Pakistan Army says militants will not be allowed to dictate terms

April 24, 2009

Is the Pakistan army getting ready to act against the Taliban militants who have made the deepest advance yet into the country, seizing control of Buner district, 100 km (60 miles) from Islamabad, after taking over Swat region?

The militants began withdrawing on Friday just as quietly as they moved into the district, and it wasn’t clear what had led to the sudden withdrawal.

It came just as Pakistan army chief General Ashfaq Kayani issued a statement saying the army “will not allow the militants to dictate terms to the government or impose their way of life on the civil society of Pakistan.”

It must be one of the strongest statements yet from the army chief since the government made a peace deal with the Islamists in the Swat valley and comes on top of some rather menacing  noises from Washington.

U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton said Pakistan posed a mortal threat to the world by abdicating  to militants, and Defense Secretary Robert Gates said relations could be affected.

A small force of less than 300 paramilitary soldiers was sent to Buner on Thursday after the Taliban advance triggered global alarm. The poorly-equipped force was repulsed, and the question obviously arose as to why the army was not going in.

It is a question that has cropped up each time the militants have acted with impunity. It came up when their threats were rewarded with a peace deal in Swat deal and again when a teenage girl was flogged in public.

Kayani said a pause in operations was meant to give conciliatory forces a chance and shouldn’t be misconstrued as a concession to militants.

Is the Pakistan army readying for an offensive? U.S. officials remain sceptical and the New York Times quotes a defense department official as saying troops from the poorly trained constabulary force were sent to Buner on Thursday because Pakistan army troops were not available. He also said the generals were reluctant to pull reinforcements off the border with India.

Comments

Here’s a li’l something, for the Pakistani guys on this blog, to chew on. An excerpt from an address given by the wise & highly respected Pakistani Air Marshal Asghar Khan:

‘Until recently when the so-called Taliban became a problem, our defence expenditure was meant only to meet a threat from India. The fact is that in the last 60 years of our existence, India has not started hostilities against Pakistan unless provoked to do so, or until we created conditions, as we did in 1971 in East Pakistan, for India to interfere militarily….

‘Pakistan’s nuclear capability, by our own admission, is ‘India-specific’. India can justify its nuclear capability for different reasons. It has experienced hostilities with China, and is aspiring to be one of the permanent members of the Security Council, for which it feels that being a nuclear power would be a qualification. Its size, population, location and resources should, it could argue, entitle it to be a permanent member of the Security Council. Moreover, its relations with the United States and the latter’s desire to balance China’s influence and power in Asia is likely to assure for it the support of the United States and the western world….

‘If we did not have nuclear weapons, declared ourselves to be a non-nuclear state, and opened ourselves to international inspection, there would be no possibility of India or any other country using nuclear weapons against us…. [W]e should therefore prepare only for a conventional war. Wisdom demands that we stop planning for a nuclear war which, unless we start one, we will not have to fight. It is both unwise and unnecessary to prepare for the ‘wrong war’ which could destroy us even without fighting one.

Here’s the link:

http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/dawn -content-library/dawn/the-newspaper/colu mnists/ardeshir-cowasjee-wise-words-from -an-old-warrior

Posted by Mortal | Report as abusive
 

An interesting article from the Pakistaniat. A must read for those who claim India is always an enemy of Pakistan.

http://pakistaniat.com/2009/04/20/taliba n-pakistan/

I have been a little annoyed for some time because Pakistani people here claim RAW is responsible for all what Pakistan is today…..I quote Sammad Khurram , “No, it’s the “Hindu Zionists” (notice the contradiction?) working on a CIA sponsored conspiracy to break Pakistan. There are the good Taliban who fought the Kuffar off and the real issue is the CIA. Apparently, everyone has all the time in the world to devise every action we do, plan it to perfection and then make the evidence of their involvement disappear. Are we really that important for the rest of the world to worry about when they have their own countries and problems to tend to?”

Posted by mitchell | Report as abusive
 

Same old, same old, different date. The US says get cracking, someone in Pakistan says “We will fight to the last drop and save Pakistan”. Then move quietly and strike a deal, this time in Buner with the Taliban, they move away peacefully. Everyone gives Pakistan a little pat, Pakistan holds out its hand for a baksheesh, things go back to being what they were.

