How will Obama tackle militants in Pakistan?

March 29, 2009

Read President Barack Obama’s speech on his new strategy for Afghanistan and Pakistan and compare it to what he said a year ago and it’s hard to see how much further forward we are in understanding exactly how he intends to uproot Islamist militants inside Pakistan.

Last year, Obama said that ”If we have actionable intelligence about high-level al Qaeda targets in Pakistan’s border region, we must act if Pakistan will not or cannot.” Last week, he said that, ”Pakistan must demonstrate its commitment to rooting out al Qaeda and the violent extremists within its borders.  And we will insist that action be taken — one way or another — when we have intelligence about high-level terrorist targets.”

The United States has already stepped up attacks by drone missiles on suspected militant targets in Pakistan’s tribal areas since Obama took office, despite official protests by Pakistan, which says they are counterproductive since they cause civilian casualties and encourage people to support the insurgents.

The Pakistani protests began to look rather hollow after media reports that the drones were taking off from a base inside Pakistan. But that may have missed the point. The question of where the drones are based is perhaps less important than the distrust between the U.S. and Pakistani militaries on sharing intelligence about militant targets.

General Ashfaq Kayani, now head of the Pakistan Army, tells a rather revealing story about this. He is quoted in Brian Cloughley’s book “War, Coups and Terror” as describing the case of a tribesman with a performing monkey who gathered an audience of turban-clad, rifle-bearing men around him in a village in 2005. The U.S. controllers of the drone mistook the event for a weapons-training session or military briefing and dropped a missile, killing many in the audience (he doesn’t say what happened to the monkey). “This, said the General, was an example of lack of cultural understanding,” writes Cloughley.

“The monkey incident, and other attacks by the U.S. within Pakistan,” adds Cloughley, “have convinced the population of North West Frontier Province and a disturbing number of other citizens, including many in uniform, that there is nothing to be gained by supporting the United States, which they consider to be overbearing and imperceptive in its engagement with the country.”

So has intelligence-sharing moved on since then?  If the United States wanted to be sure of hitting the right targets, it could ask the Pakistani military to help it guide the drones and then assess, on looking through the remote camera, whether they were on course.  Or as Foreign Minister Mahmood  Qureshi said last month, it could give Pakistan drones to carry out the task itself.

But intelligence-sharing is not easy at the best of times between different national armies. It’s particularly tough when you don’t trust your allies. Senior U.S. military officers say they believe elements in Pakistan’s Inter-Services intelligence, or ISI, provide support to Taliban or al Qaeda militants. Has Obama worked out how to square that circle? As yet, we don’t know.

The other big question is over where the United States intends to target the Islamists. U.S. officials have begun saying publicly that the Afghan Taliban are based in Quetta in the Pakistani province of Baluchistan — quite different from the tribal areas where both the Pakistan Army and the U.S. drone missiles have been concentrated until now.  “Quetta appears to be the headquarters for the leaders of the Taliban and some of the worst people in the world,” special envoy Richard Holbrooke said in an interview with the BBC.

Does that mean the United States is preparing to expand its drone missile attacks into Baluchistan as the New York Times suggested? We don’t know for sure, although some analysts have suggested the NYT report might have been deliberately leaked to put pressure Pakistan to do more to tackle the Taliban in Baluchistan.

NPR last week quoted Anthony Cordesman of the Center for Strategic and International Studies as saying that, ”the main traditional center of Taliban activity is … in the Baluchi area. It is, at this point in time, by far the most effective threat to NATO and U.S. and Afghan forces.”

But ordering drone strikes in Baluchistan, writes former Pakistan ambassador Akbar Ahmed in the Huffington Post, is “not a good idea. The colonial British assiduously prevented the Baluch tribe of Baluchistan and Pashtun tribes of Southern Afghanistan and Pakistani agencies like North and South Waziristan from ever teaming up against them. I can predict that with the first drone strike in Baluchistan, America will ensure that this occurrs. As a result, the Taliban will gain new supporters and vast strategic depth.”

Pakistan already faces a separate insurgency in Baluchistan by Baluchis angered by what they see as the domination of the country by Punjabis who have failed to give them a fair share of the revenues from the resource-rich province. It is quite separate from the Taliban, although -complicating the picture further – Pakistani officials complain that the Baluchistan insurgency is supported by India — a charge India denies.

Pakistan President Asif Ali Zardari – who prides himself on his ability to unite Pakistan’s disparate regions - his family originally came from Baluchistan while the Pakistan People’s Party of his late wife Benazir Bhutto has its roots in Sindh province - has promised to try to address the grievances of the people of Baluchistan.  That’s hardly in line with a stepped-up military campaign, whether by the Pakistan Army or by U.S. drone missile attacks.

So what does Obama plan to do about the Afghan Taliban, who according to his own officials operate openly in Quetta?

Pakistan has traditionally resisted going after the Afghan Taliban, arguing that they are primarily interested in regaining power in Afghanistan and do not present a global threat in the same way as does al Qaeda — an assessment always hard to judge given the close links between the two. According to this argument, if the Taliban could be persuaded to sever ties with al Qaeda, they could be included in any eventual political settlement in Afghanistan.

Obama appeared to rule this out on Friday when he talked of ”an uncompromising core of the Taliban” which would allow al Qaeda back into Afghanistan.  “They must be met with force, and they must be defeated.”  How exactly will they be met with force? We don’t know.

There is still much to learn about Obama’s plans for Afghanistan and Pakistan and the U.S. administration itself will probably refine it as it goes along. But watching what happens in Baluchistan is as good a place to start as any. My guess is that for all the talk of bringing in Iran into a regional solution for Afghanistan, developments in Baluchistan could turn out to be more significant.

66 comments

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http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/03/29/o bama.pakistan/index.html

Pakistan wants to have its cake and eat it too. In more exact words, it wants to appear to be fighting the Taliban, while keeping remnants of it as a strategic asset to weaponize against India and Afghanistan.

Pakistan’s head must be smashed against the wall until it is knocked out and complies with the U.S., fully and wholeheartedly, no exceptions.

Obama is on a mission to prove himself and defeat the Taliban and Al-Qaeda permanently and those who train, support and provide weapons, aid and intelligence to them, they know who they are.

If Obama fails, there is another party in waiting, namely the U.S. Reoublicans who have a huge chip on their shoulders because of the Bushes. They will want a total and complete regime change of Pakistan. They will invade Pakistan and decapitate Rawalpindi and Islamabad, if necessary. That is why it is in Pak’s interest to comply fully and wholeheartedly.

Posted by Global Watcher | Report as abusive

I hope the US does not take short term decisions and leave as soon as their “job is done.” A region like this needs long term policies. Since they got into the mess thirty years ago, it is important for them not to call the case as closed as soon as Al Qaeda is defeated. Al Qaeda will disappear as soon as their leaders either die a natural death or or killed. What remains is the feeling in the hearts of these people. Until that is changed by reducing religious zeal and fanaticism, terrorism will remain as the core back bone of this region and will appear in many names. Al Qaeda is just a name. Islamic terrorism underlies the various names in which its branches appear out of the ground.

I hope wisdom prevails. The US still is making the big mistake of trusting the Pakistanis. They are hitting a target away from the center and they will not do a good job as a result.

the senior balochi politicians are having fallouts and are upset with the current government…basically they want musharraf to be tried for treason for the operations he started in balochistan including killing of bughti. lets see if iftikhar chaudhry, himself from queta, can do something abt musharraf. but clearly the army (and perhaps america) is not too keen on such a shameful trial..

funding pakistan’s most famed known criminal (zardari) , diagnosed with dementia and memory loss by New York’s own psychiatrists, what is US thinking it is doing dealing with this man? all this is achieving is to fuel more conspiracy theories, now even in the iranian media: ” A Press TV poll suggests Pakistan’s political turmoil has been orchestrated by the US in an attempt to partition the nuclear-armed country.” http://www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=899 51&sectionid=351020401

it goes without saying the iranians are watching closely US activities in Balochistan, given the restiveness in their own sistan/baluchistan area. and lets not forget the chinese and the gwadar link..

Posted by Mr. Ketchup | Report as abusive

As usual, Myra MacDonald is mired in baloney. Pakistan has to be held accountable for the terrorist franchises that it has created, no matter how hard it tries to squirm out of its responsibilities. Pakistanis are the biggest complainers against the war on terror, and yet they are the biggest profiteers from it. If Pakistan only wants to survive by terrorizing the world, then Pakistan’s survival may have to be ended, for the safety of the world.

Posted by Sanjay | Report as abusive

The article confuses the fact that Quetta is the capital of Balochistan with the idea that the Baloch would be unhappy if the US moves against the Taliban in Quetta. The Baloch are secular minded people who are very unhappy about the mass migration of Pushtun Taliban into Quetta. Besides, the traditional resentment of the Pakistani occupation of Balochistan in 1948, one of the major Baloch grievances at the present time is the support provided by Pakistan to the Taliban in Baloch areas to undercut Baloch power.

The US can expect genuine support from the Baloch, much as it got from those in the Northern areas of Afghanistan.

Posted by Shikarpuri | Report as abusive

From the start of Afghan war in 1977, Pakistan has been carrying out US agenda and now the country itself has become a war zone. As a state Afghanistan never was and never be the core issue for Pakistan. It is India which Pakistan cares as it has fought three wars and never have normalised relations with it since its independence. Whatever Pakistan has been doing and whatever it will do in future under US pressure in terms of financial and military aid and assistance, it never going to please US. The fact is that there was and there is no other country in the region which can help US in this troubled part of the world. Whether it was Afghan War in 1977 or Taliban/Al-Qaida in 2001, or today after seven years of failed attempts to control Afghanistan, US need Pakistan. It’s a love and hate relationship between Pakistan and US both accused each other for their own failures and need each other. It is basically a given take relationship between two partners and that the current US administration seems to forgetting. Accusing Pakistan for everything and pushing its Army and ISI to hard will not do any benefit ..carrot and stick strategy even can work only up to certain extant . and now Obama administration seems like to use more stick than carrot and that will certainly lead to a disaster. There will be very little support for US action within Pakistani public, Army and off course in intelligence community. A little financial assistance with strict controls will not be able to persuade Pakistan government and army to do more. Obama administration has to do what President Obama said before election. The key to deal with Afghan problem is to first deal with disputes with India and Pakistan.. There is only one core issue for Pakistan it establishment and it people and that is to resolve all outstanding issues with India including Kashmir.

Posted by sal | Report as abusive

sal,
Do not drag the Kashmir issue into this. News ot if Kashmir has been relatively quiet even from the hardline, pro-Pakistani groups. Maybe because of all the negative events that have occurred in Pakistan.

So you think that if the Kashmir issue is resolved, everything will be alright? What is this resolvement? Please do not tell me that the resolvement will be Jammu and Kashmir, in its entireity, cedes to Pakistan. Cede to Pakistan:

A country with an extremely weak govt.
A country with a preseident who has an international reputation for corruption.
A country that claims to NOW be a democracy yet surrenders the region of Swat to the barbarism of the Taliban.
A country that is NOT living, but SURVIVING on handouts from the world when all countries are experiencing an economic crisis.
A country that promises ‘Presidential Protection’ to the Sri Lankan cricket team and fails to do so.
A country whose Military and Intelligence services play a double game of Taliban victim to get aid from the USA and pro-Taliban snitch to alert them to US troops attacks.

Pakistan is becoming more and more like a drug addict. It is addicted to aid from the West and will continue to harm itself to receive more aid.

Posted by bulletfish | Report as abusive

are India and Pakistan ever coming to the negociating table with an idea for the common good of humanity, its called altruism. the biggest surprise being that these areas were the respected seats of learning for millenium.

what happened to the prince Siddhartha and his sublime teachings and the peaceful ways and refinement of Gandhi.

are they all but forgotten.

Posted by brett kenneth sweeny | Report as abusive

At the beginning of THIS month…

PAKISTAN could not protest the Sri Lankan cricketers. STILL, the attackers have not been caught!!!

PAKISTAN had its physical exercise with a Long March to re-instate the Chief Justice, which COST Pakistani businesses 10 billion Pak rupees and NOW Zardari is going to go to his Friends Of Pakistan meeting, in April, to ask for $10 billion!!

PAKISTAN have a suicide bomber walk into a restaurant near Peshawar and…BOOM!…no more restaurant and many dead. A anti-Taliban man was in that place.

PAKISTAN have another suicide bomber blow himself up in a mosque in Jamrud during Friday prayers! Over 50 dead and the mosque is completely destroyed!!!

PAKISTAN has an armed group holed up in a police academy in eastern Pakistan after attacking it with grenades and rifles. 11 killed.

It is now the end of THIS month.

It makes me want to vomit reading these headlines coming out of Pakistan and knowing that Obama is going to give more aid to Pakistan.

Posted by bulletfish | Report as abusive

President Obama Never Trust Pokistan they are your enemy give the right of Baloch Nation which is Free Balochistan i garantee you taliban and Al Qaeda will Disapear from the face of the mother Earth

Posted by Said Han | Report as abusive

@ Sal, Brett
You should read wikipedia about the peace process between India and Pakistan and why it got derailed. Noone should teach India altruism. I am sure if it had been US embassy attacked in Afghanistan instead of Indian embassy with concrete proof of ISI’s involvement (even US intelligence agreed to that) then may be you wouldn’t have been preaching peace.
Anyways, how do you negotiate with a country whose stated purpose of being is to bleed you into thousands cuts?
Also, Kashmir is peaceful in this side of the border. Recent elections had more than 60% people coming out to vote dispite boycotts by seperatists. Even seperatists admit they were stunned by the number of people coming out to vote.
And this Taliban is US’s creation so is the problem in Afghanistan of geo-political reasons. So anyone from US shouldn’t teach anyone altruism.
Also, if US genuinely needs to solve this then it could look at taking help from Iran. Yes i know you consider it a pariah state. But just think about it was after a people’s revolution to ouster a monarchy that US’s relation with Iran detoriated and they still have elections. So does US support monrachy? I am asking this just to make it very clear that people from US don’t have a moral ground to preach other countries because US itself doesn’t follow what it preaches. I do not hate US all I am trying to say is every country looks at its own benefits. So does India, which has made attempts to extend a hand of friendship to Pakistan which is reciprocated by terrorist attacks. I am sure US wouldn’t have been this charitable.

Posted by Aman | Report as abusive

Kenneth Sweeny writes: “what happened to the prince Siddhartha and his sublime teachings and the peaceful ways and refinement of Gandhi.”

Gandhi was assassinated by a religious fanatic. The western center of Buddhist learning (Taxila) was cut off into a Muslims only nation by violence minded politicians. India has moved on somewhat better despite frequent riots and violence. In general, Indian leaders have tried to push the country along the path of secularism. Still a lot needs to be done. Pakistan has good people. But they have been shut out and their country has been taken over by war mongering and corrupt leaders. As a result Pakistan has to go through a violent re-organization and hopefully emerge as a sensible region in the future.

Mauyan,
I agree with that Pakistan has good people, but these good people are doing nothing. They will protest against US drone attacks, but not one soul protested against the Lahore attacks on the Sri Lankan cricketers. Now another attack, but on a Police Training School. I (and you may have too) have read plenty of blogs of Pakistanis expressing their anger and grief, but writing blogs is not going to stop these terrorists.

The last thing I would like to hear is that these groups are NON-STATE ACTORS, RAW, Mossad, CIA-Taliban, Foreign Fighters, Irresposible Taliban, Non-negociating Taliban…etc. These are just recycled, pathetic excuses. One of the attackers caught is a Pashtun.

Sure, in India we have our problems too, but we deal with them and have dealt with them.

I fear these attacks in Pakistan because they may spill over into India. All it takes is one person to get the ball rolling. I also fear them because if these attacks continue to such an extreme we may see these ‘good people of Pakistan’ crossing Wagah border for their safety. What will Pakistanis think of India then?

Pakistan has hit another low:
Israel, Pakistan, North Korea and Iran are widely seen as exerting the most negative influence on world affairs. (from DAWN.com)

Posted by bulletfish | Report as abusive

“It makes me want to vomit reading these headlines coming out of Pakistan and knowing that Obama is going to give more aid to Pakistan.”

bulletfish,

u can vomit all you like, but it is better you go and worry abt whats happening in india:

“..for all the fear generated by last year’s Islamist bombings in Mumbai and the anger directed at Pakistan, the most potent threat to the world’s largest democracy is internal.

For the reason why India will not be hosting the lucrative IPL Twenty20 cricket tournament is simple: the Indian government cannot provide enough security to cover the month-long general election campaign – which begins on 16 April – and the cricket..”
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/mar  /29/india-election-naxals

Posted by Mr. Ketchup | Report as abusive

Mr. Ketchup,
Thank you for your concern over my physical well being. The reason I vomit is because I live near the Indo-Pak border. If you think hosting the IPL is of a greater concern to me than what is happening over my back wall then you are mistaken.

You have a lot of nerve to mention the ONE attack in Mumbai against ALL the attacks that have happened in Pakistan during March. Who on Earth would want to come to Pakistan NOW and play test cricket?

Posted by bulletfish | Report as abusive

bulletfish,

“If you think hosting the IPL is of a greater concern to me than what is happening over my back wall then you are mistaken.”

this issue is not abt cricket, but it highlights a much graver problem WITHIN indian society.

“You have a lot of nerve to mention the ONE attack in Mumbai against ALL the attacks that have happened in Pakistan during March.”

i did not mention anything, merely conveyed what has already been published in the paper.

“Who on Earth would want to come to Pakistan NOW and play test cricket?”

agreed! pakistan needs to seriously sort itself out.

but as the massive international publicity and success surrounding Slumdog Millionaire has shown, india has many internal developmental abnormalities it still needs to confront. but it seems a part of the indian elite would rather constantly obsesss abt, and have a go at pakistan then do something for its own neglected people..

Posted by Mr. Ketchup | Report as abusive

Mr. Ketchup,

If you read ALL the news from all different sources you will find that Pakistan is thrust to the front for the majority of the time. Whether the news is out of Pakistan or another Obama speech. Pakistan is in the limelight of the world for all the wrong reasons.

I have only read very milder stories from India. Most revolving around the TATA Nano and Kashmiris joining the Indian Forces in Kahsmir.

India does confront these abnormalities. We acknowledge that we have problems here and we do whatever we can to deal with them.

Good day, time to go home.

Posted by bulletfish | Report as abusive

Mr. Ketchup

—Slumdog millionaire is based on the area called Dharavi in Mumbai & for your kind information it’s one of the most thriving micro scale industrial area in the world & would well feature as one of the highest priced properties internationally, no wonder the British film censor board passed it as a comedy film, probably knowing that jokers like you will freak on it…

Posted by anup | Report as abusive

Myra

“(he doesn’t say what happened to the monkey)”

—It survived to narrate the tale to Brian Cloughley…

Posted by anup | Report as abusive

Or as Foreign Minister Mahmood Qureshi said last month, it could give Pakistan drones to carry out the task itself.
*-Langoor ke haath mein angoor!

—Give the grapes to the monkey…for safe-keeping

Posted by anup | Report as abusive

Ketchup writes: “as the massive international publicity and success surrounding Slumdog Millionaire has shown, india has many internal developmental abnormalities it still needs to confront. but it seems a part of the indian elite would rather constantly obsesss abt, and have a go at pakistan then do something for its own neglected people.”

Surely India has internal issues. But its condition cannot be equated with Pakistan which has begun to burn rapidly. The two countries simply cannot be compared.

India has certain advantages that Pakistan does not – Its vastness and diversity. It is both an advantage and a drawback. Advantage in the sense, issues similar to those in Pakistan are localized and cannot spread far and wide. Disadvantage in the sense, progress becomes non-uniform and slow. But that is the nature of the beast.

India, despite all the issues, has trudged along the path of progress. No one can deny that. India’s problems are known and they are similar to many developing countries. Religion based terrorism is not one of them. India is also respected for many of its accomplishments – Green revolution, self-sufficiency in food, technological base and infrastructure (Tata Nano is an example), scientific research institutions, movie industry (the recent Oscar is one example), spiritual leaders (Mahesh Yogi, Ravi Shankar, Yoga, Meditation) etc have gained lot of respect for the nation.

Honestly tell me what the impression of Pakistan is? Today it is known as a hot bed of terrorism to the outside world. Everyday we see news of terrorist attacks. This is not from outside influence. It is the fruition of 60 years of wrong choices and wrong efforts. It is not as vast as India and its diversity is not large enough to offset problems that spread in all directions.

India, though is termed as a Hindu majority nation, it is only in the name. Hinduism is not uniform like Islam. It comes combined with social variations, regional variations and so on. There is a state in the south which is run by political parties that relate to atheism. There is a neighboring state that has elected communists for more than 50 years. Some states have high literacy and some are really backward. Some have high yield agricultural production. Some have industrial base.

So from the outside people see something and draw conclusions. India is too big for drawing any conclusions.

Pakistan is relatively more uniform is dominated by the Punjabi ethnic group. Its leaders have focused too much on defense build up and feudal system is still persistent. India eradicated feudalism completely. So progress, albeit slow, has been made.

Most people in India do not worry about Pakistan or its existence. Things get the attention whenever terrorism sponsored by your country (government or non-government) happens inside India. People turn around and curse Pakistan at those times. Otherwise, people are more concerned about their livelihood and other matters.

