Are the Pakistan Taliban charting an independent course?

March 31, 2009

For some weeks now there have been persistent reports about Taliban leader Mullah Omar, asking fighters in the Pakistani Taliban to stop carrying out attacks there and instead focus on Afghanistan where Western forces are being bolstered.

The reclusive one-eyed leader had in December sent emissaries to ask leaders of the Pakistani Taliban to settle their differences, scale down activities in Pakistan and help mount a spring offensive against the build-up of U.S. forces in Afghanistan, a report in the New York Times said as recently as last week.

But the attacks haven’t stopped. If anything they have become even more brazen, with the Sri Lankan cricket team attacked in Lahore earlier this month and then Monday’s rampage through a police academy, again in Lahore. Between these two major attacks,  there has a been suicide bombing in a mosque in the northwest near the Afghan border, a car bombing outside Peshawar and a blast in Rawalpindi, turning March into one of the bloodiest months in recent times.

And on Tuesday, Pakistani Taliban leader, Baitullah Mehsud, in a rather rare move, claimed responsibiity for the storming of the police training centre in Lahore, destroying whatever was left of Mullah Omar’s reported calls for cooling off in Pakistan.

Is Mehsud going off-message ? Or is he setting another course?

Mehsud told a Reuters reporter that the attack on the police academy was to avenge U.S. missile strikes by unmanned aircraft. These Predator drone raids have been focused on the Federally Administered Tribal Areas (FATA) including South Waziristan, his base.  According to U.S. army officials these attacks have taken a toll, accounting for a significant  number of senior al Qaeda figures.

Mehsud has threatened more attacks, including in Washington which last week announced a $5 million reward for information leading to his location or arrest. So what really is behind the stepped up attacks inside Pakistan? Are the Pakistani Taliban, an off-spring of the Afghan Taliban, falling instead into an ever deeper thrall of al Qaeda? 

By most assessments, Al Qaeda is encouraging a Taliban  insurgency in Pakistani tribal lands bordering Afghanistan, and  seeking to destabilise the Muslim nation of 170 million people.  But these attacks have taken place in Lahore deep in Punjab, which is really the heart of the Pakistani establishment.

And they come just as U.S. President Barack Obama has made Pakistan the central front in his war on Islamist militancy in the region, prompting some to wonder if the militants’ game plan is to draw the U.S. deeper into Pakistan.

Monday’s attack in the Punjab capital should prompt concern about the internal stability of Pakistan, writes Nathan Hodge in Danger Room, pointing out it came less than a month after the Sri Lankan cricket team was attacked in the same city.

“While Pakistani forces marked the recapture of the facility with celebratory gunfire, a serious question looms: Could the United States become more directly embroiled in Pakistan’s internal affairs?”

Obama told an interviewer over the weekend that there were no plans to deploy combat troops inside Pakistan in the hunt for al Qaeda.

U.S. strategy in Pakistan is supposed to centre on a significant boost in civilian aid, along with continued military assistance and the occasional U.S. drone attack. “But when you say you’re going after al Qaeda and its allies in the region, you are potentially expanding the roster of militant groups on the “to do” list,” Hodge says.

[Photos of police with a suspected militant involved in Lahore police centre attack and an Afghan refugee protester outside a conference on Afghanistan at The Hague]

Comments

Recent attack on plice training center in lahore is another staged drama..its really laughable that all terrorists who got in to the bulidings blew them selves up..with out harming any hostages !! and what a brilliant way to take revenge for killings of all those senior taliban leader by drones…even after 24hrs after the drama ended..nobody really seems to know how many terrorists were attacked..how many of them were killed and how many of them escaped !!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/79 73901.stm

Posted by Anitha | Report as abusive
 

Talaban! Who are Talabans? Why they are Talaban? How they become Talaban? I think, we fail to ask these questions to ourselves. We are ready to blame and criticize and making headlines. If these are our intention than there is no solutions. But, if we ask these questions to ourselves and start to learn their behavior, situations, motive, objective, and philosophy than it will lead us to find a solution. Otherwise, we have to catch the fish in unclear watter and waste our time and bait.

 

Historically Christian and Muslim faiths have their roots in Judaism,
so at their core concepts about the soul, creation and God are all the same.

I would like to address certain linguistic and philosophical similarities common to both Jews and Hindus, which may open up a broader discussion.

1. Names of God,
a. The most holy of all names of God for a Jew is KNA or KANA, Rabbi’s have slapped my face when I have said this name out loud.

This is considered to be the most intimate name for God in the Old Testament. Where it is translated, “I am a jealous God, have no other gods before you”, the literal Hebrew translation is, “My name is EL KNA, have no other gods before you.”

This name expands to KRE ShTN as Rabbi Aryeh Kapln,in Meditation and the Kabbalah explains
“On Monday, you must intertwine the associated name “KRE ShTN”"

b, From a Vedic (Hindu) view point, Kana is also an affectionate name of Krishna, The pronunciation used above “KRE ShTN” is very similar to the way south Indians pronounce Krishna.

2. Abraham and Brahma: Very few know that there are two Abrahams in Jewish philosophy
a. There is a description of how the universe was in chaos until Abraham appeared. It is said, “Over the whole, there hovered Tohu (chaos) and as long as Tohu dominated,the whole world was not in being or existence. When did that key open the gates and make the world fruitful?
It was when Abraham appeared.” [Genesis II 4] As explained in the introduction to the Zohar The Soncino Press LTD–London New York

There is also this reference one needs to ponder It is said, “Angels are supposed to have no back and four faces, so always to be able to behold God.”
[Talmud, cf. Ezek i. 6]

b. In the First Canto of the Srimad-Bhagavatam, there is a long description of how Brahma created the planets, stars etc. It is well known that the Brahma of this universe has 4 heads.

3. DEMIGODS AND ANGELS have the same function in both trations.
a. The Midrash teaches, “There is no blade of grass that does not have a constellation (Mazal) over it, telling it to grow.” [Sefer Yetzirah 4.6]
“As commentaries explain, ‘God’s providence works through the angels, but the angels, in turn, work through the stars and planets. As some authorities put it, the angels are, in a sense, like souls to the stars. Thus, for example, some sources speak of the stars as having intelligence, but the commentaries note that this is actually speaking of the angels that are associated with them.’” [Sefer Yetrzirah 4.6]

b. The Vedic conception is that there are many specially empowered demigods who help manage the affairs of the universe including the planets of our solar system.
The controlling demigods, although not eternal them selves, function within various posts that exist as long as the universe exists. For example, one of the principle demigods is Lord Indra. Indra is the name of the post, but the particular demigod who occupies that post during a given period has his own personal name. Just like President of the United States is a post, but there have been many presidents throughout history.

4. Durga in the Bible?
a. “He summoned to issue from the side of Darkness a kind of female moon, which rules over the night, and is associated with Adonai, the Lord of all the earth. In his days, the moon was magnified and reached her fullness. A thousand mountains rose before her, and she blew them away with a puff. A thousand mighty rivers flowed before her, and she swallowed them at a draught. Her nails reached out in a thousand and seventy directions and her hands in twenty-four thousand, so that nothing could escape her. Thousands of bucklers clung to her hair. From between her feet went forth a youth who stretched from one end of the world to the other with sixty clubs of fire…” [Zohar]

b. The Vedas describe the ghastly form of Goddess Kali, another name for the Goddess Durga. There is a reference of Goddess Kali in the Srimad-Bhagavatam in the history of Jada Bharata, when she manifested herself to protect him. It is stated, “Intolerant of the offenses committed, the infuriated goddess Kali flashed her eyes and displayed her fierce, curved teeth. Her reddish eyes glowed, and she displayed her fearsome features. She assumed a frightening body, as if she were prepared to destroy the entire creation. Leaping violently from the altar, she
immediately decapitated all the rogues and thieves with the very sword with which they had intended to kill Jada Bharata. She then began to drink the hot blood that flowed from the necks of the beheaded rogues and thieves, as if this blood were liquor.

5. (BRAHMAN) EFFULGENCE
a. “The Most Recondite is beyond cognition, but reveals of Himself a tenuous and veiled brightness shining only along a narrow path which extends from Him, and this is the brightness that irradiates all. This is the starting point of all esoteric mysteries, itself being unknowable.” [Zohar IV 146b]

b. The Absolute Truth is expressed as Brahman, Paramatma, and Bhagavän.” [Srimad Bhagavatam.1.2.11] Brahman refers to the impersonal all-pervasive spirit.

That is the same as the brahmajyoti, the effulgence of the Lord.

6. METATRON AND MAHA-VISHNU
a. It is said that a personality named Metatron cooperates with God to teach the young. While God devotes the last three hours of the day to this work, Metatron is in charge during the remainder of the day. (A.Z. 3b) [Everyman's Talmud, II, III] Regarding the revolving sword or flaming sword that revolves, it is said “the manner in which the sword rotates depends on the readiness of the individual attempting to enter. If he is worthy, it becomes the mirror through which he perceives, while if he is not worthy, he is burned out and cut off by the fire of this sword. The one who oversees the sword, preventing the unworthy from entering, is the angel Metatron.” [Meditation and Kabbalah p 80 Chapter 4, Teachings of Rabbi Abraham Abulafia]
“Metatron is therefore not a proper name at all but a designation for the whole category of celestial powers performing a mission.”
[Origins of the Kabbalah, III, 6]

b. In the creative process,it is from Maha-Vishnu that all of the universes emanate, Sudarshan Cakra (flaming sword that revolves) controlled by Visnu similarly punishes and grants liberation. “Without illumination,nothing can be seen, especially in this material world.

The illumination in this world emanates from the effulgence of Sudarshan, the original vision of the Supreme Personality of Godhead.
The illuminating principles of the sun, the moon and fire emanate from Sudarshan.
Similarly, illumination by knowledge also comes from Sudarshan.” [Srimad Bhag. 9.5.7, Purport]
Also there is a series of Visnu expansions each with a chakra.

7. THE LORD IN THE HEART
a. When the soul is about to descend to this world, it first goes down to the terrestrial Garden of Eden and sees there the glory of the souls of the righteous, and then goes down to Gehinnom and sees the wicked who cry “Woe, woe”, and find no compassion. That holy form (God) stands by him until he emerges into the world, after which it keeps him company and grows up with him.” [The Zohar 43b] [KI TAZRIA (LEVITICUS)]

b. In the Bhagavad-gita “Yet in this body there is another, a transcendental enjoyer, who is the Lord, the supreme proprietor, who exists as the overseer and permitter, and who is known as the Supersoul, Paramatma.” [Bg. 13.23]

8. GURU AND RABBI
a. In Judaism, knowledge is also passed from the rabbi to his students, but not everyone is qualified to become a student. “As a matter of law, the sages state that these mysteries ‘cannot even be taught to a single individual, unless he is wise enough to understand with his own knowledge.’ Even in such a case, the complete tradition was only given over to the head of the group, and he would then only instruct those whom he saw fit. Only individuals
possessing the highest qualities of scholarship and piety would be admitted to the circle of initiates.” [Introduction to the Bahir, Rabbi Aryeh Kaplan]
It is also stated that “One who reaches the highest level cannot reveal it to anyone. All he can do is give over the keys, so that the enlightened individual
can open the gates which are sealed to exclude the unworthy.”
[Meditation and Kabbalah, p 79]

b. In Vedic culture, although a guru would speak to whoever wanted to learn the Vedic science, he was traditionally very selective whom he would initiate as his disciple. He would only accept those persons who qualified themselves by humble submission and service. Lord Krishna states in the Bhagavad-gita, “Just try to learn the truth by approaching a spiritual master, inquire from him submissively and render service unto him. The self-realized soul can impart knowledge unto you because he has seen the truth.”

9. VEDIC AND JEWISH CALENDARS
a. The current Hebrew year is 5767. In this calendar, the year in which Adam was created is counted as year one. If we then count the Biblical genealogies from the time of Adam, we find that over 5,000 years have elapsed since the time he was formed. However, the Kabbalists clearly say that other human beings existed before Adam, and this is even supported in scripture [Drush Or HaChaim] The fifth cycle was the one that brought life, and this took
place around two and a half billion years ago. Around 974 generations before Adam, or some 25,000 years ago, man developed all of the physical and mental capabilities that we possess today…but he still lacked the divine soul that would make him a spiritual being. God then created Adam, the first true human being with a soul, ‘and He blew in his nostrils a soul of life’. [Genesis 2.7] [Sefer Yetzirah 4.15]

b. The Vedic calendar states that Kali-yuga lasts 432,000 years, out of which we have passed about 5,000 years.

10.The Ecstasy of Chanting The Names Of God
a. People who have dedicated their lives to the service of God may at times feel unlimited joy or ecstasy while engaged in prayer. It is said, “Permute the letters back and forth, and in this manner, you will reach the first level. As a result of the activity and your concentration on the letters, your mind will become bound to them. The hairs on your head will stand on end and tremble. Your lifeblood is in your heart, and regarding this it is written,
“the blood is the soul” [Deuteronomy 12:23]. It is likewise written, “The blood in the soul will atone” [Leviticus 17:11]. This blood within you will begin to vibrate because of the permutations that loosen it. Your entire body will then begin to tremble, and all your limbs will be seized with shuddering. You will experience the terror of God and will be enveloped with fear of Him. You will then feel as if an additional spirit is within you, arousing you and
strengthening you, passing through your entire body and giving you leisure. It will seem as you have been anointed with perfumed oil, from head to foot. You will rejoice and have great pleasure. You will experience ecstasy and trembling–ecstasy for the soul, and trembling for the body.
[Meditation and Kabbalah, Treasury of the Hidden Eden p85-86]

b. The stage of bhava, love of God, is manifested by eight transcendental symptoms, namely inertness, perspiration, standing of hairs on end, failing in the voice, trembling, paleness of the body, tears in the eyes, and finally trance. [Srimad Bhag. 2:3:24 Purport]

11. GOD’S BEAUTY
a.The Jewish scriptures describe a vision of God. “His head is a treasure of fine gold. His locks are hanging, black like the raven.” In both Talmudic and Kabbalistic traditions, one of the interpretations is that it relates to a vision of God; “when He is visualized in battle, He is seen as a young man with black hair.” [Sefer Yetzirah Ch 6.1]

b.The Vedas refer to the form of the Lord. In the Srimad-Bhagavatam it is stated, “the Lord is super excellently beautiful on account of His open and merciful smile and His sidelong glance upon His devotees. His black hair is curly, and His garments, waving in the wind, appear like flying saffron pollen from lotus flowers. His glittering earrings, shining helmet, bangles, garland, ankle bells, waist belt and various other bodily ornaments
combine with the conch shell, disc, club, and lotus flower to increase the natural beauty of the Kaustubha pearl on His chest.” [Srimad Bhag. 2.24.47-48]

 

“Monday’s attack in the Punjab capital should prompt concern about the internal stability of Pakistan, writes Nathan Hodge in Danger Room, pointing out it came less than a month after the Sri Lankan cricket team was attacked in the same city.”

Sanjeev, I want to point out two developments today, President Zardari as of now have arrived in Turkey to take part in tri-party talks hosted by President Abdullah Gul and Afghan President Hamid Karzai.
Secondly, Chief Minister of Punjab Shahbaz Sharif and his party’s provincial government has been restored in Punjab, stabilizing the province in particular and Pakistan in general. Mr. Shahbaz is a very popular and capable man, he has worked before for years to make improvements in governance in the province serving as chief minister. The bureaucracy and establishment know Mr. Shahbaz has a tough and uncompromising figure and he does not tolerate corruption and carelessness. I am sure he will tighten the screws. Despite the attack on Police academy yesterday the Karachi stock exchange closed at 100 points up. Interior minister Rehman Malik yesterday stated that outsiders must not view Pakistan helpless amid all this chaos, the government is dealing with terrorists with an iron hand.