Whoever still believes that Pakistani forces or government are serious in handling the Taliban threat needs a quick 101 on Pak history.

 

Mitchell,
……RAW is responsible for all what Pakistan is today…..I quote Sammad Khurram , “No, it’s the “Hindu Zionists” (notice the contradiction?)……

indian Intel and army in has staff from all religions as is the case with lawmakers. Finally the dumb paks got it right i guess.

 

As long as the Kashmir dispute exists, coupled with hatred of Pakistan by Indians- Posted by Aamir Ali
Indians don’t hate Paks- typically, you hate and feel jealous if you see somebody rated over and above you. India feels the contrary about Pak. The proxy war is the concern. I was pouring over the Bangladesh liberation articles and was convinced that india never instigated the liberation struggle, its Punjabi army that slaughtered 3 million Bangladeshis. India wrote the final page of liberation, with one million refugees choking it financially in northeast. Not to mention security the exodus posed to india.Pak can fight for another 60 yrs but india will not part with land its muslim population is expanding the whereas nonmuslim population in Pak is disappearing.
Paks should know that the top policeman of Gujarat is a muslim now, and, gujarati people are having better life than indians in any other state, Im not a gujarati. The riots were reactionary, unfortunate and condemnable it is, following a horrific carnage of hindus ( burning a train load of hindu pilgrims)

 

Amir Ali
“As long as the Kashmir dispute exists,”
—-Huh???? What dispute??? No prob. in kashmir, it’s hale & hearty…

Posted by anup | Report as abusive
 

Amir Ali
“Pakistan is unfortunate…”

—Good, at last you ‘denial mode’ Pakis are accepting the truth , half-heartedly, but yet a start…

Posted by anup | Report as abusive
 

Aamir,

You, say “Pakistan is unfortunate to have Afghanistan and India as neighbors and has done right in countering them”.

- Aamir, Pakistan overestimates its capabilities and desires to box above its weight. Short on facts but high on imagination, Pakistan hoped to believe in some whacky theories; the martial race theory, balance of power concept, the lie of creating home for South Asian Muslims and god knows what else.

Pakistan selfishly demanded a seperate land over blood of innocents and to the tragedy of millions of others. After screwing it up, Pakis now blame their neighbors? That’s not unfortunate; it’s plain dumb and arrogant.

Posted by Nikhil | Report as abusive
 

The Indians on this blog take glee in all the problems of Pakistan, blame everything on Pakistan, condemn the entire the country and society and then claim the don’t hate Pakistan. At least be honest.

Pakistan is unfortunate in having a neighbor like Afghanistan, who have been hostile to Pakistan since 1947, while at the same time taking refuge in Pakistan and all other types of help.

Pakistan is also unfortunate in having a neighbor like India. with a pathological hatred of Islam and which still has not accepted the existence of Pakistan, even after 60 years.

In comes the Pakistani Army, which is a bulwark not only against India and Afghanistan, but also the India-supported terrorists, be they Baloch sardars, or Mukti Bahini or the “Pakistani Taliban” of today. The Pakistan Army are the defenders of the nation, and their capabilities need to be improved.

 

@Nikhil

Pakistan was formed on Muslim majority areas according to the wishes of the people of those lands. If you are unhappy over that then be unhappy and die in your unhappiness as well.

Additionally our development of nukes/missiles to counter India shows that we Pakistanis believe in solid assets. These theories of martial race etc, is trash generated by Indian hatred of Pakistan.

 

