Concern mounts over U.S. aid worker kidnapped in Pakistan

March 19, 2009

Concern is mounting over the health of John Solecki, an American working for the UNHCR, who was kidnapped from the Pakistani city of Quetta 45 days ago.

The UN said it was worried about an apparent deterioration in his health after a little known Baluch group, which says it is holding him, called a local news agency saying he was seriously ill with a heart condition.

Three deadlines set by a group calling itself the Baluchistan Liberation United Front have passed and a new one was meant to end on Thursday. The group wants the release of 1,000 Baluch prisoners, including women, said to be held in Pakistan government cells.

With little sign of any resolution Pakistani media are questioning the seriousness of the effort to secure Solecki’s release. Neither the Baluch government nor the government in Islamabad had taken the task seriously, the liberal Daily Times said. “No matter who kidnapped Solecki, observers say the government cannot absolve itself of the primary responsibility of protecting all those in Pakistan’s territory,” it said.

And the News wrote of the “casual cruelty” involved in picking up an unarmed aid worker on his way to work. It said there were credible reports that extremist groups had a a sort of “rate card” of potential victims. grading them by their public profile and relative value. And since the number of foreigners on Pakistani soil is dwindling fast, the value of those who remain such as Solecki is high. 

“Cheap targets are no longer of interest. As fewer and fewer foreigners choose to work here their market value is increased by their scarcity and they have become a high-value commodity to be traded for the best price,” it said. So the group holding him has been making demands that would be difficult for any government to accept, including a resolution of the issue of Baluch independence.

The stretched-out abduction drama is being played against the backdrop of increasing U.S. attention on Baluchistan, which is where it believes the founder of the Afghan Taliban Mullah Muhammad Omar is based, directing the insurgency in southern Afghanistan. 

 As highlighted in a previous post, the New York Times reported the Obama administration was considering expanding its covert war in Pakistan to strike at Quetta, the provincial capital of Baluchistan where it believes Mullah Omar runs his shura. Up until now, the United States has focused its unmanned Predator drone campaign on Pakistan’s tribal areas in the northwest, carrying out missile strikes on suspected al Qaeda and Taliban figures and their hideouts.

One U.S. official played down the idea of widening the strikes to Baluchistan, saying it was not being “put forward seriously”, according to this Reuters story. ”You can’t use the same tactics in a settled, populous area … where the government has a great deal of penetration and control as you would in a sparsely populated area where the government has limited presence,” this official said.

Pakistan  which is already chafing at U.S. missile strikes in the northwest has rejected  claims that Baluchistan was a safe haven for the Taliban.  The Islamists did not have political and tribal support in the province, an inspector general of the Frontier Corps said.

[Photo of a protest in Quetta against the killing of a Shi'ite leader] 

 

 
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Comments

The US is going to drive a wedge between Baloch region and the rest of Pakistan. It will be interesting to see which side the Pakistani establishment takes. Looks like US intelligence has started tap dancing with India now. See the link: http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/US-sl euths-in-India-to-talk-dangerous-Pak/art icleshow/4289744.cms

This might in preparation prior to a massive strike into the Taliban heartland. This will also mean that the US will begin to go after elements inside the Pakistani establishment who have been derailing the efforts so far.

Increased war on the Southern Afghanistan – Balochistan border means it gives India some time to breathe. All jiahdi elements will converge against the US for some time and India should use this time to fortify its security. The dust should never be allowed to settle in Pakistan. Otherwise, in order to keep its jihadi monster fed continuously, the establishment turns it against India every time. This has to be plugged off once in for all. May be the US will work with India this time to do the right thing.

I have a hunch that Pakistan’s borders are going to be redrawn in the near future for global safety. We might be seeing a smaller and more manageable Pakistan. Looking at the events that are unfolding, a lot of truth about Pakistan’s unreliability in the war on terror is emerging.

I do not wish for the dismemberment of Pakistan. I’d like them to live well. But the developments in the region demand that a system of smaller Islamic states bodes well for the region as well as the world. If Zardari is removed from power, trust me, he will take up the demand of independent Sindh, just to get at the Punjabhi dominated government led by Nawaz Sharif. He has tasted power and he will do what Jinnah did.

 

Pakistan negotiated with Taliban and released 30+ jailed Talibans to free the Chinese Engineer. Because Chinese Government demanded that Pakistan take some visible action to free the engineer before Zardari visited China.

Similarly, Pakistan Govt freed 300+ Talibans and paid more than 10M USD to SWAT Taliban under army pressure because Taliban kept attacking army without the surrender deal.

But Taliban killed the Italian journalist Italy doesn’t have that kind of leverage with Pakistan Govt. In fact Italian Govt was bitter complaining about Pakistan Govt’s role in the release negotiations.

So the only way secure the release of John Solecki, US and UN should try the Chinese pressure tactics. Pakistan Govt and army will definitely try to scuttle any release process to discredit the BLUF. And all BLUF is asking for release of 150+ women prisoners. BLUF is not Taliban or AQ. US and UN should get involved directly in negotiations and not trust the Pakistanis.

US has so many levers to pull: aid, weapons, diplomacy, drones. Is the US serious about the release?

Posted by Amy | Report as abusive
 

Mauryan, have u ever visited sindh? there r die hard supporters of bhuttos, right in the very interior of the province, cursing zardari. this man has lost all credibility, and u re saying he will lead a movement for an independent sindh? i would recommend reading this article which recently appeared in the guardian:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/ 2009/mar/15/jason-burke-pakistan

zardari is from a balochi tribe and not too popular among sindhis. many only know him as the guy who brought benazir a bad name with his 10% policy.. i would have thought jinnah and zardari share very little in common.

i would be worrying about kashmir if i was an indian (http://edition.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/asiap cf/03/19/kashmir.protests/index.html) and don’t tell me this was pakistan interfering again.

Posted by Mr. Ketchup | Report as abusive
 

Mauryan wrote:
“We might be seeing a smaller and more manageable Pakistan. ”

Pakistan exists of 796,096 SqKM of land, not even a millimeter of it can be divided. You mark my words here, I would again remind you that Pakistan is a nuclear power. I know you get annoyed when its mentioned that Pakistan is a nuclear power, but its important. That what makes the difference, Prime Minister Zulfiqar Bhutto once remarked back in the 70s that “We will eat grass but build a nuclear bomb”. In a short span of time deadly nuclear bombs and cruise missile were developed to ensure every single millimeter of 796,096 SqKM of Pakistani territory is defended to the last drop of blood of 170 million Pakistanis.

” If Zardari is removed from power, trust me, he will take up the demand of independent Sindh,”

My friend, here is some news for you, the people of Sindh including Karachi are the ones with most political awareness in whole Pakistan. The powerful Bhutto dynasty hails from Sindh, the people of Sindh are proud Pakistanis.

“But the developments in the region demand that a system of smaller Islamic states bodes well for the region as well as the world. ”

Islamic states like Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Malaysia, Turkey, Egypt, UAE, are the leaders of Musilm worlds. Pakistan has many allies in them, the OIC is one organization of 54 muslim states, I am sure you dont want fragmented muslim nations in the Islamic bloc. It is my vision that a NATO like Islamic organization is formed, if one muslim country is attacked, entire muslim nations in the whole world should fight on behalf of it.