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive
 

The President expressed his profound respect for the Pakistani people and their history, and pledged that the United States would do all it could to help Pakistan fight against the terrorists who have so often attempted to destabilize the country, including with the assassination of Benazir Bhutto.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/09/03/27/ A-New-Strategy-for-Afghanistan-and-Pakis tan/

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive
 

I think the Taliban has a master plan of taking over Pakistan. They may not take the entire country. Instead they will focus on the power centers in Islamabad and Lahore areas. The Pakistani military will surrender without any issues if Taliban shows upper hand. The military and their ISI are already filled in with elements sympathetic to the Taliban. The culture of the region is to survive by switching sides with the mightiest and this has been deeply ingrained in these people. Look at how Musharraf jumped ship when the Americans showed up in 2001. Might is right. Right now, the Taliban is on the ascendancy.

The Taliban knows that the US has pledged not to enter into Pakistan, at least for now. So if it can expand its base inside Pakistan, it doesn’t have to hide so much in those hills of the FATA. With a military to go with, it can make itself a formidable entity. By taking over Pakistan, it would make it easier to re-enter Afghanistan and establish a Pashtun-Taliban regime. The Islamic brothers will jump ship in no time.

Al Qaeda can emerge again from the dark. So Taliban is beginning to test the strength of the mainland by attacking on specific targets. They want to make their presence felt by shutting down things that are dear to the people – cricket is a starting point. No lawyers rose up against that. Now the police academy. They might target the Chief Justice too. Pakistan really is at the cross roads now. They have to make a decision on how they should go – fight the Taliban head on or surrender to them for quick justice as some people wrote when Taliban took over Swat valley.

Taliban will try to isolate Balochistan now where it has more support. So Islamabad will be surrounded from different sides.

If the Taliban expands into Pakistan, the US might be forced to change its strategy and attack directly inside Pakistan.

 

Sanjeev:

1. What made you ask this:
“Are the Pakistani Taliban, an off-spring of the Afghan Taliban, falling instead into an ever deeper thrall of al Qaeda?”

2. is Mehsud part of the Taliban that made peace deal?

This attack in Lahore means Taliban cannot be restricted to SWAT only in terms of their terrorist designs–I wonder what else Pakistanis call Taliban? This brazen attack and taking the blame later proves that peace deal was not by any margin a strategic deal with Pakistan army. I just cannot imagine that these guys are up into Lahore spreading terror at will and taking the blame–just shows the network support groups along this area and in the city of Lahore.—and above SADLY a section of the society supporting them indirectly. We know already how SL team attackers walked away. This one is an icing on the cake or salt to the wounds. But which govt worth its salt will not rise up to this terrorism?

And then there are people including “Shahin” who has such a kind heart that she is into the genesis of the problem (ask ISI)–yes sure do it but ask yourself a reverse question: “can a person out of animosity or revenge become this inhuman to behead people, kill the innocents, shut the schools—these are same people?” Shahin: Taliban was existing before the arrival of US with help of S. Arabia and Al-qaida were doing all the athletic activities in Afghanistan. Look at the development they did in Afghanistan—not even an effort—sure public flogging is their expertise. US in or out they will continue with their plans. And tell me this: what makes them blow away Budhha statue and other religious structures?

I will love to hear what you say.

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive
 

Sanjiv,

To answer your question; no, the Pakistani Taliban are not charting an independent course. It could be another attempt to malign the civilian government. Many foreign diplomats, US/NATO generals, foreign policy scholars have reiterated the fact that there are volumes of evidences of the links between the ISI and the Taliban. The lives of high profile Taliban are secured by the ISI by passing tip offs of incoming US drone attacks.

Taliban are Pakistan’s strategic assets. Pakistan will not let it go. Betullah Mehsud had declared to fight with the Pakistan army if India attacked in response to the Mumbai terrorist attacks. Who knows how many more terrorists are on the payroll of the Pakistan army and the notorious ISI?

Posted by Nikhil | Report as abusive
 

[Photos of police with a suspected militant involved in Lahore police centre attack ]

—overpowered & captured while on nature’s call (poor guy still holding on to his salwar)

Posted by anup | Report as abusive
 

Official confusion over Lahore siege
“The latest buzz in Lahore is that recent attacks in the city are part of the ground work being done by the “powers that be” – a veiled reference to the military – to depose President Asif Zardari, who they view as too eager to cooperate with the West in eliminating the Taleban.”

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/79 73901.stm

—Seems the western media is atlast tired of obfuscating the Pakistani lies…they’ve for a change started stating facts.

Posted by anup | Report as abusive
 

“Obama told an interviewer over the weekend that there were no plans to deploy combat troops inside Pakistan in the hunt for al Qaeda.”

—What he meant was that there’s no need of sending the combat troops inside Pakistan to ‘be hunted’ by the Al-Queda… they are safe in their heavily fortified bases in Afghanistan under surveillance & the security from the Taliban.

Posted by anup | Report as abusive
 

Paki does not want to defeat the Taliban.
It would seem ISI has contacts with Mula Omar,
but he can’t control the Taliban in Paki.

Some how ISI views it in Paki’s interests
to keep the Taliban alive.
http://warintel.blogspot.com/2009/03/bew are-those-treacherous-afpaks.html

Paki cannot defeat the Taliban
http://warintel.blogspot.com/2009/03/pak istan-cannot-win-against-taliban.html

Gerald
Anthropologist

 

The Taliban have always been a 100 % owned and controlled subsidiary of
a large faction inside ISI; as is typical in such cases, they have now turned on
their Pakistani masters, just as the Tamil Tigers and the radical Sikh movements turned
against Indian intelligence. They did absolutely nothing constructive during the
years they ruled Afghanistan, and they offer the same kind of misrule to any
parts of Pakistan they control: no secular schools, no modern medical care, no
justice, nothing but genocidal attacks on all ethnic groups (Hazaras, Tajiks, etc.) and religious groups (Shi’as, Sufis, moderate Sunni Moslems) they disapprove of. The
sooner they are eradicated, the better for all, except for the wealthy Saudis who
bankroll them and the global Wahhabi/Salafi crusade.

Posted by Rob Schultheis | Report as abusive
 

Mehsuds Taliban, with its brazen Lahore attack, appears to be working in tandem with Al Qaida as it has explicitly made anti-American demands. Appeasements to Taliban by the Pak govt. will continue so long as the public opinion in other parts of pak does not demand any change. If Punjab and Sindh provinces look the other way to let the fundamentalists take over governance of west, things will remain quieter a bit. Then its left to Afghan and US allies to face the resistance from inside afpak. Pak govt. has no resolve to confront the Taliban head on; the army and ISI are neck deep involved with the terrorist groups. Their hitherto strategic assets (Taliban) became their masters now. The troika of army, ISI and terrorist groups will further weaken the civilian rule and its economy will more and more get dependent on aid. A weak pak is not in the interest of india, afghan or west as india said all along. The paks antiindian groups work overtime to cause mischief in india. Antiwestern activities get a new thrust as well. Solution is difficult.

Let the pressure on these groups continue and everyone including US, Pak, Afghan, Iran, Saudi, India china, Russia and others work collectively against the terrorist/ fundamentalist groups. It is a long war of modern era, end of which, unfortunately, is not in near sight.

 

Umair and other Paks

given the grim situation pak is in, its not just US, but every nation wants to help pak get out of this quagmire. It is up to pak people as to how they can face the various anti state groups. India would like to have a peaceful pak with stable economy as its neighbor which will translate into better trade across the border.

 

Azaddp I disagree with you on Pakistan being in a grim situation, a strategically important country is simply facing multiple challenges. That is the fact, rest is all talk.

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive
 

My advice to the people of Pakistans: If you have to be an ally of the Americans, ally with them for peace not for war. If it is an alliance for peace with your brothers…not an alliance for war on your brothers. The people of the world want peace and so do the Pakistanis. You have the means not the Americans to make peace in your country. If you tow the American coat tails, you will be dragged deeper and deeper into a war that is engulfing you. You should have the courage to dictate or at least influence the terms of engagement.

Posted by Salman | Report as abusive
 

Umair,
Please stop trying to tell us commentators that Pakistan is just going through a series of challenges. These are not the views of your fellow compatriots.

These comments below are from article ‘Terrorists Hit Lahore, 25+ Dead, 100 Injured’ on ALL THINGS PAKISTAN:

I think we should start looking within ourselves and stay away from silly games about outside hands.

“Searching for “outside hand” is again like burying our heads in sand. Folks, it is our sins that are visiting us.” I always wondered how educated Pakistanis could even believe in such loopy conspiracy theories. Allegations that the jihadis and the Indians are teaming up sound silly. Of course no conspiracy theory is complete without bringing the Jews in.

“How come no ones calling for a long march on protesting these grotesque actions? Why people are not coming out? Why political parties are not rallying their supporters?”
Unfortunately Pakistani people will come out in large numbers to protest “cartoons” in European media, Israeli action in Gaza or something remotely connected to domestic tragedies.
I am sorry for loss of life near Lahore.

What I was saying that specially those like Imran and Nawaz who have a soft corner for Taliban but they and their progeny enjoys a levish western life are “hypocrate” of extreme kinds. These poeple are willing to give half of Pakistan to Taliban but can they live under Taliban for a a day with their familes?

The BBC is reporting that Baitullah Mehsud of TTP has claimed responsibility for the attacks.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/79 73540.stm
Meanwhile, Pakistani officials continue to display a dangerous level of incompetence and nonchalance, making contradictory and off-the-cuff remarks about what transpired at the Academy, giving rise to all kinds of conspiracy theories.

Posted by bulletfish | Report as abusive
 

William Glick

—Commendable work, after all – ‘All roads lead to Rome – accept my heartiest appreciation for your noble undertaking… may your time be just round the corner.

Posted by anup | Report as abusive
 

Reuters’ Blog “Pakistan – Now or Never” – A lopsided commentary on Pakistan
Reuters is a very reputable organisation but when I read through the above mentioned blog which is an ongoing commentary on the events in Pakistan, I was forced to change my opinion. This blog is the most unbalanced view an organisation like Reuters can put forward and I would like to ask its administrators to look at the way it is being conducted.
1. The blog contributions on this blog are mainly made by Indian authors and keeping India Pakistan relations in mind, it is a given that this blog is extremely biased against Pakistan

2. There are very few people who make comments on articles who are not Indian, the main contributors to this blogs comments are Anitha, Anup, Sanjeev, Rajiv and some other Indians who naturally have nothing fair to say about Pakistan. No matter what the topic of the blog is, these guys talk about ISI, End of Pakistan, Failed State, Rogue State and expressions of similar nature.

3. ‘Pakistan – Now or Never, apart from being a tool for Indian propaganda must pay some attention to the facts as well as if this was a blog by an Indian organisation, I would not have any problems with its Indian rooted propaganda but Reuters is supposed to be neutral.

Posted by David Jones | Report as abusive
 

I am a Pakistani national and have to say umair lives in a fools paradise. If Rahman Malik says things are getting better ask him tp set aside his more than 20 police cars for escort!We believe you umair because we were born yesterday!
I believe this pakistani Taliban want to just spread more anarchy and the Pakistan military is taking full advantage of this by doing nothing!! At a time when there is full scale war between the militants and the government the army has withdrawn and tasked the FC(Frontier Constabulary) which is a parammilitary to clean up the mess whereas the military supplies these guys(the militants) with the weapons!!
Just seems that no one is incharge. Kayan is probably too busy drinking and smoking and getting his son settled in the US and the other generals are more sycophants. Atleast with Musharraf you knew who was incharge.
We need to take on these militants. The army is releasing these militants after striking one deal from another and the complicit arrangement I think is for them not to attack the army. They can attack other security services.
We should not forget Betullah mehsud was released in one of those deals and since then he has murdered more than 1000 people including suicide bombings, soldiers being killed etc.
They are one the Pakistani Taliban and the military and they are just enlarging the theatre of war from Afghanistan into Pakistan and testing the US’s patience.
I think the ISI director should be bombed only then these people will understand the consequences of such duplicitous behaviour!

Posted by Suleman Maniya,Goteborg,Sweden | Report as abusive
 

David Jones writes: “‘Pakistan – Now or Never, apart from being a tool for Indian propaganda must pay some attention to the facts as well as if this was a blog by an Indian organisation, I would not have any problems with its Indian rooted propaganda but Reuters is supposed to be neutral.”

Mr. David,

What is being published is what the reality is. There is nothing positive to say about the status of Pakistan today. It fits into the Indian perspectives and so it looks as though there is an Indian bias. Reuters is neutral and this is as neutral information one can get at this time as possible. This is not the forum to discuss Pakistan’s culture of music, food, festivals etc. There are other forums for it. Here it is concerned with political information and unfortunately, whatever information is available only shows negative aspects of Pakistan. If Reuters were to write positive things about North Korea or Somalia, tell me how they would do it. The reality is that these countries have become a drag to the rest of the world and whatever information available about them today is nothing but negative. This does not make the system biased. Just to show that they are neutral, one doesn’t have to go dig up something that is totally irrelevant to the issues on hand.

Most Indians will not venture here, but for the problems we face at the hands of Pakistan. This is something you Westerners will not understand. It is easy to sit and say that Indians are vicious. We are not. We do not want to be equated with countries like Pakistan, which is something you people do and would not call it as a bias.

We have our own issues and we need to work towards our security and progress. And unfortunately, Pakistan has grown up as an irresponsible state sitting right next to us. And their retrograde movement is a cause of concern for us in terms of security. If Mexico was anti American in terms of religious or any other ideology, and had nukes, the US probably would never have become this powerful and progressed this much. It is all easy to sit and tell others what they should do.

I’d appreciate it if you understand the conditions in the sub-continent better and be sympathetic to the people who deserve them. Just because Pakistan was a military lackey of the US all these years, it does not mean that you should take an emotional side with them either.

 

David Jones wrote:
“2. There are very few people who make comments on articles who are not Indian, the main contributors to this blogs comments are Anitha, Anup, Sanjeev, Rajiv and some other Indians who naturally have nothing fair to say about Pakistan. No matter what the topic of the blog is, these guys talk about ISI, End of Pakistan, Failed State, Rogue State and expressions of similar nature. ”

Thank you sir, for stating the truth.
Sanjeev, can you please take note? Thank you

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive
 

David Jones
“Reuters’ Blog “Pakistan – Now or Never” – A lopsided commentary on Pakistan”
— You started on a wrong note.

“This blog is the most unbalanced view an organisation like Reuters can put forward and I would like to ask its administrators to look at the way it is being conducted.”
—Be specific, what’s the imbalance about…is it, as you claim…

1. The blog contributions on this blog are mainly made by Indian authors
2. There are very few people who make comments on articles who are not Indian,
3. ‘Pakistan – Now or Never, apart from being a tool for Indian propaganda must pay some attention to the facts as well as if this was a blog by an Indian organisation,

These are the usual anti-India allegations, or could be construed as racism, nothing new; David Jones is just a pseudonym… It would have made more sense had you come out with your evaluation of the Author or substantive criticism of the commentators…

Posted by anup | Report as abusive
 

Umair wrote:

“David Jones wrote:
“2. There are very few people who make comments on articles who are not Indian, the main contributors to this blogs comments are Anitha, Anup, Sanjeev, Rajiv and some other Indians who naturally have nothing fair to say about Pakistan. No matter what the topic of the blog is, these guys talk about ISI, End of Pakistan, Failed State, Rogue State and expressions of similar nature. ”

Thank you sir, for stating the truth.
Sanjeev, can you please take note? Thank you
- Posted by Umair ”

Response:

Umair, give me a few things positive, besides cricket, that Pakistan has contributed to humanity and the world, that everybody has of today? For example, India has its own space program, contributed much brain power the U.S., namely SunMicrosystems and brain power to the U.S. military and Microsoft, the Nano car, and now a very cheap laptop, these are just a few of the recent things. India has its share of problems, but its problems have not spilled over and become the worlds’s problems.

