From unemployed teachers to ghost schools in Pakistan

April 28, 2009

Often it’s the small details that bring alive the tragedy of a nation. I recommend reading this story on IRIN about how newly qualified school-teachers are unable to take up jobs in Pakistan’s Swat valley because the government is not functioning well enough to appoint them to vacant posts. 

It quotes a 25-year-old as saying that his impoverished family had worked hard to send him to school and on to teacher-training. “We have been waiting for two years to be appointed. But this is being delayed. We are without jobs. We cannot support our families. The government has failed to help us at all,” he said. It also quotes an education department official in Swat as saying that posts were lying empty in schools as many teachers had fled the Swat valley, where the government concluded a peace deal with Taliban militants earlier this year. “But we can make no new appointments as we have no instructions from the government, plus the militants control everything anyway.”

The story is not as eye-catching as the burning of girls’ schools. But the notion of a poor family which must have scrimped and saved to send a son to teacher-training only to discover that he could not get a job is still heart-breaking, if only because its very ordinariness makes it easier to relate to.

Meanwhile, on the subject of education in Pakistan, Pakistani blogger Teeth Maestro has been rounding up articles about thousands of “ghost schools” – which get government funding without actually existing – in Sindh province.

“The ghost schools phenomenon is probably the biggest crime to the future generations of Pakistan,” he writes. “Millions get sanctioned on a yearly basis for the construction and the maintenance of these educational centres and in reality they never exist and are merely paper based ghost schools with a fully employed staff and a regular budget extracting millions from the provincial budget whilst our children continue to remain uneducated.”

According to this UNDP list reproduced on Wikipedia, Pakistan’s literacy rate of 49.9 percent put it in 160th place on world league tables – only just above Nepal and Bangladesh.  Government figures for the Federally Administered Tribal Areas give the literacy rate as far lower there – at 29.5 percent for men and just three percent for women.

In the meantime, as Fatima Bhutto, the estranged niece of the late Benazir Bhutto, complained in this article, the Taliban are filling the gap – at least for boys - by setting up madrasas and educating local children for free.

Donor countries are preparing to pour aid into Pakistan, in part to boost education. Given the many problems bedevilling Pakistan’s education system, one assumes that some people out there have a master plan on how to deal with them.  Or do they?

(Reuters photos at the Jamia Binoria Al-Alamia school in Karachi where boys and girls are educated, fed and housed/Athar Hussain)

Comments

The government of Pakistan needs to provide security and uplift the literacy rate of entire country including FATA areas. This is the only ticket to larger prosperity, I doubt if someone has a thorough comprehensive plan to deal with the educational challenges in pakistan.

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive
 

A truly sad situation. Thanks for posting this article Myra. The links were interesting and informative. What’s particularly disturbing is that Pakistan has made so little headway outside the FATA and the NWFP. In those two areas we can understand the security concerns (maybe in parts of Balochistan as well). But what explanation is there for the rest of Pakistan?

I wish that a day comes where Pakistanis compete on stats like literacy, HDI, life expectancy, infant mortality, etc with their neighbours instead of bragging about nuclear weapons. Sadly, if there ever was proof that Pakistanis have eaten grass to reach the state they are in today, you have it here.

Posted by Keith | Report as abusive
 

Though Pakistanis and Indians indulge in mud slinging, my belief is that Pakistan has excellent talent in many arenas – music, sports to mention some. They have the spirit that takes them to the height. Pakistan produced one of the best cricketers and hockey players in the world, despite not having much infrastructure and facilities. They have hard working people too. What they lack are opportunities. If they had shown the same frenzy in keeping up with India on the nukes, towards education, agriculture, democracy etc, I can bet Pakistan would have been one of the most advanced nations in the world. And they would have kept their power with responsibility. Cancer like Taliban wouldn’t have arisen. Now they are threatening others with nukes just to protect themselves. It is a pathetic condition to be in.

