Pakistan Army says militants will not be allowed to dictate terms

April 24, 2009

Is the Pakistan army getting ready to act against the Taliban militants who have made the deepest advance yet into the country, seizing control of Buner district, 100 km (60 miles) from Islamabad, after taking over Swat region?

The militants began withdrawing on Friday just as quietly as they moved into the district, and it wasn’t clear what had led to the sudden withdrawal.

It came just as Pakistan army chief General Ashfaq Kayani issued a statement saying the army “will not allow the militants to dictate terms to the government or impose their way of life on the civil society of Pakistan.”

It must be one of the strongest statements yet from the army chief since the government made a peace deal with the Islamists in the Swat valley and comes on top of some rather menacing  noises from Washington.

U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton said Pakistan posed a mortal threat to the world by abdicating  to militants, and Defense Secretary Robert Gates said relations could be affected.

A small force of less than 300 paramilitary soldiers was sent to Buner on Thursday after the Taliban advance triggered global alarm. The poorly-equipped force was repulsed, and the question obviously arose as to why the army was not going in.

It is a question that has cropped up each time the militants have acted with impunity. It came up when their threats were rewarded with a peace deal in Swat deal and again when a teenage girl was flogged in public.

Kayani said a pause in operations was meant to give conciliatory forces a chance and shouldn’t be misconstrued as a concession to militants.

Is the Pakistan army readying for an offensive? U.S. officials remain sceptical and the New York Times quotes a defense department official as saying troops from the poorly trained constabulary force were sent to Buner on Thursday because Pakistan army troops were not available. He also said the generals were reluctant to pull reinforcements off the border with India.

88 comments

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Sanjeev
Pakistan Army will never conduct any operations against the Taliban, there will always be compromise, and good sense will prevail. Somewhere, someone, a politicaian, a military commander, Prime Minister or PM, a cleric will step in to diffuse the situation. The Taliban will never cross a certain redline and the govt. Army and even Taliban themselves know it, so much as in Sindh we have MQM, In Punjab we have moderate parties, Bhutto’s are favorite in Sindh, Baluch have their own nationalistic identity, Taliban will always kept confined to Northern Pakistan and appeased enough not to create serious trouble. The Army has a well thought tactical plan and strategic objectives, it will never allow the militants a free rein in a nuclear armed country.

Pakistan Army knows as soon as it launches large scale all out offensive against ‘Taliban’ Pakistan will be engulfed into flames of CIVIL WAR and all would remain would be ashes and nothing.

As the situation progresses, Pakistan Armed Forces will consolidate and position themselves more forcefully against India, though US is trying to change this mindset. There is a very thin line, If Pakistan weakens internally, and the external threat from India rises proportionally. It’s virtually like a law of Physics. Because the more Pakistan weakens internally, the more India will be tempted to step in and harm Pakistan.
Therefore Army will never let the militants weaken Pakistan internally and will defeat them, at the same time keep an offensive posture against India to keep it at bay.

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive

ISPR(INTER SERVICE PUBLIC RELATIONS) PAKISTAN ARMY
G.H.Q RAWALPINDI
Official Press Release

http://www.ispr.gov.pk/front/main.asp?o= t-press_release&id=610

No 104/2009-ISPR Dated: April 24, 2009

Rawalpindi – April 24, 2009: The Chief of Army Staff (COAS), General Ashfaq Parvez Kayani today chaired an operational meeting at the General Headquarters, Rawalpindi.
While addressing the participants the COAS stated that he was aware of the doubts being voiced about the intent as well as the capability of the Army to defeat the militancy in the Country. He made it clear that Pakistan Army never has and never will hesitate to sacrifice, whatever it may take, to ensure safety and wellbeing of people of Pakistan and Country’s territorial integrity.
The COAS stated that operational pause, meant to give the reconciliatory forces a chance, must not be taken for a concession to the militants. He declared that Army’s rank and file has resolve to fight to eliminate the militants, who endanger the lives of peaceful citizens of the Country and challenge the writ of the State. He reassured the people of Pakistan that with their support, Army is determined to root out the menace of terrorism from the society. It will not allow the militants to dictate terms to the Government or impose their way of life on the civil society of Pakistan.
He condemned pronouncements by outside powers raising doubts on the future of the Country. A Country of 170 M resilient people under a democratic dispensation, strongly supported by the Army, is capable of handling any crisis that it may confront. He stated that the victory against the terror and militancy will be achieved at all cost.
The COAS praised the rank and file for continuing to fight under challenging and arduous conditions. Praying for the souls of Shaheeds of Armed forces, Civilian Law Enforcement Agencies and civilians, the COAS assured the bereaved families and the Nation that the debt of their sacred blood will be paid back by the Army, and safety of the people and the Country ensured at all costs.

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive

Let us hope that the withdrawal of Taliban from Buner will be permanent. The Taliban might have realized that it does not have adequate logistics to maintain control over conquered areas. It spreads through local acceptance. It cannot drive off the authorities from a place and take over. Its weapons and ammunition source has been the Pakistani military. What it is seeking is an accepted sanctuary for Al Qaeda and other terrorist groups. Al Qaeda is the main danger here. If it moves into Swat, it will encourage the Taliban to move into the power centers of Pakistan. That is the best way for it to create enough depth and fight its Jihad against the US and its allies. The US should never trust these “moderate Taliban” and get out of the region. They will be stabbed on their backs if they did that. Taliban/Al Qaeda nexus is buying time. It has serious supporters in the Pakistani intelligence and military. Zardari and Kayani should take them out right away to prevent the Taliban/Al Qaeda from making the next big move.

Excuse me General Kiyani, the militants have laready dictated their terms. Its time Pakistan stops defending and starts acting. You are fooling no one but yourselves!
I have afew questions on the current developments:
1. Judicial backlog is a common problem is most democracies, why did Paksitan choose to implement a system of traditional courts to deal with the challenge?
2. If Sharia is good for Swat, then why is it being opposed by the Pakistani Government in Buner?
3. When Nawaz Sharif, Fazl-ur-rehman, Altaf Hussain and many other political leaders are warning aganist the current Governemnt strategy on Taliban, why is the Governemnt implementing it?
4.The government of Pakistan says that that if peace is breached, they would re-think the deal, what are they waiting for? Does breach of peace mean killings and bombings? The Taliban have already breached the accord and the Governemnt is unable to grasp this simple fact.
http://thetrajectory.com/blogs/?p=444

High-level meeting over Swat situation underway at Presidency
Updated at: 2217 PST, Friday, April 24, 2009
http://www.geo.tv/4-24-2009/40622.htm

ISLAMABAD: A high-level meeting to review Swat situation is in progress here at the Presidency on Friday.

President Asif Ali Zardari, Prime Minister Yusuf Raza Gilani and Chief of Army Staff General Ashfaq Parvez Kayanai are present at the meeting.

The meeting will review Swat situation in particular and the overall situation in country in general, sources said.

Awami National Party Chief, Asfandyar Wali and Foreign Minister, Shah Mehmood Qureshi are also attending the meeting.

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive

Out here, the Paks have been portrayed as traitorous lunatics for allowing the Taliban to gain this much influence. That invitation for Bin Laden to move to Swat has gotten lots of press. I have a feeling that’s what compelled the Paks to act; the optics of it all.

Well, whatever get’s them to tackle the problem.

Posted by Keith | Report as abusive

Sanjeev
As I was highlighting yesterday, the ISI/PA design is working according to schedule. The Taliban withdrawal is to convince US that civil administration is in control and that things will get better with more billions. As everyone knows Paks have perfected the technique of milking the cow dry. Taliban was assured of a reward by ISI for Bruner withdrawal; the bottom line is some of the US donation will be shared with Taliban/Al Qaida. So US is in other words, unwittingly, feeding the Taliban. I saw a picture of Taliban thugs riding a Humvee carrying modern assault rifles a few days ago, unbelievable alright but very much true.

Ahmed Rashid has been right all along about how US is getting hoodwinked. Problems aren’t going to go away though. US will reward Pak with some carrots but they will continue drone attacks nevertheless, the real testing times will be when Pak makes serious demands on grounding the drones.

@He (Kayani) Condemned Pronouncements By Outside Powers raising doubts on the future of the Country. A Country of 170 M resilient people under a democratic dispensation, strongly supported by the Army, is capable of handling any crisis that it may confront. He stated that the victory against the terror and militancy will be achieved at all cost.”
-Umair
–Insiders, powerless Pakistanis are also raising similar doubts. But in case good words, nice statement that should put at ease the concerned– insiders and outsiders. Let us see how much he walks the talk. All the best wishes to him.

@ As the situation progresses, Pakistan Armed Forces will consolidate and position themselves more forcefully against India, though US is trying to change this mindset. There is a very thin line, If Pakistan weakens internally, and the external threat from India rises proportionally. It’s virtually like a law of Physics. Because the more Pakistan weakens internally, the more India will be tempted to step in and harm Pakistan.
-Umair

– Pakistan Armed Forces will do that or not but this tells your own mindset. Were you not the one with the view to quit the past and move on? Pakistan is good at unleashing these militant monsters on India and the world. But it gets cold feet when these monsters turn around.
In any case, there is nothing tempting inside Pakistan to make India step in.

@ Therefore Army will never let the militants weaken Pakistan internally and will defeat them, at the same time keep an offensive posture against India to keep it at bay.
-Umair
-Paranoia. Fixing militancy to avoid India stepping in. Islamic radicalists and Talibans are moderate enough for Pakistani Army not to keep them in check or attack them, but these guys are sinister enough to spread their #s and the idea slowly by inviting in Al-Qaida and other militants and even Punjabi terrorists. Their goal is clear to establish Islamic rule by their definition in Pakistan. That is their lowermost benchmark. If they cannot do that inside Pakistan, “the land of Allah” then they cannot do anywhere else.
Through these posts do one more favor to yourself if you do not want militants to weaken Pakistan internally, ask your military to rein in Punjabi terrorists working against India. They are already biting you. Or are they meant to weaken India and then you apply your law of physics.

You are tiring yourself by swishing the sword into thin air against India.

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive

“thetrajectory” post asked some valid questions. is there any Pakistani not sitting on the high horse to deal with them for the “insiders” sake.

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive

Lie, Lie, Lie some more

Posted by punjabiyaar | Report as abusive

“COAS assured the bereaved families and the Nation that the debt of their sacred blood will be paid back by the Army, and safety of the people and the Country ensured at all costs.”

We salute you Sir!

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive

Kayani and Pasha are just fooling the U.S. and the world to extort more money for themselves and sharing the $US Billion$ with the Taliban and using this as an opportunity to further Islamism against India, the US, Afghanistan and the world, to make the Taliban function as a “strategic asset”. This all has to be done in a “staged” fashion to fool the world into thinking that the Taliban are a threat and that the Pak Army and ISI are trying to fight them and protect Pakistan.

I hope Obama and Clinton grab these guys by the throats and expose them for the liars that they are and that they are being betrayed as we speak.

Posted by GLobal Watcher | Report as abusive

http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/dawn -content-library/dawn/news/world/12-wash ington-upset-as-taliban-spread-influence –bi-01

I just don’t know if Pakistanis understand that their lack of commitment towards tackling the Talibn is seriously endangering the USA-Pakistan relationship.

Buner is a good example of the lack of commitment. The PA did nothing till the international media got wind of the Buner situation. Then sent in less troops than the miltants had fighters. Now that the militants are pulling out they will probably send in more forces to put on a show for the cameras. Then when they leave, the militants will move right back in and Buner will truly be in their hands. In 6 months, I predict that all of NWFP will be in Taliban hands. Then we’ll start seeing the real fireworks because at that point they’ll start probing Punjab.

This is why westerners get so frustrated. The Pakistanis don’t seem to understand that their own national security is being threatened by the Taliban. And that they can fight them now or they can fight them later when they have had time to recruit, train and arms thousands more fighters.

Posted by Keith | Report as abusive

Keith
There is a trust deficit between Pakistan and the US, there can be differences on policy issues. Pakistani ambasador to UK, Wajid Shamsul Hasan has said the new Obama ‘Af-Pak’ policy is flawed as Pakistan being a semi-developed country cannot be equated with Afghanistan. US need different strategy to deal with Pakistan.
Pakistan needs fundamental social reforms and at the same time to fight the insurgency. I think the will and capability is there with the PA, it is only reluctant to move due to the danger of civil war.
What the Taliban has done is hijacked an anti-feudal movement and given it a religious color. Most of millitants in Swat and Buner who joined Taliban are “Accidental guirellas”, people who dont know what to do, ‘people who fight a small war in the midst of a bigger war’. These accidenatl guirellas are reconcilables, they can be turned into lashkars to oust the Taliban. Much like the ‘Sunni awakening’ in Iraq, along with the trrop surge turned the tide in favor of the US.
My recommendations are as follows:
1. Greater military collboration between PA and US military.
2. A cohesive strategy to build civil institutions in Pakistan and strengthen democracy, ensure good governance.
3. Contain the insurgency to NWFP and save Punjabi heartland from Taliban influence, containment is as important as fighting the Taliban headon.
4. Get India onboard, in real terms. India will loose big time if there is all out chaos, with a large muslim population, last thing India would need is an ‘Indian Taliban’.
5. US takes all steps with complete consensus with regional countries, India, Pakistan, Afghanistan, engage Iran. Only a regional effort will stabilize the situation.

Despite all of above, if any attempt is made to push Pakistan to the extreme, it will result in an Armageddon. Because no one will be able to control a nation of 173 billion people, with the worlds 7th largest military sitting over a nuclear stockpile. The international community would have to keep its nerve and be patient, Pakistan needs to channelize all the energies in the right direction and is capable of solving all the problems.

Lastly I would quote, Army chief of staff:

“He condemned pronouncements by outside powers raising doubts on the future of the Country. (And said) A Country of 170 Million resilient people under a democratic dispensation, strongly supported by the Army, is capable of handling any crisis that it may confront. He stated that the victory against the terror and militancy will be achieved at all cost.”

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive

@This is why westerners get so frustrated. The Pakistanis don’t seem to understand that their own national security is being threatened by the Taliban. And that they can fight them now or they can fight them later when they have had time to recruit, train and arms thousands more fighters.
- Posted by Keith

-Indians sitting next door get frustrated too. It is not the loss after putting in the best, it is putting in no fight at all and making deals with these rogues who invite OBL, that troubles each and everyone. Pakisanis still salute them over Pakistani Army Statements. Swatis getting flogged and Sikhs who paid Rs 50 million as jizia (tax; the protection money to live in Muslim territory) need action from Army.

Muslim brotherhood/Taliban as strategic depth against India/weapons of money making from the World are some factors for PA inaction.

http://pakteahouse.wordpress.com/2009/04  /16/taliban-drive-out-sikhs-demand-jizy a/

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive

http://pakteahouse.wordpress.com/2009/04  /16/pakistani-taliban-expand-influence- beyond-swat/

Buneris have a history of conflict with the Taliban, says Zahid Hussain, author of “Frontline Pakistan: The Struggle with Militant Islam.” Last year, villagers in Shalbandai killed six militants. The Taliban later took revenge through a suicide bombing during local elections, killing dozens of people.”

“There will be resistance to the Taliban in Buner,” says Mr. Hussain in a telephone interview from Islamabad. “The locals are traditionally opposed to militants. There’s also the problem that militants [follow] Wahhabi Islam while Buneris are devotees of a Sufi saint.”

ocal residents are being forced to accept the jirga’s decisions because the Taliban militants are heavily armed and “adamant on controlling the area,” he continues.

Villagers from Sultanwas have been leaving their homes for fear of clashes between the Taliban and security forces.

According to Abid, the journalist, Taliban militants are occupying the homes of fleeing villagers and seizing their weapons.

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive

Government firm to enforce writ across the country
ISHFAQULLAH SHAWL- BUSINESS RECORDER

ISLAMABAD (updated on: April 25, 2009, 02:56 PST): The government on Friday reiterated its resolve to enforce writ of the government in all parts of the country. This commitment was made by top political and military leaderships of the country in a high-level meeting held at Aiwan-e-Sadr.

President Asif Ali Zardari chaired the meeting which was attended by Prime Minister Syed Yousuf Raza Gilani, Chief of Army Staff General Ashfaq Parvaiz Kayani, Foreign Minister Shah Mehmood Qureshi and Awami National Party Chief Asfandyar Wali Khan.

The meeting reviewed the security situation in NWFP in the wake of threat posed by militants in Swat and adjoining areas. The meeting refused to accept any parallel system of governance saying that if anyone tried to impose his agenda by use of force, he will be taken to task.

Top leadership of the country in the meeting discussed the progress towards peace and normalcy in Swat after promulgation of Nizam-e-Adl Regulation and ongoing military operation against militants in various areas of NWFP and Federally Administered Tribal Areas (Fata), well-informed sources said.

The meeting also discussed recent comments made by many top-ranking functionaries of the United States administration, voicing concern over Pakistan’s internal affairs, sources said. The government will not close its options of peaceful settlement of issues. Any misadventure by non-state actors will be overturned by the government, sources added.

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive

Keith,

The West thinks Taliban is a serious threat; the Pak army does not. I wonder why is it difficult for you to understand the duplicity of the Pak army. In the 90′s, Pakistanis collaborated with the Taliban in Afghanistan. They are partners in crime. Only Pakistan and Saudi Arabia recognized the Taliban government in Afghanistan. They would like to regain the same control through proxy if the US leaves Afghanistan.

The Taliban is an issue for the Pak army because of the smear campaign in the West. This explains the half-hearted measures. Many in Pakistan still believe that the Taliban are less dangerous than the US/NATO troops.

Posted by Nikhil | Report as abusive

@Only Pakistan and Saudi Arabia recognized the Taliban government in Afghanistan.”
-by Nikhil

Nikhil: UAE too.

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive

Nikhil, believe me when I tell you patience is running out. The Paks are playing with fire here. What happens if another 9/11 originates from FATA? Pakistan is going to be in a world of hurt if that happens. This is why I am frustrated. They just don’t seem to understand the impact of what they are doing. Hosting terrorists is like harbouring an arsonist who is going to burn your neighbour’s house down. The Paks better hope that neighbour doesn’t live in New York or LA.

Posted by Keith | Report as abusive

@In the 90’s, Pakistanis collaborated with the Taliban in Afghanistan. They are partners in crime.”
–Nikhil

Nikhil: We all know that during Kargil war, Pakistan collaborated with LeT, ranked #2 terrorist organization by US after A-Q.

The love of Pakistani establishment for such elements like Taliban is like chocolate-milk. And then they complain abut Pakistan not being trusted.

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive

We all know that during Kargil war aganist India, Pakistan collaborated with LeT, ranked #2 terrorist organization by US after A-Q.

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive

@Rajeev,

Rajeev, I think this whole show might just be another grand deception by the Pak Army and ISI, this time they are not using the ISI, but the Taliban, a much more virulent Islamist force, and using them to start another War against India, any way they can.

This is the only thing that makes sense, why the Pak army and ISI are not challenging the Taliban, but making political statements and the Taliban seem to lately even be collaberating with Pak Army to create the impression that they are “withdrawing” from Buner district. It seems to all imply a collaberation of the Pak. establishment and the Taliban for a greater end game, possible with India and defeat of the U.S. forces.

Nothing else can explain the impotence of the Pak Army and ISI through all this, while they are ready to start war with India at the drop of a dime.

