The Pakistan Army and “the history of the stick”

February 27, 2009

In his book on the Pakistan Army, South Asia expert Stephen Cohen quotes a senior lieutenant-general as warning the late Zulfikar Ali Bhutto against using the military to control political opposition. “If you use a stick too often, the stick will take over,” Cohen quotes the general as saying. “This has always been the history of the stick.”

There’s no sign yet of the Pakistan Army reverting to its usual role of wielding the big stick. But with the police out in force to quell protests in Punjab over a Supreme Court ruling excluding former prime minister Nawaz Sharif and his brother Shahbaz from office, the obvious question to ask is whether we are about to see a repeat of the old cycle in which security forces are called out to restore order and end up taking over altogether. Indeed, the Pakistan Army’s first involvement in politics is generally dated to the 1953 imposition of martial law in Lahore – where protests erupted on Thursday over the court ruling.  Sharif has blamed President Asif Ali Zardari, widower of the late Benazir Bhutto, for the ruling.

Historical parallels can, of course, be misleading.  Pakistan Army chief, General Ashfaq Kayani, has made it clear he wants to keep the military out of politics. He is currently visiting the United States, where the administration of President Barack Obama has repeatedly stressed its commitment to civilian democracy in Pakistan.

And Zardari, who has imposed governor’s rule in Punjab to replace an administration run by Shabaz Sharif, may yet find an accommodation with the powerful Sharif brothers over the issues that divide them — the restoration of judges sacked by former president Pervez Musharraf along with Zardari’s retention of presidential powers he inherited when Musharraf quit last year. Or we might be set for a long period of political manoeuvring between Pakistan’s bickering politicians which drags on for weeks or months.

Yet you have to wonder how well, and for how long, Kayani’s resolve to keep the army out of politics will survive if unrest in Punjab escalates. Punjab is not only the most populous province in Pakistan and heartland of popular support for the Sharif brothers – it is where the Pakistan Army has its roots.  A Taliban insurgency against the Pakistan government has already spread from the country’s tribal areas on the borders with Afghanistan into its North West Frontier Province (NWFP). The Taliban have also been blamed for suicide bombings in Punjab and according to this article in the News could reach further into the province by picking up fresh recruits among the country’s poor.

Pakistan is already on edge after the government agreed a ceasefire with Taliban militants in the Swat valley in NWFP in exchange for promising to introduce sharia law. Now with this political confrontation blowing up between Zardari and the Sharif brothers, events are moving very fast.

“The two parties are going for the kill,” the Daily Times said in an editorial. “As in the past, they might both come a cropper. This time, however, there is real danger that the state they are trampling upon in the process may join the failed ranks of Somalia, Sudan, Congo and Zimbabwe.”

To return to the history of the stick, here is what Cohen quoted a Pakistani writer as saying in a book published in 1963:

“The more (the Army) wanted to stand aloof and devote its energies to the real duties of any army, the more it found itself entangled in civil tasks. Hard pressed governments were forced to call for its assistance in times of grave natural and man-made calamities, which became increasingly common in Pakistan.”

Are we heading for a repetition of history? Or do we assume all the players involved have learned from experience?

(Reuters photos: vehicles torched in Lahore and file photo of General Ashfaq Kayani)

Comments

Nadeem:
@Pakistan Army is one of the best Armies in World.. ……..
–According to which ranking :-)

@but india knows, Pakistan can do any and all harms to india.. and Pakistan is the only hurdle, only and only hurdle in india’s way to become a regional power..
–Yes India knows Pakistan army is always thinking of India 24/7 leaving no time to think about Taliban & terrorists who attack Pak. Pak army can do nothing to India –Put your text book knowldge into trash. India thinks Pakistan is nobody-perhaps a little nuisance in the neighbourhood.

@Pakistan is created by God..
–Created by insufficient imagination of Jinnah. Perhaps proves GOD does not exist otherwise such a blunder would not happened. But it is good for India.

@and will conquer once again india,
–Again?– When was the last time Pak conquer India. Time to wake up. :-)

@as you guyz know, india is 1000 yrs ruled by the people from areas now called pakistan.. so in next 15 to 25 years delhi will be mine.. Paksitan Army is the Army of God..
–People from that area are in fact called Hindus and yes it was ruled by them and even Afghanistan too-but peacefully ruled. Can you ask your GOD-created Army to take care of innocents, not Taliban.

–And Nadeem: If you get your DNA sample checked, the chances are your ancestors were non-Muslims–converted by Sword (and all means you do want to know) and you are feeling proud of that. It is time to cry than feel so proud of the brutal history.

Wake up for your own sake.

