155 Indian Muslims. First time I advised you not to attack Islam–makes sense to me. Second time @1971 E.Pak. I did not abuse anyone. stop this spin game. I was wondering at your judiciousness to quote a statement on the forum from your dad (just one person’s views), meaning you agree that Indians spit more venom against Pakistanis. Note: I defended his position saying “he might have some context” but was apalled at you for putting this up on the forum–generlization. I know the reason now–freedom of expression. BTW I never criticize army/army person-words are not enough for their sacrifices in war and peace time.

@4. No one has any valid data to claim that they are right on many political matters. It all is matter of which side of the fence you are on. You go to Pakistani forums where a lot more of them write than here, your “valid” arguments will disappear into thin air.
–So did your valid arguments disappear into thin air on Pakistani forums? or were they loved by everyone on those Pakistani forums?

@5. I am not posting my views to convince and convert anyone. Stick to what you think is right. Let everyone shape their views if they want to.
-………………..

@6. I have clashed with a variety of people on various issues and I am used to insults and abuses. When people run out of ideas, they resort to foul language and intimidation. As far as I am concerned, they are as effective as darts hitting a rhino’s rear end. I am not singling you out here. I am referring to the others as well.
-Do not forget to refer to yourself.

@7. If my views hurt you, I am sorry. That’s all I can say. No one can tell me what to write. I will write what I think is right.
-Your views scare me.

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive
 

@You will get replies form Mustaq Mauryan which will make you regret you ever addressed this characterless dude. Go analyze yourselves his post addressing me below. His objective is a smear campaign on a largely onesided blog. He is an antiindian. He and his father cozy up with Pakis, he is more Mustaq as his first name says than Mauryan as his last name. Dhar and Bhatt are both terrorists from Srinagar; names mean nothing….. wake up people.
- Posted by Azaad dp

Azaad dp:
Internet/blogging are great mode of communication and let people express their views without hindrance. I like this because you come to know of people who in person are unable to express themselves with such freedom for political correctness sake. Smear campaigns and raidly prolifeeating anti-India propaganada sites has not changed world’s views about India.
Thanks for your link.

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive
 

To all the clowns:

As soon as the Pakistanis go silent, you guys pick another common enemy from within and start beating around him. I am no Pakistani. I am one among you and as a result your insults will not make me silent. I will voice my concerns and opinions where I see fit. Political truths differ depending on the perspectives of the individuals. Sometimes we see together on some issues and sometimes we do not. I would never say you are wrong in your views. I will offer my counter points and you offer yours. But try not to get emotional and carried away. Some of you are indulging in personal insults. These attempts will not drive me away.

Here is what you all must remember when considering India-Pakistan issues – Those who live in glass houses, should try not to throw stones at each other. There are some valid points from our side and so is the case from their side. We will bring them forth here and share them. Take what you like and leave what you do not like. Pakistan has a bag load of history for which it can be taken for trial. So does India. So does every other country. What I discuss here are what I think are fair. I cannot speak for you and I do not want you to speak for myself either. Writing one’s opinions on a harmless forum like this is not tantamount to betrayal of one’s nation. We are wrong where we are wrong. You may not agree with me on issues I consider as right or wrong. That does not mean that you should try to force it on everyone who has a different view, calling me a commie, Muslim fanatic etc. They will not change my stance. I am not being adamant here. The arguments provided are not convincing enough for me.

Anyway, I enjoy writing on this forum and like reading others’ comments as well. Whether you like it or not, I will be writing my views and they may be different from you. Sorry if it irks.

 

Here is an interesting web site regarding Kashmir. Read those posts and it might help cool your noses a bit.

http://kashmir-truth-be-told.blogspot.co m/

 

mauryan
“We are wrong where we are wrong.”
—No hassles in accepting this, but the language that you speak is similar to the propaganda of homegrown islamic fundamentalists, the reasons you cite are the same malicious allegations of outsiders & enemies with heinous underlying motives aimed at harming our national interest – you represent falsity, nothing constructive rather like the mao supporting commies – thus ‘the enemy within’

Posted by anup | Report as abusive
 

Kar Sevak writes: “—No hassles in accepting this, but the language that you speak is similar to the propaganda of homegrown islamic fundamentalists, the reasons you cite are the same malicious allegations of outsiders & enemies with heinous underlying motives aimed at harming our national interest – you represent falsity, nothing constructive rather like the mao supporting commies – thus ‘the enemy within’

If people are branded as ‘enemy within’ for voicing alternate opinions, then everyone inside India can be branded as such:

- Those support caste based quotas for political gains
- Those who hide behind unions for not doing work
- Those who seek bribe for even doing their jobs
- Those who bribe others to get past others
- Those who stage riots to gain political power
- Those who declare emergency to over ride court orders
- Those who swindle the country by signing defense contracts with countries that supply inferior weapons
- Those who use torture innocent people to confess to crimes that they did not commit
- Those who smuggle arms, contraband, drugs into the country
- Those who indulge in flesh trade
- Those who use bonded labor

And so on. These are much worse as enemies of the state than someone who simply voices his opinion. I am not an active member of any organization that works under ground in subversive activities. I support my country where it matters. But I will stand up for what is right and criticize or condemn what I consider as not right. And I will have no hesitation in voicing it.