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive
 

The solution is not to divide Pakistan up into smaller pieces. That would only mean more chances of an official gov’t supporting terrorism. Which means some Western country/countries will have to come in, AGAIN, and clean up the messes of the sub-continent.(India, can you say IMF?) It has been mentioned by a poster on an earlier article that if Britain could rule it all relatively peacefully, why can’t the native population do the same? Simple…racism. To Westerners, you are all brown people who speak a similar language, eat similar foods, and generally have much more symbiotic cultures than even you realize. You were all the same to the British, and they didn’t put up with the whole “I can’t live next to him” complaint. That’s racism from a stereotypical point of view. The modern version, which is what is causing the problems now, is exactly the opposite form of racism – “Any one who is different must be bad.” Only death and misery lie that way.

But back to the issue of this article, time is running out for Pakistan, and quickly. The Baluchistan Liberation United Front is trying to focus US attention on their cause, so we (the US) will pressure Pakistan to release prisoners. We are NOT Israel. I have held my tongue reading these blogs where everyone bashes the US, time and time again. Its easy to bash someone who has more money, a better standard of living, and overall better human rights conditions rather than place the blame on who is responsible for the misery…the people who live there! Americans have not elected Sharif/Zardari ever, Pakistanis did that. We have been labeled as naive and misinformed, and most people in the middle east believe that the US public doesn’t really even know about the situations there. You’re absolutely right. And you better hope it stays that way. Only bad things happen to those who get in the way of US policy AND anger the US public. Sad but true. Trust me, you’ll like the drones way better than the alternative. The excuses are getting old. “India is making it work, why can’t Pakistan?” If/when US citizens start to really pay attention to Pakistan, this is the first question they will ask. And the answer is…Pakistanis! I have said it many times before and I will say it again…

PAKISTAN, YOU DO NOT WANT THE ATTENTION OF THE US PUBLIC!
(unless you want to start paying the world back all its aid money – then everyone will want to be friends with you!)

Posted by Patrick | Report as abusive
 

Patrick
I am an ordinary Pakistani but informed, I believe US has good intentions in the region. US has been an old Pakistan ally, but treats Pakistan unequally. You said that US will treat anyone badly which come in the way of US policy. Isnt this arrogance? I dont believe everyone bashes the US.

I have a friend in Pakistan Army who serves as a captain, once I was in conversation with him on the current situation. His views told me that Pakistan Army is pro-American.

Patrick, you further say the alternative to drone attacks are more worse. Are you saying Tomahawk cruise missiles will take the place of drones? hmmm, well no doubt US fire power is very impressive. Pakistanis would not like to pit themselves against it. You might also not want to anger Pakistan because Pakistan is not weak as Iraq or Afghanistan.

Lastly, I sincerely hope John Solecki’s ordeal comes to an end, he returns safe and recovers psychologically, like Ingrid Betancourt who won her freedom from FARC last year. We all know how tragic the death of Daniel Pearl was, we dont want to see more innocent blood being shed on Pakistani soil.

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive
 

Patrick wrote:
“PAKISTAN, YOU DO NOT WANT THE ATTENTION OF THE US PUBLIC!
(unless you want to start paying the world back all its aid money – then everyone will want to be friends with you!)”

Payback the families and children of 8500 officers and men of Pakistan Army who lost their lives fighting the war. Pakistan is in a state of war, sacrifices are being made, every day. Will you acknowledge, your aid means nothing, given US interests in the region, given Pakistan’s strategic importance, dont tell me your dollars can really bring happiness to a young girl whose dad was killed in the Army during war.
We will do well without the aid money. I know money will not grow on trees in pakistan, it will take more than that for Pakistan to build a strong economy and sustain, to have rule of law and justice for every citizen, to have human rights and freedom of expression, decent education and bright future. Money is not the end, money is a means to an end.

Dont remind us of your aid money, we have given our toil, sweat and blood in return of your few pennies. Pakistan is a 60 years history, in this short time much was achieved, yet there has been many failures but we will surely get there.

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive
 

Patrick, plzzzzzzzz have the aid money cut off from pakistan. the pakistani people will support such a move. the common people do not want the americans to keep funding the thugs who are in power.

pakistanis did vote for the PPP, they did not vote for Zardari who only stepped into the president’s office after musharraf left. why did zalmay khalizadeh, and the US in turn, interfere in the internal matters of pakistan by supporting Zardari to be president when pakistani people detested this man? (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/w orld/asia/article4613960.ece )

read iranian history to find out how america creates revolutions though imperial policies. do u know about the Status of Forces Agreement (SOFA) which caused so much anger among ordinary Iranians by giving immunity to US military advisors and families in the country from local laws?

learn from your own history. ask yourself why did US invade cambodia after vietnam disaster? (and why is US attacking pakistan after afghan disaster?)

The Pakistanis are most concerned about our missing people, including Balochis who have disappeared, this is one reason why we supported the restoration of Iftikhar Chaudhry. He was fighting the cases of the missing persons (and both zardari and ure US government did not want him back.)

Posted by Mr. Ketchup | Report as abusive
 

Umair wrote: “The powerful Bhutto dynasty hails from Sindh, the people of Sindh are proud Pakistanis. ”

Umair, I understand that in your history books, it is mentioned that general Niazi conquered India and the Indians surrendered to him in Dhaka. And Bangladesh is a Bollywood movie directed by Salman Rushdie. Anyway, when that movie was released in 1971, there were two Pakistani movies released at the same time. One was the call for Sindhu Desh and the other was the liberation of Balochistan. The Pakistani military brutally quashed the directors of these movies.

Pakistan is more vulnerable today than before. The only thing that ever unites all Pakistanis, be it the lunatic or the fanatic, is India. I do not know why. We want to mind our own business and your countrymen (from the government to the military to the common man) do not like it. Look at the Mumbai attacks that happened for no reason. Before that India was minding its own business, making progress economically and otherwise. We are all back now, looking at Pakistan with a magnifying glass because of what happened at Mumbai. Otherwise, you will not be seeing some of us here.

You keep saying your country is a nuclear power over and over again. That is not going to scare the US. Your missiles or nuclear weapons can’t do anything to the US. India will not mess with Pakistan. We are living too close to you. It can only be done covertly, just like what Pakistan has been doing to India. And I feel it is time we turned that on. This is like the US cannot control Mexican illegal immigrants or drug trafficking across its borders. This doesn’t mean that the Mexicans can take on the mighty USA.

The reason why Pakistan must be brought to a manageable size is because of the very reason you are harping about. It is nuclear and it is a hot bed of terrorism and religious fanaticism. And, like it or not, Pakistan is talked about negatively as an unstable, unreliable danger zone in Western TV. During cold war days, it was considered a strategic ally against communism. Pakistan played the role of a drug trafficker and petty thief who got some money to help the cops go after a bigger enemy. So long as you kept to your territory, they didn’t care. But unfortunately, the people you hang out with, robbed the cop and he is no sitting in your backyard.