@Umair, Amir
We Indians don’t hate you Pakistanis. We are just irritated that you people drag us down with your policies. Not that you have succeeded much but without those constant irritating itching that you create we would have been a lot better.
We don’t blame you for our naxalite problems or for other socio-political problems which any developing country faces like poverty or illiteracy. We only blame you for harboring terrorists who along with Pakistan government are hell bent on attacking Indian sovereignty. And that is the reason all the Indians keep telling Pakistanis to keep off India. mark my words, even if you move all your army people to the north to fight the Taliban, we not attack or violate LoC. Reason being any government will not be able to justify such an action which can escalate into war to the Indian public. Also, it will find itself isolated internationally affecting its economic growth. Moreover such an action will not be seen as a matured one from a country seeking permanent seat in Security Council. So you people don’t have any worries on your eastern border. Fight the Taliban we are also worried about Taliban taking over your country. We don’t want them as neighbors. We feel we might be able to talk to you but with Taliban that will be impossible. Also, if you need help you just have to call us (though I know that will not be acceptable to you, you can take help from anyone but India), we want good relations with all our neighbors because we know that only then will we be able to grow to our actual potential.
I am not denying that Kashmir is a dispute between India and Pakistan. We have proposed a solution, you keep PoK with yourself and we keep the part that we have with us. In other words make LoC as the border. For us, that is the only solution which might be acceptable to both parties or else we can both claim to be the rightful claimants of the whole of Kashmir and keep fighting without any result. Do you people have a better solution then please provide one.
Also, you keep on saying Pakistan was build for Muslims and all that. Please tell me why do we have more Muslims in India than those in Pakistan? And do you know that BJP in Uttar Pradesh province has helped Madrassa’s to be computerized and impart contemporary education along with religious education? And do you know that some Muslims there are openly rooting for BJP victory?
I read this in the latest edition of India today, if you can then grab one and read it.
You keep harping about Gujarat.. Do you know that the same government also razed 200 temples for widening roads and other development activities? So much so that a radical Hindu outfit called Narendra Modi the ‘Mahmud of Gazni’? I am not saying what happened in 2002 was right. It was a failure of the administration much like what is happening in Pakistan now.
Do you know that your Jinnah wanted a secular Pakistan and not an Islamic one?
You keep blaming RAW, where is proof? Even the mighty US with all its technology can’t find any links implicating RAW but has openly accused ISI of being in cahoots with Taliban.
Also, Muslims in India have the same rights that Hindus have. Infact they have their own personal law board that allows them greater freedom in socio-religious activities than Hindus have. Do you know that the Government of India provides subsidy to Haj Pilgrims? Which other non-muslim country provides that?
I accept that as Indians we have a lot more to do before we truly realize our potential but for that to happen unhindered we need Pakistan to stop sponsoring terrorism.
The whole world agrees that to maintain parity with Indian conventional army Pakistan resorted to supporting and training miltitants in PoK.
And what are Pakistanis afraid of? India never attacked Pakistan, she has only retaliated and even Bangladesh was a creation of Pakistan’s flawed policies towards their Bengal counterparts. India reacted to the high influx of refugees and the financial burden the refugees was putting on her. Even some Pakistani generals admit that.

http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/dawn -content-library/dawn/the-newspaper/colu mnists/16-ardeshir-cowasjee-wise-words-f rom-an-old-warrior-hs-04

On the article above, I believe its all hogwash. The Taliban moving back without fighting is not easily digestible. In my opinion the ISI/ Pak military had an agreement with taliban to move away from Buner for international communities’ consumption and promptly followed it with that speech of Gen. Kiyani’s. I will be convinced if PA gets SWAT back in its command. Even then it will be a long way march for normalcy in Pakistan but that will be a major trust building measure.

Posted by Aman | Report as abusive
 

Amir Ali
“The Pakistan Army are the defenders of the nation, and their capabilities need to be improved.”

–Agree, the Pak army has got to be upgraded from their present state of a terrorist outfit & turned into American Highway patrol of Pakistan…

Posted by anup | Report as abusive
 

The reuters blog is just out to be a Pakistan bashing forum for Indians, all retarted Indians have contributed are following fabricatged silly jokes:
1. Pakistan is teetering on the brink of collapse.
2. Pak Army and ISI are terrorist organizations and Indian Army and RAW has always done relief and humanitarian work.
3. India has suddenly become the global super power, everyone from UK to Australia to the US is desperate to become friend with India.
3. Pakistan is just about to collapse, Pakistani forces and its 173 million people will just simply sit idle while Pakistan falls apart, Taliban will come marching towards Islamabad, Army will just disappear.
4. The nuclear weapons will either be attacked or snatched by the US, or in the event, since they are ‘made in China’ they will not work when Pakistan tries to use them .
5 The Pakistan are begging around the world with their begging bowl and Pakistan will be finished soon.

Dear Indian friends, you guys have time and again depicted your lack of understanding of the world around you, you seem to be in a state of denial about Pakistan. So much hatred, you cant swallow the idea of Pakistan. You are just merely fantacising the end of Pakistan.
Nothing of that sort is going to ever happen, every country has internal challenges, every country has external enemies. Pakistan has its share of economic woes, but unity is our real threat. Believe me, a NON-NUCLEAR but united Pakistan with 173 million resilient people is much more strong. We dont draw our strength from nukes or Army, unity is our most strongest weapon.
All Indians must sit tight and mind their daily lives, dont expect any adventures, things like Pakistan collapsing. Enjoy your lives because we are here and are not going up or down anytime soon. We are not ‘imploding’, ‘collapsing’, ‘teetering on the brink of collapse’. I would very much like to see valueable contributions by Indians on this blog rather than just engaing in stupid and useless rhetoric. I mean its just a suggestion, if anyone still feels necessary to prove himself an idiot than by all means go ahead, who can stop you.

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive
 

@The Pakistan Army are the defenders of the nation, and their capabilities need to be improved.
- Posted by Aamir Ali

-Lucky you who does not live in SWAT. Say the above to a SWATI with no Taliban around, and they will give you their piece of mind. Imagine you saying this on loud speaker in SWAT and you will be chased your way into Punjab.
Paki Army as “defenders of the nation”–Look at the history PArmy could never defend the nation. History speaks for itself. Aggressive fools they are but stupid big time losers at the same time.

India hates Pakistan, you say? So be it. Pakistan has earned it though hard work of brainwashed innocents and Pak foreign policy.
Each time a terrorist is produced inside Pakistan against India, anti-India hatred is created inside the minds of Kasab type terrorists by systematic dirty tricks of ISI/Pak Army/LeT-all in the name of Islam-many Pakistanis support this action of ISI since it is for national cause and the Kashmiris (my foot). When Kasab types are caught by India, each of you including LeT disown him—now he is not a true Muslim. There is fundamental problem—Islam and politics mix for causing trouble, not for gaining strength to advance the nation. Please clarify if there is any inaccuracy. Your silence will be taken as that you agree with me.

Right now, it is not India but the whole world that hates Pakistan.

We do not hate Pakistanis. We do not hate Islam. Pakistan changes its pro-terror policies, it will all fine. We have Muslim population as large as Pakistan inside India. I have many Muslim friends. So don’t teach Indians love for a religion and co-existence as a neighbor. Let it also be clear that Pakistanis have no clue about Muslims in India. They openly told Musharraf a month ago that Pakistan should leave Indian Muslims alone and do not play politics. Start appreciating the diversity in Islam, which you have not done so far, and you will be peaceful.

And below is your expression of love for India and Afghanistan:
“Pakistan is unfortunate to have Afghanistan and India as neighbors and has done right in countering them”.

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive
 

Sanjeev
With due respect, I think it is time Reuters start doing some proper moderating. The number of Indians contributing to this blog have risen, most of the comments are low quality and substance, again and again same old rants are repeated against Pakistan and its armed forces. It turns out to be insult for the fallen officers, men and their families. Please let us not do such humiliating things, the life of a soldier is the same be an indian or Pakistani. Could you please ensure that the quality of debate is improved on reuters? Thank you

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive
 

@On the article above, I believe its all hogwash. The Taliban moving back without fighting is not easily digestible. In my opinion the ISI/ Pak military had an agreement with taliban to move away from Buner for international communities’ consumption and promptly followed it with that speech of Gen. Kiyani’s. I will be convinced if PA gets SWAT back in its command. Even then it will be a long way march for normalcy in Pakistan but that will be a major trust building measure.
- Posted by Aman

-Aman: The reason could be the meeting on May 6-7 with Obama/Karzai/Zardari.