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive
 

Pakistan is a failed state – the current events will prove many that this country born out of hatred will be another BanglaDesh – cut into a few countries – Lets hope for the sake of their people this happens sooner than later – All will benefit out of this especially their civil society

Posted by Abdul | Report as abusive
 

Rajeev wrote:
“India thinks Pakistan is nobody-perhaps a little nuisance in the neighbourhood”

Rajeev, India better realize it is bordered on the west by a 170 million strong muslim nuclear power, Pakistan. If in the world there is any muslim country with a highly trained army, deadly and sophisticated weapons systems and missile capability it is Pakistan.

As long as Pakistan exists India will never be able to act like a regional bully.

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive
 

Global watcher wrote:
“By God, India will flatten Pakistan, if Pakistan tries to bother us again.”

Global watcher stop your damn non-sense. Pakistan is a nuclear power armed with lethal nuclear weapons. India simply doesnt have the balls to mess with Pakistan. I dont care if you call Pakistan a beggar country, Pakistan has enough money to manufacture atom bombs and maintain them and use them at the time of need to flatten India ten times.

Also, if you were to do some math, I am sure there are more beggars in India than in Pakistan. What did the movie slumdog millionaire highlight? with HIV on the rise, with poverty stricken dalit low caste hindus living in misery in India, Pakistanis are much better off in Pakistan.

Finally, Pakistan Army is surely one of the best in the world. India was runing for life in Kargil 1999, why didnt Indian Army attack Pakistan during 2001-02 border standoff? boy we have an Army. Gen. Kayani is on the record stating Pakistan can respond to any Indian attack “with-in minutes.”

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive
 

Umair
“Rajeev, India better realize it is bordered on the west by a 170 million strong muslim nuclear power, Pakistan. If in the world there is any muslim country with a highly trained army, deadly and sophisticated weapons systems and missile capability it is Pakistan.”

—Nevertheless, it’s worthiness still remains of nuisance value only.
“As long as Pakistan exists India will never be able to act like a regional bully.”

— Do not worry, we’ll see to it that it does not ‘exists’ for long & what to bully you pakis, who are not only bullied by the americans but also bombed & then like obedient d@#s you lick their boots – for a few dollars more, no dignity at all…

Posted by Anup | Report as abusive
 

umair
“Pakistan is a nuclear power armed with lethal nuclear weapons.”

—We don’t believe you, prove it to us – try those sub-standard chinese nukes on islamabad , karachi, then we’ll see the result & decide whether you really have real nukes- because even taliban is not interested in buying them from you guys, even they have doubts- lol

Posted by Anup | Report as abusive
 

@Umair – “Finally, Pakistan Army is surely one of the best in the world. India was runing for life in Kargil 1999, why didnt Indian Army attack Pakistan during 2001-02 border standoff? boy we have an Army. Gen. Kayani is on the record stating Pakistan can respond to any Indian attack “with-in minutes.”

- I thought Musharaff was on record stating Kargil occupation was not by Pakistani army but some militants ?? So much for going on record of pakistani army cheifs and leaders !!

Posted by Anitha | Report as abusive
 

Umair,
Slumdog Millionaire won a string of Oscars 3 for 2 Indians, while 1 Pakistan Army LOST Swat to the Taliban. Your army is only good for bending over and taking it up the Khyber Pass.

Yes, we have beggars in India, BUT our whole country has not gone begging to Uncle Saudi Arabia, that nice Mr. China or the IMF…TWICE.

Why don’t you start to contribute something tangible to the world instead of stating that you are the best in the world. You have done nothing of the sort to proof it.

In India, we received the Mumbai attacks from 10 of YOUR citizens, then went to win 3 Oscars.

PM Monmohan Singh steered India out of an economic crisis as Finance Minister while Pakistan went to the IMF for loans.

You are all mouth and no trousers.

The reason India did not attack further in Kargil is because that is what Pakistan wanted. A full provocation and all out war just to prove what a big boy it is.

Posted by bulletfish | Report as abusive
 

@Umair, Nadeem

Have a look at the link below my friends. That is your precious general Niazi signing a declaration of surrender to India in 1971. You guys always start these wars and lose any moral ground as well as losing the war itself.

http://bdshots.com/v/Bangladesh/1971/Sig ning+the+instrument+of+surrender-+Pakist ani+General+Niazi+and+Commander+of+Combi ned+Indian+and+Bangladesh+Freedom+Fighte rs+Fo.html

Please do not provoke India into a war. The next time, someone will post a picture of Gen. Kayani signing a surrender to India.

Is there any sane, rational, calm voices left in Pakistan, which are not members of the FLAT EARTH SOCIETY?

India will not be provoked into war by a bunch of simpleton stone throwers. India is ancient, and wise in its intelligence and response.