Posted by Global Watcher | Report as abusive

Typo below, first line should say LeT, not ISI

Posted by Global Watcher | Report as abusive

What the Taliban has done is hijacked an anti-feudal movement and given it a religious color. Most of millitants in Swat and Buner who joined Taliban are “Accidental guirellas”, people who dont know what to do, ‘people who fight a small war in the midst of a bigger war’. These accidenatl guirellas are reconcilables, they can be turned into lashkars to oust the Taliban. Much like the ‘Sunni awakening’ in Iraq, along with the trrop surge turned the tide in favor of the US.

- Posted by Umair.

The question then is why didn’t the PA support the lashkar that tried to stop the Talibs in Buner. Where was the cavalry when these locals were fighting off the incursion from Swat? And what was the response? 300 Frontier Constabulary…less than the 500 militants that were there.

Surely, even you as a Pakistani should consider that to be a poor response.

Umair. I can get that you are proud of your country. Nobody wants to see their country get denigrated in the press, in blogs, etc. Yet at the same time the country can only improve when citizens like you stand up and demand better. This means that when you chat with your friends in the PA, you ask them why they aren’t tackling the insurgency. Ask your friends who work in government, what they are doing to address the problems of the nation.

Remember that old phrase, “Ask not what your country can do for you but what you can do for your country.”

Today Pakistan stands at edge of the abyss. Will citizens like you recognize the problem and demand answers or will you drink the kool-aid fed to you by the Pak Army and focus on India, even as the Taliban advance into Punjab.

That may sound like crazy talk. But two years ago, nobody would have thought Swat would have become a no-go zone. Once revolutions start, it’s impossible to know which way it’ll go. I’ll bet if the Iranian students knew what hell they were going to have, they never would have overthrown the Shah. But, they had their revolution and handed over power to the mullahs. Now look at the situation they are in.

And just remember, before they come for us in Afghanistan or in LA or in New York or in London, they are going to come for you in Karachi, in Lahore, in Islamabad, in ‘pindi. Bombings will increase. There will be riots. Recruiting for the Army might fall if south punjab gets talibanized. Then what is Pakistan going to do?

Posted by Keith | Report as abusive

Umair writes: “Pakistan being a semi-developed country cannot be equated with Afghanistan.”

This caught my attention. Umair, it is apt to compare Pakistan with Afghanistan. I know your “low self esteem” prevents you from it and you want your country to be compared with India. But unfortunately, the reality is different.

What is common between Afghanistan and Pakistan? Here are some points:

1. Both are declared Islamic states
2. Both share the Pashtun land through with the Durand line goes through.
3. Both have no law or rules typical for normal countries.
4. Both have Taliban
5. Both have Al Qaeda as guests
6. Both are linked to 9/11 attacks
7. Both have radical Islam as the main religion.
8. Both have been run over by every possible tribe one can think of in history.
9. Both are at the mercy of American dole.
10. Both hate Shias, Hindus, Sikhs, Jews, Christians, Ismailies, Ahmedias, Buddhists and every other people who are not Sunni Muslims.

You guys are brothers in arms. Right now Afghans hate you and you hate them. So you both share hatred as well.
But Afghans are better of the two of you.

“President Asif Ali Zardari, Prime Minister Yusuf Raza Gilani and Chief of Army Staff General Ashfaq Parvez Kayanai are present at the meeting.”

Here is what RISAT picked up from the secret meeting.

Zardari: “What’s my cut?”

Gilani: “Sahib, will you buy me also a ticket when you arrange to fly out of this country?”

Kayani: “Sh…We are clueless”

Gilani: “Yes. We have to do something about the Taliban taking over Buner”

Kayani: “I was talking about the Americans. They want us to do something. Why should we do anything? This is our country. We can do whatever we want. And if India tries to cause trouble in Balochistan, we will surrender to them”

Zardari: “What exactly do I get?”

Gilani: “Sahib, I asked you something and you have not answered me. The Taliban are coming. The Taliban are coming”

Kayani: “Shut up Gilani. Or I’ll stage a coup and take over your government. We have a serious threat to our territorial integrity. Pakistan is under threat. And we have to do everything to fight this internal enemy”

Gilani: “Didn’t we send our police there? Hee.. Hee.. I saved their bullets”

Kayani: “No I was referring to the American drones. Who said Taliban is a problem? They never are a threat to our nation. They are citizens of this country and they have every right to be in power, just like any other citizen of this country. It is just that they don’t like democratic elections. And we in the military believe in that too. So they are not really a threat. Our main threat is not getting the money. Zardari, how much did you get from the Americans and others. Military needs 80 percent of it. Taliban gets 10% and the rest is for national development”

Zardari: “I’ll take my cut first and you can distribute the rest any which way you want. How much shall I take?”

Gilani: “Sahib, Why are the Americans threatening us with money? Can’t they threaten us with anything else, like war or missiles?”

Kayani: “Sh..Tone down. Let us do this. We’ll tell the Talibs to move out of Buner. Then during night, we’ll give them military uniforms and get them back in. This way the Americans will think our soldiers are there”

The satellite moved on to something else. So that’s all it could pick up :-)

Keith
“This means that when you chat with your friends in the PA, you ask them why they aren’t tackling the insurgency. Ask your friends who work in government, what they are doing to address the problems of the nation.”

Keith, I am already started doing my part, the map you posted I have pasted it in my living room (true), I have discussed it with atleast 6 or 7 of my office colleagues. I have many questions and a close friend of mine serving in Infantry will be meeting me soon, I will take up those. But let me tell you the sacrifices PA has made, I recieved a call from my brother when I was in office last year, there was a road I had just crossed cuople of hours back, my brother told me that PA Sugeon General Lt. Gen Mushtaq Ahmed has been martyred in a suicide attack on his staff car. His son is my class mate. There was another Medical corps doctor and she got disabled in one case, many other young officers and men sacrificed their lives. Are you willing to recognize the sacrifices of fallen soldiers and their families? They shed their blood to protect our freedom and we will never let them down. You can criticise the PA, but it has taken the brunt, an ISI bus was blown just meters away from where my young sister boards her school bus.
Yes, in Pakistan at government level there is some incompetence and corruption, but everyone recognizes they have to pull their socks because we are in difficulty. We recognize the threat, we have and are willing to give the sacrifice for our future and for those around the world. But the world and specially you people need to be patient and have faith, have confidence in the capability of Pakistani nation. We are resilient and able to face any crisis. Atleast provide us the moral support that we need. Unlike Iran, I am sure Pakistanis will put their act together, we have the manpower and the will and we should mobilize. People in Pakistan are now asking serious question, its like early signs of a revolution, these are trying times. But as I said we are resilient and united and capable and will come out successfully.

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive

Mauryan – “What is common between Afghanistan and Pakistan? Here are some points:
1. Both are declared Islamic states
2. Both share the Pashtun land through with the Durand line goes through……”

I agree that, Afghanistan & Pakistan have a lot in common but they also have many basic differences. For one, I feel that Afghanistan is also a victim of Pakistan, just like India. The Pakistanis, in their bid to make Afghanistan their 5th Province, made sure that the Afghans never develop & evolve and are always under a tyrannical regime, controlled by Islamabad. That’s also why the Pakistani army created & fed the Taliban.

Secondly, I’ve had a chance to meet & interact with many Afghans, here in NY & they are basically good people. They are generally, a li’l rough around the edges but they are what you see. In many ways, you can compare them to Indian sikhs. They are best friends for friends & worst enemies for their enemies. Pakistanis on the other hand are generally, ever conniving, scheming & manipulating & with them, you never get what you see.

And yeah, I have yet to meet an Afghan, who does not blame Pakistan for the current condition of their country.

Posted by Mortal | Report as abusive

Mauryan
“The satellite moved on to something else. So that’s all it could pick up”
Mauryan, the RISAT missed the most important part of the conversation. I will take you through the rest.

Phone rings: ring.. ring..

Gen. Kayani: ‘Hi!’

Gen. Kidwai: ‘Hi Sir, Kidwai! DG Strategic Plans Division. How are you doing?’

Gen. Kayani: ‘Fine, Kidwai! get down to work. Could you please mobilize your assets? I want Mumbai and Delhi on target. Make sure you have the long range Ghauris equipped with the 25 KT nuclear war head. Alert the Air Headquarters, I want a formation of F-16s to deploy immediately with tactical weapons and monitor the airspace. Any b*stards engaged in any disguised plans to harm Pakistan, should be f*cked off straight to hell.’

Gen. Kidwai: ‘Sir, please calm down. Are you sure about this? It is going to be difficult as hell, it will generate a sh*t storm. Please try to diffuse it, lets just reign in the Taliban, they are just a bunch of gun totting youngsters. Please ask the DG Military Operations to send in a battalion of our Special Services Group to bloody their noses and bring them into senses.’

Gen. Kayani: ‘Sure as hell, I am in full consensus with the civil leadership. The President and PM are with me, we will notify London and Washington. You have my word, do as I order, dont hesitate for a second, and Pakistan must not falter at any cost. As for the Taliban, its just an excuse they are after Pakistan actually ‘

Gen. Kidwai: ‘Affirmative, Right Sir! I will keep you posted on developments at my end.

… Just then,
Gilani: ‘Sir, please hangup, I have President Obama on line from Washington, he is very upset and his voice is shivering’.

Gen. Kayani:’Ok, put him on speaker phone’

Obama: ”Gen. Sir, please understand our position, we are working towards a peaceful world. It doesnt have to end like this.’’

Gen. Kayani: ‘ Listen up you, the tide has turned, it is us who will bomb the Indians back to stone age this time around. This is ten times worst than Cuban missile crisis, do you get this ? On my orders, my strategic forces are being mobilized as of now. We will take out the coward pussie* in New Delhi. No missile defense system is capable of detecting this nuclear strike. You are with us or against us?’