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive
 

Sanjeev:
Respectfully:
I gave a thought to my friend Umair’s message posted to you. I am taking the liberty of jumping in since I ferlt so. What he said works both ways. My opinion is that as long as the Reuters house rules (footnote in comment box) are obeyed it should be OK. But is it that those stay away-mostly Pakistanis–do not have logic to face the reasoning of Indian bloggers? What I have seen that non-Indian bloggers (US, Canada) share Indian bloggers views about Pakistan. Emerging situation is a global worry and no one in the world has better and more genuine reason than Indians (and Afghanistanis) who have suffered at the hand of Pakistan’s foreign policy. While Umair is ultra-sensitive to Indian bloggers’ comments on Pak Army, Umair should know that Indian Army Jawans and officers/paramilitary forces have laid down their lives for the country in unnecessary wars and terrorism started by Pakistan. Pakistani bloggers need to have better shock absorbers than they have for meaningful and sincere discussions. While Lahore attack by terrorists is a new worry for Pakistani Punjabis (their own making), I have witnessed the Pak-supported terrorism for 15yrs in Indian Punjab, resulting in thousands dead in a secular fashion. And of course Pak-supported Kashmir terrorism, even if we forget Mumbai type acts. The minimum a Pakistani blogger can do is to start appreciating all this. How many Pakistanis died due to India and how many Indians have died due to Pakistan? The answer needs no investigation but Pakistanis are so unreceptive and blind to their convenience; will not acknowledge that Pakistan has attacked India in all wars and never used the word “terrorist” for LeTs and expecting Indians to be respectful towards Pakistan. Who knows better than former Pakistani Air Chief Asghar Khan and respected political leader, who “squarely blamed Pakistan for the 1965 and 1971 wars and strongly opposed the war with India over the Bangladesh issue in 1971″. Currently, while Indians are dying because of Pakistan, and these Pakistani bloggers, who have the safety that they will not be dying because of India-supported terror so-far, cannot take such a small inconvenience of aggressive reasoning, commonly called by them as “bashing”.

Sanjeev, using Umair’ parlance, “Could you please ensure that a Pakistani blogger accepts that LeT and all other hyphenated organization, which are killing Indians and have killed in the past, are terrorist organizations?

Thank you!

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive
 

Aamir,

“These theories of martial race etc, is trash generated by Indian hatred of Pakistan”

- Pick any book on Pakistan written by Pakistanis themselves and you will get the reference of some silly theories. No Indian coined these phrases.

Posted by Nikhil | Report as abusive
 

The war between Pakistan and India is not confined to the soldiers. It goes on in every front – in sports, in media, in the hearts of the people. And it has gotten worse with time. In general, Pakistanis are living off a lot lies that have been repeated a thousand times over to them. To them now, they are absolute truths. They have no hard facts on hand when pressed. They go quiet and hide when references are given and asked to produce counter-references. Then they come out shouting “Inshallah!, Pakistan Zindabad!” and start their ignorant rally all over again. The reason more and more Indians are coming out to express their frustration is because of this cyclical emptiness that Pakistanis, not only in this forum, but also elsewhere exhibit. And they do not realize their double faced attitude. If a white man talks to them, they sound very reasonable, full of courtesy and even agree to their faults. If it comes from an Indian, their emotions shut off their eyes and they vehemently deny the same things that they agreed with the white man. Their low self esteem makes them compare themselves with India all the time and they have wasted all their energy all these years trying to out-do India by wrongful means. And their low self esteem wants others to acknowledge that India is also an evil nation. This is why Indians try hard to reason with them. So long as Pakistanis do not change their attitude towards Indians, we will keep reminding them. They have become very clever in playing victims while supporting the victimization of others. People are trying to be polite in general. But as far as us Indians are concerned, we will retaliate if we are not respected. If it hurts, let the Pakistanis look at themselves and be truthful.

 

Mauryan and Rajeev
If you state 100 times that Pakistan Army and ISI are a terrorist organization, that Pakistan is a terrorist sponsoring nation, does that become aggressive reasoning? Your friend, Global watcher, simply has nothing to state than some typical jingoistic statements, like Pakistan is epicenter of terrorism, blah blah blah. Most of the times old statements are repeated again and again. Dear friends, this is what I would call sraightforward stupidity, this is not debate, discussion or reasoning. This is an attempt on your part to prove yourselves idiots.
Now Mauryan, me or my nation Pakistan suffers absolutely no inferiority complex or low self esteem. Pakistan is, what it is, a leading muslim nation a nuclear power. We are part of muslim world, most Pakistanis will call themselves muslims first and than Pakistanis, our aspirations are different.
So, in short its about time you guys start some reasoning than just engaging in Pakistan bashing. Because six months back Global watcher started his rants on Reuters blog that Pakistan will implode, my question is, did Pakistan implode? Can you predict If Pakistan will implode in future? how soon? Absolute and utter nonsense. Now who can stop Global watcher of stating that ‘Pakistan is teetering on the verge of collapse’, I am merely suggesting not to indludge into stupidity and make yourself the laughing stock on the reuters blog.