I guarantee you, if Pakistan tries anything again, Pakistan will suffer much worse than being in a short little surrender type of scenario war. Pakistan will receive head caving, knee smashing diplomacy from all sides. That alone, will politically destabilize Pakistan ever further. No more supplies will be given to Pakistani army. All of your arms, planes and munitions will be unrepairable and site like rusted junk.

Please say only constructive things that will contribute to removal of extremist Islam and terrorist training camps, which neither of you refute, nor acknowledge, nor speak out against.

Please learn to leave God out of political discussions. Religion and politics and War in the rest of the sane, free-thinking world are not uttered in the same sentence.

Posted by Global Watcher | Report as abusive
 

Umair,
Pakistan army will keep on asking for more money because in this economic climate it will carry on play victim and passive supporter of terrorism. Zardari will keep stating that if Pakistan fails, the world fails speech over and over like a broken record.

Pakistanis (even in the diaspora) will soon stop calling themselves Pakistani. If asked where they are from, they will reply that they are Punjabi, Sindhi, Pashtun, Baluchi, Swati…etc.

It reminds me of the time after the Iranians stormed the US embassy in Tehran and kidnapped the Americans. Most Iranians started saying, “No, I am not Iranian, I am Persian.”

Posted by bulletfish | Report as abusive
 

Umair:
@Finally, Pakistan Army is surely one of the best in the world. India was runing for life in Kargil 1999, why didnt Indian Army attack Pakistan during 2001-02 border standoff? boy we have an Army. Gen. Kayani is on the record stating Pakistan can respond to any Indian attack “with-in minutes.”
–Oh Umair, are we still stuck there! Pakistan Army. Blah..blah….. Come out of it. Remember, India has protected itself very well despite being suddenly attacked by Pakistan in 1965 (Pak preparing for 2yrs) shocked and awed the hell out of Pakistan army, which was pushed into suicide missions instead of its dream of cake walk into kashmir and other parts of India. 2001-2002 was tactical withdrwal :-) -sounds familiar. Any way you should say thank you for that since you will not be sitting and blogging if that happened.

@Rajeev, India better realize it is bordered on the west by a 170 million strong muslim nuclear power, Pakistan. If in the world there is any muslim country with a highly trained army, deadly and sophisticated weapons systems and missile capability it is Pakistan.
–Pakistan #1 muslim country and all that.. If I translate a Punjabi phrase that means “One eyed man is the king in a state full of blind men” Might well be #1 Muslim country since many are undeveloped. But do not compare yourself with India. Balance wise–1965 was your last chance and yet you failed miserably. Now don;t even dream and yes I always keep NUKES into equation (may not Sing Nuke song). Pakistan Generals know Indian superiority. But you guys sucker for empty bravery, they have to feed with war cries once in a while and lies if lost.

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive
 

@Also, if you were to do some math, I am sure there are more beggars in India than in Pakistan. What did the movie slumdog millionaire highlight? with HIV on the rise, with poverty stricken dalit low caste hindus living in misery in India, Pakistanis are much better off in Pakistan.

-First off, congrats to AR Rehman for 2 Oscars & Resul Pookutty for 1.
-Aldo three cheers for Azhar Mohammed and Rubina Ali, kids from slums for their wonderful acting in the movie.

@What did the movie slumdog millionaire highlight?

This is what it highlighted:
“They were Hindu, Muslim, Christian, Malayali, Punjabi, Goan, Tamil, Brit-Indians, Indophile Brits, rich, poor…there was tuxedo, bandhgala, sherwani, sari, salwar… It was multi-hued India’s day in the Oscar sun, even if the movie was made by a Brit under an international banner.”

We take the positives while not keeping our eyes off the negatives. Nor do we issue fatwa against AR Rehman who is converted Muslim.

—Three cheers for secular India

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive
 

- I thought Musharaff was on record stating Kargil occupation was not by Pakistani army but some militants ?? So much for going on record of pakistani army cheifs and leaders !!
- Posted by Anitha

–Good one :-)

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive
 

Umair:

I thought I should address your concern and find some other achievement.

India launched Chandrayaan-1, an unmanned orbiter to Moon, and will have an Indian on moon by 2020. Chandrayaan-1 as an example.

When is Pakistan launching? Id ka chaand?

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive
 

All those who sing praise of the Pakistani army – your culture has survived by surrendering throughout history. Then your people join the opposite side that conquered you and boast about yourselves.

When Muhammad Bin Qasim ran over Sindh, Multan etc, your people converted and switched sides. Your history was written as starting with Qasim’s conquest. Your local king Dahir was made into a corrupt man.

When the Mongols over ran the place, the same thing happened.

When the British came, battalions from Punjab completely switched to their side after Ranjit Singh. This switch was so much that during 1857 Mutiny, your regiments rescued the British from certain eviction.

Your army surrendered to the Indian army in 1971.

When the US came to your door step, your beloved President Musharraf jumped ship on the blink of an eye.

Now your mighty military surrendered to the Taliban.

Your military is made up of paper Tigers. You cannot win any war. Do not think that your rusted nukes will threaten anyone. Others have it too and in larger quantity.

Sit at home and watch Zee TV that beams from India before the Taliban arrives.

 

In 2001, Musharraf switched sides to fight terror as soon as the US showed up at the door. He was not so much for siding with the US. His generals would have eliminated him if he did that. But he won over them and convinced them by bringing India into the picture. He said in one of the interviews that India was trying to woo the US and before the enemy could join forces with the US, he had to make sure that Pakistan pre-empted India\’s move. So US went with Pakistan on war on terror. The Indian element changes the whole psychology of Pakistanis.

Eight years have gone and nothing has come out of the effort. The US has been misled by wily tactics by the thief himself to catch the thief. And the US has wasted most of its efforts.

It is time the US realized the trap it has been lured into and joins hands with India to fight terror. Then everyone will be on the same page. Pakistan can still run along if it wants. But it won’t be able to fight terrorism with the US on one side and conduct terrorist activities on India on the other side.

The war on terror is entering its next phase. Countries will need to make new alliances and start afresh. India should join hands with NATO and provide the logistical support in terms of bases, routing of material etc for the allied forces. The US is relying on land routes from Pakistan for supplies and the Taliban is burning them up.

Setting up US bases for a short duration inside India is not such a bad idea as some people think. US has bases in Germany, Turkey, Saudi Arabia etc and they are not being run over by the US. India can make a deal for five years of support for the war on global terror. Let the US keep the bases in Indian controlled Kashmir and fly their supplies from there into Afghanistan. The drones can fly from Rajasthan, Punjab and Kashmir. Indian military can provide cover for the US bases without directly getting involved in the war. Pakistan will not dare attack the US operations inside India for fear of retaliation from the US. Keeping the US efforts from inside India and Pakistan will prevent Pakistan from playing a double game.

And the US will come forward to share intelligence against local terrorism, train our intelligence, provide modern systems for such purposes. They will provide India with hi tech equipment that they will not give the Pakistanis, because of the danger of those things getting into the wrong hands there. India can breathe easy and focus its energy on national matters.

In these difficult times, military co-operation is a must. Going it alone polices of Nehru and Indira Gandhi landed us in the lap of the communists.

It is the necessity of the day and I do not see anything wrong in a joint NATO-Indian effort in the war on terrorism.

Pakistan is not suffering from degradation because of the US presence in the vicinity. Its problems arise from its own internal sources. India will not lose anything by helping the US allies directly and benefitting from it.

In case the need for de-nuclearizing Pakistan arises, having joint efforts set up ahead of time really helps. US presence will also keep China at bay. India can get favors from the US in return for its participation. Kashmir will not burn so long as the US is sitting in the middle. It will help temper the situation considerably.

India has benefitted tremendously by economic alliance with the US. Military alliance is one more step for safety and security. None of the powerful countries are working alone. They all are part of some alliance like the NATO. India and the US form natural allies in all respects. This is the time to forge that. There are several things to gain if the Indian government considers this point.

 

Bulletfish, Anup, Rajeev
Cool down guys, Pakistan is here to remain. Global watcher says another one misadventure and Pakistan will suffer knee smashing diplomacy! My foot
M.J Akbar is on the record in a recent column in Khaleej Times and Arab News stating Islamabad is more clever and competent in diplomacy than India.
All the talk of Pakistan surrendering is sheer non-sense, I keep saying Pakistan is a 170 million strong muslim nation armed with deadly nuclear weapons and ballistic missile systems.
Anup also has doubts that Pakistan will exist or not, let me assure Pakistan has all the means to destroy its enemies.
I and millions like me are proud to be Pakistanis. Pakistani diaspora are proud to call themselves Pakistani. All you guys are capable of is conducting a failed smear campaign on Reuters. Shame on you guys, look at your own country, violence, terrorism, communal riots, HIV, poverty, corruption, what is there to boast about India?
YOU ALL MUST SHUT THE F*** UP!!!

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive
 

Global watcher wrote:
“Please do not provoke India into a war. The next time, someone will post a picture of Gen. Kayani signing a surrender to India.”

MY FOOT

Gen. Ashfaq Pervaiz Kayani will simply order Lt. Gen Khalid Kidwai D.G Strategic Plans Division to deploy a Shaheen-1 missile with a nuclear warhead and launch it towards India.
Gen. Kayani is the Commander-in-Chief of a nuclear armed military, there is no surrender this time. You will fight or die fighting, there is no place to run. Pakistan is here, face it or F*** off. You cant do nothing to Pkaistan!!!

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive
 

I am truly amazed at the hatred some Indians like Global watcher, Anup, Rajeev bulletfish have towards Pakistan. I wish them all a long life.
I heard a proverb somewhere:
“Let my enemies live longer to see me prosper”.

Time and again you guys have expressed your hatred towards Pakistan, you do not represent India, you are among those myopic war mongerers suffering from Pakistan phobia. You belong to the class of people in India who are afraid of Pakistan right from the begining. Live in fear and die in fear because Pakistan is going nowhere, we share a 2200 km long border with India. You have nowhere to run.

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive
 

Oh for the love of god will all of you please shut up! Haven’t you heard the old proverb “If you have nothing nice to say then say nothing at all”? I used to find the bickering funny but now it just drones on and on. What are you guys saying that you haven’t said a hundred times before? Its getting old and boring fast. Stop hating each other or at least don’t let you fear and hatred show. Be civil. Live and let live. You think Pakistan hates India and vice versa? Well look at yourselves and realize how that is a self fulfilling prophesy. I have a challenge for you guys if you are game: Can each of you post at least one thing about your neighbouring country that you think is good? Or are we all just mindless, hate-filled bigots?

Posted by Auran | Report as abusive
 

Guys,

Six Sri Lankan cricketers got shot by terrorists at Lahore today. Pakistanis, it is not an exaggeration that your country has become infested with terrorism. It is not that every one of you is a bad human. But look at the dimension of what you people are facing. There is no point in chest thumping about your nuclear weapons, military generals and wonderful life. No country will ever tour Pakistan from here on again. Sri Lankans came there out of goodwill, when other countries refused to tour there. Cricket was one thing the Pakistanis were good at and loved. Now even that has become a victim of terrorism.

India should cancel or postpone the IPL as well for sometime. I am sure the terrorists will strike there. It will be due to the envy of what goes on in India, while Pakistan has begun to burn. These are very difficult times.

I know it hurts one’s pride when it comes to one’s country’s matters. People get emotional and defend their nation and its pride despite the issues that show their nations in a negative way. But this time, be serious and think about where everything is headed.

India should tighten up security everywhere and aggressively seek terrorists who will be sneaking into the country. All good natured and helpless Pakistanis, get out of your country and go somewhere else if you can. Your country is beginning go up in flames.

 

Using foul language is neither here nor there. Pakistan is going back towards the medieval ages, unlike Turkey. The difference in medieval times was that Islamic civilisation was superior to that found in India especially in Weaponry and social equality and more vibrant. Today it is a decayed remnant that clings on virulently to the past glories. Pakistan is losing its nationalism and going toward islamist with its attendant failures. We Indians have problems but we have a free press, democracy, secularism and an army inside barracks. Pak has nukes, opium and an return to wilderness as its future. Citizens of Pak are at crossroads. Nobody can help make their choices. Unfortunately, Freedom does not come without bloodshed eg American civil war. Inshallah, a prosperous and peaceful and modern Pak will come out of all this. Pak should remove the India factor from all their equations and find their own destiny.

Posted by kp vidyashankar | Report as abusive
 

Friends…

Lets keep one thing very simple. By gloating on the fact that Pakistan is underdeveloped, or that the Muslims are in general underdeveloped or have not achieved anything in life is just not true. They have indeed achieved a lot of things that deserves self respect – Iran had just launched a rocket to the spaces. Do you want to discount these facts?

And what about Pakistan’s nuclear weapons and missiles. No matter what you attribute connotations like stolen, not working with them, it works and to some extend are better than the ones the DRDO makes in India.

What we should be focusing on is how do we grow without getting ourselves hyphenated to Pakistan. The more we try to compare ourselves to them, the more will you realize its pointless for the future. However, its very relevant to the present. Most of the mistakes they do should be studied and we must overcome them.

Next in line is our ability look more to the east and less to the west. We should try to match ourselves with China and Japan. Japan is more advanced than us and China in certain areas are way ahead of us.

Some questions to ponder on…

Where do we stand as far as economic progress for the underprivileged are concerned.

How equally are we treating the members of our community.

What is the scientific progress we have made in the area of defense in the last half a century. What is stopping us from realizing a true military industrial complex.

What about our Human Development Index?

Is our economy going strong? Can we continue to procrastinate on critical reforms tasks like reducing government spending, reducing deficit, labor reforms and small savings reforms.

Posted by Jacob | Report as abusive
 

UMAIR:

@Bulletfish, Anup, Rajeev
Cool down guys, Pakistan is here to remain. ……….Islamabad is more clever and competent in diplomacy than India.”

@Anup also has doubts that Pakistan will exist or not, let me assure Pakistan has all the means to destroy its enemies………… Shame on you guys, look at your own country, violence, terrorism, communal riots, HIV, poverty, corruption, what is there to boast about India?
YOU ALL MUST SHUT THE F*** UP!!!”

–Umair, face the facts. Do you expect Indians to sing praises of Pakistan? There is nothing much in your last 2-3 posts that merits much response. The last line is a clincher- desperation and anger, precipitating into plain abuse language. Yes India has negatives like any country including Pakistan, but the important thing is India is addressing them. If you missed Indian achievements, we have a lot to mention. The reason is Govt does not pump in imbalanced resources into buying weapons etc. unlike Pakistan’s constant Indian paranoia eating Pak up—thinking all the times War, breeding terrorism. Self-reliance of Indian economy disallows any room for arm twisting by superpowers as they do to Pakistan.

Pakistan has all the problems you listed and many more, but sadly your crime syndicate Pakistani Army/ISI/imported leaders have no plans–rather they fight among themselves at this time. I have nothing against innocent Pakistanis, but for sure my anger against Pakistani crime syndicate is subdued—for all the valid reasons.

You think Pakistan is the most progressive Muslim nation, you are mistaken, Iran is much better than you. Iranians are smarter. They know their priorities and successfully launched its first satellite into orbit, a step hailed by Iran’s president as a “source of pride” for the Islamic republic. Yes I would agree with that sense of pride. Watch in your rear view mirror, they are going to acquire nukes, deflating your false perception of superiority among Muslim nations. They may already have one.

I heard this bad news that terrorists attacked Sri Lanka’s national cricket team Tuesday in Lahore, wounding at least two players and killing five police officers. That seals foreign teams visiting Pakistan for cricket.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/arti cle/ALeqM5hkiMxbHNH0BqgpWA2ZG6VD6wVTmAD9 6MBKU80

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive
 

@India should tighten up security everywhere and aggressively seek terrorists who will be sneaking into the country. All good natured and helpless Pakistanis, get out of your country and go somewhere else if you can. Your country is beginning go up in flames.
- Posted by Mauryan

-With utmost respect to your well-meaning suggestion, a true Pakistani will not run away at this time–rather help the country someway. I would have suggested the same to an Indian.

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive
 

@Oh for the love of god will all of you please shut up! Haven’t you heard the old proverb “If you have nothing nice to say then say nothing at all”? I used to find the bickering funny but now it just drones on and on. What are you guys saying that you haven’t said a hundred times before? Its getting old and boring fast. ……. I have a challenge for you guys if you are game: Can each of you post at least one thing about your neighbouring country that you think is good? Or are we all just mindless, hate-filled bigots?
- Posted by Auran

Auran: That’s a wonderful suggestion. Can you please participate more and lead by example. That might help.

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive
 

I have nothing against anyone but just wanted to know what is wrong with cricket now? Why were the Srilankan players attacked? Is it against some law or religious beleif to play games, to compete? I just wanted to understand what these attackers had against cricket or even Srilanka for that matter? I can understand that they dislike India and Indians, its mutual, but why Srilankans? or Cricket?

Posted by Kusum | Report as abusive
 

I read a lot about whatever’s going on in the world but I am careful not to form rigid opinions based on what I read, am told etc. I also try my best to avoid prejudices and prejudicing people in turm. These form the reasons why I don’t opine about most things like US, Russia, Iran, Pakistan, India, the economy, Darfur. I understand things the way I understand them but that is not necessarily right and I am unwilling to burden an unreceptive audience with my notions of how the world works. That said however I am fairly confident of one thing, thus I share it with you all, and that is that all people are capable of both good and evil and that hatred never solved anything.

Now from my stance of admitted ignorance I have this to say with certainty of Pakistan and India: Both India and Pakistan have awesome food. I mean its incredible! I love it. The kebabs! Yum!

Now I could have said more but I don’t want to debate it. I hope there is consensus that the food is great :-) .

Posted by Auran | Report as abusive
 

Umair,
You talk of India to look at our own country, violence, terrorism, communal riots, HIV, poverty, corruption, what is there to boast about India?

We have a lot more to boast about than you do.

Yes, we have communal riots, just like Pakistan in Punjab province.
Yes, we have HIV and poverty, no more or less than Pakistan.
Yes, we have corruption, Pakistan has Mr. 10% as president BEGGING Saudi Arabia, USA, China and IMF for aid.

When India underwent economic reforms in the 1990s; Pakistan went to the IMF for a loan.

India got a Nuclear Deal with USA and Pakistan with Zardari and Gilani had play Jonny-come-lately to ask for the same deal because Pakistan is fighting war on terror. Zardari could not even get a simialr deal from the Chinese no matter how much arse kissing he did.

Yes, we have violence too. If there is one piece of advice I can give you it would be please give better protection to visiting cricket teams. I heard that the Sri Lankans are not going to be happy.

A man who views the world the same at fifty as he did at twenty has wasted thirty years of his life. (Mohammed Ali).

Pakistan has viewed India the same way for the last 62 years.

No, Umair, it is you I wish to live in interesting times and have a long life to see India prosper. For the past 60 odd years it has just been that.

Please respectfully look after your Sri Lankan guests.

Posted by bulletfish | Report as abusive
 

Todays attack on friendly Sri Lankan cricket team in Lahor gives one more proof that the so called democratically elected Govt. of Zaradari is not in control of Pakistan. Allied Forces in Afganistan must take over the rule in this terror stricken Pakistan and bring about peace in the subcontinent in partcular and world in general.

Posted by vicky | Report as abusive
 

Umair
“we share a 2200 km long border with India. You have nowhere to run.”

—If one billion plus indians, just stand on this 2200km border & pee on pakistan – you guys will drown lol – then later someday history will state – the great citizens of India got pis%ed at the barbarians of ‘Sin-stan’ (papistan) & pee’d them off from the face of earth…

Posted by Anup | Report as abusive
 

Auran you wrote:

“Oh for the love of god will all of you please shut up! Haven’t you heard the old proverb “If you have nothing nice to say then say nothing at all”? I used to find the bickering funny but now it just drones on and on. What are you guys saying that you haven’t said a hundred times before? Its getting old and boring fast. Stop hating each other or at least don’t let your fear and hatred show. Be civil. Live and let live. You think Pakistan hates India and vice versa? Well look at yourselves and realize how that is a self fulfilling prophesy. I have a challenge for you guys if you are game: Can each of you post at least one thing about your neighbouring country that you think is good? Or are we all just mindless, hate-filled bigots?”

Thanks. That’s a good suggestion, as was your later comment that India and Pakistan should at least reach consensus that the food is good (though maybe I should draw fire by saying I read recently that curry was introduced by the British).

All, the discussion is indeed getting rather repetitive. And it’s playing into the kind of stereotypes that many of the people making comments on this blog claim to oppose. I’ve just posted a blog on the attack on the Sri Lankan cricket team:

http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2009/0 3/03/pakistan-under-siege-cricket-become s-a-target/

Can those of you posting comments there take as a starting point the fact that the obsession with cricket is something that India and Pakistan share?

Myra

Posted by Myra MacDonald | Report as abusive
 

Bullet Fish:
“Please respectfully look after your Sri Lankan guests.”

We were looking after them, until you Indians decided to send terrorists after them in Lahore.

Stop hating Pakistan and detesting its existence- when your leadership can accept that reality, then we will have peace in South Asia.

Posted by MZBH | Report as abusive
 

Stop hating Pakistan and detesting its existence- when your leadership can accept that reality, then we will have peace in South Asia.
- Posted by MZBH

-MZBH, if India blames pak, you do not have to do the same because 1st is true, 2nd is untrue. If you want to solve the Lahore case, do not be on wrong track.

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive
 

@Myra,

Myra, it seems as though most of the population of Pakistani’s are living in a state of “Eyes Wide Shut”, or “Plausible Denial”.

The world is grown increasingly frustrated with these people who still have their “stick” pointed at India. They view the Jihadi-Terrorist-Uprising as a temporary passing phase, that is “not to be worried about”, as they are getting killed everyday themselves.

Could you please start a post about a Pakistani awakening against Madrassas, jihadism, terrorism and embracing India as a friend? All of the postings here, not one of them ever addressed an uprising or awakening of a sort in Pakistan against Radical Islam. Radical Islam is pervasive throughout the Pakistani army, that is why they always have their stick pointed at India, the root cause is Radical Islam, this is the same radical Islam that brought about the formation of Pakistani Deobandism. Now, this same extremism which formed Pakistan, is tearing it apart like a cancer.

This awakening topic is very important to see if Pakistani’s have the courage, inner strength and will to fight for their country. I am interested to see what they have to say about radicalization of their religion, how they view their Indian neighbours and whether they truly want peace with them. It all starts and ends with the citizens, Myra. I advocate topics which question Pakistani’s to seek conciliation with India and fight radical expansist and entitlementistic Islam.

We can go about blogging about so many different topics, but we are never generating the right topics to hone in on root causes of terrorism and hatreds.

Posted by Global Watcher | Report as abusive
 

myra
“Auran you wrote:-Thanks. That’s a good suggestion,
“Oh for the love of god will all of you please shut up! Haven’t you heard the old proverb “If you have nothing nice to say then say nothing at all”?

— sounds like sermons to me, wherein lies a suggestion?

“I used to find the bickering funny but now it just drones on and on.”

—Amazingly the actual droning is applauded…wonder whether resorting to that will be looked upon with awe & respect & termed as serious business…

Posted by anup | Report as abusive
 

MZBH wrote:
Stop hating Pakistan and detesting its existence- when your leadership can accept that reality, then we will have peace in South Asia.

What reality is that?

That Pakistan is the epicentre of world terrorism!
Your glorious Pak Army SURRENDER to the Taliban!
That you now have Taliban taking over Swat!
That you guaranteed security for the Sri Lankan team and now THIS incident happens.

You Pakis were in denial afer denial after denial about Pakistani involvement in the Mumbai attacks. Yet, surprise, surprise; you come out admitting your involvement in the end and sack a minister! This is irrefutable!!!

In India WE caught 1 of the 10 gunmen who was… surprise, surprise a PAKISTANI. Even his father came forward, but no media were allowed to interview the father.

Our leadership here were economically reforming India while your Pakistani leadership was running off to the IMF with the begging bowl.

We, in India, do not hate you in Pakistan. Its just that there is absolutely nothing to like about Pakistan. No one in the world needs to terrorise Pakistan. It does that perfectly by itself.

Posted by bulletfish | Report as abusive
 

AURAN writes,

Can each of you post at least one thing about your neighbouring country

Sure….lets see……….

Yes they make tasty food
yes they play good cricket
they are conservative and
less alcoholic

now, can you reciprocate please, say something good about India.

 

It is indeed surprising that we are unable to accept certain fundamental facts.

Pakistan needs to stop thinking that the terrorists that they created are good people who do good things for them.

Pakistan needs to focus on defeating the same snakes that they created.

Pakistan needs to stop going to the Army every time they are in trouble. Trust me, this is the most difficult of the above three things.

India needs to be watchful as ever to ensure that internal terrorist elements who are flaming the minority community are dealt with properly. A good thing I think would be for us to start eliminating a few like in Punjab and support the forward thinking elements. I think once the minor parties like SP, BSP, RJD and folks like them are put to notice on national security and asked to defend their cerdentials, they should be able realize the importance of this aspect).

If we do a bad job at it in which one too many innocent folks are killed, its going to backfire. But no tolerance for terrorists.

A complete upheaval of the security setup is needed as well. A serious job at it too.

There is no better time to do this than now. At the same time, we need to start engaging the leadership of this community about the cost of associating any bit of support to these folks. This is the most difficult task for India. For this, we need to cut off the links of these leaders from external elements (I am in no doubt of the fact that these leaders are in talks with global leaders of instability – Saudi Arabia and Pakistan).

India needs to continue its economic focus. No one respects a pauper.

Posted by Jacob | Report as abusive
 

Symptoms for 21′st dec 2012 are already showing up(islamic terrorism well supported by CHINESE copy cats & U.S 2 some extent).The WORLD should wake up and act swiftly 2 prevent an APOCALYPSE.

Posted by INDIAN | Report as abusive
 

I think you do not know what we know!the war going on in the name of fighting terrorism is more like a “world semi cold world war”.There, on afghan land only half is being played,where the rest is that there is no nation in the world which is not participating in it ,each of them is using different tactics to destruct their own enemies.every country knows that in this nuclear age there is no room for conventional war,while war on terror had proved to be a golden opportunity for them to form hidden power blocks in between different countries.
while Pakistan & ISI are treated like a chaiwala in a casino full of gangsters,as soon as some one loses some money to others,that causes chaiwala a few punches to ease out the loser’s frustration.

 

Funny to hear Indians lecturing Pakistanis on Pakistan. It shows their arrogance and their ignorance.

So one of the Mumbai gunmen was a Pakistani, so what ? Does it prove the entire state/nation of Pakistan was guilty of Mumbai attack ? No

What Mumbai attack proves is 10 youngsters can invade India and paralyze an entire city for 3 days. After that Indian posters come to Internet blogs and rail against Pakistan.

Not only is India an ignorant country but cowardly bunch of fools as well.

 

@So one of the Mumbai gunmen was a Pakistani, so what ? Does it prove the entire state/nation of Pakistan was guilty of Mumbai attack ? No
- Posted by Aamir Ali
—-Yes. It is with the the direct support of Pakistan or Pakisan looked away–means the same thing. So again, yes Pakistan is involved—stop this ridiculous words “entire state/nation”–Pakistan is invloved–swallow it whatever way you want.

@What Mumbai attack proves is 10 youngsters can invade India and paralyze an entire city for 3 days. After that Indian posters come to Internet blogs and rail against Pakistan.
—evidence Mister.

@Not only is India an ignorant country but cowardly bunch of fools as well.
–Really—lol
look who is talking: By now Taliban is 50Km away from Islamabad and such fear they have created of the beheadings that Paki Army is not in the mood to fight with them. Yiu guuys sure are masters at killing millions in East Pakistan–bith Muslims and Hindus and Balochis.

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive
 

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