Pakistan, India and the election manifestos

April 15, 2009

The world’s largest democracy chooses a new government in an election beginning on Thursday, and given the fires burning next door in Pakistan and Afghanistan, the men and women who will rule New Delhi over the next five years will doubtless exert influence over the course of events.

Indeed, with the pain and anger over  the Mumbai attacks of November still raw, the mood could hardly be tougher against Pakistan. Even shorn of the campaign rhetoric, the positions of both the ruling Congress and the Hindu nationalist Bharatiya Janata Party on Pakistan begin from common ground. No dialogue with Islamabad until it “dismantles the infrastructure of terrorism”, both parties say in their manifestos.

Full texts of the documents of the two main parties are here and here.

New Delhi’s continued refusal to resume dialogue or indeed to expand other links such as trade has caught Pakistan between a rock and a hard place, according to this piece in 2point6billion.com, a website tracking developments mainly in China and India. While Islamabad has repeatedly called for resumption of dialogue since the attacks, Delhi has refused to comply until it is assured that Pakistan will prosecute all those involved in the planning and operations.

Delhi maintains that it holds information garnered from satellite, cellular and other communications devices captured at the scene that lead to specific individuals that Pakistan has as yet failed to apprehend. Islamabad denies the charge and says it is doing everything in its power to cooperate.

The result is that the noose has tightened around Pakistan, exacerbating its already dire financial situation. Trade between Pakistan and India, which had been growing and was forecast to hit US$10 billion by 2010, has dwindled to close to zero over the past few months, with Pakistan feeling the brunt of this economic demise, says the website. Islamabad has already had to apply for a US$7.6 billion loan from the IMF in February and garnered an additional US$2.8 billion in military aid from the Obama administration just two weeks ago. 

But is there a possibility that once India’s elections are out of the way, there might be a slight softening of positions? A new government will be under less pressure to be seen to be acting tough. Looking at the manifestos again, you do detect slight differences in the tone.

Here’s the BJP on Pakistan, true to its roots a touch more aggressive :

“”There can be no ‘comprehensive dialogue’ for peace unless Pakistan a) dismantles the terrorist infrastructure on territory under its control; b) actively engages in prosecuting terror elements and organisations; c) puts a permanent, verifiable end to its practice of using cross-border terrorism as an instrument of state policy; d) stops using the territory of third countries to launch terror attacks on India; and, e) hands over to India individuals wanted for committing crimes on Indian soil.”

The Congress on the other hand says dealing with “”terrorism aided and abetted from across our borders does not require a muscular foreign policy as advocated by the BJP.”"

Here is their plan:

“”But the Mumbai attacks have cast a long shadow on the on-going dialogue and engagement process. It is now entirely up to Pakistan to break the impasse by taking credible action against those responsible for the carnage in Mumbai. If it does so and dismantles the terrorist networks that operate from its soil, a Congress-led government will not be found wanting in its response. ”

Has the Congress, still the frontrunner in the election, left the door to dialogue slightly open?

Comments

Sanjeev :
“Indeed, with the pain and anger over the Mumbai attacks of November still raw, the mood could hardly be tougher against Pakistan.”

-With due respect, with the pain and anger over the 1971 East Pakistan war still raw, the mood in Pakistan still remains tougher than ever against India also. If you compare the wounds, East Pakistan 1971 is a bigger wound to heal than Mumbai 2008.
After all, what is Pakistan going to miss out, trade? we will still make it. I know Pakistan has chronic economic problems and Balance of Payment crisis, but there are priorities.

Today there was a report that activists of Shri Ram Sena who attacked a center in Delhi where a meeting of Indo-Pak forum and where Pakistani journalists were present was taking place. This type of attitude, thuggery, bullying and imposing pre-conditions are not going to work.

If there is a need for Pakistan to handover certain criminals to India, than there is a need for an extradition treaty sign up through negotiation between the two countries. But than India’s condition is that criminals handed over first, while according to Pakistani law they cant be due to the absence of an extradition treaty.

Also while Mumbai attacks have placed demands on Pakistan, what about the extremists elements like Col. Purohit(Indian Army) who was involved in Samjhota express blast and killing of Pakistani citizens, will India also extradite those criminals to Pakistan to stand trial?

In the ideal situation, Congress wins and formes a moderate coalition government free of hindu extremists willing to work with the democratic Zardari regime in Islamabad to jump start the composite dialogue and settle disputes.

In the worst case scenario, a BJP led coalition inluding hindu extremists in Lok Sabha at on end and an increasingly Talibanized Pakistan on the other end. this will be a recipie for disaster, a dangerous combination. Any attempt to push Pakistan to the edge or manipulate & undermine the democratic government in Islamabad will be very dangerous. The government of Pakistan has popular support of the people and people of Pakistan will support whatever stand it takes. India must take advatnage of this rather than wait.