Obama: ‘General Sir! Mr. Holbrooke and Admiral Mullen are on their way to Islamabad in a Gulfstream jet, they stopped at Ramstein facility for refuelling and will be with you in an hour’s time. You have my word, I spoke to Mr. Singh, you have scared the sh*t out of them. They are willing to give up Kashmir, moreover I and Secretary Clinton are flying aboard Air Force One straight into Islamabad tommorow. I assure you we are staunch allies. Please dont screw the Indians, they are coward bit*hes by birth anyways always moaning about this or that. We value our friendship with Pakistan. We will settle the all outstanding matters with you soon. Also, let me know your schedule because Gordon Brown and Kevin Rudd want to see you as soon as possible. Dimitry Medvedev can wait, I will ask Nicholas Sarkozy to visit next week.’

Gen. Kayani:’ Sure, DG Operations will get in touch with White House chief of staff for appointments, next week looks open, I have a corps commanders meeting this week. Also, Marriot in Islamabad is open for Holbrook and Mullen, tell them to meet me in GHQ tommorow at 11 AM’

Obama:’General Sir! Thank you for your time at this hour.’

Gen. Kayani:’Thank you, Long Live Pakistan.’
———————————————————————————————————————— —————–
Don’t worry Mauryan, the press conference is on 5 PM Pakistan Time tomorrow. Make sure you tune in Pakistan Television Live.

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive

Umair writes: “Don’t worry Mauryan, the press conference is on 5 PM Pakistan Time tomorrow. Make sure you tune in Pakistan Television Live.”

Hee, Hee.. Even here Pakistanis can only copy. No original stuff eh, Umair? And it is on nuclear bombs here too.

Obama will not beg for stopping Pakistan from pushing the nuclear button. If you still have not seen the donkey doodle doo video that Punjabiyaar posted, see it quickly. It shows clearly what Taliban is doing to Pakistan :-)

Keith,

You ask, “what happens if another 9/11 originates from FATA?”
A 9/11 style attack will not happen, given the presence of US/NATO intelligence services in the region. But, if it does, the US will take direct measures in Pakistan which it’s hesitating to take now.

You say, “hosting terrorists is like harbouring an arsonist who is going to burn your neighbour’s house down”
You’re right. That’s precisely the reason why Pakistan has harbored terrorists. The Taliban in Afghanistan and the Punjabi terrorist groups in Kashmir have served Pakistan well. Neither coercion nor appeasement will motivate the Pak army to dismantle terrorist networks by itself. The Taliban are here to stay and they are staying low for the patience of the US/NATO to run out.

Posted by Nikhil | Report as abusive

Keith,

Am following your comments and your candid western perspective on the current crisis based on your past experiences is really commendable.
My POV is really different and might offend some of the readers…
Patching up anything on a sinking ship is not gonna yield anything. Instead of overreacting on the pak-taliban crisis and blindly pumping in billions of dollars of tax payers money in a failing administration. We should have paused all the funding and tell the pak administration to be accountable and handle the crisis as it deems best. Meanwhile increase the drones and empwower the afghan army. As the pak administration knows it is on survival mode, it’ll do the best it can to fight the menace. Let the US keep scrambling of nukes on pakistan as a high priority, in covert means during these battles. Once the devil has grown too much for the pak army to handle, there’ll be total failure of pak administration. Most likely there will be a civil war between the moderate lashkars and taliban, this where the UN steps in and weeds out the Taliban and installs democracy back in pakistan. I know it is not simple, but acting something on the course will yield better results than reigning.
I cannot think of a better solution in all this mess that Pakistan is into, and dragging and extorting the whole world. If there is a failure, there must be accountability and responsibility. If the government isn’t fit to rule two-thirds of the nation, what is the government there for then. If government doesn’t deliver on security, justice, economy or empowerment of citizen’s why should it rule? Pakistan needs a rebirth! both in leadership and thoughts…

Posted by Praveen | Report as abusive

“Obama will not beg for stopping Pakistan from pushing the nuclear button.”
Mauryan
Read BETTER SAFE THAN SORRY: IRONIES OF LIVING WITH THE BOMB by Michael Krepon. Its not easy to deal with nuclear powers in the world, only 7 nations possess these crowned jewels.

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive

No one should ever think Pakistan is harboring or hosting terrorists. Pakistan Army has lost most number of soldiers in their fight against terrorists, Pakistani civilians have paid huge price, Pakistani intelligence has apprehended most number of Al Qaeda fugitives and Pakistan is at the forefront of this.
If still someone thinks we are harboring terrorists, and hell bent to create mischief than let it be clear a resilient nation of 173 million people backed by its military are a force to be reckoned with. If the Iraq and Afghanistan wars were not enough, we will not hesitate to face another destructive war. We will fight fire with fire, we have the firepower and the will. We dont believe in unneccessary fight, but fight is thrust upon us we will fight to the last.

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive

Umair writes: “Its not easy to deal with nuclear powers in the world, only 7 nations possess these crowned jewels.”

Only a warped mind will consider these weapons as crowned jewels. If your country is such a super power, why is it dancing to the tunes of the US? Why did Musharraf switch sides when the US told you that you will be bombed back to the stone age? You can always wear the crown jewel on your head and declare that no one can dictate anything to you right? You guys do only Sabre rattling and then act cowardly when the moment presents itself to prove your claims. The US has been nice so far. Do not exploit their goodwill. Then they will do an Iraq for you.

If you as an ordinary citizen is itching to push the nuclear button for every little scare, one can imagine how your whole establishment and radical lunatics must be thinking. Right now the US is not paying attention to this mindset. Once it does, it will not hesitate to pull out your nuclear teeth. We are all simply waiting to watch that. It is only a matter of time.

Umair says:

“But let me tell you the sacrifices PA has made, I recieved a call from my brother when I was in office last year, there was a road I had just crossed cuople of hours back, my brother told me that PA Surgeon General Lt. Gen Mushtaq Ahmed has been martyred in a suicide attack on his staff car. His son is my class mate. There was another Medical corps doctor and she got disabled in one case, many other young officers and men sacrificed their lives. Are you willing to recognize the sacrifices of fallen soldiers and their families? They shed their blood to protect our freedom and we will never let them down. You can criticise the PA, but it has taken the brunt, an ISI bus was blown just meters away from where my young sister boards her school bus.”

Umair, your anger at the loss of your esteemed Army people and the loss for their families should really be pointed at the Army themselves. These are the same Fauji idiots who nurtured, supported, armed, trained and weaponized as a proxy force to agitate and start a war with its fictitious enemy neighbour India. It is this mental policy of keep enmity with India and training and support of the Taliban, which has come home to roost. Please quit making excuses, you know, and the Paki people know that is true. While it is true that the U.S. and Soviets did use these guy before, they stopped in 1988 and you Pakis’s picked up the reigns and for the last 20 years, YOU guys continued the work of weaponizing these Radical Islamists for your own selfish political and strategic means in the face of a fictitious enemy India.

India was not sending in Indian terrorists into India in huge numbers, sponsored by their Army, it was YOU Pakistani’s who were sending in these Mujaheddin. Now under that same program of training these Mujaheddin, these more recently trained Taliban have caused much carnage in Pakistan, especially against the Army, since Musharraf, their own mentor and architect turned against them since 911.

Why does the Paki Army not kill the terrorist jihadi mujahideen monster, which it, itself created? Have you learned nothing? Did your esteemed and loved Fauji’s die so that the same policies will continue? Then they died for nothing. Even in their death, those beloved Fauji’s where ever they are, I guarantee you would be preaching for no more war with India, but inner peace within Pakistan and peace for its people and no Taliban. The only way your corrupt Army will stop this deadly cycle, is if it is carefully dismantled.

It is a pity that India did not fight back against Pakistan due to Mumbai, because you guys would have leveraged every proxy asset in Pakistan to propagate an invasion of India. India is wise in this respect to use restraint. Pakistan continues to show its immaturity and lacks much wisdom in keeping hatred and antagonism against India and so do you. Your Fauji’s seem to only make political statements for calm against the taliban, after intense pressure from the US, namely Sec. Clinton.

To us, outside of Pakistan, your country appears to be teetering on the brink of collapse. An army cannot prevent the country from collapsing.

By the way, since you are so proud of your PA heritage, you and I share some commonality here in that my Great Grandfather was one of passing the Surgeon General of the Indian Army and my other Great Grandfather spent time in Jail with Nehru-ji, because they opened their mouths and wanted freedom from the British.

I assure you, the continued institutionalized hatred towards India is not enough to keep Pakistan united. With the internet and knowledge, given enough time, your people will eventually realize that their standard of life has become lower than their India counterparts and they will turn their heads towards the Fauji’s gated communities and realize that all of Pakistan’s wealth has been squandered by those rich Fauji’s and their families living their, on the heads of the avg. Pakistani. Good luck I doubt the U.S. will be willing to provide VISAs when there is a civil revolt one day against an enlightened population. An Islamist Population, uneducated would never revolt that way, but maybe that is the PA’s goal in the end, to ensure its own long-term survival inside of Pak and keeping enmity with India. Bad business plan, think of another.

Posted by Global Watcher | Report as abusive

Its not easy to deal with nuclear powers in the world, only 7 nations possess these crowned jewels.
- Posted by Umair

I guess, these ‘crowned jewels’ did real good to the citizens of Hiroshima & Nagasaki. Anyways, enjoy the ‘crowned jewels’ while you still have them, Umair. Because, as much as you & your twisted Generals are itching to use them, the world is itching even more to take them off your hands. In the mean-time, I suggest, all you Pakistanis get on your roof-tops & start screaming ‘WE HAVE THE BOMB…WE HAVE THE BOMB…WE HAVE THE BOMB’

Posted by Mortal | Report as abusive

Threats of nuclear conflict are bogus and unrealistic. Anybody who has served in any capacity in the defence sector knows this.

Policies governing nuclear weapons release are based on doctrines, guidelines for employment, etc.

I highly doubt Pakistan would nuke New Delhi or Bombay just because the US was applying pressure or because the Taliban were threatening Islamabad. If Pakistan ever made such an emotional decision, that would be the end of Pakistan. If the Indian nukes didn’t do enough damage, there’d be a strong possiblity of a US response, and the most damaging aspect to come after: Pakistan would become an international pariah for nuking another country based on a handful of emotions.

That’s not going to happen. I doubt Pakistan’s generals are idiots. In reality they have nuclear thresholds just like any other country. I doubt that even a conventional military attack by India would prompt a nuclear response. It is not acceptable for a country to wipe out millions just because it lost a few hundred kms of territory or because a few military bases or training camps went boom. The only way nukes are going to be used is if Pakistan’s survival is at stake.

This would come from the following redlines:

1) Pakistan Army is thoroughly defeated in the field and the Indians don’t stop with their victory. They keep advancing.

2) An Indian thrust through the centre of the country succeeds in reaching the Indus and nearly splitting Pakistan in half.

3) Any significant terrorist attack using WMDs originates from a neighbouring country (be it India, Iran, etc.).

Other than that I just can’t see the Paks using nuclear weapons for a few reasons:

1)threat of retaliation – using nukes is like committing suicide if you know what’s coming the other way
2) nuclear fallout – the wind can just as easily blow back into Pakistan
3) international consequences – would Pakistan be willing to be completely cut off from the international community if the IC considered its use of nuclear weapons to be unjustified?

In reality for most conflicts, I doubt Pakistan would use nukes. Even if territory was captured, I doubt they would do it. What’s the use of nuking India when you know that the territory will be returned during negotiations? Even when it comes to Kashmir, if India was somehow successful in taking back all of it, would Pakistan use nukes? Probably not. I doubt most Pakistanis care about Kashmir enough to see every major Punjabi and Sindhi city in ashes. That’s the truth of the matter.

Threats of an all out nuclear exchange are just that. Bar talk bluster. You can bet that if the world thought that Pakistani generals were emotional enough to use nukes because they woke up on the wrong side of the bed, that there would be a much more concerted effort to disarm Pakistan. I don’t think that’s the case.

Posted by Keith | Report as abusive

The Army is obeying the democratically elected govt, which thinks it can solve the problem through negotiations and peace deals.

Poor Pakistan Army! When they make decisions themselves they are condemned and when they obey an elected govt they are still condemned!

The Afghans have had a pathological hatred for Pakistan since 1948, since they still claim Pakistani land as theirs. This hatred of the Afghans had led to aggression and sponsorship of insurgency in Pakistan, as well as taking refuge in Pakistan when their own country went to the dogs.

Afghans are a rough and ingrate people with zero tolerance and zero development in their country. Even the pre-1979 glory days of Afghanistan there was just 1 university in the whole country.

Pakistan is unfortunate to have Afghanistan and India as neighbors and has done right in countering them.

@It seems to all imply a collaberation of the Pak. establishment and the Taliban for a greater end game, possible with India and defeat of the U.S. forces.

Nothing else can explain the impotence of the Pak Army and ISI through all this, while they are ready to start war with India at the drop of a dime.
- Posted by Global Watcher
–Pakistan does not have the ba$$s to play any great game against India atleast. They can play for a penny more from US–that’s all. Frankly they are all messed up. Part of Pakistan might be serious against Taliban but the other part, that matters, is for inaction against Taliban–hence this mess. Taliban is smart–using a mix of violence/not-killing where they do not have support (Buner)/playing with all weather friend Pakistan too using Muslim bro-bro against the West formula/religious fanatics as supporters. As such Taliban is doing better than the resources they got.
I hope for Pakistan’s own sake and ultimate security that Pakistan just pretend play, not for real, that India is the #1 enemy. They better not unleash India, who is sitting out and is absolutely doing constructive work in Afghanistan.

Holbrooke has been telling them nicely that forget India and focus on terror:
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/No-ev idence-to-suggest-India-backing-Pak-rebe ls-Holbrooke/articleshow/4448406.cms

“Pakistan does not have to worry about India in Afghanistan. They need to worry about the miscreants in western Pakistan,” Holbrooke said in an interview with Geo News channel at the US state department in Washington.”

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive

As long as the Kashmir dispute exists, coupled with hatred of Pakistan by Indians, as can be witnessed on this website, Pakistan will continue to focus on India as its #1 external threat.

Holbrooke is on the wrong foot if he thinks he can ignore Kashmir and still change Pakistani mindset.

@Its not easy to deal with nuclear powers in the world, only 7 nations possess these crowned jewels.
- Posted by Umair

–Umair: That’s why such a hue and cry over nuclear proliferation by Pakistan.

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive

As long as the Kashmir dispute exists, coupled with hatred of Pakistan by Indians, as can be witnessed on this website, Pakistan will continue to focus on India as its #1 external threat.
- Posted by Aamir Ali

That’s good. Keep focusing on India & Kashmir, while you lose NWFP, Baluchistan, Sindh & Punjab. That’s very smart, indeed!

Posted by Mortal | Report as abusive

@Holbrooke is on the wrong foot if he thinks he can ignore Kashmir and still change Pakistani mindset.
- Posted by Aamir Ali

-Right foot is bilateral talks.

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive

Aamir, I will pose the same question I asked in another thread, ‘How do you solve Kashmir to the satisfaction of both parties involved?’

Posted by Keith | Report as abusive

Aamir the asinine Ali writes: “As long as the Kashmir dispute exists, couple with hatred of Pakistan by Indians,… Pakistan will continue to focus on India as its # 1 external threat”

Here is something that your fellow countryman has said, after getting caught inside Kashmir by our security forces:

http://specials.rediff.com/news/2009/apr  /25slid1-pak-terrorist-held-in-kashmir- speaks.htm

You people have been living off lies. The whole Pakistani population has grown over the years with nothing constructive to do. They have learned the art of looking constipated while in reality they have serious diarrhea. Look at Kayani’s face. Musharraf was an embodiment of that expression.

Arguing with Pakistanis is not tantamount to hating. You should know the difference between disagreement, dislike, mistrust and hatred. If you fill up your head with hatred for others, you will perceive others as hating you all the time and you will react accordingly. If we hated you so much, how come we have not engaged in any violent activities inside your country like yours has been doing? Your cricket players wouldn’t have played in ICL or IPL last year.

Kashmir is an issue only for Pakistanis as they have nothing else on their agenda. It is an excuse to waste time, others’ tax money and lives. Long ago Umair told me this – “Pakistan is a reality, move on”. So Pakistanis should realize the same – “Kashmir under India’s control is now a reality. Move on.” It is going to get harder and harder to wrest anything by violence and if Americans let go off your hands, you will have nothing to feed yourself or survive, let alone manage the logistics of covert operations. You guys are losing. It would be prudent to give up your wasted efforts and turn towards nation building. Otherwise, your country is going to resemble Afghanistan.

China and the rest of the Islamic countries are no where to be seen to offer any help to Pakistan.

It is always the western powers who are helping bail Pakistan and doing their dirty work for them.

I hope the Pakistani citizens show their gratitude once in a while.

Posted by Global Watcher | Report as abusive

@China and the rest of the Islamic countries are no where to be seen to offer any help to Pakistan.

It is always the western powers who are helping bail Pakistan and doing their dirty work for them.

I hope the Pakistani citizens show their gratitude once in a while.
- Posted by Global Watcher

–Well said.

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive

Here’s a li’l something, for the Pakistani guys on this blog, to chew on. An excerpt from an address given by the wise & highly respected Pakistani Air Marshal Asghar Khan:

‘Until recently when the so-called Taliban became a problem, our defence expenditure was meant only to meet a threat from India. The fact is that in the last 60 years of our existence, India has not started hostilities against Pakistan unless provoked to do so, or until we created conditions, as we did in 1971 in East Pakistan, for India to interfere militarily….

‘Pakistan’s nuclear capability, by our own admission, is ‘India-specific’. India can justify its nuclear capability for different reasons. It has experienced hostilities with China, and is aspiring to be one of the permanent members of the Security Council, for which it feels that being a nuclear power would be a qualification. Its size, population, location and resources should, it could argue, entitle it to be a permanent member of the Security Council. Moreover, its relations with the United States and the latter’s desire to balance China’s influence and power in Asia is likely to assure for it the support of the United States and the western world….

‘If we did not have nuclear weapons, declared ourselves to be a non-nuclear state, and opened ourselves to international inspection, there would be no possibility of India or any other country using nuclear weapons against us…. [W]e should therefore prepare only for a conventional war. Wisdom demands that we stop planning for a nuclear war which, unless we start one, we will not have to fight. It is both unwise and unnecessary to prepare for the ‘wrong war’ which could destroy us even without fighting one.

Here’s the link:

http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/dawn -content-library/dawn/the-newspaper/colu mnists/ardeshir-cowasjee-wise-words-from -an-old-warrior

Posted by Mortal | Report as abusive

An interesting article from the Pakistaniat. A must read for those who claim India is always an enemy of Pakistan.

http://pakistaniat.com/2009/04/20/taliba n-pakistan/

I have been a little annoyed for some time because Pakistani people here claim RAW is responsible for all what Pakistan is today…..I quote Sammad Khurram , “No, it’s the “Hindu Zionists” (notice the contradiction?) working on a CIA sponsored conspiracy to break Pakistan. There are the good Taliban who fought the Kuffar off and the real issue is the CIA. Apparently, everyone has all the time in the world to devise every action we do, plan it to perfection and then make the evidence of their involvement disappear. Are we really that important for the rest of the world to worry about when they have their own countries and problems to tend to?”