Please provide a list of redeeming things Pakistan has done for the world and provided the world, besides the UN peacekeeping force, which it sends to Islamic countries, for the benefit of muslims.

Posted by Global Watcher | Report as abusive
 

Global watcher
I am not denying India made some progress, because I am not a negative person.

You seem not to find anything positive out of Pakistan, probably you dont have a positive outlook.
Pakistan was world champion in cricket in 1992 and hockey in 1994. Pakistan ruled the world of Squash winning British open and world open for decades, Pakistan was world champion in snooker. We have nuclear scientists, pilots doctors and engineers doing everything from heart bypass to kidney transplant, flying planes, experimenting with mechanics to electronics. SUPARCO is Pakistan’s agency similar to NASA, we are behind India in the space research but are crawling, not out of game.
Do I also need to mention some economists, yes they are, we have justice and rule of law. We have a vibrant media, a professional military, we have music and nuclear bombs, we have coasts, rivers, mountain peaks and glaciers to deserts. Diversity, everything you may think of. Pakistan is best kept secret of the world.
2007 was Visit Pakistan year for tourism but there was a downturn due to war in Afghanistan. Things will change for better, Pakistan is alive with possibility.

Pakistan produced an Theoretical Physicsist Dr. Abdus Salam Nobel laureate in Physics for his work in Electro-Weak Theory.
Global watcher if you think positively you will find many positives in Pakistan. I dont like self praise, but if you want, i can sit down and compile a whole list of accomplishments.

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive
 

Umair

—No one is denying Pakistan’s right to prosperity, specially In India – neither individually nor as a nation on the whole, but if you do a honest evaluation of the present state of affairs in Pakistan, you would get a better insight of the problems faced by your country & eventually the solution that also lies within, No America or any outsider is inclined or cares for other people’s rot, they have their own agenda’s to take care of & shall invariably exploit it for their own benefit, each needs to clean up his own mess.

Posted by anup | Report as abusive
 

To my all Pakistani friends :

As an Indian , we sympathize with Pakjistani people for recent terrorist attacks and loss of innocent lives in these terrorist attacks.

But they must remember that “Boya Ped Babul ka Am kahan se paye” , you will reap the harvest as you sow, though the talbans and other jehadi and terrorist groups were not only created but also nurtured by Pakistan ,now they have tuned against Pakistan , time has come for Pakistani to do some soul searching , where lies the mistakes ?

For the present mess , Pakistanis are only responsible, and the remedy lies within Pakistan.

Posted by anju2008 | Report as abusive
 

Umair:

The only difference between India and Pakistan are :
1.the world’s cheapest cars made with “Made in India” tag, but the cheapest terrorists are made with ” Made in Pakistan” tag.

2. India exports software , Pakistan exports terrorist software

3. India is democracy, more than 600 million people will vote to elect a new govt which meets their aspiration , Pakistan is a democracy of few landlords guided and run under a watchful army and it is the army who decides the ruler of the country

Posted by anju2008 | Report as abusive
 

David Jones

whats your nationality and religious affiliation, dont answer if you are not comfortable, but go ahead and

Read below post of Sulaiman Mania,A Pakistani from Sweden

 

anju2008,

Unfortunately, you’re preaching to the wrong choir. Pakistanis know that their country is suffering from a cancer within, but many live in denial. It’s like cat drinking milk with eyes closed. But we know who is drinking the milk and where the milk disappears.

Taliban is a strategic asset for Pakistan which has served it well. Pakistan will not let it go even if the situation on Af-pak border improves. We’ll see, for a short while atleast, that the Pakistanis will turn on the heat on few mad dogs, show a facade of few captives, pat each other’s back and let the paychecks from the US flow in.

Posted by Nikhil | Report as abusive
 

To David Jones (aka the person behind the veil)

Your argument does not cut any ice. I often read Pakis and their supporters complaining that everything going wrong in the land of the pure is a conspiracy of the US, the Jews, the Indians, the Sun, the Moon, the Stars etc; you get the drift. To that list we can now add Reuters, Sanjeev and others.

Posted by Nikhil | Report as abusive
 

Nikil wrote:
To David Jones (aka the person behind the veil)

Your argument does not cut any ice. I often read Pakis and their supporters complaining that everything going wrong in the land of the pure is a conspiracy of the US, the Jews, the Indians, the Sun, the Moon, the Stars etc; you get the drift. To that list we can now add Reuters, Sanjeev and others.

- Wow. “Behind the veil”? Countering conspiracy theory with conspiracy theory? Ya’ll really don’t think before you type.

I love you.
Peace.

Posted by Patrick | Report as abusive
 

“SUPARCO is Pakistan’s agency similar to NASA, we are behind India in the space research but are crawling, not out of game.
–Posted by Umair

Dear Umair: you are behind Iran and N.Korea in this field. Set small targets first. I appreciate the spirit though.

Sorry “David Jones”. I heard your comments–you left me speachless. But can you give a statement about the status of Pakistan rather than criticizing-That would be helpful. Advise a balanced blog–enlighten us. Like Umair is doing.
Umair and Sir Jones: First thing about solving a problem (if you believe there is any in Af-Pak) is to accept the reality or diagnose correctly. Wrong diagnosis such as that by Umair will serve to accelerate the problem.

Now that must not be too hard to understand.

Here are more achievements of Pakistan:
Nuclear bomb (1998)
Nuclear proliferation to Iran 1987 Iraq 1990 N Korea and Libya 1994. Sometime in S Arabia.
This is Nuclear Chor Bazaar established by the only nation in world Pakistan. Hence the lopsided blogs.

Good luck!

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive
 

Baitullah Mehsud has always been an India-supported agent, with a clever disguise as “Pakistani Taliban”. His role has been to carve out a pocket of Pakistan, where he rules by gun and to commit violence elsewhere in the country and export his ideology.

He needs to be taken down, but only after proper preparations.

 

Nikhil,

Your thoughts are very noble, and again you have rightly pointed out that taliban and other jehadi elements are cancer to Pakistan , the main problem with Pakis , they are still in denial mode . Coming back to Mumbai terror attack, how many Pakistanis raised a protest march in the streets of Pakistan or elsewhere in the world ? For any incidents concerning muslims in India, Pakis immediately ask international intervention to protect muslims in India? How are their concerns for Kashmir justified? Have Indian muslims appointed them as their advocate to champion their causes ? or muslims elsewhere in the world appointed Pakis as the custodian of islam?

Pakistan is a nuisance in this world and need to eliminated like a cancer , I am really appalled and flabbergasted to find a mute Indian response to various aid proposal by Obama Administration to Pakistan? While considering aid package for Pakistan, Obama Administration should have given due consideration to Indian sentiments , this is especially in view of the fact that US Auditors are aware of Pakistan misusing such aid in past to buy ammunition to counter some flimsy threats from India?

On the one hand , our bloody politicians and corrupt bureaucrats always mention India as super power , is it not the time to make our sentiments absolutely clear to Obama Administration ?

Is US not playing double game ?

Posted by anju2008 | Report as abusive
 

@anju2008

So you want to eliminate Pakistan ! Heil Hitler !

 

Nikhil,

Have you noticed comments by Amir Ali, how do you like that : Baitullah Mehsud is an Indian agent ?

Pakis should know even the writing on the wall is loud and clear that Indian intel agencies can’t even defend Indians against terror attacks, let alone launching espionage activities in Pakistan or even in Afghanistan?

If our agencies were so efficient and honest, I am sure, Mumbai attack would not have happened?

Posted by anju2008 | Report as abusive
 

Amir ,

Pakistan is surviving due to our corrupt politicians and bureaucrats , and vote bank politics. Any good and nationalist govt in New Delhi, and any misadventure like Mumbai, Pakistan will be history , and will be buried with your so called alcoholic Quede Azam.

Posted by anju2008 | Report as abusive
 

@anju2008

yeah and we will bury you with our nukes.

A lesson to be learned by hate-filled blind Indians like you is : Pakistan is a reality and will continue to exist.

 

Aamir Ali says:

“Baitullah Mehsud has always been an India-supported agent, with a clever disguise as “Pakistani Taliban”. His role has been to carve out a pocket of Pakistan, where he rules by gun and to commit violence elsewhere in the country and export his ideology.

He needs to be taken down, but only after proper preparations.
- Posted by Aamir Ali”

Response,

Aamir, this is the type of garbage nonsense statements that is associated with Pakistani’s I am surprised that you Pakis’s don’t also blame the earthquakes in Pakistan on India, or the Global Economic Crisis. I in my biggest dreams would not even think of 1/10th of the glamourous fable land conspiracies that Pakistani’s dream up out of its pathological and mentally sick hatred for India and non-muslims.

Is this what Islam has become? Paranoia, blame and conspiracy stories? Is there anyone left in Pakistan with a sane, rational, straight thinking mind, who does not blame other for all their troubles and own home grown Islamic Extremist Problems?

Please don’t give India so much credit, in one breath you Paki’s say we planned Mumbai on ourselves to blame Pakistan, the other breath you say, our intelligence RAW was incompetant, in another breath you say that India actually had the upper hand so much so that it was able to convince Muslim Taliban to kill Paki’s??? HOw absurdly stupid can you people become?

Well…this is Pakistan, the mind of its citizens is full and drunk on a good does of Military fueled propaganda from its inception, to fuel hate against India. This hate is often relied up to explain away all of Pakistan’s troubles.

Again, my dear Aamir, please don’t give India so much credit, you only reinforce how useless and weak Pakistan’s own position is.

@Suleman Maniya, thank you brother for being a voice of reason, I wish there were more Pakistani’s like you.

Posted by Global Watcher | Report as abusive
 

There is a sick pathological mental illness in Pakistan. It seems as though Pakistan is not willing to fight any sort of extremism, in its face value form, as long as you cover the ugly face of extremism and blame India, as unconnected as it may seem, it seems the only way for Pakistan to take on the Taliban.

Very sick.

Posted by Global Watcher | Report as abusive
 

Guys,

People like Umair and Amir Ali are internet faces of talibans and jehadis in Pakistan, let us not waste our time in countering them or even addressing them. I call upon all those people with senses to discuss the prevailing situation in Pakistan and role paki jehadis . The sum and substance is that Pakis are heartless ,brutal people , for them killing innocent people is a game. Now the world opinion is against Pakis for their terrorist activities , now they are grumbling about killing of innocent people .

Not a tear in Pakistan was shed when 12 Pakis created mayhem on the streets of Mumbai , or when Paki army massacred more than 3 million innocent people , raped women ?

Posted by anju2008 | Report as abusive
 

Umair’s List:
(1) Pakistan was world champion in cricket in 1992.

-Except now, no cricketing nation wants to come to Pakistan to play. The captain of 1992 win is now a Taliban sympathizing politician.

(2) Hockey in 1994.

-Whoopie!!!!

(3) Pakistan ruled the world of Squash winning British open and world open for decades.

-Whoopie!!!!

(4) Pakistan was world champion in snooker.

-Unless Steve Davis, Ronnie O’Sullivan…etc are Pakistani, I have not seen one Pakistani at a Snooker tournament.

(5) We have nuclear scientists, pilots doctors and engineers doing everything from heart bypass to kidney transplant, flying planes, experimenting with mechanics to electronics.

-We have these guys too. We Indians have also a Nuclear Deal with the USA. Pakistan was rebuffed on wanting the same deal.

(6) SUPARCO is Pakistan’s agency similar to NASA, we are behind India in the space research but are crawling, not out of game.

-If its similar to NASA then why has it not launched anything. If its behind India then it is not similar to NASA. Even the Indian Space program is not similar to NASA.

(7) Do I also need to mention some economists.

-During the 1990s while Manmohan Singh was reforming the Inidian economy; Pakistan was going to the IMF for loans for the first time. Pakistan has gone to the IMF for the second time. Mr. Singh is now PM. Pakistan has Mr. 10% as president.

(8) We have justice and rule of law.

-Only after you have stretched your legs with a very Long March. However, do not venture into the Swat region, there is a very different rule of law there.

(9) We have a vibrant media.

-That gets turned off the air at the govt’s will resulting in resignation of the Information Minister.

(10) A professional military.

-That has quit hunting after the terrorists on its own soil and given the Swat region up to the Taliban.

(11) We have music.

-Except in the Swat region where it is banned by the Taliban.

(12) Nuclear bombs.

-These are no longer a deterent to those eating away at the fabric of Pakistan.

(13) We have coasts, rivers, mountain peaks and glaciers to deserts.

-These were already there pre-partition. So what? Most countries have one or all of these.

(14) Diversity, everything you may think of.

-Err? what about the other minorities living in Pakistan that have dwindled in number from 20% to 1-2% over 50 years?

(15) Pakistan is best kept secret of the world.

-WRONG!!! Mention Pakistan to any person on the street in any country and you get negative remarks. Sorry, it is not a best kept secret, but best kept away from.

(16) 2007 was Visit Pakistan year for tourism but there was a downturn due to war in Afghanistan.

-Yes, come to Pakistan, does not matter what nationality you are and get kidnapped and held for ransom to result in beheading if no payments are made.

(17) Pakistan produced an Theoretical Physicsist Dr. Abdus Salam Nobel laureate in Physics for his work in Electro-Weak Theory.

-How many other Pakistanis know this? Also know this:
“We are scared of honouring Dr Salam because of our constitution which we have amended to declare his community as ‘non-Muslim’.” (from ALL THING PAKISTAN)

Posted by bulletfish | Report as abusive
 

Umair, if you want to make lists then please pay attention to what the world around thinks of you and deal with your problems:

From BBC News:

27 March 09: Suicide bomber demolishes crowded mosque near the north-western town of Jamrud, killing dozens

3 March 09: Six policemen and a driver killed, and several cricketers injured, in ambush on the Sri Lanka cricket team in central Lahore

20 Sept 08: 54 die in an attack on the Marriott hotel in Islamabad

6 Sept 08: Suicide car bombing kills 35 and wounds 80 at a police checkpoint in Peshawar

Aug 08: Twin suicide bombings at gates of a weapons factory in town of Wah leave 67 dead

March 08: Suicide bombs hit police headquarters and suburban house in Lahore, killing 24

Posted by bulletfish | Report as abusive
 

‘Pakistan – Now or Never, is a tool for Indian propaganda is ignorant of ground realities and the only reference made to another writer is of Nathan Hodge in Danger Room which is one of the propaganda portal as well. The most shamefull is the Reuters have allowed this sort of propaganda blogging.

Posted by Harry | Report as abusive
 

Aamir the misguided Ali writes: “Baitullah Mehsud has always been an India-supported agent”

Aamir,

I really am awestruck by you ISI guys! How amazing it is that you are able to crack all these secrets! Wow!

By the way, let us share some information so that global peace can be made better –

RAW is run by the ISI now.

Zardari is a RAW agent.

Gilani has ties with Advani in India. They are plotting to form Sindhu Desh.

Obama has secret deals with Bin Laden.

US is planning to use the drones inside Pakistan in order to create more cricket grounds.

Carpet bombing in Pakistan will be done soon to clear weeds in the lawns of Lahore and Islamabad.

Islamabad will change its name to Islamaugly. Good is an unIslamic word according to Taliban.

Let us exchange more secrets please.

 

@Pakistan and music.

–Music is Haram in Islam and Pakistan is Islamic republic. Prophet Mohammad does not allow Music by saying “There will be among my Ummah people who will regard as permissible adultery, silk, alcohol and musical instruments,”

Is Taliban right about it?

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive
 

Aamir Ali writes: “Baitullah Mehsud has always been an India-supported agent”

Umair: Any comments on this new finding? And all under the watchful eyes of ISI? That does not place ISI in CIA/Mossad’s category and makes RAW the dad of all spy agencies.