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive
 

Umair writes: “me or my nation Pakistan suffers absolutely no inferiority complex or low self esteem. Pakistan is, what it is, a leading muslim nation a nuclear power. We are part of muslim world, most Pakistanis will call themselves muslims first and than Pakistanis, our aspirations are different.”

You mentioned to Keith about the low self esteem of Pakistanis and “Indians” not long ago. I told you not to club us with you.

You claimed that Pakistani military defeated India in the 1948, 1965, Kargil wars. I provided references to prove that the truth is otherwise and asked you to provide references to substantiate your claims. You never did.

You claimed that India has 7 embassies in Afghanistan, whose only function is to cause trouble to Pakistan. I asked for clear information and proof of this and you never provided anything to support your claims. Now Holbrooke has clearly mentioned that there are 7 staff members in the Indian embassy in Kandahar and has praised India’s efforts in help rebuilding Afghanistan.

You simply said,”Inshallah!, Pakistan Zindabad,” and slipped under the desk.

Then slowly you started starting from square one again.
I see total emptiness in your claims and that of your countrymen. Even your military personnel are lying their heads off to cover for their hurt feelings. Accept the truth where it should be and you will not see this much antagonism. But if you keep repeating lies to convert them into truths, we will prevent it.

Pakistan’s collapse may not happen in six months. But it is work in progress. One day you will learn this in a refugee camp.

 

Umair writes: “If you state 100 times that Pakistan Army and ISI are a terrorist organization, that Pakistan is a terrorist sponsoring nation, does that become aggressive reasoning?”

Where did we say that the ISI is a terrorist organization/ We said that there is a serious nexus between the ISI and militant organizations. And we don’t have to prove it. It has been mentioned by the Americans themselves. Pakistan’s support of terrorists is a known fact. And Military rules Pakistan. Can you connect the dots? All terrorists engaged in Kashmir, Chechnya, Central Asia, Bali, Somalia, New York, London, Madrid and so on have their roots in Pakistan. And it is now called as the “hot bed” of terrorism. Hillary has called your country as being in “mortal danger.” Do I need to say more? Or are you blind?

 

Umair claims: “We are part of muslim world, most Pakistanis will call themselves muslims first and than Pakistanis, our aspirations are different.””

You can classify yourselves any which way you want. The rest of the world sees you as a part of a radicalized Islamic world, sponsoring terrorists and fundamentalists with nukes and your aspirations are definitely not in building your nation. If that was wrong, then these 62 years wouldn’t have gone waste. You guys have gone weapon crazy, trying to buy the latest weapons in the market and brandish them like immature people who borrow money to buy Hummer vehicles and replace their tires with giant tires. It is a show off thing and it comes from low self esteem.

 

Umair – “Most of the times old statements are repeated again and again. Dear friends, this is what I would call sraightforward stupidity”

Stating facts, over & over is not stupidity. Denying them over & over and living in delusion, most certainly is!

Posted by Mortal | Report as abusive
 

Umair writes: “This is an attempt on your part to prove yourselves idiots.”

When dealing with idiots, we have to use a language that they understand. Hence we have to do what we do. Even that has not helped. Can you whack yourself because we can’t do it remotely? May be that will help. Also whack a few others near you so that they can see some sense.

 

Mauryan
“Pakistan’s collapse may not happen in six months. But it is work in progress. One day you will learn this in a refugee camp.”
Boy o boy, you guys are stubborn, look I was born in a free Pakistan and I would prefer to die in a free Pakistan. And let me tell you for every single secret plan in progress to harm Pakistan, the ISI runs 10 counter plans, gathring intel, analyzing options, looking at different scenarios and gurading Pakistan from side. So we are covered, dont worry about us.

What I stated was that India and Pakistan went nuclear for self esteem and prestige. Its not me who stated that, I have a full pdf report form an American think tank that said that. So shut up and dont misinterpret me.