Like all roads leading to Rome, all Islamic terrorist links lead to Pakistan. Today, this is a reality whether you like it or not. And to contain that, one of the things to consider is to size up your country into smaller nations. This need not be the only solution. But it is worth looking at (not by you, but by others). I am sure not every province in Pakistan has the same macho attitude. While the sizing up is being done, the nukes can be removed with enough financial incentives.

Bhutto can eat as much grass as he wants. He is buried already to facilitate that.

The term “a Stable Pakistan” has become an oxymoron in today’s context. Don’t worry, the events will lead to the final stage.

 

Mauryan, have u ever visited sindh?? there r die hard supporters of bhutto, right in the very interior of the province, cursing zardari. this man has lost all credibility, and u re saying he will lead a movement for an independent sindh? i would recommend reading this article which recently appeared in the guardian:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/ 2009/mar/15/jason-burke-pakistan

zardari is from a balochi tribe and not too popular among sindhis. many only know him as the guy who brought benazir a bad name with his 10% policy.. i would have thought jinnah and zardari share very little in common.

i would be worrying about kashmir if i was an indian (http://edition.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/asiap cf/03/19/kashmir.protests/index.html) and don’t tell me this was pakistan interfering again.

Posted by Mr. Ketchup | Report as abusive
 

Umair writes: “It is my vision that a NATO like Islamic organization is formed, if one muslim country is attacked, entire muslim nations in the whole world should fight on behalf of it.”

What a vision! If the Islamic nations unite, there will be another bloc formed of non-Islamic states that will turn their turrets in your direction. It will be called as Cold War II.

What has driven the Islamic world to its current state is its tendency towards isolating itself from the rest of the world, while getting all the goodies from the outside world. Muslims do not breathe a different air. You have to share this world whether you like it or not. If you cannot, then collectively shut your nostrils and stop breathing the air polluted by the kafirs.

On second thoughts, you can still form an Islamic bloc with a few modifications to your grand idea – Make Sindhu Desh, Balochistan, Pashtunistan, Talibanistan (What is today’s Pakistani Punjab), Kurdistan, Unleaded gasoline (Sunni Iraq), Super Unleaded gasoline (Shia Iraq), Palm Oil (Malaysia), and the other great Islamic civilizations like Somalia, Sudan etc.. Camel caravans can travel from one end of this world to another. You can have conferences and strategic meetings on war with Israel, war with Armenians, war with Americans, war with Hindus, war with crusaders, war with the modern world etc. Good luck.

 

Umair writes again: “Dont remind us of your aid money, we have given our toil, sweat and blood in return of your few pennies. Pakistan is a 60 years history, in this short time much was achieved,”

Who did you give your toil to? Your sweat and blood erupted in Chechnya, Dagestan, Kashmir, New York, London, Madrid, Mumbai, Bali, Dar es Salaam, Nairobi etc. A few pennies eh! Your country has survived for 60 odd years only by means of these few pennies. Otherwise, there would be dead grass all over. And Bhutto would be busy eating them. You got Sabre jets, Patton tanks, Night vision goggles, state of the art training, Stinger missiles, F16s and what not. They don’t come for free. Your country was doing belly dance to get all these. The Soviet invasion of Afghanistan was Allah’s gift to your country. Now you could justify filling up your backyard with weapons for using against your arch enemy India. All you wanted was that your masters turn a blind eye when you indulged in your raids into India. And they did, so long as your tentacles stayed within your territory. But macho mindset does not think much. It got out of hand and stung the masters. So they are sitting in your house ordering you around. Serve them well or they will raze down your hut.

 

Mauryan
The reason I keep reminding you that Pakistan is a 170 million strong muslim nation armed with deadly nuclear weapons and sophisticated missile systems is the same, your rant that Pakistan should be divided.
The sun of 1971 has disappeared below the horizon for ever long ago. A nuclear Pakistan is capable of fighting nultiple enemies at the same time.
Mauryan, the muslim nations hold sizeable amount of world oil supply. If that is withheld for some time, it would wrech havoc to western economies.
I dont give a damn about what you state about Pkaistan. Pakistan is a democratic and free nation, Pakistan has a free judicial system. Pakistan is a MNNA(major Non Nato US Ally). Pakistan is the highest contributor to UN peacekeeping misisons around the world. Pakistan is a member of Commonwealth, UN, WTO, OIC, SAARC and has observer status in many other international organizations with good standing. Pakistan is a strategically important country, an agriculture based economy, Pkaistan has oil and gas resources and other mineral resources with the world’s largest irrigation system. You keep saying Pakistan to be divided into smaller territory. I will keep reminding you itsimpossible to divide a nuclear power.
We have relations with the rest of the world, we are not myopic, our faith does not tell us to kill blindly, we are against terrorism.
You are a Pakistan hater and I cant blame you for what you state, your poisonous mind is polluted with dirty thoughts, its futile to argue with you. My Bad luck I bumped into you.

Posted by Mauryan | Report as abusive
 

Umair,
Why is it that when a Chinese person gets kidnapped in Pakistan, the Pak govt bend over backwards to retrieve him/her? Zardari even went as far ‘delivering’ a Chinese engineer, personally to China. Yet a Polish engineer is decapitated by the Taliban (please don’t split hairs with other Terrorist groups). These foreigners came to HELP develop Pakistan and not to be killed there.

“No matter who kidnapped Solecki, observers say the government cannot absolve itself of the primary responsibility of protecting all those in Pakistan’s territory,” it said.

You once told a previous blog that Pakistan contributes that greatest numbers of manpower to UN Peacekeeping missions around the world. So, a kidnapped UN aid worker in Pakistani territory would only be worth rescuing if he was Chinese?

Posted by bulletfish | Report as abusive
 

Umair writes again: “Dont remind us of your aid money, we have given our toil, sweat and blood in return of your few pennies. Pakistan is a 60 years history, in this short time much was achieved,”

BULLSH*T!!!
Pakistan may not be a failed state, but it sure is a PROUD BEGGAR STATE. Your 60-year history is so circular that its like a dog chasing its own tail: Military dictator > Corrupt Politician > Military dictator > Corrupt Politician…etc. What EXACTLY was achieved? What has Pakistan created, enabled, formed that has been of great contribution to the world? I would love to mention cricket, but Lahore put an end to that.

You gave you Swat to Taliban, but could not give presidential security to the Sri Lankan cricket team, as PROMISED!!!

How exactly does Pakistan pay for its weaponary? With your toil, sweat and blood? Are these the words used at the Friends Of Democratic Pakistan Meetings to get aid?

“Yes Uncle Saudi I will honorably offer you my toil, sweat and blood in exchange for oil defferments.”

You spend too much time and effort toiling away at creating Long Marches and protests distracting attention from one disaster (Lahore attacks) and highlighting another (Chief Justice sacking).

Pakistan and its politicians are BIG on words and small on delivering.

Zardari made a passionate speech at the UN waving his deceased wife’s photo and then calls Sarah Palin gorgeous to make a complete fool of himself.

Gilani once said, “This is not Charlie Wilson’s War, but Benazir Bhutto’s war!” He was laughed at by the White House officials for using this phrase too many times in his speech.

Umair, you can show off your nuclear weapons and all other Chinese imitated toys to your heart’s content because at the end of the day, Pakistan will not be using them against the US drone attacks nor the Taliban attacks. These weapons are no deterrent to those already fermenting attacks on Pakistani soil.