In general, most people do not obsess with Pakistan. But Pakistanis seem to have been misled with Indian paranoia, even including your text books. That explains the problem.

Myra
“Has Obama worked out how to square that circle?”
Ofcourse!
OBAMA:-“So let me be clear: Al Qaeda and its allies — are in Pakistan and Afghanistan.
This almost certainly includes al Qaeda’s leadership: Osama bin Laden and Ayman al-Zawahiri.
we have a clear and focused goal: to disrupt, dismantle and defeat al Qaeda in Pakistan and Afghanistan,… And to the terrorists who oppose us, my message is the same: We will defeat you.
It’s important for the American people to understand that Pakistan needs our help.. So today, I am calling upon Congress to pass a bipartisan bill .. that authorizes $1.5 billion in direct support to the Pakistani people every year over the next five years…. the American people must understand that this is a down payment on our own future…. make no mistake: Our efforts will fail in Afghanistan and Pakistan if we don’t invest in their future. They make the American people safer. And they save us an enormous amount of money in the long run –– and that is what history calls on us to do once more. “

“ it’s far cheaper to train a policeman to secure his or her own village than to help a farmer seed a crop — or to help a farmer seed a crop than it is to send our troops to fight tour after tour of duty with no transition to Afghan responsibility.”

—This one takes the cake!(whatever it means, or does it means that it doesn’t means anything)

Posted by anup | Report as abusive

To brett kenneth sweeny,

You wrote, “are India and Pakistan ever coming to the negociating table with an idea for the common good of humanity, its called altruism”

- Brett, dude, you don’t keep up with the current updates related to Indo-Pak affairs over Kashmir, do you?

India-Pak had several rounds of secret talks over settling Kashmir and other border disputes. Both came very close in permanently settling the disagreements. Musharraf, when he was the president, didn’t know how to sell the Kashmir solution to Pakistanis. He asked for more time and soon after got engulfed in political crisis and lost his office. The talks received a setback due to the ongoing instability in Pakistan and the Mumbai terrorist attacks. Now, how do I know all this? Please read Steve Coll, South Asia expert, in the NY magazine.

Posted by Nikhil | Report as abusive

[...] next two are both from Reuters’ excellent blog on the region. This, from Myra MacDonald, outlines the extent of the distrust and the lack of co-operation between [...]

Posted by Mauryan :
4subcontinent writes: “British did say Indians would not rule well. It applies to the entire subcontinent as well, from seeing what happens each day in India and around”

Pakistanis somehow desperately try to equate Pakistan with India and drag it along with their miserable state. India has moved on. It was teetering on the edge and it looked as though it would prove the British right. But its overall secular and democratic system has managed to push them forward towards a better condition. If they continue for a few more decades, they will emerge a very stable and strong democracy. The riots, leaders etc that you mention in India are too small to make a global impact on the whole nation.

Pakistan unfortunately is controlled by a martial group who have war running in their bloods. And their hair is burning with religious fanaticism. They have chosen the wrong path. As a result, I was referring to Pakistan specifically as those who need to be kept under control by a bunch of powers.

Sorry if it hurts.

- Posted by anup
4subContinent
“May be the entire subcontinent should be handed over to British for another century.”

—Would the bunch of thieving mercenaries dare!

———————————————————well anup and mauryan i think british were the problem and not the solution..

It’s such an ironic thing. Before the British came, India was one of the world’s great economies. For 200 years India dwindled and dwindled into almost nothing. Fifty years after they left we have finally begun to reclaim our place in the world.

All the empirical facts show you that British rule was a disaster for India. Before the British came 25% of the world trade originated in India. By the time they left it was less than 1%.
for more enlitening facts check out
“sea of poppies” by amitav gosh.

Posted by Raging bull | Report as abusive

Myra:

Unless I missed, what do you think about the feasibility of Pakistan interetsted in eradicating terrorism, keeping in mind the finacial benifits Pak gets. I know your answer “no opinion please”, but some link etc.

Also liked is the question, What would be more financially profitable: 1. terorist-free Pakistan that does not bleed the Pak resources on military or 2. Pak having some terrorist and enjoying finacial help.

Is it feasible in reality for Pak to have a terrorist-free Pakistan, keeping in mind their other objectives? How much would it impact the aid from outside?

Is it feasible in reality for US to have a terrorist-free Pakistan, keeping in mind their other objectives?

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive

@what happened to the prince Siddhartha and his sublime teachings and the peaceful ways and refinement of Gandhi.
are they all but forgotten.
- Posted by brett kenneth sweeny

-I do not know which country you are from.
Thanks for the concern.
Whatever happened to President Obama—especially him—about the teachings of Martin Luther King, Jr., who once said:
“Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.”
Obama instead is using drones.

US got attacked on 9/11 and alol hell broke lose on earth killing 100,000 of innocents. Obama is using drones now. India got attacked by 26/11 and using diplomacy.

Blogging etc keep it mostly verbal–hurts no one. If some action is takem it will be a “call to duty” nothing more nothing less.

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive

@For the reason why India will not be hosting the lucrative IPL Twenty20 cricket tournament is simple: the Indian government cannot provide enough security to cover the month-long general election campaign – which begins on 16 April – and the cricket..”
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/mar   /29/india-election-naxals
- Posted by Mr. Ketchup

–Others also mentioned IPL going away. But did you fault-finders see one thing. India does not promise what it cannot deliver like Pakistan promised SL team supposedly Presidential level security. India promised England who pulled out after 26/11 Mumbai mid-way thru the tour. England came back and th stadium Had NSG commandoes all over it and England went back safely. So the moral of the story still is: “they trust India if India promises” There is no pill for the whiners–and shameless too.

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive

Please go through the link below:

http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/Dawn %20Content%20Library/dawn/the-newspaper/ columnists/better-wake-up-sirs,-and-fast
By Kamran Shafi

For those who do not have the time, I have pasted 2 paragraphs out of the article…

We Pakistanis must stop living in denial forthwith if this country is to survive. We must take head-on the terrorist/extremist/Al Qaeda menace if we are to leave our succeeding generations a country half worth living in. We must stand up collectively as the great nation we are and say to those that engineer situations to suit their own institutional needs and wants that enough is enough!

I mean, really! We seem to have learnt no lessons at all from history. We were in denial about East Pakistan and see what happened there. We foolishly became the front-line state for America’s war against the Soviet Union and see what a mess we made of Afghanistan, and of our own country as a spin-off. We went along with the ‘bleeding of India’ nonsense in Kashmir and see where that particular exercise landed us. In 1991, when we began to ‘bleed’ India, our foreign exchange reserves were $300m and India’s were $5.8bn. In February 2008, India’s reserves were $292bn and ours in November 2008, nine months later, were $6.5bn. So who bled who?

Posted by Tushar | Report as abusive

from Dawn.com

The chief of Tehrik-i-Taliban, Baitullah Mehsud, on Tuesday took responsibility for an attack.

‘Yes, we have carried out this attack. I will give details later,’ Mehsud, an al Qaeda-linked leader based in the Waziristan tribal region told Reuters by telephone.