 

Mauryan, I have been reading this blog. Why your mind is so agitated? In response to a simple statement, you post a laundry list of ills in Indian system, most of which is true but is exteremenly irrelevant. This is perhaps the reason of you being questioned as an anti-Indian… which I don;t think you are, but you end being so. I am refering to your last few comments and also of others. It is all your choice how you deal and be defensive or over-defensive.

azzad dp: It will be nice if the person with different opinion is not labeled as a Pakistani or…..We never know who is who.

Sorry if I hurt someone.

My few cents…

Posted by Vikram | Report as abusive
 

Vikram,

I have no issues with anyone. What I do not like is absolute intolerance to alternate views and these guys start hurling mud right away if we do not agree with them. One of the clowns is calling me a Commie for everything I write now. Since this only a forum, I sometimes have to put them in perspective and show them how they treat others. No Pakistani ventures into this forum nowadays because they get shouted out by these guys. No country is perfect and there are lot of policy decisions which have resulted in more agony than solution. Everyone of us would have made decisions if we were in power and they may not be perfect solution either. But voices must be heard. These guys are assuming that everything I say is anti Indian. I do not need their certification stamp for my allegiance. Even Gandhi did not have full support in India. Many warped people believed he was pro-Muslim and tried to assassinate him on many occasions. Finally one of them succeeded. If these guys cannot stand alternative views on an electronic forum, I cannot imagine how these people will be in reality. Or the ordinary people who can be energized by such people.

Anyway, the insults on the internet are expected and itg is part of the game. But everyone must realize that what they throw at others comes back at them. That is fair game.

 

Mauryan
“voicing alternate opinions,”

—Dude, that’s hilarious, The one’s listed by you….you lack the basic reasoning to discriminate, anyways they are a lesser evil lot compared to your commie breed…

Posted by anup | Report as abusive
 

At this very moment there is respite in Kashmir because of what is happening in Swat. No more Pakistani flag wavers because they do not want Kashmir to be like Swat. I find it hard to believe that Muslim-Kashmiris want to be part of Pakistan when Pakistan SOLD part of Kashmir to China (the so-called all weather friend). Plus, they recently conceded to the Taliban in Swat. So, Muslim-Kashmiris are remaining quiet until Pakistan can pull itself out of its own mess.

Jammu and Kashmir will NEVER be independent. If the Indian leave; the Pakistanis move in claiming victory followed by the Taliban mullahs and the Taliban.

If the Indians and Pakistanis leave the WHOLE region of POK and IOK. Therefore Jammu and Kashmir become independent then the Taliban mullahs and the Taliban will move in.

If Pakistan ever get Jammu & Kashmir then I know these Pakistan loving Kashmiris will be at the front of the crowd claiming VICTORY, VICTORY, VICTORY!!! Those people who wanted it to remain part of India will leave and take their businesses with them. India will close off the border, permanently. However, all the prime and pukka land will be taken by the so-called glorious Mullah leaders and Taliban and their heirs will inherit it and not even work for a living. They will put on wonderfully colourful shows to the world to show how peaceful they are and what great developments they have made. When most developments were already in placeand made by India (e.g. trains, roads and the airport). There will be supressions of freedoms that they did not expect. More people will leave Kashmir, but they cannot go to Pakistan because its no different and besides Kashmir will be a Pakistani state. They will be living in total regret. The whole territory will become a Jihadi play ground and safe haven for terrorists.

The Mullahs and Taliban will sit on their backsides and get fat boasting about their past glories with the odd trip to their Dubai luxury villa that built by some poor Kashmiri (Indian or Pakistani) on slave wages that he sends back to his wife and kids so they can buy winter fuel to stem the load shedding. The ordinary man on the street will not benefit from it at all. It may become another Swat. Kashmiris will start cursing the USA for not providing money to economically help Kashmir while they stand in line for work visas to the USA so they can earn money. However, it will never be enough because the government (and Mullahs) will take thier cuts (10%). Before you know it, they will be over 60 years old and sitting in a cafe in Rawalpindi telling stories of your past so-called glories with the same pride you had in your youth. No different to the old men who invaded Kashmir in 1947-1948.

A great man with the same name as you once said:

A man who views the world the same at fifty as he did at twenty has wasted thirty years of his life. (Mohammed Ali).