Aamir: Tell us more. We need such jokes to break the monontony of death and destruction.

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive
 

@Bulletfish, thank you for the detailed spot-on rebuttal to the moniker “Umair”, which is probably used by a few individuals.

@Umair,

You use the word nuclear bxxbs quite often. In your chest thumping about Pakistan’s usage of a nuke, are you so stupid that you do not realize that as soon as Pakistan uses a nuke, that Pakistan is finished? Just think, the U.S. and India, both have nuclear subs, and the U.S. has ICBM’s with high detonation yield Nuclear War heads. You think they will just sit idly by as you nuke their fifth fleet to any sort of response to them? You think India will just sit by, as you nuke an India city?

Just remember to finished your sentence the next time you utter the words “Pakistan has nukes and will use them”, just remember to properly finish your sentence with the following words: “…and after Pakistan uses the first nuke, Pakistan will also be completely destroyed, beyond recovery..”. Just like that Umair, please complete your sentence with regards to the use of the word nuke.

Please don’t hide that fact that Pakistan will be decimated minutes later in a reciprocating massive relation. At that moment, you would be permanently abscent from these blogs. Use your sensibilities.

With some parting wisdom for you, in the recent words of U.S. Gen. David Petraus:

“Petraeus said that he had discussed reports of ISI complicity with the Taliban in his recent discussions with its chief, Gen. Ahmed Shuja Pasha, and would continue to do so.

“There are accusations, frankly, some when you dig into them seem to be more ambiguous than on the surface but some of them are not,” Petraeus said, referring to alleged ISI-Taliban cooperation. ”

Keep a dog leash on your so-called professional ISI, who keep getting caught red handed keeping criminals in their own house for overnight sleepovers.

Posted by Global Watcher | Report as abusive
 

Global watcher, Pakistan possesses a second strike status, absorbing a nuclear strike and retaiating with one of its own.
All the US can do is just confront ISI regarding on issues. Tell you what buddy, ISI is today what the US made it. The US tasked the ISI to fight the soviets in Afghanistan, supplying weapons and billions of dollars to ISI. ISI is the branchild of CIA, ISI is a legend, ISI is imaginery ISI is invisible and doesnt exists. ISI is a fear inside the enemies of Pakistan, In my opinions there is nothing exists such as ISI its just your fear and paranoia. ISI is notorious or whatever you may call it. For everyhting ISI is a formidable spy service safeguarding Pakistan nationl interests. while you know much about ISI let me tell you about:

1. ISSB (Inter-services selection Board)
2. ISPR (Inter-services public relations)

ISSB is tasked selection and recruitment of commissioned officers in Pakistan Army, Navy and Air Force. while ISPR look after civilian and military relations and PR responsibility for armed forces.

Similarly, ISI is an disciplined organization, with responsibility to identify and eliminate internal and external threats to Pakistan’s security. I keep hearing ISI is a state within a state a rouge agency, tell you what dismantle the ISI and Pakistan could fall apart with terrorists getting their hands on nuclear weapons. For everything, ISI is the best hope for you Indians, I must see some praise for ISI by you next time.

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive
 

@Rajeev

The joke is that Indians accuse every terrorism act on Pakistan, specifically ISI, then complain when Pakistanis accuse Indians of sponsoring terror in their country.

Hope you get it.

 

I agree with the comments made by David jones regarding consistant anti-pakistan/islam bias and indian propoganda by certain posters such as bulletfish, mauryan, Global watcher, anup, rajeev, anitha etc. something prevalant in every pakistan related blog on this site, and people who don’t agree with the views of the above mentioned posters are swamped with racist and deragatory remarks.

The word ‘paki’(considered racist/offensive by most, especially here in the UK) is used on a very regular basis without objection from the authors or the site administration. The blog authors ( notably Sanjeev and Mayra) and the reuters admin need to consider these issues to mainatin impartiality.

Posted by Concerned | Report as abusive
 

Amir,

Everytime India blame Pakistan or its “Non State Actors” of orchestrating terrorism she provides proof. When the proofs point to different agencies e.g Malegaon she accepts it. Now the whole world accepts our stand on cross border terrorism.

Pak only rents and has not provided any proof of Indian involvement so far to my knowledge. Except some lousy conspiracy theories.

Posted by chirkut | Report as abusive
 

Umair,
“For everything, ISI is the best hope for you Indians, I must see some praise for ISI by you next time.”

Thanks but we are still sane. We have not buried our head in sands and living in delusion.

Posted by chirkut | Report as abusive
 

http://www.ptinews.com/pti%5Cptisite.nsf  /0/FA31265618C284486525758C00611F8F?Ope nDocument

Barack Obama hails India as a partner on the economy and war on terrorism.

I don’t believe Pakistan is a partner on anything positive with any country.

Posted by Global Watcher | Report as abusive
 

@ Bulletfish: You got your facts wrong. The president of Pakistan,Zardari,the killer of Benazir, has become Mr 110% from 10%!!
Anyways I dont think we should fight amongst ourselves. We need to debate about the topic at hand.The taliban are slowly making inroads in all echelons of the government and the military in Pakistan.
I believe the ISI should be completely revamped.Its charter defined as to what it can do and anyone found stepping their line should not only be punished but Killed!
The politicians we have now only care about themselves and will keep on doing half measures since they dont want to take the stick. We need a military strongman ,unlike Kayani, who could fight head on. The perks in the military should be finished to make them fight this war otherwise they are enjoying on both sides of the fence.

Posted by Suleman Maniya,Goteborg,Sweden | Report as abusive
 

To anju2008,

1) You asked, “Is US not playing double game?

- No. The US/NATO don’t know how to craft a sound policy for a devious country like Pakistan. Pakistan is a double-faced state where the army/ISI does not hesitate to cross its civilian government, where agreements signed by the civilian leaders are shredded by its army and the promises given to other countries are either sabotaged or broken.
I support any funding that goes for the betterment of Pakistanis, but not the army. The challenge is how to ensure that foreign aid is not leaked or siphoned off in to the coffers of the jihadis. Well, my guess is as good as yours.

2) You asked, “How are Paki concerns for Kashmir justified?”

- In my view, they are not justified. But I don’t want to digress from the topic of discussion. There are other posts where we debate regarding Kashmir.

3) You asked about the silly comments by bloggers like Aamir Ali, Umair and others,

- I find the responses by Aamir Ali, Umair and others silly and often delusional. I just ignore them. In Pakistan, saving face in public is very important; that explains the denial and the obfuscation by few here. I often travel and I’ve few Pakistani friends who I’ve met abroad. I must say they are warm and friendly but very sensitive when it comes to certain topics, such as religion. Many blame their govt and army – especially since the Zia era – and not the US or India for their current problems. But those confessions are made only in private; not in public forums like this blog.

Posted by Nikhil | Report as abusive
 

Nikhil:
“Pakistan is a double-faced state where the army/ISI does not hesitate to cross its civilian government, where agreements signed by the civilian leaders are shredded by its army and the promises given to other countries are either sabotaged or broken.”

-What about India that doent honour UN resolutions on Kashmir, and then runs crying to the same UN to ask it to brand LeT as a terrorist organization?

“I find the responses by Aamir Ali, Umair and others silly and often delusional.”

-yeah sure, when someone states crap and maligns Pakistan and he is confronted by a rebuttal, it will certainly feel silly to you. After all, you want to see Pakistan getting maligned dont you?

I dont buy your crap Nikhil. sell it to poor anju.

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive
 

@Rajeev
The joke is that Indians accuse every terrorism act on Pakistan, specifically ISI, then complain when Pakistanis accuse Indians of sponsoring terror in their country.
Hope you get it.
- Posted by Aamir Ali

-Aamir, actually I still don’t get it. On a Pakistan TV channel I saw the same logic by one expert Mohtarma “Indians accuse of Pakistani hand for terrorism activity in India, why should we also not say that Indian hand is involved in Pakistan terrorism?” Great!

If you are accusing to balance Indian allegation against Pakistan, do so by getting into the analysis and some basis. It becomes a joke and no one takes it seriously if there is a huge gap between the observation and the analysis of it. B.Mehsud, a Pakistani born TTP Chief, declared openly to help Pakistan with men and amunition against a possible war against India (Pak is quiet on that), Taliban established & promoted by Pakistan as a strategic asset against India; Mehsud now forming the Ittehad-e-Shura-e-Mujahideen (Union of the Consultative Council of Mujahideen) against US/NATO—and with this information I say Mehsud is anti-India, not an Indian agent and you say Mehsud as an Indian agent. Is it not a joke? But no one can prevent you from saying Obama rhymes with Osama so Obama is an al-aqaida member. This is called baseless allegation. If you give such expert analysis and write your cell phone and e-mail contact here, I’ll tell you your line will be busy with propaganda sites in pakistan, asking you to join them for this wild and original link you discovered.

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive
 

To Umair,

My comments were addressed to anju2008 because he/she asked me about it. I’ve no bandwidth or time to endlessly write responses to your comments which we all know by now are cherry-picked from others and often baseless.

Posted by Nikhil | Report as abusive
 

William Glick

good job, keep good work. Surething,
at the end of the day spirituality which unites us all, wins and religion, which divides us, is ignored.

 

Nikhil:

I fully agree with you, Pakis are double edged sword, it cuts both ways, if you keep friendship with them they will kill you , if you don’t, they will still kill you after all the they are the heirs of same old mughal dynasty where the historically every mughal emperor becomes emperor after killing his father and other relatives in the line of throne . Aurangzeb was the proof of this . Killing of 3 million innocent people and rape of countless millions women , by Paki army in East Pakistan(formerly) is also the blatant example of their philosophy of violence and killing of innocent people .

Secondly , as far as Kashmir is concerned, how Pakistan is interested in this matter? Shimla Agreement signed between Bhutto and Indira Gandhi in 1974, which clearly mention that all parties will respect international border drawn post 1971- war, where Pakistan lost terribly leading to dismemberment of Pakistan , how has Kashmir certainly become relevant to Pakistan ? Moreover, which Kashmir they are talking about ? Are they talking about the part of Kashmir they have gifted to their political masters, China? Under what authority Pakis are talking about UN resolution ? Have people of Kashmir appointed Pakis as their advocate? Or Pakis have assumed this right themselves ? UN resolution is matter between India and people of Kashmir , how Pakis are interested in this matter?

NIkhil , you are a well meaning gentleman who tends to overlook the treachury unleashed by Pakis in Kashmir, killing and rape of hapless women , are they justified in the name of islam? I donot want to comment on your experiences with Pakis,but certainly I donot have very good experience with them , I better not deal with them.

People like Umair and Amir Ali are the internet faces of taliban and global jehad , so they are better ignored.

Posted by anju2008 | Report as abusive
 

Umair :

You should talk reason when you still have some, other wise, it is treated as bakwas ,look while dealing with Pakistan, the members of international community talks about terror threat emanating from Pakistan or illegal proliferators of nuclear technology by world famous Pakis like A.Q.Khan , nobody talks about growth , development , research and technology . Of course , people definitely talk about research but it is confined to the research of suicide bombers , or terrorists and other jehadi elements in Pakistan . While dealing with India, people of international community talk about growth, development, the whole international community in the time of recession, look towards India and China to spearhead growth to overcome global recession. Today, Indian PM has been invited to G20 summit in London to hear our views about global economy.

Moreover there is basic difference between India and Pakistan, the world’s cheapest cars are made with “Made in India” tag ,and the world’s cheapest terrorists are made “Made in Pakistan” tag.

While dealing with Soviet invasion in Afghanistan, the international community did not look towards Iran or any other country in the neighbourhood , but look towards Pakistan, they knew that it is easy to manipulate Pakis and involve them in this war. Now international community wants us to take the constructive role of building Afghanistan. Whereas Pakis are involved in war against terror in the words of Obama : “AFPAK Strategy” .

Umair , we are part of international community in growth, development , research and development of technology for human development , more than 2 million tourists from different part of the world including Pakistan visited India for medical treatment alone.

Posted by anju2008 | Report as abusive
 

Suleman Mania

you should be writing more on Pak Blogs if you are not already doing so. Amir and Umair are leading your countrymen down the path of self destruction.

Just Tday I follwed a short (shocking)discussion on CNN in which former US secretary of State Albright was in the panel. It seems Karzais govt. is considering legalizing rape of a wife(unwilling)by husband,just to appease the Taliban.Woman is inferior and slave- is it religion or savegery.

 

Umair and the other clowns,

The following video must make you very proud Pakistanis. The Taliban gives quick justice on the butt. Welcome to modern Pakistan!

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/video/20 09/apr/02/swat-valley-flogging

 

Mauryan wrote
“The following video must make you very proud Pakistanis. The Taliban gives quick justice on the butt. Welcome to modern Pakistan!”

Umair should be feeling scared, this could happen with him too, for the newly found love affair with Patrick, his better half will be surely cut into half if talibs found them.

But It surely made me thank god several times, as I was born this side of Punjab.

Poor girl, What was her crime anyways ?

Posted by punjabiyaar | Report as abusive
 

It is not a surprise seeing the mindset of clowns like Umair and Aamir Ali. Looks like the brain power of Pakistan has been washed thoroughly with the same voice. Look at the article in Pak Tribune. They have been parroting the same thing: RAW is the real evil, India has nothing else to do except destroy Pakistan, Pakistan is made up of angels and so on. Read this article in a Pakistani tabloid called “Pak Tribune.” I emailed an author from this magazine and got the same filth in reply that these guys parrot on this forum – India is made up of poor, slums, corruption, Muslims are killed everyday to make chutney and so on.

http://www.paktribune.com/news/index.php  ?id=213162

 

http://www.paktribune.com/news/index.php  ?id=213162

Seriously this looks like transcript of some lecture of another blabbering idiot Zaid Hamid

Posted by punjabiyaar | Report as abusive
 

Whatever Taliban is doing in pakistan is commendable. They should annihilate all pakis.

Posted by rohit | Report as abusive
 

Umair wrote:
What about India that doent honour UN resolutions on Kashmir, and then runs crying to the same UN to ask it to brand LeT as a terrorist organization?

-In Kashmir at the moment all your pro-Paki friends have been keeping their mouths firmly shut. They do not want to be seen as supporting the same groups from the Mumbai and Lahore attacks. They see a very insecure Pakistan that they could not possible align themselves with. Please do not bother to give me Zulfikur Bhutto’s speech about Kashmiris being Pakistani by kin, blood…etc.

LeT is your Paki creation. They attacked Mumbai and you have the nerve to say they are non-state actors in a series of denials. Now similar groups are attacking Pakistan from within. At the UN it was you, Pakistan, that was sitting in China’s lap sucking your thumb. you try so hard to get China to side with you that you will do almost anything.

Hey Umair, read this:

Pakistan’s foreign exchange reserves fell by $170 million to $10.09 billion in the week ended March 28, the central bank said on Thursday (02/04/2009).

Once you have read it, go and get your begging bowl.

Posted by bulletfish | Report as abusive
 

Anju2008:
FYI, Simla Agreement was signed on 2 July 1972 (not 1974). What you said is true but Indira Gandhi could and should have done better. She was soft on the deal with Bhutto. Enemy needs to be crushed properly when the chance is there and she did not do a nice job there.

One agreement in the deal is:
“In Jammu and Kashmir, the line of control resulting from the cease-fire of December 17, 1971 shall be respected by both sides without prejudice to the recognized position of either side. Neither side shall seek to alter it unilaterally, irrespective of mutual differences and legal interpretations. Both sides further undertake to refrain from the threat of the use of force in violation of this line”

Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto also promised Mrs Indira Gandhi, that his country would accept the Line of Control (LOC) in the state of J&K as the de facto border and would not try ot de-stabilise it. This was not formally entered in the agreement because Bhutto said it would cause domestic problems for him at this juncture. Mrs Gandhi magnanimously accepted his promise and did not formalise that part of the agreement. But Pakistan, as later events were to prove, never kept its part of the deal.

Trusting a state like Pakistan was the blunder. Nevertheless even the written and signed Simla agreement is sufficient for Pakistan keep its filthy hands off India.

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive
 

My message to all Indians

Stop your bakwas because no body takes you seriously, dont tell me India is becoming the next super power, dont tell me India is a wonderland. I know the reality.

Same idiots who were telling me few weeks and months back that Pakistan is a failed state and will collapse in a metter of weeks can see we are standing on our feet. Decades and years later, you will see us much stronger.

Mauryan, you posted the video, I saw it on GEO TV today, this is certainly not people whe are projecting Islam. The TSNM(Tehrik Nifaz Shariat Muhammadi) sopkesman, Izzat Khan interviewed by GEO TV said that there are elements trying to poject Shariat and its implementation in Swat negatively. This was an attempt to influence the general public and instigate them against Islam. However a true muslim knows this is not Islam, there is an uproar here, there is an urgency to tame any of those fanatics who want to carry out unislamic acts in the name of Islam.

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive
 

Mauryan, Punjabiyaar:

From the link posted by Mauryan is this quote by a Pakistani blogger:

“In it was an article that CIA broke myth that muslim will not kill a muslim by Iran Iraq war,encouraged with results they then broke myth that Arab will not raise arms on an Arab by gulf war.More encouraged CIA is experimenting to fracture a society from within e.g.in Somalia,IRaq,Afghanistan and Pakistan and a new map has appeared in US armed forces journal in which all countries have been cut into size.But the practical aspect of achieiving is being done by the armed forces of muslim countries thats why also they are working to promote regional languages with this dismemberment in mind.Punjabistan may further be broken into Pothwar,Sariki and Punjab.Good luck armed forces of Pakistan.”

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive
 

MESSAGE TO ALL UMAIRS:

Please STOP your bakwas like:
…elements trying to poject Shariat and its implementation in Swat negatively. This was an attempt to influence the general public and instigate them against Islam.

The above lines a load of bullsh*t!!! No one needs to project Shariat negatively when it does the job perfectly with no one’s help.

Even those Taliban who killed your own Pakistani civilians in Swat in order to implement Shariat will not face trial. Do you call this justice? I WOULD APPRECIATE AN HONEST ANSWER.

Why don’t you cut out your BIG talk of nukes and ISI sort out your country.

27 March 2009:
Suicide bomber demolishes crowded mosque near the north-western town of Jamrud, killing dozens

3 March 2009:
Six policemen and a driver killed, and several cricketers injured, in ambush on the Sri Lanka cricket team in Lahore
20 Sept 2008:
54 die in attack on the Marriott hotel in Islamabad

6 Sept 2008:
Suicide car bombing kills 35 and wounds 80 at a police checkpoint in Peshawar

Aug 2008:
Twin suicide bombings at gates of a weapons factory in town of Wah kill 67

March 2008:
Suicide bombs hit police headquarters and suburban house in Lahore, killing 24

Posted by bulletfish | Report as abusive
 

To Umair:
@My message to all Indians, Stop your bakwas because no body takes you seriously,
–and who is that “no body”. I see no one having a problem with India’s talk. I was chatting with my neighbor, a US gentleman 87yr WWII marine and a retired doctor who was in south pacific for 5 yrs, was asking me what’s the problem with your neigbor Pakistan, why they cannot behave, why they are such a mess versus India born the the same time is among the top few countries in many fields despite the local problems, why India is seen responsible and Pak is not with Nukes, why US can trust India (with nukes) but not Pakistan in anything, why so many questions with Pakistan while dealing, why Pak cannot solve the problem without a terrorist or Asif Ali Zardari without poking pistol while hugging a guy and strapping a RC-controlled time-bomb to the guy to get $$$$ from the bank, is there an end to it?

Umair, what can I say to him–I did gave a postive spin that at personal level you are fine, but I had to agree with his observations. Now this is quite a detailed knowledge from a guy who said he never been to India/Pakistan. I saw atleast 100s-books of all kinds–all kind of authors, meaning he is well-read and knows what he is saying ad he has been in the business of national security. So the point is the world, examplified by this US guy, knows who is who. We do not have to say India is a peaceful country since that goes without saying. Presidents as early as Thomas Jefferson have commented on India–its secularity.

@dont tell me India is becoming the next super power,
–I do not think India is next superpower. Quite improbable. I am not into superpower business–it is a plain BS–but neither do I want India to live in a SH$T hole. Want India secure and Indians progress and of Pakistan does the same–good luck to them.

@dont tell me India is a wonderland. I know the reality.
–India is not a wonderland, but it is a land that attracted the invaders–must be a good reason. we know the past, the negative and postive aspects, but do not live in the glory of the past—that does not add any value today if we pause. We know the problems and dare to say yes to those problems and accept them-if there is fudamentalism, we say it does exist–but it does not stir the world outside India’s territories thus far–and there is only 1 way and that is to counter it and not to propagate them as strategic weapons. We have poverty but riches because of the Indian efforts. This is the land which even those who hate it also find love in it, eventually. I have seen that you do not know the reality of India. Reality will be telling the postives before you step into the negative zone. And I have not seen that happening from pakistani.

@Same idiots who were telling me few weeks and months back that Pakistan is a failed state and will collapse in a metter of weeks can see we are standing on our feet. Decades and years later, you will see us much stronger.
–In weeks is exageration but Gen Petraeus said 1-6 months and he is your ally.

@ This was an attempt to influence the general public and instigate them against Islam. However a true muslim knows this is not Islam, there is an uproar here, there is an urgency to tame any of those fanatics who want to carry out unislamic acts in the name of Islam.
–I have not seen the video but can imagine. You must know that this is fanatic Islam rather than rejecting them as non-Muslims. And I am yet to hear your views about LetT and other anti-India terrorists—are they non-Muslims and do you condemn them? I have seen you doing that multiple times against Shiv Sena, VHP etc who have not hurt Pakistan (negligible of there is in any way).

Umair et al, it is time you tone down your anti-India attitude. As a friend this is my advise.
If I was Patrick, I will say I’ll love you–just kidding.

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive
 

Umair the faithful writes: “Mauryan, you posted the video, I saw it on GEO TV today, this is certainly not people whe are projecting Islam.”

What do you mean by projecting Islam? Isn’t public flogging, stoning, cutting hands off, beheading, beating up one’s wife etc sanctioned in the Quran? What is there to project? They do it openly in Saudi Arabia. Wasn’t Taliban welcomed by people like you for providing quick justice? I remember that when discussions about truce with the Taliban was announced in the Swat valley. Now why are you trying to deny it? You have stood up for everything else so far that the rest of the world is accusing your country of.

“there are elements trying to poject Shariat and its implementation in Swat negatively. This was an attempt to influence the general public and instigate them against Islam.”

Who are these elements? Are you saying that the Taliban are non-violent peace makers? Be consistent in your stand. Do not jump ship every time the focus shifts. By doing this, you are making a complete fool out of yourself.

“However a true muslim knows this is not Islam, there is an uproar here, there is an urgency to tame any of those fanatics who want to carry out unislamic acts in the name of Islam.”

Any one can show you that public flogging is a part of Shria in any declared theocratic Muslim state. In Iran they do it openly. Why are you trying to hide?

 

Mauryan
Despite everything Islam is rising, Islam is still the fastest growing religion. Why do you find Mosques in New York, muslims in toronto, you have people practicing Islam in Australia, Africa everywhere.

After communism, Capitalism is collapsing. Multibillion dollar bailouts, financial and auto sectors are crashing in the west, UK is running for life, economies are loosing jobs just 650,000 were lost in US in March alone.

The next century belongs to Islam, Islam has given equal rights to women, equal economic opportunity and justice. Islam is a complete code of life, its not the muslims that exists in backward areas of tribal region. You will find them in West, men and women with hijab, men with beard, they live life according to Islam.

I know we need to educated some muslims in the tribal region, SWAt and FATA bring them into mainstream and equip them to face the challenges of the world. It is being done and the government is making effort to develop the tribal region.

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive
 

Be it Communism, Corporate Capitalism, Leninism, Marxism, Nazism, hinduism, I can tell you Islam is a complete code of life among all.
Right from the moment a child is born, (Azaan) call for prayer is given in his ears, he is bathed, later if boy circumcision is performed, after reaching age of 7 he is taught to read prayer(Namaz) 5 times daily. Quran is taught to him, and muslims today are gainig more and more higer education, when he is marriageable he gets married, and same way bring up his children. In business in job in every field of life their are rules set out, even in war there are rules.
And when a muslim leaves this world, (dies) his funeral is performed in an Islamic way. He is buried in a white cloth with honour. Muslim children would respect their elders and parents, not dump them in old age orphanages.
Islamic architecture is beautiful, there are so many positive things related to and given by Islam.

Many westerners who were born in non muslim homes converted to Islam and are living their lives according to Islam in the west.

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive
 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_not able_converts_to_Islam

Just browse the list of notable people from different walks of lives, musicians, sportsmen, politicians, common people from East and West who converted to Islam.

Now when a rapper or Jazz musician from New York converts to Islam, whats your take on that Mauryan?

Any Indian open for discussion on Islam? Tell me how many muslims are there in US? we know there are millions in India. Gulf, Africa, Arabia, South East Asia, Australia, Americas. Can you name a continent without oa mosque or a notable city in the world without muslims.

Why are you so critical on a siongle incident taking place in a remote region of a muslim country? can you ignore billions of muslims who live across the globe?

5 MINUTES INTODUCTION TO ISLAM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZHujiWd49 l4&feature=PlayList&p=0EFE609B1CB0DA6D&p laynext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=14

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive
 

@Muslim children would respect their elders and parents, not dump them in old age orphanages.
-Umair wrote
–History tells otherwise son killed father and brother to get power during Mughal era.

@The next century belongs to Islam, Islam has given equal rights to women.
–next century? who knows-but you ruled out 90 yrs at least. “Equal rights to women”—you will make a great policy maker for your country. Also, Afghan govt (Muslims right?) would make it illegal for a woman to refuse to have sex with her husband and forbid her from leaving home without her husband’s permission. Polygamy by man and Burqa by a woman is not equal-It is oppression—Islamic may be. In Pakistan, women who report a rape are accused of zina and imprisoned while the rapers walk free. Islam is what you are giving to the people and not what you preach–have one version theory and practice.

@Be it Communism, Corporate Capitalism, Leninism, Marxism, Nazism, hinduism, I can tell you Islam is a complete code of life among all.
-The inflexibile code.

@Right from the moment a child is born, (Azaan) call for prayer is given in his ears, he is bathed, later if boy circumcision is performed, after reaching age of 7 he is taught to read prayer(Namaz) 5 times daily. Quran is taught to him, and muslims today are gainig more and more higer education, when he is marriageable he gets married, and same way bring up his children.
–such a sense of insecurity. A typical brainwash method-catch’em young. In a way, Muslims child is brainwashed from birth with no way out. Reigns of the brain are given to Islam (read religion)-pretty hardocore and add a twist of religious intolerance—I wonder how many moderates are actually left. No wonder some Muslims feel the sense of suffocation in this “have to do, no-way out, inflexible” environment. In west, I have seen this sense of “thanks I got out out of that religious envirnoment” attitude in some successful Muslims.

@In business in job in every field of life their are rules set out, even in war there are rules.
–as we have been discussing, Pakistan has no rules in war.

@Islamic architecture is beautiful, there are so many positive things related to and given by Islam.
-what are Pakistan’s achivements–a bomb that will destry the Islamic architecture!

@Many westerners who were born in non muslim homes converted to Islam and are living their lives according to Islam in the west.
-Perhaps that’s the fear that westerners have and are killing thousands of Muslims in these war on terror and give money to Muslims to do that job-I see that as a scenario when Brits were using Indians (read Hindus, Muslims and all religions) against fellow Indians.

Umair: These were my frank comments. On Hinduism, even Hindus cannot claim a full grasp for the vastness of it and you are so sure–non-serious stuff. I will not brag about Hinduism here like you do. Hinduism is vast and beyond the grasp of your narrow mind. You have to be open and receptive like a sponge to soak something. religious intolerance does not make you a sponge but a stone. So anything un-islamic will not be understandable to you. This superiority complex by Muslims is their downfall and the graph is downward and not up. You guys are stuck in the past-present that you are unable to decide what is good for your future.

Islam needs modification at personal leve and this mixing of religion with politics is hurting both.

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive
 

Umair wrote:
“The next century belongs to Islam, Islam has given equal rights to women, equal economic opportunity and justice. Islam is a complete code of life, its not the muslims that exists in backward areas of tribal region.”

Umair, stop painting islam as a equal rights and justice religion. Islam is started by a philophile, followed by idiots. If westerners are adopting islam, that does not means islam is growing, Its their religion which is shrinking.

If islam gives equal rights, why men are allowed to marry 4 women and, women are allowed to marry one man ??

Why women are beaten up and its legal in islam ?

Why Mukhtara mai has happened in Pakistan ?

Why does a 17 yrs girl got punished for getting out with her father in law ?

I just saw GEO TV where taliban spokesman Muslim Khan said that punishment was VALID but should be given indoor and not in front of people. Moreover nobody from the crowd helped that girl, instead they helped the punisher by holding hands of victim, So that fanatic can hit her hard.

Fcuk islam, Fcuk Taliban. World is getting sick of you.

Posted by punjabiyaar | Report as abusive
 

Rajeev
I didnt meant to start a war between Hinduism and Islam. I am just wondering how you read word by word and reply to each sentence. You are devoting so much time to prove what? That Hinduism is superior to Islam? Ok so be it, it doesnt matter, do you find hindu temples in every single country and hindus in every single country? no.

Send me a list of famous hindu converts, lets compare hinduism and Islam and we’ll know which is the vast religion.

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive
 

Millitants combined with other extremist elements are supported supplied and armed by India. The US shares this position with Pakistan and has recently initiated a program to train the military experts in counterinsurgency. A group of Pakistani controllers work with US embassy to ensure Pakistani F-16s flying sorties in Waziristan do not mistakenly shoot down CIA drones in the area. A complex combination of CIA operatives followed by ISI personnell in the area, Pakistan Army and joint US-NATO operation from the Afghan side on one hand and a combination of veteran Arab fighters, new Taliban, Uzbek, Chechens millitants on the other makes this a bloody quagmire. Its game over for the millitants, they have one course to follow: surrender or get killed.

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive
 

US plans $3bn military boost for Pakistan: report

http://www.brecorder.com

WASHINGTON (updated on: April 03, 2009, 15:34 PST): The US Defense Department has a three billion dollar plan to train and equip Pakistan’s military over the next five years, US media reported on Friday.

The funds would pay for helicopters, night-vision goggles and other equipment and counterinsurgency training for Pakistan’s special operations forces and Frontier Corps paramilitary troops, the New York Times said.

It quoted Pentagon officials as saying up to 500 million dollars could come from a yearly emergency war budget that President Barack Obama’s administration is to present to Congress next week.

But with some legislators expressing concern over the Pakistan Counterinsurgency Capability Fund, the top US military officer acknowledged that the United States had not mandated enough accountability for the funds.

“There hasn’t been an audit trail, and there haven’t been accountability measures put in place, and there needs to be for all the funds,” Admiral Mike Mullen, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, told the Times’s editorial board.

“So we’re going to do that. For this counterinsurgency money, which is important, it is critical that it goes for exactly that and nowhere else.”

Mullen said the Pakistani military must change its focus from fighting arch-foe India to combating militants and insurgents within its borders. “That’s not going to change overnight,” he said.