If they had been lucky with their leaders, Karachi could have been a Dubai. They had the US and the Western powers on their side all these years and spent all their efforts in war mongering and weapons upgrading. They made the wrong choice. They could have become like South Korea or Taiwan if they had been lucky with their leaders. It is so unfortunate that they squandered it all away. If some mad Pakistanis say that their nation was always under threat and that they had to fight the Soviets, they are wrong. So is South Korea where the US has a military staged. So it Taiwan which has to worry about Communist China. Both countries have faced much worse danger than Pakistan for almost the same duration of time. Americans would have lavished whatever Pakistan desired on non-military aid during the 50s, 60s, 70s and all the way up to now if Pakistan had sought such help. Pakistan could have been the envy of the region.

India tried being non-aligned which became a Soviet proxy alliance and was mired in socialistic quagmire for a long time. A touch of golden wand by the US changed all that in 1991. It was ready to take the next leap and the world respects its efforts to be a successful nation.

The important thing for Pakistan to do is to eliminate terrorism from its belly, give up its antagonism with India, make a pact on Kashmir accepting LoC the border, cut down the military in size, allow the Americans to do their job in Afghanistan and work towards progress. It is still not too late. India will surely reciprocate any positive gesture. It is their choice.

 

Keith
” Sadly, if there ever was proof that Pakistanis have eaten grass to reach the state they are in today, you have it here.”

Yes, after the defeat of 1971 and after having 90,000 POWs and travelling to Simla in 1972. I think Bhutto stated the right thing. I was born a decade after the 1971 tragedy, I sometimes look back at the history of our country and see those people as real heroes who got down to rebuild the demorlized nation during the initial years after 1971. Outsiders can argue Pakistan messed up itself in 1971 and that India cant be blamed. I would still say much of the expensive arms race was saprked between India and Pakistan by India. Had Pakistan not felt threatened there was no need to eat ‘grass’ to build the bomb, the region would have been diverting its resources on social sector rather than defense.

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive
 

Umair,

Fair enough. Pakistan felt threatened then. But what’s the need today for Pakistan to spend so much on defence? You have nukes to deter the Indians. Pakistan spends over 3.5% of GDP on defence (and that’s in the formal sector not counting the various corrupt practices, backroom dealings and businesses). What’s the need for it when you have nukes that will deter the Indians (who spend only 2% of GDP on defence)?

Defence expenditure has hit 25% of the federal budget. Today this is a significant factor in the slow development of Pakistan….money is being siphoned off for an Army that is not configured for the defence needs of Pakistan (counter-insurgency within), from social programs that would mitigate the threat from insurgents.

The ghost schools story is truly representative of all of Pakistan’s various failings in one story. Greed, corruption, poor education, terrible administration, no accountability, etc.. If this keeps up, what will be the future of Pakistan?

Posted by Keith | Report as abusive
 

Mauryan
Do you understand now the hatred we have here in Pakistan for India. I was very lucky to have begun my initial schooling overseas till primary, only my high school and college was in Pakistan. When I compare myself to people in Pakistan, I find myself in advantageous position because my initial schooling was abroad.
Do you understand how we started from scratch in 1947? how we had to fight wars with a bigger India till 1971 when we suffered a national tragedy? This is where the hatred comes from, only if you Indians could also accept some of the blame on you. But your country’s leaders thought necessary to harm Pakistan in one way or another. Or probably its me hell bent on blaming all Pakistan’s problems including illetracy on India?

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive
 

Umair writes: “Had Pakistan not felt threatened there was no need to eat ‘grass’ to build the bomb, the region would have been diverting its resources on social sector rather than defense.”

India went nuclear to match up with China, which is appropriate in many ways. India never took to nuclear arms to show off or because of low self esteem. After it got the nuclear deterrent capability, it did not mess with China and worked towards its progress. Twenty years later China and India met each other on the economic front, competing in a healthy way, attracting businesses and admiring each other. I have no right to comment on Pakistan’s nuclear ambitions. But after becoming a nuclear power, Pakistan chose the wrong path of engaging proxy war and adding religious radicalism to increase its effect. These things cost big money and an economically strong India simply absorbed it and has moved on. Pakistan fell far behind because of its negative engagement. You can never expect India to be friendly and trustworthy while encouraging cross border terrorism and causing collateral damage in the name of wrong goals. Kashmir can never be wrested this way. At least I hope you guys realize this. There is not much option left in resolving Kashmir except to accept the LoC as the border and moving on with life. Proxy war will drain your country of whatever little resources it can generate. Now you have an internal war with the Taliban which will also suck up all the international aid being given. It is time you guys thought wisely and gave up your antagonism towards India.

 

Keith
“The ghost schools story is truly representative of all of Pakistan’s various failings in one story. Greed, corruption, poor education, terrible administration, no accountability, etc.. If this keeps up, what will be the future of Pakistan?”

The US always supported dictators and civilian democracy couldnt take root in Pakistan. US aid was misused in many cases, but i dont want to sound to be putting all blames on outsiders. YES, most of our problems are self inflicted. Our company CIO who is a Pakistani American was visiting us from US recently, he invited us for dinner and after that we were having an off the record chat. He put forward a question to us, that who is responsible for the direction in which Pakistan is going? and we all agreed that no one is to blame expect we Pakistanis ourselves, are responsible for the mess. There is the realization, there is a sense, but give us the time. Pakistan is a developing nation and you must also keep this in consideration. However, I agree we have no excuse for mediocrity and incompetence and dishonesty. Infact, the founder of Pakistan Mr. Jinnah had these three rules Unity, Faith and Discipline. I would say if we would follow the last rule(Discipline) there would be no corruption, misadministration, lack of accountability.

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive
 

The government of Pakistan needs to provide security and uplift the literacy rate of entire country including FATA areas. This is the only ticket to larger prosperity, I doubt if someone has a thorough comprehensive plan to deal with the educational challenges in pakistan.
- Posted by Umair

What did this world get when they spend already scarce money on YOUR EDUCATION. All we could get is an educated idiot who did not learn more than “WE HAVE NUKES” and tries to drag India as a cause of your each and every problem.

You had claimed several times that you are educated and literate but does you education made you rational ?

Pakistanis need awareness and enough intelligence to tell black from white. Spending Money blindly is not going to change anything.

Posted by punjabiyaar | Report as abusive
 

Punjabiyar
When I stated ‘I doubt if someone has a thorough comprehensive plan to deal with the educational challenges in Pakistan’, I meant the leadership in Pakistan. And what do you mean that ‘what did this world get..’ Dont assume for a moment India to be a part of civilized world. We all know poverty and illiteracy is even worse in India.
As for ‘WE HAVE NUKES’, i have always talked back to irrational Indians suggesting ‘we will decimate and smash Pakistan’ to remind them about the ‘nukes’.
And I feel India is a criminal here, because it is India because of which Pakistan was dragged into an arms race.

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive
 

FYI:
“what did this world get..”

You can count India in this world or not. It does not matter in this context. Its again a proof that you always try to hit India and Indians no matter if subject relates or not.

IMF / Americans / FoP and other donors can give you money for “deal with the educational challenges in Pakistan” but what they get is a computer literate sophisticated terrorist who can disguise as an engineer and can make precise bombs to kill innocents.

If this world had not spend money on your Education they would have been dealing with an idiot who will say Allah-hu-Akber 5 times (and loudly) so that he can be spotted right before he tries to blow up himself.

You know who is easier to deal with ??

Education is not doing any good to your people as long as you fill hatred towards India and West, in their minds.

You wrote-”And I feel India is a criminal here, because it is India because of which Pakistan was dragged into an arms race”

You can “feel” whatever you want to and wherever you want to, but truth is you have a unnecessary morbid fear of India. India had never attacked you and will never attack you as long as you don’t try to harm her. Indian Nukes were for China, you don’t even try to reason this fact that Indians had already dismembered you in 1971, why will they nuke a country which can be disintegrated in conventional war.

You have a self esteem issue which made you eat grass for a considerable time. Take my word it will make you eat $hit one day.

Posted by punjabiyaar | Report as abusive
 

Since Umair has claimed his literary credentials a few times on this blog, I would say that he’s a perfect case reference on why education alone can’t change an individual. Education in a radically charged up & hateful environment will only create ‘educated bigots’ instead of uneducated ones.
What good is education, when it does not have the strength to liberate a person from the shackles of vindictiveness & the hateful ideology which is etched into an innocent mind, day after day? Such a person, no matter how educated, will never be able to think rationally.
If a real change has to be brought about in Pakistan, a complete overhaul would be needed to undo the damage done by decades of radicalization & constant preaching of a hateful ideology. Such a drastic transformation & generational change would require a bold leadership & decades of hard work. Unfortunately, I don’t think that Pakistan has the time or the sincere leadership, required to bring about that change.

Posted by Mortal | Report as abusive
 

Umair wrote: Dont assume for a moment India to be a part of civilized world. We all know poverty and illiteracy is even worse in India.

Hmm… why do pakistanis turn any pakistan related conversation to India bashing?? Are Pakistani still not able to overcome their defeat in 1971?? If they didnt want to be defeated why surrender at all??

I wonder how much hatred is taught about HINDU India in pakistan’s superior educational system.
I guess all they are thought is how 1 billion devil/idol worshipping Indian soldiers raping 10000000000 MUSLIM women and having their babies for dinner….not to mention castism, racism that has existed in India since time immemorial…. while Pakistan which is a beacon for muslim world with its nuclear bomb is a true democracy providing equal rights to every sector of society, is and has always been superior to HINDU India which run by evil banias who will sell their mothers for money.

Actually I believe, as somebody once said… World would be a better place if they deal with Pakistan and Pakistanis in the realm of psychiatry not diplomacy.

Posted by nikhil | Report as abusive
 

Umair, time & again, you’ve said that the 1971 war was a humiliating & devastating blow for Pakistanis & how that forced Pakistan to get into an arms race with India. Since you’ve squarely blamed the creation of Bangladesh on India, many times, I’ll ask you again, what I & many have asked before:
Do you & your country take any responsibility for the dismemberment of Pakistan?
Do you think that the massacre of 3 million bengalis & countless rapes of bengali women by the Pakistani army had nothing to do with the 1971 war?
Do you think that the fact that, although Mujibur Rehman’s Awami league had enough seats to form a Govt. in the center, he wasn’t allowed to do so by Bhutto & your army, had nothing to do with the revolt & creation of Bangladesh?
Do you or your country take any responsibility for the proxy wars, which have been fought in India for decades & in which thousands of Indian civilians have been killed?
Do you or your country take any responsibility for, welcoming with open arms & abetting, terrorist like Dawood Ibrahim & Maulana Azhar who have committed mass murders in India?

Everyone on this blog has tried to explain to you that India’s arms race always was & is with China & not Pakistan & yet you continue to repeatedly harp on the moronic Indo-centric rhetoric & bring India into every argument of yours.
As I’ve said before, it doesn’t matter what you Pakistanis think about India. You may think about it as an impoverished, illiterate & belligerent country, if it makes you guys sleep better at night. The reality of today is that the world has accepted India’s potential & is looking up to it, whereas Pakistan is one baby step away from being formally branded by the world as a ‘Failed Terrorist State’. If you guys still don’t wanna wake up & continue on your path of self-destruction, you’re free to do so.

Posted by Mortal | Report as abusive
 

MY DEAR INDIAN FRIENDS
You can call me whatever you may like, you are free to state whatever, probably India is going to be the next super power, but LET ME MAKE ONE THING ABSOLUTELY CLEAR:
There will be no peace in South Asia if there is no peace between India and Pakistan, India will never be able to achieve its rightful place in the world, unless the relations between India and Pakistan are normalize. India and Pakistan are two heck of countries not in good terms with each other, it will benefit India more if it were to have normal relations with Pakistan.
But the reaction here is, forget about Kashmir, LoC is now the border. Accept your fate, we are an emerging power and world recognizes us now, we will diplomatically isolate you and the world will declare you a ‘rogue terrorist state’ bla bla bla
Remember one thing, India has to go a long way to prove itself to the world. Your aspirations can only be fulfilled if you come out of petiness, have a heart to address and resolve core issues between the two countries. If you think you could treat Pakistan with just another headache and brush it aside, than remember no great power in the world has ever risen to any level that is bogged down in disputes with neighbouring states.