Posted by mitchell | Report as abusive

Same old, same old, different date. The US says get cracking, someone in Pakistan says “We will fight to the last drop and save Pakistan”. Then move quietly and strike a deal, this time in Buner with the Taliban, they move away peacefully. Everyone gives Pakistan a little pat, Pakistan holds out its hand for a baksheesh, things go back to being what they were.

Whoever still believes that Pakistani forces or government are serious in handling the Taliban threat needs a quick 101 on Pak history.

Mitchell,
……RAW is responsible for all what Pakistan is today…..I quote Sammad Khurram , “No, it’s the “Hindu Zionists” (notice the contradiction?)……

indian Intel and army in has staff from all religions as is the case with lawmakers. Finally the dumb paks got it right i guess.

As long as the Kashmir dispute exists, coupled with hatred of Pakistan by Indians- Posted by Aamir Ali
Indians don’t hate Paks- typically, you hate and feel jealous if you see somebody rated over and above you. India feels the contrary about Pak. The proxy war is the concern. I was pouring over the Bangladesh liberation articles and was convinced that india never instigated the liberation struggle, its Punjabi army that slaughtered 3 million Bangladeshis. India wrote the final page of liberation, with one million refugees choking it financially in northeast. Not to mention security the exodus posed to india.Pak can fight for another 60 yrs but india will not part with land its muslim population is expanding the whereas nonmuslim population in Pak is disappearing.
Paks should know that the top policeman of Gujarat is a muslim now, and, gujarati people are having better life than indians in any other state, Im not a gujarati. The riots were reactionary, unfortunate and condemnable it is, following a horrific carnage of hindus ( burning a train load of hindu pilgrims)

Amir Ali
“As long as the Kashmir dispute exists,”
—-Huh???? What dispute??? No prob. in kashmir, it’s hale & hearty…

Posted by anup | Report as abusive

Amir Ali
“Pakistan is unfortunate…”

—Good, at last you ‘denial mode’ Pakis are accepting the truth , half-heartedly, but yet a start…

Posted by anup | Report as abusive

Aamir,

You, say “Pakistan is unfortunate to have Afghanistan and India as neighbors and has done right in countering them”.

- Aamir, Pakistan overestimates its capabilities and desires to box above its weight. Short on facts but high on imagination, Pakistan hoped to believe in some whacky theories; the martial race theory, balance of power concept, the lie of creating home for South Asian Muslims and god knows what else.

Pakistan selfishly demanded a seperate land over blood of innocents and to the tragedy of millions of others. After screwing it up, Pakis now blame their neighbors? That’s not unfortunate; it’s plain dumb and arrogant.

Posted by Nikhil | Report as abusive

The Indians on this blog take glee in all the problems of Pakistan, blame everything on Pakistan, condemn the entire the country and society and then claim the don’t hate Pakistan. At least be honest.

Pakistan is unfortunate in having a neighbor like Afghanistan, who have been hostile to Pakistan since 1947, while at the same time taking refuge in Pakistan and all other types of help.

Pakistan is also unfortunate in having a neighbor like India. with a pathological hatred of Islam and which still has not accepted the existence of Pakistan, even after 60 years.

In comes the Pakistani Army, which is a bulwark not only against India and Afghanistan, but also the India-supported terrorists, be they Baloch sardars, or Mukti Bahini or the “Pakistani Taliban” of today. The Pakistan Army are the defenders of the nation, and their capabilities need to be improved.

@Nikhil

Pakistan was formed on Muslim majority areas according to the wishes of the people of those lands. If you are unhappy over that then be unhappy and die in your unhappiness as well.

Additionally our development of nukes/missiles to counter India shows that we Pakistanis believe in solid assets. These theories of martial race etc, is trash generated by Indian hatred of Pakistan.

@Umair, Amir
We Indians don’t hate you Pakistanis. We are just irritated that you people drag us down with your policies. Not that you have succeeded much but without those constant irritating itching that you create we would have been a lot better.
We don’t blame you for our naxalite problems or for other socio-political problems which any developing country faces like poverty or illiteracy. We only blame you for harboring terrorists who along with Pakistan government are hell bent on attacking Indian sovereignty. And that is the reason all the Indians keep telling Pakistanis to keep off India. mark my words, even if you move all your army people to the north to fight the Taliban, we not attack or violate LoC. Reason being any government will not be able to justify such an action which can escalate into war to the Indian public. Also, it will find itself isolated internationally affecting its economic growth. Moreover such an action will not be seen as a matured one from a country seeking permanent seat in Security Council. So you people don’t have any worries on your eastern border. Fight the Taliban we are also worried about Taliban taking over your country. We don’t want them as neighbors. We feel we might be able to talk to you but with Taliban that will be impossible. Also, if you need help you just have to call us (though I know that will not be acceptable to you, you can take help from anyone but India), we want good relations with all our neighbors because we know that only then will we be able to grow to our actual potential.
I am not denying that Kashmir is a dispute between India and Pakistan. We have proposed a solution, you keep PoK with yourself and we keep the part that we have with us. In other words make LoC as the border. For us, that is the only solution which might be acceptable to both parties or else we can both claim to be the rightful claimants of the whole of Kashmir and keep fighting without any result. Do you people have a better solution then please provide one.
Also, you keep on saying Pakistan was build for Muslims and all that. Please tell me why do we have more Muslims in India than those in Pakistan? And do you know that BJP in Uttar Pradesh province has helped Madrassa’s to be computerized and impart contemporary education along with religious education? And do you know that some Muslims there are openly rooting for BJP victory?
I read this in the latest edition of India today, if you can then grab one and read it.
You keep harping about Gujarat.. Do you know that the same government also razed 200 temples for widening roads and other development activities? So much so that a radical Hindu outfit called Narendra Modi the ‘Mahmud of Gazni’? I am not saying what happened in 2002 was right. It was a failure of the administration much like what is happening in Pakistan now.
Do you know that your Jinnah wanted a secular Pakistan and not an Islamic one?
You keep blaming RAW, where is proof? Even the mighty US with all its technology can’t find any links implicating RAW but has openly accused ISI of being in cahoots with Taliban.
Also, Muslims in India have the same rights that Hindus have. Infact they have their own personal law board that allows them greater freedom in socio-religious activities than Hindus have. Do you know that the Government of India provides subsidy to Haj Pilgrims? Which other non-muslim country provides that?
I accept that as Indians we have a lot more to do before we truly realize our potential but for that to happen unhindered we need Pakistan to stop sponsoring terrorism.
The whole world agrees that to maintain parity with Indian conventional army Pakistan resorted to supporting and training miltitants in PoK.
And what are Pakistanis afraid of? India never attacked Pakistan, she has only retaliated and even Bangladesh was a creation of Pakistan’s flawed policies towards their Bengal counterparts. India reacted to the high influx of refugees and the financial burden the refugees was putting on her. Even some Pakistani generals admit that.

http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/dawn -content-library/dawn/the-newspaper/colu mnists/16-ardeshir-cowasjee-wise-words-f rom-an-old-warrior-hs-04

On the article above, I believe its all hogwash. The Taliban moving back without fighting is not easily digestible. In my opinion the ISI/ Pak military had an agreement with taliban to move away from Buner for international communities’ consumption and promptly followed it with that speech of Gen. Kiyani’s. I will be convinced if PA gets SWAT back in its command. Even then it will be a long way march for normalcy in Pakistan but that will be a major trust building measure.

Posted by Aman | Report as abusive

Amir Ali
“The Pakistan Army are the defenders of the nation, and their capabilities need to be improved.”

–Agree, the Pak army has got to be upgraded from their present state of a terrorist outfit & turned into American Highway patrol of Pakistan…

Posted by anup | Report as abusive

The reuters blog is just out to be a Pakistan bashing forum for Indians, all retarted Indians have contributed are following fabricatged silly jokes:
1. Pakistan is teetering on the brink of collapse.
2. Pak Army and ISI are terrorist organizations and Indian Army and RAW has always done relief and humanitarian work.
3. India has suddenly become the global super power, everyone from UK to Australia to the US is desperate to become friend with India.
3. Pakistan is just about to collapse, Pakistani forces and its 173 million people will just simply sit idle while Pakistan falls apart, Taliban will come marching towards Islamabad, Army will just disappear.
4. The nuclear weapons will either be attacked or snatched by the US, or in the event, since they are ‘made in China’ they will not work when Pakistan tries to use them .
5 The Pakistan are begging around the world with their begging bowl and Pakistan will be finished soon.

Dear Indian friends, you guys have time and again depicted your lack of understanding of the world around you, you seem to be in a state of denial about Pakistan. So much hatred, you cant swallow the idea of Pakistan. You are just merely fantacising the end of Pakistan.
Nothing of that sort is going to ever happen, every country has internal challenges, every country has external enemies. Pakistan has its share of economic woes, but unity is our real threat. Believe me, a NON-NUCLEAR but united Pakistan with 173 million resilient people is much more strong. We dont draw our strength from nukes or Army, unity is our most strongest weapon.
All Indians must sit tight and mind their daily lives, dont expect any adventures, things like Pakistan collapsing. Enjoy your lives because we are here and are not going up or down anytime soon. We are not ‘imploding’, ‘collapsing’, ‘teetering on the brink of collapse’. I would very much like to see valueable contributions by Indians on this blog rather than just engaing in stupid and useless rhetoric. I mean its just a suggestion, if anyone still feels necessary to prove himself an idiot than by all means go ahead, who can stop you.

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive

@The Pakistan Army are the defenders of the nation, and their capabilities need to be improved.
- Posted by Aamir Ali

-Lucky you who does not live in SWAT. Say the above to a SWATI with no Taliban around, and they will give you their piece of mind. Imagine you saying this on loud speaker in SWAT and you will be chased your way into Punjab.
Paki Army as “defenders of the nation”–Look at the history PArmy could never defend the nation. History speaks for itself. Aggressive fools they are but stupid big time losers at the same time.

