Can Pakistan’s ISI sever ties with Taliban?

April 13, 2009

The United States has begun demanding rather publicly that Pakistan’s Inter-Services Intelligence make a clean break of its ties with the Afghan Taliban to help stabilise the situation in Afghanistan.

But can you force a country to act against its self-interest, despite all all your leverage, asks Robert D. Kaplan  in a piece for the Atlantic. And does it make sense for an intelligence agency to break off all contact with arguably the biggest player in the region?

Since President Barack Obama placed Pakistan at the centre of his strategy to fight the Afghan war, the debate over the ISI has gotten more open and more heated. Some Pakistani officials and experts with links to the establishment have taken exception to the United States openly painting the spy agency in enemy colours, accusing elements within it of supporting the Talibam.

Kaplan argues that Pakistan’s geography as well as a history of instability makes it almost impossible for it to cut ties to the radical Islamists. Pakistan and Afghanistan have a long and unruly border and that alone would make it necessary for security agencies to build a network of contacts with the principal players in Afghanistan.

On top of that, Pakistanis tend to see Afghanistan through the prism of the country’s unending conflict with India. “When they look to the west they envison an “islamisation” of Afghanistan and other Central Asian countries with which to face off against Hindu-dominated India to the east,” Kaplan writes.

So just as Israel will not scale back settlements in the occupied territories, frustrating U.S. peace efforts, or South Korea will from time to time extend an olive branch to North Korea, undermining U.S. efforts to contain the communist state, Pakistan, another one of America’s allies is not going to act against its core interest, he says. You can tell Pakistan to stop helping the Taliban plan and carry out operations, but you can’t tell them to cut links to the militant group altogether.

But isn’t Pakistan itself threatened by the Taliban? “Quetta Burns. Karachi on Edge. Islamabad on Alert”  ran a headline on the popular blog All Things Pakistan. Author Adil Najam says he wouldn’t recommend reading Pakistani newspapers for the faint-hearted. It’s a perfect storm, and if this doesn’t threaten Pakistan’s core interest what does?

[A protest in Karachi and Pakistan Prime Minister Gilani with chairman of the U.S. Senate Foreign Relations Committe John Kerry]

Comments

India threatens Pakistan more than the Taliban millitants, India dismembered Pakistan in 1971 and is still itching for another opportunity. Fortunatelyt, this time ISI is more powerful and Pakistan has nuclear weapons. If ISI is being accused openly of supporting the millitants, let is be known openly that ISI will keep protecting Pakistan’s national interests just like the MOSSAD does for Israel and CIA does for the US, MI5 for the UK, KGB for Russia and RAW for India.

I read in the Daily Urdu ‘Jang’ on Sunday that seven intelligence agencies are teaming up and establishing a joint action council in Kabul, those seven exclude ISI and are forming an alliance against ISI/Pakistan. Today ISI is being made an escape goat for coalition failures in Afghanistan. Fact is, ISI is today what CIA made it through OPERATION CYCLONE. ISI under its longest serving DG General Akhtar Abdul Rehman conducted the entire Aghan Jehad strategy to bleed the soviets out of Afghanistan (1979-1989). One must get to the history before start blaming ISI, let it be clear CIA is a rogue state within a state in he US, most coups in the world are planned in the CIA HQ in Langely, Virginia. While most of the focus always remains on the ISI HQ in Islamabad. The close relations between Langely and Islamabad need to be examined. Some of the frustrtations of Langely are been imposed on imposed on Islamabad and ISI is being blamed for all evil. Why?

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive
 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/79 89236.stm

Both the army and the ISI have rigorously denied the charges. And a security source told the BBC that the Americans had been given a sharp message to back off.

The Army Chief of Staff, General Ashfaq Kiyani, explained that “this kind of criticism was in no way helping us”.

At the root of this public discontent is Pakistani frustration with perceived American high-handedness.

Analysts say the army feels it’s being treated like a hired gun. Dawn Newspaper echoed that sentiment: “The Pakistani stance came as a rude shock to the Americans, who had so far been taking the civilian and military leadership for granted.”

“The bottom line,” Mr Qureshi said at the press conference, “is the question of trust… We can only work together if we respect and trust each other. There is no other way, nothing else will work.”

–In other words, Pakistan has told America in clear terms. Hey, look we ar enot your sand diggers, lets work it out together. Otherwise choice is yours, you might want to keep in mind that your choices with Pakistan are few. While Afghanistan and Iraq were not so dificult cake walks, a nuclear Pakistan will be far from picnic for American military power how powerful it may be. The language is clear, the signals are evident. BACK OFF AMERICA.

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive
 

Unless, Pakistan increases the cost everything from Intelligence cooperation to logistical supplies to NATO in Afghanistan, the US will keep taking Pakistan for granting and keep crying foul.

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive
 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kgg0hhpcp No
Holbrooke & Mullen visit Islamabad to discuss Obama’s new strategy for combating terrorism in Pakistan.