Mauryan, do yourself a favor, just drop the idea of Pakistan’s collapse, because when you have a nation as big as 173 million and resilient and capable, you are dead sure it is hell bent to safeguard their country. Refugee camps, well I have full sympathy for those people in refugee camps, be they Palestinians or Bosnians. Its about time you do search on Pakistan’s role in 1967, 73 Arab-Israeli and 1995 Bosnian wars. Pakistan Army and Pakistan Air Force helped our brothers in the hour of need. And it is always expected from Pakistan, a leader of muslim world. As I said our aspirations are different, we helped refugees when it matterd to them, God forbid if there is difficult time upon us, you will see many friends come out in our support not giving us refuge, but fighting side by side with us and shed their blood for Pakistan.
Long Live Pakistan!

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive
 

Mauryan
You are like a dog, if someone just ignores you it is ok with you. As soon as a small piece of bone is thrown at you , off you go start barking and going after a person.

So here is waht I am gonna do, bark as much as you can, I will ignore as I have been doing. The level of self esteem you have is evident from the vulgar language you use.

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive
 

Umair writes: “What I stated was that India and Pakistan went nuclear for self esteem and prestige. Its not me who stated that, I have a full pdf report form an American think tank that said that. So shut up and dont misinterpret me.”

Provide the reference. Otherwise you are calling a bluff. We know why India went nuclear. It was not from low self esteem. We knew what we were up against. It was the time of cold war and the Chinese were shaking hands with the Americans.

Why Pakistan went nuclear is not unclear. India had nuclear weapons so somehow Pakistan had to have it. When the Prime Minister of a nation says, “Pakistan will have a nuclear bomb. Even if we have eat grass so be it,” it clearly shows the low self esteem. It is like a woman saying, my child may die of illness, but I got to have that necklace that the other woman has. That is comparing status and a clear symbol of low self esteem.

Now provide me with the reference of this “think tank.” I hope it is not like the other think tanks where your claims have disappeared into thin air. And even if that American think tank said whatever it said, it hardly matters to us. We know our needs and it is not due to low self esteem. So speak for yourself and your countrymen.

 

Umair gives up: “So here is waht I am gonna do, bark as much as you can, I will ignore as I have been doing. The level of self esteem you have is evident from the vulgar language you use.”

That is called defeat. One Pakistani down. More to go. We will take them one by one by the power of reason. We don’t need nukes to shake their heads. And reason will appear like barking to dogs. Sit in the corner as your master says.

 

Umair, your frustration, to an extent, is understandable. It must indeed be difficult for you, to see your country get trashed, humiliated & berated in global forums like these.

I’d like to make a couple of points about what your earlier comment. Firstly, What you call ‘fabricated silly jokes by Indians’ are actually ‘Hard & Substantiated FACTS’, which are pretty much universally accepted, except of course, by most Pakistanis.

Secondly, If you think that it’s just Indians who are saying these things about Pakistan, then you’re sadly mistaken. People all over the world, on any blog or discussion on Pakistan, are saying pretty much the same kinda things or even worse, about Pakistan & most of them are not Indian.

Most of the things that you Pakistanis say, are either unsubstantiated or completely fictional in nature. Yes, it must be good for you to say morale-boosting stuff like “We 170 million Pakistanis are United” & “Nothing can break our resolve” & “Our army is the best” etc etc but at the end of the day, it’s all just meaningless blabber devoid of any substance, whatsoever.

Posted by Mortal | Report as abusive
 

Umair rants: “Mauryan, do yourself a favor, just drop the idea of Pakistan’s collapse, because when you have a nation as big as 173 million and resilient and capable, you are dead sure it is hell bent to safeguard their country.”

I don’t care what happens to Pakistan. If it collapses, well it’s too bad. I am only going to worry about its repercussions towards my country. So long as your collapse or bandaged condition of your nation does not affect us, I do not care. You can keep your 173 million citizens and start in breeding. The hell I care! But I read news and I can discuss about world events just like anyone else. And people are talking about the collapse of Pakistan. Whether that happens or not is entirely on your hands. So you worry about it and we will watch the news and discuss.

 

Umair: ‘American think tank’ consisting of Pakistani Generals, Heads of ISI & Mullahs? Lmao….Now you’re making stuff up, man!