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive
 

Punjabiyaar:
“Education is not doing any good to your people as long as you fill hatred towards India and West, in their minds.”

Oh really, probably the UK did a big blunder to issue 100 student visas every single day last year to 42000 Pakistani students to go study in UK. If I were to collect statistics I would tell you how many Pakistani student are doing their higher studies in USA, Canada, UK, Sweden and Germany. And I can tell you the number will be huge. In most cases, visas are issued after interview, the foreign universities grant admission based on educational credentials, you have to sit in international tests like TOEFL, IELTS, GMAT, GRE, SAT, etc. So I dismiss there is hatred towards India and the west, infact you could compare Pakistanis and Indians in the UK alone and find out Pakistanis are more inclined to the western culture. You explain me how does such a large number of Pakistanis are studying in western universities?

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive
 

http://www.educationexhibitions.com.pk/D ates%20&%20Venues.htm

19th Pakistan International Education Exhibition 2009
VENUE: PEARL CONTINENTAL RAWALPINDI, PAKISTAN
DATE: 29, 30 APRIL
PARTICIPANTS
Anglia Ruskin University
Aspire Educational Consultants
Bedfordshire University
Buckingham City University
Buckinghamshire New University
CECOS College UK
Dadabhouy University
Domino English Learning Centre
Falcon Education & Consultancy Services
Frederick University Cyprus
Greeno Foreign Study Consultant (Email: greenoadvisor@gmail.com 03005024507)
HR Consultants
HS Consultants
Imperial College of Business Studies
Indus Pak Advisors
Infozee Study Abroad
Institute of Cost and Management Accountants of Pakistan
International Islamic University Islamabad (Tentative)
Leeds Metropolitan University
Limkokwing University of Creative Technology Malaysia
Malvern House College London
Manchester Metropolitan University
New Zealand Trade & Enterprise
North City School of Arts
PAF-KIET (Tentative)
Paramount College of Technology Malaysia
Park Lane College Leeds
Queens University Belfast
Softnotion Consultant
Sunderland University
United States Educational Foundation in Pakistan
Universal Consultants
University of East London
University of Staffordshire
University of Teesside
Visado De Global
Waterford Institute of Technology
Webxzone Solutions
World Education Services
British Council
International Scholarship Council
International Jobs Placement Bureau
Student Loan Board
Pioneer Career Development Committee
Immigration Consultants etc
Skills Internationals etc

Pakistan has strong educational and cultural links with the world, its only a handful of stupid Indians that think view Pakistan with terminal hatred. There could easily have been Indra Gandhi university in the list above or some Chartered Accountancy Institute from India. Pakistanis would have been studying in India and vice-versa. Infact I know students from Iqra University in Islamabad recently visited India. This is where I say the relationship between India and Pakistan is not normal, that is why there are no cultural and educational links between the twou countries.

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive
 

Umair:
I hope you realize that we started arming ourselves after getting beaten in the 1962 India-China.Pakistan has a few misconceptions about India which you must clarify.

1.Indians want to absorb Pakistan into the Indian union.

India has no intention of assimilating 150mn + Muslims with 45% literacy rate out of which 70% is madrassa.Period!Its demographic dister.(I know its insulting but its the truth)

2.India wants a unstable Pakistan.

Again frankly Pakistan ceased to be a conventional threat after 1971.The pak army also realized that ths the holy war nonsense in Kashmir.The Indian activities in Baloch etc is a reaction to your force sending afghan/mujahideen into Indian territory.The message which we wanna send the pak establishment is that we too can fan subversive elements remember Mukhti Bahini?exactly.

3.Pakistan is India’s equal.

Dear friend a $1.27 trillion economy with $250bn reserves not dependant on outside aid is not your equal its like saying Afghanistan is Pakistan’s equal.This equality ‘hum kissi se kam nahi’ attitude is what is ruining you.One large Indian company like TATA has revenue of $80billion twice your entire industrial output.

4.India is out to ruin Pakistan.

Only beacuse you are out to do the same in India,besides we don’t know anything about ruining countries your the experts :)

Posted by Shantanu Chatterjee | Report as abusive
 

If the rich are ripping off the poor and stealing the moneys appropriated for schools, then this must be pretty normal in Pakistan by now. I don’t see how they can get people to stop stealing or how they can create oversight. (unless the schools were private and the owners insisted on this). I guess they’ll just keep on stealing, but I don’t think the country is going to collapse. They will listen to the Americans and fix some things and grow resentful, I think. So America will have a new generation of resentful Pakistanis on its hands. (oh, well). I just wish that Pakistanis can some day express their real feelings of frustration with each other. That may be the way out (you know- liberalism).

Posted by N-NW | Report as abusive
 

“Oh really, probably the UK did a big blunder to issue 100 student visas every single day last year to 42000 Pakistani students to go study in UK”

-Umair Posted

Out of that 100, 12 were found with terrorist links and about to deported from UK.

It will be interesting to see how other countries react to it.

Posted by punjabiyaar | Report as abusive
 

“Out of that 100, 12 were found with terrorist links and about to deported from UK.”- Posted by Punjabiyar

Prime Minister Gordon Brown was in Islamabad day before yesterday and Pakistani Prime minister asked him in the news conference to let the Pakistani students continue their studies. FYI, the arrested students have been released from custody and no charges could have been laid against them. Its clear the UK had messed up on this.

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive
 

FYI, the arrested students have been released from custody and no charges could have been laid against them. Its clear the UK had messed up on this.
-Posted by Umair.

So its the time to look into yourself and ask the million dollar question. Why Pakis are believed to be terrorists and even students are not spared.

Is it a serious reputation issue or something else. Now please don’t say “We have Nukes”

Posted by punjabiyaar | Report as abusive
 

Why Pakis are believed to be terrorists and even students are not spared.- Posted by Punjabiyar

We live in an unjust world, poor Palestinians face state sponsored Israeli terrorism, white phosphorus is used against them in mini wars every year but still no one brings the Israeli Army chief to the international criminal court to indict him for war crimes.
Whereas, Pakistan is a different case, and YES WE HAVE NUKES. I dont mind if pakistanis are believed to be terrorists, but if you radicalize more people, I will be very worried if Pakistanis would really become terrorists. And I can tell you it will turn very ugly then.
So next time when you state something, just think before what you state. As for the UK Home office, Pakistani ambassador in London Wajid Shamsul Hassan already took them to task on this fiasco even before the release of the students.

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive
 

@I would still say much of the expensive arms race was saprked between India and Pakistan by India. Had Pakistan not felt threatened there was no need to eat ‘grass’ to build the bomb, the region would have been diverting its resources on social sector rather than defense.
- Posted by Umair

Umair:
Say thanks to China, not India.
If you do not think that you know better than Pakistan ex-Air Marshal Asghar Khan, enlighten your self with his wise words.

http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/dawn -content-library/dawn/the-newspaper/colu mnists/16-ardeshir-cowasjee-wise-words-f rom-an-old-warrior-hs-04

“”"”"Until recently when the so-called Taliban became a problem, our defence expenditure was meant only to meet a threat from India. THE FACT IS THAT IN THE LAST 60 YEARS OF OUR EXISTENCE, INDIA HAS NOT STARTED HOSTILITIES AGAINST PAKISTAN UNLESS PROVOKED TO DO SO, OR UNTIL WE CREATED CONDITIONS, AS WE DID IN 1971 IN EAST PAKISTAN, FOR INDIA TO INTERFERE MILITARILY….

‘PAKISTAN’S NUCLEAR CAPABILITY, BY OUR OWN ADMISSION, IS ‘INDIA-SPECIFIC’. INDIA CAN JUSTIFY ITS NUCLEAR CAPABILITY FOR DIFFERENT REASONS. IT HAS EXPERIENCED HOSTILITIES WITH CHINA, and is aspiring to be one of the permanent members of the Security Council, for which it feels that being a nuclear power would be a qualification. Its size, population, location and resources should, it could argue, entitle it to be a permanent member of the Security Council. Moreover, its relations with the United States and the latter’s desire to balance China’s influence and power in Asia is likely to assure for it the support of the United States and the western world….

‘IF WE DID NOT HAVE NUCLEAR WEAPONS, DECLARED OURSELVES TO BE A NON-NUCLEAR STATE, AND OPENED OURSELVES TO INTERNATIONAL INSPECTION, THERE WOULD BE NO POSSIBILITY OF INDIA OR ANY OTHER COUNTRY USING NUCLEAR WEAPONS AGAINST US…. [W]e should therefore prepare only for a conventional war. WISDOM DEMANDS THAT WE STOP PLANNING FOR A NUCLEAR WAR WHICH, UNLESS WE START ONE, WE WILL NOT HAVE TO FIGHT. IT IS BOTH UNWISE AND UNNECESSARY TO PREPARE FOR THE ‘WRONG WAR’ WHICH COULD DESTROY US EVEN WITHOUT FIGHTING ONE.”"”"”"

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive
 

Umair:
We are back talking about the history. I asked you once the following question and your answer was something like let us forget history.

I repeat again: Who was responsible for 1965, 1971, Kargil wars?

This is an answer that is very clear and your countrymen accept that Pakistan was the reason for Indo-Pak wars.

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive
 

Umair, If you think that western countries are still welcoming Pakistanis with open arms, you are gravely mistaken. As per the US Dept. of Justice, more than 40% of the Pakistani population of app.400,000, has been deported since 9/11. App.45,000 to 50,000 have been deported from New York alone. The FBI has set up a special task force all over the country, who in tandem with the local police, keep a close watch on the activities of the Pakistani community. I’m sure that other western & Pacific countries have also drastically cut back on visa issuance to Pakistanis. UK has had a flawed system, whereby bogus universities were able to enroll foreign students & many Pakistanis have taken advantage of that system but you can be rest assured, that will also stop in the future.

I’m not saying that all who were deported were involved in terror related activities but it’s time for Pakistanis to do some self introspection, as to why is your reputation around the world, sullied to such an extent. I’m sure, a vast majority who have been deported or who don’t get visas, have nothing to do with terrorism but those poor people have to pay the price for the wrong-doings of their countrymen. It’s time for you Pakistanis to think about your reputation, as a nation.

FYI, the 10 Pakistani students haven’t been released free. They are currently in detention & are awaiting deportation.

Posted by Mortal | Report as abusive
 

Umair – “So I dismiss there is hatred towards India and the west, infact you could compare Pakistanis and Indians in the UK alone and find out Pakistanis are more inclined to the western culture”

Many studies in the UK have revealed that 2nd & 3rd generation Pakistanis in the UK, are in fact even more radical than first generation Pakistani immigrants. Many of those, although born & bred in the UK, don’t consider themselves as British & are quite vocal about their hate for UK. They refuse to assimilate in main stream British culture & live in ghettos which inhibit Pakistani communities. Most of the guys who conducted the 7/7 London bombings were of Pakistani origin.

Posted by Mortal | Report as abusive
 

Umair says:

“Palestinians face state sponsored Israeli terrorism,”

If you plead so much with the Palestinians, surely you should also plead with the Pakistani state sponsored terror against India.

Quit your Islamic brotherhood double standard, it is tiring us.

The way Israel was formed from Palestine, the same way Pakistan was formed from India. Poor double standard Umair, does not have the brains to understand basic fairness.

By bashing Israel, you are bashing Pakistan. The way you tell us to deal with Pakistan and it is there to stay, you should deal with Israel, it is there to stay, deal with it. Your Palestinian breatheren are untrustworthy partners in peace and can’t even agree with each and have an incoherent and corrupt government, it sounds a lot like how Pakistan is run.

Posted by Global Watcher | Report as abusive
 

Umair hurls Islamic Double standard vomit once more:

\”We live in an unjust world, poor Palestinians face state sponsored Israeli terrorism, \”

With all due respect, thanks for the double standard once more.

Israel was formed from Palestine, the way Pakistan was formed from India. If you sympathize with Palestians, then you are sympthazing with Indians, how they have had to put up with state sponsored terrorism, ie 2002, Kargil, 1971, Mumbai and many others.

Just remember, the way you use it, your mental delusion of \”ummah\” is for political purposes only, using religion in a very dirty way, it is fictitious and does not exist.

You people would butcher each other in a second over any religious or political disagreements, ie 500,000 Bengali Muslims genocided by Pakistani Army.

With all due respect, go and Fxxk your dumb axx Religiously entitled Double standard(the one formulated in your mind), we are sick of hearing you cry wolf all the time.

Don’t feed us crap about you feeling sorry for the Palestinians, cause you truly don’t, you just hate the Jews a million times more, because you have been taught to hate them from your madrasa. On that basis you claim to feel sorry for the Palestinians, who are not saints themselves either.

Just remember, if you bash Israel’s statehood, you are equally bashing Pakistani statehood.

Once again, thanks for only always pointing out a very one-sided plight of muslims, but never the plight of the other religions, or hindus, and their pain, what they have had to put up with for hundreds of years.

Enjoy your sick mental double standard, it shines though in every posting you make. You do not recognize non-muslims as equal human beings by any standard or context.

Posted by Global Watcher | Report as abusive
 

There are a few truths that people should know to understand the situation in South Asia:

1. There is no “moderate Taliban.”

2. There is no such thing as “Stable Pakistan”

3. There is no “Sensible Pakistani”

4. There is no such thing as “Muslims are for peace”

5. There is no such thing as “Trustworthy Pakistan”

Once this is clearly known, one will know how to deal with their logic and myths that they propagate. They have only limited beliefs that they keep repeating.

1. India is evil

2. Hindus are evil

3. India’s only purpose is to destabilize Pakistan

4. India is poor and worthless, way below Pakistan.

5. Pakistan is a land of milk and honey

6. Pakistan’s nukes will solve all their problems on illiteracy, health, agriculture, power and everything else. If India can do it with their nukes, Pakistan can do it better.

They cycle this repeatedly after every set of arguments. Any topic gets the same response. But they do not realize that their beliefs are the root cause of their current state. It will only get worse if they persist with it.

 

Umair Wrote:
“We live in an unjust world, poor Palestinians face state sponsored Israeli terrorism”

What about Tibetans, China has occupied their lands and thrown Dalai lama out of his country.

Why do Pakistan support China on Tibet issue. OH YES I FORGET TIBETANS ARE NOT MUSLIMS.

You double standard hypocrites.

Posted by punjabiyaar | Report as abusive
 

Punjabiyaar, Mauryan

How dare inhuman monkeys like you dare to even think that you are human beings. Jeez. Pakistan has existed from the Dawn of time, for almost 7000 years.

Please note the sarcasm and humour, in case you have to do a double take.

Posted by Global Watcher | Report as abusive
 

The discussion has gone way off topic (about education in Pakistan) so I’m going to close comments on this particular post.

Many comments are also getting abusive – I haven’t got time to got through them all and delete the most abusive ones. But maybe some posters could re-read them and think about the impression it gives to the outside world.

When every subject under discussion, including education, deteriorates into a slanging match between Indians and Pakistanis, it tends to convince outsiders that all the problems in the region come down to India and Pakistan. That does not do either country justice.

Most of you know the situation is far more complex than that. It would help in future posts if comments can capture the complexities, rather than descend into insults.

Myra

Posted by Myra MacDonald | Report as abusive
 
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