THE REAL CAUSE OF US-PAK TENSION: US ACCUSING SOME ISI OFFICERS OF SUPPORTING TALIBAN ELEMENTS AND DEMANDING THOSE OFFICERS BE REMOVED AND CERTAIN CHANGES BE MADE IN ISI JUST LIKE IN 1993 WHEN DG ISI LT. GEN JAVED NASIR WAS REMOVED FROM HIS APPOINTMENT AT AMERICAN BEHEST.

THE PROBLEM: THE ZARDARI LED GOVT. HAVING VERY LIMITED INFLUENCE OVER ARMY AND ISI AND IS UNABLE TO FULFILL AMERICAN DEMAND. SO IS AMERICA WILLING TO TAKE ON ISI AND PAKISTAN ARMY KNOWING ITS SPD(STRATEGIC PLANS DIVISION) CONTROLS NUCLEAR WEAPONS?

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive
 

U.S. officials meet resistance on visit to Pakistan
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HoigWYHp8 Yw&feature=related

“..but the Pakistani government and in particular the military intelligence establishment put up a good fight..”

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive
 

U.S. and Pakistan in the Wake of Holbrooke’s Visit
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-27neSxy do&feature=related

After a day of talks in Islamabad, U.S. special envoy Richard Holbrooke appeared to have achieved little.

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive
 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDbGn4jTT GI
Secret Government- Pakistan

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive
 

ISI owes its rise to power to the Americans. Americans are not angels and saints, they are just reaping what they sowed.

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive
 

Before anyone starts their ranting against the ISI, just take a few minutes to visit the links I have shared and study the history of the 10 year Soviet occupation of Afghanistan and the Mujahideen resistance to oust the Soivets from Afghanistan.

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive
 

A must watch for all Indians, the Youtube link above, titled Secret Government- Pakistan

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive
 

The Doctrine Of ISI:
IF THE USA IS WILLING TO COME ALL ALONG 12000 MILES TO SAFEGUARD ITS INTERESTS, THAN IT NOT NECESSARY THAT THE RADIUS AND CIRCLE OF OUR INTERESTS IS CONFINED TO OUR OWN BORDERS. WE WILL REACH FAR AND WIDE TO SAFEGUARD PAKISTAN’s INTERESTS.

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive
 

umair
i have gone through some pakistani blogs and websites and i m speechless. pakistan is in dire straits my friend..i dont care if u dont agree.
and india or US will not be able to do anything about it..its the pakistani people who have to do something about it..i m sure india will not interfere..

but i think the next few months will be very terbulant in the history of pakistan….which may even distroy the idea of pakistan..so its upto pakistanis to clean the mess.. i don’t understand why the govt is waiting for US to intervene and help them out, they need to have their plans..

Though i understand the helplessness of pakistani people but if govt could not clear this mess and taliban takes over pakistan…., this is something which doesn’t seem as impossible as it was earlier..

Posted by Raging bull | Report as abusive
 

umair
i have gone through some pakistani blogs and websites and i m speechless. pakistan is in dire straits my friend..i dont care if u dont agree.
and india or US will not be able to do anything about it..its the pakistani people who have to do something about it..i m sure india will not interfere..

but i think the next few months will be very terbulant in the history of pakistan….which may even distroy the idea of pakistan..so its upto pakistanis to clean the mess.. i don’t understand why the govt is waiting for US to intervene and help them out, they need to have their plans..

Though i understand the helplessness of pakistani people but if govt could not clear this mess and taliban takes over pakistan…., this is something which doesn’t seem as impossible as it was earlier..

Posted by Raging bull | Report as abusive
 

Umair, it seems like this blog has hit you under the belt. You are posting more comments than Taliban killing innocents.

The Doctrine Of ISI:
IF THE USA IS WILLING TO COME ALL ALONG 12000 MILES TO SAFEGUARD ITS INTERESTS, THAN IT NOT NECESSARY THAT THE RADIUS AND CIRCLE OF OUR INTERESTS IS CONFINED TO OUR OWN BORDERS. WE WILL REACH FAR AND WIDE TO SAFEGUARD PAKISTAN’s INTERESTS.

Future of Pakistan:
After starting an unwanted fight with US, US carpet bomb the major cities of Pakistan, most of the terror cells IN PAKISTAN ARE ELIMINATED, PAKISTAN SEND SOME OF NUKES ON INDIA, BUT CHINESE THINGS DON’T WORK ALWAYS. PAKISTANIS ARE FACING HUNGER AND HUMILIATION AT SAME TIME. PAKISTANIS BECOME CANNIBALS AND STARTED EATING EACH OTHER.

Posted by punjabiyaar | Report as abusive
 

Umair,

You seem to be losing a lot of sleep trying to defend the basis for the ISI’s existence, it seems you must have stayed up all night madly scratching down all those postings. Please stop posting doctrines and stuff from the ISI Propaganda pamphlets and training or cadet manuals it is boring us. The fact of the matter is that you guys truly suck at intelligence. You guys keep getting caught with your pants around your ankles and deny it, even when the picture is shown publicly. If the ISI had even an ounce of brain matter, they would have maintained good and honest contacts with RAW in India. Truly smart Intelligence agencies don’t act in a total cloak and dagger fashion, dirty tactics fashion, as does the ISI.

The Americans who setup the ISI long ago are gone, they are not in the government anymore. The ISI was supposed to help fight the Communist Soviets and it did that. It was not however contemplated by anybody that Pakistan would use those same terrorist strategic assets against India. The Soviets have been gone for 20 years from Afghanistan, but Pakistan has never turned off the Mujahideen fighting machine and in turn harnessed those guys to foment trouble in Kashmir.

On the issue of 1971 Bengal, you Paki’s systematically genocided 2.5 million Hindus and 500,000 muslims. I believe this is about the 20th time I am tell you this, but you still fail to acknowledge this bloody slaughter, I don’t know why. You Paki’s created a humanitarian disaster, and India was the only regional power capable of stopping you guys. If you had not of aggressed East Pakistan, Pakistan would still be East and West. You Pakis basically self destructed and brought about your 1971 land loss due to your own selfish entitlement and desire to rein over others.

Either way, through Talibanization or the USA, the ISI is going to be dismantled eventually, regardless of your patriotic ranting.

You often compare superpowers to Pakistan. Do not even think of comparing the ISI to the CIA. The ISI is just a “kulfi” stand compared to the CIA. The CIA also has the NSA, which uses project “Echelon” to monitor every single email, fax, phone call, mobile and every possible electronic data on the entire earth, simultaneously in real time and this is done via a very sophisticated mega computer. I for one am glad that the CIA is watching over this one.

Even Sadam Hussain had an intelligence agency, so did the Soviets, it was all dismantled eventually, and so will the ISI. Pakistan does not need an intelligence agency, nor does it need such an overbloated army with such a huge financial footprint. Pakistan needs more farmers.

As I said before, get your Punjabi Fauji’s and get them farming and doing something productive. Make shovels and rakes, not more guns.

Pakistan’s opium-heroin economy reached at least half the size of its official one, and in terms of exports may have surpassed it at one point, thanks to the ISI. That same opium ends up on the streets of Europe to line the pockets of the Crooked ISI. The cost of that Opium addiction is in the Billions to the West.

It is that same ISI opium money that goes to buy and pay Islamic Radicals and Taliban.

Please Umair, go grab some of your Fauji buddies and go grab a shovel, rake and do some farming today.

Posted by Global Watcher | Report as abusive
 

@Punjabiyaar

Lol at “PAKISTANIS BECOME CANNIBALS AND STARTED EATING EACH OTHER.”….

Punjabiyaar that would not happen..I don’t think human meat from cannibalism is Halal…hehe…but it may not necessarily be Haram, either.

;)

Posted by Global Watcher | Report as abusive
 

Body language tells a lot about the truth than mere words. Look at the number of posts by Umair defending the ISI. This is like the thief screaming, “I did not steal, I did not steal.”

Umair,

ISI is infested with Jihadi elements who are proving counter productive to American interests. When things go against American interests, they do not care. They just do what they think is right. Saddam Hussein realized this clearly. Pakistan is no Israel. The US will defend Israel at any cost. It will not do so in the case of Pakistan. Guess what, your country has been a sand digger all along. This is not the first time. So tell your generals to shut up and start digging. Americans realized that you guys were also digging around India unnecessarily. They have realized that so much digging has led to your foundations completely being taken away and your country is the on the verge of floor collapse.

Like it or not. The ISI is facing its moment of truth. No matter how many posts you make to defend your great ISI, it will be cut down to size. The US is going to see to that. So pick up that shovel and start digging sand.

 

Raging bull…
“pakistan is in dire straits my friend”

-Thank you for letting me know, sitting in the heart of Pakistan I couldn’t feel that. But thanks anyway.

“and india or US will not be able to do anything about it..”

-they dont have to, we will play it our way.

“but i think the next few months will be very terbulant in the history of pakistan”

- your’e not the first, 6 months back same people like you were predicitng Pakistan to be a failed state and collapse within six months. Now i hear NEXT six months are very cruical. Ok.
Secodly, Pakistan is not waiting for US to intervene, the US poked its nose itself in Afghanistan and got locked with a conflict with the Taliban. It was not the Taliban that smashed the planes onto the WTC than what the hell did the US came in looking for in Afghanistan? Osama Bin Laden? But then Osama was trained by the CIA to fight the Soviets. So back to square one. Today the US needs Pakistan more than Pakistan needs US and Pakistan is increasing the cost for the US.
And regarding Pakistani people being helpless, no my friend we are not helpless. We have all the resources on our disposal, our most powerful weapon is our unity and we can distinguish between our internal and external enemies and will eliminate them.