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive
 

Umair,

Big deal, you guys lost administrative control over East Pakistan. Did you forget that the Pakistani Army systematically genocided 2.5 million hindus and murdered another 500,000 educated class muslims, so there would be nobody intelligent left to mount a resistance? This is the 21st time, I am telling you this, but you fail to acknowledge this.

Does Pakistan not deserve punishment for the Genocide? Remember Germany was divided in half, when it genocided Jews. But Jews are worthless, aren’t they? and so are Hindus? Well, let me remind you that Mother India came to rescue the Bengali Muslims from further genocide and slaughter.

India will support a stable Pakistan provided it stops its Proxy Jihadi wars and changes and mends its ways. Pakistan has not even apologized properly before the UN for the Genocide of 2.5million HIndus and 500,000 Bengali Muslims.

Please feel free to once again not address the massive human death inflicted by Pakistan.

Forget your stupid extradition treaty, it is not needed, it is just a lame excuse to not act and not care.

If the BJP rises to power in India, it is the fault of Pakistan. Pakistan has continually not dealed in good faith, honesty, transparency and in an honorable way. Mumbai Kasab is a classic example. Denial denial denial.
How embarassing.

What one thing has Pakistan done to deserve any special treatment or niceness by India??

When the Pakistani govt angers the Indian votership by not acting and handing over criminals and not tearing apart the terrorist infrastructure, do you expect sensible, intelligent indians to just standy by and take it? Tell, me what do you expect them to feel? They want a sense of justice.

If India votes the BJP, it will be the doing of Pakistan’s inactions against terrorism and its fueling of terrorism.

On top of all of that you guys keep asking for more free begging bowl money?!?!?

See below:

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/arti cle/ALeqM5jPvJtW2lhKCSNDHBUJHudVLddiewD9 7J1JIO0

Posted by Global Watcher | Report as abusive
 

Umair,

Feel free to respond again:

1971 Pak Army Genocided 2.5 million hindus, 500,000 muslims

1971 Pak Army Genocided 2.5 million hindus, 500,000 muslims

1971 Pak Army Genocided 2.5 million hindus, 500,000 muslims

1971 Pak Army Genocided 2.5 million hindus, 500,000 muslims

1971 Pak Army Genocided 2.5 million hindus, 500,000 muslims

1971 Pak Army Genocided 2.5 million hindus, 500,000 muslims

India came to the rescue of the Bengali Muslims against West Pakistani Punjabi Aggression and genocide.

Posted by Global Watcher | Report as abusive
 

Global watcher
1989 Indian Army genocide of 80,000 Kashmiri muslims

1989 Indian Army genocide of 80,000 Kashmiri muslims

1989 Indian Army genocide of 80,000 Kashmiri muslims

1989 Indian Army genocide of 80,000 Kashmiri muslims

1989 Indian Army genocide of 80,000 Kashmiri muslims

1989 Indian Army genocide of 80,000 Kashmiri muslims

Pakistan Army, ISI and its Jihadi proxies start helping their Kashmiri muslim brothers against occupation and aggression of hindu dominated Indian Army.

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive
 

@Sanjeev,

Sorry, I am getting extremely sick and tire of Pakis complaining about 1971. Somehow the true history of these events have evaded the citizens of Pakistan due an alternate set of history books being used there.

I am shocked how Pakis’s can complain and keep bringing up 1971, but fail acknowledge that they started the WAR and PK Gen. Niazi surrendered to INDIA with 90,000 POWS and they genocided 3 million human beings.

Pakistan is no different than a Hilter and completey unaplogetic about it.

Umair, don you dare ever evoke 1971 ever again.

Posted by Global Watcher | Report as abusive
 

Sanjeev
@”But is there a possibility that once India’s elections are out of the way, there might be a slight softening of positions? A new government will be under less pressure to be seen to be acting tough. Looking at the manifestos again, you do detect slight differences in the tone.”

I think you have still not gauged completely the tectonic shift 26/11 has brought in India’s psyche. i will write in bold if that helps in sinking-in UNTIL THE PERPETRATORS, FUNDERS AND ABETORS OF MUMBAI CARNAGE ARE BROUGHT TO JUSTICE NO DIALOGUE WILL BE INITIATED WITH PAKISTAN. No matter which govt is in center no one has the guts to go against the wishes of the people. And if they do then they will be shown the door.Enough is Enough!