India hates Pakistan, you say? So be it. Pakistan has earned it though hard work of brainwashed innocents and Pak foreign policy.
Each time a terrorist is produced inside Pakistan against India, anti-India hatred is created inside the minds of Kasab type terrorists by systematic dirty tricks of ISI/Pak Army/LeT-all in the name of Islam-many Pakistanis support this action of ISI since it is for national cause and the Kashmiris (my foot). When Kasab types are caught by India, each of you including LeT disown him—now he is not a true Muslim. There is fundamental problem—Islam and politics mix for causing trouble, not for gaining strength to advance the nation. Please clarify if there is any inaccuracy. Your silence will be taken as that you agree with me.

Right now, it is not India but the whole world that hates Pakistan.

We do not hate Pakistanis. We do not hate Islam. Pakistan changes its pro-terror policies, it will all fine. We have Muslim population as large as Pakistan inside India. I have many Muslim friends. So don’t teach Indians love for a religion and co-existence as a neighbor. Let it also be clear that Pakistanis have no clue about Muslims in India. They openly told Musharraf a month ago that Pakistan should leave Indian Muslims alone and do not play politics. Start appreciating the diversity in Islam, which you have not done so far, and you will be peaceful.

And below is your expression of love for India and Afghanistan:
“Pakistan is unfortunate to have Afghanistan and India as neighbors and has done right in countering them”.

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive

Sanjeev
With due respect, I think it is time Reuters start doing some proper moderating. The number of Indians contributing to this blog have risen, most of the comments are low quality and substance, again and again same old rants are repeated against Pakistan and its armed forces. It turns out to be insult for the fallen officers, men and their families. Please let us not do such humiliating things, the life of a soldier is the same be an indian or Pakistani. Could you please ensure that the quality of debate is improved on reuters? Thank you

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive

@On the article above, I believe its all hogwash. The Taliban moving back without fighting is not easily digestible. In my opinion the ISI/ Pak military had an agreement with taliban to move away from Buner for international communities’ consumption and promptly followed it with that speech of Gen. Kiyani’s. I will be convinced if PA gets SWAT back in its command. Even then it will be a long way march for normalcy in Pakistan but that will be a major trust building measure.
- Posted by Aman

-Aman: The reason could be the meeting on May 6-7 with Obama/Karzai/Zardari.

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive

Sanjeev:
Respectfully:
I gave a thought to my friend Umair’s message posted to you. I am taking the liberty of jumping in since I ferlt so. What he said works both ways. My opinion is that as long as the Reuters house rules (footnote in comment box) are obeyed it should be OK. But is it that those stay away-mostly Pakistanis–do not have logic to face the reasoning of Indian bloggers? What I have seen that non-Indian bloggers (US, Canada) share Indian bloggers views about Pakistan. Emerging situation is a global worry and no one in the world has better and more genuine reason than Indians (and Afghanistanis) who have suffered at the hand of Pakistan’s foreign policy. While Umair is ultra-sensitive to Indian bloggers’ comments on Pak Army, Umair should know that Indian Army Jawans and officers/paramilitary forces have laid down their lives for the country in unnecessary wars and terrorism started by Pakistan. Pakistani bloggers need to have better shock absorbers than they have for meaningful and sincere discussions. While Lahore attack by terrorists is a new worry for Pakistani Punjabis (their own making), I have witnessed the Pak-supported terrorism for 15yrs in Indian Punjab, resulting in thousands dead in a secular fashion. And of course Pak-supported Kashmir terrorism, even if we forget Mumbai type acts. The minimum a Pakistani blogger can do is to start appreciating all this. How many Pakistanis died due to India and how many Indians have died due to Pakistan? The answer needs no investigation but Pakistanis are so unreceptive and blind to their convenience; will not acknowledge that Pakistan has attacked India in all wars and never used the word “terrorist” for LeTs and expecting Indians to be respectful towards Pakistan. Who knows better than former Pakistani Air Chief Asghar Khan and respected political leader, who “squarely blamed Pakistan for the 1965 and 1971 wars and strongly opposed the war with India over the Bangladesh issue in 1971″. Currently, while Indians are dying because of Pakistan, and these Pakistani bloggers, who have the safety that they will not be dying because of India-supported terror so-far, cannot take such a small inconvenience of aggressive reasoning, commonly called by them as “bashing”.

Sanjeev, using Umair’ parlance, “Could you please ensure that a Pakistani blogger accepts that LeT and all other hyphenated organization, which are killing Indians and have killed in the past, are terrorist organizations?

Thank you!

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive

Aamir,

“These theories of martial race etc, is trash generated by Indian hatred of Pakistan”

- Pick any book on Pakistan written by Pakistanis themselves and you will get the reference of some silly theories. No Indian coined these phrases.

Posted by Nikhil | Report as abusive

The war between Pakistan and India is not confined to the soldiers. It goes on in every front – in sports, in media, in the hearts of the people. And it has gotten worse with time. In general, Pakistanis are living off a lot lies that have been repeated a thousand times over to them. To them now, they are absolute truths. They have no hard facts on hand when pressed. They go quiet and hide when references are given and asked to produce counter-references. Then they come out shouting “Inshallah!, Pakistan Zindabad!” and start their ignorant rally all over again. The reason more and more Indians are coming out to express their frustration is because of this cyclical emptiness that Pakistanis, not only in this forum, but also elsewhere exhibit. And they do not realize their double faced attitude. If a white man talks to them, they sound very reasonable, full of courtesy and even agree to their faults. If it comes from an Indian, their emotions shut off their eyes and they vehemently deny the same things that they agreed with the white man. Their low self esteem makes them compare themselves with India all the time and they have wasted all their energy all these years trying to out-do India by wrongful means. And their low self esteem wants others to acknowledge that India is also an evil nation. This is why Indians try hard to reason with them. So long as Pakistanis do not change their attitude towards Indians, we will keep reminding them. They have become very clever in playing victims while supporting the victimization of others. People are trying to be polite in general. But as far as us Indians are concerned, we will retaliate if we are not respected. If it hurts, let the Pakistanis look at themselves and be truthful.

Mauryan and Rajeev
If you state 100 times that Pakistan Army and ISI are a terrorist organization, that Pakistan is a terrorist sponsoring nation, does that become aggressive reasoning? Your friend, Global watcher, simply has nothing to state than some typical jingoistic statements, like Pakistan is epicenter of terrorism, blah blah blah. Most of the times old statements are repeated again and again. Dear friends, this is what I would call sraightforward stupidity, this is not debate, discussion or reasoning. This is an attempt on your part to prove yourselves idiots.
Now Mauryan, me or my nation Pakistan suffers absolutely no inferiority complex or low self esteem. Pakistan is, what it is, a leading muslim nation a nuclear power. We are part of muslim world, most Pakistanis will call themselves muslims first and than Pakistanis, our aspirations are different.
So, in short its about time you guys start some reasoning than just engaging in Pakistan bashing. Because six months back Global watcher started his rants on Reuters blog that Pakistan will implode, my question is, did Pakistan implode? Can you predict If Pakistan will implode in future? how soon? Absolute and utter nonsense. Now who can stop Global watcher of stating that ‘Pakistan is teetering on the verge of collapse’, I am merely suggesting not to indludge into stupidity and make yourself the laughing stock on the reuters blog.

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive

Umair writes: “me or my nation Pakistan suffers absolutely no inferiority complex or low self esteem. Pakistan is, what it is, a leading muslim nation a nuclear power. We are part of muslim world, most Pakistanis will call themselves muslims first and than Pakistanis, our aspirations are different.”

You mentioned to Keith about the low self esteem of Pakistanis and “Indians” not long ago. I told you not to club us with you.

You claimed that Pakistani military defeated India in the 1948, 1965, Kargil wars. I provided references to prove that the truth is otherwise and asked you to provide references to substantiate your claims. You never did.

You claimed that India has 7 embassies in Afghanistan, whose only function is to cause trouble to Pakistan. I asked for clear information and proof of this and you never provided anything to support your claims. Now Holbrooke has clearly mentioned that there are 7 staff members in the Indian embassy in Kandahar and has praised India’s efforts in help rebuilding Afghanistan.

You simply said,”Inshallah!, Pakistan Zindabad,” and slipped under the desk.

Then slowly you started starting from square one again.
I see total emptiness in your claims and that of your countrymen. Even your military personnel are lying their heads off to cover for their hurt feelings. Accept the truth where it should be and you will not see this much antagonism. But if you keep repeating lies to convert them into truths, we will prevent it.

Pakistan’s collapse may not happen in six months. But it is work in progress. One day you will learn this in a refugee camp.

Umair writes: “If you state 100 times that Pakistan Army and ISI are a terrorist organization, that Pakistan is a terrorist sponsoring nation, does that become aggressive reasoning?”

Where did we say that the ISI is a terrorist organization/ We said that there is a serious nexus between the ISI and militant organizations. And we don’t have to prove it. It has been mentioned by the Americans themselves. Pakistan’s support of terrorists is a known fact. And Military rules Pakistan. Can you connect the dots? All terrorists engaged in Kashmir, Chechnya, Central Asia, Bali, Somalia, New York, London, Madrid and so on have their roots in Pakistan. And it is now called as the “hot bed” of terrorism. Hillary has called your country as being in “mortal danger.” Do I need to say more? Or are you blind?

Umair claims: “We are part of muslim world, most Pakistanis will call themselves muslims first and than Pakistanis, our aspirations are different.””

You can classify yourselves any which way you want. The rest of the world sees you as a part of a radicalized Islamic world, sponsoring terrorists and fundamentalists with nukes and your aspirations are definitely not in building your nation. If that was wrong, then these 62 years wouldn’t have gone waste. You guys have gone weapon crazy, trying to buy the latest weapons in the market and brandish them like immature people who borrow money to buy Hummer vehicles and replace their tires with giant tires. It is a show off thing and it comes from low self esteem.