Mullen said insurgents operating in safe havens in Pakistan were preparing attacks against Afghanistan and Pakistan.

“The Taliban, in particular, are going both ways now,” he said. “They are coming toward Islamabad and they are actually going toward Kabul. I’m completely convinced that the vast majority of the leaders in Pakistan understand the seriousness of the threat.”

Mullen said last month that aid to Pakistan needed to be linked to concrete action but expressed confidence that the country’s military grasped the nature of the threat within its borders.

He said the Pakistani military leadership, including Chief of Staff General Ashfaq Kayani, understood that the militants posed a threat to Pakistan itself.

“I have great confidence in General Kayani and in the Pakistani military,” said Mullen, who holds frequent talks with his Pakistani counterpart.

Despite the deployment of more than 100,000 troops, Pakistan has been unable to stop a wave of attacks by Taliban and al Qaeda-linked militants that have killed 1,700 since July 2007.

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive
 

Umair wrote:
“Send me a list of famous hindu converts, lets compare hinduism and Islam and we’ll know which is the vast religion.”

To understand Hinduism you need a very broad minded, concept of Hinduism will not fit into your narrow one. Hinduism needs no comparison or converts. Its above all of this.

Its only Islam which consider itself vast on scale of number of followers. Hinduism don’t care how many followers practice it and it will survive even if there is only one hindu or even if there isn;t any hindu left. While Islam is dying despite of billion followers.

You will not find any BIG converts in Hinduism because we dont think its as achievement for a religion. For today’s class You can be a Hindu while being a Muslim too. Hinduism is more than a religion its a way of life.

Forget it you will never understand

Posted by punjabiyaar | Report as abusive
 

Any Indians open for discussion on US military boost for Pakistan? How do you see it since Pakistan army and ISI are supporting terrorism(in opinion of Global watcher and bulletfish).
Can you pleae write letters to President Obama to stop helping Pakistan Military?
Here is his address:

The President of the United States of America
The White House
1600 Pennsylvania Avenue NW
Washington, DC 20500
USA
Tel: +1- 202- 456- 1111

But please wait for him, he is in France right now to attend a summit. Though I know he will tell you Pkaistan is an ally and US is doing what it seems necessary, but you can still try to sell him your opinions. You guys are keep wasting time on reuters blog, while military and economic assistance keep pouring in to Pakistan.

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive
 

Punjabiyar reckons:
“Its only Islam which consider itself vast on scale of number of followers. Hinduism don’t care how many followers practice it and it will survive even if there is only one hindu or even if there isn;t any hindu left. While Islam is dying despite of billion followers.”

Look there are 54 muslim nations in the world, Islamic Republics, Arab Kingdoms, Jamhuriyas etc. OPEC countries are overwhelmingly muslims possessing control on global oil supplies. Muslims are a power, if they control oil supply the western economies will choke and dry up like vapours. Just calculate the daily out of oil in barrels per day of Saudi Arabia.

India is a secular country, Nepal WAS a hindu Kingdom now they are a democracy after abolishing the monarchy. Give me name of a hindu country?

Look Punjabiyaar religion is always beautiful. I would have all the respect for hinduism, because there isi no such thing as evil. The lack of good is evil. There is no such thing as darkness, the lack of light is darkness. There is no such thing as hate, the lack of love is hate.

My message: Islam is a religion of peace.

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive
 

Umair the dodger writes: Mostly nonsense so far.

You simply denied the facts about public flogging, beheading, hand cutting etc as unIslamic. Then, you are following the method used by many who belong to militant organizations. I have come across LTTE propagandists, Hindu zealots, Christian fanatics, Skin heads etc.. So I can see the commonality of symptoms in you.

You not only dodged all my questions, but also switched into a deaf-ear mode. In this mode, people close their ears tight and start saying, “la la la la,” until the person who is talking to them gives up. Your method here is:

1. Islam is the fastest growing religion
2. Islam is the future
3. Islam preaches equality for women.
4. blah, blah, blah.

This tangential sweep immediately draws response for each item from reactive people. Noise is amplified. The original point is lost. As there are counter points raised for each one of the tangential issues that is raised, you throw in more tangential points – Give me the number of those who converted to Hinduism etc.

Then suddenly switch the topic and say terrorism inside Pakistan is India’s creation. Look at the number of responses from you as soon as I posted the reference to the video. This is called cover up technique. As soon as the thief is cornered, he throws glass beads towards the approaching crowd and every one who is running towards him steps on the glass beads, tumbles and falls and the thief makes an escape.

Good training. You are not alone in this. Fanatics are the same everywhere and their responses are very similar.

Let me see if you sincerely answer my questions. Go back a page or two and see what I asked you. I don’t need a lecture on Islam here. I know quite well about the limitations of religions and Islam is no exception to it.

 

Mauryan

I was in Saudi Arabia atleast three times, last on my way to South Africa in 2006, I evaded your questions because your not a muslim. You cant understand Islam.

However here is my reply: I break down your questions and will reply;

1. What do you mean by projecting Islam?
2. Isn’t public flogging, stoning, cutting hands off, beheading, beating up one’s wife etc sanctioned in the Quran?
3. What is there to project?
4. They do it openly in Saudi Arabia. Wasn’t Taliban welcomed by people like you for providing quick justice?
5. I remember that when discussions about truce with the Taliban was announced in the Swat valley. Now why are you trying to deny it?
6. Who are these elements?
7. Are you saying that the Taliban are non-violent peace makers?
8. Any one can show you that public flogging is a part of Shria in any declared theocratic Muslim state. In Iran they do it openly. Why are you trying to hide?

MY ANSWERS BELOW:
——————————————————-
1. By Projecting true image of Islam I mean to stand up and let the world know what Islam truly stands for, now thats pretty straight forward.

2. The Quran preaches to pray 702 times, many times in many verses Quran says to obey Allah(God) give alms to poor, respect parents, dont indulge into sinful behavior, it has 114 chapters. Quran is a vast book and yes it has verses that explain punishments for certain acts. But you are deliberately trying to misinterpret Quran. Go to Saudi Arabia, when the call of prayer is heard, jeweller shops are left open with and shop keepers and customers proceed for prayers in Mosque. No one steals as a hand of thief is cut in Saudi Arabia. In South Africa and west, armed robbery and car jackers go on rampage and get away with it.

3. The positive aspects of Islam are many and they need to be projected.

4. A Canadian citizen in Saudi Arabia on death row but everyone is given a fair trial, if you smuggle drugs in Saudi Arabia you head is chopped. Smugglers would urinate in the airplane before they dare smuggle a milligram of cocaine through Jeddah airport customs. In Johannesburg, Columbians smuggle truckloads. Taliban were welcomed only by poor Afghans who were sick and tired of war lords, the Taliban stabilized Afghanistan, gave protection to the weak against the warlords.

5. I dont live in a fools paradise, Taliban are a force to be reckon with. Lets accept them as human beings, bring them into mainstream and educated them. They will shed their illetracy and live like any other muslims in the world.

6. These elements are Uzbeks, Chechens, the Russians are involved, I have been talking to serving Pakistan Army officers, the elements are involved in violence in tribal area to destabilize. Taliban spokesman accused same elements to malign the Shariat and Islam. They should be seen seperate from local people who disapprove barbaric acts of violence.

7. I am not saying Taliban are non-violent peacemakers, what I am asserting is Taliban are not blood thirsty hounds. Lets find a grey area and accomodate them and bring them into mainstream.

8. Iranians are Shia, muslims have two sects, Sunni which are large in number and more predominant, Shias are mainly concentrated in Iran, Syria, some in Lebanon and Pakistan ofcourse. Islam is a vast religion. Pakistan is an “ISLAMIC REPUBLIC” where the constitution says no law will be promulgated in the country against Quran and Sunnat. In this age of internet and media I am not trying to hide anything, if they do public floggign in Iran I dont care. I am only telling you that Public flogging(except for islolated incident in Swat)is not done in Pakistan as a progressive muslim country.

———————————————————

Mauryan, do some research, the west is plagued with alcoholism, while muslim nations largely are not. There is rape and prostitution, domestic violence, armed robberies, car jacking, serial killing, drug abuse, …..the list is so long. Most muslim countries have very low crime rates in the abovementioned crimes.

I am open for further rebuttals. But this is not a war of words, argue with me nicelay and I will talk to you.

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive
 

Umair Wrote:

“Look there are 54 muslim nations in the world, Islamic Republics, Arab Kingdoms, Jamhuriyas etc. OPEC countries are overwhelmingly muslims possessing control on global oil supplies. Muslims are a power, if they control oil supply the western economies will choke and dry up like vapours. Just calculate the daily out of oil in barrels per day of Saudi Arabia.”

Once again you started singing how great is Islam on basis of people who follow it, If islam was that great there would not be any non muslim in present world. That superiority complex will drown islam one day, just like it had drowned other religions and civilizations.

On the oil note, if West had not given you technology to extract oil and refine it for IC Engines, you people will still be living in stone age, riding donkeys as in Danish Cartoons. Seriously can you stop oil exports to west ? Do you think Saudis or any middle eastern country have capacity to stop an attack for oil ?

Posted by punjabiyaar | Report as abusive
 

Ounjabiyar you are an Islamophobic.

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive
 

In response to you bringning up the Danish Cartoons:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jyllands-Po sten_Muhammad_cartoons#cite_note-3
A consumer boycott was organised in Saudi Arabia, Kuwait (led by MP Waleed Al?Tabtabaie[48]), and other Middle East countries.[49] For weeks, numerous demonstrations and other protests against the cartoons took place worldwide. Rumours spread via SMS and word-of-mouth.[50] On 4 February 2006, the Danish and Norwegian embassies in Syria were set ablaze, although with no injuries. In Beirut, the Danish Embassy was set on fire,[51] leaving one protester dead.[52] The Danish embassy in Teheran was also torched.[53] Altogether, at least 139 people were killed in protests, most due to police firing on the crowds,[1] mainly in Nigeria, Libya, Pakistan and Afghanistan.

Several death threats and reward offers for killing those responsible for the cartoons were made,[54] resulting in the cartoonists going into hiding.[55] Four ministers have resigned amidst the controversy, among them Roberto Calderoli and Laila Freivalds.[56] In India, Haji Yaqoob Qureishi, a minister in the Uttar Pradesh state government, announced in February 2006 a cash reward of Rs 51 crore (roughly about US$11 million) for anyone who beheads “the Danish cartoonist” who caricatured Mohammad.[57][58][59] Subsequently, a case was filed against Haji Yaqoob Qureishi in the Lucknow district court in Uttar Pradesh and demands were made for his dismissal by eminent Muslim scholars in New Delhi.[60] Condoleezza Rice, Secretary of State of the United States accused Iran and Syria of organizing many of the recent protests in Iran, Syria and Lebanon.[61]

The Western media dubbed the series of demonstrations organized in February 2006 by certain Middle Eastern governments and radical clerics as the “Cartoon Intifada”.[62]

On 9 September 2006, the BBC News reported that the Muslim boycott of Danish goods had reduced Denmark’s total exports by 15.5% between February and June. This was attributed to a decline in Middle East exports by approximately 50%. “The cost to Danish businesses was around 134 million euros ($170m), when compared with the same period last year, the statistics showed.”

————————————-
Atleast muslim stand up and make their presence felt across the street and corners of the world when their religion and way of life is attacked.

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive
 

Umair Wrote:
“Taliban are a force to be reckon with. Lets accept them as human beings, bring them into mainstream and educated them. They will shed their illetracy and live like any other muslims in the world.”

You are contradicting yourself, you are speaking of educating talibans and forgive their sins. But in Saudi you advocate cutting hands of a thief and behead a drug smuggler. Thief is a human being too, so it a drug smuggler. This double standard exists only in one religion that is……

You also write
“the west is plagued with alcoholism, while muslim nations largely are not. There is rape and prostitution, domestic violence, armed robberies, car jacking, serial killing, drug abuse, …..the list is so long. Most muslim countries have very low crime rates in the above mentioned crimes.”

Alcholism is as bad as drugs, Afghanistan is a Muslim country and yet one of the largest grower and exporter of Opium. You speak of rape and prostitution, we all knows what you do with Mukhtaraan Mai in name of islam. Islam legalized prostitution in name of Polygamy.

You also speak of domestic violence, Islam allows to beat the wife when she refuses to obey the husband. This is Hypocrisy you are preaching.

Posted by punjabiyaar | Report as abusive
 

“Atleast muslim stand up and make their presence felt across the street and corners of the world when their religion and way of life is attacked.”

Yeah Yea Yea, what did you get in last, Cartoonist did not feel even sorry! Instead new series was released.

Saudi Oil is still flowing towards Denmark, Pakis still queue up in front of USA embassy for Visa.

Posted by punjabiyaar | Report as abusive
 

“Ounjabiyar you are an Islamophobic.”

Yes I am afraid of this cancer. So what ! Everybody is a Islamophobic today, no body know where will be the next islamic attack

Posted by punjabiyaar | Report as abusive
 

Punjabiyar
“Pakis still queue up in front of USA embassy for Visa.”

yea yea yea and the Swdish, Germans, Canadians, British all stamp their passports. You would find them working, living and studying every where in the world.

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive
 

@Umair,

In response to your statements, if Islam is a religion of peace, why so many Genocides of other nations? Why so many beheadings? Why are non-muslims treated like Dhimmi’s and Kaffirs? Why are women treated like meat? or even lower than a dog?

Don’t forget, its the Quran that is the manual for the suicide bxxbers, they often raise the great book and say the name of allah before they kill. They were reciting the Quran, before they behead and kill, they were not reading a Spiderman Comic before they behead their innocent victims.

If Islam is so peaceful, why has it not spurned even one peaceful person, who is famous or advocates non-violence, equality or rationality? Why has there not been one person like Gandhi, Martin Luther King Jr. or another great pacifists?

Just a parting few words of thought please find the below verse, I believe it was one of those peaceful ones you are referring to:

8:12- “I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off.”

Yes, peaceful indeed.

If you notice suicide bxmbers and terrorists often shout Allahu Akhbar before they kill and behead, these guys are quite proud of their Islamic background. You never see hindus, christians, sikhs and buddhists do these things….why??

Posted by Global Watcher | Report as abusive
 

Umair,

Thanks for your replies. I have never questioned the spiritual aspects of Islam. Every religion has two sides to it – spiritual and social customs. The latter one gives the identity to the followers of a religion.

Every religion has questionable social customs. We all know what Sharia rules prescribe. But it feels terrible to see a poor girl being beaten so brutally. No one is holding you responsible. Just because you are Muslim and the Taliban are Muslim, you don’t have to defend their actions. That is why you got the response you got. What you should have done is condemn it out right instead of defending Islam (fastest growing religion etc). If you are fair, express fairness where it matters. Everything inside Pakistan is not perfect as you believe. There are holes in every system. India has a lot of holes too. And we will not deny it when mentioned.

The problem we find with you is that you are over defensive and without even thinking, you get into a denial mode. If you see others, they argue between each other some times on different issues. No one has a unanimous voice. i have argued with Rajeev, Anup etc on Kashmir. Everyone’s opinion counts. But blind statements which become repetitive are useless.

We all respect Islam as a religion. We may not like some of the social customs in Islam. Hinduism has its own social issues too and we admit that – we still have caste prejudice in pockets, backwardness etc.. No one is denying that. But we also know that there is at least an effort in place to come out of these maladies and they take time.

Most countries which became US allies have prospered – Japan, Malaysia, Singapore, Taiwan, UK, West Germany and so on. China has become one of the largest economic power houses by working with the US. Even India has leap frogged into a higher economic status due to business alliance with the US. Pakistan, on the other hand, has been a dear ally of the US for over 50 years. Look where it has reached? Can you simply blame external reasons for this condition? No. Your culture is war mongering and it prides itself in acquiring weapons and over building itself in terms of military capability. India is not a threat, but your leaders have used this as a ploy to arm your country to its teeth. At the end, nothing has been done to build your country. Taliban is a result of economic backwardness. Youth take up arms because of unemployment and no proper education. In the US, they have gangs like Bloods and Crips who are made up of urban youth who grow up in drug infested poor neighborhoods. I see no difference between them and the Taliban. But they do not justify their actions in terms of the Bible.

The next time, try to be fair and you will not see such a harsh response from me and others. Everything Pakistani need not be the greatest thing in the world. You guys need help and we will gladly do that if you reach out to us. If you turn against anyone, they are going to turn hostile.

 

@Mauryan,

Mauryan, you are right, every religion has some questionable things about it. So long as it makes you a better human being towards others and don’t look at others as inferior, I think that is a respectable way to practice one’s religion. I however do not respect those that turn a blind eye to backwardness, to basic human dignity and decency and call themselves believers in God. I also do not respect someone who does not have the sense to realize that rules and customs from the desert, from the year 800 do no apply in a modern context anymore.

It is that backwardness, that no body is willing to reform or question, because they consider their foundations too weak to be questioned in a rational and sane manner. To question one, often provokes angry, violent outbursts, often doing this to leave the question unanswered and to divert the issue and at the same time, hoping to instill fear at the person asking the question.

I don’t agree with every custom and practice in Hinduism, but I believe in the good things it preaches, like compassion, sharing, helping others. Hinduism has less to do with expansionist religious thinking than it has more to do with living a good life day by day.

In Hindu religion, it never mentions killing, or lopping off of any body parts, or conquereing over those who do not believe what you do. Its more about live and let live.

Posted by Global Watcher | Report as abusive
 

@Mauryan,

I am also in favor of helping Pakistan economically and co-operating on many levels on the following pre-conditions:

-Remove hatred towards India as enemy from all forms of Literature in Pakistan, from Madrasa to University

-Cease and desist all Pak Army and ISI connections of any kind with any Taliban, with any Extremist Islamic Elements, especially Kashmiri militants

-Destroy LeT, JuD, etc

-Shrink Pakistani army, so as to remove the parasitically huge economic footprint left on the heads of the Pakistani’s, so get the Fauji’s to grow food for the Pakistani’s to better weather food shortages

-Change Pakistani constitution to make all non-muslims legally equal of any Pakistani muslims, in every respect

-Denuclearize wholeheartedly, no exceptions. Pakistan does not need nukes against India, India has them to keep nuclear parity with China. Pakistan should be more weary of an American invasion.

In return, India will keep the promise of no first attack on Pakistan. India would provide all means of civil and social growth as it has been doing in Afghanistan.

Posted by Global Watcher | Report as abusive
 

Mauryan
I understand your concerns, let me tell you FYI that Pakistan Chief justice has summoned the girl into court and ordered the local Police in SWAT and NWFP Provicial government to come up with an explanation.
The poor girl is not helpless, she is a Pakistani citizen and her countrymen marched and fought for independent judicial system in Pakaistn. That system has already begun the process to address the injustice done to her. Lets see what Chief Justice Iftikhar Chaudhry has to say when the girl is brought to the court, the accused will get punished.

Lastly, Mauryan we Pakistanis dont need anyones help. We stand on our own feet, we dont need clutches. The world need Pakistan’s help. The war on terror might be going on many fronts. But ultimately it will be in Pakistan if it is won or lost. Be rest assured, Pakistan is not a threat to any other country, nor we will allow any country to threaten us. Pakistan will never allow any millitant gangs to challenge Pakistan and launch attacks on others.

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive
 

Umair writes: Mauryan we Pakistanis dont need anyones help. We stand on our own feet, we dont need clutches. The world need Pakistan’s help. The war on terror might be going on many fronts. But ultimately it will be in Pakistan if it is won or lost. Be rest assured, Pakistan is not a threat to any other country, nor we will allow any country to threaten us. Pakistan will never allow any millitant gangs to challenge Pakistan and launch attacks on others.”

Umair, again you are in denial. Pakistan is relying on American financial aid, Saudi aid, Chinese military help and so on. Pakistan alone will not be able to handle the menace that is threatening its integrity and survival. There was a religious practice called “Thuggee” in India and it lasted many centuries. It had spread so much into the system that people had accepted it as a part of the system. The English word “Thug” is derived from this term. “Thug” means to deceive. In the name of Goddess Kali, people engaged in strangulating innocent travelers during a particular season every year. People who were normal otherwise, participated in it as a religious duty. It had turned people blood thirsty and it continued even during the initial stages of the British empire. It took a courageous Englishman named William Sleeman, who went after this cult and helped wipe it out completely. Thousands of criminals were captured and put to death. Some of these criminals had killed countless number of innocent people. In the name of religion people should be careful not to engage in certain acts. Religion is a very sacred thing for ordinary people and if they take these acts to their hearts, then the acts become justified and become accepted. What the Taliban and Al Qaeda are doing are precisely the same. And they are eroding sanity in people. When economy is bad, this erosion gets stronger and backwardness sets in and blinds people completely. Do not say Pakistan does not need help. You need external help. By yourself you will not be able to do it. Those who are controlling your country (ISI, military etc) have strong allegiance to these extremist organizations. Your country needs our help man, don’t deny it.

 

Umair wrote:
we Pakistanis dont need anyones help. We stand on our own feet, we dont need clutches. The world need Pakistan’s help.

In rebuttal I must state that the Islamic Republic of Pakistan has formally asked for money from the IMF on 2 occasions in less than 20 years. The president of the Islamic Rebuplic of Pakistan, Mr. Zardari, has travelled to numerous countries (China and Saudi Arabia) asking for loans and oil defferments. The president of the USA, Mr. Obama, has pledged $7.5 billion over the next 5 years in military and financial aid to the Islamic Rebuplic of Pakistan.

Umair, even if you state that Pakistanis do not need help then please tell President Obama that he can keep the money.

Posted by bulletfish | Report as abusive
 

Global watcher:
“I am also in favor of helping Pakistan economically and co-operating on many levels on the following pre-conditions:”

My friend keep your economic help with you, we will keep our nukes. We dont need your help even if its unconditional. Pakistan Army has its modernization plans on course, ISI has no chance of being dismantled, Pakistani nukes kept under strict command and control, India must keep the option of first attack on Pakistan by all means, but must be aware of Pakistan’s counter attack capabilities.

Global watcher Pakistan will never let India dominate the region Pakistan will always be a challenge to India. We are not Bangladesh Afghanistan or Sri Lanka

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive
 

Ladies and gentlemen,
You guys have good discussion going on, but please do not mix acts due to traditions with Islam. We all knew Muslims and Hindu lived together for long time and in current Pakistan there are many people with ancestories shared with Sikh and Hindus (look at last/family names of many pakistani parlimentarians). So there are many acts committed by people due to traditions but they named them after religion.

If you look at the basic teachings of major religions (Christianity, Islam and Judaism), they all teaches peace and kindness, but in order to provide justice you need to have tough punishments so that no one dare to commit crimes, but at same time Islam always teaches that Allah/God likes forgiveness the most.

As far as acts of Talibans are concern, unfortunately they only implemented one part of Islam and didnt not implemented social, economics and governance part of Islam. Plus Taliban are not the true flag carrier of Islam, since many of the talibans are the orphans of Afghan war, who were abundand by US/Saudi Arabia after the disintegration of USSR.

Since these were orphans with no where to go, they ended up in Madrasas (best welfare center for people, where these people get food, shelter and education, all for free). As Pakistan does not have government run welfare system such as EI etc in west, so Madrasas is a place for poor people. Now most of the instructors in these madrasas are people with similar background and education (not many real Ulema), thus lack of knowledge of Islam resulted in setting bad presedence.

If you guys look at the history of Afghan war, you will know that after USSR disintegration, afghans were abundans by all parties, and resulted in power war amongs different afghan war fighters (ethnicities). Since foriegn aid for afghan refugees (3 millions in pakistan) was stopped, afghanistan was ruined and in fighting of warlords made it even more insecure, so no single refugeee was willing to leave pakistan, plus more refugees started to come to pakistan due to infighting.

Now Pakistan (not an economic power) have no option but to find a way on its own to stabalize Afghanistan so that these refugees could leave. therefore, with the help of ISI, pakistan encouraged these people to go to Afghanistan (it was done during PPP a secular party government). And they successfully controlled most of the Afghanistan, but in a war torn country, where there was no infrastructure, no jobs, no institutions, it was not possible for them to control Afghanistan easily (look despite full economic and military help from NATO, US and West, Karzai still can’t rule more than 5 % of Afghanistan), so do not blame Taliban (uneducated, helpless people).

Some of you are talking about growing opium, what would you expect them to grow in a country where you have nothing – at least from opium they could get significant cash. If you blame them for growing opium, why do not you blame those who buy it and and use it. If organized countries like west, if they could stop their nobel, civilized people from using Opium, I do not think Afghans will grow it.

 

@I didnt meant to start a war between Hinduism and Islam. I am just wondering how you read word by word and reply to each sentence. You are devoting so much time to prove what?
-Umair’s post
–In my message I said I am not bragging and did not put the development stage that a Hindu goes through, like you did–that tells nothing. Did you expect bloggers to read your message like a discourse or expected a response? I am not ready for a dose of religion–any kind of religion. This discussion is more relevant for the FAITH blog. Let us discuss the points than getting into the time you and I create for the Reuters.

@That Hinduism is superior to Islam? Ok so be it, it doesnt matter, do you find hindu temples in every single country and hindus in every single country? no.
Send me a list of famous hindu converts, lets compare hinduism and Islam and we’ll know which is the vast religion.
–Umair, by asking such questions are you not trying to prove the superiority of Islam, but in turn are blaming me? Think before you write. In any case, what will the stone structures (temples) prove, it takes a week to demolish them–you and I both know Mughal history. Do you acknowdge thousands of religious structures were demolished as the Islam spread? Now that is a relevent point and will be happy to hear how you handle this one. Also, it is quite understandable that new temples of all religions will be found in the West migrants of multiple religions live there. In Muslim countries including Pakistan, the construction of non-Muslim structures is banned due to religious intolerance (to me this is BS but to you this is “Islamic”–there is a difference what “(un)Islamic” can mean. Idea of religion in mind is more imprtant than stone structure but I can help you if you are unconvinced or are we getting into childish conversation of counting such religious temples now? here I will point that you are more into idol worship since having a temple (a stone structure) is that important to you.

Umair: Central idea of many Muslims, especially with you, is boasting the spread of Islam–counting the # of people with Islam. Instead wish that the progress of given #s is above international average (quality) . The #s without quality becomes a burden on the planet. Also, you are right that Muslims are increasing in West. But Muslims in West are not thinking the way you think. The Muslim thinkers are finding ways to live in harmony with other religions since that is the way to be. Read some books or have a glance at what the relevence of the spread of islam–problems and the ways to overcome them. 1. The victim mentality central to your being will hurt the Muslims–as the thinkers feel. This is the mother of all troubles. 2. Religious pularism is a must and must be accepted. Both these are problems here. It is stupidity of the highest order to expect that 1000yrs down the line everyone will be Muslim. That is unnatural. # game is just saying “Poori ki poori kayanat pur hama kabza hoga” (we will rule the universe). West vs Islam (problem) will precipitate and the Muslims with new vision (mostly Europians) will play a central role in mediating solving this crisis. The old stinking ways of Muslims will be counterproductive and will delay the course. Nothing personal here.

Peace!

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive
 

@Be it Communism, Corporate Capitalism, Leninism, Marxism, Nazism, hinduism, I can tell you Islam is a complete code of life among all.
-posted by Umair

Umair: Also, by saying the above are you not trying to prove the superiority of Islam? This is a big rate limiting step of progress for you.

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive
 

Umair Wrote:
“yea yea yea and the Swdish, Germans, Canadians, British all stamp their passports. You would find them working, living and studying every where in the world.”

Haha What a joke, I cant stop laughing, Do you know how many rejections Muslims get from these embassies. Study the data first.

You sound like these countries needs pakis for work ? on the contrary pakis need to work/study/live in west coz they dont get enough opportunities in their own country. There is no security in Pakistan, from nowhere another paki run into the crowd and blow himself yelling “Allah hu Akbar.

Muslims are often called Mondays in western countries, you know why ?

BECAUSE NOBODY LIKE MONDAYS.

haha pathetic pakis.

Posted by punjabiyaar | Report as abusive
 

Flogging and stoning to death in Muslim countries.

http://wgaw.blogspot.com/2009/03/75-year -old-widow-to-be-flogged-1oo5.html
“”"A 75-year-old widow has been sentenced to 40 lashes and four months imprisonment in Saudi Arabia for meeting two young men, who were strangers to her and were reportedly bringing her bread.”"”

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnew s/article-1081214/Somali-girl-pleaded-me rcy-Islamists-stoned-death-raped.html
“13-Yr old Somali girl ‘pleaded for mercy’ before Islamists stoned her to death for being raped”

“Eight women and a man face stoning in Iran for adultery”
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/jul  /21/iran.humanrights

“”1996-MAR: Afghanistan: Some strict interpretations of Islamic law calls for the death penalty for any woman found in the company of a man other than a close family member. Sexual activity is assumed to have happened. A woman, Jamila, was found guilty of trying to leave the country with such a man. She was caught and stoned to death on 1996-MAR-28.”"

And forced marital sex (rape) legal in Afghanistan

Facts relevent to the on-going discussion.

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive
 

Flogging and stoning to death in Muslim countries.

http://wgaw.blogspot.com/2009/03/75-year -old-widow-to-be-flogged-1oo5.html
“””A 75-year-old widow has been sentenced to 40 lashes and four months imprisonment in Saudi Arabia for meeting two young men, who were strangers to her and were reportedly bringing her bread.”””

“13-Yr old Somali girl ‘pleaded for mercy’ before Islamists stoned her to death for being raped”

“”1996-MAR: Afghanistan: Some strict interpretations of Islamic law calls for the death penalty for any woman found in the company of a man other than a close family member. Sexual activity is assumed to have happened. A woman, Jamila, was found guilty of trying to leave the country with such a man. She was caught and stoned to death on 1996-MAR-28.””

And forced marital sex (rape) legal in Afghanistan

Facts relevent to the on-going discussion.

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive
 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnew s/article-1081214/Somali-girl-pleaded-me rcy-Islamists-stoned-death-raped.html
“13-Yr old Somali girl ‘pleaded for mercy’ before Islamists stoned her to death for being raped”

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive
 

Umair goes back to the tree top again: “Pakistan will never let India dominate the region Pakistan will always be a challenge to India. We are not Bangladesh Afghanistan or Sri Lanka”

I thought some glimpse of sanity came from you. Looks like you are too addicted to power and dominance. Realize that no one is trying to dominate others. Every country is trying to survive and progress. They get into conflicts when other countries either get into trouble themselves or drag them from behind. You can keep your nukes. India has matured and moved on. It is not a ruthless country like China. Do not make an enemy out of a country because of paranoia.

If you as an ordinary citizen can have such a venomous attitude, I can imagine how those who run your military and intelligence must be in their mindset. You have gone blind and are unable to see the fire that is spreading from inside your country. All I can say is good luck. But we will do everything from protecting us and making sure that the fire does not spread into our territory.

Just piling up weapons will not give any security. At some point, they will fall into the wrong hands and the wrong hands might well be uniformed officers.

India should look at creating minutemen like civilian units that can respond in keeping order and conducting rescue operations. I don’t think the security forces and police alone can do this. When they get busy, the minutemen will be able to step in and maintain law and order. We will need an enormous investment in anti-terrorism drills in schools, colleges etc. It is like living in an earth quake zone. They have to have our citizens prepared and be ready to fight the terrorists who are unleashed into the middle. We have a nation of lunatics in our vicinity.