Posted by chirkut | Report as abusive
 

u know umair..

if BJP comes to power i m sure that the govt can take swift actions..last time when the parliament was attacked vajpayee was the pm and i think he was the one who may not have attacked pakistan…but with advani i am sure …so stay focused ,though i know that u guys are always prepared……

u would definately hope that congress come in power because they are soft and u have been handling with them but but rest assured when advani was the home minister we tested nukes..and there will be something concrete this time is there will be an oppurtunity..

forget about trade we dont need to do trade with pakistan..we would need BJP in power as there will be an oppertunity very soon as there is taliban which is gaining control on whole of pakistan.. pakistan will be like afghanistan soon..and NATO from the west and INDIAN ARMY from the east will clean up the whole of pakistan..

And later it will be divided in 4 parts and of course the pak occupied kashmir will be ours..

Posted by Raging bull | Report as abusive
 

To quote Gandhi: “Be the change you want to see.”

Every day there is an 26/11 in Pakistan. We need to make friends with the Taliban, a DG ISI, An Army Chief post and nuke control , posts of PM and president gifted to Taliban in Pakistan, all these bloody 26/11 Pakistani versions will stop. Never mind if 26/11x 10000 take place elsewhere.

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive
 

Raging Bull
3:00 PM 28 May 1998 Baluchistan mountains and you know the rest of the story….
Advani, George Fernandes and the likes itching to teach Pakistan a lesson ducked their tales between their legs and disappeared as soon as Nawaz Sharif stated Pakistan had settled the score.
East or west, easy game not Pakistan. Strategic encirclement? dont even think of an single millimeter of 796,096 SKM.

BJPS goons or Congress hypocrites, bring it on!

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive
 

Pakistan sees 26/11 beacuse of its own making nobody is sending fidayeens to pakistan.
Make Taliban your friend and all the world aid will stop flowing in Pakistan. Only things that will flow into Pakistan will be soldiers from all over the world tearing apart each and every person you are so proud about.Let me assure you that the outcome will not be pleasant to you

Posted by chirkut | Report as abusive
 

Slowly but surely the world is getting tired of you N threat. India is already acquiring technology to shoot down your missiles and planes in the air. Soon your bluff will be called either by Taliban or the world.

Bakre ki maan aakhir kab tak khair manayegi…

Posted by chirkut | Report as abusive
 

chirkut

“Enough is Enough!”
— The angst notwithstanding, over-debating emotionally & over-exposing foreign policies in the public domain is not a good precedent, ultimately the decision should be left to the people shouldering the responsibility & given the complex global scenario, flexibility in matters of foreign affairs is always beneficial, once a commitment or policy decision taken by the ruling govt. (irresp. of a bjp or cong.) the reasoning minds must give them their tactical support, the devious communist have already done a lot of damage on this front with their mud-splattering diring the Indo-American civil nuclear agreement.

Posted by anup | Report as abusive
 

Umair says to Global watcher:

1989 Indian Army genocide of 80,000 Kashmiri muslims

1989 Indian Army genocide of 80,000 Kashmiri muslims

1989 Indian Army genocide of 80,000 Kashmiri muslims

1989 Indian Army genocide of 80,000 Kashmiri muslims

1989 Indian Army genocide of 80,000 Kashmiri muslims

1989 Indian Army genocide of 80,000 Kashmiri muslims

Pakistan Army, ISI and its Jihadi proxies start helping their Kashmiri muslim brothers against occupation and aggression of hindu dominated Indian Army.

Response:

First of all, unlike you, I will say the death of anybody is horrible, equally a muslim, or a hindu.

Secondly, if Pakistan had not quit interfering in India Kashmir, there would be no dead Kashmiri’s, those killed were involved in separatists and terrorist activities, fueled by the ISI and their Proxy Armies. IS India just supposed to site idly by let their territory get annexed?!?! You Paki’s do not respect a soft hand, you guys need a firm, in your face response to get any positive response in any issue.

Thirdly, you Pakis butchered, in a systematic murder and war 3 million people. The 80,000 you claim is far far far less than 3 million. So go ask yourself how those two situations are even equal you fool. Again, you are demonstrating your sense of unfairness towards India.

Don’t you ever forget, Hindus suffered the bloodiest slaughter and most inhuman occupation in human history under the Mughals. We are the original people of the subcontinent, why are we being treated like we are the invaders? Umair, get your head screwed on straight.

I thought you were starting to become reasonable and may have learned something from yesterday’s posts, but nothing about you has changed. I feel that is the same for most Pakis’s as well.

Pakistani’s like you demonstrate over and over again, that with you collective mindset, you have no sense of any kind of moral center with a shred of honesty, responsibility, humility, kindness, a sense of guilt for the Hindu Genocide, nothing,…no feeling whatsoever or acknowledgment.

Why should the world give you guys any respect, money or help? It is no wonder no body in the world wants to touch Pakistan with a 1000 foot pole.