Posted by Mortal | Report as abusive
 

@Mauryan and Rajeev
If you state 100 times that Pakistan Army and ISI are a terrorist organization, that Pakistan is a terrorist sponsoring nation, does that become aggressive reasoning?
-by Umair

Umair: Here are the facts:
1. Pakistan attacked India and started wars (refrence is ex-chief Mr. Asghar Khan of PAF).

2. Pakistan supported/trained without which Sikh terrorism was not viable for 15yrs–If I am not wrong 21,000 lives lost. Pakistan is till giving shelter to top terrorists.

3. pakistan started the Kashmir terrorism and is supporting.

4. The random bomb blasts in India (no proofs to my knowledge for many) are by Pakistan trained militants.

5. Mumbai attack was by Pakistani(s) terrorist Kasab, from LeT, which is supported by Pakistan.

6. Pakistan Army and terrorist organization LeT have fought agaisnt India shoulder-to-shoulder.

7. I have heard comments “let us give uniforms to militants to fight against India” from at least 2 Pakistani bloggers.

…..so on and so forth.

Now what does this make Pakistan and ISI. I will leave it to the readers own analysis.

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive
 

@when you have a nation as big as 173 million and resilient and capable, you are dead sure it is hell bent to safeguard their country.
-posted by Umair

-Umair: Then how can you explain collapse of USSR, the superpower with international network of KGB agents. I am reasoning with the statement.

If you forgotten, India does not want Pakistan’s disintegration for India’s own stability.

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive
 

Just at the time of Zardari’s visit to the US,The Pak military has restarted its socalled operation which will finish as soon as the cheque gets encashed and the military elite laugh all their way to their banks in Switzerland!!
This statement is akin to a man saying a caged lion is no threat.Well it isnt cause its caged!!
The Pak army has no resolve to fight, they just want to have a merry time.
It is beyond doubt that Pakistan has supported militant activity in India whose repercussions we are dealing since the Frankestein has come back.
I believe now it should be end game.We should wipe off this militant threat once and for all and give international guarantees that we wont indulge in militancy in other countries.This will help us get international help and fixing the situation.Lets admit it and cure the problem rather than not doing anything till the doctor says you have one day to live?

Posted by Suleman Maniya,Gotdeborg,Sweden | Report as abusive
 

I SERIOUSLY DONT THINK WE NEED HISTORY LESSONS OR INSIGHT LECTURES FROM INDIANS TO FIGURE OUT WHAT OUR MILITARY AND INTELLIGENCY IS DOING AND THE ROLE INDIA IN COLLABORATION WITH OTHER COUNTRIES IS DOING TO DESTABILIZE PAKISTAN.India has always been involved in playing side games in pakistan and it wouldnt be surprising to know that indian consulates in afghanistan and providing aid to the taleban.
Instead of ranting about pakistanis being raised in the dark and making fabricated lame stories about pakistanis not aware of the truth and living on a non-existant and false ideology indians would be better of trying to focus on their own country,
India is nothing to be jealous off.All it has is economic growth for the rich people and more poverty for the poor people.Its military or intelligence is noting to be afraid of since it ranks no where near the developed countries and was unable to handle 8 gunmen in mumbai.The hatred indians have against pakistan can be realized from the fact that the indian media blames everything that happens in their country on pakistan.Besides the fact that india has more violent hindu extremists and criminal organizations than pakistan has talibans.
Pakistanis do not need advice from indians on what to do and what not.Indians have a history of making lame stories like all of the above mentioned comments by bringing in one sided stories and facts in whose occurence they also played major conspiracy roles..

Posted by Pakistani | Report as abusive
 

Pakistani:
@I SERIOUSLY DONT THINK WE NEED HISTORY LESSONS OR INSIGHT LECTURES FROM INDIANS TO FIGURE OUT WHAT OUR MILITARY AND INTELLIGENCY IS DOING AND THE ROLE INDIA IN COLLABORATION WITH OTHER COUNTRIES IS DOING TO DESTABILIZE PAKISTAN.
- Posted by Pakistani

Pakistani: If you are alergic to Indian medicine, take it from WISE Pakistanis.

Click to listen to the wise words of the Pakistan ex-Air Marshal Asghar Khan:
http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/dawn -content-library/dawn/the-newspaper/colu mnists/16-ardeshir-cowasjee-wise-words-f rom-an-old-warrior-hs-04

Go to Dawn and read Kamran Shafi etc.

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive
 
 

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