Posted by bulletfish | Report as abusive
 

Anup, Mustaq Mauryan

anup

commies in their own stupid way are patriots like the ones you see in India, urge you – dont insult them calling them * mauryan*

mustaq has a mind twisted in so many knots, even radical surgey cannt fix him up.

on a Serious note: some measure of intervention is urgently needed to save buddism in Ladakh( mustaq please dont answer)

 

Monkey brigade volunteer writes: “commies in their own stupid way are patriots like the ones you see in India, urge you – dont insult them calling them * mauryan*”

Dear clowns,

I know and understand that it is hard for you to follow things written for intelligent people. It is all right. Keep working on it and one day you will improve. Your writings equal in intensity and stupidity to that of Pakistanis themselves. When Zardari mentioned that there is an Indian in every Pakistani, he related that to your kind. You are no different from Umair, Amir Ali and other Pakistani zealots who comment on this forum. They are on one side of the fence and you are on the other. If the fence is lifted, one cannot tell the difference between you and them. I treat all of you with the same respect. Limited in knowledge and wisdom, and lacking in civil manners, your kind unfortunately makes up the majority in the sub-continent. Otherwise the place would have advanced long ago. But that is the way things are. India is unfortunately filled with filth like you and your fellow clowns. Keep throwing mud and it won’t make a difference to me.

 

Mauryan Mustaq
I will fight both of them- ….. Mauryan writes

I did not want to respond to you directly these past couple of days, the reason-
I know well… indeed very well …the Indian history, as its my hobby to read it- as far back as Bhishmas India – and beyond.
The latter (Bhishma), the famous son of India (Bhumata), laid down his arms when Shikhandi showed up, that’s who you are Mauryan- *Shikhandi*.
My 2 cents buddy – Dont fight the both, instead, chose one; the kinder one, if you ask me.
I was almost a communist in college days, then I believed in congress till your * yuvraaz* surfaced, and, now I regret how immature I was.
Im happy to live in USA as I have an excuse- I cannot vote there anymore, to make a difference in your sonias India
Vedas and Gita didn’t preach hatred. But remember- Gita was sung, in a battlefield, encouraging elimination of evil .
Your mantra of inaction and infinite wait has outlived its utility.you will be a bitter oldman and alone. so, change, yes u can.

 

I feel Washington and US does a very superficial job of dealing with Kashmir. Modern Indians won’t want to read up about the freedom struggle and the harsh poverty endured by Indians. Hardened leaders of newly liberated India, used to spending a long prison time – for a movement spread over all of India, supposedly uniting all strands of religion, class and sects – would have been suitably appalled by the breakup of India and the level of violence that ensured. The self-serving interest of the Pakistanis would have been too much to bear!!

All the parts that remained in that entity are now blessed with rising posperity and democracy at national and state-level. At the onset of 1966 war, irregular Pakistani forces infiltrated Kashmir, with a view to win the hearts and minds of Kashmiri and set-off a local uprising. This was to be coupled with a military push to separate the “head” from the rest of India. But it failed when Kashmiri refused to back the Pakistanis and infact turned against them. This said a lot about where Kashmiris wanted to be.

In my view, Indian government has been very soft on the issue of repatriating the displaced Pandits – or their descendants – that had been push out due to discriminatory violence. In fact, GOI/ Kashmir state should encourage people to settle in Kashmir in much the same way that Kashmiri can settle in India.

Unfortunately, development in Himalayan states has been quite hazadous, as seen by the difficulty of linking rail from Jammu northwards. These areas are inaccesible in winter/ difficult terrain, and prone to seismic activity. However, they retain their natural beauty and have sustainable populations / abundant natural resources.

Pakistan has lost most of the advantages it had from the British Raj. (I read a recent Pakistani commentator – in dailytimes- saying since Pakistan had most of the irrigated land at Independence, it deserved most of the water flowing from India!!). Its divisive policies – based on religion, its shovanistic stance v-v India, Kashmir, Bangladesh, and its vehemence to cultivate China/US/ Arab has lead to it ruination. From an Indian prospective, Pakistan should mind its business and then good luck with Chinese/ US/ Arabic friends.

India needs to improve the lives of ALL of its people. It’s starting to do that via “National Projects” but there is too much to do here. It has to provide justice to the displaced people of Kashmir (sooner or later).

Posted by A Agarwal | Report as abusive
 

Vikram,
Re: Mauryan
This pusillanimous intellectual is spinning everything and suffocating the country he pretends he is defending on these international forums. I know for a fact, the lawmakers in west read these columns, especially the comments part. This joker reads and accepts Zardari as his mentor and, tomorrow he will side mushi urging him to take over India when that snake visits india later this month. Paks send Ak 47 wielding terrorists across, as they sure mean business; they don’t waste time debating/ writing on these columns. mmmmmmh …my..my..he sure misses them, so much he started looking for them on pak blogs now. This masochist thinks he is an indian version of dalailama. Wake up, while you can Mauryan and have a life.

 

mauryan
“there is an Indian in every Pakistani,”

—well maybe, care a damn – there’s nothin paki in indians-but it’s traitors like you who nuture a pakistani in their bosom that’s dangerous.

Posted by anup | Report as abusive
 

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