Again, I am leaving religion out of this. But when I see this kind of behavior, I keep thinking that Pakistan is suffering from a collective mental illness of some kind. Not to insult mental patients, Pakistan is like a mental patient, which has had a part of its cerebral cortex brain matter surgically removed and incapable of those basic things like: honesty, responsibility, sense of fairness towards others, humility, kindness any sense of guilt or remorse, unless it involves a muslim.

This is how you appear to the rest of us Umair, I am not kidding at all about this Umair. Anybody else, any comments on that?

Posted by Global Watcher | Report as abusive
 

With the world 7th largest Army, it will be a tough job for outside soldiers.
We are also tired of threats from every Tom, Dick and Harry.
World aid stoppage would act as a spur and lead to greater economic self reliance. Pakistan is your hope, not your problem. God forbid if Pakistan falls, India will be picking up the pieces and you guys will have pretty sore hands.

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive
 

Give control of Pakistan to Taliban and soon there will be no law, just dirty people with dirty clothes,dirty beard, dirty looks and dirty mind.

It will be interested to see punjabi elite being flogged by Taliban and in public.

Posted by punjabiyaar | Report as abusive
 

Global watcher
Have you ever heard the term of “Sick man of Europe”; “The term “Sick man of Europe” is a nickname associated with a European country experiencing a time of economic difficulty and/or poverty.”

Throughout the 1970s,[citation needed] the United Kingdom was sometimes known as the “sick man of Europe” because of industrial strife and poor economic performance compared to other European countries.

Probably, Pakistan is being termed as sick man of world? Countries go through different phases in their history.

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive
 

If the BJP comes to power, that is in the hands of Pak.

“Every day there is an 26/11 in Pakistan. We need to make friends with the Taliban, a DG ISI, An Army Chief post and nuke control , posts of PM and president gifted to Taliban in Pakistan, all these bloody 26/11 Pakistani versions will stop. Never mind if 26/11x 10000 take place elsewhere.”

India is not causing Pakistan’s daily Mumbai’s, those wounds are self inflicted, namely your own Franenstein, the Taliban. Pakistan continues to inject medicine into one arm and venom into the other and complains at India?

Posted by Global Watcher | Report as abusive
 

Do you know which Nation has 2nd Largest army?
Had you known you would have behaved.

Taleban is just 60 miles from Islamabad. Soon Tom Dick and Harry will be ruling you. If world stops its aid nothing will stop you becoming a failed state. You already are facing shortage of E-city. Soon your oil will be dried up. And you be living ZKB’s prophecy of eating grass and have bomb.

India will not be picking pieces. It will seal its border to prevent “Umairs” crossing into India. We will let you the life that you gave to poor Afghans

Posted by chirkut | Report as abusive
 

Pakistan is not sick…she is terminal patient on life support. The moment the life support (Aid) is removed she would die.
Your economy is not seeing depression but a collapse. That is why Pak is in Tokyo begging to the world.

Posted by chirkut | Report as abusive
 

We never behaved and knew of the 2nd largest Army, because the 2nd largest Army never stood up in Kargil and 2001-02 standoff to let us know. Quality and quantity both matters.
Taliban are 60 km from Islamabad eying New Delhi further east 758 km, at this pace when will they arrive?
while showing persistently failing symptoms, Pakistan always comes back from the brink. Alternative sources of energy is a global priority including Pakistan. We ate grass and built the bomb, we will do whatever it takes to fix things.

Aparthied fences do not stop humans, just burying your head in sand will not be an option.

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive
 

Congress worded its manifesto in such a way, clearly it can twist and turn around the vague demands and ultimately, to forget about the mumbai massacre until again another massacre hits the nation ( this time around, the women folk carrying out the mission, as the reports indicate). Growing impatience to Paks apathy in controlling terror outfits by the donors like US is obvious now.
When multiple billions are poured into Pak (by US and others), what compelling financial incentives do they see in a 10bil dollar projected trade across the border. Obviously, trade involves supplying a product if you know what I mean. The aid from US is coming without any strings attached, at least up until now. The point is Pak has no advantage in pleasing India, at least by whipping up emotions of religion it will have some regional sympathizers like Saudi, Bangaldesh etc. The indian congress party has no will to extract any goodies from Pak, on the other hand the BJP can get some wiggle room as Paks donors will identify and use BJP as a firm opponent of Pak. In other words BJP lead centre will be an asset to US, Iran and Afghanistan to twist the arms of slippery Pak. Its inconceivable that the pak army chickens out from its responsibility of protecting its own people when the targets are visible humans roaming around freely within its borders. Churning out conspiracy theories against its neighbors cuts no ice whether BJP lead or congress lead govt runs Delhi. Indian elections are only a minor transient distraction at best.

Finally, neither party will act irrationally unless future cross border terror goes unchecked by paks. In the later event, the international opinion would rightly identify the indias victim status and favor action by India.

 

Whatever the outcome of Indian elections, South Asia remains a volatile region, two nuclear rivals locked in rivalry. At best there seems to be turbulence ahead. Both countries will face, challenges and crisis, both have gone through them before and will be able to weather the storm. For Pakistan, the challenges are overwhelming. But than, the nation is also overwhelmingly capable despite all odds.

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive
 

If you have forgotten that your 90,000 soliders surrendered to Indian Army. Indian Army took back each and every height from Kargil. So much damage was done to your Army that nobody in your country is ready to talk about it. Like Ojhri this debacle has also been swept under the carpet by your professional army. You guys cannot even tame Taliban and abjectly surrender in Swat. What good can be think of your Professional Army?

Thanks to you country India knows how to deal with Insurgeny. We dont fight insurgency using mortar and shells! Taliban will reach islamabad because pakis are either complicit in it or not doing anything. Either ways India will not provide both of these things to spread into our country.
The last time you had upheaval at such a level Bangladesh was born. What’s next? Your country is surviving not because Pakistanis are doing something extraordinary but because of the world not allowing it to fail.
You ate grass and stole bomb. But world has changed since then. Looks like now only thing left for you is to eat grass only and live/die with your bomb.

If India stops Pakistani refugees overflowing into India it will not be because of Aperthied. We dont want to infect our population with your disease. It is called Quarantine.

Posted by chirkut | Report as abusive
 

Sorry Sir South Asia is not volatile because of India. India is the only country in the subcontinent which has remained stoic and democratic. Don’t drag us to your level.
What you term is rivalry is ludicrous. Pakistan is a nobody trying to equate itself to a rapidly rising Nation. That Nobody’s only claim to fame is to steal N-weapn and detonate it.
The challenges the countries are facing are way apart. One small global migraine is fighting for survival. While India is striving to pull out its poeple out of poverty by rapidly developing economically, scientifically/technologically and socially.

Posted by chirkut | Report as abusive
 

One of the misperception Indians generally have is Pakistan Army surrendering 90,000 soldiers in Dhaka. First of all, even in 1971 war like 65 and 48 Pakistani forces fought with bravery and courage.
Secondly, time kept running and didnt stop in 1971. Soviets came and went from Afghanistan, ISI was turned into what it is today.
Pakistan is best in covert warfare and lacks in counter-insurgency. While India has a good record keeping in view the number of insurgencies and size of Indian Army deployed to deal with them. We kept going till Siachin, Kargil, 2001-02. Both countries have strengths and weaknesses that can be exploited.

The world realizes Pakistan’s strategic importance and repurcussions globally if Pakistan fails. When Afghanistan faltered, refugees poured in from there. We are paying the price of Soviet occupation of Afghanistan till today. Grab up a hose, put out the fire in Pakistan if you want to save your house from the blaze.

Did Vajpayee said’ You can pick your friends but not your neighbours’? Can we learn to live with each other, can we even share the planet and its resources with fellow human beings. Most wars are fought due to oil, resources, influence, land disputes. We humans are destroying the planet, arent we? maybe I am wrong.

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive
 

India has a long way to go, we wish you good luck on that journey till we figure out our status in the global arena. From where I see it, the idea of Pakistan and its coming to reality in 1947 and where we stand today, we have a chance to acquire our rightful place in the world. We are part of muslim world, our aspirations and priorities are different thats why we wanted to carve Pakistan out of British India.

And you cannot dodge serious questions that loom by mere self praise.

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive
 

Paki army might have fought bravely but that had not changed the result. The fact is your 90,000 so called brave and professional soldiers surrendered. Another sample of your Army’s bravery we have seen in SWAT. I think i have already seen enough.

Afghanistan problem was created by your country. Read my previous post on it. America moved in much later. IF you got issues because of Afghanistan then its your own making. Live with it!

There are more ways of fighting fire. Do you know how a forest fire is contained? A controlled area is burnt down to sap Forest fire out of fuel. No need for us to run with the hose. Just let the area burn down and seal the borders.

If you want to life in peace then dismantle all your terrorist Camp and bring perpetrators of 26/11 to justice. Pakistani words have lost its value. World now only values her actions. That is why Obama is putting condition to his aid.

Posted by chirkut | Report as abusive
 

Lets leave Pakistan Army out, in case their is a fight we will show you.
Wildfires burn everything in their way and is different form forest fire. Intense hot weather conditions and wind without any chance of rain spreads wild fires rapidly.

Pakistan wrote a letter to USSR to send the Red Army to Afghanistan because we wanted the CIA to empower the ISI. ridiculous?

Actions surely speak louder than words but good actions. We also want Col. Purohit the Samjhota express bomber brought to justice.

We want to live with peace and are prepared for war, we are fighting against the same terrorists. Why would allow us any terrorist camps in our country.

