Lashkar-e-Taiba threatens more violence in Kashmir

March 25, 2009

The Lashkar-e-Taiba, the Pakistan-based militant group blamed by India for last November’s assault on Mumbai, has threatened more violence in Kashmir after a five-day gunbattle that killed 25 people, including eight Indian troops.

A spokesman for the group, speaking from an undisclosed location, said: “India should understand the freedom struggle in Kashmir was not over, it is active with full force.”

The threat by the Lashkar-e-Taiba, if followed through, would be a new headache for the United States, which would like to see an improvement in relations between India and Pakistan as it overhauls its approach to both Afghanistan and Pakistan.

Washington has been careful to avoid any suggestion that it would intervene overtly in the Kashmir dispute, in what has been seen as an acknowledgement of Indian sensitivities about outside interference.  But Indian newspapers have reported that the United States has nonetheless been quietly leaning on India to reduce tensions on Pakistan’s eastern border so that its army can concentrate on fighting militants on its western border with Afghanistan.

And former CIA officer Bruce Riedel, leading a review of strategy in Afghanistan and Pakistan expected to be released this week, has suggested in the past that a resolution of the Kashmir dispute would help ease tensions across the region.

In an interview with Germany’s Spiegel magazine last December, he said that for those involved in global jihad, the Kashmir cause is in many ways “like a second Palestine”.  Solving the conflict and bringing peace between Israelis and Palestinians, he said, would help dry up support for al Qaeda. “We are not going to get al Qaeda to change its mind. These are fanatics. What we want to do, though, is to separate the fanatics from the rest of the Islamic world.”

So the last thing Washington needs is any new flare-up in violence in Kashmir that would push back any chance of resolving the dispute and raise tensions along the India-Pakistan border. (Before a ceasefire was agreed at the end of 2003, the Indian and Pakistani armies fought near daily artillery duels across the Line of Control dividing Kashmir, which India said were meant to prevent infiltration of militants into Kashmir from the Pakistani side.)

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On the subject of the review of strategy in Afghanistan and Pakistan, special envoy Richard Holbrooke made a couple of intriguing comments in an interview with the BBC this week. 

First he said openly that the Afghan Taliban were based in Quetta in the Pakistani province of Baluchistan.  “Quetta appears to be the headquarters for the leaders of the Taliban and some of the worst people in the world,” he said.  Many analysts have assumed for some time that the Afghan Taliban are operating out of Quetta — so much so that the New York Times suggested earlier this month that the United States might extend its attacks on militant targets on the Pakistan border into Baluchistan. But it’s quite new for U.S. policymakers to talk publicly about the Taliban’s presence in Quetta.

Foreign Policy picked up on a similar statement last week by Lieutenant General Michael Maples, head of the Defense Intelligence Agency.  “Now that the U.S. government has gone on record that the Quetta shura … is operating openly in Pakistan, it won’t be long before policymakers are asked some pretty tough and uncomfortable questions,” it said. “Like, what are you doing about the fact that our own government now admits that the Taliban’s nerve center is functioning not in Pakistan’s tribal areas, but in the capital of a major Pakistani province…”

Secondly, the BBC quoted Holbrooke as saying that conflicting reports that Taliban leader Mullah Omar himself may support dialogue was a “mysterious issue” that U.S. officials were ”trying to learn more about”.  I’ve discussed the question of talks with the Taliban in an earlier post but I thought that response from Holbrooke was curious.

For an interesting take on the possibility of talks with the Taliban, Jean MacKenzie, program director for the Institute for War and Peace Reporting in Afghanistan has published an interview in the Global Post with two former high-ranking Taliban officials who both said dialogue was feasible.

She also has a separate story on an interview with the former Taliban ambassador to Pakistan.  There’s a lot in there worth reading, though I was struck by his comment that “you cannot talk to the Taliban from a position of strength. We are Afghans. If we are in a lower position, and the enemy acts tough, we will act 10 times tougher.”  That is perhaps one answer to those who say the United States should improve its military position against the Taliban first before it considers dialogue.

(Reuters photos: Women mourn at the funeral of a Kashmiri Muslim soldier/Fayaz Kabli; and U.S. envoy Richard Holbrooke)

143 comments

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Now that LeT has openly admitted about its insurgency inside Kashmir, the Indian government should issue stern warning to Pakistan and Washington that India will have to take out this non-state machinery operating from inside Pakistan. Many insurgents are Pakistani military personnel. Most are not Kashmiris. They do not want Kashmir to settle down. As soon as the snow started melting, they are back. Assembly elections are going to start soon and no one wants militancy poking its ugly face again. I am surprised that the Indian government has not called the Pakistani government about it yet.

Although I know very well all my Indian friends will step up their rhtoric and fill up comments accusing Pakistan of “sponsoring terrorism”. Here is my opinion;

Lashkar-e-Toiba is a banned organization in Pakistan, its leadership either in hiding or under detention. LeT might be on its last legs, thats why it might be indulging in desperate attempts (attacks). Pakistan has nothing to do with the violence in Kashmir, Indians must think themselves. 60 years of occupation and they still cannot subdue the Kashmiris. Tha Kashmir dispute need a resolution according to the wishes of Kashmiri muslims. Whether India likes it or not, US has been indirectly mediating over Kashmir and other issues. British Foreign Sec. David Milliban noted in a visit to India that resolution of Kashmir dispute is necessary to normaliza India-Pakistan relations. I think here, the ball lies in India’s court. There is not much one can do about LeT, why is it that LeT has always to blame for, why shouldnt India fulfill its obligations and implement UN security council resolutions on Kashmir, which were passed when even LeT was not existing. Just now, India waits for another 10 years and no wonder many other terrorist organizations will come up to fight in Kashmir. Settle the Kashmir dispute and ensure peace and stability.

As with the Taliban, it is quite possible due to a sustained campaign by Pakistan Army in FATA and NWFP the millitants were pushed into Baluchistan. Important thing is to keep them under pressure, even if they are in Baluchsitan, they are merely surviving. No time to plan attacks. The sooner the process to begin negotiate with them and bring them into mainstream, it is better.

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive

Umair,

India will crush the Let, I don’t care what soil they are on. Let them try once more.

Posted by Global Watcher | Report as abusive

Afghan Strikes by Taliban Get Pakistan Help, U.S. Aides Say

WASHINGTON — The Taliban’s widening military campaign in southern Afghanistan is made possible in part by direct support from operatives in Pakistan’s military intelligence agency, despite Pakistani government promises to sever ties to militant groups fighting in Afghanistan, according to American government officials.

The support consists of money, military supplies and strategic planning guidance to Taliban commanders who are gearing up to confront the international force in Afghanistan that will soon include some 17,000 American reinforcements.

Support for the Taliban, as well as other militant groups, is coordinated by operatives inside the shadowy S Wing of the Pakistan’s spy service, the Directorate for Inter-Services Intelligence, the officials said.

Details of the ISI’s continuing ties to militant groups were described by a half-dozen American, Pakistani and other security officials during recent interviews in Washington and the Pakistani capital, Islamabad.

Top American officials speak frankly about how the situation has changed little since last summer, when evidence showed that ISI operatives helped plan the bombing of the Indian Embassy in Kabul, an attack that killed 54 people

But American officials said that when fighters needed fuel or ammunition to sustain their attacks against American troops across the border in eastern Afghanistan, they would turn to the ISI.

The ISI support for militants extends beyond those operating in the tribal areas. American officials said the spy agency had also shared intelligence with Lashkar-e-Taiba, the Pakistan-based militant group suspected of conducting the Mumbai attacks, and provided protection for it.

when the Haqqani fighters need to stay a step ahead of American forces stalking them on the ground and in the air, they rely on moles within the spy agency to tip them off to allied missions planned against them, American military officials said.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/26/world/ asia/26tribal.html?ref=world

Posted by David | Report as abusive

the occupation in kashmir is india copying the tactics of their former british colonists (think the israelis recreating the holocaust in palestine)

Posted by Mr. Ketchup | Report as abusive

“India is stealing water of life, says Pakistan.
Thousands of Punjab farmers suffer as river Chenab runs dry…Pakistan blames India, saying it is withholding millions of cubic feet of water upstream on the Chenab in Indian-administered Kashmir and storing it in the massive Baglihar dam in order to produce hydro-electricity.”
:http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world  /asia/india-is-stealing-water-of-life-s ays-pakistan-1654291.html

this is the height of injustice! once a regional bully, always a.. even the couldn’t care less Zardari is condemning this one!!

Posted by Mr. Ketchup | Report as abusive

Mr. Ketchup,
If you have a neighbor who fires rockets to your house every day, kidnaps your children, you, your wife and old parents hide in the basement in fear of rockets, how would you deal with such a neighbor?

If Palestinans are not checked, it will become a Pakistan very fast. Do you need more migraines? India did that mistake 30 years back and paying a price now.

In picture above, Kashmir women are crying for a dead Indian soldier. In last vote, 67% people elected to vote their own government. Indian army still tolerate and protects Kashmir separatist leaders, who live on ISI payroll. Does it look like occupation to you? Compare India’s actions with Chinese actions in Tibet or Pakistan’s actions in Balochistan?

Posted by Ravi | Report as abusive

Mr. Ketchup,
World Bank is the guarantor in the 1960′s Indus Water Treaty. Pakistan invited World Bank numerous times and every time World Bank judges didn’t find anything wrong with India.

Pakistan is bankrupt and asking India for compensation money. Whenever Pakistan needs money, all this artificial injustices show up.

India didn’t even cancel the treaty and stood up to the agreement during last 3 wars with Pakistan. I think, India should cancel the Indus Water Treaty. Ask Pakistan for a terrorist compliance certificate before releasing any water. No water for terrorists!

Posted by Ravi | Report as abusive

David,

Thanks for the link to the NYT story:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/26/world/ asia/26tribal.html?_r=1&ref=world

Does it not reinforce the argument that if you can get India and Pakistan right, then Afghanistan will take care of itself?

Umair,

You said the Taliban should be brought into the mainstream, which presumably means accommodating them in some kind of political settlement in Kabul.

But how would you ensure that they did not in future give sanctuary to al Qaeda? Or sympathise with anti-India militants, as was the case in the 1999/2000 Kathmandu to Kandahar hijacking? I’ve often heard the argument that the Taliban is essentially an Afghan movement, which unlike al Qaeda does not have global ambitions, or represent a global threat. What I haven’t heard yet are coherent explanations of how the Taliban would stop Afghanistan from being used as a base for Islamist militancy outside the country.

Myra

Posted by Myra MacDonald | Report as abusive

Mr. Ketchup,
Are you with them or are you with us?

Posted by Ravi | Report as abusive

Umair writes: “Pakistan has nothing to do with the violence in Kashmir, Indians must think themselves. 60 years of occupation and they still cannot subdue the Kashmiris.”

Which planet are you living on? Musharraf says in one of his televised speeches, “Kashmir will always be in the blood of every Pakistani.” Kargill attacks were masterminded, planned and launched by Musharraf before he took over power. LeT has mentioned it over and over again that they fight the Indian military and did not want to stop with that. They wanted to take out the entire Indian nation. Even now they have claimed responsibility for the conflict inside Kashmir.

LeT is a Pakistani organization, very much like Shiv Sena is an Indian organization. LeT cannot get money from the air to plan, train and launch its offensives inside an enemy territory. It needs political and military backing. Just officially declaring that they are banned in Pakistan doesn’t amount much. All those guys fighting the Indian military are not Kashmiris entirely either. 90% of them are war hardened criminals from inside Pakistan who kill for money and false ideology. Half of them are army regulars from Pakistan. Ordinary Kashmiris lack that kind of military training and logistics to launch offensive against an established military. If they do, it means they are getting trained in Pakistan, which exposes the lie from the Pakistani side.

Our system is big. A bunch of small time criminals cannot dismantle an organized national military. So keep sending those idiots to die. At some point your organizations will run out of money. One needs a lot of money to organize these things. We will take a hit here or there. But our resistance to your attempts will not decrease. In the end, you will lose. Violent means will not work with us. Recently there is a photograph of Kashmiris crying for the death of a native who was an Indian soldier that died fighting the criminals from Pakistan.

This is not going to stop here. LeT is not going to have a free hand like before. The Indian establishment is already talking with others fighting terrorism in the region and just watch how things are going to turn out in the future. We have been doing a one handed kid glove game with your trained idiots for over 20 years and nothing has shaken us. Your country is teetering on the brink of bankruptcy. So at the end your country is the loser. Keep coming. We’ll take them all and we will still be around after your country has splintered into fragments.

Myra writes: “Does it not reinforce the argument that if you can get India and Pakistan right, then Afghanistan will take care of itself?”

What is there to right India about? Is it a terrorist nation? Why is India being pulled into the picture. This is the mistake westerners are making – equating India with Pakistan. Only when the realization comes that they are not, will there be any solution. Pakistan is not a nation by any definition. It has areas where the law of the land does not hold. Its military runs the country. Its intelligence controls the military. It has nothing but terrorism to offer to the world. It is a rogue nation. And why is India being equated with it? India can definitely be involved in the plans related to the regional stability issues.

If you are talking about Kashmir, this is not the right time to bring that issue to the table. Though my fellow Indians disagree with me, Kashmir resolution can only be handled when peace returns to the region 100%. Free will of the people can only be heard when there is no violent threats and terrorism in the area. Settling Kashmir in this environment will not do anything to improve the situation. The world has to work on Pakistan first, before the Chinese get their neck in. Only then Afghanistan can be settled. India will definitely do what it can to help. But there is nothing to settle between India and Pakistan now, other than complete annihilation of Pakistan’s terrorist infrastructure.

Myra,

“Does it not reinforce the argument that if you can get India and Pakistan right, then Afghanistan will take care of itself?”

How will you get India right? What has India done wrong? What are you thinking? Where you got this idea from?

Since when we discipline the bleeding victims to appease the shooting terrorists? There is only one country that needs to be fixed and that will take care of everybody’s migraines.

Anyway, please hold on to this idea for 6 months and we’ll discuss after that. Some smart people are saying P won’t live 6 months. When India gets a new PM in May, lets see if P is still there. All of P’s problems are self-inflected and there is very little India can do to make P feel better.

P will explode very soon when another 30000 US/NATO soldiers land in the border.

Posted by David | Report as abusive

This P problem started with USA and will end when USA decides. Very much like a patient (on life support) and doctor relation.

Right now, USA is trying every new brand and doses of medicine to see what works.

Very soon, USA will come to the conclusion that EUTHANASIA is the only medicine left.

Posted by David | Report as abusive

Gzeee .. I thought Pakistan didn’t like the Drones ..:)

U.S. and Pakistani intelligence officials are drawing up a fresh list of terrorist targets for Predator drone strikes along the Pakistan-Afghanistan border, part of a U.S. review of the drone program, according to officials involved.

Pakistani President Asif Ali Zardari and army chief Gen. Ashfaq Kayani have quietly supported the attacks even though the strikes have stirred domestic unrest

Meanwhile, U.S. officials say they are continuing to find evidence Pakistan’s Inter-Services Intelligence agency continues to support militant groups in Afghanistan, including the Taliban, and groups run by Jalaluddin Haqqani and Gulbuddin Hekmatyar.

U.S. officials say that telecommunications intercepts showed ISI officials were in contact with Mr. Haqqani’s operatives when they bombed the Indian embassy in Kabul last July.

The review is examining ways to reduce the time it takes between identifying a target and when the Predators fire — now less than 45 minutes — said a former CIA official.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB12380341 4843244161.html?mod=googlenews_wsj

Posted by David | Report as abusive

It only goes downhill from here .. New Obama policies are coming as early as this Friday.

Pakistani intelligence officials say four people have been killed after a suspected US drone aircraft fired two missiles into a house in the North Waziristan region on the Afghan border.

The incident occurred early on Thursday outside the town of Mir Ali, they said.

The strike was the second in the area in two days. A missile believed to have been launched by an unmanned US drone killed at least seven fighters in South Waziristan on Wednesday

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/asia/2 009/03/200932633023483524.html

Posted by David | Report as abusive

Obama’s Policy:

According to one defense official close to the debate, the key to success in Afghanistan remains eliminating terrorist safe havens and training camps, which are no longer in Afghanistan but in Pakistan

The key to any strategy remains Pakistan and its border regions, which remain terror safe havens

The Holbrooke-Petraeus-Clinton faction, according to the sources, prevailed. The result is expected to be a major, long-term military and civilian program to reinvent Afghanistan from one of the most backward, least developed nations to a relatively prosperous democratic state.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009  /mar/26/inside-the-ring-23718486/?page= 2

Posted by David | Report as abusive

David and Mauryan,

I am glad you asked Myra about her quote that ‘get india and pakistan right and afghanistan will take care of itself’. these kind of arguments doesn’t make me take the reuters bloggers seriously.

first of all afghanistan unrest was brough up by taleban which was nourished by pakistan. india has nothing to do with it . infact taleban is an enemy of india. india doesn’t like a taleban in aghanistan.

it is quite baffling to read what you said Myra. It only makes me wonder the level of understand or knowledge in these matters.

Posted by vivek | Report as abusive

If what LeT say is true then all hell will break lose in Kashmir. Pakistan can tell the world as much as it likes that LeT is a banned organisation, but it will soon revert to calling them freedom fighters again. Pakistan has already ceded Swat region to the Taliban making it a country with 2 legal systems. The Taliban say that they want to be left alone and the West should stop sending tanks, fighter planes etc to fight them. That the West should see the positive side of this and not the negative. However, are the Taliban going to leave anyone alone? Would the people of J&K like to have Taliban’s Sharia?

If LeT attack across the LoC then…India WILL respond in kind.
Zardari will going running to Obama with his tail between his legs to pressure India to stop.
Pak Army will line themselves along the eastern border.
Taliban will vow to fight side-by-side with the Pak Army.
NATO and the other allies do not want this.
Pakistan will be pressured to stop LeT.
Pakistan will make a few arrests and GeoTV will quote that a few NON-STATE ACTORS responsible have been caught.
Attacks acorss LoC cease.
Obama et al give Pakistan a commendation.
NATO gives Pakistan a few slaps on the back of praise.
Pak Army moves back from eastern border.
Pakistan and Zardari in Obama’s good books and receive more aid.
Pakistan releases NON-STATE ACTORS due to lack of evidence.

Back to square one.

Posted by bulletfish | Report as abusive

Myra in response to question put forward:

“But how would you ensure that they did not in future give sanctuary to al Qaeda? Or sympathise with anti-India militants, as was the case in the 1999/2000 Kathmandu to Kandahar hijacking? I’ve often heard the argument that the Taliban is essentially an Afghan movement, which unlike al Qaeda does not have global ambitions, or represent a global threat. What I haven’t heard yet are coherent explanations of how the Taliban would stop Afghanistan from being used as a base for Islamist militancy outside the country.”

Myra, in the mid and late 90s the Taliban assumed power in Afghanistan largely supported by Pakistan. The US, Pakistan and Mujahideen fought together and defeated the Soviets back in 1989. The US showed little interest to engage Mujahideen factions later rebuild the war torn country, left unchecked Afghanistan gradually became a safe heaven of Al-Qaeda. Pakistan cannot be blamed for this. Taliban siezed control of 90% of the country, Pakistan recognized them because they were a reality on ground.

The Taliban at that time were only recognized by and had diplomatic relations with Pakistan, UAE and Saudi Arabia. The Taliban were myopic, their leadership seldom came out of their stronghold of Kandahar. Pakistan did the right thing to engage with them despite their shortsightedness.
Yes, you are right acts like aiding the hijackers of Indian airliner IC-814 at Kandahar airport in 1999 and destroying the Bhudda in Bamian were destructive. The Taliban I am sure have learnt a lot in these last 8 years and matured.
Besides, Pakistan in 2001, made every effort, Gen. Musharraf personally wanted to go to Kandahar to convince Mullah Omar to handover Al-Qaeda leadership to USA and save his country and people. But ISI D.G Gen. Mahmood Ahmed stopped Gen. Musharraf due to security reasons and went himself but failed to sucure surrender of OBL and Al-Qaeda leaders. I think Taliban were lacking in diplomacy and power of negotiating.

Now is the time for continuous engagement, give legitimate role to Taliban in Afghanistan. I am sure they will not let Afghanistan become a safe heaven for Al- Qaeda again, the responsibility of international community including Pakistan is to ensure externally that Al-Qaeda is uprooted, that its unable to establish its stronghold in Afghanistan again, That it cant make inroads in Afghanistan again. Wider diplomatic recognition of Taliban will be the key, the Taliban will be mindful of their responsibility this way. The Taliban should be seen as part of solution rather than part of the problem.

As with, how to ensure Taliban dont sympathise with anti-India millitants, Pakistan is the key here. Pakistan will guarantee that neither Pakistan, nor Taliban support anti-Indian millitants. Pakistan is a responsible member of international community and will ensure its soil is not used to plan/launch on third countries. Pakistan will and should make clear to Taliban openly not to support anti-Indian millitants. But in return India should normalize its relations with Pakistan.

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive

All my Indian friends are upset and questioning Myra while she stated:

“Does it not reinforce the argument that if you can get India and Pakistan right, then Afghanistan will take care of itself?”

I think everyone got it wrong, what I understood of above statement is that both India and Pakistan have strained relations and are competing for influence in Afghanistan. If Indo-Pak relations are normalized, Afghanistan will get on its own feet and become stable automatically. Indian-Pakistani-Afghan stability is interlinked and mutual cooperation and peaceful relations between any two countries is important for the stability and security of third.

So I would agree here that if Indian and Pakistan relations can get on the right track, Afghanistan will become stable. Pakistan is concerned India will use Afghanistan as a base to destabilize Baluchistan. That is where the problem lies, just as India comes out with completely clear intention not to do so, Pakistan will reciprocate and normal Indo-Pak relationship will ensure a more stable Afghanistan.

Now this is pretty simple, no one needs to be a scientist to understand this.

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive

The US is right to look at the whole India-Pakistan-Kashmir issue through the narrow prism of its own security. Similarly India is equally right to look at the situation from its own security pov.

I still haven’t understood this logic about sorting out Kashmir will ease things in AAfghanistan. The Kashmir issue pre-dates anything in Afghanistan by a few decades. It may suit some to look at it otherwise, but the fact is they are not connected. What the US wants is for India to say peace and goodwill towards all on earth and let the Pakistanis move troops to the west so that US security interests are looked after. Sorry won’t happen.

Similarly this issue of the LeT threatening to continue action in Kashmir. The fact is India does not expect that either the Let or the ISI or any govt.in Pakistan will shift focus away from Kashmir, specially when there are internal upheavals in Pakistan. This has been their old stage managed act since the beginning. Things bad in Pak, ratchet up tension against India and rally forces. When will they learn that after 60 years of failure, it is simply not going to work. OK India will take a few hits, but there’s no way that these tactics will wear down India or improve things. They can continue tying it for the next 600 years and they will still be fighting their heads off and dreaming of virgins in never, never land.

I can already hear my Pak friends here reminding us once again that Pak is a nuclear state and as someone also said has won the world cup in cicket and has never lost a war to India. They can continue reading their history books written by Zia and then continued by his successors. They forget that India too has done all this and before Pakistan, which has simply reacted. Only difference is India has moved on, Pakistan is unable to take its people forward. So they can keep chaerging up their own morale with false bravado, but the fact is that they are only bluffing themselve. Oh yes and the US too.

Yes, you are right acts like aiding the hijackers of Indian airliner IC-814 at Kandahar airport in 1999 and destroying the Bhudda in Bamian were destructive. The Taliban I am sure have learnt a lot in these last 8 years and matured.

NO THEY HAVE NOT. OTHERWISE WHY HAVE THEY TAKEN OVER SWAT?

To save the hostages, India released a man who went on to behead the journalist Daniel Pearl.

give legitimate role to Taliban in Afghanistan. I am sure they will not let Afghanistan become a safe heaven for Al- Qaeda again.

NO, THEY WILL CONTINUE TO GIVE AL QAEDA A SAFE HAVEN. IF YOU ARE SO SURE WHAT GUARANTEES CAN YOU GIVE? WOULD YOU STAKE YOUR OWN HEAD ON IT?

Pakistan will guarantee that neither Pakistan, nor Taliban support anti-Indian millitants. Pakistan is a responsible member of international community and will ensure its soil is not used to plan/launch on third countries. Pakistan will and should make clear to Taliban openly not to support anti-Indian millitants.

MORE PAKISTANI RHETORIC. PAKISTAN WILL BAN GROUPS TO DISTANCE THEMSELVES, BUT STILL RETAIN LINKS FOR FUTURE USE. THESE GROUPS ALWAYS REEMERGE UNDER DIFFERENT NAMES IN THE ALPHABET OF TERRORISTS.

But in return India should normalize its relations with Pakistan.

WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY NORMALIZE ITS RELATIONS? ALL THIS TERRORISM, TALIBAN, MILITANTS IS COMING FROM YOUR END. EVEN THE SRI LANKAN TEAM WERE ATTACKED BY THOSE STATIONED IN PAKISTAN.

There was a time when the PMs of both respective countries were holding Peace Talks over Kashmir, then Mushy and his boys decide to start another war in Kargil? Sharif ran off to Bill Clinton to pressure India not to attack Pakistan. Next thing you know, Sharif has been thrown out by Mushy.

I am sorry Umair, but you are REALLY getting desperate here and reading your statement its as if you are the Mother Teresa spokesperson of the Taliban and are trying you hardest to paint them as rosy, friendly negotible people.

So, Pakistan groups (former, persent, banned…etc) attack India. Pakistan then tells India that if it does this or that; these groups will melt away. This is called blackmail! In other words, Pakistan is saying cede Jammu and Kashmir to us and we will not attack you any more. J&K is not yours to take and please do not bother to quote Zulfikur Bhutto on this matter.

Posted by bulletfish | Report as abusive

In response to comments about India and Pakistan, I was referring specifically to this paragraph in the NYT story about Pakistanis maintaining links with Islamist groups:

“They (Pakistani officials) said the contacts were less threatening than the American officials depicted and were part of a strategy to maintain influence in Afghanistan for the day when American forces would withdraw and leave what they fear could be a power vacuum to be filled by India, Pakistan’s archenemy.”

I addressed the rivalry between India and Pakistan in Afghanistan, and explained the background to it, in this analysis.
http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/i dUSTRE52M19C20090323?sp=true

My point is that Pakistan’s policy is driven by its perception that it is threatened by India. I know some of you will argue that Pakistan is wrong to believe it is threatened by India, but do you at least accept that the perception is there? From that you conclude, as have many analysts quoted on earlier posts on this blog, that the relationship between India and Pakistan is the primary driver in terms of Afghanistan. I’m happy to discuss this point-by-point.

Dara,

On your comment that the United States would take care of its own interests, and ignore those of India, do read this piece by Ashley Tellis at the Carnegie Institute, in which he argues that LeT is a threat globally and not just to India.
http://www.carnegieendowment.org/publica tions/index.cfm?fa=view&id=22676

Myra

Posted by Myra MacDonald | Report as abusive

Umair writes: “both India and Pakistan have strained relations and are competing for influence in Afghanistan. If Indo-Pak relations are normalized, Afghanistan will get on its own feet and become stable automatically.”

No matter how much you try to squeeze a meaning out of what Myra said, the truth remains the same – India has nothing to do with Afghan problem.

Afghanistan problem started in 1978 when Soviet troops marched into that country. Had they been left under the Soviets, probably the world will not be seeing what we see today. Many central asian republics under the Soviets have been thoroughly emasculated and these were the countries where the dreaded Tamarlane, and Mongol leaders emerged.

Coming to the topic, the US found a golden opportunity to avenge its defeat in Vietnam. Only they did not understand the culture of the region. They remained ignorant of the repercussions of their actions and fueled fundamental Islamic sentiments. They helped funnel money into the Madrasas that are infested in the entire area. With Stinger missiles, hostile territory, Pakistani military help and non stop irritation led to the bleeding of the Soviet Union. They left in 1989 unable to handle this region. And they broke down within two years.

The Americans left the region having settled their scores. And the various factions began to fight each other. Pakistan, under Benazir Bhutto, recognized the Taliban movement started by Mullah Omar. This organization was trained by Pakistan’s ISI and military. And they conquered most of Afghanistan. The US didn’t care even then. A Taliban delegation paid a visit to Houston to get 45 million dollar award for destroying Opium.

Chechnya, Dagestan, Kashmir erupted in unprecedented terrorist strikes. All was well with the US until the embassy bombings occurred. Yugoslavia was in flames and the US was busy there. Until Sept 11, 2001, the US did not care. Now we know the story.

Tell me where India was involved here. India, Pakistan relations have been strained since August 1947. This is not new. So why are the ignorant fishing in unnecessary waters? Why can’t they ask India for help instead?

Myra,
Thanks for getting back. Pakistan’s only problem are “inferiority complex”, “lack of judgment” and “lack of vision”. There is hardly any known medicine for these diseases. Sometimes the thief is scared by it’s own shadow. Ego will run only so far on empty stomach.

Who are India and Pakistan to make deals on future of Afghanistan? Afghanistan is a sovereign country and it is not for people of India and Pakistan to decide their fate. Only people of Afghanistan will decide their destiny, when given a secure environment and outsiders stop sending terrorists to Afghanistan. Only Afghans will pick their paertners.

India is building roads, hospitals, schools, police force, Ariana (Afghan Airlines) and donated USD1.5 billions for development. Pakistan didn’t allow biscuits for Afghan school children to pass through Pakistani territory and India had to construct a new highway through Iran to deliver biscuits to children. Afghan Government asked for World (and India’s) help in reconstruction and India is doing that. Sure, India will stop it’s activities when asked to do so by Afghan people or Afghan Government. Do you want India to stop these activities because Pakistan would like to see Afghanis live in caves or in stone age?

What has Pakistan built in Afghanistan? How much USD has Pakistan donated to development of Afghanistan? When asked to work for development of Afghanistan, Pakistan is sending killers and bombers to Afghanistan everyday. Pakistan government (ISI) is directly related to attacks on UN building, Indian Embassy, Afghan education, justice departments, Attacks of Afghan police officers, ministers and presidents. How can India collaborate with Pakistan and contribute to these activities? Where do you see a common ground? Pakistan is the unwelcomed, unwanted intruder in Afghanistan.

Sure, India will withdraw from Afghanistan when Pakistan donates USD 1.5 billion to the reconstruction of Afghanistan, Pakistan starts building schools, hospitals, roads, Parliaments and Pakistan stops killing Afghans everyday, When Afghans want India to exit!

‘Pak spy agency funnels cash to Afghan militants’ http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/art icle/ALeqM5gGRC69LGBx8MhSqSnT6PWcEWuG_Q

Afghan intel chief: Pakistan spies support Taliban
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/arti cle/ALeqM5hvWEqwq3CrRvaQCmt21MfoYhjZJQD9 75PNR02

Afghan envoy: Pakistan spy agency may have Taliban ties
http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/art icle/ALeqM5g0eUy_Im8EIsQdCLQYjQD5oua1YA

Tomorrow Pakistan will ask US/NATO to be out of Afghanistan for a peaceful Afghanistan!

Do you now see the fallacy in your logic?

Posted by David | Report as abusive

Mauryan wrote:
“No matter how much you try to squeeze a meaning out of what Myra said, the truth remains the same – India has nothing to do with Afghan problem.”

My friend, so is Pakistan responsible for the state in which Afghanistan is today? Did Pakistan ask the USSR Red Army to invade Afghanistan in 1979? did Pakistan ask the US and CIA to start Operation Cyclone? one of CIAs longest and most expensive covert operation to arm Mujahideen factions? did Pakistan ask those millions of Afghan refugees who fleed to Pakistan after the Soviet invasion? Is Pakistan responsible for rise and fall of Taliban or Northern alliance for that matter? Now certainly the US Embassy bombings in Kenya and Tanzania were got nothing to do with Pakistan.

My friend let me tell you, Pakistan suffered lot due the what happened in Afghanistan from 1979-1989, drugs, and AK-47s flooded Pakistan as a spill over effect.
Pakistan was acting as a buffer between India and Afghanistan. You Indians enjoyed progress and we were fighting the west’s wars. Now in the globalized world, that buffer exists no more, what happens in Afghanistan will have its consequences as far as India and beyond. We are not anyone’s sand digger, when ISI is accused of helping Taliban, it is only Pakistan playing its cards. We are only liable to take care of our own interests. Thats how it works, Us will take care of US interets, India will take care of its own interests.
So when CIA aided Mujahideen, whats wrong with ISI aiding Taliban? I mean I am just assuming for sake of argument, I am not implying that ISI is aiding Taliban.

India must get ready to face the consequences,
IPL is already moved out of India and guess what this is just the begining. You will see what happens in future, India cannot evade its responsibility in the region. This is globalized world and today what happens in one place has spill over effect on other.

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive

Myra,
“My point is that Pakistan’s policy is driven by its perception that it is threatened by India”

So your logic: Pakistan feels threatened by shadows so everybody please hide.

Posted by David | Report as abusive

A branded arms smuggler and drug dealer needs more space and everybody please vacate the town.

Posted by David | Report as abusive

The argument that a settlement of the Kashmir dispute would solve the Afghanistan problem is fundamentally flawed as it completely ignores the Pakistan-Afghanistan dispute over the Durand Line. Afghanistan has not officially recognized the current border and was the only country that opposed Pakistan’s admission to the U.N.

Therefore, it is imperative for Pakistani agencies to have a pliant regime in Kabul which would not raise this dispute (even if the need for ‘strategic depth’ against India disappear) again.

It is futile for the same reason to expect Pakistani security establishment to cooperate (as suggested by certain quarters)in the attempts to prop up Pakhtoon Nationalism as a counterfoil to the rigid Islamic identity of the Talibans.

Posted by bongatticus | Report as abusive

Myra,
It is insulting and humiliating to be compared to a Pakistan or stand next to a Paki in any subconscious way or format.

In future, if you need to find a country to compare to Pakistan or need any solution for Pakistan, please spare India. Please find Somalia or Zimbabawae or Aztecs for comparison to Pakistan. Sadly, we had a common past, and that is why we are in 6-7 pieces today. But we no longer share the present or the future. Looking at India won’t give you any solution.

India has terrorist and security problems. And only India can address and fix those problems (with help from US and UK). People in India only blame their Government for the security failures and no one else.

India’s bilateral relations with any country are strictly bilateral and there is no place in between for any third country or person.

There is nothing India can do for Pakistan other than wishing them “Good Luck and Have a Safe Trip”.

Posted by David | Report as abusive

Umair writes: “My friend, so is Pakistan responsible for the state in which Afghanistan is today?”

Yes. Pakistan has the world’s mightiest military right? When the Soviets invaded Afghanistan, they should have told the US to mind its own business (like they are trying to tell them now) and gone after the Soviets themselves. And you have the inseparable Chinese right? You two could have joined hands and taken enough precautions so that the Soviets did not invade Pakistan next. But your countrymen were licking their lips at that time. You did not like India intervening in East Pakistan’s genocide. But you went hand in hand with the Americans when Afghan refugees flooded your borders. So one rule for you and another for the other.

Tell me. Did India start the problem in Afghanistan? At what stage was India involved? India was never involved in the whole thing. So why is India being pulled into the problem your country and the US created? Go back and clean up your own mess. The fire was set by the Soviets and it was turned into a conflagration by the US and your country. Your participation in the whole thing was for future gains. Your only goal was to get at India and your leaders worked towards stockpiling arms and training provided by the CIA to use against India. So India comes into the picture only after the Soviets left Afghanistan. And India comes in because your country began to attack our country using insurgency. We will address only that aspect and we will do it in our own way.

“India must get ready to face the consequences”

Of what? What did we do and what consequences? What does it have to do with Afghanistan/Taliban issue? Aren’t guys screaming that Taliban is Pakistan’s internal matter? So where does India figure and what consequences are you talking about?

“IPL is already moved out of India and guess what this is just the begining. You will see what happens in future, India cannot evade its responsibility in the region. This is globalized world and today what happens in one place has spill over effect on other.”

So you are issuing a warning. This means that you, an ordinary citizen is fully supportive of terrorist activities inside India for no purpose. India has only the responsibility of rooting out terror bases inside your country. We are ready for that. Is your country ready for our help? We will take out the LeT, the LeJ, the ISI, the Taliban and let us know if there is anyone else. Then you can rest in peace.

This is a globalized world indeed. So if Pakistan does not shut down its terror machinery, there will be a global solution to it. Be rest assured. Very soon there will be a coalition including India and Afghanistan that will work with the Western powers to wipe out your terrorist infrastructure. In the bargain if you lose your nukes, scientists and even the country, do not regret it. It is your own attitude that has led to this state.

We are fully willing to mind our own business. But if you keep messing with us and calling it a global issue, we will make it a global issue in the true sense and you will pay for the repercussions.

Ummair Says:
“My friend, so is Pakistan responsible for the state in which Afghanistan is today?”

Resp: No, I think Argentina is responsible.

“Did Pakistan ask the US and CIA to start Operation Cyclone?”

Resp: No, US and CIA started operating in the Non-state areas of Pakistan without the knowledge of Pakistanis. Argentinians collaborated with CIA.

“Is Pakistan responsible for rise and fall of Taliban or Northern alliance for that matter?”

Resp: No, Argentina was training and arming the Talibans in the madrassas and was having friendly diplomatic relations with Talibans. All the Talibans are hiding in Argentina now. ISI exists in Argentina.

Posted by Outsider | Report as abusive

Myra,

1) Myra asked, “I know some of you will argue that Pakistan is wrong to believe it is threatened by India, but do you at least accept that the perception is there?”

- The perception in Pakistan is wrong but real. I’d argue that the perception is manufactured by the Pakistan army as an excuse to strengthen its grip on the levers of power in its country.

2) Myra says, “From that you conclude, as have many analysts quoted on earlier posts on this blog, that the relationship between India and Pakistan is the primary driver in terms of Afghanistan”

- Yes and No.

I say “Yes” because Indo-Pak relations are maligned owing to a manufactured threat by Pakistan army & its cohorts. There is less India can do to convince an entity which pretends to be asleep.

I also say “No” because mistrust between US-Russia and US-Iran too have a large bearing on the situation in Afghanistan.

Posted by Nikhil | Report as abusive

Umair,

Please stop clutching to the straws with your argument. The foundations of using terrorists under the name of religion to push political agenda were laid by the founding fathers of Pakistan. That strategy is being followed by subsequent rulers of Pakistan in Kashmir and Afghanistan at a great human cost. This has been confirmed by many scholars and historians of the region.

Posted by Nikhil | Report as abusive

Nikhil
Kashmir is a disputed territory between Pakistan and India, Kashmir is the reason of enmity between the two nations. Forget about the use of terrorists in the name of religion, Pakistan Army is deployed in Kashmir, Indian Army is deployed in Kashmir. Kashmir is a war zone without international border onlt the LOC or (ceasefire line) seperates the two parts of Kashmirs.
Nikhil, Kashmir is a dispute and there is always going to be fighting over Kashmir, you need to get it straight in your head. I dont know why its so difficult for you Indians to understand this. Probably you dont know that your claim over Kashmir is not recognized by pakistan.

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive

David wrote:
“It is insulting and humiliating to be compared to a Pakistan or stand next to a Paki in any subconscious way or format.

In future, if you need to find a country to compare to Pakistan or need any solution for Pakistan, please spare India. Please find Somalia or Zimbabawae or Aztecs for comparison to Pakistan.”

Your remark is racist and deplorable, you are an insult to India itself. How can you be so stupid David?
And there is a Somalia and Zimbabwe in every slum in India. The TB and AIDS, the povert and corruption, the misery of 25% of Indian population consisting of Dalit low caste hindus, India can surely be compared to Rwanda and Congo and Angola or Sub Saharan Africa. You must be ashamed of yourself David, Pakistanis still live a much better life standard.

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive

Umair,

The problem in Kashmir is a political one; not military. India understands it; Pakistan does not. Armed insurgents and violence in Kashmir have no role to play in reaching any solution. In fact, such dastardly act, with tacit support from the Pakistan army, delays the resolution to Kashmir.

Your accusation that India is not willing to solve Kashmir runs hollow. You may know India and Pak were close in resolving Kashmir few years ago through secret talks. But Musharraf did not know how to sell the solution to his people and wanted more time. He subsequently got engulfed in political crisis and lost office.

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive

Myra,

It’s a joke that the LeT continues to thrive four year after being banned by Musharraf. That shows the poor resolve to fight LeT or the complicity of Pakistani state. Not to mention that the LeT cadre largely consists of Pakistani Punjabis – not Kashmiris – fighting against the infidels.

I wonder if the US has enough appetite to take on the Al-Qaeda, the Taliban, LeT, JuD among others. If next month they miraculously find Osama Bin Laden, the US will wind up its Afghan operations; only to leave some CIA operatives behind to collect intelligence and safeguard American homeland.

Posted by Nikhil | Report as abusive

Umair,

Your accusation that India is not willing to solve Kashmir runs hollow. You may know India and Pak were close in resolving Kashmir few years ago through secret talks. But Musharraf did not know how to sell the solution to his people and wanted more time. He subsequently got engulfed in political crisis and lost office.

The problem in Kashmir is a political one; not military. India understands it; Pakistan does not. Armed insurgents and violence in Kashmir have no role to play in reaching any solution. In fact, such dastardly act, with tacit support from the Pakistan army, delays the resolution to Kashmir.

Posted by Nikhil | Report as abusive

Nikhil
It was not Musharraf, Musharraf stated to a Journalist in his recent visit to US that India was lacking the courage to take a pro-active and strong stance on the back channel talks. It was lack of courage on part of India, not Musharraf loosing power to his political opponents that caused the failure, many times India was slow to respond to Pakistani initiatives.
India surely knows the Kashmir problem is political one. The Hindu Maharaja forcibely ceded the Muslim majority state to India. The people of Kashmir do not accept Indian rule. The sooner Kashmir is resolved the better it is because the next Indo-Pak war will be nuclear. 1965 and 1971 would seem like picnic as to what is going to happen. Kashmir is the nuclear flash point.

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive

Umair,

Musharraf, when out of office, may say whatever he may like in front of journos in return for some limelight and moolah. The duplicity of Paki generals and politicians is well known. My suggestion, please read Steve Coll in NY magazine about the Indo-Pak talks and the reasons why they got stuck.

Similar to the disagreements of Baloch rebels in Pakistan, the Kashmiri separatists have grouse with their state. Sounds familiar? They are few in number and the majority of the population in the valley, ladakh, leh and jammu does not want Pakistan. They want peace and development without changing nationalities.

If you want to read the history of accession of Kashmir to India please read a non-Pakistani version. Don’t bark about nuclear war and nukes lightly like a kid who just got hands on a pistol. There is not going to be a nuke war over Kashmir. That is an old tactic Pakis use to induce fear in return for more money from the west.

Posted by Nikhil | Report as abusive

Umair writes: “The people of Kashmir do not accept Indian rule.”

How do you know that? Kashmir had an overwhelming turn out at the polls and Farooq Abdullah became the chief minister there. Since you are not familiar with democratic means, you will not recognize it. But we do not need your recognition any way. It hardly matters what Pakistan’s opinions on Indian matters are.

Kashmiris, left to themselves might want to be on their own. In fact, every ethnic, religious, linguistic community across the whole world would love to have a country on its own. The only people who keep harping about Kashmir are Pakistanis. That is the only thing that your establishment is using as a steroid injection in order to keep your country invigorated.

The problem is, your militant methods will not help. India has been holding on for more than two decades against your jihadist elements. It has enough money and resources to handle it for another hundred years. Your country and your jihadist parties cannot sustain that long a conflict. You are already on the brink of bankruptcy. Your country is living on alms thrown by the US, Saudi Arabia etc. So give up the obsession with Kashmir and move on. Just like you claim that Pakistan is a reality and asked me to move on, Kashmir’s current situation is a reality and learn to move on.

If and when peace returns, we can discuss about what Kashmiris are entitled to. Whatever chances they had was botched in 1947. A lot of things could have been done then. But it is too late. I always have my own opinions on Kashmir. But I would not compromise on my nation’s priorities. Today India needs complete solidarity of all its people and we will stand by it. The situation is grave. So my first response is to keep my opinions aside and stand behind my nation. Then during peaceful days, we can sit and argue on who was right and who was wrong.

Tell your Islamic brothers to wind up and go do something constructive. The more you try to burn us, the more you will burn. It is already showing.

Umair,

Bottom line, you should lobby your government to stop letting the LeT operate in Pak Kashmir. If Pakistan fails to deliver there will be terrible consequences if these Pak Army and ISI trained terrorists start to cross the LOC. There are forces in India who are just itching at the opportunity to settle the score with Pakistan in an extremely disproportionate way. Don’t let them get even, do the right thing and take a stand against terrorism in all its forms, state or non-state a like, do not differentiate between different types of terrorists.

The next time Pakistan allows or fuels the next Mumbai, the world will just think Pakistan is crying wolf and no-one will come to Pakistan’s rescue.

India will have every right to cross the LOC in retaliation only, turf those 50 camps, and return back to India. You can keep your country intact. What you are not willing to do, India may do itself.

Posted by Global Watcher | Report as abusive

Umair,

By the way, your Pak Army and ISI have to give up their dreams of grand conquest over India. This mental illness is driving Pakistan to the edge of the cliff and destroying its public image. Pakistan’s image, globally is at an all time low, most westerners do not respect or like anything about Pakistan. They all think the next 911 on American soil will come from Pakistan.

If that happens one more time, the U.S. WILL do a regime change on Rawalpindi and Islamabad, by force, just remember Iraq, if the U.S. is attacked by non-state actors, the U.S. will invade and they will not be negotiated with or begged, like Saddam and his sons did.
All three of them, look what happened.

Posted by Global Watcher | Report as abusive

An action movie is about to begin. Lets us grab pop corns, sodas and enjoy the movie.

“The administration now plans to send about 4,000 military trainers to Afghanistan — in addition to the recently announced 17,000 additional troops”

“The Pentagon also is considering a new U.S. military command in southern Afghanistan that would assume responsibility for the Americans troops deploying there. The area is currently commanded by European NATO generals, and a new U.S. command would signal increasing American control over the war effort”

“The new strategy is notable for the emphasis it places on Pakistan, which senior officials now see as critical to determining whether Afghanistan stabilizes or continues its downward spiral”

“The economic aid will be accompanied by additional American strikes on militant targets inside Pakistan. U.S. and Pakistani intelligence officials are currently drawing up a fresh list of terrorist targets for Predator drone strikes”

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB12381006 3254951371.html?mod=googlenews_wsj

Posted by Global Citizen | Report as abusive

Pakistani and Afghan Taliban Unify in Face of U.S. Influx

“The new Taliban alliance has raised concern in Afghanistan, where NATO generals warn that the conflict will worsen this year. It has also generated anxiety in Pakistan, where officials fear that a united Taliban will be more dangerous, even if focused on Afghanistan, and draw more attacks inside Pakistan from United States drone aircraft”

“This may bring some respite for us from militants’ attacks, but what it may entail in terms of national security could be far more serious,” said one senior Pakistani official

Mr. Haqqani, and his father Jalaluddin Haqqani, the most powerful figures in Waziristan, are closely linked to Al Qaeda and to Pakistani intelligence, American officials say. From their base in North Waziristan, they have directed groups of fighters into eastern Afghanistan and increasingly in complex attacks on the Afghan capital, Kabul.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/27/world/ asia/27taliban.html?_r=1

Posted by Global Citizen | Report as abusive

“The era of the blank check is over”

“President Obama plans to further bolster American forces in Afghanistan and for the first time set benchmarks for progress in fighting Al Qaeda and the Taliban there and in Pakistan”

“American officials have .. insisted that Pakistan do more to cut ties between parts of its government and the Taliban”

“Mr. Blair estimated that as much as three quarters of the Taliban’s rank and file in Afghanistan could be peeled away from the Taliban’s leadership, most of whom are hiding in sanctuaries across the border in Pakistan”

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/27/washin gton/27prexy.html?hp

Posted by Global Citizen | Report as abusive

Kashmiri Shia mourn India patriot

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/79 65451.stm

Posted by GLobal Citizen | Report as abusive

His strategy will try to draw together Afghanistan policy and Pakistan policy into a coherent whole

Officers at the Pentagon tell me they expect the total number of US and Nato troops deployed to hit 90,000 by the end of the summer

Mr Obama’s vision for Afghanistan implies an increase in commitment to be sustained indefinitely, an important distinction.

Formulating the Pakistan element of the strategy has been the hardest part, I am told. The Taleban and other insurgent groups, and al-Qaeda, continue to use Pakistani territory for their bases.

Until these sanctuaries are eliminated, and the recruiting of radicals curtailed, there would seem to be little hope for long-term stability in Afghanistan.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7967 002.stm

Posted by Global Citizen | Report as abusive

“Pakistan has been an ally to the war on terror only on Monday, Wednesday and Friday, but on Tuesday and Thursday there has been some work with the Taliban.”

The crux of the problem he asserts is that Pakistan lacks unified command and control over its own territory

http://www.voanews.com/english/NewsAnaly sis/2009-03-26-voa13.cfm

Posted by Globla Citizen | Report as abusive

Umair writes: “My friend let me tell you, Pakistan suffered lot due the what happened in Afghanistan from 1979-1989, drugs, and AK-47s flooded Pakistan as a spill over effect.”

Missed out on this one. Let me ask you this. When the Soviet Union invaded Afghanistan, there was one more country bordering Afghanistan. Refugees poured into Iran as well. Somehow, during the entire American led war against the Soviets, Iran remained out of it, despite being an Islamic neighbor. Just out of curiosity, how did Pakistan go for help from a kafir nation like the USA and not form an alliance with countries like Iran? I’d tell you the answer.

Drugs, AK-47s have been in Pakistan for a while. Soviet invasion did not bring that. Zia Ul Haq seized power at around the same time. He eyed the F16s, Stinger Missiles and state of the art training in sabotage, assassinations and running covert wars from the CIA, that the Americans were dangling in front of him. Imagine that. If he could allow the Americans to run their war for renting space in Pakistan, all the goodies that will be given could go for a worthy cause – bleed India to death. This was the grand plan that has led to today’s situation. You Pakistanis need to understand that India is not a weak nation. Your military commanders are living in a dream world. Even with nukes, it will be hard to take out India completely. But the vengeance against India that drew Pakistan into the act. The Americans got what they wanted and the Pakistanis got what they wanted. What both did not realize is that Afghanistan is like a bee hive. It got whacked with a club, first by the Soviets and then by the Americans. The bees got out and are stinging everyone ever since. Enjoy the honey.

“Pakistan was acting as a buffer between India and Afghanistan. You Indians enjoyed progress and we were fighting the west’s wars.”

Yeah right. As though India has a threat from Afghanistan. Soviets were never a threat to India. In fact, Soviets in Afghanistan would have done two things good for the region. It would have emasculated the Islamic mutant ninja turtles and modernized the nation in terms of women’s education, good roads and less dependency on opium. The Soviets had excellent athletic and sports culture and Afghanistan could have benefitted from that as well, like Kazakhstan or Uzbekistan. Secondly, the Soviets on the Western side and Indians on the Eastern side would have forced Pakistan to go the path of peace. You guys could have been contained easily and probably cricket would have survived at least.

But the Americans screwed up. Their policies are short sighted and very businesslike. They look at progress quarter by quarter and never in the long run. So they are paying the price now. And you are paying the price too for having jumped into the grave. The Americans will get out. But you will not.

Iran lucked out I’d say. They had already turned the Americans into their worst enemy. If the Shah Reza was in power, the US would never have cared about Pakistan. Your leaders looked at short term gains and lost out in the long run. Now you must reap what they sowed.

Buffer state my a*se!

“N. Korea defends right to ‘explore space’”

Good idea, when you run out of rice and food aid in your country, look at sky. May be there is some rice in ISS or moon.

When is Pakistan going to follow N Korea into space, looking for food? After all they are nuke Walmart buddies!

http://edition.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/asiapc f/03/26/north.korea.missile/?iref=mpstor yview

Posted by Outsider | Report as abusive

Myra writes: “My point is that Pakistan’s policy is driven by its perception that it is threatened by India. I know some of you will argue that Pakistan is wrong to believe it is threatened by India, but do you at least accept that the perception is there? ”

Every nation feels threatened by some other nation. India feels threatened by China. Pakistan feels threatened by India. Afghanistan feels threatened by Pakistan. Iran feels threatened by the US. Israel feels threatened by Iran. Arab nations feel threatened by Israel. The chain continues on. But this is no excuse to drag a nation into a conflict in which a country had no part from the beginning.

But I do agree with you that Pakistanis have the perception that India is about eat them alive. Their leaders have used this fear to unite their country and build up their military disproportionately. India explodes nuclear devices to counter Chinese threat. Pakistan does the same to achieve parity with India.

World powers like China, UK etc would like to keep India as backward as possible. So Pakistani fears help them achieve that end. China is using Pakistan’s paranoia to its advantage. Britain never liked freeing India and hated leaving the nation from under its grip. So they supported the formation of Pakistan, knowing well that the nation will be formed with this paranoia. What Pakistanis must realize is that India is a big country and has not been so threatening to its other small neighbors like Bangladesh, Nepal etc.. Nepal is a declared Hindu nation. Yet India never showed territorial expansionist ambitions on that land locked country. After liberating Bangladesh, India has not gone to war with that country or destabilize it with sabotage. In the case of Sri Lanka, the ethnic Tamil conflict never caused a direct war with that country. So Pakistan is the only small neighboring country that has been using the paranoia as an excuse to build itself up and trying to feed its superiority complex over the Hindus who make up most of India.

I’d say it is not fear of India as such, but the fear of a Hindu India becoming more successful and respected in the world for its power and progress that is bothering the Pakistanis. Hence their repeated attempts to derail India’s progress. Those who fear a bigger neighbor won’t boldly stage strikes into their territory. India would never dare venture into China and start supporting dissidents. The fear is real. India could have used Tibet as an excuse. In the case of Pakistan, the fear is an excuse. They are projecting it to keep their ego alive.

Myra says
“Does it not reinforce the argument that if you can get India and Pakistan right, then Afghanistan will take care of itself?”

I say
Myra, try your best to equate both India and Pak but you will fail miserably in this game :-)

Posted by Venkat | Report as abusive

Myra,

In response to my earlier comment you said, “On your comment that the United States would take care of its own interests, and ignore those of India,..”

Where have I said that? What I have said is “The US is right to look at the whole India-Pakistan-Kashmir issue through the narrow prism of its own security. Similarly India is equally right to look at the situation from its own security pov.”

In other words the US top priority is its own security while for India it will be India first. And that is only right from their own perspectives. It is, however, a far cry from saying that one ignores the interests of the other. I’m afraid that inference is off the mark.

Thank you for the Trellis report, which I am familiar with. To add to the Trellis testimony about the LeT being a global threat, Hafeez Saeed himself has also said (in an interview I read somewhere) that its not just about Kashmir. Kashmir and India are just the gateway to a larger pan Islamic world order. I would be interested to see how much of what Tellis said gets reflected in the Af-Pak policy review.

Myra, whenever the 26/11 events have been discussed, I notice you generally say that “whom India blames…” whether it be with reference to Pakistan itself or the LeT. Would really appreciate to hear what you think about these allegations? Do you agree with the Indian contention or accept that it is likely or do you disagree with them? In case you have already discussed this issue elsewhere would you please point me towards it? Thanks.

Dara

Venkat, you wrote:

“Myra, try your best to equate both India and Pak but you will fail miserably in this game.”

Did I say I was trying to equate India and Pakistan? The U.S. administration believes that reducing tensions between India and Pakistan is fundamental to its Af/Pak strategy. Please see the following in an article in Politico on Holbrooke:

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/030 9/20531.html

“He is convinced that one of the answers to getting Pakistan to devote more attention to the militant threat it faces is to reduce tensions between Pakistan and India, officials say. If that could happen, Pakistan could move more of its troops into the tribal areas and border regions where much of the militant threat exists.

“But Holbrooke has also not figured out yet whether he can be successful in reducing India-Pakistan tensions, the officials say. India has long resisted involving outside mediators and Holbrooke has no intention of getting involved in trying to force resolution of long-running disputes, like the Kashmir issue.
“The joke around the department is that ‘Holbrooke doesn’t do India until he does India,’” said one official.”

(I’m not quite sure what the final line means about the joke going around the department.)

If you think the U.S. administration’s view is wrong, please say why. But don’t attack the messenger for reporting it.

Myra

Posted by Myra MacDonald | Report as abusive

US is paying for it’s deeds done to oust USSR from Afghanistan with support of Pakistan. The realty is it can’t dump it’s old ally Pakistan and has to deal with babies like Taliban, fostered by US and Pakistan to oust USSR and promote parent’s interests, who have grown up. The “Baby” now wants power to govern and “Parents” of “Baby” are worried as “Baby” wields power which can harm parents. Pakistan and US are trapped in a vicious circle of Terror created by themselves and are looking at other means of escape like Kashmir. Kashmir is not a issue similar to Israel but issue raked upon to divert attention from realty. US and Pakistan should read one old adage that God Helps Those Who Help Themselves. Instead of trying to help India solve her problems they should take care of their “Grown up Baby”. What if quality education was not provided at tender age, there is still time to learn… Go for adult education :-)

Posted by Rohit | Report as abusive

Pakistan mosque attack kills 48 (BBC news)

This was a suicide bombing that has just recently happened near the Khyber pass. The mosque has been completely destroyed. The death toll is higher than 48.

-So, are the Taliban or any of the other groups from the Alphabet soup worth talking to?

Before this attack there was another suicide bombing inside a restaurant near Peshawar. That place was destroyed. Another Pakistani business ruined.

-Maybe the food was bad and the bomber was a customer making his complaint very loud and clear.

-Maybe these are practice runs for when 17,000 US troops arrive in Afghanistan, you know? Get as many people angry and use their grievances against the American in Afghanistan so all their anger is channeled towards killing US troops. There will always be a radical iman jumping at this opportunitiy and yelling at the top of his voice that this was attack is Amreeka’s fault and the Devil Dogs should be shot to Hell!

I just hop that Zardari does not expoit this attack to get more military aid from the Friends Of Pakistan meeting. He and the Pak govt have not done anything worthy since the first FoP meeting to deserve more aid. They have not used what they were given to root out terrorists.

The protests and Long March cost Pakistan 10 BILLION Pak rupees. Now, the Pak govt want $10 billion!

Posted by bulletfish | Report as abusive

Myra

Thanks for your clarification. I am not used to shooting the messenger but I always aim at the ideology that the messengers clandestinely perpetuate.

US Admin desperately tries to bring back India-Pak hypenation. Holbrooke tried and he miserably failed to try to bring Kashmir into his table. Who the heck called him for resolution of dispute? Only if BOTH the parties invite external moderators, they should come in. Obtrusive self-proclaimed pseudo-democrats should meddle in affairs of weak or failed nations but not non-aligned, powerful countries.

Reuters and other media houses try to generate public opinion by furthering the views of their masters [or those who pay them] and so I am not surprised if there is some hidden objective in your [I mean Reuters'] articles and opinions.

Af-Pak is America’s headache and there is NOTHING in it for India, except for humanitarian nation-building efforts in Afghanistan. Let US deal with the monster CIA created for fighting Russia. It is Pakistan which PERCEIVES India as a threat and not vice-versa and hence it’s Pakistan that needs steroids [or poison]. India is NEVER in the picture of Af-Pak instability which is US’ creation.

Thanks

Posted by Venkat | Report as abusive

A self-destrutive community will collapse on its own legs:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_a sia/7967594.stm

Posted by Jerry | Report as abusive

Jerry,
It is a sad event. So many precious lives lost without any fault of their. These people died because they didn’t support Taliban.

Why hate or penalizeize the whole community for the acts of a few?

It is good opportunity for Pakistan government to reach these people and support their movement against Taliban. It is just the beginning.

Posted by David | Report as abusive

Global watcher wrote:
“There are forces in India who are just itching at the opportunity to settle the score with Pakistan in an extremely disproportionate way.”

Disproportionate? My friend Pakistan armed forces are fully capable of responding to any Indian attack “with-in minutes”. Israel uses disproportionate force against Palestinians because they are unfortunately weak. Pakistan on the other hand is a 170 million strong muslim nation, armed with nuclear weapons ballistic & cruise missiles and the worlds 7th largest and professional military armed with sophisticated weapons systems. Just remember any amount of force used by India will be responded by equally proportionate amount of force by Pakistan.
Your chest thumping is laughable, if forces in India are itching to cross the LOC in Kashmir, Pakistan Army is also waiting to roast them with fingers on their triggers and eyes vigilant.

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive

India trying to find space for ‘conventional war’: Pak
BUSINESS RECORDER MARCH 27, 2009

ISLAMABAD (updated on: March 27, 2009, 18:09 PST): Pakistan says that the armed forces differential between it and India had widened which had resulted in New Delhi trying to ‘find space for a conventional war’.

In unusual comments at the National Defence University, the Prime Minister, Yousuf Raza Gilani said “when seen with the widening force differential between ours and Indian Armed Forces, it explains to us the emboldened posture and her urge, to find sp ace for a conventional war.”

Gilani also highlighted the complex security scenario in the country saying “all of you know that we have been preparing for an external threat all these years. Our internal threat has been evolving beyond our comprehension and has weakened us conside rably.”

“History tells us that a weak inner front always tends to invite external aggression,” he said in his address to participants yesterday.

Gilani also said Pakistan had “no aggressive designs against any country” but would counter any threat to its territorial integrity and sovereignty “with full force”.

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive

Umair,

Gilani and his remarks are a symptom of a mass delusion of the India-threat that Pakis suffer. Please etch in your mind that Pakistan offers an unparalleled nuisance value and India has no interest in attacking Pakistan. It’s like kicking a beehive.

Gilani is playing to the tune of the piper; the Pak army. We know that the Paki army is not trained to fight insurgency but the thought to retaliate India boosts the ego of a bruised force. What else can he say when the Pak army is getting roasted at the hands of the terrorists, the ISI is under attack for being a notorious state within a state, the US snubs the Paki army with drone attacks and bribes the govt to keep silent and the world looks at Pak as an international migrane.

Posted by Nikhil | Report as abusive

Nikhil wrote:
” the US snubs the Paki army with drone attacks and bribes the govt to keep silent and the world looks at Pak as an international migrane.”

During 2001-02 border stand-off PAF F-16s shot down an Israeli made Indian drone on the eastern border with India. PAF chief is on record stating Pakistan is capable of shooting down intruding drones. Do you think these drone srtikes happen without consent of Services chiefs or the government?
For the world, ISI is a rougue state within a state, for Pakistan it is a formidable spy service and a first line of defenc eon the face of external threats to national security. India would love to attack Pakistan showing its bad behavior, its pakistan’s viligant posture that humbles India. Remember after Indian nuclear tests George Fernandes and L.K Advani stating to teach a lesson to Pakistan, what happened on 28 May 1998 the world saw it and you know it, I dont need to repeat.
India remains a considerable external threat to Pakistan and Pakistan needs to maintain minimum credible detterence against India.

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive

Myra
“If you think the U.S. administration’s view is wrong, please say why. But don’t attack the messenger for reporting it.”

Myra

—Let’s hypothetically assume that the ‘U.S. administration’s view is right’ & Holbrooke ‘does’ India, i.e. snatches Kashmir from India & gifts it on a platter to dear friend Pakistan, then according to you what would be the logical conclusion?

—Is this the message by the ‘enlightened one’s’ from white hall & foggy bottom?

- Osama, Gulbuddin Hemaktyar, Baitullah Mehsud, Omar, Haqquani et al are all praise of the US & offer to surrender themselves to America. Since Kashmir which was their central issue & having been ‘resolved’, The Taliban & Al-Queda shall show their gratitude by laying down their arms & the NATO forces return home triumphant having won the ‘war on terror’, by making friends of their foes.
OR
- Pakistan hunts down Osama & presents him to Holbrooke as a return gift, launches a massive attack on the Taliban & sanitizes the SWAT valley, pushing them into Afghanistan where the NATO forces will conveniently defeat them, bringing them down on their knees. The insurgency is crushed & all’s well in AF-PAK.
( Wonder what’s stopping them from doing that even now? -Does someone has any stastics regarding the size of the Pakistani Army / the number of Al-Queda, Taliban & other jehadi’s active in the SWAT area / the approx. size of the area in sq.km’s, where the jihadi’s are concentrated?)

Posted by anup | Report as abusive

Anup, you wrote:

“Let’s hypothetically assume that the ‘U.S. administration’s view is right’ & Holbrooke ‘does’ India, i.e. snatches Kashmir from India & gifts it on a platter to dear friend Pakistan, then according to you what would be the logical conclusion?”

Are you not jumping a lot of steps? There has to be a big grey area between improving relations between India and Pakistan and what you call gifting Kashmir on a platter, no?

Myra

Posted by Myra MacDonald | Report as abusive

@Umair,

It is none of your business if India’s defence is beyond parity with.

Secondly, you need not worry India crossing the LOC, it won’t happen unless your proxy armies are crossing it or unless Pakistan crosses the line of control. Therefore the fate of Pakistan lies in Pakistan’s own hands. India will not start the fight. If Pakistan starts it, India will finish it. India has nukes and ballistic missiles and twice the army and much better more high tech equipment and most of all a very angry population, ready to support its army, if India is wronged first.

There is no chest thumping that is the reality here my friend. We can help Pakistani’s by ridding them of their parasitic army. Just remember, as long as you guys do no terrorism, or cross the loc, you are ok. Sleep tight, enjoy the Lahori fish kebabs and chappli kebabs, those proxy armies, if unleashed on india one more time, will bring something much worse than 1971.

Posted by Global watcher | Report as abusive

Umair,

The stories of Paki army valor and capability is for domestic consumption only. We’ve seen the valor of your army in Swat, FATA and NWFP. No one cares what the Paki army chief said because it does not carry weightage outside Rawalpindi. The ISI’s notoriety is printed by Paki scholars themselves. The ISI is like a pit-bull; it may protect you but it does not hesitate to eat your child when hungry.

As you claim, if India remains an external threat to India how can Pakistan ever have peace with its neighbors? Everything else follows from there.

Posted by Nikhil | Report as abusive

Myra,

You’ve been blogging about the Indo-Pak region for some time now. I’ve a question for you; According to you, what is the resolution to the problem in Kashmir?

Posted by Nikhil | Report as abusive

Myra

“There has to be a big grey area between improving relations between India and Pakistan…”

— Then wouldn’t it be futile to indulge in swimming in this grey area & loosing focus on the job at hand? What if it turns out to be a Himalayan blunder that would jeopardize the whole AF_PAK NATO operation?
My point is what relevance does Indo-Pak relations got to do with the operations in Afghanistan, isn’t the mission supposedly meant to eliminate Al-Queda which threatens to cause harm to the western countries, isn’t the new found strategy to mollify the Taliban got to do with neutralizing the punishment meted out to them by dislodging their rule in Afghanistan & securing a promise from them not to retaliate for the same in future.
The Pakistani Army has more than a hundred thousand efficient troops in the inflicted area, twice more than what’s needed to crush the militants, they are a highly professional & competent force, the ISI intelligence network in the region is excellent & influential also, neither are the Jehadi groups in the AF-PAK related to the Kashmir issue nor do they have their presence on the western side of the Pak borders, the one’s like the LET are irrelevant to the Afghan insurgency,as it is, the west turns a blind eye towards them.
Raising the Kashmir issue is turning out to be a fad with the western intelligentsia, as if it’s the panacea that would resolve all the ills on earth.

Posted by anup | Report as abusive

Nikhil, you know it’s not my role to have an opinion about how to resolve Kashmir. So I’ll try to answer your question by limiting myself to the facts, and no doubt you, or others, will tell me if you think it strays into the realm of opinion.

1) As discussed on this post, anyone who wants to comment on the UN Resolutions on Kashmir should read what these resolutions actually say:

http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2008/1 2/10/pakistan-india-and-the-united-natio ns/

2) The Kashmir question is complicated, since it involves not just the Kashmir valley but all the other parts of the former kingdom of Jammu and Kashmir; there are also historical issues which pre-date partition

3) The problems between India and Pakistan go beyond Kashmir. For example, the Siachen war, when it started in 1984, had nothing to do with Kashmir. On this I claim authority, having written a book about Siachen which you can see reviewed here:

http://www.hindustantimes.com/StoryPage/ StoryPage.aspx?id=525103c3-8084-40ec-871 9-7fe2edb686ab

4) Thousands of ordinary people have died in Kashmir as a result of the dispute.

Again, please feel free to take this apart point by point.

Anup,

Does this answer your point? I hope you are not accusing me of being part of the western intelligentsia which sees Kashmir as a fad?

Myra

Posted by Myra MacDonald | Report as abusive

Anup wrote:
“The Pakistani Army has more than a hundred thousand efficient troops in the inflicted area, twice more than what’s needed to crush the militants, they are a highly professional & competent force, the ISI intelligence network in the region is excellent & influential also,”

Anup just today President Obama said that US is loosing the war in Afghanistan and 2008 has been the deadliest year for American troops. 8 long years, the worlds most sophisticated and equipped US Army, billions of dollars worth equipment, all the resources and still the US is loosing in Afghanistan.

So what do you expect Pakistan Army to do? there are termendous restraints, shortage of resources, the highest number of casualties 8500. Do you still think Pakistan’s resolve is weak?

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive

There can not be any lasting normalization of relations with Pakistan until Pakistan ends terrorism emanating from its territory. Kashmir or no Kashmir, Terrorism is no way to resolve issues.

After 26/11 Indian populace is in no mood to forgive and forget. Already many political heads have rolled. If, god forbid, LeT attacks one more city, Indian govt will either have to put their head on the block or roll heads in Pakistan.

Posted by chirkut | Report as abusive

Umair,

Your “Highly professional and competent” army brought down an remotely operated unmanned drone using two F-16. No wonder your pack is abjectly surrendering to Taliban under the guise of peace treaty.

Here are two reads on Pak’s N program
http://cns.miis.edu/research/india/china  /npakpos.htm
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news  /2158235/posts

If Pakistan is an international migraine than china is a parasite causing that migraine.

Posted by chirkut | Report as abusive

Myra,

Let me ask you this question, since you are a Westerner? Is the US trying to link India to the situation just to appease the Pakistanis so that some gains can be made? Anything anti-India pleases the Pakistanis. I wonder why India-Pakistan friction, which has been there ever since the two countries were formed, suddenly becomes and important issue to settle Afghanistan problem. I just do not see any connection. We know India and Pakistan have issues. We know Afghanistan problem is serious. But how does solving India-Pakistan problem will help in resolving Afghanistan issue? There is a lot more between Indians and Pakistanis than just Kashmir. It is very deep seated and it cannot be eliminated. It is like the Serbs and Bosnians. Mutual hatred spans over centuries of past history. It cannot be resolved by anyone. Even if there are sensible people on both sides, they will never be allowed to. That is why Pakistan is desperately trying to bring India down. Pakistan wants tiny little neighbors around itself. For this it needs to cut India down into small nations. Indians in general have learned to live with Pakistan’s separation. But their actions now are forcing Indians to believe that may be Pakistan as a nation is a major threat to peace and progress in India. So there is enough desire to cut up Pakistan into small nations. In this situation, how does the US believe that it can resolve the feelings between these two people? It has not even resolved any issue in Iraq or Afghanistan over the past 8 years.

Myra,

First, let me congratulate you on visiting Siachen and publishing an interesting book about it. It’s going to be one of my books to read in near future.

Now, regarding Kashmir. Kashmir is traditionally viewed from the prism of nationalism, ideology and self-determination. Consequently, each one has proved to be an impediment to the resolution. In the peace process, the stand taken by India is positive & encouraging; it’ll accept any arrangement that does not include secession and re-drawing the present map while keeping the borders soft and porous. The LoC should become international border and with time, the borders may become irrelevant. I’d not be too worried about the history of Kashmir that pre-dates 1947. In India, every place has a long history and it’s difficult to reconcile the contradictions of historical facts based the time period one chooses to look.

The notion of creating a sovereign state and forging a pan-Kashmiri identity is also a pipe dream. There is no political leadership with a uniform vision in Srinagar, Muzzafarabad or any other corner of the state. The local politics in the old kingdom of J&K is messy & fragmented. For instance, the separatists in the valley are a minority and they are check-mated by the people living in Jammu, Ladakh and Leh. The politicians in Pak Occupied Kashmir do not see eye to eye to the politicians in Northern areas. Not to mention a land-locked state cannot stay neutral from the unsavory influences of India, China and Pakistan.

The ground realities make the Kashmir peace process slow. Also, the ugly head of cross-border terrorism emanating from Pakistan delays the peace process. Given the facts & contemporary realities, no US administration can force or speed a resolution in Kashmir; in fact it’ll make things worse.

In conclusion, Kashmir can be solved through talks by India, Pakistan and Kashmiris. The terrorist agenda with the tacit support of Pak army slows the peace process down. The Kashmir issue is irrelevant to the war on terror on the Afghan-Pak border.

Posted by Nikhil | Report as abusive

Anup,

The courtesy of the new fad of raising the Kashmir issue with the western intelligentsia goes to Mr. Ahmed Rashid, the Pakistani author of the book, “Descent in to Chaos”. Mr. Rashid, who lives in the US, had teamed up with the Obama campaign as a South Asian scholar helping to redefine the war on terror in Afghanistan. Following Mr. Rashid’s advice, the Obama administration has chosen to adopt a regional approach to the quagmire on the Afghan-Pak border and include Kashmir in to the discussion.

Posted by Nikhil | Report as abusive

Mauryan wrote:
“Let me ask you this question, since you are a Westerner? Is the US trying to link India to the situation just to appease the Pakistanis so that some gains can be made?”

Hey Mauryan dont ask stupid questions, though you have asked Myra but I want to answer you. Look son, US has relations with other countries on its merit, the US-India relationship doesnt affect Pakistan and the US-Pakistan relationship doesnt affect India. In international relations policies are formulated and countries forge alliances to further their interests and secure strategic gains.
Get into some reading habits, do your research and study. Watch, read and learn. So far I have seen your ability in Pakistan bashing, now would you please start learning and analyzing before you open your mouth and start asking stupid questions? nutcase!

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive

Nikhil wrote:
” The Kashmir issue is irrelevant to the war on terror on the Afghan-Pak border”

Nikhil, it maybe, but the Kashmir issue is pretty relevant to the Indo-Pak war on the Indo-Pak border. I mean arent the two countries in a defacto state of war?1948, 1965, 1971, 1988 brasstacks & Zarb-e-Momin, Siachin, Runn Kutch, Kargil, 2001-02, Mumbai 08 and still counting..

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive

Umair,

Please read my comments before you respond to it. Do you read what people write? Or, you just keep on ranting from one blog to other, picking one line from here and there.

Posted by Nikhil | Report as abusive

Umair… Pakistan is a failed state in all respects… Keep counting wars with India including the latest one and dwell in castles in air as Pakistan runs towards self destruction fostering illegitimate babies.

Posted by Rohit | Report as abusive

Myra, I hope that the title is a bit misleading as you are not reporting what Lashkar said. By starting from the threat issued by Lashkar, you are coming around to US and it’s problems. Correct me anywhere if I am wrong… US became a world leader by chance in the period what is termed as 2nd World War. Till date US and it’s citizens have not been able to determine whether they want to seriously play the role of world leader or not. US has pursued myopic policies of success and always landed in trouble be it Vietnam or Cuba or Iraq or Afghanistan (To Summarize 100% Failure). The problem with US is not its intent… It wants to spread democracy which is good… The problem is myopic view. US forgets that Rome was not built in a day… Obama has set a deadline for himself to solve Afghanistan/ Iraq problem… Too optimistic a deadline… If he had set a deadline to achieve one of the milestones towards solution to the problem, it would have been justified. Let’s wait and watch as Obama further takes Iraq, Afghanistan into abyss.

Posted by Rohit | Report as abusive

Umair

“So what do you expect Pakistan Army to do?”
—Ask any high ranking personnel in the Pak Army to give a sincere reply to your query & I bet his response would be max. 90-120 days to successfully plan & execute an operation to exorcise terrorists & dismantle their network.within a year the whole SWAT valley would be completely sanitized.

Posted by Anup | Report as abusive

Umair,
All the wars and years you listed has been to Pakistan’s disadvantage and it has always come out with a hell of a lot more losses than gains.

If you want to rant them watch Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto-Security Council Speech (15th Dec 1971) on You Tube. A loser in more ways than one.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYHUJBRRn c4

Any further attacks on India stemming from Pakistan will have grave consequences, but that is what you want, isn’t it? To use your NON-STATE ACTORS to attack India and a split second later run off to the USA to tell tham that India is being too aggressive and you will attack and claim it was in self-defence of your sovereignty.

Posted by bulletfish | Report as abusive

Myra
“Again, please feel free to take this apart point by point.”

—Rather you can keep on adding to the list eternally – Junagadh / Hyderabad etc. etc., the Kashmir predicament is merely symbolic, the moot point is how bonafide is the Islamic State of Pakistan itself.

Posted by anup | Report as abusive

both india and pakistan need to get out of kashmir and leave it alone. India wants to claim kashmir, yet there is a majority muslim population there. India is having its own trouble with muslim hating extremist parties like the BJP, so why should more muslims be added to the population for the BJP to attack and kill? pakistan should stay out of kashmir because it is become a mini-saudi state full of wahabbis who are using islam to create havoc and chaos. pakistan chooses to ignore the killings of its minority shias, suffis, ahmedis so it does not deserve to add muslim population that normally rejects its wahabbi extremist, pro-taliban attitude. kashmir is better of being free of the dirty filthy hands of india and pakistan.

Posted by hassan | Report as abusive

Umair vomits again: “Mauryan dont ask stupid questions”

Umair,

Make it a habit not to get tangled when people are discussing seriously. Your contributions only provide the comedy element in these blogs and no one takes you seriously. You have been grinding the same flour no matter what the topic is – we are 176 million people, with nuclear weapons etc.. Ask your Jihadist machinery to teach you some other line to repeat. Then come back here. Time for Madrasa training for 2009. Go back and ask your mullah master to teach you a new line. Comics need to come up with new jokes. Otherwise no one will laugh. Ok? Good. Now go on.

Nikhil
“Descent in to Chaos”. Mr. Rashid,

—Pakistani’s, over the years have mastered the art of ‘western adulation’, & successfully manipulated Washington, to summarize the POA, first step, extolling them as the supreme champion’s of humanity, then very cunningly censure them in a manner whereby exercising caution not to offend their sensibility but at the same time making them feel guilty for their own sorry state of affairs by craftily appealing to their quirky brand of western morality, in which they perceive themselves, America in particular, as the sole authority for meting out justice on earth.
All this they do out of their compulsion of ‘Indian Paranoia’, Mr. Rashid ought to be no different; this formula has always given them handsome desired results.
With China they go down on all fours.
The US of A is playing a 3-D video game in this region & to sustain the game & up the ante for higher stakes, India is a target & Kashmir the bait, we must tread carefully & act prudently, vigilant enough so as not to be snared in their vicious game & also become prey to their trigger happy – oops- nowadays button happy fingers.

Posted by Anup | Report as abusive

UMAIR said:

“Nikhil, it maybe, but the Kashmir issue is pretty relevant to the Indo-Pak war on the Indo-Pak border. I mean arent the two countries in a defacto state of war?1948, 1965, 1971, 1988 brasstacks & Zarb-e-Momin, Siachin, Runn Kutch, Kargil, 2001-02, Mumbai 08 and still counting..”

Response:

Umair, the next time Pakistan crosses the line of control, India’s government, which ever it may be at the time, the left, center or right, it does not matter, there will be huge amounts of pressure for India to reciprocate to reinforce its integrity because the people want a sense of security, after MUMBAI.

The next proxy army incursion, or Pak Army incursion, will lead to disaster for Pakistan. Pakistani’s around the world will see their country once again surrender. This time, the Pak Generals will be signing the surrender on their own soil. Yes I know it will not be that simple, just remember there is 1.2 billion people. You don’t have enough bullets, cruise missiles, or nukes to finish us.

Even after all the weapons are used up, you can expect a human wave of 500 million Indians with a desire for final justice. Your Lakvhi’s, Daewoods, Haqqani’s will become irrelevant as they will be torn apart by bare hands limb from limb.

This is one factor of the equation which nobody has considered. If Pakistan decides to wipe all 1.2 billion humans off India, those intentions will be clear and will be there for history to see and in that moment Pakistan will also seal its own death as well. That will be a dark day for Islam itself.

Please behave, do not bring terrorism upon us. End the sick lust to reaffirm Islam over all of India, end the propaganda and hate against India. Pakistan will only survive by giving up its hate and antagonism for India.

The population of India will not stand for another Mumbai as it will radicalize India. In a call for security in India, a radicalized India, wanting justice will decapitate Pakistan due to the immense pressure of the votership of its ciitzens.

Posted by Global Watcher | Report as abusive

Hassan writes: “both india and pakistan need to get out of kashmir and leave it alone.”

Now is not the time. The world is facing a very grave situation right now. Every country is looking at its own self interest. May be when peace returns eventually, this topic can be brought to the lime light. Wait until Pakistan turns into five small nations. Then at least you don’t have to worry about Pakistani threat and nightmares of their Taliban patrolling the streets. Wait. It is only a matter of time. You have waited for 60 odd years. The time will come. Without the decimation of Pakistan into smaller countries, Kashmir issue cannot be brought up. All Pashtun and Pakistani militants have to be cleared out of Kashmir first and peace has to prevail for at least a decade for people to see what is best for them. By then who knows, every small nation would want to be a part of a grand Indian economic union much like that in Europe.

“grand economic union”, lol. what a joke, that must be the funniest thing i’ve ever heard. just because you have a bunch of call centers opening up in every corner of india, and you have the world’s biggest micro maching in the nano, you also still have the largest population in the world, where majority of the people are amongst the world’s poorest. aids is still and on going problem, and you won’t be able to provide enough energy, food, or medical care to help solve the poverty issue. pakistan may vey well break into little pieces, which may end up being the best thing for the innocent people caught up in the mess of the worthless pakistani goverment, the whinny indian government,the wacko taliban, and the useless american goverment.

Posted by hassan | Report as abusive

“Umair, the next time Pakistan crosses the line of control, India’s government, which ever it may be at the time, the left, center or right, it does not matter, there will be huge amounts of pressure for India to reciprocate to reinforce its integrity because the people want a sense of security, after MUMBAI.”
- Global Watcher

I really hope this pressure translates into instant action the next time. If any terrorist activity occurs during the course of elections, it would be too difficult for Congress to play restraint(unfortunately we Indians use this term too often) this time.

Posted by Aaruni Upadhyay | Report as abusive

hassan
“worthless pakistani goverment, the whinny indian government,the wacko taliban, and the useless american goverment.”

—-& the impotent Hurriyat…

Posted by anup | Report as abusive

Hassan writes: ““grand economic union”, lol. what a joke, that must be the funniest thing i’ve ever heard. just because you have a bunch of call centers opening up in every corner of india, and you have the world’s biggest micro maching in the nano, you also still have the largest population in the world, where majority of the people are amongst the world’s poorest. aids is still and on going problem, and you won’t be able to provide enough energy, food, or medical care to help solve the poverty issue.”

Interesting. Every Pakistani writes the same thing about India – You are poor, there is AIDS, there is poverty etc when they run out of ideas.

We already are aware of our problems. A nation of 1 billion people cannot leap frog to a level of prosperity over night. We are slowly working towards that direction. It might take us another 50 to 100 years to get there. And we are not ashamed of it. When the British left India, they left us with nothing. From there, we have slowly progressed and the odds have been against us. And we are proud of our call centers, the Nano, the educational institutions, centers of research, green revolution and so on. We are not competing with any country in this regard. We know we should get to a better level in life and it takes years of persistent effort. So laugh as much as you can while your country starts sinking below the ground level. Your opinions about our country will not affect us in anyway. What affects us is your country’s unceasing disruptive activities against our progress, Mumbai attacks being the latest. Your country should realize that you can never wrest Kashmir by force from our nation, whether by insurgency or otherwise. I have my own opinion on Kashmir as a free citizen of India and have argued with my fellow countrymen on that. But considering today’s situation, I will not bring that up for now and allow things to settle down. Like you said, the innocent people of your country are better off with your nation split into smaller nations. Good luck.

All,

The arguments on this post are getting rather loud. Do look at this survey on All Things Pakistan about who its readers consider the greatest threat. It’s a small sample and as ATP says, a self-selecting group, but worth looking at. Only three percent of those polled say they consider India the biggest threat. The biggest threat is seen as coming from religious extremism and violence.

http://pakistaniat.com/2009/03/28/poll-p akistan-threats/

Myra

Posted by Myra MacDonald | Report as abusive

Hassan,

You said, “kashmir is better of being free of the dirty filthy hands of india and pakistan.”

- Yeah right, that would help turn J&K in to a NEFP -North Eastern Frontier Province.
Fyi, no local community or local political party in the old kingdom of J&K sees eye to eye regarding the future of the state. Everyone there either jockeys for power or is fearful of the other. An independent J&K is a pipe dream.

Posted by Nikhil | Report as abusive

Myra said:

“All,

The arguments on this post are getting rather loud. Do look at this survey on All Things Pakistan about who its readers consider the greatest threat. It’s a small sample and as ATP says, a self-selecting group, but worth looking at. Only three percent of those polled say they consider India the biggest threat. The biggest threat is seen as coming from religious extremism and violence.

http://pakistaniat.com/2009/03/28/poll-p akistan-threats/

Myra”

Myra, it seems that the top three problems are the worst, the Extremists, the Politicians and Incompetant Goverment. While it maybe true that Pakitani’s don’t view India as a threat as much one thinks, it is true, that they Pakistani’s favour using any means against India to retain parity at all levels. The progress within India is not building fear in the average Paks, but jealousy, and that jealousy is going to fuel more Mumbai’s against India’s progress.

It is those same average Pakistani citizen so called moderates that do little or nothing to courageously confront Islamic Extremism head-on. They seem much more interested in cricket. The war on extremist Islam will not be fought with weapons, but within the hearts and minds of moderates themselves. Right now, they are complicit, static and doing absolutely nothing to fight it. It seems the rest of the world has to do all the fighting on behalf of the moderates in Islam, because they lack the courage to fight backwardsness, or they quietly sympathize or a combination of both. The mob goes silent, no one is willing to be like a Gandhi and standup against backwardness, beheadings. We need a mass awakening in Pakistan of average Pakistani’s. This is their fight.

Posted by Global Watcher | Report as abusive

Myra,

The survey in the blog is non-scientific and it polls a self-selecting group. You are not suggesting us to believe that this signals changes on the ground, are you?

We know results from such surveys are too fickle. Taliban killings and communal riots presently make big headlines in Pakistan. So, they figure highly. If you would’ve taken similar survey immediately after Mumbai or Lahore attacks the results would’ve been different.

Posted by Nikhil | Report as abusive

i think Umair is a few different people. I dont like this. i think this Umair persona is a little propaganda web. A few like minded people maybe politicly involved maybe not. But i’ve been reading this blog for a few months now and Umair’s post are very familiar to me now, he posts constantly somtimes minute by minute day and night which is another reason i think its not one person(unless he has a computer and constant internet connection but no job. which seems hard to do). The biggest reason i feel this is as follows. The style of his writing and his grasp of the english language seems to constatly fluxuate. sometimes respectible grammer and puncuation, and sometimes an out right infantile command of the language. I dont think this is an international conspirisy but the Umair’s do seem to peddle a pro pak anti Indian uncompromising hardline agenda under false pretense. Let me tell you something among it other problems Pakistan will have no peace, no friends, and no justice as long as it has lairs like you speaking for it.

Posted by Matt M | Report as abusive

Myra writes: “he biggest threat is seen as coming from religious extremism and violence.”

Myra,

The poll is confined to a minuscule population (those who have access to computers and internet – colleges and those abroad). Their views do not represent the reality. Unfortunately one cannot take a poll for those on the street and the general population and the views will vary vastly from one province to another. If a poll is taken from the military supporters in that country, their view of the largest threat will be India and not Taliban or religious extremism. They want to use the latter as a leverage against their greatest threat which is India. If the crowds that flock the Madrasas and organizations like LeT are included in the poll, they might view the Western powers as the greatest threat. They are the majority and their views cannot come to the media. So it would be wrong to conclude anything based on what a bunch of arm chair elite say on electronic forums.

“the occupation in kashmir is india copying the tactics of their former british colonists (think the israelis recreating the holocaust in palestine)”
- Posted by Mr. Ketchup

–Mr. Ketchup, Palestine sure have a case and if you Pakistanis want to use the same logic, then pack up and leave this land called Pakistan which you have no right to stay in. You guys lack sense of gratitutde or do not know the history–just want the best piece in pie. Times have changed. Should we show you little trailer of Israel policy. Nonsense idiots.

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive

“Pakistan has nothing to do with the violence in Kashmir, Indians must think themselves.”
- Posted by Umair

-Really Umair. Read this one once more.

Umair: Be a man and stand up to the (mis) deeds of your notorious ISI and establishment. There is nothing worse than losing trust. China via 1962 war has lost trust and rightly so. I did not see Pakistanis (citizens) the same way. Through limited experience, I keep Pakistan and China nearly in the same league now. Reason: one Pakistani citizen has logic for both sides of the coins. Bleeding India with 1000 cuts to Pakistan, knowing and trusting the objevtives of LeT etc terrorists (Umair: This one goes for you especially–I know their objectives as much as you do and they are Pak-sponsored), moral support by Pak to flipping your side and saying Pakistan plays no hand in Kashmir violence and is the peaceful country. For your this non-serious attitude, you little more time, more violence in Pakistan from these terrorists before you kneel down on all your fours and shout loudly and the world care less about you.

And about your statement ~~~ “Taliban have matured in 8 yrs and they do not break statues”, did you forget Sufi Shrine destruction recently by Taliban (or was there lack of evidence?). Taliban, who beheads, destroys schools and kills people for unseemingly no good reason, you are saying they have matured (yes by Sharia Law, perhaps). Good job on your analaysis about the maturity of Taliban, Umair. I wonder how worse an uneducated Pakistani will be. In a thing as improbable as Taliban becoming mature, there is a Punjabi saying “wishing milk from a BULL”. Sadly but bluntly speaking, the reason for this wishfulness of yours is your “common religion”. This is going to take you so far down that there is no hope for coming back. Guys, unforunately, your religion is killing you. Terroists are terrorists and should be treated as such.

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive

Rajeev wrote:
“Times have changed. Should we show you little trailer of Israel policy. Nonsense idiots.”

With due respect Rajeev, Pakistan and India are nuclear powers. If an Israel like aggressive and destructive approach is followed, it will lead everyone to disaster. Because when you have two powerful opponents the fight is bloody.

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive

Settle the Kashmir dispute and ensure peace and stability.
-Umair

Umair:

Settle your confusion arising out of your religion–decide who is your friend, a Hindu infidel or an Muslim terrorist—The world will be in peace.

Said as it is. I can dress it up if you want.

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive

“With due respect Rajeev, Pakistan and India are nuclear powers. If an Israel like aggressive and destructive approach is followed, it will lead everyone to disaster. Because when you have two powerful opponents the fight is bloody.”
- Posted by Umair
Umair:
With equal respet, that one was in response to occupation issue. We have valid reason to say so but do not get into this. Umair: applying that logic, you are occupying a land that does not belong to you. India does not treat it as occupation.

About your post above, India is not stupid to get into war (Pakistan is, from your post) and knows better and safer ways to accomplish the job & those ways are safer and with minimal collateral damage.

Yes, I noticed the word “Nuclear” in your post.

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive

Rajeev
ISI is as notorious as Mossad in Israel or CIA in US. No one is a saint here. And yes, what millitants are doing in Pakistan everone is against it, the people and government of Pakistan. Pakistanis are facing terrorism each day and we will defeat them. They did bomb the Sufi Shrine, they are those elemnts, but who provides them grenades? who gives them weapons? not the ISI. foreign hand is confirmed.

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive

“Pakistan has nothing to do with the violence in Kashmir, Indians must think themselves.”
- Posted by Umair

-Umair:

Is Kargil not part of Kashmir? Was it Let in Kargil war? How many lives on either side were lost? or was it Pak army alone. I think it was high altitute training of ellow bros LeT Inc. by Pak Army.

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive

They did bomb the Sufi Shrine, they are those elemnts, but who provides them grenades? who gives them weapons? not the ISI. foreign hand is confirmed.
-posted by Umair:

Umair: People in Pakistan, like in rest of the Muslim world, would happily believe that CIA (or Mossad and that Jews were on leave that day in WTC) blew the WTC and 3000 Americans in order to land in middle east, and that Indian Establishment conspired Mumbai attack and you are one of those who atleast believe this Mumbai conspiracy thory. So what’s the problem with understanding that ISI is behind bombing the Sufi Shrines.

I don;t even say that, the fact is there is so much lose easily avaialable ammunition out there. Is Pakistan not helping Taliban or has not been helping them and now they are self-revololing machinery. The region is unstable and anyone can get whatever and do whatever. I am nit BULLSh..G, I know through experience that when security is down, even a small time miscreant is a bigtime OBL. I think Taliban blew the shrine.

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive

American Leverage in South Asia
BBC
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/79 71128.stm

-They point out that Pakistan has lost more soldiers in fighting the Taleban and al-Qaeda on the Afghan border than all of the Nato forces combined; and that American officials acknowledge the ISI has captured more al-Qaeda operatives than any other intelligence agency.

-Within the security establishment there is a belief that the ISI is being used as a scapegoat for coalition failures in Afghanistan.

-Some believe the military has never given up its policy of “strategic depth”: the belief that in order to defend itself against its traditional enemy, India, to the east, it needs a pro-Pakistan government (like the Taleban) in Afghanistan, to the west.

-”The Pakistan army knows that it and the Taleban have Pashtun support on both sides of the Durand line. This gives it leverage, and means it can signal to the United States that it will not be abandoned in any Afghan deal.”

-But for Pakistan’s security establishment, its concerns – the presence of India in Afghanistan, Kabul’s refusal to recognise the border, the festering Kashmir dispute – are strategic threats far greater than those posed by Islamist militants.

-Ultimately America’s leverage is limited: in pushing too much, it may lose even the limited cooperation it has.

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive

“History tells us that a weak inner front always tends to invite external aggression,” he said in his address to participants yesterday.
Gilani also said Pakistan had “no aggressive designs against any country” but would counter any threat to its territorial integrity and sovereignty “with full force”.
- Posted by Umair

–Gilani is an intelligent man and has become even more so after Long-March. But is he also thinking a more possible scenario of Pakistan might be the first Nuclear nation with such a big army imploding due to its inability to face the issues of territorial integrity and sovereignty from within–IN THE ABSENCE OF ANY EXTERNAL AGGRESSSION.

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive

Rajeev
“Settle the Kashmir dispute and ensure peace and stability.
-Umair”

—Let’s settle the (Na)Pak nuisance, the imaginary Kashmir will resolve automatically…

Posted by anup | Report as abusive

rajeev,
Jammu & Kashmir have been very quiet places for the time being. Most likely due to all the incidents that are occurring in Pakistan. Those from J&K that are Pro-Pak are keeping their mouths shut until such time when they can carry on yelling AZAD, AZAD! However, J&K can never function as a country on its own because it does not have good infastructure which India is currently building there as they are in Afghanistan (at the Afghan govt request).

Gilani also said Pakistan had “no aggressive designs against any country” but would counter any threat to its territorial integrity and sovereignty “with full force”.

This statement by Gilani is utter BULLSH*T because LeT was created, funded and trained by Pakistan to conduct aggressive designs against India. LeT is part of the Alphabet soup of Taliban groups. Now, Pakistan is suffering at the hands of those very groups it created and is crying foul over them. Pakistan would love to have these groups attack India, so India can counter attack Pakistan, who will go crying off to the UN and USA with sob stories of rape and pillage to get support.

However, India knows better and will not attack and Pakistan will call India weak. Which is hypocrital since the Pak govt is weak against its own problems. India will not attack because it does not want the Taliban united with the Pak Forces and neither does the USA. Especially when Obama has pledges $7.5 billion over 5 years to Pakistan. I am sure China would LOVE to help Pakistan spend this money.

“Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake.”
Napoleon Bonaparte.

Posted by bulletfish | Report as abusive

Umair writes: “They did bomb the Sufi Shrine, they are those elemnts, but who provides them grenades? who gives them weapons? not the ISI. foreign hand is confirmed.”

Kindly do not cheat yourself. Read the book “Front Line Pakistan,” by a Pakistani author. Do not trust your ISI. It has indeed become a sinister organization that is beyond the control of even your military. It has close ties with Al Qaeda and the Taliban. Elements inside the ISI were involved in the assassination attempts on Musharraf.

Umair, do not make the mistake of pride blinding your eyes. Your country is in danger from self-inflicted reasons. There is no foreign hand, other than the Americans and their allies. In India, people are held accountable. by votes or by the law (it works, though it is slow). Anything from the Indian side will be known to the US and it will clip any attempts of subterfuge right away. India is not a monstrous nation as you people believe.

You need help to resolve your own problem that your military leaders created years ago. And you are unable to help yourselves. You have been blinded by propaganda.

Fight those who have hijacked your country. You will get support from all of us, morally at least. Help founding a force that fights institutions like the Taliban, ISI, LeT etc. They are burning your country from within. Do not delude yourself. Time is running out. I am saying this with good intentions. Do not delude yourself. Your country is in need of serious help. Do not trust the Chinese or even the Americans. Help build trust between Indians and Pakistanis. Otherwise, you will be watching the destruction of your country in front of your eyes.

Mauryan,

The world is tired of Pakistani’s indulging in statements, which absolve them of responsibility, they love using the following words:

Words used by Pakistani’s to shift the blame and responsibility

-non-state actors
-” a foreign influence ”
-terrorism is the world’s problem
-If Pakistan fails, the world fails
-It was planned by Mossaid, RAW and CIA
-terrorism was started by the Soviets and Americans
-We are providing only moral support to Kashmir
-”all countries have terrorists”
-911 and Mumbai were “inside” jobs

The list goes on and on. The world is starting to hate Pakistan and this does not bode well for Pakistani’s on Pakistani soil or expatriates living in other countries.

Pakistan is very adept at blame shifting and creating distance between it and terrorism as it has made a business model with the U.S. and the world, in one end, it nurtures and creates the terrorism, on the other end, it pronounces to fight terrorism, this PROBLEM-REACTION-SOLUTION scenario has fueled the business for the ISI and Pak Army and put food on the table for their families.

The question is, will the US continue to be fooled, or focus their drones on the Pakistani cities, where the Taliban and their operational safe houses are operating in the open?

It is the world’s wish that Pakistani’s open their eyes and realize that they have been fooled by Islamic propaganda started by the Zia Al Haq days.

The question is, does the average Pakistani have the courage to take the fight against extremist Islam in the streets and embrace modernism? Or will will they live passively frozen in fear, stay quiet and compliantly embrace the 8th century, as their country gets Islamicized by an evil, canceroius insidious ideology, before it is too late?

Posted by Global Watcher | Report as abusive

Global watcher writes: “The question is, will the US continue to be fooled, or focus their drones on the Pakistani cities, where the Taliban and their operational safe houses are operating in the open?”

American approach to the world geo-politics has been foolish right from the start since WW II. They do not have much left to be fooled.

If Pakistan was sitting within a 1000 mile radius from Israel, the American approach would have been very different. The Jewish lobby in the US controls American policies abroad. America is as much a hostage of the Jewish lobby as Pakistan is of the ISI.

Americans know that they created the roots of today’s mess. They had a chance to clean it all up in 2001. But Dick Cheney and his mafia had their eyes on Iraq and took their entire effort there, knowing very well that whatever they accused Iraq of, was in Pakistan and in a much larger magnitude.

They have to have their priorities straight. If they appear confused, then they will never be able to solve any problem. And they are not here to solve any problem or provide long lasting solutions. They are here for vengeance – to get Bin Laden out and be done with it. They do not care if the Taliban takes over the whole sub-continent and chops off all women’s breasts. They do not care if Indians and Pakistanis nuke each other out either.

They are here for their interests. One thing Pakistan could do is simply hand over Bin Laden to them and they will be gone. They have never been good at nation building outside of their borders. They have enough issues back home right now and Mexico is mushrooming into another tail spinning nation. So they will be in a hurry to get out of Afghanistan.

We need to start thinking what India should do without seeking help from others. We surely have a problem in our vicinity and we need to protect our interests. If Pakistanis reach out to us, may be we can work together and put the beast to bed. They surely will not. Therefore we need to make long terms plans for our own safety and security.

As long as India continues its illegal suppression and occupation of Kashmir, there will be a response from the Kashmiris.

Since the so-called peace process delivered nothing to Pakistan, i think its a good idea if “moral and political support” is resumed to our Kashmiri brethren.

Matt:

Umair is internet face of taliban and jehadis of Pakistan , like other pakis, he is also in the habit of talking nuisance ?

Though it is not relevant here , but I must mention here that in one of cricket matches, where Pakistan lost to India, the then captain publicly while addressing media and viewers present there, said I want to assure the muslims of the world that we have lost to India gallantly fightingly.

This is the attitude of Pakis .

Posted by anju2008 | Report as abusive

Aamir Ali the clown writes: “As long as India continues its illegal suppression and occupation of Kashmir, there will be a response from the Kashmiris.”

We will think about it, as soon as Pakistan ends its illegal suppression and occupation of Balochistan, Azad Kashmir and Sindh. Bangladesh managed to get out of Pakistan’s brutal grip. Now it is time for the other provinces to be freed.

In India, due to a well settled democratic set up, big decisions like creating new states out of existing ones, or allowing for state autonomy or independence have to be approved by vote in the publicly elected parliament and by the people. I understand that in the land of Pakistan, no law exists excepting for namesake positions like the President, Prime Minister etc and the whole thing is run by mullahs managing your intelligence and military. There no one has to be consulted for anything. All it takes is one mad guy at the top to make whatever decision that suits him. We have a process to go through in India and you are not familiar with such things. So be patient, you will soon have to feel for your Islamic brothers in independent Balochistan, Sindhu Desh and Azad Kashmir. Decide who will be your closest and give up your wasted life for them.

@rajeev,
Jammu & Kashmir have been very quiet places for the time being. Most likely due to all the incidents that are occurring in Pakistan. Those from J&K that are Pro-Pak are keeping their mouths shut until such time when they can carry on yelling AZAD, AZAD! However, J&K can never function as a country on its own because it does not have good infastructure which India is currently building”
- Posted by bulletfish

-In their hearts, most Kashmiris in India know that living in India is the safest bet for them. This has been expressed by some Kashmiri bloggers, giving good reasons. On a Pakistani forum, I heard a Kashmiri from POK–now livinmg in Malyasia–telling Pakistanis that Azad Kashmir is not really Azad and is ruled by Punjabis and Sindhis. He was making comparisons of POK to Kashmir India and was wishing to be in India. This blogger at somepoint wrote a letter to the governor of J&K for applying for Engg course in an Indian University. That guy in fact got the reply from the governor–but in negative obviously due to political scenario. But he was all praise for the infrastructure development in Kashmir India–the money which Indian govt is spending there. Kashmiris are aware. But Pakistani bloggers were responding to it by dragging religion into it and bringing that Muslim brotherhood scenario as usual. Young educated progressive Kashmiris are the hope since Allahu Akbar is not a panacea for all ills. Now we have also seen the reports that Kashmiris are serving in Indian Army–and serving proudly. A person who wishes Kashmiris well will wish terrorism being stopped and Kashmiris living in India. Other 2 scenarios-with Pak is not viable and Independent Kashmir will be a still birth.

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive

@As long as India continues its illegal suppression and occupation of Kashmir, there will be a response from the Kashmiris.”
- Posted by Aamir Ali
–Blah Blah….Aamir, go fish.
“Since the so-called peace process delivered nothing to Pakistan,
–you always want the world to give you something. And BTW what were your expectations?
“i think its a good idea if “moral and political support” is resumed to our Kashmiri brethren.”
–Really, dangerous game you are suggesting and calling Kashmiris your brethren–you are their biggest enemy. Leave them alone.

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive

@Mauryan, Umair, Aamir Ali

The U.S. said recently in a news paper that the ISI cannot be trusted by the U.S., please read below:

“U.S. Gen. David Petraeus said that he had discussed reports of ISI complicity with the Taliban in his recent discussions with its chief, Gen. Ahmed Shuja Pasha, and would continue to do so.

“There are accusations, frankly, some when you dig into them seem to be more ambiguous than on the surface but some of them are not,” Petraeus said, referring to alleged ISI-Taliban cooperation. ”

Response, it is quite clear that if things don’t go the way of the U.S., in the long run, it intends to shift its failures to Pakistan’s ISI, since the ISI is still playing the two-faced double-dealing spy agency is keeping its Taliban as strategic assets.

The U.S. will smash Islamabad, Rawalpindi, Lahore in any confrontation. Before this, they will move the entire fifth fleet to the Indian ocean and they will systematically cruise missile Pakistan until it is crippled and will take years to put back together. If the U.S. does not get co-operation, they will find all blame on Pakistan.

If Pakistan decides to nuke the U.S. fifth fleet, in such a scenario, like I said earlier, as soon as Pakistan uses a nuke, Pakistan can count down its days to its final destruction.

Even now, forces like Sen. Levin do not want to give Pakistan any more money. Law makers in the U.S. will call for the dismantling of Pakistan, if all the Billions thrown at it show no results.

Posted by Global Watcher | Report as abusive

Global watcher writes:
“The U.S. will smash Islamabad, Rawalpindi, Lahore in any confrontation.”

Yeah sure, only if the US chooses confrontation with Pakistan in first place. But atleast Americans are not stupid like you Indians, they know the Pakistani power and dont mess with us. Americans have too many problems with Pakistan, they know ISI double games but they never threaten to attack Pakistan. They rather engage with Pakistan and play ball. They know it is a dangerous game messing with nuclear powers like Pakistan, though Iraq and Afghanistan were an easy game for them.
Learn a thing or two from Americans, I always hear only Indians threatening Pakistan with war.

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive

Global watcher
Pakistan will smash New Delhi, Mumbai and Kolkata in any confrontation.

Also, you must be aware of Pakistan naval capability with French and German Agosta B Submarines and warships equipped with C-802 anti-ship missiles any fleet nearing the Karachi naval bases positionning to launch cruise misslie strike on Pakistan mainland will be confronted. Yet, with Pakistan’s own missile capability and (SAM) Surface to air missiles like ANZA MK-1, MK-2 stinger type technology an airstrike is not going to be as easy.

One more thing I feel again and again through your comments that Indians have two main misunderstandings regarding Pakistan’s nuclear weapons:
1.Pakistani nukes are controlled by Americans.
2.Pakistan cannot use nukes in case of war because Pakistanis will be afraid of a counterstrike.

Bullshi*, Pakistan doesnt believe in No-First strike, Pakistan possesses second strike capability,i,e. absorbing a nuclear strike and retaliating with a nuclear strike of its own. Pakistan nukes are safe and ready to be used as and when the need arises, there must remain no illusion and this policy is crystal clear.

I hate to use the N word and getting into hypotheticals, but you need to be reminded again and again.

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive

Umair,

will you please stop bragging about your precious forces and deal with your own country.

UMAIR WROTE:
Pakistan naval capability with French and German Agosta B Submarines and warships equipped with C-802 anti-ship missiles any fleet nearing the Karachi naval bases positionning to launch cruise misslie strike on Pakistan mainland will be confronted. Yet, with Pakistan’s own missile capability and (SAM) Surface to air missiles like ANZA MK-1, MK-2 stinger type technology an airstrike is not going to be as easy.

HOW IS ALL THIS GOING TO HELP YOU AGAINST THE TALIBAN?

Posted by bulletfish | Report as abusive

Umair,

You should really stop mas***bating your nukes while reading or watching ISI. You will go blind.

Posted by bulletfish | Report as abusive

Bullshi*, Pakistan doesnt believe in No-First strike, @Pakistan possesses second strike capability,i,e. absorbing a nuclear strike and retaliating with a nuclear strike of its own. Pakistan nukes are safe and ready to be used as and when the need arises, there must remain no illusion and this policy is crystal clear.”
- Posted by Umair

I wish you have this fire in your belly for civil purposes and development of Pakistan.

@I hate to use the N word
–That’s a progress.

@One more thing I feel again and again through your comments that Indians have two main misunderstandings regarding Pakistan’s nuclear weapons.
1.Pakistani nukes are controlled by Americans.
2.Pakistan cannot use nukes in case of war because Pakistanis will be afraid of a counterstrike.

—These 2 misunderstandings by Indians are shared by many around the globe.

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive

@Umair,

You feel so strongly impassioned about your NxKes. It is a pity that you don’t have that shame passion against fighting Extremist Islam.

Just remember one thing Umair…Brahmos, Brahmos, Brahmos, India has far more than 100 of them, more than enough to catch all your Nxkes while they still in Apogee. OH..I forgot, they will be dropped by your 30 year old F-16 technology. While the F-16 can fly at max 1.1- 1.25 with its Nxkes, just don’t forget, if Indians help invent the American Tomahawk Cruise missile, just remember that India itself of capable of far more better development, speed, accuracy and count than your F-16 junk.

There is no military parity with India. India will be safe, despite any attempt of first launch by Pak. First launch by Pak, will be suicide by Pakistan. Isn’t suicide haraam???!?! Please put your sxxxxde vest in the closet.

Long live Mukhtara Mai!

Posted by Global Watcher | Report as abusive

Tell you what Global watcher, you always try to engage in futile discussion and finding ways to malign Pakistan.
You stated US will attack Pakistani cities, reminded of Pakistan’s nuclear capability now you are stating F-16s are junk and where does Mukhtara Mai come from!

YOU DAMN LOOSER GET A LIFE!
Pakistan bashing is all you are doing here. Can you contribute something positive? atleast Rajeev posts some links indicating he has a reading/learning habit.

what will your next post state? hmmm let me guess, ISI and Pakistani Army collaboration with Taliban!

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive

Umair,

Good! Harness all that anger to fight extremist Islam. That is the core problem at the center of all the issues Pakistan has!

I don’t need to malign Pakistan, Pakistan maligns itself by its actions everyday. I only speak the truth and you say “Malign”.

Umair, I will give you staight talk. Fight Radical Islam and give up the sick animosity with India. Then there will be a level playing field to discuss peace, co-operation, diplomatic ties.

You pro-military guys don’t have the guts, courage or the balls to take the punishing fight to the door steps of Radical Mosques and Madrasas. I don’t see any huge high-level World news shattering events rooting out Radical Islam in Pakistan. You military guys are just good for talk and politics and extorting cash and weapons from the U.S. and talking a big game against India.

As I said before, your useless Faujis, and overbloatingly large, expensive, useless army should be used for farming food and growing your economy.

Instead Pakistan is burning and tearing through the free handouts of cash and using it to shoot rocks and sand in the mountains and claiming any collateral damage as victorious attacks on the Taliban, how laughable.

Everytime those helicopters lift off the ground, they should come back with a huge victory against the Taliban.

Show us a punishing defeat of the Taliban the LeT, JuD and complete dismantling of the Strategic Proxy Jihadi armies, constantly being breastfed by the ISI and Pak Military to one day unleash on India.

Until that happens, Pakistan is not serious and playing a dangerous game.

Posted by Global Watcher | Report as abusive

Global watcher writes: “If Pakistan decides to nuke the U.S. fifth fleet, in such a scenario, like I said earlier, as soon as Pakistan uses a nuke, Pakistan can count down its days to its final destruction.”

Good news Global watcher! In the G20 summit today, President Obama and Putin have come forward to work on nuclear disarmament and the steps to be taken towards that. Though this was an economic summit, Obama took the first step forward. He definitely is a great leader.

I’d love to see India join Obama’s campaign and disarm itself and the other countries. If the whole world gets rid off the nukes, it would be a great human achievement. Countries like Pakistan, North Korea and Iran will be made to follow the global move.

Umair wrote:
…finding ways to malign Pakistan.

-since when does anyone need to find ways to malign Pakistan when Pakistan is doing that perfectly to itself.

Umair wrote:
…reminded of Pakistan’s nuclear capability now you are stating F-16s are junk and where does Mukhtara Mai come from!

-your nukes are no deterrent because if you use them the world will tear Pakistan to pieces and it will remain a pariah in history books.

Umair, you never answer any question that are put directly to you. Is that because you believe yourself to be above them like a feudal lord? On a different blog I rebetted EVERY statement you made in a list (cricket, moutains, nukes, economics, rule of law…etc) and you still answer back with ISI and nukes. You ran out of responses months ago.

Your F-16s are junk. You want to buy Chinese fighter jets, but that has been set back because of engine trouble. The Chinese tried to ‘copy’ a Russian made engine. Even after 20 years of development, it failed. Pakistan had placed an order for 40 of these jets. Russian has even refused to sell its SU-33s to China because they copy the engines. I hope Pakistan keeps hold of the receipt.

Posted by bulletfish | Report as abusive

bulletfish:

Fighting Falcon F-16 C/D Black 52 models joined Pakistan Air Force recently. The Bush Administartion resumed F-16 sales to Pakistan, the earlier version were upgraded by PAF. F-16s are modified to carry a tactical nuclear weapon and they are superior to MiG 29s and SU 30 Flankers which have a larger airframe and lower manouverability. F-16s conduct all manouvers with afterburners on. Here is a video of Wing Commander Haseeb Paracha, Officer Commanding of No. 11 Squadron of PAF carrying out different aerobatic manouvers on his F-16 over Constitution avenue Islamabad on Pakistan day 23 March 2007, these manouvers include loop, steep turn, Cuban eight, Cloverleaf, maximum performance turn, Aileron Rolls and vertical rolls.

Pakistan Airforce -F16- PAF Fighter Jet Air Display Islamabad
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZePBsq-Ec LE

Pakistani F-16s are being upgraded to Block 52 configuration, new fighters are joining PAF being flown in from the US and by 2012 we would have a strength of 70 F-16 Fighting Falcons, moreover our pilots are the best trained. My father served in Pakistan Air Force for more than 25 years and was an armament expert of bombs, missiles, rockets, sidewinder missiles and machine guns mounted on the wings. He used to deploy the weapons on the wings of the fighter jets and send the pilots to test their weapons on the air ranges and get their inputs later. My dad worked on F-7, F-6, Mirage, Hunter and Hawk air crafts and is a veteran of 1971 Indo-Pak war.

Pakistan manufactures and sells the K-8 Jet trainer aircraft to atleast 8 Air Forces around the world. Pakistan is jointly manufacturing JF-17s with China which are superior jet fighters. Atleast I can argue with you on this subject with full authority.

Next time when you call Pakistani F-16s a junk, you must know these are these form the frontline core of Pakistan Air Force and are formidable aircraft flown by best trained pilots. They can beat any world class enemy in a dog fight.

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vbJgmsZsF 3g

Four more F-16s join Pakistan Air Force – July 28, 2008
PAF Base Mushaf(Sargodha, Pakistan).

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive

Umair, my dear fellow. For all your patriotic talk about the weaponary of the Pakistani Forces. Even they cannot stop the Taliban on Pakistani soil.

The ‘Talebanisation’ of Pakistan (BBC news, 04/04/2009)

Posted by bulletfish | Report as abusive

Global Watcher
“@Umair,
You feel so strongly impassioned about your NxKes. “
—That one day the Pakis will ‘refuse’ to part with it & blast it on their own selves…lol

Long live Mukhtara Mai!

Posted by anup | Report as abusive

Same old stuff happening since last 60 years.

@Same old stuff happening since last 60 years.
- Posted by Aamir Ali

–Can you say that louder and clearer to the makers of Pakistanis policies?

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive

@Rajeev

Pakistani policymakers are not the ones who created the Kashmir problem or who keep a 500K occupation army in Kashmir.

@Pakistani policymakers are not the ones who created the Kashmir problem or who keep a 500K occupation army in Kashmir.
- Posted by Aamir Ali

–Yes they do. Tribes and armymen intruded to forcibly takeover Kashmir in 1948 than waiting for UN resolution to ve followed that PM Nehru UNILATERALY propsed. Kashmir did not have army/paramiliytary force until Pakistan started Terrorism that led to 500K Hindu’s exodus (killings and other unpleasant stuff). That’s when 500K Army moved in.

Round and round we go……..

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive

How long will India play tricks with Kashmiris?

Leave my Kashmir, We want freedom!

Shame on India!