I have just spent my coffee break reading through a series of different ‘Pakistani Blogs’ and those by Pakistanis on western media sites. I still cannot believe that they have the audacity to come out with their regular rhetoric time and time again. Even Reham Malik is stating that a foreign hand is involved just because these attacks were close to the Indo-Pak border. Yet the day after the attack Baitullah Mehsud admits it was his doing. What the Pakistani govt and people going to do now? Absolutely nothing!!!! They will continue to believe that it was India or this Indian Taliban that has been completely fabricated. They still have their heads buried in the sand and even after such attacks fail to acknowledge the stark reality that is happening in front of their own eyes. These attackers are from their own soil with no one else’s help except their own. When the Pakistani people start to deny this they are helping these terrorists gain the upper hand.

After such attacks all I red and hear is: RAW, Mossad, India, Foreign Hands, 170 million strong, nukes, RAW, Mossad, India, Foreign Hands, 170 million strong, nukes RAW, Mossad, India, Foreign Hands, 170 million strong, nukes RAW, Mossad, India, Foreign Hands, 170 million strong, nukes RAW, Mossad, India, Foreign Hands, 170 million strong, nukes RAW, Mossad, India, Foreign Hands, 170 million strong, nukes RAW, Mossad, India, Foreign Hands, 170 million strong, nukes RAW, Mossad, India, Foreign Hands, 170 million strong, nukes RAW, Mossad, India, Foreign Hands, 170 million strong, nukes RAW, Mossad, India, Foreign Hands, 170 million strong, nukes RAW, Mossad, India, Foreign Hands, 170 million strong, nukes RAW, Mossad, India, Foreign Hands, 170 million strong, nukes RAW, Mossad, India, Foreign Hands, 170 million strong, nukes RAW, Mossad, India, Foreign Hands, 170 million strong, nukes RAW, Mossad, India, Foreign Hands, 170 million strong, nukes…etc.

Posted by bulletfish | Report as abusive

As long as the situation in Palestine continues to fester peace and prosperity will be elusive throughout the Muslim world. U.S. aid continues to flow to Israel at the very same time recommendations for war crimes charges against Israel are made before the UN and the International Court. The Eu has suspended the upcoming summit with Israel as she continues to support settlements on seized Palestinian lands and territory.

The U.S. administration should be as tough with it’s dealings with Israel as GM. After all we have given more tax dollars to Israel than anyone else. Such action may not achieve desired results but would certainly earn the respect of the Muslim world. This in turn might lend some much needed credibility to the State Departments efforts to engage these troubled region through diplomacy.

Posted by Anubis | Report as abusive

Anubis,
Would you please not rant on about the Middle East on this blog. This blog is about Pakistan and NOT the Israel-Palestine matter, got it?!!!

If you think for a split second that what is happening in Pakistan is aligned with the Israel-Palestine matter, then YOU ARE WRONG!!! Just because Pakistanis and MOST Palestinians are Muslim does not mean that what affects one affects the other. I do not want to hear that they are bretheren because more Muslims have been killed by Muslims since this so-called War On Terror!

All I will state on this matter is that Pakistanis will protest against Israel and raise money for the Gaza Palestinians, but will not raise any protest marches against the Taliban wrecking havoc in their own country.

Posted by bulletfish | Report as abusive

The US administration, at the highest levels, have been asserting lately, the connections, Pakistani ISI has with the Taliban and one can assume that there will be increased US strikes in NWFP, FATA, and Baluchistan.
The Pakistani military is likely to accept it as unwanted turn of fate and the politicians would not mind a cleanup that the Pakistani military could not accomplish. There could be ground strikes of special-ops to follow up on the drone fired missiles. Death and displacement of innocent civilians caught up in a war to erect and maintain US as the sole super power, will go up. The US officials do admit that the Taliban and other such elements were formed by the ISI with the US support and will.
The people in the region have paid dearly for the super war of the mightiest and the cleanup of the goons that war created. I hope each and every loss of lives and limbs and homes is properly documented so there could be a claim for reparations in an international court. Pakistani politicians must raise this issue with the US to get the victims compensated fairly.
As for the ISI, we still have to see if the military has any control over it or there could be a confrontation between the state and its very powerful spy agency. Though, the ISI is not solely responsible for the mess we are in. The Americans and the Saudis had played their parts in organizing, funding and weaponizing these elements that are categorized as the enemies of civilization.
Blaming the ills of today on ISI/US and Saudis does not complete the list of the accused. The corrupt politicians and military leaders were never behind in plundering and they found political strength from the political/religious parties that provided a religious/patriotic propaganda, and stirred religious and ethnic hatred to distract the people from real issues.
From the very beginning in 1947, religious versus secular and autocratic versus democratic, the questions basic to the formation of a state were vehemently crushed by the hammer of Islamic state for muslims. The so-called rationalist muslim thinkers like Maudoodi had a field day when Iqbals idea of a separate political identity for muslims of India materialized to become Pakistan. Though Iqbal had recommended a reconstruction of religion, fellows like Maudoodi took it upon themselves to contrive the state into a representation of continued Islamic spirit and history, as they saw it, perpetuating over 1400 years.
Political divide representing religion and patriotism, provided the cover to corruption and conspiracy of the rulers, and the penal code and justice system, the British left us with, was eroded by the ways of elitism and absence of democracy. While the mullas kept blaming all ills on the absence of religion in society, they could not find any knowledgeable solution to any known problems. Military dictatorships found natural allies in the religious/political elements, and fear of extinction against their big neighbour India, fuelled all movements. Military, the most stable institution in Pakistan, turns out to be the only institution alive. All resources were sucked in by the military which had the sacred and critical task of safeguarding the territory, but it took it upon itself, the task of governance and surrendered half of the country to India along with 96000 soldiers. That did not stop the military from taking over the country, again and again, and today, their creation, the ISI and the jihadis stand out against the Americans, trampling the peace and prosperity of a people, sending them to death and misery.

Posted by Malik Rashid | Report as abusive

Anubis
“As long as the situation in Palestine continues to fester peace and prosperity will be elusive throughout the Muslim world.”

— on the contrary, worse! peace & prosperity will kill them & even the US of A will die of boredom in a sane & serene world.

“The U.S. administration should be as tough with it’s dealings with Israel as GM.”

—Duh? maybe you meant ‘as Hitler…

Posted by anup | Report as abusive

Malik Rashid writes: “fear of extinction against their big neighbour India, fuelled all movements.”

Malik,

Compared to others from your country, you have written some sensible words. The above mentioned fear is unnecessary. Your military created and sustained that fear and it has spread to common people. Countries like Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, Nepal etc are also small countries and they have accepted the large size of India. They do not indulge in irritating their bigger neighbor.

Typically if a country fears another, they will build defensive mechanisms and not engage in causing insurgency inside the nation they see as a threat.

India did not trigger the secession of Bangladesh. They used an emerging situation that was internal to Pakistan to their strategic advantage. Mukti Bahini was entirely home grown to fight the Pakistani military. India did not create an institution for cutting up Pakistan in two. The situation presented itself and India, in my opinion, was right in capitalizing on that. And Pakistan was not doing social service to their Bengali brothers. They engaged in genocide that caused serious refugee problem on India which was really poor at that time. And the great USA turned a blind eye to the atrocities that happened there at that time.

Returning to the subject, for the past four decades, India has been minding its own business, in regards to Pakistan. There is fear of China and India was mauled by China in 1962. We can never trust them. So we went nuclear and built IRBMs. The Chinese will not mess with us directly again. Pakistan built the nukes and everyone knows that India will not dare mess with Pakistan either.

That feeling of security should be good enough for Pakistan to move on towards progress. But instead, your leaders decided to use the nuclear power as a cover for engaging India by means of insurgency. And in order to keep the power base to themselves, they have made India into a monster.

In reality, India is a benign nation. I know many Pakistanis do not trust us. But we have no organizations like LeT, JuD etc inside India that focus only on destabilizing Pakistan and our military or RAW is not backing anything against Pakistan. Somehow your people, at least the moderate ones have to help remove this paranoia about India. Every time peace initiatives happened, they got derailed by activities from your country – Kargill, Mumbai and so on.

Malik Rashid

“I hope each and every loss of lives and limbs and homes is properly documented so there could be a claim for reparations in an international court. Pakistani politicians must raise this issue with the US to get the victims compensated fairly.”

—What do you think the $10billion(bush) + 7.5billion(obama)+ weapons + IMF + aids + etc. etc. are if not compensations? You Pakistani’s live off on the blood of the innocents.

“when Iqbals idea of a separate political identity for muslims of India materialized to become Pakistan..fellows like Maudoodi took it upon themselves to contrive the state into a representation of continued Islamic spirit and history, as they saw it, perpetuating over 1400 years.”

—What else could’ve been the logical conclusion of the fanatic & obscure fantasyland of Iqbal,but ‘trampling the peace and prosperity of a people, sending them to death and misery.’ Why blame the Americans for your own sins?

Posted by anup | Report as abusive

Anup
“You Pakistani’s live off on the blood of the innocents.”

The blood of 8500 martyred soldiers is very expensive, the $7.5bn of Obama dollars cant bring happiness to the daughter of an Army officer killed in counter insurgency operations.
Pakistan is a NATO and US ally, and recieved Coalition Support funds. Many are internally displaced due to conflict in tribal region.

You Indians are the real scavengers, always sniffing blood like hounds. Next time keep your filthy opinions to yourself. How can you be so insensitive?

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive

Anup
“What else could’ve been the logical conclusion of the fanatic & obscure fantasyland of Iqbal”

you are among those people who have not accepted the idea of Pakistan more than six decades after its inception.

You are most insensitive, your language seems you are a cold blooded person. You could make a good murderer or serial killer. I was not even born in 1947, but those who perpetrated killing and killed migrants in the trains during partition were people like you.

I am reliving the creation of Pakistan, how muslims united with chants of;

1. Pakistan ya maut!(Pakistan or death)
2. Le ke rahenge Pakistan bat ke rahe ga Hindustan!
(We will create Pakistan, India will have to divide)

People like you were the fanatics that impelled muslims to demand their own country. Now 60 years later those same people stand united as Pakistanis.

But the good part is, you represent that tiny minority that exists in India that doesnt accept Pakistan from the depth of their hearts and have dreams of Akhand Bharat.
Anup, change before you have to.

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive

Umair,

After reading your posts, may I suggest you to switch to decaf coffee; it may help to calm your nerves down, think coherently and then write some relevant comments.

Nothing personal, just a suggestion.

Posted by Nikhil | Report as abusive

I think Nikhil was wrong in suggesting a decaf for Umair. I my opinion Umair should pick up his AK (its freely available in Pakistan) and empty a magazine. This will help him calm his nerves and help focus on the task ahead.

Posted by Tushar | Report as abusive

I am a Pakistani. I think Mr Obama should tighten the screws on ISI,the agency which has destabilised the country!The US needs to be more forceful like when Bush made that phone call “are you with us or against us”. Obama should do the same!These generals are the biggest cowards I have ever seen and rely on anything illegal one can ever dream about!
Once that is done I think the americans should also call for a sealing of the PAK Afghan border. This will prevent the weapons smuggling and attacks since the movement of goods and people would be stopped. Any movements through it and the drones can do their Job. Lets try this strategy for a few months!
The Pakistani tribes will fall in place.Moreover a lot of the ISI,Pak Military personnel hold dual nationality meaning either of the US or European countries. IF they start revoking their nationality trust me these heretics would do what is the right thing.Otherwise these blood suckers will keep on milking and glorifying themselves while the country eekes off starvation,despondency and suicide attacks!

Posted by Suleman Maniya,Goteborg,Sweden | Report as abusive

Umair
“1. Pakistan ya maut!(Pakistan or death)”

—Congrats! you got both, – wow, you’ll have the cake & ate it too…

Posted by anup | Report as abusive

Suleiman,

I am glad to see that there are Pakistanis who have a better vision. I am not appreciating your views because I am an Indian. There are practical issues that need to be addressed.

The ISI has become worse than some of the drug cartels in Central and South America that literally run the governments from the rear seat. The only difference is that the drug cartels are at least illegal in the law of those countries. Here the ISI is a government organization and it has developed a mind on its own. Infusing the system with religious fanaticism was the worst blunder your country’s military and political leaders did. Now this system has become a monster unto itself. The Western powers knew this all along. They were the ones who let this happen when the Soviets ruled Afghanistan. Now that they are on the opposite side of the fence, they have begun to admit slowly that there are elements inside the ISI that are aiding and tipping the militants inside FATA (Federally administered Terrorist Area?). This means that the truth is even bigger than what they are admitting.

The first thing to be done is build a bridge of trust and friendship with moderate Indians (and there are a high percentage of them). Pakistan’s democratic government should seek India’s help in dismantling its terrorist network that is strangling the nation. After Mumbai attacks, there was a golden chance for Zardari and Gilani to help expedite the investigations and work with India to go after the source of the problem. This would have built tremendous trust and co-operation between the two nations. And Pakistan’s democracy would have become stronger. But the leaders chickened out and parroted what their military/ISI bosses wanted them to do. I don’t blame them. They would have been blown to pieces otherwise. But courage on moments like these help countries come out of the problems they face. Lincoln did that against the odds and today the US is the strongest nation on earth. But the situation did not improve and Lahore cricket attack happened and then the police academy.

It is still not too late to reach out to India and seek their help. Americans are there for their own interests. They do not care if Pakistan burns or disappears. It would be a strategic thing to get India involved and together (clandestinely or otherwise), clean out the ISI and emasculate your military that is holding your country with a dead lock. Military should never be allowed to grow this strong.

Just a friendly suggestion. There is no evil design in this suggestion. I am glad to see sensible Pakistanis. I would talk very differently with them if they reach out to us.

1. Pakistan ya maut!(Pakistan or death)
2. Le ke rahenge Pakistan bat ke rahe ga Hindustan!
(We will create Pakistan, India will have to divide)
-by Umair

Umair: There was/is another one “lad ke liya Pakistan hans ke lenge hindustan”–I can only laugh at it. you have tried and failed.

It is not about accepting Pakistan. Right now if you give Pakistan and trillion dollar to India, India will say NO please. You got the point. The idea of Pakistan was not acceptable to all the Muslims–forget about others.

Plus did you ever thought that all the freedom fighters for one India–not 2 nations. Today I am happy it happened. It is a non-viable–sorry if it hurts.