Lastly, looking at the over obsession that Indians generally have with the ISI, I have posted as many links for anyone who would like to know more about ISI.

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive
 

The blog is titled – Pakistan Now or Never -

I have gone through few blogs beside one on Pakistan, my question is to the Indians. Since this is to do with Pakistan I see so much hatred by the Indians towards the Pakistanis and seems to me indians are obsessed with Pakistan. Just because you have managed to get few call centres operating in India. It does not mean that you are a advanced nation, let me tell you there are more people who live on hunger in India than anywhere else in the World.

Beside that we have seen the treatment of minorties in India be it Muslims (Gujrat, Kashmir, Babri Mosque n so on), Christians (Buring of churcjes, forced converstion of christians), Sikhs (1984 etc) and dont forget the untouchables and countless other groups. It is all good telling the outside world we are the biggest democracy in the world but in reality, the facts on the ground tell a different story.

Pakistan has many problems but the biggest one is a true leadership like Mr Bhutto. Who can pull the country through these hard times and the ordinary pakistanis do not have any hope from Mr 110%.

Regards to my indian friends there is a lot more on reuters to post your comments on. But I guess if one is obssesed with something there is no solution.

Posted by John | Report as abusive
 

26/11 precipitated this. Too bad……

The worst still is some Pakistani bloggere belief that ISI is working for national interest.—Ask the Pakistanis who are suffering and are victims before punching the keyboard.

The product of CIA—playing victim? Even with this theory–If it it is so smart and powerful and the best and blah…., why it is allowing Pakistan to remain in CIA clutches?—–Dumb or impotent?

@Fact is, ISI is today what CIA made it through OPERATION CYCLONE.umair’s
———good or bad thing? seems good from below:
@ISI under its longest serving DG General Akhtar Abdul Rehman conducted the entire Aghan Jehad strategy to bleed the soviets out of Afghanistan (1979-1989).
—Giving the credit to ISI and being proud?

And then Umair says:
@One must get to the history before start blaming ISI, let it be clear CIA is a rogue state within a state in he US, most coups in the world are planned in the CIA HQ in Langely, Virginia.”
–So if CIA is rogue and is the mother of ISI, what does that make ISI?

Analysis Problem.

many experts in pakistan from Dawn who care about Pak bluntly say that there is no patriotism spirit when it comes to Jihadis, a lot for India—will be the fall of never-existing Pakistan empire.

I think Pak Army/ISI need to read Hindu scripture “Geeta” to sort their confusion over fighting with terrorists/taliban sharing Islam as religion. Seriously, and no need to convert too.

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive
 

John:
The question is
“Can Pakistan’s ISI sever ties with Taliban?”

Can it?
It is not about India. India can help Pakistan. It is not Hindu terrorism, but pure Islamic terrorism.

What are ur thoughts?

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive
 

Mauryan
“ISI is infested with Jihadi elements who are proving counter productive to American interests. When things go against American interests, they do not care. They just do what they think is right. ”

Thats what Pakistan did, clearly defined Pakistan’s interest. Let me repeat what Foreign Minister Qureshi said in the press conference in Islamabad last week with Admiral Mullen and Richard Holbrooke standing right next to him:

My people are under threat, my country is under threat, my cities are under threat, my first priority is my country’s interests.”

It is for America to decide how far they can go in recognizing Pakistan’s interests. I am sure Americans have learnt their lessons from Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan. Before they can even think of Pakistan, they are better off working it out with Pakistan rahther than against Pakistan. Lets see which way it goes.

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive
 

Umair,

For the past 60 years your country’s only interest is to out do India. That is what has led to today’s situation. ISI’s main interest is not protecting Pakistan. It is more than that. It is about becoming a regional boss controlling all evil organizations and unleashing them at will at its “enemy” which is India and nothing else. This is why the Americans came around told your bosses that India is not your enemy. And they emphasized the word “anymore.” ISI, having gone insane with India hatred, is unable to come out of it. Its entire focus has been to destroy India for whatever reason and it has planned all its alliances, strategies etc with this single agenda in its mind. Your leaders have been telling world powers all along that you will dig sand for them, but they should turn a blind eye when you are also using their shovels to dig India’s grave. And they did that until now. What has happened is that some of that sand has fallen into their eyes and they are shedding tears. So they decided to do one and only one thing – dig your own grave since you are already deep into it. Get on with it. Or else the Americans will bring big earth movers to dig deeper pits.

By the way, we never want others to suffer. But if they make it their business to hurt us, then we will wish them the same. If Mumbai had not happened, you would not see such a venom from Indians here. It was staged by your ISI. That is why your government and everyone involved washed it off, disowning the most patriotic Pakistani, Ajmal Kasab. We know it comes from the ISI through its evil enterprises like LeT. At some point, the fire you light is bound to burn you. Your country was so busy inflaming it, it forgot that it was still inside the house when it tried all this. Now you are trapped inside and it will only burn you. Your country is made of millions of Ajmal Kasabs. If all your targets are blocked, you will only turn around and shoot each other. Good luck.

 

“The bottom line,” Mr Qureshi said at the press conference, “is the question of trust… We can only work together if we respect and trust each other. There is no other way, nothing else will work.”

-THERE IS NO OTHER WAY, NOTHING ELSE WILL WORK.
Meaning, forget about war, work with us in our way, no other way will work. Its our way or no way.

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive
 

Mauryan writes:
“dig your own grave since you are already deep into it. Get on with it. Or else the Americans will bring big earth movers to dig deeper pits. ”

Hmm actually we surely are digging a grave, for India! and yes the poor Americans did threaten us to dig fast or else they would bring in big earth movers. Just then recession hit the American economy, caterpillar shut down its plant and stopped production, thousands of jobs were shed. Even the Ford and GM filed for bankruptcy. Treasury secretary has told very clearly to President Obama to hold his plans to send big earth movers to Pakistan to dig deeper pits till the next ten years. Also, big earth movers will be difficult to send in, since Mearsk Alabama was hijacked by Somali pirates in the Gulf of Aden, the US Navy cannot bear the high cost of shipping those earth movers to the port of Karachi. I mean are you suggesting guided missile destroyers escorting big earth movers all the way from America to Pakistan? in these times of deep recession? where Americans are committing suicide? Mauryan you got to be kidding!

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive
 

John Says:

Beside that we have seen the treatment of minorties in India be it Muslims (Gujrat, Kashmir, Babri Mosque n so on), Christians (Buring of churcjes, forced converstion of christians), Sikhs (1984 etc) and dont forget the untouchables and countless other groups. It is all good telling the outside world we are the biggest democracy in the world but in reality, the facts on the ground tell a different story.

John with 1.2 Billion people living together, it is inevitable that there is going to be communal friction. Despite all that above, 99.9999% of people in India get along, buddy, deal with it. India is inclusive and secular and a functioning democracy.

Pakistan is built on an ideology of racial supremacy and hatred and rejection towards India and Hindus. Why don’t you recognize that. Because Pakistan is an Islamic Republic, that means all other religions in Pakistan are constitutionally unequal. Pakistan is racist and supremicist by its very design. During Partition, Hindus dropped from 15% to 1.2percent today through violence, intimidation, forced conversions and death. You be the judge my friend.

The top post in India held by a Sikh, the top actors in India are muslim. In India, if one has sincere desire to succeed, they may, there is no religious based racist constitutional exclusion against people based on their religion in India, as there is in Pakistan. A Dalit woman in India has reached a high post. A muslim is the premier of Kashmir India there rest is on the internet for you to read, it is too numerous.

Given the population distribution in both countries, the minorities achieving their potential is greatly unreciprocal with regards to Pakistan. Pakistan will never let minorities thrive in high enough numbers to ever voice their dissatisfaction.

Pakistan is a racist, Islamosupremicist country incapable of honesty, sincerety, delivering on its promises, showing performance of any kind and unwilling to fight the war on terrorism and radicalism.

The only thing Pakistan will respect is muscle and the overwhelming might a barrage of cruise missiles or B-1B Lancers cruising over its cities, hitting their targets, resulting from a surgical U.S. strike to decapitate the Taliban, the ISI’s own strategic proxy jihadi army assets.

What Pakistan is unwilling to do, the U.S. will do it.

No permission is needed, no heads up is needed and no apologies will be given for doing the right thing for the security of the world.

Pakistan shall comply wholeheartedly or enter the next phase of its eventual demise.

Posted by Global Watcher | Report as abusive
 

The job of the inteligence agency is to safeguard the interest of the country. ISI which is trained by CIA but one has to admit that sometimes the student becomes superior then the master himself.

The concern that Pakistan has is simple India which is a much bigger country in size, resources etc and has already been in war with it four times in the last six decades. Why would the ISI give up the instrument of Jihadis which is one tool which keeps India in check. Beside that India has countless counslates in Afhanistan very close to the border with Pakistan I wonder why so many? But then I might have to agree with Pakistanis to fuel the insurgency in Balouchistan or to generaly destablise the country.

If you want to understand Pakistan, one needs to put himself in their position, which is they already have India on the East border why do Pkstn want them in their backyard (Afghanistan)? To encircle it, so this is the reason why Pakistan will NEVER give up contacts with these men of war.

Thats the backbone of Pakistan the exact people which were once written in the TABLOIDS of Western media under the heading “FREEDOM FIGHTERS”. (I still have few old papers just for proof), which included OBL etc. Now the same people have become the Monstor of the world…

To my Indians friends how many people have been brought to justice for Murder of over 70,000 kashmiris? or even for Gujrat? Countless rapes as well as trying to change the demography of KASHMIR. Infact the guy who masterminded the Gujrat rapes n slaughter of Muslims I think he is running for elections this year what a great democracy. I say this because I have had the privilage of going to India n Kashmir and speaking to the locals and realised how much they hate the Indian Occupying forces for the right reasons. The bottom line is if Pakistan is close to being a terrorist state India is not far behind and nor a SAINT as the few indian bloggers try to portray it….

Posted by Ismail Khan | Report as abusive
 

Global watcher:
” Despite all that above, 99.9999% of people in India get along, buddy, deal with it. India is inclusive and secular and a functioning democracy”

You are so stupid and just making a mockery out of yourself here. Now dont tell me it is the only 00.0001% that burnt alive Australian missionaries, killed Gandhi, assassinated Indra Gandhi and Rajeev Gandhi(by Sikh and Tamil extremists), killing of christians in Orrissa in 2008, demolition of Babri Mosque, Samjhota express bombing, Malegaon blasts, Mumbai killings, Gujarat massacres. Get your figures right, 25% of Indian population consists of low caste “Dalit” hindus living in absolute poverty and misery.
What John stated is absolutely correct, dont show off your TATA NANO and hide the communal tensions and problems that India is infested with. Muslims in India are treated as second class citizens, Indian citizens need to obtain NOC from interior ministry before they can travel abroad. Global watcher India’s true image will be pulicized more no matter how hard you try to hide the hindu fundamentalism.

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive
 

Global watcher:
“What Pakistan is unwilling to do, the U.S. will do it.

No permission is needed, no heads up is needed and no apologies will be given for doing the right thing for the security of the world.

Pakistan shall comply wholeheartedly or enter the next phase of its eventual demise.”

Dont expect the US to do anything for you, US will do nothing. US is a super power with global interests to take care of from the Atlantic to Pacific to Europe and Black Sea. US has no time to take care of India’s interests. Learn to fight your own battles, learn to protect your own interests. Against Pakistan, India is alone, no one will help you guys, no one will help you against Pakistan. You have to deal with us on your own, with your own resources. Dont expect the US to back you, permission is only granted for lawful acts and apologies given in case of mistakes carrie dout. In love and war everything is legitimate, fight us if you can. Stand on your own feet, stop looking upon the US. You are what YOU are, just because the US gave India civil nuclear deal, the US will also attack Pakistan because it will appease Indians. Global watcher your logic is absurd and absolute nonsense. Go F*** yourself.

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive
 

Pakistan’s ISI – IS- the Taliban.

“When they look to the west they envison an “islamisation” of Afghanistan and other Central Asian countries with which to face off against Hindu-dominated India to the east,” Kaplan writes.

—With what does this ‘Kaplan writes’??? be rest assured it’s isn’t written with the conventional writing tools nor is there any sign of him having used his stuff btw his ears. (a hint : search below the waist btw legs). Worst still! It’s given to understand that ‘many people who make and enact policy believe that Kaplan knows what he’s talking about(pity them).’ Phew, this guy’s suggesting that the Americans should appease & cajole the ISI because they’ve ‘angered’ them by (for speaking the truth) clubbing them with the Taliban & let them materialize their ‘vision’ of “Talibanization” of Afghanistan —and—and “other central Asian countries’, for what??? To challenge “Hindu-dominated India”, Duh, (did it not even for a moment occur to this dumb-ass that what does he expects the Russians will sit back & do? Play flute?.)

Posted by anup | Report as abusive
 

Mauryan writes:
“dig your own grave since you are already deep into it. Get on with it. Or else the Americans will bring big earth movers to dig deeper pits. ”

Hmm actually we surely are digging a grave, for India! and yes the poor Americans did threaten us to dig fast or else they would bring in big earth movers. Just then recession hit the American economy, caterpillar shut down its plant and stopped production, thousands of jobs were shed. Even the Ford and GM filed for bankruptcy. Treasury secretary has told very clearly to President Obama to hold his plans to send big earth movers to Pakistan to dig deeper pits till the next ten years. Also, big earth movers will be difficult to send in, since Mearsk Alabama was hijacked by Somali pirates in the Gulf of Aden, the US Navy cannot bear the high cost of shipping those earth movers to the port of Karachi. I mean are you suggesting guided missile destroyers escorting big earth movers all the way from America to Pakistan? in these times of deep recession? where Americans are committing suicide? Mauryan you got to be kidding!

while Mauryan enjoys taunting me, I enjoy replying to his taunts. Big earth movers, MY FOOT! Recession hit America and Caterpillar shutting down, auto sector and banking going down and NASDAQ crashing, wall street in tatters and America sending big earth movers. Can someone preach sense to mauryan?