Obama’s own economy is in recession and G20 summit in London recently was literally a joke. The world is in a grip of economic slow down.

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive
 

Sanjeev,

Your article seems to project an impression as though India-Pakistan tension is the most important election priority. This is clearly not true. There are going to be 700 million voters this time and a majority of them will not even think of Pakistan or Kashmir or terrorism as the main issue. Islamic terrorism and sensitivity to it are confined mostly to Mumbai, Delhi and may be Bangalore. These are urban centers and the majority Indians live in rural areas. For them prices of commodities, communication, water, loans etc will be the priorities. In other parts, jobs and economic climate will be topics of importance. There is going to be a serious horse trading after the elections. I hope a Congress led majority wins this time.

 

Umair writes: “Whatever the outcome of Indian elections, South Asia remains a volatile region, two nuclear rivals locked in rivalry. ”

Mr. Umair,

No one is locked in any rivalry with your country. The problem is Pakistanis think they are the grand masters of the world and are engaging themselves in rivalry. India’s nuclear weapons program is directed at holding China at arm’s length. India never considered Pakistan as it equal or worth working with. India’s missiles and nukes are there to provide security from Chinese threat. After we achieved that security, China has been conciliatory towards us. We have no problems with Pakistan seeing India as a threat and therefore eating grass in order to make its own nukes and missiles. Now India will think twice before coming after Pakistan.

The story should end there. Everyone turns around and minds their own business. India and China did that and now they are competing on economic front. One is called the Asian elephant and the other the dragon. It is a healthy competition. India and China are also engaged in trade. Nuclear parity helped achieve this peace. India did not decide to bleed China through asymmetric warfare and spend all it money into sending in terrorists inside China, quoting Tibet and North East unrest as the reason. Both countries know what not to do. So peace prevails.

Pakistan on the other hand, lost its mind after achieving nuclear power. They acted irresponsibly, engaged in insurgency operations inside India, fomented militancy in Kashmir and killed innocent people in Mumbai. Be glad that you are dealing with India and not China. Chinese are the most ruthless people on earth and they would have crushed you right away. India has humanitarian feelings. We believe in live and let live philosophy. Pakistan needs to know its size and position in the global stage and act according to that. I have mentioned many times on this blog feed backs that Pakistan should never compare itself as equal to India. There is no comparison. All your problems arise from that emotional reason.

This article is about elections in India and how the India-Pakistan issue will influence the results. Let us try sticking to that instead of going through another cycle of Kashmir-Freedom fighters-Cruel Indian military-Pakistan is a thumb sucking baby-Jesus is a Taliban-Pakistan is the world’s wealthiest nation-Pakistan’s military is the world’s largest-Its nukes are the most potent bombs in the world and so on. You are hijacking every discussion with the same set of arguments.

You still have not provided evidence for Indian embassy’s nefarious activities in Balochistan or Afghanistan. And you need to provide details on the seven Indian embassies inside Afghanistan.

 

Umair writes: “Can we learn to live with each other, can we even share the planet and its resources with fellow human beings. Most wars are fought due to oil, resources, influence, land disputes. We humans are destroying the planet, arent we? maybe I am wrong.”

Sure, Sure. Now will your ISI and military pull back all militants from Kashmir? What you do with your Taliban is your business. Dismantle radical Islamic organizations in your country that engage in terrorism inside India. Help in getting justice for Mumbai attacks quickly.

We can definitely live in peace. We have always believed in that. Now, let us see if your countrymen do what you are preaching. We are minding our own business with other neighbors. So it should not be a problem for us to do the same with Pakistan. So where do you want to start inside your country?

 

May be it is time for those who cry for self determination of fellow Muslim brothers in Kashmir, also to cry for the same in Balochistan. All Islamic brothers need self determination if they so desire. May be we should help them out. Poor brothers! :-)

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp  ?page=20094\16\story_16-4-2009_pg1_8

 

Anyone dreaming of creating mischief in Baluchistan is living a fools paradise. Ever sine the fall of East Pakistan, if another part of Pakistan is tried to be dismembered it will generate destruction on a scale the world has never seen before. It literally is Pakistan: Now or never. We have to prove ourselves now or never.

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive
 

Mauryan
“Now will your ISI and military pull back all militants from Kashmir?”

No. You messed it up in East Pakistan and forever made an enemy out of ISI and Paksitan Army. Now suck it up will you?

You still think all along these years that enough is enough. We still believe we have scores to settle. Low intensity conflict will increase the long term price.

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive
 

I think what Umair is saying is that ISI and “Professional and Brave” (lol) Pak army will continue to foment trouble in india. That is OK. But beware to meddle is Balochistan and pay us back in the same coin. Hypocrisy anyone?

