Pakistan’s chief justice reinstated

March 16, 2009

Two years after Iftikhar Chaudhry was first sacked by then President Pervez Musharraf, Pakistan government officials said he would be reinstated as Chief Justice after a nationwide protest led by Pakistan’s lawyers.

It’s been a rollercoaster ride. After he was removed by Musharraf, Chaudhry was reinstated only to be sacked again and placed under house arrest along with many other lawyers when the former general declared emergency rule in November 2007. At the time, Pakistani lawyer/politician Aitzaz Ahsan wrote in an editorial in the New York Times that the leaders of the lawyers movement ”will neither be silent nor still”. But he also fretted that the lawyers’ movement would be ignored by the United States and overlooked by the forthcoming election.

Then after an election which brought President Asif Ali Zardari to power, the lawyers protested again in June last year in what they called a “Long March” - named somewhat perversely after the military retreat led by Mao Zedung in the 1930s.  Their protest fizzled after failing to achieve its objective.  This time around, a “Long March” to Islamabad seems to have succeeded. 

“The quiet, patient man is on his third life, having been deposed twice previously by former President Pervez Musharraf.  Let’s hope he serves his term completely, without obstruction, and for the public good,” wrote Arif Rafiq on the Pakistan Policy Blog. “Kudos to the lawyers movement — one of Pakistan’s most organized, disciplined, and strategically-keen social movements.  Kudos to the political parties, third party groups, and street and Internet activists who stuck by their side.”

The lawyers’ movement was in some ways a triumph for civil society.  It sought to find its ideological roots in the founder of Pakistan, Mohammed Ali Jinnah, himself a lawyer. And given that hardline Islamism tends to flourish in places where the rule of law has broken down, it can also say it has played its part in undercutting a growing Taliban insurgency.

But after teetering on the edge of a precipice over the lawyers protest, has Pakistan really reached a turning point, or simply righted itself temporarily?

Chaudhry himself was first appointed by Musharraf after the then-general launched a military coup in 1999, so he cannot say he has always been a loyal servant of civilian democracy. And as discussed in an earlier post, the deal to reinstate Chaudhry may have been achieved as a result of prodding from the Pakistan Army, which begs the question of how well civilian democracy can flourish in Pakistan if it has to be underwritten by the country’s powerful military.  His promised reinstatement — announced after days of negotiations — may also carry with it a political deal whose outcome and required allegiances we are yet to discover.

So is the government’s promise to reinstate Chaudhry a triumph for civil society? Or a false dawn, masking further problems ahead?

(Reuters photo: a lawyer tries to escape tear gas in Lahore)

Comments

great news! some cause for celebrations for pakistanis suffering crises after crises. now iftikhar chaudry is back it is a new dawn for pakistan. it is a move in the direction of a stronger democracy, making zardari weaker. the people on the streets managed to bring the government to its knees which can only be a good thing.

of course things are not going to become rosy all of sudden, but it is a crucial step in the right direction which holds the possiblity of more change. i disagree the army’s role in this, even if they did prod it was because they are scared. the military establishment was not keen to have chaudhry back, he could create problems for them(and the US.)

Posted by Mr. Ketchup | Report as abusive
 

This Judge spent 7 years with Musharraf. He is coming back to power with support of Sharif. We don’t know details of the deal between USA-Zardari-Sharif-Gilani-Musharraf-Army . The integrity, effectiveness and decisions of this judge are questionable.

Can he bring back the 1971 constitution?

Can he cancel the NRO and prosecute Zardari, Sharif, Musharraf?

Can he prosecute ISI for missing Pakistanis, deporting Sharif and other crimes?

Can he claim his Judicial system over SWAT, FATA?

Will he allow CIA to operate in Pakistan like it operated during Musharraf and Zardari?

Will he deliver justice to the criminals hidden by ISI?

Posted by Global Citizen | Report as abusive
 

Justice Choudhry’s reinstatement means Pakistani people have acquired a voice and the civil society, media, lawyers and some politicians have given hope that this country can now proceed on the path of a civilized country where the voice of the dissidents carries some weight.

I would give full credit to the Pakistan Army because it is their decision to let the voice of the people be heard. They could have staged a coup because the people were demonstrating against the politicians. That did not happen. So let us all celebrate.

Posted by Shaheen Sehbai | Report as abusive
 

Unfortunately, this is a mere hiatus on a road paved with mines that will eventually destroy the Pakistani state. Chowdhury is no beacon for the rule of law any more than Sharif is one for democratic principles. The raison d’etre for the Pakistani state is what needs to be discussed with the right intellectual rigor and probity at which point it will become apparent that the state as it was cobbled together never was and never will be viable. It means redrawing the map to exclude the NWFP and Balochistan – however painful that is for most nationalists – and focus on the parts that are capable of being viable – Sindh and Punjab

Posted by Lionel | Report as abusive
 

I have not seen the full details of the compromise.
My initial reading is that nothing has been done to restore neutrality of the Judiciary.Re installation of Iftikar Chaudhari and Sharifs is just a hog wash.
Unless the judiciary is made independent i would consider Long March a failure and a false dawn.

Posted by chirkut | Report as abusive
 

This might be an encouraging first step. But Pakistan has a long way to go. All Pakistanis need be involved, not just lawyers.

Bring a new cadre of civilian leadership, not the Sharifs, Bhuttos or Zardaris. Send Army, ISI under civilian control. Bring fiscal discipline. Beat the Talibans back to caves.

Unless Pakistanis quickly build upon the current gains, this will be short lived memory in the annals of history.

Posted by Global Citizen | Report as abusive
 

Shaheen Sehbai,
If you want to thank somebody, thank Adm Mullen, who called Kiyani 10-15 time in last 72 hours to remind him his limits and US aid. US desperately needs a democratic face to continue aid process. Kiyani desperately needs US aid to feed and dress his army.

Posted by David | Report as abusive
 

Lionel,
Creating baby Pakistans is not a good idea. One is enough for the world.

Posted by Global Citizen | Report as abusive
 

This the weakest Pakistani Government in History of Pakistan. Just surrenders to anyone who stands in front of it or nearby.

Surrender to China .. surrender to USA .. Surrender to Taliban .. Surrender to Lawyers ..

When surrender to India??

Posted by Another VIew | Report as abusive
 

Many congratulations to Pakistani nation, indeed it’s a great moment, came after two years of efforts and struggle of pride of Pakistani nation, the lawyers of Pakistan. It’s a great blessing of Almighty Allah.
We should not forget the role of civil society, political workers and on the last day by the residents of Lahore.
The way Lahoris broke all barriers to make this movement successful, and bring momentum to this, is incredible in the end.
May Allah forgive our sins and bring us to right track.

The role of PM Gilani is also appreciable in the end.
We should not criticize the PM now, we have to go ahead and roll-back all the wrong/dirty decisions of Musharaaf.
Now we have to move forward………………..

Congratulations to Aitezaz Ahsan, Ali Ahmad Kurd, Muneer Mailk, Rasheed A Rizvi and other lawyers. In the end we have to say thanks to Mian Nawaz Sharif and his party, Imran Khan and his party, Qazi Hussain Ahmad and his party. Here we have to acknowledge the role of media, and Pak. Army too.
We have to strengthen the constitution, parliament and Judiciary and political system now.
Only people of Pakistan can change this country.
My dear CJP! Do every effort to bring justice in the country.

Long live Pakistan.

Paksitan tu Azeem hei.

to Global citizen, there was no 1971 constitution. it was 1973 constitution

Posted by Yasar Saleem | Report as abusive
 

Well well well , i think that is possibly a result
of a deal.. Cj will not hear petitions on NRO because Supreme court has already gave its decision about NRO..last year .. only it can be that the “review” as that of Sharif Bro ‘s case…
well “MEN IN BLACK ” always succeed …so good luck CJ
good LUCK “MUSHARAF” and good LUCK “Mr President”

Musharaf will be very dissapionted about it..

Posted by Frankestian | Report as abusive
 

The reinstatement is not going to change anything at all. Every news story out of Pakistan has been a distraction from the previous news story. One event startes before the previous one has faded away.

(1) Sri Lankan cricketers attacked.
(2) Mr. 10%’s states attackers will be caught with “iron hands”.
(3) Protests in Lahore over the Sharif brothers.
(4) N. Sharif’s Long March.
(5) Police arrest opposition party members at govt orders.
(6) Imran Khan in hiding.
(7) Police crackdown on protesters and marchers.
(8) Entry points into cities blocked to stem march.
(9) Sharif under house arrest.
(10)GeoTV taken off the air.
(11)Pakistan Information Minister, Sherry Rehman resigns.
(12)Chief Justice Chaudhry reinstated.

The date today is 16th March. Sri Lankan cricketers were attacked on 3rd March. So, in a space of less that 2 weeks Zardari has created another fine mess.

Posted by bulletfish | Report as abusive
 

Myra
The success of lawyers/civil society movement is surely a turning point in Pakistan’s history. Pakistan today has a vibrant and independen media, a civil society that made its presence felt. The Army has realized how important it is to have national, political and public backing to do its job and the Army this time not only kept out of the matter but also played its role. The fact that the democratic system prevailed, a compromise reached tells that democratic system can prevail in Pakistan.
The lawyers get full credit for conducting a sustained campaign, the politicians get credit for keep negoitiating their way out of a potential deadlock.

Posted by Umair Malik | Report as abusive
 

Umair,

If the media is independent then why was GeoTV taken off the air with the consequence of Sherry Rehman’s resignation?

I have found another reason for a compromise. This would not have looked good at te next Friends of Democratic Pakistan meeting if Pakistan lost more revenues due to the march.

from Gulf Times, 14/03/2009.
Govt Losing Billions Daily.
The government and the national economy are suffering billions of rupees worth of losses every day due to long march and political bedlam that have paralysed routine business and foreign trade in most of the parts of the country except in the southern Sindh province. Official sources conceded the Federal Board of Revenue is losing more or less Rs3bn worth daily tax revenue because of political chaos that has caused a big blow to businesses. If the long march and ongoing political mess linger on well ahead of March 16, it is being anticipated that the Federal Board of Revenue would lose more than 25 billion rupees worth tax revenue in the month of March and the average target of raising Rs148bn revenue in this month would become impossible. If the long march and ongoing political mess linger on well ahead of March 16, it is being anticipated that the Federal Board of Revenue would lose more than RS25bn worth tax revenue in the month of March and the average target of raising Rs148bn revenue in this month would become impossible.

Posted by bulletfish | Report as abusive
 

I’d give credit where it is due. Congratulations to Pakistanis for exercising people’s will. Whether this has any long lasting effect or not, such exercises restore faith in democratic means. However small the step is, it is worth taking. Do not let your rights be taken away. We will always support public will. There are a lot things to be worked out. But this is a step in the right direction.

 

Every 5-10 years, Pakistanis re-spin the wheel, reinvent themselves. Everybody celebrates, feed sweets to each other and dance in the streets.

Then wait till someone re-spins the wheel again.

Posted by Outsider | Report as abusive
 

Congrats to you Umair and Pakistani’s,

Let’s wait and see now. What will the lawmakers do to stabilize Pakistan and make it an honest neighbour, will it make and pass laws to advocate a stronger democracy, or embolden an already stronger ingressing, radical Islamist Taliban ideology?

It is yet to be seen, if Chaudry and his merry band of black suits and ties have the courage and inner spirit to bring a sledgehammer down on social injustice (Mukhtar Mai case), and Extremist Islam. Will Chaudry fight Extremist Islam? Will any of these lawyers fight to keep Sharia out and rule of law and democracy in?

I don’t think so. While this is merely another cricket match win for Pakistani’s, I think this will do little way to make for a more responsible, tolerant and safer society in Pakistan.

Let’s see if Chaudry has the bXlls to shut down madrasas and convict terrorism groups to jail.

In the mean time, I think Zardari better start looking for a new country to live in, I think he probably has his UK home still there. If he does not, he will end up back in jail again.

Posted by Global Watcher | Report as abusive
 

Bulletfish & Global Watcher

Nawaz Sharif defied a ban and house arrest order, he took termendous risk to his life by taking to the road, his supporters fought their way out of the siege laid be security personnel in Lahore and made it out of Lahore on their way to islamabad. The opposition pressure forced the government to accept the popular public demand.

While in the US, war criminals like Bush are walking free, no one marches towards Washington. Peaceful march towards Islamabad and restoration of independent judges, Pakistan has got back the independent judiciary which is a pillar of any free and democratic nation. This is a defining moment for Pakistan. There is no need to find faults, whatever decision took place it has benefits for Pakistan.

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive
 

Justice Still Awaits Justice in Pakistan
Ishtiaq Ali Mehkri

16 March 2009 Khaleej Times
Pakistan’s deposed Chief Justice Iftikhar Muhammad Chaudhry may not be infallible. But he has now attained the status of a messiah – in whose reinstatement an overwhelming number of Pakistanis see their hopes in the rule of law, justice and democracy!

What makes them believe so is the word ‘No’ that Justice Chaudhry uttered before a dictator, General Pervez Musharraf, on the fateful day of March 9 two years ago. That unprecedented moment as well as the action, to sack the chief justice, in Pakistan’s history has drawn the line between those who stand for the supremacy of the constitution and those who don’t mind a tailor-made democracy propped up by the civil-military establishment.

March 9, 2007, for many was a revolutionary day in Pakistan when somebody – who was himself a part of the establishment, stood tall to make the difference felt. The day when a dictator at the zenith of his power was made to bite the dust, and was told ‘enough is enough’. For many others, it was a day when the process for a sustained evolution, leading to democratic reawakening, had begun in a country, which has seen chequered eras of military rule and quasi-democracy.

The courage, however, exhibited by the deposed chief justice was the beginning of a long drawn struggle which would make his countrymen realise the dream of a Pakistan where the rule of law shall be supreme. Nonetheless, there is no dearth of critics who are against the restoration of judiciary. And, primarily, they are the people who seek solace and refuge in the condemned doctrine of necessity – which validates every unconstitutional measure of military dictators – enshrined by the judiciary itself way back in the 1950’s.

Similarly, it is argued that why take a stand and struggle for the sacked chief justice when he himself had taken oath under a military dictator after the coup in 1999, which overthrew the democratically elected government of Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif.

Such arguments are not devoid of substance. But what makes Justice Iftikhar a source of enduring hope for the people is the manner in which he dispensed justice as the lord of the apex court. Thousands of suo moto notices were issued in public interest and hundreds of habeas corpus petitions were heard by the chief justice. He repeatedly summoned the high and mighty to question about the whereabouts of hundreds of missing persons-who apparently became a fodder of the war on terror. Apart from the row that ensued following the chief judge’s sacking and subsequent dismissal of the entire judiciary in November 2007, along with the promulgation of Emergency, a blessing in disguise for the country has ?been the birth of a vibrant civil society movement in Pakistan.

At the same time, the lawyers’ movement also called the bluff of the so-called democrats of our times.

The lawyers have created history by persisting on this agitation path for almost two years now – campaigning for the restoration of the judiciary and supremacy of the constitution.

And joining them are civil society groups and political forces considered as of peripheral importance. The only major political force to support the cause of sacked judiciary is Muslim League (Nawaz), which perhaps saw an opportunity to axe the grind against General Musharraf by throwing its weight behind the lawyers’ movement.

Similarly, the Peoples’ Party, the largest political party, too found in the lawyers’ movement a convenient platform to subdue the reigning dictator. Yet it was non-committal on the restoration of the judiciary and has exercised dual standards. The only exception has been the remarks of late chairperson and former prime minister Benazir Bhutto, who vowed to reinstate the chief justice, and see to it that the national flag is hoisted atop his residence once again.

Today, as the lawyers fight for justice on the streets, one thing is crystal clear: they will not rest without reaching their goal: the restoration of judges and rule of law. They braved the heat for two full years. One year under the despotic government of General Musharraf and, one more year under the umbrella of a democracy – which has more than two-third majority in parliament. The lawyers’ movement, and the courageous stance of brother judges along with their chief Iftikhar Chaudhry, cannot be shrugged off as merely a power struggle. It has cast Pakistan’s civil society and democratic forces against the forces of status quo.

The government’s going back on its commitment to restore the judiciary has landed itself in a predicament of sorts. President Asif Ali Zardari, a democrat by all means, and one who has gone through trials and tribulations of dictatorship and languished in prison for 11 long years, cannot brush the issue under the carpet. It will come to haunt him as a credibility crisis – and might register him in history as one who ?preferred political expediency to ?democratic norms.

Deposed chief justice Iftikhar Chaudhry and his brother judges, who have refused to take oath under Emergency Promulgation, are today the heartbeat of an evolving society in Pakistan that foresees its ideals in rule of law and democracy. Restoring them would never be an anti-thesis of political supremacy. Rather it will be in conformity with the mandate the people of Pakistan delivered in the general election on February 18 last year.

On the other hand, failing to restore them will inevitably reflect contempt for public verdict on part of all those at the helm of affairs. There can’t be a sovereign country without a vibrant and assertive judiciary. A free judiciary is the essence of democracy. The government of Pakistan doesn’t have a choice. It has to take this route…and restore judiciary will full honours.

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive
 

March 16 was a great day for the people of Pakistan. It took Pakistanis two years to realize their own moral values but the good point is that they finally achieved it. Western countries along with their support for corrupt politicans and rebel army generals should be ashamed for their selfish policies on Pakistan. West never gave lawyers movement that support it deserved, even tough the success of this movement would have paved way for peace, justice and equal opportunity for everyone in this country and in world. Most of the Western world leaders pay attention to results they want to see out of Pakistan, but they fail to pay attention to fix the process which would eventually pave way for more support for West. Lawyers movement was the one of the fundamental movement which would improve the process rather than producing more dogs like Mushraf and Zardari.

Posted by Ronin533 | Report as abusive
 

Justice Prevails! Well done Pakistan by rising to the occasion.

Posted by anup | Report as abusive
 

Bulletfish
You ask me if meida in Pakistan is independent, as I have stated, why was Geo TV taken off air?
In you r question lies the answer, infact you just missed the point altogether.
The fact that Geo TV was taken off the air was due to Geo TV being independent. Geo TV is back on air now, Chief Justice Iftikhar was illegally fired because he was independent minded and even questioned the Government on a number of issues. He is re-instated and back now.
This shows Pakistan is a free and independent democratic society.

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive
 

@Umair,

While its great that the march worked, the U.S., Canada, UK and these western countries are not so wracked in political turmoil that such a massive turnout is required by the public. Western societies have much more inertia and would not require what has happened in Pakistan to reinstate Chaudry. The institutions are too weak in Pakistan and require this sort of action to get any justice.

The question is now, internally Pak may have its house somewhat more in order. The problem still lies with Radical Islam. I will not stop ranting about madrasas and radical Islam until it is buried and crushed 6 feet deep. My question is what is Sharif going to do to stop the Wahhabi’s and Jihadis from re-infirming 8th century Islam?

Quite honestly, the world does give a rat’s axx if Mickey Mouse were running Pakistan, we want to see bone-crushing and pro-active resolve seen at the end of the day to fight terrorism, smash the terrorism infrastructure, all the Jihadi proxy armies and the Madrasas brought to an end. All of this done in a forefront and transparent way for the world to see, so Pakistan can earn its reputation.

This is where the line is drawn for most of the world, we could really care less about marches, chaudry, zardari or whatever.

Posted by Global Watcher | Report as abusive
 

Umair,

By the way, I think you Pakistani’s can expect the same level of corruption, regardless of the leaders you guys choose. True, every country has corruption, but it is so runaway and rampant in Pakistan that regardless of the leader, Pakistan will continue to be ravaged by corrupt leaders.

Mark my word, Sharif will continue his stealing, theft and corruption for the benefit of his family, friends, colleagues and those who politically support him.

If Sharif does come to power, he will have to deal with the drones and the U.S. The world is sick and tired of a half-hearted and dishonest at best effort on the war on terrorism, put forth by Pakistan.

Posted by Global Watcher | Report as abusive
 

Global watcher:
You have raised two issues:
1. Rdical Islam and Madrassas.
2. Sharif and his corruption.

1. Islam is a religion of peace, my father sent me to Madrasa when I was in school. I used to come back from school, rest and have lunch at home. Go to Madrasa and learn Quran and then come back do my home work. Afternoons were free for TV or playing. Today I have an undergraduate degree in Business and I work in IT sector. So , Madrasas in Pakistan do not prech hatred, radicalism and violence.

2. Nawaz Sharif and his younger brother chief minister Punjab Shahbaz Sharif are very popular in Punjab province, Pakistan largest and wealthiest province. The Sharif’s power base is Lahore, it is said in Pakistan that who ever rules Punjab rules Pakistan. His party has 170 seats in provincial assemblyof Punjab, the largest mandate. Shahbaz Sharif is a very popular chief minster and poor people are happ with his welfare work.

Lastly the world must be thankful for Pakistan’s effort to tackle terrorism. Pakistan is not responsible to safeguard every country from terrorism. Pakistan is not responsible for terrorism in the world. The IRA is Ireland, the LTTE in Sri Lanka, Basque sepratist in Spain, the Columbians, the African war Lords are all terrorists. Now why should Pakistan care? we have got nothing to do with them. We are only acting against some bad guys holed up in our border with Afghanistan.

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive
 

Madrasas in general are similar to Christian missionary schools. In the past they were centers of excellence for studies in music, arts, language and astronomy. India’s famous reformer Raja Ram Mohan Roy is a product of a madrasa. In those days, they admitted people from all communities. It was during Zia-Ul-Haq’s time that many Madrasas were focussed on generating Jihadi clones to fight the Soviets in Afghanistan. What Pakistan is suffering from today is due to Zia’s legacy. The Deobandi school is more orthodox and interestingly it originated in India. Go for good civilian governments man. Everything will reset back to normalcy and we could be discussing music, sports and movies here.

 

“Islam is a religion of peace”,

You forgot that Islam is also a religion of turbulent politics, while peaceful at its core, its true message has evaded many muslims, many followers of the Qu’ran are not peaceful, as is the testament to the terrorism. May peace be upon the prophet. Sufi’s are peaceful people and Ahmadi’s are also very peaceful people, Ismaili’s are peaceful, that is not necessarily the case with all other groups of muslims, as you see on T.V. everyday.

“Lastly the world must be thankful for Pakistan’s effort to tackle terrorism.”

Thankful, Umair? the ISI, Hamid Gul, Zia Al Haq, Musharaff, these insidious and notorious people, with the help of Wahabi backed Saudi monies and foreign fighters built proxy armies to destabilize India and create trouble in Kashmir. While it is true the U.S. and Soviets also created this Jihadi mess, they are doing their darnest to get rid of the germ they created. This germ called extremist islam is responsible for 911 and Khalid Sheikh Mohammed and Osama.

Bin Laden both were nurtured at many levels by Pakistani State agencies officially or unofficially. Even Hamid Gul was friends with OSB. Pakistan has for years, terrorist training camps, it used be chronicaled in the India Times, in North America as far back as 1988. Pakistan has created, nurtured terrorists for almost 20 years as it also fomented and supported the Sikh Khalistan liberation movement, now deemed a terrorist organization. Since you went to a Madrasa, I understand now, why you don’t renounce and denounce terrorist the same way that we in the west do. It is quite clear that on some levels you morally and quietly sympathize with them.

My mother, originally from Lahore, would say, “If the Americans ignore those Pak terrorism camps, the Americans will pay a big price one day….she was right…”

As long as Pakistan harbours this sort of thing, like Daewood, Lakvi, the JuD LeT, …etc….the world will continue Droning Pakistan.

“So , Madrasas in Pakistan do not preach hatred, radicalism and violence. ”

I also worked with many Pakistani’s abroad here and they speak frankly, because they feel safe to do so. They candidly told me that hate against Hindus and non-muslims and India is taught in the Madrasas and the Madrasas are funded by the Wahabi Saudi’s. These guys were from Peshawar and Lahore and Engineers, educated in Pakistan, they all had masters degrees. They also told me that it is the Pak Military’s business model to fuel separatism in India, as it unify’s Pak’s people, creating an enemy, common hatreds are used to divert attention and generate revenue for the Pak. Military.

I will be very clear. The U.S. is not going to stand for anymore double talk.

OBAMA has something to prove to the votership in the U.S. and so does Clinton. If you guys don’t turf the Madrassa system and smash the terrorist training camps, non-state actor frequented or not…..You can expect the Drone attacks to come to your cities, you can even expect cruise missiles to eventually replace the Drones, if enough is not being done.

Just remember, you are “friends” with the U.S. now, Nawaz Sharif or Zardari, I don’t care who it is.

Pakistan will be made to comply on the war on terrorism, wholeheartedly, or it will find itself on the wrong side of history.

Posted by Global Watcher | Report as abusive
 

On my last comment, please let me be clear, I also condemn any radicalized or terrorist Hindu groups equally, if not moreso. I wholeheartedly reject any hate they preach against any group.

All religions are peaceful at their core, but it is sad that politics that people play with the religion, that is bad is horrible.

I hope that clarifies things.

Posted by Global Watcher | Report as abusive
 

user ‘Global Watcher’ is trying too hard to be politically correct. Yesterday’s ‘mujahideen’ are today’s terrorists just because they do not fall in line with U.S interests in the Middle East region – just like the Communists of El Salvador whom the U.S loathed & decried as ‘threat to our way of life’, were welcomed by U.S today as they won the elections there..

Pakistan has only been looking after its own interests. Pakistan picked up the disorganized, warring and troublesome mujahideen groups after U.S’ abrupt departure from the Afghan scene to hammer out whom we today call, the ‘Taliban’.. No one can dare say that the initial years of Taliban rule were not a success for an average Afghan. They brought peace & stability to an Afghanistan that was in an indefinite tail-spin.

Pakistan NEVER operated any camps that trained Al-Qaeda fighters.. there’s a difference b/w ISI turning its back to A.Q & OBL and actually actively supporting them so lets not get carried away by impassioned rhetoric.

While Mr Global Watcher continues to chastise Pakistan; he forgets that the current American love interest in the region; ‘India’ was the FIRST country in South Asia to introduce & utilize covert ops by which it trained ‘terrorist’ groups to destabilize neighboring countries, starting with Mukti Bahini [East Pakistan & later on Bangladesh], moving on to India’s masterpiece -> the Tamil Tigers [LTTE] in SriLanka (who, by the way, invented modern day suicide bombings) & later on moved to Shanti Bahini in Bangladesh & sectarian violence in Pakistan.

Simply going on & on about Pakistan with one-sided biased commenting isn’t helping his image here in the comments section

Posted by Sid | Report as abusive
 

Umair,
If you cannot answer a question then please say so and not twist it to state that the answer to my question lies in itself.

You stated:
The fact that Geo TV was taken off the air was due to Geo TV being independent.

GeoTV being independent has absolutely nothing to do with the FACT that the Pak govt took it off the air during the protests.

If Pakistan is a free, independent, democratic society then independent minded Chief Justice Iftikhar would NOT have been illegally removed from his office in the first place for questioning the Government on a number of issues.

Zardari had to give in. Otherwise the next Friends Of Democratic Pakistan meeting would have resulted in a lot less aid. The protests have cost Pakistan a lot money in business. Also such images of protestors do not look good for attracting foreign investments. They were also another distraction in a long list of distractions.

Posted by bulletfish | Report as abusive
 

@User Sid,

This is typical of debates with Pakistani’s they always like to befuddle the issues. They never like to admit fault and being on the wrong side of things. Sid, I have seen this type of debating before:

-bring other countries into it: Afghanistan, India, US
-divert attention to other groups: LTTE, Communists of El Salvador

Mr. Sid, this is called befuddling. I have also seen Musharaff, Zardari, Gen. Hamid Gul and Sharif perplexize problems when asked, they never answer a yes or no answer, but answer with a foggy, perplexed, befuddled rhetorical question, to which there is no answer. This is not intelligence, this is just being plain deceitful. They often used these types of answer to fog or haze and avoid answering the question to which they know they are guilty of.

Have seen this before. This is why nobody believes in Pakistan anymore.

In western societies, the viewership is pretty smart, we don’t get easily diverted to other things. We don’t respect indirect foggy answers, we like direct talk. If we see befuddling talk, this is a strong sign of insincerity.

If you want to see how and what I mean, look at how Hillary Clinton talks regarding the Hamas and Israel issue.

Posted by Global Watcher | Report as abusive
 

People,dont you think we should be focused at the Topic. The chief Justice being restored!
I believe judicial activism would be laid bare since he( Chaundhry Iftikhar) may have already been instructed to tread the water before making any big decisions. I think his reinstatement would be a big letdown for our nation, much as I liken Obama’s being elected President,since I think both of have collosal issues at hand and would underachieve.
Moreover the guy we praise Mr Aitzaz Ahsan for the lawyers movement and their ‘subsequent victor’ is no messiah. Of late he was the Corporate Lawyer of a Pakistani Tellecommunications company called Callmate Tellips Ltd which indulged in a scam of more than 6 Billion Rupees( around one and a half years back and this amounted to 100 Million Dollars). A lot of Pakistani shareholders lost their life savings and I presume Aitzaz got his cut as well from the spoils.
I am not making an accusation but these are facts which you people can check for yourselves.
Therefore I think we should again be pessimistic as to what Aitzaz and Chaudhry have on their sleeves. I don’t trust both of them.
Aitzaz should first help those shareholders get their money back since the management of this company defruaded the people( This was Pakistan’s Satyam but it happend one and a half years earlier) and till date no case has been lodged. I pity you Mr Aitzaz for being such a double dealing Lawyer.

Posted by suleman maniya | Report as abusive
 

Hey GlobalWatcher,
Unfortunately its the Pak politicians who suffer from this too:

Gilani rambled and his thoughts were disjointed and haphazard, his choice of words poor and his grammar and syntax weak during his address at a community dinner at a local hotel on July 29. At the White House where he walked out from the Oval Office with President Bush, he was awkward and unable to express himself clearly, to waiting journalists. He also called Bush “Mr. President Bush” at least twice.

Gilani made an appearance in an open dialogue with Richard Haass, one of US leading foreign policy experts. The large invited audience contained the cream of Washington’s intellectual community. Gilani first read a prepared speech, which contained the unfortunate line – that he repeated elsewhere too ­ “This is not Charlie Wilson’s war. It is Benazir Bhutto’s war.”

(from Pakistan Daily, Thursday, 16 October 2008 02:39)

Posted by bulletfish | Report as abusive
 

It is now clear the Clinton and David milliband forced nawab shariff and Zardari to make a deal by threatning to block all aid from US if the unstable political situation continued..With that I dont think any credit for this should go to Imran khan or anybody..its againt he foreign forces that made decision for pakistans internal matters..Atleast the silverline is that now the US is thinking of blocking aid when pakistani politicians/establishments behave irresponsible..

Posted by Anitha | Report as abusive
 

This is the time to squeeze the vice much tighter on the skull of Pakistan. Withhold every penny until they are honest, accountable, transparent and have a laid out plan of action to smash the Taliban (yes good and bad).

All proxy war jihadi assets must be smashed, or no money.

All back door ISI, Pak Military political stooges supporting the terrorism infrastructure must be smashed.

This is the time for extreme bluntness with Pakistan. Smash the terror camps, smash the terrorist infrasturcture and proxy war training camps, smash the madrasas (the bad ones), arrest and jail all Daewoods’ Lakvi’s, jail AQ Khan the nuclear terrorist selling blueprints to rogue states, etc. and if you don’t comply, be prepared to be smashed.

No exceptions, no befuddling, no excuses, no foggy lame reasons.

The world reserves the right to hold Pakistan fully accountable to the individual level with regards to terrorism.

Let’s wait and see if the so-called lawyers and Judiciary have the bxlls to fight radicalism, corruption and terrorism in a serious, bone crushing, tarnsparent, honest and direct manner.

The world is tired of BS politics and excuses and wants results, or no aid!

Posted by Global Watcher | Report as abusive
 

Umair:
Sorry guys, jumping in here.
@So , Madrasas in Pakistan do not prech hatred, radicalism and violence.
-posted by Umair

Umair: I totally agree that you learnt in madrasa and are doing well. I know Madrasas are not meant for teaching hate. But does that nullify that some Madrasas (in certain areas) are teaching a different version or radical version of Islam with alternate interpretations?

Islam is peaceful–Agreed, it is your faith. I think we all need to revisit what we say. If I say Islam is teaching terrorism, it is wrong. In doing so, the moderates get ticked off that the religion is attacked–fair point. Equally wrong is not accepting the fact that the terrorists are Muslims–or atleast the terrorists believe so. Islam is misused for such purposes. The numbers of terrorists are not small and there has to be a solid motivating force. We cannot be politically correct all the time—it solves nothing. The call of Jihad has been used so many times in the older times too to raise an army against the infidel. It is right or wrong interpretation is another issue. Yesterday only I was reading a history book. Now these writers are reputed and do not losely use the term.

Islam is peaceful agreed but there are Muslim terrorists which have been brainwashed using certain interpretation of Islam. Now you might call them today as not-true Muslims–agreed. Other times, I see peaceful Muslims coming to their defense—saying “these people (terrorists) have the right to defend against the invader, who snatched their house”. if these people are using violence by misnterpretation of Islam, then no peaceful Muslim should come in their defense at any time. This is where I see the discrepency. Depending upon the case, these terrorists can be condemned or their case defended. Also the word “peaceful” is very loaded and can include stuff, which not eveyone will agree to. It is complicated.

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive
 

@On my last comment, please let me be clear, I also condemn any radicalized or terrorist Hindu groups equally, if not moreso. I wholeheartedly reject any hate they preach against any group.

All religions are peaceful at their core, but it is sad that politics that people play with the religion, that is bad is horrible.

I hope that clarifies things.
- Posted by Global Watcher

Global Watcher: How many times have you seen such disclaimers from the other side.

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive
 

@Rajeev:

You said:

“Global Watcher: How many times have you seen such disclaimers from the other side?”

You know Rajeev, those who devalue others, it is only a matter of time, before they devalue each other and plunder and destroy each other.

Hate and supremacy will not make you a better society. People who have moral lapses and deficiencies at their core, will not be unable to comprehend from which dimension my statements come from.

It is beyond their imagination, beyond the ability of their little hearts, minds and souls to understand these everyday concepts of basic human fairness we take for granted. Basic human fairness should not be viewed through a religious context, as religious context again adds another level of human bias of its own.

Neohumanism is a concept from the “Twilight Zone” for some of those people who still embrace supremicist and divisive ideals of the 8th century.

It takes strength, reason, rationality, heart, character, courage and a great spirit to admit you are wrong and admit fault. For some people they still have 1200 years of grinding before they come to realize those basic tenets outside of Pakistan, in the developed world.

Posted by Global Watcher | Report as abusive
 

@Rajeev,

Please see the attached chart on neohumanism. If you look at the circles, IMHO, Pakistan is locked in the first inner four circles and viciously locked in path that does not allow it to escape to the outer two circles. India, like the rest of most modern, civilized countries has for the most part has escaped the first four circles.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:NH_Des ign.jpg

Posted by Global Watcher | Report as abusive
 

Umair, Suleman, Nasir,Ali, Hasan, MWaqar, pk, Ayemenali, Imran, Ahmed Quraishi, Pakistanis
LAWS of PERSECUTION WHICH ARE ILLEGAL IN MOST OF THE CIVILIZED WORLD PASS OF AS QUITE CONSTITUTIONAL IN MUSLIM COUNTRIES. Secularism and equal rights to all its citizens will enhance your self respect and democratic credentials. Thats what the indian posters have in plenty, that’s what they brag about.

REPORT DOCUMENTS PERSECUTION OF HINDUS IN BANGLADESH
Source: indianrealist.wordpress.com

AMSTERDAM, HOLLAND, March 8, 2009: The Global Human Rights Defense has just published its annual report on human rights violations in Bangladesh. The report documents atrocities perpetrated on the Hindu minority in 2008.

Before Bangladesh became a separate country, the Enemy Property Act of 1965 was passed. This law allowed the confiscation of property owned by non-Muslims, considering them to be “enemies of the state.” This act was never repealed; instead, it was renamed as the Vested Property Act 1974, allowing the expropriation of Hindu property to continue. By 2006, over 26 million acres of land had been confiscated from its Hindu owners. Due to this and the communal conflicts that resulted, Hindus have fled to India in great numbers. In 2001, the Awami League government passed an ordinance known as the Vested Property Return Act, but this has never been implemented.

The Vested Property Act creates an atmosphere in which violence against Hindus is accepted. During 2008 the targeting of Hindus continued, with physical attacks (including the raping of many women), the destruction of temples, and the looting of houses. Frequently these victims received little cooperation or help from police.

Specific incidents described in the human rights report include attacks on Hindu homes, resulting in serious injuries to many (including women and children); the looting, illegal demolition and desecration of several Hindu temples; and the partial destruction of the graveyard of a Hindu orphanage. For details, click on “Source” above.
• Email to a friend •

 

@Azaddp,

Azaddp, you fool! Hindus are not equal human as beings by any stretch of the imagination!

Hindus are fleeing Banladesh because it is a conspiracy by Mossaid, CIA, RAW and the Zionists!….Umm…it is an “inside job”.

How dare hindus be asked to be treated like equal human beings in any country, let alone in muslim countries?!?! LOL.

The fact that Hindus numbered 20 % in Pakistan in the past and now today at 1.7% population is purely a conspiracy and lies spread by CIA, Mossaid and RAW to defame Pakistan. Again, this is an “inside job” to malign Pakistan.

The fact that 2.5million Hindus were genocided by Pak Army, is again another conspiracy by Mossaid, CIA and RAW as a campaign to spread disinformation against Pakistan.

All the massacred bodies and pictures and mountain of evidence of the Hindu genocide was imagined and created by Israel, Bollywood, Mickey Mouse, Mighty Mouse and RAW to defame Pakistan.

No hindus were ever genocided, hurt, converted, mistreated and nor was their land taken away. Again these myths are “inside jobs” and conspiracies.

26/11 was also manufactured by CIA, Mossaid, Rambo, Spiderman, Green Aliens to provoke India into a war with Pakistan. Pakistan was completely innocent. I have a feeling that Rambo is playing politics in the subcontinent.

I am most insulted that the world is blaming non-state actors as being Pakistani’s, this again is another myth and conspiracy to malign and hurt Pakistan, when in actual fact, non-state actors originate from the Planet Mars, where all the proxy-terrorist jihadi camps against India originate.

Posted by Global Watcher | Report as abusive
 

http://www.religiousfreedom.com/articles  /blasphemy.htm

Azaddp,

Please see the attached link, this truly represents the equality and human and fair treatment that minorities in Pakistan are getting.

A land should be judged by how well it takes care of those who are minorities. As you can see from the attached article, Pakistan gets an A+ 100% passing grades.

Enjoy.

Posted by Global Watcher | Report as abusive
 

Global Watcher:
Neo-humanism is no doubt a wonderful concept. But since it relies mainly on self-development it may not appeal to everyone. Religion, culture and one’s own ideology are the major factors that dictates 1 to 1 human relationship or other human relationships. I will not club all “most modern, civilized countries” in one group. But one thing I will apprciate is that people in the Western countries (if that is what is being referred to here) have learnt the “art of expression” due to which they appear nice and sweet and their actions appear civil. This “art of expression” comes handy in dealing with the problems in a better way (Ignore Bush doctrine!). This is good enough for routine affairs but zooming in further tells a different story.
Here is from related link.

http://www.kidsworldwide.org/neohumanism .htm

A Song to Greet the Dawn
“Let us move together.
Let us sing together.
Let us come to know our minds together.
Let us share, like sages of the past,
That all individuals together may

- from the ancient Rig Veda

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive
 

Comparison of 2 Resume’s — Chief Executives of Pakistan & India
Error! Filename not specified. Error! Filename not specified.

Chief Executive of India

Title: Prime Minister
Name: Dr Manmohan Singh

EDUCATION /Qualification:
1950: Stood first in BA (Hons), Economics, Panjab University, Chandigarh ,
1952; Stood first in MA (Economics), Panjab University , Chandigarh,
1954; Wright’s Prize for distinguished performance at St John’s College,Cambridge,
1955 and 1957; Wrenbury scholar, University of Cambridge ,
1957; DPhil (Oxford), DLitt (Honoris Causa); PhD thesis on India’s export competitiveness

Working Experience [Teaching]
Professor (Senior lecturer, Economics, 1957-59;
Reader, Economics, 1959-63;
Professor, Economics, Panjab University, Chandigarh, 1963-65;
Professor, International Trade, Delhi School of Economics,Universit y of Delhi , 1969-71;
Honorary professor, Jawaharlal Nehru University,New Delhi, 1976 and Delhi School of Economics, University of Delhi,1996 and Civil Servant

Working Experience [INTERNATIONAL ASSIGNMENTS] :
1966: Economic Affairs Officer
1966-69: Chief, financing for trade section, UNCTAD
1972-74: Deputy for India in IMF Committee of Twenty on International Monetary Reform
1977-79: Indian delegation to Aid-India Consortium Meetings
1980-82: Indo-Soviet joint planning group meeting
1982: Indo-Soviet monitoring group meeting
1993: Commonwealth Heads of Government Meeting Cyprus 1993: Human Rights World Conference, Vienna

Working Experience [Government Positions]:
1971-72: Economic advisor, ministry of foreign trade
1972-76: Chief economic advisor, ministry of finance
1976-80: – Director, Reserve Bank of India; Director, Industrial Development Bank of India;
– Alternate governor for India , Board of governors , Asian Development Bank;
– Alternate governor for India, Board of governors, IBRD
– November 1976 – April 1980: Secretary, ministry of finance (Department of economic affairs);
– Member, finance, Atomic Energy Commission ; Member,finance, Space Commission
April 1980 – September 15, 1982: Member-secretary, Planning Commission
1980-83: Chairman, India Committee of the Indo-Japan joint study committee
September 16, 1982 – January 14 , 1985: Governor, Reserve Bank of India..
1982-85: Alternate Governor for India, Board of governors, International Monetary Fund
1983-84: Member, economic advisory council to the Prime Minister
1985: President, Indian Economic Association
January 15 , 1985 – July 31, 1987: Deputy Chairman, Planning Commission
August 1, 1987 – November 10, 1990: Secretary-general and commissioner, south commission, Geneva
December 10 , 1990 – March 14, 1991: Advisor to the Prime Minister on economic affairs
March 15, 1991 – June 20, 1991: Chairman, UGC
June 21, 1991 – May 15, 1996: Union finance minister
October 1991: Elected to Rajya Sabha from Assam on Congress ticket
June 1995: Re-elected to Rajya Sabha
1996 onwards: Member, Consultative Committee for the ministry of finance
August 1, 1996 – December 4 , 1997: Chairman, Parliamentary standing committee on commerce
March 21, 1998 onwards: Leader of the Opposition, Rajya Sabha
June 5, 1998 onwards: Member, committee on finance
August 13, 1998 onwards: Member, committee on rules
Aug 1998-2001: Member, committee of privileges 2000 onwards: Member,
executive committee, Indian parliamentary group
June 2001: Re-elected to Rajya Sabha
Aug 2001 onwards: Member, general purposes committee
2004: Prime Minister of India

BOOKS:
India’s Export Trends and Prospects for Self-Sustained Growth -Clarendon Press, Oxford University , 1964;
also published a large number of articles in various economic journals .

ACCOMPLISHMENTS:
Adam Smith Prize , University of Cambridge, 1956
Padma Vibhushan , 1987
Euro money Award, Finance Minister of the Year, 1993;
Asia money Award, Finance Minister of the Year for Asia , 1993 and 1994

Chief Executive of Pakistan

Title: President of Pakistan
Name: Asif Ali Zardari

EDUCATION /Qualification:
High School from Cadet College Petaro
Details of higher formal education not known; Claims graduation from London but not available to be verified. As per some account. His official biography says he attended a commercial college called Pedinton School . But a search of tertiary educational institutions in London showed no such school.

Working Experience:
Early days: Working at the family owned Bambino Cinema at Karachi . Some accuse Mr Zardari of small-time ticket frauds to steal money from the family business.
Up till 1987 (marriage to the future Prime Minister, Benazir Bhutto): No record.
1988 to date: While no official record of any business exists, Mr Zardari is widely believed to be one of the (if not the) richest man in Pakistan . An unofficial list of family owned businesses, property and accounts exists but the completeness of the same cannot be verified. Mr Zardari has however been involved in various national and international cases relating to his businesses. The most significant European cases are a Swiss money-laundering inquiry and a British civil cases.

Working Experience [Politics]:
1988-1990: Husband of the Prime Minister
1993–1996: Minister of Environment during his wife’s second term as the Prime Minister
Un till 1999: Senator
30 December 2007: Appointed himself as the co-chairman of the PPP, along with his son Bilawal Bhutto Zardari
September 9, 2008: Zardari was elected president of Pakistan . Sworn in by Abdul Hameed Dogar, whose position as the Chiefe Justice of Pakistan remains a contested issue by an overwhelming majority of the Pakistani legal fraternity.

Working Experience [Other]:
Other experience of Mr Zardari includes his widely believed but not proven involvement in
- Several murders – most famously of his brother in law, possibly his wife
- Wrapping a bomb to the leg of a famous UK businessman to ask for money
- Embezzlement & looting of Billions of Pakistan’s wealth

BOOKS:
None on record

ACCOMPLISHMENTS:
Marrying the then future and now ex (RIP) Prime Minister of Pakistan
Only serving politician to have spent 10 years in Jail
Told the US VP Candidate that she is “gorgeous” and said : “Now I know why the whole of America is crazy about you”. When the photographers asked the two to keep shaking hands, he replied : ” If he insists, I might hug you”. This was one day after the President delivered an emotional speech at the UN in new York waiving a photograph of his deceased wife only months after the murder of his wife.

Posted by anju2008 | Report as abusive
 

To Anju: This is a very happy occasion for the Pakistani nation. Don’t try to spoil it with your hateful and irrelevent post.

Posted by Khan | Report as abusive
 

I guess Pakistan has no choice but to be optimistic for now about the reinstatement.Its the best option we have.The invisible but heavy pressure on the Chief Justice to live up to the expectations and struggle of the civil society can, at least we hope so , mend or rather strengthen the judicial institution.

Posted by Me.89 | Report as abusive
 

@azadpp

Stop posting irrelevant garbage on Pakistani topics.

Back to topic:

This was a popular demand in Pakistan that this judge come back, now that he has, at least this case is closed.

 

India makes world’s cheapest car, Pakistan makes world’s cheapest terrorist .

Posted by anju2008 | Report as abusive
 

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