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive
 

@Though i understand the helplessness of pakistani people but if govt could not clear this mess and taliban takes over pakistan…., this is something which doesn’t seem as impossible as it was earlier..
- Posted by Raging bull

–Even if Taliban takesover it will still be seen as of it is in interest of the nation if you consider this:
There are so-called good and bad Taliban, whosoever coined these terms. Then ONCE UPON A TIME, Taliban offered Pakistan to fight against India and then some Pakistanis want such terrorist elements to formally wear Pakistani Army uniforms, Taliban had a resume that shows its ability to (mis)govern a country (Afghanistn). I am sure (good) Taliban will soon be given formal place as a political party. So Taliban rule will still be considered Pakistani rule. To top it all, Behtula Mehsud and Mullah Fazlullah will be given Nishan-i-Haider.

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive
 

Muslims ruled India for 1000 years, so had plenty of time to convert every living thing in india.

But today 2009 even you are a living prove that they did not my friend. As your country has its problems so does your neighours maybe bit more but again my question is still ot answered why are indian obssesed with Pakistan??

Your views will remain as views NOT facts unless you cross the border and see Pakistan with your own eyes. I have had the privelage of seeing both countries and their history. Let me also reminf yu that Pakistan army is the biggest contrvuter to UN force for peace keeping purpose unlike the Indians who also have send army of rapest into DR of Congo or have we already forgot….

Posted by John | Report as abusive
 

Mauryan taunts Umair

“US will send in B52s.
US will send in drones.
US will send in Earth movers.
US will do this and that, be scared of the US.”

Oouuuuuwe, I am scared. eeeeeeh

Hell with it. Is there anything India can also send?
hahahhahaahh lol..lol..lol.

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive
 

John writes:
“Let me also reminf yu that Pakistan army is the biggest contrvuter to UN force for peace keeping purpose unlike the Indians who also have send army of rapest into DR of Congo or have we already forgot….”

Yes sure, I agree with you. Pakistan Army is the highest contributor to peacekeeping missions in the world as of today and has a history of professionalism and spirit to volunteer. While the Indians and Dutch have a dismal record. The Dutch Amry that was guarding UN safe houses during Bisnian war pulled out and surrendered to the Serbs and it is on the record that war criminals who are in Hague now, like Radovan Karadzic and Ratko Mladic perpetrated genocide of muslims. Where as Pakistan Army soldiers in Tuzl and Mostar who arrived later where ever they went volunteered with their own resources to protect and feed the local population, be it Haiti or Bosnia, carrying out dangerous operations and rescue/evacuation missions in Somalia and peace keeping in Africa. Pakistan Army has earned its respect globally.

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive
 

John writes:
“but again my question is still ot answered why are indian obssesed with Pakistan??”

I am with John here, My question also to all Indians is the same; why are Indians so obsessed with Pakistan? This blog is about Pakistan and most of the time Indians are reading and commenting. Why this much obsession? can anyone answer? Anup, Global watcher, Rajeev, Nikhil, Anitha, Raging bull, Mauryan, anyone?

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive
 

America can push any button it likes but the bottom line as said by the foreign ministerin a joint news conference “if there is NO trust nothing can be achieved”.

Which I have to totaly agree you can not go into someone house and just demand everything it aint going to work. You have to safeguard their intrests and good start would be to bring india to the table to sort the mess out in Kashmir. Implement the UN resoulution passed for Kashmir that would show the world India is sincere. Infact everytime there is little blast in India without a seconds hesitaion all the blame is on the Pakistanis even though the culprits are general within the indian army.

How cool is that you either need a good properganda machine or stupid populatio and it seems India has both. How lucky are you???

Posted by JOHN | Report as abusive
 

Maybe they are on Indian Government pay roll lol its a possibilty. The fact is none of these bloggers even post anything on the other bloggs beside Paksitan.

Posted by John | Report as abusive
 

Maybe they are members of the Hindu Terrorist outfit dedicated to see a greater India just for Hindus.

Ethnicaly cleansing Muslims, Christians does not promote the banner of greatest democracy in the world.

Irrelavent of what extrvagent words these indians with their oxford dictionaries opened front of erm find. The fact is simple Kashmir for kashmiris, PAK for pakis , Afghan for Afghnis. So who rateled Indian cage??? Monkey business I see………….

Posted by John | Report as abusive
 

I remember reading that even the British had some contact with the Talibans and were trying to come to a settlement or trying to at least marginlise the hardcore from moderates. But I did not see any critcism of that but Pakistanis do the same thing they are branded as doing something out of this planet. My friends we are only there for few years but Pakistan is there for ever and they will have to pick the pieces up.

Personaly I blame West for leaving the poor country on its own after they helped with their blood to defeat the USSR which was n is offcourse India best pal…

Now its come back to haunt them, as they say what goes around comes around. The best thing west can do is to help true democracy not a puppet regime in pakistan and work with them, through ecnomic, military aid and training in advanced warfare n anti terrorism raids.

But when you have yanks sitting in USA firing hell misiles at anytthing that moves be it wedding aprty. That is what is not helpfull and the genral public wihtin pakistan see it as a war imposed on them rather than there war which it is NOW.

Posted by John | Report as abusive
 

I guess the call center has closed now lol because I dont see any of our indian friends replying with a logical explaination.

Possible maybe their is a power shortage? lol

Posted by John | Report as abusive
 

John writes:
“but again my question is still not answered why are indian obssesed with Pakistan??”

Obsessed ?

We are only obsessed with India, if Pakistan is not attacking our establishments and doing attacks like Mumbai, We Indians will not even bother to spit towards Pakistan.

We are only concerned about pakistan because of the very same reasons USA is concerned about Al Quaida.

This is simple thing to understand, this is not rocket science

Posted by punjabiyaar | Report as abusive
 

John, actually Indians so far were only doing Paki bashing and repeating old arguments on this blog. They dont even know where is the CIA Hedquarter in the US. They are just new to this game, while Pakistan was involved since 1979. While all the Indian friends learn a thing or two, they will surely come up with some sensible explanations soon.

Now guys, dont let me down please.

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive
 

No, it can’t and it will not.

ISI created the Taleban as a phenomenon. ISI created al-Qaeda, which should be more worrisome for the world.

When you ask “can ISI svere ties with the Taliban”, it is the same thing as asking can ISI sever ties with Pakistan.

Get the formula right: Taleban + al-Qaeda = ISI
ISI + Taleban + al-Qaeda = Pakistan

If you succeed in destroying one of them, it would mean you have destroyed all of them, because they can’t be separated from each other. There is a mutual interdependency between the three.

Dismantling the destabilizing, terror sponsoring and colonial entity called Pakistan is the only way to get rid of Islamic extremism and terrorism.

So don’t forget al-Qaeda Mr. Sanjeev. That is also created by ISI.

Posted by kabura | Report as abusive
 

Punjabi yar writes:
“We are only obsessed with India, if Pakistan is not attacking our establishments and doing attacks like Mumbai, We Indians will not even bother to spit towards Pakistan.”

Finally one Indian tries to answer the question put forward to Indians. Atleast Punjbaiyar I appreciate your effort to try and answer. And I guess the recent shoe attack on Chidambaram, Indian home minister was also planned and ordered by ISI, the journalist also undertook shoe throwing training in an ISi sponsored shoe throwing training camp in Kashmir. Nice little explanation huh?

I hope ISI didnt sabotage the recent open heart sugery carried out on Manmohan Singh. Such is the pathetic level of your obsession with Pakistan.

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive
 

Umair the Braveheart!

“While Afghanistan and Iraq were not so dificult cake walks, a —“nuclear Pakistan”– will be far from picnic for American military power how powerful it may be. The language is clear, the signals are evident. BACK OFF AMERICA.”

—Bravo! That’s the spirit! Keep it up! C’mon Pakistan – Show these Americans what you’ll are capable of!

WOW man you’ve threatened them also with your ‘Nukes’ – I must say you’ll are a Gutsy lot. Now walk the talk & flush them out of Afghanistan.

Posted by anup | Report as abusive
 

@Muslims ruled India for 1000 years, so had plenty of time to convert every living thing in india.
-by John

–Then have symapthy for ur ancestors who converted to Islam and u r the product. What’s with the name John–job requirement?–that’s alright- but use ur grey matter if u have any left over the conversion issue.

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive
 

@Your views will remain as views NOT facts unless you cross the border and see Pakistan with your own eyes. I have had the privelage of seeing both countries and their history.”
- Posted by John

–Living in oldtimes. These days advanced countries have space programms to have a look at other countries without crossing borders. That was the era of bow and arrows.

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive
 

punjabiyaar / Global Watcher / Rajeev /
@John the Pakist
“It is all good telling the outside world we are the biggest democracy in the world but in reality, (blah blah)
“Pakistan has many problems but the biggest one is a true leadership like Mr Bhutto” (cough cough)
“Muslims ruled India for 1000 years,”(boo)
“Your views will remain as views NOT facts unless you cross the border and see Pakistan with your own eyes.” (yawn)
“Pakistan army is the biggest contrvuter to UN force for peace keeping purpose” (purrrr)
“the treatment of minorties in India be it Muslims (Gujrat, Kashmir, Babri Mosque n so on), Christians (Buring of churcjes, forced converstion of christians), Sikhs (1984 etc) and dont forget the untouchables and countless other groups.” ( bark)

—GUYS, don’t you see – he’s Umairs boss from the ISI anti-India propaganda cell!

Posted by anup | Report as abusive
 

@Now dont tell me it is the only 00.0001% that burnt alive Australian missionaries, killed Gandhi, assassinated Indra Gandhi and Rajeev Gandhi(by Sikh and Tamil extremists), killing of ………”
-posted by Umair

Umair, do the maths of 00.0001% of 1billion and u will find that Global Watcher is right. He underestimated.
Look at this Indian Muslim Video who also said nearly the samething and asked Musharraf to back off from India.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZO1sUdAdl NI

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive
 

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