I refrained to cut Mauryan’s discussion and didn’t reply back to Umair. But looks like laaton ke bhoot baton se nahin maante hain.

Here is a friendly advice…. If you have a competent Army/ISI ask/plead them to save you from Taliban that is already knocking on your door.

If you want to keep Balochistan than treat them right. And No! Killing their leaders is not how civilized people treat their people. Deja Vu Bangladesh??

Posted by chirkut | Report as abusive
 

Talking about Politics,
some interesting video on Pakistanis politics. This Pakistani politician asks the same question to Musharraf why Pakistan is unable to establish political system like India has, and why Pakistani Army steps in over political instability but in India that does not happen.

part of the clip
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v148b2r-o NU

Complete video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4VTXMmld2 jc

ON election result in India, whatever the party, no one has that long rope for pakistan.

@On: Pakistani faces 26/11 everyday by some Pakistani bloggers.
—These 26/11 are the consequences of the Pakistan’s/notorious ISI’s pro-terrorism policies in India and Afghanistan–starting with cold war elements, terrorism in Kashmir and Sikh militancy in Punjab. In Punjab from 1980s to mid 1990s, Pakistan-supported Sikh terrorism was an everyday affair. During peak terrorism, daily, there would be a headline with # of innocents killed by terrorists—20 dead, 30 dead, 40 dead…It was jus a matter of how many are killed. That India wiped out this terrorism does not mean we have forgotten. Indians have suffered at the hands of Pakistani-sponsored terrorism, which some Pakistani bloggers are proud of when they admire the acts of ISI. Indian rhetoric is justified.

From pakistan, POV, the worst part is whether US is out of the region or not, these terrorists in Pakistan will have to be eliminated. They cannot be labeled good/bad now but after US leaves, everyone will be good—this will happen–too bad for Pakistan. Sometime I feel the state of Pakistani Army that can kill millions quickly (Muslims/Hindus) in E. Pakistan, can kill policians in coups, but have such deep bonds for these real terrorists.

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive
 

Talking about Politics,
some interesting video on Pakistanis politics. This Pakistani politician asks the same question to Musharraf why Pakistan is unable to establish political system like India has, and why Pakistani Army steps in over political instability but in India that does not happen.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v148b2r-o NU

@ON election result in India: whatever the party, no one has that long rope for pakistan.

@On Pakistan faces 26/11 everyday by some Pakistani bloggers.
—These 26/11 in Pakistan are the consequences of the Pakistan’s/notorious ISI’s pro-terrorism policies in India and Afghanistan–starting with cold war elements, terrorism in Kashmir and Sikh militancy in Punjab. In Punjab from 1980s to mid 1990s, Pakistan-supported Sikh terrorism was an everyday affair. During peak terrorism, daily, there would be a headline with # of innocents killed by terrorists—20 dead, 30 dead, 40 dead…It was jus a matter of how many are killed. That India wiped out this terrorism does not mean we have forgotten. Indians have suffered at the hands of Pakistani-sponsored terrorism, which some Pakistani bloggers are proud of when they admire the acts of ISI. Indian rhetoric is justified.
From pakistan, POV, the worst part is whether US is out of the region or not, these terrorists in Pakistan will have to be eliminated. They cannot be labeled good/bad now but after US leaves, everyone will be good—this will happen–too bad for Pakistan. Sometime I feel the state of Pakistani Army that can kill millions quickly (Muslims/Hindus) in E. Pakistan, can kill policians in coups, but have such deep bonds for these real terrorists.

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive
 

@Pakistan is not sick…she is terminal patient on life support. The moment the life support (Aid) is removed she would die.
Your economy is not seeing depression but a collapse. That is why Pak is in Tokyo begging to the world.
- Posted by chirkut

–Then some Pakistanis say Pakistani does not need help and crutches.

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive
 

@We never behaved and knew of the 2nd largest Army, because the 2nd largest Army never stood up in Kargil and 2001-02 standoff to let us know. Quality and quantity both matters.
Taliban are 60 km from Islamabad eying New Delhi further east 758 km, at this pace when will they arrive?

–Thank you Mr. Jinnah for creating Pakistan.
@Quality and quantity both matters.—-just to make the point, that’s what I have been saying that spread of religion does not mean progress (no more discussion on Religion in this context here from me).
But how about Quality+quantity of Army=enemy bites dust in each attack.

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive
 

As my grandfather’s friend used to say:

“Pakistani noo Jhooth and Jooth bahut falde ne”

Lies and left overs flourish Pakistanis.

Now I see how correct he was.

http://www.themedialine.org/news/news_de tail.asp?NewsID=24849

They are knocking door of every country with begging bowl and spreading lies of being a victim. Begging Bowl has also gone bigger, they are asking donations for 30 Billion Dollars.