Posted by bulletfish | Report as abusive
 

Obviously why Pakistan should be interested in release of UN Worker, UN is not giving $$$ to Pakistan.

Things would be different if he was a USA Soldier or Chinese Engg.

One has to twist arm of Pakistan to get things working and UN is a toothless organisation.

Posted by punjabiyaar | Report as abusive
 

I predict the eventual unraveling of Pakistan. The great Wahabi-Deoband experiment will come to an end. It is just a matter of time. Baloch and Sindh will partition out of Pakistan. I would be surprised if the world has not already been brokering and approaching military men to bribe them and facilitate disintigration.

As aid and food run out in Pak, the Punjab’s Sindhi’s and Balochi’s will be eating each other.

If the Khalistan liberation organization wants a homeland, they can carve it out of Punjabi Pakistan, where the larger portion of punjab exists, then Kashmir problem and agitation will cease also.

As the world economic crisis deepens, Pakistan will feel the squeeze, maybe Umair does not, as he lives in a gated community in Islamabad or Rawalpindi with servants, and uniformed soldiers around him, but the Pak. Military will become more and more bribeable and bribed they will be, that is a certainty, to capitalize on the weak moment.

Civil strife will compound in Pakistan as the have nots will attack the have’s, therefore it is a good idea if you build a larger gate in your gated community, as people may think there is food in there.

The powers that be, rest assured, are behind the scenes facilitating the slow disintegration of Pakistan to the history books.

The World is not willing to stomach any more terrorism and will do what is necessary to stop it. Pakistan will disintegrate. Umair, you are welcome to come and travel India as you wish, once that happens, as out of economic need, the remaining portions will join with India, and the NWFP, SWAT, etc may join with Afghanistan or form their own nation, if they wish.

Long live an independent and un-repressed Baluchistan and long live Mukhtar Mai.

Posted by Global Watcher | Report as abusive
 

@Umair,

http://counterterrorismblog.org/2009/03/ who_rules_pakistan.php

Perhaps Iftikhar Chaudry should put the military on trial. I think that would be the first step to true democracy, the Paki Military needs to lose its grip on Pakistani society and all the privileges of the military must be stopped.

Posted by Global Watcher | Report as abusive
 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnew s/1574939/Bhutto-son-warns-of-disintegra tion-of-Pakistan.html

Bilawal Bhutto afraid of Pak. Disintegration FYI.

Posted by Global Watcher | Report as abusive
 

Global Watcher:

bilawal, someone who has not even lived in pakistan, are u going to take his word for it?

looky here, hindu extremists target tourists in goa:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnew s/asia/india/5023199/Hindu-militants-tar get-British-women-drinking-in-Goa-bars.h tml

mark my words, if hindu extremism is not contained, it will lead to the disintegration of india in a few years. religious extremism will have a much greater impact in india then pakistan, because india has large numbers of muslims, christians(growing very fast) and sikh minorities. all it could take is one or two more bjp governments ..

Posted by Mr. Ketchup | Report as abusive
 

http://buddham.wordpress.com/

Will Pakistan Survive?

Here are a few questions for you all to think about and, if possible, answer:

1- How will the map of South Asia look in 2015?
2- Do you think the international boundaries in South Asia, especially in Pakistan, are poised to be redrawn?
3- Who gains and who loses if Pakistan is divided into three parts: the tribal areas including Balochistan, Sindh and Punjab and the rest of “Azad Kashmir”?
4- What will be the possible role of the US, China and India in the next five years?

Posted by Buddham | Report as abusive
 

Sure the Baloch are angry and the reasons are well known but hinting that the baloch nationalist may be behind the kidnapping of John Solecki as a mark of protest does not ring true. Maybe they are but more likely not if you apply cold logic and reasoning. It looks more like the ISI’s handiwork using their protégés, the Taliban.
Firstly, it a totally new group, unheard by anyone up till now, that has claimed responsibility for the kidnapping. The name is also an instant giveaway. BLUF! (One can almost imagine a junior ISI officer chortling away at this aptly named subterfuge.)

What have the Baloch nationalists to gain from this?
Nothing. By and large, Baloch are not fundamentalists when you compare them with their cousins in Punjab or NWFP. They have little reason to pick on Americans or westerners who are mostly aid workers, filling in for the responsibility abdicated by their rulers in Islamabad.
Further, the demands for the release of missing people including women in several hundreds appear so vague and ambiguous, it almost wishes that it can’t be even considered let alone be met. That probably is the intention. A frivolous demand devoid of any relation to reality that is impossible to meet. The only outcome is the death of the hostage, which is how, regrettably, this sordid drama may play itself out. The captors can’t afford to release John Solecki alive, for then the truth will be out.

Now what does the ISI (with its minion the Taliban) have to gain from this?
Discrediting the nationalist Baloch movement specially in the eyes of western governments and rights groups who have taken up the issues of human rights excesses by the Pakistani state in Balochistan.

Unlike the Chinese engineers, who were ‘lucky’ to be kidnapped by ‘Taliban not under the control of Pakistan’, since they could be bribed to effect their release, Solecki may be the unfortunate victim in a gruesome realpolitik drama where the stage actors are from the Pakistani establishment itself.

Posted by Munna Bhai | Report as abusive
 

@ Umair, Mr. Ketchup

Hate the US if it makes you feel better. But the reality of the situation is everyone, including the US, is confounded on how to stop religious extremism. Read any history, including Iran’s, and you’ll see the key to peace is…drum roll please…money! We have it, you don’t. I’m not trying to belittle Pakistan. It is just the way things are. And by the way, the policy that included SOFA was a horrible and uninformed strategy. I don’t blame you for ranting against that. But it doesn’t fix anything NOW, only rehashes mistakes of the past. Is Pakistan free of bad past decisions?
The reason the US and others backed Zardari is that we are getting really scared that the Pakistani people can’t stop this carousel of corruption. PPP didn’t do any better when they had a chance, and re-electing them because they hijacked the “Long March” is a bad idea.
The US gov’t wants allies in the region, and they want them all to get along. But don’t think because of oil or a few nukes that Pakistan is somehow more powerful than other nations. Most of the nations involved in Afghanistan, except Afghanistan, have more than a few nukes and can get oil through other routes. The only deterrent Pak’s nukes provide is from India. That’s it. Other than that, the world only worries about Pakistan selling them or just losing them in a revolt. That is not something to brag about.
I do want to reiterate that the US gov’t and public would love to have a friend in a stable, democratic Pakistan, but history shows you will need help.

Posted by Patrick | Report as abusive
 

Munna Bhai

—bull’s-eyes!

Posted by anup | Report as abusive
 

The Pakistani authorities have been releasing militants in huge numbers, but refuses to release or produce before the courts the missing Baloch people to secure the release of Solecki. Pakistan is ready to sacrifice the life of a UN official for its narrow political objectives.
Read: http://thetrajectory.com/blogs/?p=309

 

Patrick:
“Read any history, including Iran’s, and you’ll see the key to peace is…drum roll please…money!We have it, you don’t. I’m not trying to belittle Pakistan. It is just the way things are. ”

but u have belittled pakistan, my friend, so allow me to respond. I guess you still havn’t read the REAL history of Iran. How the Pahalvi Shah at one stage made Iran the biggest buyer of US weapons (billions wasted) where is ure money now with the economic crises and soaring unemployment? HA! when will u guys learn that money will not buy you stability or real friends? When will Pakistan’s army learn that US weapons will not bring any stability, only the reverse?

the immortal quotes of henry kissinger ring even truer today then when he first said them: “To be an enemy of America can be dangerous, but to be a friend is fatal”

pakistani leaders over the decades went out of there way to accomodate US interests, even when india was allied with the Soviets. our leaders bowed down, we were told to be humble and accept uncle sam with open arms.. where is pakistan today? being BOMBED out by our own misguided master!!

compared this with Iran which, no matter how wrong their own human rights and theocratic nightmare, can proudly say they figured out the magic formula to dealing with the US: never give in! tell the US who the real bossman is!! “Tehran says US president’s appeal to Iranian people must be followed up with action” this is what it says on the Guardian website at the moment. compare this with pakistani state constantly bowing down to demands to do more!! and now we are being thanked with bombs after bombs.

i grew up loving the US, ure freedom, ure democracy. but when i see now what ure country has done to my country (especially our democracy and freedoms!!!) i oppose mullah style of government, could never live in such a country where clerics ruled, but pakistan is being pushed by the US in the arms of the taliban..

supporting zardari is like supporting the mafia in Italy!

and for all the gleeful indians watching the spectacle with wonder and constantly rubbing salt into pakistan’s wounds, let me again repeat kissinger’s quote: “To be an enemy of America can be dangerous, but to be a friend is fatal”

pakistan seems to be in its final stages of friendship with the US, but India is just starting to get cozy with uncle sam :)

Posted by Mr. Ketchup | Report as abusive
 

and for all the gleeful indians watching the spectacle with wonder and constantly rubbing salt into pakistan’s wounds, let me again repeat kissinger’s quote: “To be an enemy of America can be dangerous, but to be a friend is fatal”

pakistan seems to be in its final stages of friendship with the US, but India is just starting to get cozy with uncle sam

- Posted by Mr. Ketchup

Mr ketchup pakistan was more of an unconditional friend to USA. they recieved aid money and most of the time there was martial law in pakistan which made USA and army nexus stronger rather than dealing with political class they always promoted army and were happy to deal with dictators there in pakistan and never tried nurturing democracy.

ON THE OTHER HAND india is a democratic country with various parties..last year the indian govt almost destablised because of some parties pulling out of govt as they were agaisnt nuclear deal with america..

We all know that wheather its russia , USA or israel they have friendly relations with india because its in their interest to have friendly relations with india..

india would have liked to have good relations with pakistan as this has been hampering india’s progress too….and its status as regional power..but the loss of trust after 26/11 has definately made matters more confusing..

pakistan was never a potential threat for india as a real threat is from China…pakistan is just a small player which is been playing in the hands of USA or china sometimes….

now that’s what happens when people in uniform make foriegn policies for u…. the concept of democracy has come out strongly in pakistan…and i m sure it will do good.. but there is a long way to go..

Posted by Raging bull | Report as abusive
 

@Mr. Ketchup

You can throw ever Islamist terrorist and Ram Shiv Sena on the same boat and sink the damn thing. I don’t care for terrorists, wherever they are, regardless of their misuse of religion and misguided use of culture.

I especially hate even more than the terrorists is those supposed governments that give them weapons, training and “moral” support and ultimately to be used as Jihadi proxy armies.

I don’t think India is creating Hindu Jihadi proxy armies, but this is in fact the Pakistani Army business model, and mark those words down, this business model will be shut down sooner or later. Either willingly or by brute force.

No, India is not about to disintegrate, the Shiv Sena, like the Islamic terrorists are too few in number to make a huge difference, the Shiv Sena are formed as an antithesis to the Islamic Terrorists who plot on India.

I can promise Pakistan this, if it creates more Islamic Jihadi proxy armies, the Universe has a way of balancing itself and creating more Hindu extremists as well. But one thing though, is those Hindu extremists are not crossing the line of control and doing suicide missions or trying to re-occupy Pakistan Kashmir, there is a difference, my friend, Mr. Ketchup.

If India radicalizes, it will not be for the purpose of splitting up India, but for the purpose of wiping Pakistan off the map.

If Pakistan does not want Hindu extremists forming, it should not let Islamic Fundamentalists grow in numbers either.

As in any society, there are a fringe group of Hindus who are fedup being raped and occupied by other nations for the last 1200 years. Please note that their rise in numbers is directly correlated to the Pakistani terrrorist attacks on India since the last decade.

Posted by Global Watcher | Report as abusive
 

Ketchup writes: ““To be an enemy of America can be dangerous, but to be a friend is fatal” ”

Kissinger forgot to mention an important thing to go with it – if it is not a strong nation.

What makes a nation strong? – Self reliance on many fronts, a deep foundation for a variety of areas like manufacturing, agriculture, technology, R & D, quality education, resources etc. In this regard, countries like India, China and many others who cozy up with the US, are strong. India is a huge emerging power in a variety of areas like IT. Its coffers are not empty. It achieved the green revolution long ago.

When such is the case, relationship with a power like the US will not be in the same level as is the case for countries like Pakistan. Forgive my saying. Other than achieving nuclear and missile technology (that too by stealthy means), what else Pakistan is known for? May be some carpets. Its gun manufacturing stalls in Peshawar and the surrounding areas is also famous. Other than that, Pakistan is an empty tin can. So it will get kicked around by big nations. And they’d rattle when being tossed. What Kissinger said is true for such nations. And there are plenty in Central and South America that fight drug wars and communistic guerrillas. They are generally known as the “Banana republics.”

Pakistan, unfortunately, is a banana republic. It is not your fault. For the past 60 years, your leaders spent all their time trying to get at India and did not build anything that a developing nation needs.

The US has been on cozy terms with China too. Has it become fatal? It has made China stronger. It all depends upon what a country is made of. If countries become like drug addicts, selling themselves for money, they will get the appropriate treatment.

India will not fall if it befriends the US. It has a deep foundation that is highly respected. India is not feared for its nukes. It is only admired for its emergence despite the odds that are against it – poverty, illiteracy, diseases, malnutrition, social issues etc.

 

Mauryan
Pakistan is not a banana republic being kicked by big powers.
What are you bragging about India? what have you achieved, 25% of Indian population consists of Dalit low cate hindus living in misery, what about the dozen insurgencies, what about Pkaistnai flag waved in Assam, killing of christians in Orrisa, hindu fanatics gaining more influence, rising HIV? India is far from being an emerging power.
Hey Mauryan, India can never compete with China! Can India conduct olympic games successfully like Beijing 2008? no, never in the coming 25 years. Only IPL is being postponed due to upcoming elections.

Pakistan is a free, democratic, Islamic repulic, Pakistan is a strong military power with huge natural resources and a talented work force.

Mauryan, you have a serious problem here, what are you trying to do? conducting a smear campaign against Pakistan? Look at your own country, becoming a mini-regional power is your wet dream.

Long Live Pakistan!

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive
 

Mauryan barks:
“India is a huge emerging power in a variety of areas like IT. Its coffers are not empty. It achieved the green revolution long ago.”

Ho really, why do Dalit low caste hindus live in misery? why are there so many slums in Mumbai? emerging super powers are not plagued with communal violence like what happens in India day in and day out. The Muslim massacres in Gujrat, where Mosques are burned down, the killing of christians, India is still myred in old problems. The corrupt politicians dont make things any better. Who the hell are you trying to fool Mauryan?

“Other than achieving nuclear and missile technology (that too by stealthy means),”

Ok, atleast you admit Pakistan has gained technological edge in sophisticated cruise missile and nuclear technology. Atleast my efforts constantly reminding you of Pkaistan’s nuclear capability paid off.

“Pakistan, unfortunately, is a banana republic.”
-So is India a Guava Republic? Hey Mauryan dont state nonsense, I want to see some more mature comments from you kid!
Dont expect Pkaistanis to sit back when you state utter nonsense about Pkaistan. I will talkback and I have all the right to do so.

Tell your stories of Indian greatness to someone else, we all know the pettiness of your country. Your hollow claims to power and leadership are not going to impress anyone, countries like USA have come a long way, facing wars, civil wars, civil rights movements, racism and overcome the forces of evil to achieve greatness and have become destination of choice of millions of immigrants across the world.
I am sure, if given a chance every single poverty stricken Indian will try to leave that hell hole.

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive
 

Mauryan barks:
“India is not feared for its nukes.”

Pakistan is always feared because of its nukes, Pakistan is not a coward nation like India. India despite being a nuclear power is attacked by terrorists every five years. In 2001 Indian parliament was attaked, in 2008 Mumbai was attacked. Each time India tries to attack and Punish Pakistan, but Pakistan threatens to counter attack and retaliate. Matters escalate and super powers intervene and tell India to restrain itself because a war with Pkaistan will not be survivable for India. Ultimately India comes back to its senses and lives with the reality.

Mauryan, as you state India’s coffers are not empty, fine. Agreed. Fair enough. Just spend a few million dollars, make a counter terrorists force, give them best training and deploy them for India’s security. Indian Navy vessels were busy attacking Somali pirates, while terrorists sneaked into Mumbai through internationl waters.
Mauryan, India being a super power and its territorial water breached? terrorists hapily sail into its shores and kill people? This is really laughable, maybe Indian Navy vessles must be called off the ocean and deploy near the coast to defend it.

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive
 

@Umair,

Pakistan is like an aggressive criminal, keeping India and the rest of the world hostage with its Nukes.

You should be greatful that India showed restraint and maturity when it had in its full right to decapitate Pakistan permanently.

Be grateful, because the next time Pakistan WILL get splattered and no one will come to its rescue and no one will stop India or get in the way and you will have no where to hide.

India can survive a nuclear exchange, Pakistan would be cleaned within 10 minutes.

Just keep your nuke mouth shut.

Posted by Global Watcher | Report as abusive
 

@Mauryan,

It is time the Americans and India setup a missile defence shield along its western border with Pakistan. India would reciprocate by providing Drone bases all along its western border. The same should be done along afghan.

Posted by Global Watcher | Report as abusive
 

Patrick

Quote- you are all same to us- unquote

I am not calling you racist, because you are not and I understand you perfectly clear.

That’s is the precise mistake brits have made all along. Whenever indians tried to reason with brits they brushed all indian concerns under carpet, after sometime indians had stopped trying. The result is obvious- Brits have homegrown/ imported terrorists on their soil all having undeniable connections with Pakistan. Their Indian immigrants are rated high in areas like education, employment and of course assimilation. Prime Minister Vajpayee addressed US Congress in late 80s and warned that terrorism respects no borders, drawing attention to cross border proxy war by pak, again ignored by US law makers as *indopak thing*. We know what happened.

If situation is reversed and looked at white people you will be astonished to see why French and brits fought forever and continue to do so now on a different scale; also WW2 is a white vs. white one mostly. With these examples in the background, you don’t want US to be equated with Nazi Germans just because both were white and warring against each other, do you.

Pak, in the very beginning, was formed out of hatred, hatred for hindus, so they demanded a muslim state for muslims, even though it didn’t turn out to be that way. India proclaimed itself to be secular by its future constitution, many moderate muslims stayed back in India and their population is more than Pakistanis now.

On what grounds india should lose land now, it is absurd.

US Tax dollars were thrown into this snake pit and no one knows when the feeding hand will be bitten. The nuclear bluff is not bought even by india. All indian muslims are angry with pak, each time there is a terror attack hindus, muslims and Christians get killed in india. The indian muslims are ashamed that paks are killing in the name of religion, why should not they, in what respect this nation ever won hearts of world. The only area its known all over the world is as a global terror exporter. And not tomention its insatiable appetite for loans (write offs invariably).

US had helped big way by changing the administrations in both Iraq and afghan. Its an entirely different matter, they both are breaking their teeth with the precious stone (democracy) gifted to them. Its not the fault of the US. Breaking up Pak may make the new future smaller nations to realize they can get better life if they reprioritize their issues. One by one small countries can be won over with nation building and good relations. The threat of terror will shrink to one small country which can be tackled easily.

 

Global watcher, a US-India missile defence mechanism is useless even if deployed. Such a defence could work against a country as far as Turkey, but Pakistan is just next door. By the time your missile defence units are able to mobilize and detect, Pakistani missiles will have already hit Indian targets.

There was a time in 1980s when the worlkd could have done something about Pakistan nuclear mnd missile ambitions. One attack on Kahuta at that time would have reversed Pakistan nuclear program. Its too late now, Pakistan has almost 50 nuclear war heads and long rane missiles to deploy them. These are stored in unknown secret location. Pakistan uranium enrichment capability and nuclear technology along with missile capability is irreversable now.

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive
 

Global watcher:

“You can throw ever Islamist terrorist and Ram Shiv Sena on the same boat and sink the damn thing. I don’t care for terrorists, wherever they are, regardless of their misuse of religion and misguided use of culture.”

Agreed!

“No, India is not about to disintegrate, the Shiv Sena, like the Islamic terrorists are too few in number to make a huge difference, the Shiv Sena are formed as an antithesis to the Islamic Terrorists who plot on India”

now this is where the problems begins. India has already disintegrated in 1947, east Pakistan and west Pakistan respectively. So this has already happened. East Pakistan subsequently broke free of west Pakistan due to atrocities committed by Pak army and unfair treatment from the west Pakistani elite. So even the Bengal is not one. India is broken, and this breaking was a reaction to the suppressions of the Muslims under a perceived (and also real) threat from fanatical elements in the Hindu majority. Incidentally the fundamentalist Jamat e Islami party, led by that extremist Maududi, was among those who opposed the creation of Pakistan.

There is no justification for Hindu extremism, even as a what u call it so called reaction to Islamic extremism. Now do explain, are these ‘Islamic Terrorists’ only Pakistanis or do they include Indian Muslims? Or how about Kashmiris? Plz clarify.

“As in any society, there are a fringe group of Hindus who are fedup being raped and occupied by other nations for the last 1200 years.”
You have hit at the crux of the matter. I know u are trying to explain the extremist Hindu argument but there is a misinformation held on a grander scale by many ,it would seem, in the moderate majority as well. This is the unfortunate tragedy. If India is so secure about its secular identity, its accommodation of all religions and ethnicities, why does this tale of 1200 years of occupation keep turning up? over and over and over its the same story. What do u make of Varun Gandhi’s latest anti-Muslim rant?

I am reminded of a deplorable quote from RSS’s Golwalker: “Ever since that evil day, when Moslems first landed in Hindustan, right up to the present moment, the Hindu Nation has been gallantly fighting on to take on these despoilers. The Race Spirit has been awakening.”

And also his other rotten statement: “To keep up the purity of its race and culture, Germany shocked the world by her purging the country of the Semitic races – the Jews. Race pride at its highest has been manifested here … a good lesson for us in Hindustan to learn and profit by.” (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/de c/12/mumbai-arundhati-roy) this was apparently back in 1939, when there was no Pakistan to blame for all India’s ills!!

The Muslims of the Subcontinent (India, Pakistan, Bangladesh) together form the largest population of the Muslims anywhere in the world. India alone is the third (or is it second largest Muslim country?) So this is not an occupation, Muslims form as much a part of this landscape as Hindus. One can only hope Indian Muslims do not continuously have to keep proving their loyalty to India, or keep being threatened with expulsion by Hindu extremists if Kashmir is ever freed.

Posted by Mr. Ketchup | Report as abusive
 

Global Watcher said: “India can survive a nuclear exchange, Pakistan would be cleaned within 10 minutes.
Just keep your nuke mouth shut.”

And Umair said: “Its too late now, Pakistan has almost 50 nuclear war heads and long range missiles to deploy them. These are stored in unknown secret location.”

U should both reconsider your statements. Nuclear weapons are nothing to boast about. They only illustrate the failures of our two nations to do something for the 100s of millions still living in poverty amidst all this military hardware glitter and nuclear bombs?!!? These weapons are symbols of Pakistan and India’s exploding failure towards its poor, not the other way round.

Posted by Mr. Ketchup | Report as abusive
 

Mauryan:
“India will not fall if it befriends the US. It has a deep foundation that is highly respected. India is not feared for its nukes. It is only admired for its emergence despite the odds that are against it – poverty, illiteracy, diseases, malnutrition, social issues etc.”

I agree India has a lot to be proud of, especially its achievements in recent years. the Mumbai tragedy did derail and bring to a abrupt the possibilities of peace between pakistan and india.

but the US definately has an agenda. it feels like america wants to push india and pakistan to war sometime in the future, the ensuing destruction would be the ruin of the entire region and halt the rising economic clout of asia (including china.) one hopes this never happens.

Posted by Mr. Ketchup | Report as abusive
 

Pakistan continues to empty jails and free Talibans. Just in last month, 400+ Talinan were freed under various deals.

Across the border, US and NATO toll rises fast. Just in last month, 20+ US and NATO soldiers died, highest monthly toll in 2 years.

http://www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=892 35&sectionid=351020401

http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2009/03/20  /afghanistan-soldiers.html

Posted by David | Report as abusive
 

Ketchup writes: “but the US definately has an agenda. it feels like america wants to push india and pakistan to war sometime in the future, the ensuing destruction would be the ruin of the entire region and halt the rising economic clout of asia (including china.) one hopes this never happens.”

I agree that the US makes short sighted foreign policies and it causes a lot of heart ache to everyone, Americans included. Their Iraq mess is an example. There was no need to go there at all. Now they are stuck. Now the US troops are stationed in three places in the middle east (Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Afghanistan) and they are not leaving the place any time soon. But looks like it costs close to 2000 dollars per day per soldier. American economy is staring at the bottom of the well right now. So they will be forced to cut down somewhere. But if the soldiers return home, they will join the long queue of the unemployed. So war has to go on somewhere to keep the lamp burning. Extrapolating based on the recent events, I foresee a large scale conflict involving the US, its allies on one side and China and the Islamic world on the other. And I guess it will originate in Pakistan. War seems to follow whenever economic crises build up.

Like I had mentioned, the US also has a small nation like UK as its ally and UK is a developed country after going broke during WW II. So being an ally is not the condition that will lead to being left in shambles. In the case of Pakistan, its own internal development, independence in a variety of aspects etc are absent. In fact being an ally of the West has helped Pakistan survive on drips this far. If that drip is cut off, Pakistan will have face dire situation for money.

India was a terribly poor socialistic country once. Not anymore. It can survive on its own for a while since it has enough infrastructure built in for survival. And developed nations need India’s business at the same time. Being an ally of the US will not be fatal for India. It was not for China. The same hold true here. India is not dependent on the US for money as Pakistan is. Therein lies the difference. Being a smaller nation, Pakistan’s needs are much smaller. But your leaders could not even set up things for it all these years. And it cannot happen overnight either. It is going to be frustrating for Pakistanis to watch their leaders dancing to American tunes.

 

Umair vomits: “Pakistan is always feared because of its nukes, Pakistan is not a coward nation like India. India despite being a nuclear power is attacked by terrorists every five years.”

Look into any normal nation. They have police, federal agents, intelligence units, commandos and so on. Still they fear gun toting criminals. This does not make them cowards. India is a nuclear power. But it knows its responsibility. It is not banking on its nukes for everything. Pakistan (your own words are adequate for this) resembles a drunken convict on parole who is clicking the trigger of his AK 47 after going high on drugs. One has to stay away from lunatics and drunk criminals. That is what India is doing. And India is keeping restrained because Pakistan has the support of US and its allies for their own agenda. And Pakistan is a tool for China to keep India backward. We are not afraid of your nukes. We have them too. But if we are forced to use them, we know we will suffer losses. But we will eliminate the threat once in for all if the need arises. So do not feel secure. Your nukes will not save you. India has enough population to come out of it.

“In 2001 Indian parliament was attaked, in 2008 Mumbai was attacked. Each time India tries to attack and Punish Pakistan, but Pakistan threatens to counter attack and retaliate. Matters escalate and super powers intervene and tell India to restrain itself because a war with Pkaistan will not be survivable for India. Ultimately India comes back to its senses and lives with the reality.”

So you indirectly agree that Pakistan has been behind every attack inside India. We all know this and being made of criminal minds, it is not surprising that your country does these things. We know that you are doing this so that we will retaliate and then you can use that to solve your internal problem. Your leaders, from the days of Jinnah have been doing this. Set up some commotion and wait for the retaliation to come. Jinnah got Pakistan this way. Now Pakistan will fall apart for the same mind set. Only people with little brains will make such short sighted plans. We are holding our horses because we do not want to walk into your trap. We all know that the word “India” will unite your countrymen, from lunatic to the fanatic. We don’t want to do that. And we are pressured from going after you guys is because the US and UK do not want their objectives jeopardized. Until they are done with their tasks, they do not want a war in the region.

India is holding off its nukes or war escalation because they are sensing that your dear country is on its own suicide mission. So it is better to let your country jump off the cliff by itself rather than go to fight it. So enjoy your time now. Because Pakistan will disintegrate in a short while. Hopefully it will not be a violent one.

 

Umair vomits again: “why do Dalit low caste hindus live in misery? why are there so many slums in Mumbai? ”

Poor people are everywhere, even in the developed countries. India has the second largest population in the world. And it was a third world country for a long time. So percentage wise the people in slum are higher in number. Even countries like Brazil have similar slums.

“emerging super powers are not plagued with communal violence like what happens in India day in and day out.”

This is what your jihadi propaganda machinery is telling you. Communal riots are not a daily occurrence in India. They do happen once in a while and they are not based on religion alone. There is a huge middle class now and our women are getting more jobs and independence. And that is slowly breaking the caste system apart. Things take time. Slavery too 400 years to be eradicated in the US. We are on the right path. It is only a matter of time. Compared to what it was, things have improved a lot and they will continue to improve. This is something your jihadi mindset will not understand. You want quick results and quick verdict. So you like the Taliban. Your military has no patience to allow governments to evolve. We are not like that. We are patient and we allow things to develop. For a country like India, it will take easily a 100 to 150 years to get to a better stage. This is something I do not expect someone like you to understand anyway. So what you are pointing at are snap shots of the current situation.

“The Muslim massacres in Gujrat, where Mosques are burned down, the killing of christians, India is still myred in old problems. The corrupt politicians dont make things any better. Who the hell are you trying to fool Mauryan?”

Muslim massacre happened in Gujerat a few years ago. It is not happening everyday. Most of us do not support such actions. We have goons too and some times they do these things for political gains. But as time goes on, we will become stronger. Corrupt politicians are everywhere. Not just in India. And we have made it this far despite their presence.

I don’t have to fool you. You already are one.

 

@Pakistan is not a coward nation like India.
-posted by Umair

Umair, with all due respect, fu$k you for this statement. Remember if you spit filth against India, I am not going to sit back and watch this crap. We know all languages–your choice to pick one. Remember that blogger “Ali”–He is long gone into some Pakistani “hell hole” (borrowing your language) after getting some of his own medicine.

Sing this “we are brave enemy is coward” song to someone else, India knows you inside out. You continue to have amnesia about Pakistan bravery despite knowing that Pak has attacked India to show its so-called bravery but had to bite the dust each time. Your words will not change the historical truths about the plain cowardice and incompetence of your army. Its is better for you to quietly swallow the bitter pill rather than make a scene. Also, it is not India, by now the deeds of Nuclear Pakistan are known to the world and each Tom Dick and Harry knows that Nuclear Pakistan Army has run away from Taliban in Swat without spilling even the first drop of blood? Right now, people want their money back or results. Just the name “Pak” does not make Pakistan any pure. All terrorist organizations have such Godly names. Frankly speaking, Pakistan is an immoral and deceitful state that no one trusts. The worst that can happen to anyone is loss of trust. It will take many years, many Long Marches to build it provided you behave responsibly.

Just to refresh your memory, Pakistan’s 9/11 has already happened in 1948-the day revered Quaid-e-Azam Muhammad Ali Jinnah exhaled his last breath (September 11, 1948). Since then Pakistan has not seen its way back and right now it is looking at the sky while falling from a fathomless pit. Long March etc is just one of the distractions on your fast slide down-unfortunately. You can play this circus of democracy as much as you want, but the fact remains that stick is ruling you all the time.

No hard feelings, but watch while you talk and know your boundaries.

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive
 

Umair,

Your behaviour & language is typical, once a paki always a paki.

From your statements its clear that you are acknowleding that the 1002 parliament and 2008 mumbai attak were pakistan’s glorious acts. I am glad atleast you are not in denial and relish your country proud legacy.

To my knowledge pakistan is the only country whose people are proud of being labelled as terrorist sanctury.

p.s: please dont use words like pakistan and democracy in the same sentence.

Posted by indian1127 | Report as abusive
 

@Navy vessels were busy attacking Somali pirates, while terrorists sneaked into Mumbai through internationl waters.
-posted by Umair

Umair:

Agreed. Poor security on Indian part–but that it is due to Indian Navy busy somewhere else is childish. Offense and defense teams are separate in a game. sam here–coast guard did dismal job–although they got close but did not pay attention.
But, did you ever think that this also tells about Pakistan security since 10 terrorists escaped from Karachi port into Pakistan waters crossing further towards India. Alternatively, Pakistan security was collaborating with the terrirists. which one would you pick?

1.

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive
 

@Sanjeev Migliani,

Sanjeev, I am grateful and humbly thank you and respect your topics.

BBC has a fellow named Steven Sackur, how does a segment called “HARDTALK”. It is a more forward and directed venue to get to the root of problems and extract answers. In such the same way, I am proposing the following topics and ask you, if you would be so bold to do try the following topics:

“Pakistan’s citizens unwilling to protest against terrorism”

“Pakistan, unwilling to dismantle terrorist training camps”

“Pakistan’s state agencies and terrorism and jihadi proxy armies”

“Is Pakistan holding the world hostage with its Nukes?”

“Pakistani Army and its Business of Terrorism”.

“Is Pakistani cricket more important than fighting terrorism?”

“Are Pakistani’s living in denial”?

“Is the U.S. being deceived by Pakistan on the War on Terror?”

These are just some of the core issues and topics being released from bloggers here the variuos think tanks like Carnegie around the world and the same issues that Pakistan is avoiding discussing. It is time for more frankness and openness.

If we never discuss these issues, they will always fester in the background and be continually causing deviation in topics you put forward.

You may not respond here, but please consider them.

Posted by Global Watcher | Report as abusive
 

@Umair,

You Pakistani’s can keep your nukes, planes and tanks, we really don’t care what you do, so long as you do not keep making threats and pointing them at us. What the world wants is those cloak and dagger terrorist planners, terrorism jihadi proxy asset creators and their cavorts in Uniforms, I know you know who they are, etc in Rawalpindi and Islamabad to be removed for good from their ability to create terrorism in whatever form they have been doing it. The corruption in the Pakistani command structure must be removed, no exceptions.

Posted by Global Watcher | Report as abusive
 

Umair Wrote:
“Hey Mauryan, India can never compete with China! Can India conduct olympic games successfully like Beijing 2008? no, never in the coming 25 years. Only IPL is being postponed due to upcoming elections.”

Hey Umair, IPL is postponed due to elections right, but why can’t you guys conduct any game ? and for how many years ?

You did blackmail or beg srilanka for cricket, but what did they get in end, bullets in chest ? You cowards, good for nothing terrorists, you call people to come and play in your country and then you spray bullets on them. Go fcuk yourself in your stinky $hit hole and keep living this misrable life.

TSP* and its people are going to watch other teams play standing in front of a TV showroom for a long long time. What a pity.

BTW world is still waiting for any news of Progress in Lahore attack.

*TSP = Terrorist state of Pakistan.

Posted by punjabiyaar | Report as abusive
 

@Rajeev

What do you call a country that posts a million soldiers, then issues threats, then withdraws those soldiers ?

You call it a cowardly India.

Now back to topic:

These Baloch separatist groups are based in Afghanistan and US does nothing against them. Now they are unhappy that an American has been kidnapped by these groups. US should crackdown on these groups in Afghanistan.

 

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