Most of the Indians think this way and consider Anup and me in majority that way. I hope I am clear

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive

What does this post have to do with India and Partition ?! Indian posters are requested to stay on topic.

The announcement by Obama only has 1 new component, civilian aid to Pakistan. Other portions remain the same.

@What does this post have to do with India and Partition ?! Indian posters are requested to stay on topic.—Indian posters like me are responding.”
- Posted by Aamir Ali

@The announcement by Obama only has 1 new component, civilian aid to Pakistan. Other portions remain the same.”
—Obama said “1.5 billion in direct support to the Pakistani people every year over the next five years — resources that will build schools and roads and hospitals, and strengthen Pakistan’s democracy.”

—So make sure this filthy amount of money is spent for civil purposes-not military– like you habitually do. Curb your urges- Do not buy planes from China, fund Taliban and Jihadis for your own sake. It is the sweat and blood of Americans who are in recession but feeding you–have mercy on those innocents atleast.

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive

@Rajeev

Glad you came back on topic. Indian posters have a bad habit of talking about nonsense.

Americans are in recession because of crooked Wall Street and unnecessary waste of trillion dollars in Iraq. If they volunteer to send some money to Pakistan, that’s their choice.

The problem with civilian project is that unless you have security, they simply become a target and pressure tactic to be used against the govt, such as burning girls schools.

Hence Pakistan also needs to buy guns, tanks and planes from China to deal with threats, be they Taliban or Indians who violate Pakistani airspace.

Aamir Ali the mine sniffer writes: “Glad you came back on topic. Indian posters have a bad habit of talking about nonsense”

Mullahs do not like truth and reason. So sorry if it hurts and sounds like non-sense. So close your ears when you hear them. The ears are on either side of your head. You are closing the ones we call as the nostrils.

“The problem with civilian project is that unless you have security, they simply become a target and pressure tactic to be used against the govt, such as burning girls schools.”

So you admit that no one is safe in the land of the pure! Civilian projects cannot happen because they become targets. Wow! I wonder if anyone goes to work in your country. Or they all must be looking at the sky for an American plane to air-drop some money. Ch ch ch..

“Hence Pakistan also needs to buy guns, tanks and planes from China to deal with threats, be they Taliban or Indians who violate Pakistani airspace”

So all you need the money for is to buy tanks, guns, planes from China. That’s all. That’s simple. Before you go to bed, brush your teeth, say your prayers and write a wish list for Santa Clauss. Leave a glass of milk and cookies. In due course, a cruise missile will deliver them right into your house. Merry Christmas!

By the way, those who violate your air space are the drones from Uncle Sam. Indians are busy with a democratic election. And we have other things to worry about.

Obama certainly needs to have a global policy on terror, however according to my view, the situation would be better handled if the pak govt. handles & tackles this alone.

I think they should take this as an internal matter…

To Aamir Ali, who wrote…

“Americans are in recession because of crooked Wall Street and unnecessary waste of trillion dollars in Iraq. If they volunteer to send some money to Pakistan, that’s their choice.”

- and then had the nerve to write…

“Hence Pakistan also needs to buy guns, tanks and planes from China to deal with threats, be they Taliban or Indians who violate Pakistani airspace.”

- I am horrified to hear you say these statements in the same post (at least have the sense to offend separate nations in separate posts, but thank you for your transparency and honesty). I am a peaceful sort of guy and I don’t like to see anyone suffer, but the mentality that spending my taxes to buy Chinese arms and equipment is acceptable, is in fact anything but acceptable. Especially when we give it for CIVILIAN purposes. Play time is over. Perhaps we need to stop saying Pakistan, and start saying Pak Military when speaking of the gov’t there. It is obvious that the ISI is actually a state within a state. But who is the state? By the way, please read the news about cheap Chinese crap before you buy their guns. They have “safety” issues, short and long term. Please be a friend to your people. They cannot eat bullets. I would tell you to ask a North Korean citizen about this, but they can’t tell you. Stop before it is too late, please.

I love you.
Peace.

Posted by Patrick | Report as abusive

Patrick
why is the ISI being made escapegoat for coalition failures in Afghanistan? You must know even American officials accept the fact that ISI has nabbed the most number of Al-Qaeda fugitives to the US than any other intelligence agency.

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive

@Rajeev
Glad you came back on topic. Indian posters have a bad habit of talking about nonsense.
- Posted by Aamir Ali
–With your analysis as wild as Mehsud as an Indian agent, who is talking non-sense. B. Mehsud is volunteering for Pakistan against India–Did I hear anything from Pakistan? Keeping quiet for Mehsud offer is taken as yes. Why is that Pakistan army is so hand in glove with terrorists–Pak Army-LeT in Kargil and now with Taliban.

@Americans are in recession because of crooked Wall Street and unnecessary waste of trillion dollars in Iraq. If they volunteer to send some money to Pakistan, that’s their choice.
-True about recession. But they are feeding you any way. You also have no choice that’s why you devise ways to invite aid and spend on promoting, rather than stopping terrorism. You are running towards the cliff and now along it and unless you turn, you will fall.

@The problem with civilian project is that unless you have security, they simply become a target and pressure tactic to be used against the govt, such as burning girls schools.
Hence Pakistan also needs to buy guns, tanks and planes from China to deal with threats, be they Taliban or Indians who violate Pakistani airspace.”"
–Thanks for the confession. Money is not for your protection against India but against terrorism and protecting civilian projects does not need planes and tanks, or does it? So as I said as responsible citizen ask your govt to spend the money against not for terrorism. Get your army guys trained from The Counter Insurgency and Jungle Warfare School, Mizoram, India. US guys go there. That will be better use of the money. We were after all one, before Pak divide into 2 and now….

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive

Rajeev
“Get your army guys trained from The Counter Insurgency and Jungle Warfare School, Mizoram, India.”

Man i really laughed on this one,
Indian Army Jungle warfare training academy
Tarzan Brigade

I watched “Tango-Charlie” your guys jungles are really messed up man. I would hate to be roasted by some bodo or ULFA millitants.

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive

@Rajeev

Since you rehashed and re-worded your old post, I will rehash and re-word my old answer:

1. A statement by Baitullah Mehsud during Indo-Pak crisis shows that he a clever commander with regard to his constituency. In reality he has been taking money and arms from Afghanistan and committing violence inside Pakistan. The six Indian consulates in Afghanistan play a major role in this regard.

2. Americans voluntarily offer military and civilian aid to Pakistan since 2001. Between 1989 and 2001 they offered nothing. So its about what Americans want.

3. Please read before commenting. Civilian projects such as schools, bridges, roads, etc. can be targets for terrorists and foreign powers. We noted how Indian media was talking about bombing Skardu bridge during recent Mumbai crisis. Thats why you need all sorts of weaponry to safeguard against all sorts of threats.

Additionally we are not interested in your garbage school in Mizoram, whose graduates can’t stamp out insurgencies going on for 20+ years in various parts of India.

@Umair, Aamir Ali

You Paki’s talk a really tough game when it comes to India ,the U.S. and politics. When it comes to religious terrorism, you Pakis are complacent, mute and on many levels, to outsiders in Pakistan, quietly sympathize with Al-Qaeda and the Taliban.

The world has not seen one Pakistani hold a protest sign against the Extremist Islamic Organizations in Pakistan.

Quit feeding us dung and vomit as you explain away the LeT, JuD as social organizations helping orphans and old people, just stop it, the world is tired of BS.

No citizens of Pakistan have changed their hearts against Extremist Islam, that same extremist Islam, which just killed 20 in Lahore and many more to come.

When will the average Pakistani face extremist militant Islam head-on and do the right thing?

The world generally does not believe average Pakistani’s care to fight extremist Islam, even after losing family members, police, army people and many innocents.

How many Pakistani’s must die? How many children are Pakistani’s willing to sacrifice to Militant Islam to that it may pervert their minds to do Terrorism on Pakistan and kill their fellow muslims?

Is this what Pakistan has become? afraid, complacent, sympathetic to terrorists and still blaming the killings on non-muslims, even after muslims themselves pull the trigger or suicide vest and are even caught in most cases?

On a more delightful note, I was just watching BBC, and India is the only country on the Earth, which is going to have a positive economic growth, while the World Economy is to retract and go backwards.

Pakistan in a million years, will never achieve what India has and will for the future, if it carries on, in its present course.

Pakistan’s current situation is the fault of the collective actions and thoughts of its citizens.

Just remember, I have yet to see mass upheaval and protests against Extremist Islam in Pakistan. We have yet to see anything even remotely resembling this. I doubt we will from a country of Extremist Islam Cowards and Extremist Islam Sympathizers. Please start the anti-extremist Islam movement in your Mosques, show leadership.

God Bless Mukhtara Mai and Suleman Maniya,Goteborg,Sweden

Posted by Global Watcher | Report as abusive

Global watcher
Dont you lecture us Pakistanis on human rights morality and demacracy while your great incredible India has 25 % of population consisting of Dalit low caste hindus living a miserable life in poverty, while you are still fighting hunger, TB and AIDS rampant in India like Sub-Saharan Africa.
Someone really need to show you the mirror. and yes, the BBC never reported Indian presence in G20 summit in London, dont tell me India registeringn strong economic growth.

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive

And yeah I forgot to shed some light on millitant hinduism, those goons VHP, RSS, BJP, Bajrang Dal and Shiv Sena who burnt Australian missionaries, killed christians in Orrissa, massacred muslims in Gujrat. Would yo ulike to come up with some explanantion of the communal strife that India is known internationally? If India is a secular country, why is it refered to sometimes as Hindustan? (Land of the hindus).
Rise up against millitant hinduism Global watcher, it will dent image as a modern progressive country.

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive

http://www.ispr.gov.pk/front/main.asp?o= t-article&id=7

Lineage of Extremism in Pakistani Society

A must read.

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive

@I watched “Tango-Charlie” your guys jungles are really messed up man. I would hate to be roasted by some bodo or ULFA millitants.

Let us refresh your memory as a sortie: “Ask your Pakistani army of 1965 and Gem Niazi of 1971—they all know Indian Army is too hot to handle.” OVER.
Now about counterinsurgency training, I am talking about real life not movies—you are too absorbed with Indian movies. Just get your guys trained and kill the monster babies you created in Af-pak-oops-Pak-Af. Don’t worry about NE militants—it takes an Indian to kill certain terrorists. If you need more information about CIJWS—check with Aamir—he has been there since he found the school garbage.
Sorry Umair: I did not know that I am talking to someone who tarzan jumps and monkey crawl for buying milk across the street as a routine.

Aamir: Taliban is giving you free poppy for hallucination into fabricating conspiracy theory. Was it hand-delivered by Mehsud to check the effect?

And both of you how many such training schools Pakistan has or any army Unit fit for training? Reports said ZERO, so as a neighbor was concerned. We vote for your IMF money and will support you for wiping out the terrorism also. I just saw pathetic state of security of Pakistan—terrorist walking away from the middle of the cities after grilling and swallowing 6 Paki police guys and another attack the same month, and the classic kneel down by your army in SWAT. Felt you need guerilla warfare tarining and we have and were one bros—just old bonds made me suggest this to you.

Motto of CIJWS is “fight the guerrilla as a guerrilla”.
Motto of Pak Army: Kneel down to Taliban or other guerilla, better on all fours.

The Counter Insurgency Jungle Warfare School (CIJWS) is Indian Army chief Field Marshal S.H.F.J. Sam Manekshaw’s idea. CIJWS was hailed as, “the most amazing military training facility anywhere,” by a U.S. Green Beret sent to the school for a training program that included urban terrorism. CIJWS has emerged as a primer anti-terrorism training institute since its official establishment in 1970, and has trained over 159,000 soldiers, including 1,500 soldiers from 26 countries as diverse as US, Sri Lanka, Uzbekistan, Nepal Malaysia, Indonesia. Chinese are expected soon as are many from other parts of the world. Pakistani Army in 1971 had the first hand experience of the trainees of the school. Now these are all facts.
This is open for any crap (discussion is misfit here) from either of you.

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive

@Umair, while the Indians provide valid links, you provide links to more ISI and Pak propaganda, you like to pass off as valid info.

Quite laughable.

Posted by Global Watcher | Report as abusive

Umair wrote:
@I watched “Tango-Charlie” your guys jungles are really messed up man. I would hate to be roasted by some bodo or ULFA millitants.

So you judge an army from their movies ?

You hate to get roasted by ULFA, you sure will love to get beheaded by Talibans for wearing a salwar not hiking above ankles.

You guys have lost your sanity.

Posted by punjabiyaar | Report as abusive

Umair/ Aamir,

You come from the land where the Police/ Military after winning a battel FIRE IN THE AIR to express happiness…. really cool… most professional forces do not do this gesture. This goes to show how closely you guys are linked to Talibans….

After all Taliban also pledged its support to Pakistan when they faced a military strike from India. So the world know who trains who in Pakistan.

Posted by Tushar | Report as abusive

Look Rajeev
Dont take it too seriously, I was trying to be humurous with your jungle warfare comment.

It should be a matter of honour for you guys if you have such a training school in your country. Just as we Pakistanis are damn proud of our daring SSG-Special Services Group officers.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_gb8Jbh3 x8

Pakistan army’s elite SSG commandos marching on 23rd march parade.

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive

Look Rajeev
Dont take it too seriously, I was trying to be humurous with your jungle warfare comment.
-posted by Umair:

Umair: I can let the humor fly against The movie but not the serious stuff- so was just entertaining it appropriately.

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive

@Tushar

Our police did a better job in defeating terrorists in a few hours than your commandos did in defeating some teenagers in 3 days.

@Tushar
Our police did a better job in defeating terrorists in a few hours than your commandos did in defeating some teenagers in 3 days.
- Posted by Aamir Ali

–”defeating terrorists”—-and what’s your defnition of the defeat—that they walked away in broad day light.

Congratulations for defeating the terrorists!!! you are the future of Pakistan–it was a joke.

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive

@Rajeev

Which terrorist from the Police academy walked away ? Most of them were killed and some captured in a few hours.

In contrast your bigshot commandos spent 3 days fighting terrorists in Mumbai and ultimately triumphed because of their exhaustion.