 

Umair,

Here is one more for you – from a respectable newspaper from your own country. Realize that there is nothing wrong in admitting about the malignant cancer that has begun to eat your country. Hope you and others will do it before it is too late.

http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/dawn -content-library/dawn/news/pakistan/the- threat-is-real-hs

 

Just to bring the topic back in line about the Taliban charting an independence course; this news just reported:

BBC News:
A powerful explosion has rocked the heart of Pakistan’s capital Islamabad, reports say.

These Taliban can stay in Pakistan for all I care. I will not allow them to cross the border!

Posted by bulletfish | Report as abusive
 

The latest attack in Islamabad by jehadis, islamic fundamentalist and followers of radical islam, for them all the killings in the name of islam is justified, is a grim reminder of mayhem caused by same Pakistani islamic radicals in Mumbai.

Pakistan is now getting taste of its own medicines, those who sit in glass houses donot throw stones on others’ houses .

It is my advise to all Pakistanis, you still have time, you must come out of denial mode , accept the realities, Pakistanis must clean their house and get rid of terrorists living on their soil.

Posted by Great India | Report as abusive
 

Umair wrote

……………..we Pakistanis dont need anyones help. We stand on our own feet, we dont need clutches. The world need Pakistan’s help. The war on terror might be going on many fronts. But ultimately it will be in Pakistan if it is won or lost. Be rest assured, Pakistan is not a threat to any other country, nor we will allow any country to threaten us. Pakistan will never allow any millitant gangs to challenge Pakistan and launch attacks on others……………

Perfect. Super. How do we get there though? Whats the gameplan?

 

@all Bloggers,

Thank you for summing up Radical Islam.

Give Radical Islam not one inch. Crush it from every side with overwhelming and punishing sledgehammer might.

Protect the free world and democracy and human rights.

May moderate muslims make up their mind and join the fight against irrationality, barbarism, backwardness, and most of all EVIL.

Posted by Global Watcher | Report as abusive
 

Sanjiv,

Dude, you’ve to come up with better posts. This blog is a virtual dogfight zone rife with allegations and counter-allegations.

Posted by Nikhil | Report as abusive
 

Umair wrote:

we Pakistanis dont need anyones help. We stand on our own feet, we dont need clutches.

-Bulls**t! GO and polish begging bowl!

The world need Pakistan’s help. The war on terror might be going on many fronts. But ultimately it will be in Pakistan if it is won or lost.

-YOU created this threat to cause proxy wars in India. Now it has turned and is a threat to YOU.

Be rest assured, Pakistan is not a threat to any other country, nor we will allow any country to threaten us.

-If YOU are not a threat to anyone then how come you consider India as YOUR number one enemy and all the while the terrorist attacks that occurred during March 2009 had nothing to do with India, but with the groups YOU created?

Pakistan will never allow any millitant gangs to challenge Pakistan and launch attacks on others.

-Again, bullsh**t! Pakistan has created numerous groups to wage war in Kashmir that has caused a lot of collateral damage. Not forgetting the LeT attack on Mumbai that targetted ‘foreigners’ and killed over 100 people. Followed by the cycle of denial by Pakistan only to admit later.

Umair, I know you do not drink alcohol, but you are drunk on denial. Time for you to sober up. Read: The ‘Talebanisation’ of Pakistan on BBC News (4th April 2009).

Posted by bulletfish | Report as abusive
 

An analogy of Pakistan today is that of a human body parts of which are cancerous. Whether the healthy cells can overcome the cancerous cells is for the healthy ones to decide. After using and harbouring terrorist groups against others it sounds hollow to claim victim status. Pakistani establishment has become past master at manipulating Americans to milk them of dollars. This is why the tribal areas and Afghanistan will remain forever disturbed. Pakistan has become a bottomless pit for American dollars. Naive Americans are only throwing good money after bad. If Pakistan self-destructs then contingency plans of USA, India and Israel must be already in place to prevent the strategic nuclear assets from going toxic.

Posted by Manu | Report as abusive
 

Pakistan has got to realize that the bigger threat is the Taliban and it’s fundamentalist views. However, in seeking an alliance with Pakistan against terrorists, America is courting a Muslim nation whose military is fixated on India.

I have a feeling that THIS is what the Pakistani Elite want:
USA to help solve the Kashmir problem. For USA to put pressure on India to leave Kashmir, then Pakistanis would gladly help USA against Taleban.

Its more like a typical tendency to link every problem in the world to the Kashmir issue. It sounds like this: if you don’t help Pakistan in Kashmir we will keep hurting ourselves and may even shoot ourselves in head. So, the USA should help Pakistan gain Kashmir when the same groups it used against India are now attacking Pakistan.

Yet Pakistan and the Taliban have made themselves the greatest existential threat to the United States, NATO, Europe and the world at large.

Posted by bulletfish | Report as abusive
 

I am flabbergasted by Umair’s comment.Do you work for the ISI or are you so lame!
We should understand the problem. All these basta*d generals heading the security establishments n the government want to keep us in this state if flux.
We need to rid ourselves of this excess baggage and fight the Taliban and the militancy causing insecurity all around.I am a realist.We have fought India more than 3 times and we think we can get Kashmir. This is what the army makes us believe and yet each time they have conceded more land. All I am advocating is to put an end to all such warfare and let both the nations forget this issue.I think Pakistan for one should do this.Open the borders with India even if they dont reciprocate( I am sure they will) and then people to people contact will clear the misunderstanding. We need to finish this proxy war first because it is bleeding us. Therefore resources can be directed to where they are needed.The military,elite etc have other ideas.They detest progress and love the status quo. Pakistanis lets rise beyond ourselves and forget Kashmir because reflecting on it would imply 60 or more years of war! Lets avoid deja vu!!

Posted by Suleman Maniya,Goteborg,Sweden | Report as abusive
 

@We should understand the problem. All these basta*d generals heading the security establishments n the government want to keep us in this state if flux.
- Posted by Suleman Maniya,Goteborg,Sweden

–Suleman Maniya, I have been reading ur posts. I think Pakistanis like you are doing a great favor to Pakistan, India and Kashmiris and all will progress because of this. But this is irrespective of ur views on Kashmir.

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive
 

Suleiman maniya writes: “Pakistanis lets rise beyond ourselves and forget Kashmir because reflecting on it would imply 60 or more years of war!”

Bravo! Suleiman, I am not saying this because I am an Indian. War is not worth it. It is good to have a military and weapons. But that’s about it. Countries should focus on growth and compete on that front. Pakistan could easily have competed with India on IT. It was an American ally right from the start and could have exploited that relationship to bring American industries and research institutions, built relationships between American and Pakistani universities, modernized in every way and become like Taiwan. Your leaders missed such a golden opportunity. Pakistan could have had semiconductor fabs in Lahore, Karachi etc. If the Americans had poured money into Pakistan in the 60s and 70s, your country probably would have been protected like a NATO country. American missiles would have been kept in Pakistan, facing the USSR. And no one would have dared enter Afghanistan. India was mired in socialistic swamp during that time under Indira Gandhi and her cronies. They deliberately kept India socialistic and poor in order to keep power to themselves. India had no chance then and Pakistan had everything. But your generals went after weapons. Let us hope your people win this time and turn Pakistan around. But I am afraid that you have more people like Umair and Aamir Ali in your population.

Your leaders went blind trying to bully India. See how much contempt does? It is not too late.

 

Suleman Maniya Goteborg Sweden

I am sending an email attention to the military attache, I am sure they would trace you and figure out if you have got anything to do with RAW.

Embassy of Pakistan
Stockholm, Sweden
Karlavagen 65, 1st Floor
SE-114 49 STOCKHOLM
Tel +46-8-20 33 00
Fax +46-8-24 92 33

http://www.PakistanEmbassy.se
info@pakistanembassy.se
consular@pakistanembassy.se

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive
 

The B*stard pig from Sweden is calling names to Pakistan Army Generals, while we Pakistanis salute our men and women serving in the Armed forces for their resilience and professionalism. Here is a video i would like to share with all you guys:

Wana Olives: Pakistan Army and its role in the war on terror
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ayxBSd7Ob Ds

This award winning documentary is a testament to the will and bravery of the soldiers of the Pakistan Army, many of whom have sacrificed their lives.

The son of Pakistan Army Surgeon General Lt. Gen Shaheed(Martyred) Mushtaq Ahmed was my class fellow.
I saw a hand written card left on the grave of Major General Javed Sultan martyred in chopper crash in Waziristan. The card was by her daughter, innocent words, the writing told she was still school going girl.

We salute our fallen heroes, we salute the families, Islam says Shaheed never dies. All the martyrs are alive, we just cant see them.

End this war, bring our soldiers back from Waziristan. We are not the sand diggers of anyone, let the Americans fight with their enemies. this is not our war.

Pakistan Zindabad!

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive
 

“Pakistan army has threatened newspapers their advertisements would be stopped if journalists on their staff won’t stop writing about missing Baloch schoolteacher Zarina Marri, 23.”
“Major General Athar Abbas, director-general of the Inter Services Public Relations (ISPR), a public relations arm of the armed forces of Pakistan said that Marri was captive in a military torture cell and being used as a sex slave and comfort women.”

Umair Says-
“we Pakistanis salute our men and ‘women’ (Zarina Marri?) serving in the Armed forces for their resilience(whose?Zarina Marri’s?) and professionalism.(or r*peism?)”

Posted by anup | Report as abusive
 

umair
“Mazhar Abbas, general secretary of the Pakistan Federal Union of Journalists, who said in an interview with Sweden based Radio Gwank that such barbaric atrocities are common in Pakistan.”

—Send this also to your ‘military attache’
-Embassy of Pakistan (add Attention: embassy of Global Terrorist, or else they’ll just ignore your mail as inconsequent ional )
Stockholm, Sweden
Karlavagen 65, 1st Floor
SE-114 49 STOCKHOLM
Tel +46-8-20 33 00
Fax +46-8-24 92 33

Posted by anup | Report as abusive
 

Umair:
Your this drastic move of no eventual consequence against Suleman Maniya Goteborg Sweden is undoing LongMarch and raising questions on the real intent of Pakistan to move towards democracy where freedom of expression with a reason is allowed.

Obsession about RAW?
And now who is obsessed.

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive
 

Rajeev
Pakistan is at war, our heroes are dying unsung. We want an end to this senseless war, so do those in America, Canada. With every single soldier lost, justify to their family that they died to protect freedom. People like Suleman Maniya are casuing insults.

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive
 

Umair writes: “Pakistan is at war, our heroes are dying unsung. We want an end to this senseless war, so do those in America, Canada. With every single soldier lost, justify to their family that they died to protect freedom. People like Suleman Maniya are casuing insults.”

Pakistan has been at war with India ever since 1947. Unless you call it “peace time.” War by itself is senseless. So tell your jihadi brothers to drop their arms and go do farming. Yours are not the only soldiers dying. Every country has lost its soldiers. And you guys conveniently disowned your soldiers at Kargil, whom our soldiers buried with respect. Telling the truth does not become an insult.

 

@Rajeev
Pakistan is at war, our heroes are dying unsung. We want an end to this senseless war, so do those in America, Canada. With every single soldier lost, justify to their family that they died to protect freedom. People like Suleman Maniya are casuing insults.
- Posted by Umair
-Umair, I understand that. It is given soldiers are doing the job they are given. But are those soldiers not dying bec, of the short-term and long-term flawed policies of Pakistani Army/ISI/civil govt. Same thing as in Iraq war, US solidiers did the job they were given but Bush’s strategy was wrong. Since Zardari is not in control of Army, it is the Army who has to take the blame. In India, it will be the Indian politicians who will be blamed under such conditions. It is ur call, but I suggest if u care about soldiers life, u will Qn the army generals who decide.

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive
 

Umair Wrote:

“The B*stard pig from Sweden is calling names to Pakistan Army Generals”

Umair MIND YOUR LANGUAGE, Will you ?

Posted by punjabiyaar | Report as abusive
 

Pakistan is going through a very trying time.

It is a country that lives in a part of the world where China, Russia and India were the neighborhood bullies.

With the rise of Al Qaeda and the tit for tat response of “take no prisoners” by the US, the whole neighborhood has gone bully whack.

Pakistan has been outflanked in its efforts to boost the Taliban and the Indian strategy has borne fruit with its allies aspiring to control Afghanistan.

The frontier province was always a no man’s land. Pakistan’s control consisted on having the tribal chiefs on her side. This could continue as long as Pakistan was the toughest kid on the bloc. The tribal chiefs have
taken on the Americans and no longer need to bow to Pakistan or anyone else. They now believe that they control their own destiny and Pakistan is nothing but a pet of the US.

While the US has announced billions in aid, it will go to waste. US Aid is channeled through consultants and corrupt politicians and by the time it gets to the target, its worth is no more than that of that piece of shrapnel that started as a million dollar cruise missile and now lies in between the blown out limbs of the unsuspecting as they slept in their two dollar mud
house.

Pakistan’s civil movement holds promise but it must not be directed not at fighting a battle that, by its continuation, will destroy the country. Its
energy must be channeled into efforts towards building a civil and just society in Pakistan.

The best that the US can do is not to send billions into Pakistan but by leaving Pakistan and letting Pakistanis and the frontier men run their own lives. The US and Pakistani bombing of the tribal areas destroys the
village where these fearless frontier men have dwelled for hundreds of years. Having lost their homes these proud angry mountain men, whose pride demands that every death be avenged, are descending to the valleys and
cities of Pakistan and exacting revenge. How can you convince them that it is wrong to brazenly kill innocent civilians when they themselves have witnessed the wholesale deaths of their innocent family members by unseen (cowardly) drones?

The people of Afghanistan did not consider the US its enemy, Al Qaeda did. By attacking an entire swath of Afghanistan, the US now has made an entire population its enemy and turned ordinary Afghanis (and now frontier
Pakistanis) into Taliban.

Posted by Mani Devaj | Report as abusive
 

Hey if the Indians had not stolen Kashmir in 1948, there would be no problem in South Asia today. Similarly if the Indians had not supported the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan, and then later different factions of Mujahideen forces, there would be much less problems today.

If US can waste $1 trillion in Iraq and hundreds of billions in Afghanistan, it can send some dollars to Pakistan as well. At least in Pakistan’s case it is getting valuable cooperation in war on terror, a war Americans themselves helped create by promoting and funding Afghan jihad of the 1990′s

Finally to the fellow from Sweden who is maligning Pakistan Army, go to hell.

 

Baluchistan- Naa Insafi Kaa Tadarak, An Article on a Burning issue of Pakistan

Dear Fellows

The latest Article of Mohammad Khalid Rana (President of Pakistan Thinker
Forum) is Published on Voice of People (www.VofP.pk ).You may click the following link

http://www.vofp.pk/cms/?p=1296

to read the Article An Article on a Burning issue of Pakistan

Baluchistan- Naa Insafi Kaa Tadarak

Regards

 

To Aamir Ali:
@f US can waste $1 trillion in Iraq and hundreds of billions in Afghanistan, it can send some dollars to Pakistan as well.

-There is one thing that no one can take from an indsividual even if poor—self respect. Please have some. 60 yrs since birth and still begging. Buddy, there is not money plant forest in US.

@At least in Pakistan’s case it is getting valuable cooperation in war on terror,

-Really! Siphoning off the money to Taliban and Pakistani Punjabi terrorists to trouble Kashmiris and Indians and spending money on planes but not buying night vision goggles from opem market in Peshawar. The world is watching you very closely now.

@a war Americans themselves helped create by promoting and funding Afghan jihad of the 1990’s”
-If you had spine you could have said BIG NO, rather than helping them for $$$$$$$. Go read history–it was not 1990s.

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive
 

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