And we are reading courage stories of Pakistani army, and how they fought bravely in each and every war.

Posted by punjabiyaar | Report as abusive
 

Umair writes: “Ever sine the fall of East Pakistan, if another part of Pakistan is tried to be dismembered it will generate destruction on a scale the world has never seen before.”

Oh, I though you guys grew up with the belief India lost to Pakistan in 1971. Then how did East Pakistan fall? Did you guys drop it hard?

Don’t worry. No one will have to come from outside to break down your mud brick house in Balochistan. It will fall on its own. And that destruction will be on such a scale the world has never seen after Bangladesh. Those who live by the sword, will die by it too.

 

Umair warns (hee! hee!): “No. You messed it up in East Pakistan and forever made an enemy out of ISI and Paksitan Army. Now suck it up will you?”

Wrong. We cleared the messed your military set up in East Pakistan. Learn history correctly. ISI considers India its enemy forever ever since Pakistan was formed. Which one should be sucked in first? Balochistan? You tell us and we will surely help.

 

this is a reposted URL since it was unclickable in the last post. hope it works.

In this video Pakistani guy wants Pakistani Army to behave like an Indian Army and Pakistani Politics to behave like Indian. what say you Pakistani bloggers?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v148b2r-o NU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v148b2r-o NU

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive
 

Pak begging the world is half of the story.
Whats new is that their “All weather” friends are kicking them away when approached for Alms.

I was really surprised by this news. But then i cant blame them. Any sane nation would do the same
http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp  ?page=20094\16\story_16-4-2009_pg1_10

Its high time that Pak mend their ways and stop abetting terrorism.

Posted by chirkut | Report as abusive
 

@Pakistan is best in covert warfare and lacks in counter-insurgen

–That’s what places Pakistan in the category of terrorist alike state. It did not even need 9/11 for Sec. Albright to almost to that job.
–Stp behaving like terrorists, behave like a nation (yes the real “peaceful”)

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive
 

@Did Vajpayee said’ You can pick your friends but not your neighbours’? Can we learn to live with each other, can we even share the planet and its resources with fellow human beings
—-Umair

—Sharing is give & take, not take, take, take, take…
giving terrorism is not “give”

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive
 

Pakistan may be calling for a resumption of dialogue, but dialogues make no sense as long as Pakistan continues sponsoring terrorist activities in India.

Things seem to be slipping out of the hands of the Pakistani authorities with their rapidly worsening internal security situation. For now, they need to focus on getting their house in order before anything happens with India.

 

@Umair,

I agree with Mauryan, India has handled Pakistan with Kid Gloves up till now. If the Chinese were next door neighbours, they would have ruthlessly & mercilessly wiped Pakistan and occupied it, if they had to put up with Islamist Terrorist attacks and proxy armies. Even China does not want to touch Pakistan. China has only been helping Pak to keep agitation on India, to maintain a tactical advantage.

The Saudi’s sent free dates to eat and the Chinese didn’t even bother giving free rice to Pak, let alone money.

Pakistan’s noose will continue to tighten as its friends disappear one by one at the same time, the BJP might get into office. The Taliban are taking over Pakistan and the economy is in ruins. Pakistan will be completely encircled.

Ironically speaking, the only Pak can save itself is if it seeks true, honest and friendly reconciliation with India, its fictitious enemy. The U.S. does not care damn about Pakistan either.

If the US policy fails in Afghan and Pak, the U.S. will drop the trap door on Pakistan and Pakistan will be hung for good.

It is not too late my dear Pak friends, make amends with India and prevent the BJP from coming into power. If you fail to do so, make preparations for your eventual rapid decline.

Posted by Global Watcher | Report as abusive
 

No matter who comes to power in India, the overall stance towards Pakistan will not change. The pre-condition for any talks with Pakistan will be to dismantle their terror infrastructure. There is no need to wait for the elections to complete for this answer. All Indians will stand by the national interest when it comes to matters of this kind.

 

A reader has raised an interesting point. If the Taliban are supposed to be 60 km from Islamabad, they are not then that far from Delhi. Some 750 kms away perhaps at this point which isn’t a great deal of distance in that part of the world.
Doesn’t that reinforce the image of a whole region at threat, not just Afghanistan and Pakistan. Perhaps this is not just an AF-PAK war as the United States now believes,there is India too in that equation

Posted by Sanjeev Miglani | Report as abusive
 

Post Your Comment

We welcome comments that advance the story through relevant opinion, anecdotes, links and data. If you see a comment that you believe is irrelevant or inappropriate, you can flag it to our editors by using the report abuse links. Views expressed in the comments do not represent those of Reuters. For more information on our comment policy, see http://blogs.reuters.com/fulldisclosure/2010/09/27/toward-a-more-thoughtful-conversation-on-stories/
  •