Umair – “Most of the times old statements are repeated again and again. Dear friends, this is what I would call sraightforward stupidity”

Stating facts, over & over is not stupidity. Denying them over & over and living in delusion, most certainly is!

Posted by Mortal | Report as abusive

Umair writes: “This is an attempt on your part to prove yourselves idiots.”

When dealing with idiots, we have to use a language that they understand. Hence we have to do what we do. Even that has not helped. Can you whack yourself because we can’t do it remotely? May be that will help. Also whack a few others near you so that they can see some sense.

Mauryan
“Pakistan’s collapse may not happen in six months. But it is work in progress. One day you will learn this in a refugee camp.”
Boy o boy, you guys are stubborn, look I was born in a free Pakistan and I would prefer to die in a free Pakistan. And let me tell you for every single secret plan in progress to harm Pakistan, the ISI runs 10 counter plans, gathring intel, analyzing options, looking at different scenarios and gurading Pakistan from side. So we are covered, dont worry about us.

What I stated was that India and Pakistan went nuclear for self esteem and prestige. Its not me who stated that, I have a full pdf report form an American think tank that said that. So shut up and dont misinterpret me.

Mauryan, do yourself a favor, just drop the idea of Pakistan’s collapse, because when you have a nation as big as 173 million and resilient and capable, you are dead sure it is hell bent to safeguard their country. Refugee camps, well I have full sympathy for those people in refugee camps, be they Palestinians or Bosnians. Its about time you do search on Pakistan’s role in 1967, 73 Arab-Israeli and 1995 Bosnian wars. Pakistan Army and Pakistan Air Force helped our brothers in the hour of need. And it is always expected from Pakistan, a leader of muslim world. As I said our aspirations are different, we helped refugees when it matterd to them, God forbid if there is difficult time upon us, you will see many friends come out in our support not giving us refuge, but fighting side by side with us and shed their blood for Pakistan.
Long Live Pakistan!

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive

Mauryan
You are like a dog, if someone just ignores you it is ok with you. As soon as a small piece of bone is thrown at you , off you go start barking and going after a person.

So here is waht I am gonna do, bark as much as you can, I will ignore as I have been doing. The level of self esteem you have is evident from the vulgar language you use.

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive

Umair writes: “What I stated was that India and Pakistan went nuclear for self esteem and prestige. Its not me who stated that, I have a full pdf report form an American think tank that said that. So shut up and dont misinterpret me.”

Provide the reference. Otherwise you are calling a bluff. We know why India went nuclear. It was not from low self esteem. We knew what we were up against. It was the time of cold war and the Chinese were shaking hands with the Americans.

Why Pakistan went nuclear is not unclear. India had nuclear weapons so somehow Pakistan had to have it. When the Prime Minister of a nation says, “Pakistan will have a nuclear bomb. Even if we have eat grass so be it,” it clearly shows the low self esteem. It is like a woman saying, my child may die of illness, but I got to have that necklace that the other woman has. That is comparing status and a clear symbol of low self esteem.

Now provide me with the reference of this “think tank.” I hope it is not like the other think tanks where your claims have disappeared into thin air. And even if that American think tank said whatever it said, it hardly matters to us. We know our needs and it is not due to low self esteem. So speak for yourself and your countrymen.

Umair gives up: “So here is waht I am gonna do, bark as much as you can, I will ignore as I have been doing. The level of self esteem you have is evident from the vulgar language you use.”

That is called defeat. One Pakistani down. More to go. We will take them one by one by the power of reason. We don’t need nukes to shake their heads. And reason will appear like barking to dogs. Sit in the corner as your master says.

Umair, your frustration, to an extent, is understandable. It must indeed be difficult for you, to see your country get trashed, humiliated & berated in global forums like these.

I’d like to make a couple of points about what your earlier comment. Firstly, What you call ‘fabricated silly jokes by Indians’ are actually ‘Hard & Substantiated FACTS’, which are pretty much universally accepted, except of course, by most Pakistanis.

Secondly, If you think that it’s just Indians who are saying these things about Pakistan, then you’re sadly mistaken. People all over the world, on any blog or discussion on Pakistan, are saying pretty much the same kinda things or even worse, about Pakistan & most of them are not Indian.

Most of the things that you Pakistanis say, are either unsubstantiated or completely fictional in nature. Yes, it must be good for you to say morale-boosting stuff like “We 170 million Pakistanis are United” & “Nothing can break our resolve” & “Our army is the best” etc etc but at the end of the day, it’s all just meaningless blabber devoid of any substance, whatsoever.

Posted by Mortal | Report as abusive

Umair rants: “Mauryan, do yourself a favor, just drop the idea of Pakistan’s collapse, because when you have a nation as big as 173 million and resilient and capable, you are dead sure it is hell bent to safeguard their country.”

I don’t care what happens to Pakistan. If it collapses, well it’s too bad. I am only going to worry about its repercussions towards my country. So long as your collapse or bandaged condition of your nation does not affect us, I do not care. You can keep your 173 million citizens and start in breeding. The hell I care! But I read news and I can discuss about world events just like anyone else. And people are talking about the collapse of Pakistan. Whether that happens or not is entirely on your hands. So you worry about it and we will watch the news and discuss.

Umair: ‘American think tank’ consisting of Pakistani Generals, Heads of ISI & Mullahs? Lmao….Now you’re making stuff up, man!

Posted by Mortal | Report as abusive

@Mauryan and Rajeev
If you state 100 times that Pakistan Army and ISI are a terrorist organization, that Pakistan is a terrorist sponsoring nation, does that become aggressive reasoning?
-by Umair

Umair: Here are the facts:
1. Pakistan attacked India and started wars (refrence is ex-chief Mr. Asghar Khan of PAF).

2. Pakistan supported/trained without which Sikh terrorism was not viable for 15yrs–If I am not wrong 21,000 lives lost. Pakistan is till giving shelter to top terrorists.

3. pakistan started the Kashmir terrorism and is supporting.

4. The random bomb blasts in India (no proofs to my knowledge for many) are by Pakistan trained militants.

5. Mumbai attack was by Pakistani(s) terrorist Kasab, from LeT, which is supported by Pakistan.

6. Pakistan Army and terrorist organization LeT have fought agaisnt India shoulder-to-shoulder.

7. I have heard comments “let us give uniforms to militants to fight against India” from at least 2 Pakistani bloggers.

…..so on and so forth.

Now what does this make Pakistan and ISI. I will leave it to the readers own analysis.

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive

@when you have a nation as big as 173 million and resilient and capable, you are dead sure it is hell bent to safeguard their country.
-posted by Umair

-Umair: Then how can you explain collapse of USSR, the superpower with international network of KGB agents. I am reasoning with the statement.

If you forgotten, India does not want Pakistan’s disintegration for India’s own stability.

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive

Just at the time of Zardari’s visit to the US,The Pak military has restarted its socalled operation which will finish as soon as the cheque gets encashed and the military elite laugh all their way to their banks in Switzerland!!
This statement is akin to a man saying a caged lion is no threat.Well it isnt cause its caged!!
The Pak army has no resolve to fight, they just want to have a merry time.
It is beyond doubt that Pakistan has supported militant activity in India whose repercussions we are dealing since the Frankestein has come back.
I believe now it should be end game.We should wipe off this militant threat once and for all and give international guarantees that we wont indulge in militancy in other countries.This will help us get international help and fixing the situation.Lets admit it and cure the problem rather than not doing anything till the doctor says you have one day to live?

Posted by Suleman Maniya,Gotdeborg,Sweden | Report as abusive

I SERIOUSLY DONT THINK WE NEED HISTORY LESSONS OR INSIGHT LECTURES FROM INDIANS TO FIGURE OUT WHAT OUR MILITARY AND INTELLIGENCY IS DOING AND THE ROLE INDIA IN COLLABORATION WITH OTHER COUNTRIES IS DOING TO DESTABILIZE PAKISTAN.India has always been involved in playing side games in pakistan and it wouldnt be surprising to know that indian consulates in afghanistan and providing aid to the taleban.
Instead of ranting about pakistanis being raised in the dark and making fabricated lame stories about pakistanis not aware of the truth and living on a non-existant and false ideology indians would be better of trying to focus on their own country,
India is nothing to be jealous off.All it has is economic growth for the rich people and more poverty for the poor people.Its military or intelligence is noting to be afraid of since it ranks no where near the developed countries and was unable to handle 8 gunmen in mumbai.The hatred indians have against pakistan can be realized from the fact that the indian media blames everything that happens in their country on pakistan.Besides the fact that india has more violent hindu extremists and criminal organizations than pakistan has talibans.
Pakistanis do not need advice from indians on what to do and what not.Indians have a history of making lame stories like all of the above mentioned comments by bringing in one sided stories and facts in whose occurence they also played major conspiracy roles..

Posted by Pakistani | Report as abusive

Pakistani:
@I SERIOUSLY DONT THINK WE NEED HISTORY LESSONS OR INSIGHT LECTURES FROM INDIANS TO FIGURE OUT WHAT OUR MILITARY AND INTELLIGENCY IS DOING AND THE ROLE INDIA IN COLLABORATION WITH OTHER COUNTRIES IS DOING TO DESTABILIZE PAKISTAN.
- Posted by Pakistani

Pakistani: If you are alergic to Indian medicine, take it from WISE Pakistanis.

Click to listen to the wise words of the Pakistan ex-Air Marshal Asghar Khan:
http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/dawn -content-library/dawn/the-newspaper/colu mnists/16-ardeshir-cowasjee-wise-words-f rom-an-old-warrior-hs-04

Go to Dawn and read Kamran Shafi etc.

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive