Has Pakistan become the central front?

March 4, 2009

In a report released late last month, the U.S. Atlantic Council think tank warned that the ramifications of state failure in Pakistan would be far graver than those in Afghanistan, with regional and global impact. “With nuclear weapons and a huge army, a population over five times that of Afghanistan and with an influential diaspora, Pakistan now seems less able, without outside help, to muddle through its challenges than at any time since its war with India in 1971.”

The report, co-sponsored by Senator John Kerry and urging greater U.S. aid, said time was running out to stabilise Pakistan, with action required within months. It’s not even been two weeks since that report was released, and already events in Pakistan have taken a dramatic turn for the worse – from the confrontation between President Asif Ali Zardari and former prime minister Nawaz Sharif to Tuesday’s attack on the Sri Lanka cricket team in Lahore.

“Pakistan’s disintegration, if that is what is now being witnessed, is a tragedy of Shakespearean dimensions, a riveting spectacle, and a clear and present danger to international security,” said a comment piece in Britain’s Guardian newspaper. ”But who in the world can stop it?”

The first question to ask is whether Pakistan has now become the central front in the battle against al Qaeda and its Islamist allies in the Taliban and other militant groups. During his election campaign, President Barack Obama said the central front was Afghanistan rather than Iraq. After he took office he shifted this to “Af/Pak” with the appointment of Richard Holbrooke as special envoy to Afghanistan and Pakistan. With turmoil now reaching Punjab, the heartland of Pakistan, he might need to shift his focus even further east.

The Atlantic Council report said the United States faced challenges in three separate but related contexts: Afghanistan, the Afghan/Pakistan tribal belt, and Pakistan. “In the present conjucture, Pakistan is arguably the most important of the three.” (my italics)

A second question is whether Pakistan, rather than Afghanistan, has been the primary target of al Qaeda all along. After last November’s attack on Mumbai, many analysts assumed that whoever was behind it intended to draw the Pakistan Army into a confrontation with India on Pakistan’s eastern border, making it easier for Islamist militants holed up on the country’s western border to launch attacks in Afghanistan.  What if the end-game of the confrontation, had it materialised, been Pakistan rather than Afghanistan?

The third question, of course, is what the international community will do. The United States has already pledged financial and diplomatic support for the country’s struggling civilian government; invited Pakistan Army chief General Ashfaq Kayani to Washington last week for talks; dispatched Holbrooke on a tour of the regionstepped up drone missile attacks on Pakistan’s border with Afghanistan, and promised to send an extra 17,000 troops to stabilise Afghanistan. It has also promised a wide-ranging review of strategy in Afghanistan and Pakistan, although with events moving so fast — particularly in Pakistan – it’s hard to see how this re-examination can keep pace.

The Washington Note, in a post this weekend, floated the idea that the United States might give up on Afghanistan and opt instead for a strong alliance with Pakistan.  It quotes a former top strategic adviser to an American president as saying that ”ultimately the U.S. has a very, very difficult choice to make in Pakistan regarding Afghanistan, its regional neighbors, and our other allies. He said that one possible way to stabilize both countries is to make a deal with the devil and engineer a very strong, close military alliance with the Pakistan military and its intelligence operation. That means we choose Pakistan over its other regional rivals — and that we cede Afghanistan to satellite status under Pakistan.”

The writer admits he does not know whether such a plan would work – it would certainly alienate India and would possibly find few takers even in Pakistan, where anti-American sentiment is strong. But that the idea should be floated at all, more than seven years after the United States overthrew the Pakistan-backed Taliban rulers of Afghanistan, highlights quite how serious the challenges are in the region.

The aim would presumably be to reach a deal with the Afghan Taliban, allowing the United States to focus its energies in targetting al Qaeda and helping Pakistan defeat the Pakistani Taliban, who appear bent on overthrowing the government in Islamabad. In doing so, the United States would face a deterioration in its relationship with India – cultivated by the Bush administration as a counterweight to China.

Retired Indian diplomat M.K. Bhadrakumar picked up a similar theme in an analysis of China’s attitude to the deepening crisis in South Asia. He writes that China would be willing to see the Taliban accommodated in Afghanistan while also backing efforts to stabilise Pakistan, its traditional ally, in a realignment which would clip Indian power in the region. 

There will no doubt be more ideas in the days and weeks ahead on how to stabilise Pakistan. What is clear is that a shift in thinking has begun in which Pakistan, rather than Afghanistan, is the centre of attention. So to return to my original question. Has Pakistan become the central front in the battle against al Qaeda and Islamist militants? And if so, what are the implications?

(Photos: Marriott hotel in Islamabad/Sept 2008 and Taj hotel in Mumbai/Nov 2008)

106 comments

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Why does Pakistan not ask its all-weather friend for help? This when friends need each other the most.

Pakistan has been staring into the abyss for a long time. This time its head is in it. One would have thought after the Marriott Hotel bombing and the Taliban in Swat; the people of Pakistan would protest against the terrorists. No, they did not. Instead of protesting against what is happening in their own country; they had to protest against Israel bombing Gaza and collect money for the Gazan people.

Pakistan’s history is circular. It goes from corrupt civilian rule to military dictatorship over and over again.

No one is going to hold a protest rally against this attack. Everyone will sit passively in their homes and mull over who is to blame.

As for Pakistan Cricket; this is another nail in the coffin. I mean the Aussies have not played in Pakistan for 10 years!!!!

Posted by bulletfish | Report as abusive

Attacking the root cause of islamic terrorism means intervening in Pakistan. All troubles in South Asia have been caused by Pakistani military agencies who term their support for terrorists groups as a long-term asset. Pakistan should stop training such groups, stop distinguishing between good and bad taliban, stop Saudi money flowing to its madrassas and pray to stay an integrated entity. Why does it need aid to stay as one nation?

China does not care as long as its islamic population does not get influenced by Pakistani militants. It is a communist state with a very poor human rights record; attacking peaceful Tibetian monks with lethal weapons. Did China give Pakistan more than a billion dollars in aid before resorting to IMF? Beggars cannot be choosers!

Posted by Jerry | Report as abusive

@Myra,

Myra, Pakistan has indeed become the central front against Islamic Radicalization. I agree with Bulletfish, in that it is a vicious circle of Army Rule, and Civilian Rule. Pakistan does not seem to be working for the last 60 years, stable or unstable it has become extremely dangerous for the world for many reasons, I don’t need to go into. One commonality and at the core of this vicious circle is Radical Islam.

I think the problem in Pakistan is since its inception, it has been founded on hate and devaluing others, namely India. When you teach your children from a young age to devalue others, it won’t be long before you have a society of children who grow up, devaluing their neighbours, countrymen, establishment and even their own family members.

I think at the root, this brand of Islam, which founded Pakistan, lacks basic human moral values. It is evident at so many failed and assasinated leaders of Pakistan, the murders. We can discuss so many symptoms of what is happening there. The root cause is basic moral human values are lacking in Pakistani culture. No, not everyone in Pakistan is lacking moral values, but on the whole, it is.

I think the great experiment of the partition has long reach its zenith and now we stare as Pakistan slow slides off into darkness. There is no military or diplomatic or financial solution to Pakistan. Only an act of God can save it now. That act of God, would have to be a moral enlightenment of a very pervasive nature.

On a moral practical level, first, the Jihadi elements must be removed. Absolutely, unequivocally, with punishing resolve, the Pakistani citizens must smash the Madrassa system and root out all the Terrorists and training camps, which is tearing through their country like a cancer. The military, the police, the US, China and the world cannot do it, only average everyday Pakistanis can.

China is only to happy to supply and fuel a terrorism prone and India-hate fueled Pakistan.

The center of all this lack of morality is the mating of religion with politics. While the formation of Pakistan was religious, it is this same formation that will now cause its death.

Pakistan must completely flatten and collapse into chaos and failure before it can rise a new with democracy, secularity, pluralism and a free and open non-religious country like India, US, UK, Canada, or an other European society.

Posted by Global Watcher | Report as abusive

This and other similar analysis shows the lack of depth of knowledge of the problem. They repeatedly commit mistake by seeing Pakistan, Taliban and China and even US as part of the solution while these are the part of the problem. The Policies of Obama has added new dimension to this problem. He totally lacks any clarity of vision regarding any world problem.

This Af-Pak problem can only be solved by giving driving seat to India and Afghanistan. Central Asian Countries with Russia can be the supportive countries. Role of India should also not be military it should restrict only to the social dimensions.

Otherwise after four years Mr. Obama will be seen repenting for the loss of these four years.

Posted by Pratap Shreyas | Report as abusive

It is futile to provide any type of aid, whether it be military, food, money, energy to Pakistan. Any aid to Pakistan is just delaying the inevitable and causing more death.

It is best that all countries leave Pakistan alone and leave it be to isolation.

Zardari keeps reiterating that Pakistani’s failure is the world’s failure….this is a false notion…Pakistan’s failure is the moral failure of its citizens. Every citizen has moral obligations and responsibilities to their country. Pakistan’s citizens have failed Pakistan miserably. They lack the moral will, courage and strength to embrace a higher univeral human ideal, that India and Western countries possess.

Posted by Global Watcher | Report as abusive

@Myra,

You reported above,

“In a report released late last month, the U.S. Atlantic Council think tank warned that the ramifications of state failure in Pakistan would be far graver than those in Afghanistan, with regional and global impact. “With nuclear weapons and a huge army, a population over five times that of Afghanistan and with an influential diaspora, Pakistan now seems less able, without outside help, to muddle through its challenges than at any time since its war with India in 1971.”

Myra, the U.S. Obama administration just spent another $3 Billion USD to prop up Pakistan. It would have been cheaper to buy the Pakistani Nuke Arsenal through whatever hook and crook bribery the U.S. Intelligence is so good at for $1 Billion.

Any aid, if the West insists, should require an insurance policy of handing over the nukes. They can have all the aid in Pak, but they can’t be asking for aid, while possessing nukes and holding the rest of the world hostage constantly begging for food and money.

It is not appropriate to give aid in such huge amounts, while letting Pakistan retain its overly confident posture towards the world, because it has nukes, this absolutely absurd!

Those nukes are giving the most corrupt part of Pakistan, its military, an artificial sense of superiority, while it begs for money and food.

Is it just me, or is this just beyond absurd?!?! Where is the voice of reason? It is a moral duty towards humanity and earth for the Pakistani’s, giving how fragile their country is, to be willing give the nukes to the U.S. for safe keeping, in case the country collapses.

The world does not trust Pakistan anymore.

Let the country Islamacize, if it wishes, let them kill each other, let the blood bath begin in Pakistan, but they should not have one nuke in their possession, given their past, current and future.

Posted by Global Watcher | Report as abusive

How eager these aliases are to be regional political commentators, as though following media reportage is qualification enough.
Even a cursory analysis of many assertions would identify the speculation and conjecture rife in much of the reportage including this article, which too many appear so comfortable and willing to trust irrefutably to inform their ‘expert’ opinion and allow them to propose their own solutions.
It would surely serve more by using the opportunity to comment, to critique the authority of the article itself in order to challenge the quality of the journalism and ultimately move away from stating opinion, however well informed, as fact

Posted by Adam Khan | Report as abusive

Duh ! Pakistan has been the center of terrorism since 1948.

It SENT Pashtoon tribesmen into Kashmir at the time and supported various destabilizing moves in India from Punjab to Assam at every opportunity.
It conducted the largest genocide post WW2 in Bangladesh using its army and Razakars in 1971.
It allowed Islamization to mushroom at an unprecedented level against the Russians in Afghanistan and continued to support the Taliban when they were the only country other than Saudi Arabia to do so.
Then it turned these people against Kashmir in India and against India in general as “non state actors.”

Many countries indulge in covert action against their “enemies” but Pakistan’s outsourcing of this action to religionists and allowing it to grow unsupervized has exploded in their face.

Years of nurturing have borne fruit and the child is ready to bring home the bread. Hope they enjoy it !

Posted by Maqbool Rehman | Report as abusive

Except for starry-eyed foreign correspondents and CIA brigands — both smitten by the (genuine) hospitality of the Pakistani people, anyone with a smidgen of intelligence and knowledge of the region’s history should know this has been going down the drain for a long time now — accelerating all the time. While on cricket, Ian Botham said a long-time ago that Pakistan was the kind of place one should send one’s mother-in-law to. He eventually did too! But that was before the Taliban took charge. Now he wouldn’t want his worse enemy to go there. He should check with Dominic Cork.

Posted by tango | Report as abusive

Pakistan is a living proof of the fact that religion alone cannot create and sustain a nation. British created a country for the people who never wanted it in the first place; the present day Pakistan in order to meet the demands of those who wanted a separate state; the Muslims of mainland India who are still predominantly based in India. Today’s Pakistan was essentially a primitive, underdeveloped and tribal buffer zone that the British in India maintained against Persia/Iran. Radicalization in Pakistan is a result of sheer mismanagement of its years of corrupt, inept leadership, both civlian and military. Even the most optimistic experts are finding it hard to have faith in the long term survival of this crippled and rapidly collapsing state in one of the world’s most significant geographic spot that neighbours India, China, Iran, Afghanistan and the Gulf. In my opinion, only a miracle comprised of a highly sharp and capable military ruler backed by an excellent team can shore up this country and its miserable people. Time is fast running out !

Posted by SMJ | Report as abusive

@Has Pakistan become the central front in the battle against al Qaeda and Islamist militants?

- Not yet. There is no real battle against al qaeda and Islamists in pakistan yet !! Though pakistan has been grabbing lot of attention for wrong reasons..there is no real battle of any kind yet..The reason there is no battle is because the lack of will to oppose the Islamist militants both from inside pakistan and the external world..
But pakistan is rapidly going to become the central for fight against islamists as afghanistan and Iraq both are progressing in their development faster than pakistan the militancy is bound to cease sooner and islamists will have no other place but pakistan to live.

Posted by Anitha | Report as abusive

To survive, Pakistan has to do the following:

Take India out of the psyche. This obsessive mistrust/anger/vengeance/contempt attitude has to go. It reflects in every walk of a Pakistani mind set. Otherwise, they will never come out of it.

If Zardari had not succumbed to this feeling when Mumbai attacks happened, by now, India and Pakistan could have worked towards nailing the cause of the terrorist plots.

Instead, what he and his countrymen did the following:

1. Wash off the issue as a home grown issue in India.
2. Declare that Kasab is not a Pakistani
3. Declare that all terrorists who died in Mumbai were not from Pakistan
4. Declare that India’s security system was to blame for the attacks
5. Reluctantly arrest some militant leaders and do nothing beyond that.
6. Declare that all those who committed the act in Mumbai were non state actors
7. Declare that Pakistan itself is a victim of terrorism
8. Not moving until the US began to push Pakistan with evidence.
9. Fire the minister who admitted that Kasab was a Pakistani
10. Waiting for India to provide all evidence and simply ignoring India’s concerns.
11. When provided with all the evidence, declare it as mere information.
12. Getting into the act once again after the US put pressure to go along.
13. Give another huge list to the Indians and send them home to come up with more information.

Three months have elapsed and the valuable time has given the terrorists to have a cigar, refresh and start again. The reason for all this is the attitude. Can never work with India even if the cause is a good one. No Pakistani wants to be branded as someone working with India. That is worse than being stoned to death in Pakistan.

Looks like the same criminals have targeted the Sri Lankan cricket team. The purpose is simple. This will point a finger at India first – retaliation for Mumbai attacks, India did not like SL going to Pakistan etc.. SL toured Pakistan before that too and India did not send in a special commando unit to attack them then. Countries refused to tour Pakistan then also. If SL refused to tour India citing security reasons and went to Pakistan instead, at least there is a faint reason to believe India is jealous.

Either this team of criminals is a new one in the game. Their method looks very different. They are not resorting to suicide bombings or blasting with detonators. They seem to send in well trained militants who seem to know commando style operations very well.

One thing is becoming certain. These elements are coming from somewhere in Pakistan. The training of these men seems to indicate that a military system is involved. They do not want the US to get too close into Pakistan. They are getting very uncomfortable with the fact that the US will slowly and surely expose a lot of machinations being drawn up by the military/intelligence system inside Pakistan, with its own agenda. They do not want this war on terrorism. The focus is beginning to shift from Afghanistan to Pakistan. And they want out. So a new front has been unleashed that is designed to draw India into a conflict. It is also trying to rattle the flimsy government so that it can take over again citing instability.

Pakistan’s attempts at India remind me of the Road Runner cartoon. The coyote tries different things and keeps getting hurt. If we are looking at the collapse of Pakistan today, it is due to this anti-Indian mind set over 60 odd years that has led to this state.

In a civilized world transition would be usually from Agriculture to Manufacturing to Services to Specialization.
In a different world, transition is Religion to Religious School to Jihad to Terrorism.

Consider taking out Pakistan’s nukes and dismantling Iran’s Nuclear capabilities. Encourage India play a major part in Afghanistan. Let a strong India-Afghan-Iran nexus grow. This will initiate a competition between China & India. The Central front i.e. Pakistan will be nailed from two sides, Eastern & Western. U.S can comfortably pull back from Afghanistan, work-load shifted to India. Three things guaranteed – decrease in expenditure, reduction in anti-US feelings, creating a strong competitor to China.
This is with the understanding that India will co-operate because it bore the burnt of Terrorism than any other country on the earth. It aspires to be a regional power. It has got enough population and some body bags would not raise public resentment. It is a proven democracy and can be contained at a later stage if things go wrong.
Proof that India will co-operate is – One, it has offered US to use its soil to launch attacks on Afghanistan before the start of the war, and US foolishly chose Pakistan. Two, India is contributing to developmental aspects in Afghanistan by laying roads, providing support facilities that connect it with Iran directly. It says it has got age-old relations with Iran. It has offered to help set up a democratic system in Afghanistan. It is seriously considering to upgrade its space programs to counter any likely threat of China.
Can India be an answer to the woes of US in the Region?

Posted by durga prasad | Report as abusive

@Adam Khan , while we are both entitled to our opinions, the reality is, those doing the terrorism those funding them (saudi-wahhabi), those traing, supporting militarily and morally (Pak Military, ISI), those complacent (PaK Politicians ans citizens) are all guilty of the condition of Pak, their collective action, concious choices, throughts and activities have brought Pakistan where it is today. The details are really quite irrelevant. There is a pervasive and evil force at work, fueled from Saudi money to bring chaos, death, war, no cost is too high for them, lives are cheap and body count is irrelevant, so long as their brand of Islam is spread, this is their goal, to exploit weak countries like Pakistan.

We have made the terrorists rich by using their gas. We the west are partly to blame, in that we made them so rich so they can do anything they want. Pakistan would not have been a much more peaceful country if it was not radicalized by Saudi monies and corrupt men like Nawaz Sharif who are in bed with him and soldiers of Wahabi expansionism.

Let’s not get bogged down in trivialities and call it what it truly is at its core. You don’t see Hindus citizens and hindu gunmen going to different countries all over the world, causing terrorism. Pakistan is just another bad symptom of something globally more retrograde and sinister.

Posted by Global Watcher | Report as abusive

Mauran:

Your diatribe against Pakistan is typical of the poverty stricken slumdog country that produces slums more than intelligence.

80% of Inidans live under $20 per day. Half of Mumbai is slum like the one shown on Slumdog Millionaire. Kolkota, Dehli, Hydrabad, Lucknow are no better, actually worse. India intoxicated by meager success is blind to real self-portrait of caste infested penury and balkanization

http://rupeenews.com/2008/11/28/mumbai-i ntoxicated-india-deaf-blind-to-internal- terror-unable-to-introspect-resolve-its- huge-race-caste-religious-problems/

If India want to survive begin you reduce the bloated head and stop makig wars with all your neighbors, and make peace with Sri Lanka, Bangaldesh, Sikkim, Bhutan, Nepal, Pakistan and China.

As pointed out by Myra and Ambassador Bhadrakumar, in a changing world order Indian real stature is smaller than that of Hait. On the huger Indiex it is lower than Barkino Faso

CORRECTION: In previous post it should have said $2 per day.

Reuters has become the Starbucks for all those who hate Pakistan–a gathering place for everyone and anyone who has an axe to grind against Islamabad. During the Mumbai insurgency in India it ran stories by Indians. During the attack on Pakistan by Indian agents and LTTE terrorists, the Reuters blog is silen. The Reuters blog run by Pakistanphobes Myra McDonald and others usually gather up the anti-Pakistan news and puts it in one spot for all the Anti-Pakistan bigots to cherish and worship. Even Myra McDonald and her bigoted team now suggests that the sane strategy for the US is to hand over Afghanistan to Pakistan.

Fixing AfPak: Inability to define Exit strategy spells inevitable US military catastrophy in Kabul: http://rupeenews.com/2009/03/01/fixing-a fpak-inability-to-define-exit-strategy-s pells-inevitable-us-military-catastrophy -in-kabul/

India behind LTTE Terrorists in Lanka: Impact of RAW attack on Lankans in Lahore
http://rupeenews.com/2009/03/03/india-be hind-ltte-terrorists-in-lanka-implicatio n-of-raw-attack-on-lankans-in-lahore/

Myra
“The first question to ask is whether Pakistan has now become the central front in the battle against al Qaeda and its Islamist allies in the Taliban and other militant groups.”

—No, on the contrary Pakistan IS the epicenter of “al Qaeda and its Islamist allies in the Taliban and other militant groups.”

“A second question is whether Pakistan, rather than Afghanistan, has been the primary target of al Qaeda all along.”
— Flawed query – neither Afghanistan nor Pakistan have ever been the ‘target’ of the Al-Queda, why will it harm the hands that feed it? It’s the civilized world that’s pakistan’s target, the Al Queda’s et al are mere tools in Pakistani hands.

“The third question, of course, is what the international community will do. The United States has already pledged financial and diplomatic support for the country’s struggling civilian government; invitedPakistan Army chief General Ashfaq Kayani …”

— Pakistan Army chief General Ashfaq Kayani does NOT represents the civilian government – the clandestine monetary support been given to the Pak Army by the US of A, of which a large chunk will be used for breeding terrorist, exposes the hideous face of America – in this case it’s from the US that the international community must demand to rein it’s pet monster –Pakistan, & it’s high-time, Americans, the self-appointed ‘torch-bearer’s’ of ‘human rights’ & ‘world order’ stop their power crazy ‘think-tanks’ from using human beings as guineapigs for their sadistic ventures & go for mass rehabilitation & detoxification for their control-freak behavioral disorder.

—If remedial implementations are not resorted to , i.e. neutralize the ///pak Army- then the implications for world peace in the long run is anyone’s guess.

Posted by Anup | Report as abusive

“If we are looking at the collapse of Pakistan today, it is due to this anti-Indian mind set over 60 odd years that has led to this state.”

—Within minutes of Mauryan posting the above cited- Moin Ansari proves him true…

Posted by anup | Report as abusive

@Myra, I guess I was a little wrong, there are actually SOME Pakistanis who are trying to protect their country, at least themselves first.

http://www.csmonitor.com/2009/0304/p06s0 1-wosc.html

@Moin Ansari,

First of all don’t lecture to Indians about caste, constitutionally and legally, India has come a long way to equalization of all peoples. The caste system is a socio-economic system similar to feudalism in Europe. It takes time to melt away, as there is so muc inertia from the psychological stain of castes. A lot of caste instigated inferiority is actually self-imposed. Your idea of India making peace with all of the countries is by India asceding free land and just giving it away, or you are talking about money. All minorities in India, if they choose can make a better life for themselves.

What sort of positive actions have you taken to improve your life, the life of the average Pakistani today, my friend?

Have you taken a stand against like the Taliban, like your friends in Peshawar, mentioned in the article above? The Indian caste system of old, and the slums of India are the least of your worries, my friend, neither are a threat to Pakistan. I am a Brahmin Hindu, by birth but have turned away from the old ways, I have friends of all castes and faiths, I am proud to say, I don’t think you can say the same. I believe all religions are equal and all humans are equal. The new generation in India is embracing the future, while Pakistani’s like you remain stuck, embracing the past.

Its intelligent of you to point out India’s stature. India has a space program, IT (in Pak, it is called International Terrorism), a Global Grade Military to be, Bollywood, much export to the world, largest democracy in the world and largest non-resident supplier of brainpower to the United States of America. Indians are respected and liked very much in the United States.

Mr. Ansari, your jeolousy, hatred and re-affirmations of the past are dark-age mentalities, which re-affirm the negative constructs, which Pakistan has used to falsely embolden and polarize its citizens is the same mentality taking Pakistan to the edge of a cliff with no brakes.

Posted by Global Watcher | Report as abusive

I think Global Watcher provide good understanding of the what is happening in Pakistan with his comments above.

The only way to control this mess is to wake the Pakistani public and remind them of their responsibilities as a citizen of the world to live in peace with each other and their neighbors. Pakistan’s neighbors have the responsibility to help their neighbors in need.
If Pakistan goes the way Afghanistan, what is next a destabilize India due to Kashmir issue.

Posted by denali | Report as abusive

Here is a comment by David Miliband and see what reaction he got from the Indians the peace loving people on earth.

Although I understand the current difficulties, resolution of the dispute over Kashmir would help deny extremists in the region one of their main calls to arms, and allow Pakistani authorities to focus more effectively on tackling the threat on their western borders,” he said.

Comment by Indian

His comments drew an angry response from his Indian hosts. A spokesman for its Ministry of External Affairs said: “We do not need his unsolicited advice on internal matters of India like Jammu and Kashmir.”

Why it that we never hear how many people are are being killed in Kashmir or why Western Media is not allowed in Kashmir or how many soldiers are stationed there.
Why won’t India want to solve the Kashmir crisis??
If someone can answer that??
Pakistan has been trying for any International country to assist them with this problem but India makes comments like that to discourage them and has done so for over 20 years.
You can’t play the victim card all the time.

@Moin Ansari,

Moin Ansari says ” The Reuters blog run by Pakistanphobes Myra McDonald and others usually gather up the anti-Pakistan news and puts it in one spot for all the Anti-Pakistan bigots to cherish and worship. Even Myra McDonald and her bigoted team now suggests that the sane strategy for the US is to hand over Afghanistan to Pakistan.”

Mr. Ansari, I am sorry you are dissappointed that in the world outside Pakistan, we do not point fingers and blame with out hard evidence, like they do in Pakistan. We do not indulge in elaborate plausible denial conspiracy theory blame stories.

I find it reprehensible that you bash Reuters for not starting a blog on a mere conspiracy story that Indian RAW was involved in the cricket incident. Listen to yourself, my friend, is this what has become of Pakistan? More blame and conspiracy stories? Is there anyone there left, with some intelligence and integrity? You expect Pakistani’s to be taken seriously in the world, after you expect Reuters to entertain a blog on a conspircy blame game? Get real.

Myra is objective as I have ever seen. You should apologize to Reuters for blaming them as Bigoted, that is uncalled for.

You are delusional and backwards my friend. You post an article written by you and pass it off as a news source to quote yourself on this blog? How absurd can you be?

Lastly, the LTTE is not propped up by India. It is propped up by expatriates living abroad, outside in Europe, the US, Canada and other countries, citizens who pool their money at Hindu temples hoping to support the Eelam. But their money is being used for terrorism. It is not different than money Zakat money collected during EID. All of the Mosques in north american are under some sort of terrorism watch, since money collected from Mosques has been traced to end up in the hands of Al-Qaeda.

I think you are in the wrong business my friend. You are unobjective and do not have supporting facts of any kind.

Posted by Global Watcher | Report as abusive

Every time I communicate with a Pakistani, whether on this forum or elsewhere, they do not even address what I am saying. They start off by saying, “Your India is full of poverty, illiteracy, AIDS, filth, squalor and so on.” They seem to find it demeaning to talk to an Indian, at least on the electronic forums. In person, I have come across nice and polished Pakistanis and the courtesy accordingly has been good from me as well.

Mr. Moin Ansari, based on the response I see on this forum by Pakistanis in general, I discern an attitude built on ignorance mostly. India has a huge military, nukes, missiles, intelligence agencies etc.. But they are meant exclusively for its security. They are accountable. All commands for them come from publicly elected representatives. They cannot take law on to their hands. Some do and they are brought to the courts for justice. Your people are comparing the military/intelligence system in your country to that in India while ignoring the democratic system that runs it. In Pakistan, your military has no accountability. It has an agenda on its own. Democracy never took roots there and it probably never will. Our system will not allow the government agencies to engage in surreptitious activities without approval from the government, which can change every five years. If one party initiated something while in power, another party can come to power and question everything done. In 1977, the first and last time democracy proved its power by bringing to justice, the corrupt Prime Minister who declared emergency in 1975 and shut out all government institutions.

Considering the size of India, changes are expected to be slow and anything accomplished can be averaged out by the large numbers involved (per capita income, GDP etc). Pakistan’s numbers look good because of a relatively smaller population. The reality is very different.

You guys are about to fall into a deep chasm. And you are turning your backs to it and laughing at India which seems to have reached a safer place. Look behind you and do something to survive.

Myra,

Pakistan was always the central front in the war against Islamist terrorists. The West discovered it recently. I hope after the Lahore attacks Pakistan finds the will – less likely – to actually fight terrorism out.

The implications, to list a few are,

1) Likelihood of more surprise terrorist attacks across the subcontinent

2) The need for more regional cooperation in Afghanistan & Pakistan

3) The need for more patience & resilience to stamp out sources of terror based in Pakistan

4) Likelihood of more migration – legal and illegal – from Pakistan to India, UAE and the West.

Posted by Nikhil | Report as abusive

Dear Mr. Mauyan, it is this very inability of the Pakistan in general that they see only what they helucinate. Like going to heaven while raping, drinking, killing, going to office mosques with bribe money in their pockets and then contributing part of it to the Lord. Prophet Muhammed promissed Freedom to weak, poor and the Woman in particular and their right to agree to be wedded loudly three times. He Promised Freedom of Religion. Almost all able to be corrupt Pakistanis are corrupt but surprisingly devout Muslims too. They dont see the contradiction in their actions. India has been slaughtered in the name of bringing Purity to the sinful land, but instead what we see is devastation only of worst kind brought in the region by these helucinating holy warriors. I am a third generation Muslim from Kashmiri Pundit ancesstory who migrated to Pakistan and then luckily on to the USA and am wondering gravely, what a Fatal Attraction these holy warriors offer to us that we cannot refuse.

Posted by NJunaid | Report as abusive

Myra,

Pakistan was always the central front in the war against Islamist terrorists. The West discovered it recently. I hope after the Lahore attacks Pakistan finds the will – less likely – to actually fight terrorism out.

The implications, to list a few are,

1) The likelihood of more surprise terrorist attacks across the subcontinent

2) The need for more regional cooperation in Afghanistan & Pakistan

3) The need for more patience & resilience to stamp out sources of terror based in Pakistan

4) The likelihood of more sectarian strife among different groups inside Pakistan

5) The likelihood of more migration – legal and illegal – from Pakistan to India, UAE and the West.

Posted by Nikhil | Report as abusive

http://www.pakspectator.com/interview-wi th-blogger-moin-ansari/

It seems, that Mr. Ansari is a self-polished, pro-Islamist expansionist, democracy-hating individual who slews slanted views on historical events with an Islamicist twists. Please refer to his link above. You be the judge.

Mr. Ansari, you are doing a great disservice to your country men by making them live in fear and hate of others.

You are pro-pakistani, pro-islamic and anti-western through and through and will never entertain reason or ignore it entirely as it does not suit your hate-filled rants agains the west and india.

You entertain elaborate conspiracy stories against anyone you can get your hands on.

It is opinions of people like this, that are keeping Pakistani’s ignorant and daft.

Congratulations for two decades, reinforcing negativity on your own people. You keep reminding them that they are under attack by a boogeyman, that is what they will keep believing. It is obvious that you do.

I pity you.

Posted by Global Watcher | Report as abusive

Mujeeb Wrote:
“Why won’t India want to solve the Kashmir crisis??
If someone can answer that??”

Kashmir is an integral part of India, If Pakistan thinks it belongs to them, then take it. But openly not by means of terrorism.

Whatever India has done bad to pakistan is open, we carved out Bangladesh out of you openly, if you have guts to attack us then do it, otherwise forget it and concentrate on your economy.

What good a part of land will do to you if you all guys die of hunger ??
Haha as you said
If someone can answer that??

Posted by punjabiyaar | Report as abusive

First of all, South Asian Region has got a very complex politics, where Pakistan and India both thrive for regions gains through various means. One should not present India as an angel of peace and clean from every sin. USA, India and Western countries have common interest in South Asian region and want to see their plans implemented through every mean.

Some of the plans include destruction of Pakistani nukes, Destroying and demonising the Pakistani Army, disintegration Pakistan, complete occupation of Afghanistan, taing control of the natural resources of Central Asia, and launching a proxy war in China Tibbet from Afghanistan. They started by supporting weak, corrupt and secular governments in Pakistan. Then they started sending terrorist in Pakistan to destabalise the whole country. These terrorists are trained in Afghanistan. Media is in the control of the west and they blame who ever they want to blame. ANP in NWFP, MQM in Karachi, BLA in Balochistan and elements in Taliban are the work of these foreign intelligence agencies, but the media print them to be uncontrolled organisation running inside Pakistan and a threat to the ragional countries. There are 86 recognised insurgencies in India. Indian government has no control over 30% of its territory which are mainly noth eastern and many other. The world media, because of their alliance with India never mention the threat of these insurgencies to Indian government.

Now in this scenario, Pakistan is playing the game of its survival. Still there are some people among the politicians, Military and general public who understand the western and Indian plans and trying to save Pakistan. Dividing Pakistan will destroy the whole region by giving a free hand to all Militant organisation in Pakistan to operate freely in the whole subcontinent. Destroying Pakistan will give Nuclear India a free hand in the region as well, which will ultimately undermine the security of China, Iran and Saudi Arabia. Especially China and Saudi Arabia will fuel insurdency in the region and it will result in vietnam. After 10 or 15 years Pakistan will re-emerge as an islamic fundamentalist state with its territory including Prasent Afghanistan,Pakistan,India and Bandladesh. But there are some non war solutions to handle the situation:

1)The world has to understand Pakistan\’s fear about regional influence especially Afghanistan. India has used Afghanistan as their base for insurgency in Pakistan now and in the past. The affairs of Afghanistan has to be left to Pakistan, so it can install the government of its own choice.
2)The world powers have to force India to destroy all its nukes and reduce the size of its military and in return it would become easy to convince Pakistan to do the same.
3) USA should negotiate with China and Russia over its stake in central asia for providing stake to Russia and China in African continent.

But the war think tank have other plans.

Posted by Shahid | Report as abusive

Mujeeb,

David Milliband, you are quoting the lowest common denominator to re-strengthen your position. He is neither a statesman, a politician, an emissary nor an ambassador of any kind, but a pure befuddled rookie who mispoke and embarassed himself and his mission.

You might as well as had a guy working at Starbucks use the same quote he did, i t does not carry any true weight.

The fact of the matter is, the world needs to use bone crushing diplomacy and address Pakistani’s directly to stop the madrass terrorism. The citizens are the last stop. Pak military and government are untrustworthy and incompetant.

Kashmir, even the land on Pakistan belongs what was originally India. If you want to start Kashmir, I will pull out all the stops and address each genocide on Indians one by one, since 1200 years past.

Posted by Global watcher | Report as abusive

“Whatever India has done badly to Pakistan is open, we carved out Bangladesh out of you openly, and if you have guts to attack us then do it”.

This what Sardar Jee thinks like most Indians.

This is exactly what is wrong with this world. We have a Power Full nation that is spending most of its energy on Pakistan. This is why terrorism is being used by smaller countries trying to fight a bigger enemy. India is like a Dr Jackal and Mr. Hide, it tells the world that they are suffering and on the other hand they are subjecting the people of Kashmir with atrocities. Kashmir is the root cause of all these Problems.
Now to your second Question If Pakistan would like to take it by force.
Here is what the World needs to see why India is obsessed with Pakistan and not Pakistan obsessed with India. India broke Pakistan in half (Bangladesh) and now with the pretext of Kashmir it is trying to do the same again. India has never accepted Pakistan as another country and it shows.
Pakistan Army is designed to give a Fitting reply to a much bigger enemy if they dare attack. Bombay got attacked and what happened?? Did you attack Pakistan NO! This is why Pakistan is driving you Indians crazy.

UK foreign secretary, David Miliband

Mujeeb said:

“it tells the world that they are suffering and on the other hand they are subjecting the people of Kashmir with atrocities.”

Mujeeb, you want to talk attrocities? While it is erased or never entered the history books in Pakistan, the Pakistani military systematically murdered/genocided 2.5 million Hindus in Bangladesh as well as 500,000 muslims.

While you guys keep a sanitized, separate set of history books in Pakistan for politically brainwashing your people and polarizing them to fuel hate against India, the world has one set of historical events, one set of books regarding Pakistani history. You should go to any western library and compare notes.

Bangladesh does not want to be a part of the dysfunctional and corrupt Pakistan, they want to be away from Pakistani occupation, corruption and dictatorship.

Please don’t forget your dear Fauji Gen. Niazi surrendered to India. You can google it and see the pictures. 90,000 Pak POW’s, the man had tears in his eyes as he signed the paper. Similar thing with Kargil.

Quit this sick historical obsession and focus on providing a proper worldly education to your children.

I would not doubt it if the Pak Military had a hand in insubordinate Fauji’s (Soldiers) who turned on their superiors in a power grab in Bangladesh, to attempt destablizing it.

Posted by Global Watcher | Report as abusive

@While on cricket, Ian Botham said a long-time ago that Pakistan was the kind of place one should send one’s mother-in-law to.”
- Posted by tango

–What a gem! and that was more than 20 yrs ago.

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive

@Although I understand the current difficulties, resolution of the dispute over Kashmir would help deny extremists in the region one of their main calls to arms, and allow Pakistani authorities to focus more effectively on tackling the threat on their western borders,” he said.
-posted by Mujeeb

Mujeeb, perhaps a little hurdle that terrorists and theirn sympathizers have stated to spread Islam all over India and put an Islamic Flag on Red fort. So no peace in reality. Can you address that.

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive

Shahid says:

“2)The world powers have to force India to destroy all its nukes and reduce the size of its military and in return it would become easy to convince Pakistan to do the same.”

I am so sorry Umair, it may seem that I was picking on you. It seems like the rest of Pakistan is just as stupid, including your buddy Shahid here.

Why would India decrease its military size? Why would India be forced to toss its nukes? India has never invaded another country to occupy it for any reason for 8000 years, my blood descended, once a Hindu, many generations ago, friend.

Pakistan does not need to be afraid of India. India does not want to invade Pakistan, or see it fail. India just wants Pakistan to stop the terrorism, hatred, and fueling of terrorism training camps again India.

India will never attack Pakistan first. But if Pakistan initiates an unprovoked attack on India, India will not just provide a befitting reply, it will be a disproportionately much more massive, conclusive and humbling of a response. That is guaranteed.

Never ever entertain a Pakistani response, it will not happen because India will never attack first. If Pakistan attacks first, it will take 6 minutes for that reply and there will be no where to hide and there will be no time for a pakistani response.

Posted by Global Watcher | Report as abusive

Global watcher wrote:
“But if Pakistan initiates an unprovoked attack on India, India will not just provide a befitting reply, it will be a disproportionately much more massive, conclusive and humbling of a response. That is guaranteed.

Look Global watcher when you talk about Pakistan, a 170 million strong muslim nuclear power armed with atom bombs and ballistic missiles you need to be very careful. You might think India could try to use disproportionate force against Pakistan. \

Pakistan Air Force F-16 squadrons based at Sargodha airbase armed with tactical nuclear devices, two strike corps of Pakistan Army located in Sindh and Punjab, nuclear capable Shaheen and Ghauri ballistic missiles, German and French naval submarines and warships deployed by Pakistan Navy. A formidable intelligence network deployed by the ISI, Pakistan will spell complete disaster for India. Before you pick up a fight you must do your SWOT(Strenght, weakness, opportnity, threat) analysis.

Within minutes of any Indian attack, a massive counter attack by Pakistan will blow the crap out of India. You dont want this do you? so stop your rants.

Indian disproprtionate force against Pakistan’s strength. My foot.

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive

Myra

Thank you for this post, I did visited the links you have shared and now my knowledge of the fast chanigng regional situation in Pakistan is upto speed now as I was little off track with recent developments.
I saw some posters criticized you of bias and incorrect reporting, I have found your posts informative & thought provoking.

Coming back to your question:
“Has Pakistan become the central front in the battle against al Qaeda and Islamist militants? And if so, what are the implications?”

About a year or more back, I think “The Economist” ran a story on its front pages

“The war on terror might being fought at many fronts, but ultimately it will be in Pakistan where it will be won or lost”.

Pakistan hols the key, I think what we are witnessing now a realization by US. They know the mess up of Soviet occupation, civil war that followed in Afghanistan resulted in the anarchic situation Afghnaistan is today.

In Pakistan, the US has an old ally. Pakistan has the credentials to do the job, all it needs is the tools. Pakistan needs to stand on its own feet, politically and economically.

As far as implications are concerned, I think Pakistan will overcome this situation and things will change for better. I am not hoping against hope, but trying to be objective.

Thanks

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive

Mujeeb:
@Pakistan Army is designed to give a Fitting reply to a much bigger enemy if they dare attack. Bombay got attacked and what happened?? – Posted by Mujeeb
–BEEP BEEP…..There is an error message that Pakistan Army is MALFUNCTIONING against much smaller enemy Taliban.

@Did you attack Pakistan NO! This is why Pakistan is driving you Indians crazy.
–You are right—NO. Only a stupid will attack pakistan at this stage. India is relaxing and watching you implode. What is the need to attack.

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive

Umair Wrote:
“A formidable intelligence network deployed by the ISI, Pakistan will spell complete disaster for India, Before you pick up a fight you must do your SWOT(Strenght, weakness, opportnity, threat) analysis. ”

Before you even imagine an Indian attack, you must remember your SWAT (Safest Wahabee anarchist territory) defeat.

Posted by punjabiyaar | Report as abusive

HI
i came across a comment by a guy called shahid (on 4th march, at 8:47pm)
This is a synopsis of what he has to say ….

1: INDIA AND U.S. HAVE MADE A SECRET PLAN TO OCCUPY AFGHANISTAN , PAKISTAN AND TIBET TO UTILIZE THEIR NATURAL RESOURCES.

2: THE TERRORISTS IN PAKISTAN ARE ACTUALLY INDIAN MILITANTS (TRAINED IN AFGHANISTAN), SENT TO DESTABILIZE PAKISTAN .

3: INDIAN GOVERNMENT IS IN A SECRET “ALLIANCE” WITH WESTERN MEDIA AND WORKING WITH THEM TO MALIGN PAKISTAN.
4: INDIA HAS ALWAYS USED AFGHANISTAN TO LAUNCH ATTACKS ON PAKISTAN . AFGHANISTAN SHOULD BE LEFT TO PAKISTANIS SO THAT THEY CAN “INSTALL THE GOVERNMENT OF THEIR OWN CHOICE”.

5: SOME PAKISTANI POLITICIANS HAVE FIGURED OUT THESE EVIL PLANS AND THEY ARE WORKING TO SAVE PAKISTAN.

6: THE FUTURE …

* INDIA SUCCESSFULLY DIVIDES PAKISTAN .
* INDIA TRIES TO SUBDUE CHINA , IRAN AND SAUDI ARABIA .
* CHINA AND SAUDI ARABIA SEND THEIR OWN MILITANTS TO THE REGION AND THE SITUATION TURNS INTO A “VIETNAM”.
* AFTER 10-15 YEARS PAKISTAN “RE-EMERGES AS AN ISLAMIC FUNDAMENTALIST STATE WHOSE TERRITORY INCLUDES PRESENT DAY AFGHANISTAN , PAKISTAN , INDIA AND BANGLADESH”.

and everybody lives happily ever after .
this guy is quite imaginative . this is a typical star wars plot.
THIS GUY IS A GENIUS . AND VERY VERY FUNNY..

Posted by Gill | Report as abusive

Umair Says:

“Look Global watcher when you talk about Pakistan, a 170 million strong muslim nuclear power armed with atom bombs and ballistic missiles you need to be very careful. You might think India could try to use disproportionate force against Pakistan. \

Pakistan Air Force F-16 squadrons based at Sargodha airbase armed with tactical nuclear devices, two strike corps of Pakistan Army located in Sindh and Punjab, nuclear capable Shaheen and Ghauri ballistic missiles, German and French naval submarines and warships deployed by Pakistan Navy. A formidable intelligence network deployed by the ISI, Pakistan will spell complete disaster for India. Before you pick up a fight you must do your SWOT(Strenght, weakness, opportnity, threat)”
analysis.

Within minutes of any Indian attack, a massive counter attack by Pakistan will blow the crap out of India. You dont want this do you? so stop your rants.

Indian disproprtionate force against Pakistan’s strength. My foot.

By the way Umair, my friend, India is 1.2 Billion, with more and more powerful nukes. You need to brag, while Indian’s don’t you know why, their arnenal is far superior technically. Also your F-16 are old technology from 1970′s you keep bragging about those ancient F-16′s, do you realize that even third world countries are flying F-18′s and some are purchasing even F-22′s soon?

Well India has the MIG 30 and soon to receive an updated version of it. Far superior avionics and plane that the F-16 and the Mirage by France. India has double the amount of planes there fore double the amount of firepower. INdia also has more than double the amount of tanks as well as better tanks. Indian’s don’t brag like you do, we don’t need to. We know you can be flattened, so we don’t need to bring up nukes and F-16′s constantly, like you do.

Just remember friend, 1.2 billion. The world will call for Pakistan’s destruction if it uses Nukes first. The nukes have put much fuel and hot air in your Pakistani ego.

It is time to take them away, for good.

Posted by Global Watcher | Report as abusive

Gill,

Shahid and his country men all suffer from a collective mental illness.

Here are some symptoms of it:

-blaming others
-not taking responsiblity
-flip flopping and reversals (Mumbai)
-starting a fight then blaming the other guy (Kargil, 1971)
-Islamic Superiority complex
-saying the country is fine, given all the terrorism, even cricket is not safe
-proxy wars on India and Afghanistan
-corrupt leaders
-no economy
-assasinations of heads of state
-army-civilian rule cycle
-constant support of terrorist network

Posted by Global Watcher | Report as abusive

[...] Pakistan: Now or Never? Blog Archive Has Pakistan become the central front? | Blogs | [...]

Myra,

Either you are writing just to provoke us, which is bad and not ethical, or there is something seriously wrong with the US.

Assuming its the second case, this is what I think.

They have spend tax dollars or the American people and indirectly of the global public which invests in their economy on Pakistan, its Army, the Taliban and more importantly on the ultimate devil from an American perspective – AQ.

What did they get in return – 9/11, Rough Nuke Scientists, Broken promises and a bankrupt economy.

Well, whose money is all these that they trow around. I guess someone is going to ask these fundamental questions and Obama will just look like Bush and worse.

It would be better the Americans do themselves a favour and leave. Just imagine the resentment that they are going to face in India if they choose to move closed to Pakistan which fundamental problems of their own making.

No amount of money and military support is ever going to address the fundamental problem in Pakistan – sectarian divide. The Punjabis used to rule, now, the Pakhtuns, the Baluchis and the Sindis want their share of power. Let the Punjabis step aside – starting with the Army. Things will stabilize.

I have not seen any specific reports of people other than Punjabis and Kashmiris engaging in terrorist operations in India.

I guess we now need to do a Bangladesh on Pakistan this time over and things will settle down for the better, but not with war, but with an economic and social blockade. Who looses most in this game – The Chinese and to some extend the Punjabis. Who gains – Americans, Indians, Iranians, Pakhtuns, Sindhis, Baluchis and to a certain extend the Taliban.

Either way, the Talibans only have more to gain. And who are they – nothing but AQ. To solve this problem, we just need to ensure that they are routed in Afganistan itself.

The more I look at it, Myra, you were just provoking.

Posted by Jacob | Report as abusive

Will my belligerent pakistani friends on this comment list read this article by a wise pakistani journalist. http://www.tehelka.com/story_main40.asp? filename=Ne061208irfan_husain.asp
This man, irfan hussain, gives me hope that there are sane cultured people in Pakistan who want to live and let live in peace. But unfortunately they are getting drowned out. I’m sure most of the one’s who have commented here are not devious michief makers. But they sure are gullible and incredulous and do not make an effort to question the drivel being scooped into their brains. In any case, this is a goner. This is how it is going to go down. Afetr SWAT, the Taliban (and through it Al Qaeeda) will slowly, district by district, take a stanglehold of Pakistan and its nukes thereby. For AlQaida, a weak and vulnerable Pakistan is the key to their goals. After that, whom do you think they are going to use their nuclear weapons on? Israel, US, and India (I think in that order). But before this happens, Israel and US may move in. Worldwide Economic depression and mullah madness are the right recipe for another catastrophe like WW2. I used to get very concerned by the extreme state of denial by young paksitani’s. But now I’m quite resigned to the fact that hey will not change, as it is not their fault. They are too brainwashed on conspiracies and superiority/inferiority complexes to see things in the right way. This thing is going all the way down to the end. Hopefully, a better world will arise after that. So hope is all that mankind has left afterall.

Posted by sear | Report as abusive

Myra,

The Atlantic Council report is well – timed, the crux of the matter is Pakistan is in deep crisis , and whether further injunction money in addition to IMF and regular US aid will help them? There are multiple problems in Pakistan , failing economy also adds to the existing ones, presence of nuclear weapons also pose a greater threat to world peace and regional stability . Now the question, what should be done to help Pakistan ? Pakistan army and ISI and other terrorists organization are interested in maintaining this present situation, as a stable Pakistan will make them loose their precious source of revenue from illicit drug and narcotic trade being operated from bordering areas of Pakistan and Afghanistan .

Now the most vital aspect is when was pakistan stable , eversince the death of Jinnah, Pakistan had always been in turmoil , Pak army and its scrupulous generals continued to mislead the Pakistanis about imaginative threat from India , which helped them to maintain tight grip on the power , Afghanistan invasion by former USSR also assisted them .

The present situation in Pakistan compounding effect of mismanagement of the country since the death of Jinnah. now the point is what can be done to help Pakistan?

Posted by anju2008 | Report as abusive

Boy, check this out. Fresh from the press
http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/Dawn %20Content%20Library/dawn/news/pakistan/ nwfp/pashtun-poet-rehman-baba-mausoleum- bombed–qs

do the paksitani’s on this comment thread really think this is normal?

Posted by sear | Report as abusive

Myra,

With all due respect,unless you were in deep comatose for last few decades or were just drop over from venus you wouldn’t know that India has been crying out loud that pakistan is the heart of terror. Period.

Posted by vivek | Report as abusive

Rahman Baba (whose tomb was bombed by the fanatics in Pak today) wrote simple and touching poetry. Here is one. Considering the situation in Pak today, it is ironical. Instead of empty hot air boasts of their F16s and army, if the Paki’s had instead turned to the strength of their spiritual ancestors, they would be in much better shape as a country. Here it is…

Sow flowers so your surroundings become a garden
Don’t sow thorns; for they will prick your feet

If you shoot arrows at others,
Know that the same arrow will come back to hit you.

Don’t dig a well in another’s path,
In case you come to the well’s edge

You look at everyone with hungry eyes
But you will be first to become mere dirt.

Humans are all one body,
Whoever tortures another, wounds himself.

– Rahman Baba

Posted by sear | Report as abusive

check these editorials from leading Pakistan Dailies

http://www.thenews.com.pk/daily_detail.a sp?id=165775

or the second editorial in this page (see bottom half)

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp  ?page=2009%5C03%5C05%5Cstory_5-3-2009_p g3_1

There are sane Pakistanis, but not on this comment thread.

Posted by sear | Report as abusive

“In 1947, when the British pulled out of India and the partition of the subcontinent into India and Pakistan took place, the ruler of Kashmir was a Hindu despite the fact that most of his subjects were Muslims. He fled to India and ceded his state to India. India then seized two-thirds of the territory, notwithstanding fierce popular resistance and, of course, opposition from Pakistan, which managed to take one-third of Kashmir. The situation was the reverse in Hyderabad, where the ruler was Muslim but the vast majority of his subjects were Hindus. He refused to cede his state to India, whereupon in 1948, Indian forces invaded and took Hyderabad. So New Delhi had it both ways, by military force.”

Here is an example of how people lie and distort truth. Maybe you guys don’t know any better or you have been reading the wrong history books (like some said in the last post). People just don’t become Terrorist one day, a lot of injustice has to happen for this kind of reaction to take place.
“One man’s terrorist is another man’s freedom fighter”.
India is big country and has over one billion people who are respected all over the world and have all the advantages over their Pakistani neighbor Yet you are not content with that, you have (Greed) you want more and you want to lie and make the world feel sorry for you, Yet you are the ones Terrorizing the Kashmir people with brute brutality.
I feel each and every Indian knows the Truth about Kashmir and this is the reason why they don’t want any one (International Community) to help resolve this issue.
They want Pakistan broken up and will not stop till that objective has been met.
India must come clean once and for all and stop the lies. I hope this is a reminder that TRUTH always prevail.
Stop Interfering in Pakistan’s internal problems and let Pakistan go on and live in peace.

Here is an other tid bid about the Peace Loving Country India.

In spite of its agreement, India has always refused to allow the people of Jammu and Kashmir to express their will in accordance with the many UN resolutions. In his memoir Present at the Creation, Secretary of State Dean Acheson wrote that Nehru told him he would not accept a plebiscite because the Kashmiris would vote on the basis of religion, and India, as a secular state, could not permit that. After a while, the UN apparently stopped pushing in the face of consistent Indian defiance. This was so especially after India, in 1971, invaded East Pakistan to help the separatists there to break away from Pakistan and set up the country of Bangladesh. (One has to wonder why this was perfectly acceptable to the international community while Biafra’s separation from Nigeria was not.) India has never hesitated to use military action to secure its foreign policy aims.

Mujeeb said:


Here is an other tid bid about the Peace Loving Country India.

In spite of its agreement, India has always refused to allow the people of Jammu and Kashmir to express their will in accordance with the many UN resolutions. In his memoir Present at the Creation, Secretary of State Dean Acheson wrote that Nehru told him he would not accept a plebiscite because the Kashmiris would vote on the basis of religion, and India, as a secular state, could not permit that. After a while, the UN apparently stopped pushing in the face of consistent Indian defiance. This was so especially after India, in 1971, invaded East Pakistan to help the separatists there to break away from Pakistan and set up the country of Bangladesh. (One has to wonder why this was perfectly acceptable to the international community while Biafra’s separation from Nigeria was not.) India has never hesitated to use military action to secure its foreign policy aims.”

—–

Mujeeb, you Pakistani butchers genocided 2.5 million Hindus and 500,000 muslims, you forgot to mention that by the way. Or you didn’t know that at all, since you keep alternate set of history books in Pakistan. Somebody had to do the right thing and stop the Genocide, India was the only one capable of doing anything. No body else was willing to come there to stop it.

Pakistan systemically also murdered thousands of Engineers, Doctors, Poets, Journalists, Nurses and teachers. Again, look at the first link below.

Pakistan lost all moral credibility with the world, when it genocided all those poor people. The Pak Army systematically raped young girls to old women and even little boys. The history is well documented. I am shocked that no Pakistani’s acknowledge the butcher of so many Hindus and Muslims’s, how many millions more will you need to butcher, before you acknowledge the death of even one Hindu?

The well-documented genocide is available to see on the internet. I will post some links below to increase your intelligence on the matter, and so that you may share with your equally uninformed and unhuman breatheren in Pakistan. I have also included a picture of General Niazi surrendering to India.

Enjoy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1971_Bangla desh_atrocities

Gen. Niazi surrenders:

http://www.indianembassy.de/guestbook/pu blic/img-1115349356.jpg

My dear friend, Mujeeb, Pakistan is on the wrong side of history. Pakistan since its inception has had no human moral core on its side.

Take the shame of Pakistan to your grave, you will be ranting about the same things when you are 70, when Pakistan enters the history books and is no more.

BOTTOM LINE, Pakistan has no moral credibility in the eyes of the UN or the World. Afghanistan has more than Pakistan.

Long live Mukhtara Mai!

Posted by Global Watcher | Report as abusive

Mujeeb,
The bangladeshi’s are thankful that they are not part of the mess called Pakistan. That small poorer country, beset with flooding problems, has shown more commitment to democracy than you guys ever have. Don’t you find that shameful??

Posted by sear | Report as abusive

You are not understanding my point which is you ( India) has gotten away with a lot of Meddling in Pakistan’s affair (East Pakistan). The comment was how was it ok for India to help Destabilize East Pakistan and get away with it. It’s like Pakistan taking the side of the Sikh’s and to propose that Punjab needs to be a new country because we have the Military Power. We clearly don’t have the means and if we ever were on the same foot with you “forget about it”.

mujib

—Forget kashmir – first take care of Balochistan, the next Bangladesh…

Posted by anup | Report as abusive

Whenever we talk about coward muslim terrorists only one name flashes in everyones mind “Pakistan”.They are now threat to entire world becoz they have aquired some smuggled nukes few chineese missiles and donated american planes.
So really ,they are in central focus,and its matter of little comfort for us that Leaders have already started taking serious steps to protect the world from this muslim terrorists state.
Whatever solution we reach, just don’t forget to bury these muslim terrorists with their all smuggled arsenal.

Posted by Kumar | Report as abusive

Myra: I agree with Vivek’s view that “India has been crying out loud that pakistan is the heart of terror”.

Myra, I don’t attack media over trivial issues. But certain things are not trivial.
I am have following points to make and will appreciate your response. I am not asking you to give an opinion on a situation, which I already know is against your policy.
1. Who steers the media into putting up a story?-US and other influential nations in the West? Now you decide to ask: “Has Pakistan become the central front?”

2. Did India not say 2 decades ago that terror camps exist in Pakistan and that Pakistan is openly supporting them. Indian politicians have been shouting at each other to attack those camps since last 15yrs.

3. Terrorists are terrorists—selective labeling is hurting the world. What to expect from a common man when media is cherry picking. Is it because US is selective—the day US military strategy focuses on terrorists in Kashmir, suddenly those so-called “freedom fighters” will be called as terrorists and Reuter will call that another front. LeT, JeMs etc…… running on the other side of Pakistan border deserves as much intention as Al-Qaida and Taliban. There are such big names in these LeT type terrorists who are crying for as much attention as OBL/Jawahiri get. So the question becomes are these LeT/JeM type groups and groups with ever changing hyphenated names less harmful to the world than Al-Qaida or the wounds they inflict in India are not deep enough for Reuters attention or is it that they are freedom fighters in Kashmir and part time job as terrorist in rest of Kashmir. Are they really Kashmiri?–if not who they are and what is Pakistan’s role and is Pakistan then helping the war on terror. Would not the world want to know the stated agenda of these terrorists (providing web links). Their one agenda is to continue to spread Islam over India. If LeT types are labeled freedom fighters, why cannot Al-Qaida be put into that category? A-Q has its own reasons to fight.

4. Lastly, there is a real need to run a blog on the real intentions of US/UK/NATO in the region? There is strong belief that they do not want permanent or total peace in the region. This is important to all friends and foes in the subcontinent. US/UK/NATO are visitors and will leave with a mess to sort out by the concerned. Is this not a valid point to run a blog on? I think by all measures—YES.

5. “Has Pakistan become the central front?” Yes its has become and there is need to extend this fight to all terrorists in Pakistan from all four directions. Pakistan state is in unique position since it conducts tango between terrorists operating on East (in Kashmir in India) and West side of Pak border (Against US…)—by channeling the US/UK/worlds’s money to wrong people..

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive

Check this article:

Any pakistani’s still can say with a straight face that the lahore attack is an Indian conspiracy?

http://www.economist.com/world/asia/disp laystory.cfm?story_id=13240421

Posted by sear | Report as abusive

“One man’s terrorist is another man’s freedom fighter”.
-posted by Mujeeb

Mujeeb: This slogan is outdated and is meant for exploitation by Pakistan.

So you are saying Ajmal Kasab and company are “freedom fighters” when they killed ~200 inncents (30% are Muslims in that). Sick.

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive

Rajeev,

Thanks for your questions and I will try to answer them:

1) Who steers the media? I can probably answer this best by saying that when I refer to “the central front” I am talking mostly about U.S. policy. Maybe it would have been clearer to have put it in quote marks, although I thought it was well known as a phrase associated with Obama, who argued during his campaign that the central front was Afghanistan rather than Iraq. And (at least until recently) the United States had the power to define, rightly or wrongly, where it believed “the central front” should be, so the media, including me, will obviously pay a lot of attention to what the Americans say and do.

2)Hasn’t India been saying this for years? Yes. But see my point above – when the United States says it, then it is different whether we like it or not (Though I agree it would have been better to put “the central front” in quote marks.)

3) Are the people fighting in Kashmir Kashmiris? Some are, and some are not. I would recommend you read Basharat Peer’s Curfewed Night, which is a non-polemical personal account of the Kashmir insurgency as seen from the Kashmiri point of view.

4) What are the real intentions of US/UK/NATO in Afghanistan and is this not a valid point to run a blog on? Yes. I’ve been trying to look more at what is going on in Afghanistan, particularly from the perspective of Russia (and to a lesser extent China). See this post where I quote M.K. Bhadrakumar as saying that the west won’t get Russian support in Afghanistan unless it dispels suspicion that it is seeking a permanent presence there.
http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2009/0 2/03/afghan-supply-routes-face-setbacks- in-pakistan-kyrgystan/

I’ve written other posts on Afghanistan and Central Asia and am happy to have more ideas/links pointed out to me as agree this question needs to be explored further.

5) Shouldn’t Pakistan be attacked from all directions? I would say that you should never make assumptions based on history. History can be a guide but it is never 100 percent reliable. Have you considered that the situation within Pakistan may have changed?

Do read this piece by Steve Coll in the New Yorker (I’ve found a link to the article courtesy of Sepia Mutiny) about how India and Pakistan nearly made peace over Kashmir in 2007. There will be stuff in there that you don’t like, or disagree with, but it does give pause for thought.

http://www.newamerica.net/publications/a rticles/2009/back_channel_11191

More than happy to discuss all your points further.

Myra

Posted by Myra MacDonald | Report as abusive

@All, this translation, provided by Sear, of a poem by Rehman Baba, says better than I could have done where the comments on this blog need to be going. I’m not saying that everyone has to agree, but when the discussion descends into aggressive point-scoring, it becomes repetitive.

Many of you will know this better than me, but there is a lovely poem by Ghalib which begins “I shall write to you even without cause…”

Can we try to get into a discussion where people speak to each other rather than shout at each other?

And here is the translation of Rehman Baba:

“Sow flowers so your surroundings become a garden
Don’t sow thorns; for they will prick your feet

If you shoot arrows at others,
Know that the same arrow will come back to hit you.

Don’t dig a well in another’s path,
In case you come to the well’s edge

You look at everyone with hungry eyes
But you will be first to become mere dirt.

Humans are all one body,
Whoever tortures another, wounds himself.”

Myra

Posted by Myra MacDonald | Report as abusive

@Myra,

In responding to your comment below. I have worked with many Pakistani’s, Indians, Americans and Europeans. Of the three groups mentioned above, namely the Indians, Americans and Europeans, I noticed that those three always had a greater sense of a moral core seeded with neo-humanism. I never noticed a shred of it from Pakistani’s.

Should I just bury my head in the sand, when everytime an olive branch is extended, it is not reciprocated? Friendliness is seen as insincere, and perceived of as a weakness, when inside, they seek our destruction and scoff at friendly overtures?

Myra, you are a westerner, your moral make up is different that some of those from eastern cultures. Western societies are guilt-based and some eastern societies are shame-based.

It is important for you to understand those shame and guilt based concepts. Being nice is often interpreted as insincerety or hiding your true feelings. I say this, because reciting a poem to one of our friends from Shame based societies only emboldens them inside. What they respect more, but not necessarily like, is a forceful, up front style in your face rebuttal.

Please keep a mental note of this, as you will understand the range of response to your topics and the results you get are in part influenced by Shame and Guilt principles.

India is more guilt based like western countries, while Pakistan is more shame based, like most of Islamic countries.

Some of us in Guilt societies realize that and don’t care to recite or read poems, because it is ineffectual.

Posted by Global Watcher | Report as abusive

Mujeeb said:

“One man’s terrorist is another man’s freedom fighter”.
-posted by Mujeeb

Here is the Pakistani double standard, I keep shreiking about.

People in Pakistan need to travel the world and know what it is to be human. Travel to Italy, Europe, Greece and see with your own eyes, the humanism that gave rise to Engineering, Medicine, Art, Sciences, Democracy, Rights of the individual, the Renaissance and Reformation. You cannot help but be so emotionally moved when you see these beautiful things that gave rise to the many modern things we enjoy today and modern things that the Muslim world enjoys.

It is time for more Pakistani’s to learn the roots of their modern day world, much of it originated in Europe and India, not in Saudi Arabia.

I am still in awe of vast human potential that arose from christianity in Europe. It is humbling and to be preserved and remembered.

Posted by Global Watcher | Report as abusive

Myra,

I appreciate the link to the article by Steve Coll from NY Times. It’s an interesting read.

After reading it, I realized that how difficult it’s to deal and negotiate with Pakistan – a nation with devious leaders who speak in multiple voices; leaders who may sign peace deals while secretly planning more jihad and violence and leaders who will not hesitate to make sudden U-turns based on how the wind is flowing.

Posted by Nikhil | Report as abusive

Myra,

Thanks for detailed response and for the “The Back Channel” article by Steve Coll—very detailed information. You are right there is stuff that I disagree with. I am no expert here but in the article, Musharraf’s via his statements appears to take lot of credit for the back channel deals on Kashmir with India and labeling Indian less bold. Well, there is a reason to this lack of boldness. Kargill directed by Musharraf’is no small reason to tread with caution, their history is full of U-turns and inconsistencies-so who will trust them. It goes to India’s credit that India could sit with him.

@History can be a guide but it is never 100 percent reliable—Myra, nothing is 100% reliable. Ignoring history-one like India/Pak’s- everything becomes gamble then. Nation that has faced thousands of deaths and break of peace at the hand of a man (Musharraf) hasto give lot of weightage to the history. Musharraf can give all these empty statements to Steve Coll et al. and act as if he is deeply troubled by this, fact remains that he is a general by job—peace is not palatable to him, as he proved by unprovoked Kargil war. This is India’s boldness that they could even agree to sit with this man who’s misadventure led to thousands of deaths on both sides—and unnecessary. Chinese proverb says it very well “Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice shame on me”.

Since it is US-driven, -financed war and the so-called “war on terror” is their idea, I was trying to ask: “which terrorism?”. If Pakistan is the “the central front”, hypocritical attitude of Pakistan—their selective targeting of terrorists–will be waste of money and lives and destabilize the region. Agreed this is US’s war, but this is our subcontinent and their mishandling is trouble to the region, including India—hence my concern about US dealing with Pakistan. Frankly speaking, I do not trust US/allies for their service to the region. I believe they will make mess of the region and at end of it they will leave, rendering India a soft target. I hope I am wrong.

Shouldn’t Pakistan be attacked from all directions?—By this I meant attacking all kinds of terrorism in Pakistan without being selective. I will twist the fashionable statement and say this “one person’s freedom fighter is another’s terrorist.”.

Thank you

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive

Myra Thanks for posting the back channel link.

Rajeev
A truly priceless opportunity was missed in 2007. We dont need to show our bravado while Kashmiris suffer, Jihadi’s kill in Pakistan. When Pakistan Army high command wants peace with India, than ball is in India’s court. You loose this opportunity and rest assured Jihadis will incite an Indo-Pak war. In the elections when you vote, vote for some party that wants peace with Pakistan and resolution of Kashmir dispute.

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive

Since its(Paks) independence US always trusted and emboldened the Pak army than its civil administration, whenever the latter was dismissed by the former; and thus, convincingly earned wrath of most of Paks and rest of the world, for its (US) dubious commitment to democracy.

Now changing gears and shunning Afghan in favor of Pak, and its army in particular, alienates the Pak people who wanted democracy to succeed. The end result is that US will be left with no friends in the region and will be seen as a rogue by one and all. Iran, Afghan and India will try to reduce US influence as they encircle Pak and have become more motivated and conniving to question American influence in the region; its entirely a different matter that china, Russia and Saudi will participate in the global chess game with renewed enthusiasm, especially because African scenarios are not as sexy as Asian for crying out loud. This nation(Pak), which never convinced itself it ever was one, will be engulfed with unbelievable sectarian violence, notwithstanding the billions of dollars pumped into its coffers by US.

One should not underestimate the underlying objectives of US to consider such a risky and not so popular option. The compulsions are there for everyone to see: safeguarding the nukes at any cost. The think tanks here know well, should chaos prevail in Pak streets, it will be a question of a few hours before the nukes will fall into wrong hands.

If we look at the full history of Pakistan, we can blame the US for Pakistan’s current state in some ways. The US, while being a great democracy at home, prefers and nurtures dictatorships elsewhere. They have political and business interests where they want quick response. Democracies are a pain to deal with and dictators can be bought. It had excellent relations with Ferdinand Marcos in Philippines, Mobutu in Zaire, Pinoche in Chile, the military rulers of Pakistan and Communist China. Laws can be ignored and people’s will does not count.

Pakistan got very spoiled by its reliance on the US. The military generals loved the hitech hardware that the US gave them periodically and did not care if they were misused. They did not care when it hurt India every time. India wanted to stay a non aligned and self reliant nation. But the increased mutual dependency between US and Pak forced India to tilt towards the USSR. But India managed to remain a democracy, despite Indira Gandhi and has progressed by focussing on the foundations. Pakistani generals preferred to fly high on the US made war planes and never looked at the ground.

The Afghan war and the US-Pakistan involvement has left the whole region in rubbles. I heard on the radio where a writer said that the US resembles a drunken and spoiled man who drives his care through the traffic, hitting every car on the path, crosses over to the other side of the street, runs into a shop, and then gets up and tells everyone that they have to clean up before walking away.

It is the false hopes that the US gave the Pak generals, that has led their country to the current state. Pakistan could have become a successful country and a democracy at that, if it knew its limitations from the beginning, kept focussing on infrastructure development and built strong foundations, and by now they would have matured. In fact, Pakistan could have gone way ahead of India if their leaders put things in place. They spent all their time trying to out beat India and are still that psyche has not left them. India is huge and therefore has a big inertia and takes time to gain momentum. And it has begun to move and gain speed due to continued focus on development and growth.

One reaps what he sows. Pakistani leaders sowed myopia and hatred and what they are reaping after sixty years are terrorism and instability. The US, if it had wanted, could have helped Pakistan develop into a progressive nation. But it chose to treat the country as a war ally rather than as a nation that needed to grow. If one looks at the countries that the US has touched, most of them have progressed – Japan, Malaysia, Singapore, Chile, Western Europe, China and of late India. Pakistan failed to capitalize on this windfall. It could have turned into a Malaysia like nation long ago.

They are still blaming India for it unfortunately.

We need to bomb Pakistan in order to get rid of these pakistani muslim terrorists.US has started the job with drone attack in north-west pak but more tough steps are needed by world community.

Disintegration of pakistan is the only solution to eleminate pakistani muslim terrorists.Pakistan is full of terrorists and smuggled weapons and they are threat to world peace.We can’t risk to leave this region on their own.World has to decide Who would be the most appropriate to rule pakistan.certainly any international force led by india would be fine(as NATO failed in Afghan) to invade pak.

Posted by Kumar | Report as abusive

” the United States had the power to define, rightly or wrongly, where it believed “the central front” should be, so the media, including me, will obviously pay a lot of attention to what the Americans say and do.”

— Quite a honest admission, plainly speaking, what Myra is saying is that even if the US wrongs the world around, media has to toe it’s line or risk going into oblivion…

Posted by anup | Report as abusive

@Umair, Umair says:

“When Pakistan Army high command wants peace with India, than ball is in India’s court. You loose this opportunity and rest assured Jihadis will incite an Indo-Pak war.”

Umair, it is apparent from your language that you are related to the Pakistani Military, somehow, whether it is an uncle, father, brother or whatever. It is also a thinly veiled threat on your part that the military has the right to launch more terrorist proxy wars.

Let me be very clear, Pakistan has no right on Kashmir India, it is a part of India and will stay so. Any more Paki incursions on India, proxy wars, or non-state actors, or military supplied, moral support by the military type of groups trying to invade India will prompt a fierce response from India. Average India citizens want peace, but not at the expense of giving away property and conceding Indian land.

Pakistan should keep a vigilant eye on Sindudesh and Balochistan. Those two groups my friend are tired of punjabi military occupation. If the Pak. military keeps interfering in India’s internal affairs, the Military will repeat history, by this I mean 1971.

Your thinly veiled threats of Terrorism on India, if it does not give up Kashmir WILL bring another 1971 upon Pakistan, the question is the next mistep by the Pak Army, which area will it give up first? It is best, if you focus on more productive endeavors like getting rid of terrorism, hate, madrassas and the terrorist infrastructure made by your Faugi family relatives to keep trying to foment problems to destablize India.

When will you ever admit that your terrorist infrastructure is cancerously pervasive in Pak Society? You won’t, because you quietly condone it. You quiety condone and sympathize with terrorism, and will not condemn it, in any form. This is the problem with Pakistan.

@Myra, Pakistani’s like Umair are using the Kashmir issue to divert attention and politicizing it as an excuse to ascede more land from India. Giving away Kashmir will set a dangerous precedent to embolden the retrograde pro-Islamicist mindset in Pakistan. They will never quit wanting more land, their plan is to set up more terrorism against India, if they get India Kashmir and then set their sites for Gujarat. Kashmir is just an excuse. In the long run, there is an Islamic “DAWA” planned, there is a sick mental push to divide and re-Islamicize and occupy India. That is the bottom line. The line is drawn here.

If Kashmiri is given away, the proxy wars from Pakistan will not stop, they will just take a different form and become more emboldened. Umair’s military families will just embolden Pak Military Islamicist puppets like Hafiz Saeed, who want to conquer and flatten India, and openly say this, while the Pak Gov.t and Military are quietly complicit and sympathetic. This is the core reason, Pakistan is unwilling to fight or permanently dismantle and smash these terrorist groups like LeT or JuD.

Even Gen. Ashfaq Kayani was intercepted on a conversation, saying that did not want to arrest and stop the Taliban, who he viewed as a “strategic asset”.

ISLAMABAD : A new book by a New York Times journalist has levelled serious allegations against Pakistan and its Army claiming the telephones of all senior officers, including the COAS General Ashfaq Parvez Kayani were bugged by Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) and National Security Agency (NSA), the main eavesdropping US agencies around the world.

The book written by David E Sanger, which has hit the stands a few days back, claims that the American intelligence agencies were intercepting telephonic conversations of Army officers and the decision to attack Pakistan through drones was taken after one such high level conversation was intercepted claiming the Taliban as a “strategic asset” for Pakistan.

On a website: http://forum.atimes.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ ID=15085

“The book, titled “The Inheritance: The World Obama Confronts and the challenges to American power” claims the decision to invade Pakistani territories was taken after the CIA reached a conclusion that the ISI was absolutely in complete coordination with the Taliban.

The NSA intercepted messages indicating that ISI officers were helping the Taliban in planning a big bombing attack in Afghanistan although the target was unclear. After some days, the Kandahar Jail was attacked by the Taliban and hundreds of Taliban were freed, it says.

General Kayani would be the second army chief of Pakistan whose conversations have been bugged by the Americans, if the allegations in the book are true. Earlier the FBI had intercepted the telephone conversation between President Musharraf and Benazir Bhutto when Musharraf had threatened her that her safety within Pakistan depended upon her nature of relationship with him (Musharraf). The Indians had also recorded a telephone conversation between General Musharraf and General Aziz when Musharraf was in Beijing during the Kargil war days.”

Myra, this Pakistan’s grand plan, why the Pak. Military does not want to destroy the terrorist infrastructure. Its does not want to undo its years of work at behest of the Americans. It wants to use these Jihadi assets against India in the future, Kashmir, or not.

It is time to shut down the Pakistani’ Military”s business model. If the Americans do not listen, they will regret it, as they will be betrayed by Pakistan.

When will the world begin to listen?

Posted by Global Watcher | Report as abusive

@Myra,

Pakistan can only survive if it becomes a secular, non-religious democratic country like India, U.S., UK, having a European governance model, without a marriage to religion.

Pakistani’s often say that “we too are a victim of terrorism”…this is just a political style statement to garner sympathy and get money from the U.S. The fact of the matter is, pre-911, Pakistan was very ripe with the same Jihadi Extremists it is today. After 911, they have just become more bold in their attacks and at some level, some of them, namely the Afghanistan Taliban, which are fueled by Al-Qaeda are trying to topple Pak.

The Pak Military sees the “GOOD” Taliban as those who are willing to wage a bloody suicidal proxy war on India, with Kashmir being the excuse.

@Myra,

You need to start a more meaningful set of topics. The next one should be: “Pakistanis and complicity with Extremist Islam” or “Pakistan and the Politics of Extremist ISlam”, or “Pakistani’s Military proxy Armies, Good Taliban vs. Bad Taliban”. Please I urge you, let these topics surface.

Pak military guys like Umair are obsessed with the Indian boogey man, due to an indoctrinal brainwashing since childhood. One source quotes that since 911, terrorists have killed close to a total of 65,000 Pakistani’s. Who is the enemy here??? India??? No, I don’t think so. It is Pakistan itself upon itself as the greatest enemy.

Pakistan is Pakistan’s biggest enemy.

Posted by Global Watcher | Report as abusive

@Myra, Umair, all bloggers

http://www.rediff.com/news/2009/feb/24am azing-anti-india-syllabus-of-pak-madrass as.htm

Here is a link which documents the separate set of history books, used to brainwash young Pakistani minds into hating India. Rife with disinformation and lies, these are the books in Pakistan, which are viewed to be factual history. In the real world, outside of Pakistan, they are viewed as false, brainwashing material.

Posted by Global Watcher | Report as abusive

Umair:

“A truly priceless opportunity was missed in 2007.
–If it was lost, there must be a reason, right? You don’t know the details neither do I. From my POV, the history alone is a good reason if there was such a thing as “missed opportunity”. I discussed that in my message to Myra.

In the elections when you vote, vote for some party that wants peace with Pakistan and resolution of Kashmir dispute.

@We dont need to show our bravado while Kashmiris suffer, Jihadi’s kill in Pakistan.
–I would be happier if you would have stated “We dont need to show our bravado while Kashmiris suffer, Jihadi’s kill in Pakistan AND INDIA”
.
@When Pakistan Army high command wants peace with India, than ball is in India’s court. You loose this opportunity and rest assured Jihadis will incite an Indo-Pak war.
“Pakistan Army high command wants peace with India” is very naïve on your part. India also wants peace. If you are worried about RAW, India will be happy to make a Chinese-style peace deal “no intervention in each other’s affairs”. About war, India does not initiate war, Pak has done that. Let us not score point over denying the fact. If Jihadis will incite an Indo-Pak war, India will not be the culprit, it will be Pak. Makes perfect sense, right. And above all Jihadis are in your control. Pak army has very tight stop/release valve on them. So you can control them and kill this trigger. I know you won’t–makes sense to me since they are Pak’s tools against India.

@In the elections when you vote, vote for some party that wants peace with Pakistan and resolution of Kashmir dispute.”
–Umair, you tell me the party I should vote for—I will seriously consider. For the sake of argument, let us assume, India-Pak do something about Kashmir issue. You think resolution will bring peace with Pakistan. You claim to know the objectives of Jihadists who stick by what they say. Then have you heard this:

After the Kargil war of 1999, LET chieftain Hafiz Muhammad Saeed threatened, “The real war will be inside [India].” He swore his forces would “unfurl the Islamic flag on the Red Fort.”

Lashkar’s emir, Hafiz Saeed, announced his intention to destroy India: “We will not rest until the whole [of ] India is dissolved into Pakistan.” After the Mumbai attack, Saeed delivered a public sermon in Lahore in which he spoke approvingly of a new “awakening” among Indian Muslims, and described his coreligionists as “second to none in taking revenge.”

Umair, from India’s POV, K-issue solution will rather accelerate violence in India. It might bring peace inside Pakistan. Terrorists on their own or with your country’s help will start on other missions. What can India do. Hear the taunts like they hear now “what did India do after Mumbai, India is helpless….”. Start another cycle of allegations where India produces best of evidence only to be negated by Pakistan. If Pak, despite going through such a stage, still considers militants on east and west borders as assets, then there is serious problem. If outside world, including India, sees that Pak has really divorce these militants then that is a good starting point and the basis for solutions.

This recent Kasab fiasco has revealed the insincerity of Pakistan. If it wants peace and is guilt-free, why not just accept the hard facts as basic as Kasab is Pak’s citizen.
Coming back, can you convince Indian bloggers that K-issue will bring peace in whole of India, taking into account Hafiz Muhammad Saeed statement. Please do not provide solutions such as Pakistan will arrest Saeed and problem solved. He is just a symbolic of the idea. How can you kill this idea? This might be off the discussion, I will quickly add that Pakistan has just India as an enemy here, India has 2-Pakistan, China. India’s major military moves are targeted towards China, which is the stronger enemy—we can agree that China is stronger than Pak. I hope you appreciate that part. India has never been defeated by Pak—a fact, but 1962 debacle has kept India own its toes and that’s the context for us to say that we do not think about Pakistan.

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive

Hi Rajeev

Look as far as your choice of vote is concerned, you are an Indian citizen. You know your country better than me, you know which leaders are sincere and you can choose them to represent you.
Rajeev, Islam is a religion of peace. Hafiz Saaed or Mr. XYZ or ABC might have said a thousand times they want to conquer and destroy India. But Pakistanis like me and millions of others in Pakistan do not hold that view. India has a big muslim population, why would we want to destroy India. Islam never preaches killing, so be rest assured that is not our intention. 62 years of wars, mistrust cannot go away in a second, India and Pakistan will have to change. Why cant we live like US or Canada? or maybe Australia and New Zealand. We are really strange neighbours, we set fire to each other’s backyard knowing very well the fire could spread and burn our own house. Lets stop this.

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive

@Rajeev, Islam is a religion of peace. Hafiz Saaed or Mr. XYZ or ABC might have said a thousand times they want to conquer and destroy India.
—-Where does Pakistan fit in here. Pakistan decision makers do not practice peaceful Islam—for sure and they are the ones who control the likes of Hafiz Saaed or Mr. XYZ or ABC.
Pakistan either is distracting everyone or it has paranoia of RAW— that needs to go. Nothing parallels the sinister Pak ISI which has unleashed its fantasies in India. Indian RAW, counterinsurgency wing has been taken off ground from Pak long time ago on moral grounds by Inder K. Gujral in 199?s—sometime paralleling with the decline in Sikh movement-thanks to KPSGill and no thanks to Pak. But ISI blew up Kabul embassy and evidence from CIA of ISI involvement could not be anymore clear. Peaceful Islam has nothing to do with it.

Also you cannot suddenly disown Hafiz Saaed et al—someone who you have been using suddenly announce nobody. His peaceful Islam version is well known to all. Pak is culprit. Religion does not fit in here and you do not have to defend Islam here.

Umair,
@But Pakistanis like me and millions of others in Pakistan do not hold that (Hafiz Saaed’s) view.
—–You do not control Hafiz Saaed, but as I said your govt does which is really nonserious about terrorism. Sadly for you-even at this stage of Pak. All along, your govt has been helping many terrorist groups—they are kind of another wing of Pakistan army. So who can trust Pakistan? India does not care what you think or million other Pakistanis think—the decision makers are select few.

@ “India has a big muslim population, why would we want to destroy India.”
——Don’t keep this doubt in your mind that Indian Muslims are safe in India because of Pakistan. It is India’s constitutional and moral responsibility to take care of the minorities and it is doing the best it could be done in practical world. Unwittingly, you did destroy muslim population in Mumbai attack—by Pak-supported LeT whose stated claim is not to kill innocents and Muslims. Terrorism is very secular. In Mumbai attack, ~30% of the victims were Muslims.
REST ASSURED, WE DO NOT REDUCE MUSLIM POPULATION FROM 20% TO 2% LIKE PAKISTAN DID TO NON-MUSLIMS OF ALL KINDS INCLUDING HINDUS, REDUCING THEM FROM 15 TO <2%. Rather there is steady rise in the population—you personally who believe in # game should feel happy. This # game psyche is maintaining low level of oxygen for radicalism and will never let it die. Then, in that case you can truly justify rising Hindu radicalism in India. Who is reducing minorities like this in Pakistan? Obviously it is your Pak state, but then why are you so proud of—citizens like you constitute the state and cannot suddenly shrug away everything.
On top of that India is labeled for “economic and social disparity” against Muslims, which is ridiculous-some Muslims happen to be one among many categories who are not doing well.

@Islam never preaches killing, so be rest assured that is not our intention. 62 years of wars, mistrust cannot go away in a second, India and Pakistan will have to change.
—-I agree since it your faith but you have to agree that what we got in reality is totally different. Of all the people in this world, non-Muslims in India know the barbaric past suffered over 1000yrs by Mughal rule—not a small time. Holocaust, if you are one those who trust that, will be dwarfed in front of the death and destruction faced by the people and the religion here, but still trying to co-exist with others. In fact the ancestors of many Muslims bloggers have been converted into Islam (not to mention other methods you would not like to know) but live in dream of coming here on a horse with a bow and arrow.

@ Why cant we live like US or Canada? or maybe Australia and New Zealand. We are really strange neighbours, we set fire to each other’s backyard knowing very well the fire could spread and burn our own house. Lets stop this.
—– Bluntly speaking, QA Jinnah accepts that Muslims can live under British but not under Hindus—lack of co-existence is the trigger for partition. The genesis of Pakistan, overpowering religion and an Islamic—but unstable-political system are major reasons. Notice, all those countries you mentioned are democracies plus religion and ideology is not a big issue. Perhaps, if it is Turkey (secular Islamic democracy) next door to India, India will do just fine or if Pak is in the middle-east, Pak may do just fine (?). US & Australia have done their share of violence in their own country. For now, stable terrorism-free Pakistan with a stable political system will fix 90% of the problems. Stay out of each other’s way, if we cannot help each other, will do a lot good.

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive

@Umair, you should visit India sometime. It is the land of your ancestors. You will feel a deep connection to that place and will feel cheated and lied to your whole life, upon returning to Pak.

I would visit Lahore, the city where my mother is from, but I am afraid my hindu identity, I would get killed there on the open streets, no accountability, no investigation.

Posted by Global Watcher | Report as abusive

Global watcher
I am glad to learn your respected mother is from Lahore, I wish her a good health and long life. I have a Pakistani passport but never travelled to india. Although I am still young by my age, but had an opportunity to work and live abroad for 2 years right after college. Indians were among my best friends, most of them from Gujrat and Mumbai. Once I stayed overnight at a Hindu friend’s house, those guys cooked the roti which I ate.
Sikh yatris come over to Pakistan at shrines of Baba Guru Nanak at Hasan Abdal, they are not killed. You ever come to Pakistan, I can show you around Islamabad. You will like this beautiful city, I can assure no one would even slap you for being an Hindu, killing you is something….? what can I say?

I would agree muslims might have in general not stood up to project what Islam truly stands for. Similarly my fellow Pakistanis in some cases might not have projected what Pakistan truly presents. I leave it to you to do your search.

By the way I would call you half Pakistani, half Indian.

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive

Global Watcher,
I am in the same camp as you. I cannot travel to Pakistan without coming back alive. I have relatives in the Indian Armed Forces. I had an uncle (RIP) who was actually in combat in 1965 and 1971.

Posted by bulletfish | Report as abusive

Rajeev
I dont know where are you getting your numbers regarding hindu population in Pakistan. We had a chief justice Rana Bhagwan Das as hindu, cricketers as hindus. We have christians in Army and Air Force.
After all, Pakistan is an Islamic republic. But let me tell you, it doesnt mean, armed police or mobs go out on search mission, drag out hindus from their homes and ask them to recite the Kalima and become muslims.

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive

Bulletfish
My father, grandfather and uncles were active on duty in the Army and Air Force and are veterans of 1965 and 1971 wars. Three of them airmen, one soldier, one as special forces commando.
Our forefathers fought for their nation those were difficult years. Do you want us to fight also, then we will tell stories to our children and grand children, can we progress this way? No

Bulletfish and Global watcher you guys are more than welcome to visit the people of Pakistan. The Policemen laid down their lives while repulsing the attack on Sri Lankan team. If you are our guests in our home, you have our word we will protect you with our blood.

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive

@Rajeev I dont know where are you getting your numbers regarding hindu population in Pakistan.

I know the names you mentioned and those are mentioned in this ref too. There is lot more here.

Here it is:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hinduism_in _Pakistan#Hinduism_and_Partition

Demography
In August 1947, at the end of British Raj, the population percentage of Hindus in what is today in Pakistan was perhaps as high as 15-20%, but would drop to its current total of less than 2% in the years since independence. According to the 1998 Pakistan Census, caste Hindus constitute about 1.6 percent of the total population of Pakistan and about 6.6% in province of Sindh. The Pakistan Census separates Schedule Castes from the main body of Hindus who make up a further 0.25% of national population[1]

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive

@Umair, Umair says:

“Global watcher
I am glad to learn your respected mother is from Lahore, I wish her a good health and long life. I have a Pakistani passport but never travelled to india. Although I am still young by my age, but had an opportunity to work and live abroad for 2 years right after college. Indians were among my best friends, most of them from Gujrat and Mumbai. Once I stayed overnight at a Hindu friend’s house, those guys cooked the roti which I ate.
Sikh yatris come over to Pakistan at shrines of Baba Guru Nanak at Hasan Abdal, they are not killed. You ever come to Pakistan, I can show you around Islamabad. You will like this beautiful city, I can assure no one would even slap you for being an Hindu, killing you is something….? what can I say?

I would agree muslims might have in general not stood up to project what Islam truly stands for. Similarly my fellow Pakistanis in some cases might not have projected what Pakistan truly presents. I leave it to you to do your search.

By the way I would call you half Pakistani, half Indian.”

You are right Umair, I am.

Posted by Global Watcher | Report as abusive

I am not a frequent blogger but I regularly read Blogs under these sections. I am very surprised by the change in tone of Umair. Is this same Umair? I glad the ppl start getting some understanding of each other. May be we get some good thoughts n information in this section in future instead of funny Statements from both of sides.

Posted by Only Indian | Report as abusive

By the way I would call you half Pakistani, half Indian.”
-posted by Umair
You are right Umair, I am.
- Posted by Global Watcher

Umair and Global Watcher:
My father and grandparents moved from Narowal, now a district headquarter in Pakistan Punjab, to India. My mother is from this side of the border.

It is technically incorrect to call myself “half Pakistani, half Indian”. That is like my father claiming he is a Pakistani or from Pakistan. In fact he is from “the then India, now called Pakistan”. He was not born in Pakistan and never lived in Pakistan. Where he lived was called India. When Pakistan happened he moved.

So I am 100% Indian and by that definition so is “Global Watcher”.

Nothing against Pakistan in what I said, but we need to be careful with the facts. I have seen other misinformation also.

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive

Rajeev:
“So I am 100% Indian and by that definition so is “Global Watcher”

Count me in too, My grandparents came from Kasoor, now in Pakistan. I am 100% pure Indian too.

On the contrary, If Umair’s parents were born before 1947 in India, He is half pakistani and half Indian. ;-)

Posted by punjabiyaar | Report as abusive

You know guys, at the end of the day, it does not matter where you are from, each and every person is an equal human being FIRST, equal in the right to live, equal in the right to respect. You are a human being first before religion, country, culture, country. This is the root cause of many conflicts, people, especially very relgious ones, don’t understand or believe in this neo-humanistic concept.

It is my future hope that neo-humanism takes over Pakistan.

Posted by Global Watcher | Report as abusive

India and Pakistan have moved on in their own directions. There are too many factors dividing people than uniting them. See this link where Veer Sanghvi writes how the two nations have diverged away.

http://www.hindustantimes.com/StoryPage/ StoryPage.aspx?sectionName=HomePage&id=4 e661b6b-ca91-43f6-8153-e927ad151c76&Head line=The+same+people%3f+Surely+not

Musharraf is from India (Muhajir) and look at the venom he displayed against India when in power. LK Advani is from Karachi and see how ready he is to capitalize on any anti-Muslim slogan. There is only one thing common between these people – power craze.

Mauryan

moderation is the need of the hour
dont start again chief, watch what you write

I just saw the movie on Daniel Pearl’s Kidnapping in Pak, starring Anjelina Zolie

I would like to limit my comments around one specific area — United States policy of partnering with Pakistani miltary (when Pakistan is ruled by military rulers) has been a failure as well.

The non-fanatical (pragmatists) segment of the Pakistani society (or any society or any country & any religion anywhere in general) will be able to bring down extremism. Usually, they are in silent majority and need a strong leader to speak up.

Posted by Shekhar | Report as abusive

Who would be gaining out of this incident……. I think Pakistan should start complete wipe-out program for RA&W elements in Pakistan, Now after its failure to defame Pakistan, even after killing its own people in the name of 26/11 mumbai incident, india has started to show its crule intentions towards a peace-loving country, india is lossing against Pakistan in every aspect and God is helping Pakistan (see Wagha incidents, when indian soldier got terrified byu Pakistani soldier, Nature has beaten india against Pakistan) Now india is using cheap tricks like attacking the Cricket Players, ruining the paradise on earth by funding SWAT militants, and many more. india should not forget that the world is watching. india is famous for mass murders of muslims, who do not know the story of Babu Bajrangi, who himslef raped, killed, burnt alive, tear-apart more than 100 muslims with the support of Chief Minister Narendra Modi and indian govt. is doing nothing on this case (see india\’s owned website http://www.tehelka.com/story_main35.asp? filename=Ne031107NarodaPatyaMassacre.asp  )

Posted by Peace | Report as abusive

8 Mar 2009 Muslim people are very vengeful. I donot think
peace will ever return to the world after that World Trade Center bombing and subsequent rout of the Taliban
in Afghanistan. US is being paid back in kind after all it was US and its allies that armed trained sheltered etc
these very same militants both sikh and muslims to destablize india’s punjab and kashmir provinces respectively. Pakistan politicians lucky star seem to be
shining; all that US aid etc to negate the terrorists seem to be going into the pockets of the politicians
that are simply showing double face?? It serves no purpose of the politicians to rout the terrorists
becz then the US funds will dry up??
politicians pockets

Posted by jjmk4546 | Report as abusive

Genocide, murder, torture and rape are characteristic of the behavior of all the combatants in the wars of independence throughout the Indian subcontinent since the 1940s if journalism has been accurate. Perhaps such conduct goes back further in the region’s history. Non the less all wars have spawned horrific behavior. No nation is exempt from this judgment. This is not to say I condone such acts. Such behavior is repulsive but expected.

Thomas Jefferson stated “War is the greatest of follies. The injured parties losses are always multiplied and never indemnified”. So why do we continue to war? We even have a war crimes court. As if war in itself isn’t a crime.

I believe it is buried deep in our genetic past to engage in such violent behavior as tools to ensure our survival. While it may be in our nature to act this way when threatened, we are still thinking beings. We have been granted the most coveted of gifts. Reason. Certainly reason can lead us to resolve our disagreements far better than violence, if we all would use it.

In the end no law or other device of man can alter human conduct. We can only change ourselves. Before we can do that we must answer the question ” Shall I rule my nature, or be ruled by it?

Posted by Anubis | Report as abusive

I hope that President Obama and the U.S. realizes that Pakistani military will betray them again and again and have no intention of following through with promises. They are looking for the right opportunity to store weapons, free planes and such given by the U.S. to one day turn them against India.

In its naivity to extend a hand to Pakistan, the U.S. is helping unknowingly, at least, to start a future war with India.

The U.S. needs to make more blunt, pointed pressure, extreme pressure on Kayani et al to be honest. The CIA need to keep a better eye on the ISI and the Army Generals.

If Pakistan chooses not to deliver, the drone attacks should be stepped up against Pakistani cities, and suburban centres. The U.S. should send highly trained crack commando tactical units deep within to Pakistan urban centres in the middle of the night, if it has to, to decapitate and extract terrorist elements.

Posted by Global Watcher | Report as abusive

@You know guys, at the end of the day, it does not matter where you are from, each and every person is an equal human being FIRST, equal in the right to live, equal in the right to respect. You are a human being first before religion, country, culture, country. This is the root cause of many conflicts, people, especially very relgious ones, don’t understand or believe in this neo-humanistic concept.
- Posted by Global Watcher

Global Watcher,
Both Punjabiyaar and I would agree with you. By saying that I am 100% Indian is nothing out of hatred or dislike but trying to be technically correct. I also said “Nothing aganist Pakistan”. This is studid if what we said becomes the root cause of a problem.

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive

Azad DP writes: “Mauryan

moderation is the need of the hour
dont start again chief, watch what you write”

What did I write? I just referred to an article which says differently about how Indians and Pakistanis have moved in different directions over the past 60 years. Did you read that article? My reference was related to an exchange of brotherhood ties between Indians and Pakistanis here, when I saw this article by a renowned writer.

@Rajeev,

Rajeev, the point I was trying to make was that democratic societies like India’s constitutionally recognize the right of the person being a human being FIRST. In Pakistan you are more of a human being FIRST, if you are muslim, it is that against, which I am trying to bring light on.

Posted by Global Watcher | Report as abusive

Mauryan,

I was alluding to the comparisons between Advani and Musharraf.

A pak columnist questioned Mushy during one of his US trips, when he was president, about LeT activities (before they were banned), Mushy was angry and retorted back’they dont cause problems inside Pakistan, whats the problem?’ Also,he started kargill and dismissed shariffs administration and allowed terror to flourish as a threat to world and in his pretence to control the same he squeezed out billions from US, his strategy is very effective . Now, John Kerry, the influential US senator, was loud and clear in capitol hill demanding that immediate transferof billions will dramatically shrink terror in Pak.

Money is the objective to encourage terrorin Pak, its going to befollowed to l astdetail by Afghan aswell.Paks success is contagious for all poor countris.

Unlike in Afganisthan, China factor makes Pakistan more complicated.Secondly, we do not know who controls Pakistan is a mystery even to Pakistan.Thirdly the stake of Russia is not yet known;one thing is sure, Russia will not exactly be hopping merrily if US takes a foothold in Pakistan.If Pakistan implodes on its own it is a problem to China,Russia,India and the whole South Asia,what with LTTE in SriLanka,Maoists in Nepal,BanglaDesh facing Army mutiny,Maldives a powderkeg,Indonesia restless and Northeast and being the foot hold of insurgents in India.Terroists shall have a field day.
If US and western powers intervene,China and Russia will not like it.Daunting problem indeed.
But entering into a deal with Good Taliban(?) is dangerous, as witnessed in Osama promotion and also in Vietnam.
The clear option is to have an international force to strike terrorists’ hideout wherever they are.Other ptions shall fail.

Posted by S.V.Ramanan | Report as abusive

@But entering into a deal with Good Taliban(?) is dangerous, as witnessed in Osama promotion and also in Vietnam.
The clear option is to have an international force to strike terrorists’ hideout wherever they are.Other ptions shall fail.

- Posted by S.V.Ramanan
–This brings us back full cirle. international force-strike terrorists’–that;s the toughest part. Or the lack of sincerity?

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive

There is no such thing as the ‘good Taliban’.This is a state which bred,nutured,armed these thugs.A close reading of the book,’three cups of tea’will give an insight into the saudi-wahabi plan for Pakistan.They have spawned a generation of children who are uneducated,jobless as they have no work skills,brainwashed in the madrassas,with a will to become suicide bombers for their controllers.They are bought over for a paltry sum of$2000/-to be given to their mothers.This is a gist of the inputs received from the thugs captured in Mumbai.If not checked this monster will devour the Saudi state as well in the near future too.The fat will really be in the fire then!Democracies are now faced with a situation as posed by the Nazis in 1933/34.The economic downturn has one benficial fact.The source of funding through oil sales is falling sharply.More needs to be done in that field by all of us.Pakistan is a basket case&the US must not fund this nation. Better to spend the money on US army.

Posted by devindra sethi | Report as abusive

devindra sethi,

A Good Taliban is a DEAD Taliban…

…No more and no less. I do not see the point in splitting hairs to decide who is a good Taliban or a Bad Taliban…

…end of story.

Posted by bulletfish | Report as abusive

@ S V Ramanan
International force against terrorism will be easy to make. However sho to strike will be much more difficult to fix.
For India and Afghanistan Pakistan is the center of Terrorism (with proofs) but for US its an ally in war against terror.
For US Iran is an axis of evil but for India its an old ally.

Each country has to look after herself. If India looks to US to sort out Paki terrorism we are kidding ourselves.

Posted by chirkut | Report as abusive

Yes Pakistan is the central front. Please send money and latest weapons to help us.

Thank you.

@Yes Pakistan is the central front. Please send money and latest weapons to help us.
Thank you.
- Posted by Aamir Ali

–Beggers will remain beggers

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive