Pakistan: the next two weeks critical?

April 30, 2009

The Pakistan Army is fighting to regain control of the Buner valley to stop a Taliban advance deeper into the heartland, a battle that could determine the course of action the United States adopts in the near future.

Two weeks is what U.S. Central Command chief General David Petraeus is giving the Pakistani establishment to destroy the Taliban in Buner, some 60 miles from Islamabad, and begin to reverse the tide in the rest of the northwest region, according to Fox News.

It quoted Petraeus as saying that the Pakistanis had “run out of excuses” and were finally serious about combating the threat from the Taliban and al Qaeda. But because of a history of offensives that were not carried to their conclusion and even ended up in a reversal of positions, the U.S.military had suspended judgment. It would wait to see concrete action by the government to finish off the Taliban who remained in control of parts of Buner.

U.S. President Barack Obama was a bit more positive, although he made clear at his news conference in Washington that he remained “gravely concerned” about Pakistan.

Obama said the Pakistani military had begun to realise the biggest threat to the country’s stability came from militants operating within, not old rival India. “On the military side, you’re starting to see some recognition just in the last few days that the obsession with India as the mortal threat to Pakistan has been misguided, and that their biggest threat right now comes internally,” Obama told a news conference in Washington.

Has there been a shift? If it has, it could certainly be of far-reaching consequence. The New York Times reported earlier this week that Pakistan had moved 6,000 troops from the eastern border with India to fight militants on its western flank along the border with Afghanistan.  These were troops that had been deployed in the east after tensions rose following the attacks in Mumbai in November which New Delhi blamed on Pakistani-based guerrillas.

Moving six thousand troops from an army of hundreds of thousands is hardly a tectonic shift in posture that remains India-focused, but at least it is a start, said  Fareed Zakaria on CNN.

And these are not just voices from abroad, which are clearly beginning to border on the hystrerical. Pakistan’s Dawn says the army shouldn’t stop at Buner, or Lower Dir, another area that it won back last weekend. It must go into the Swat region which it said was the “epicentre of militancy” and where the militants have shown little willingness to stick to a peace deal even after the administration agreed to their demand for sharia law.

 

[Reuters photos: Generals Petraeus and Kayani; refugees from Buner]

113 comments

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What Pakistani military does now will decide how its future will be. It should go all out and finish off the Taliban once in for all. Any half hearted approach will result in the Taliban spreading out and multiplying. The military has to openly declare that India is not the enemy and Pakistani establishment should reach out to India and provide some comforting words. This will be the time to disband the LeT, JUD etc for good. Leaving them to fight for Kashmiri cause is useless. It has not worked until now and it will never work in the future. By trying to rattle India, Pakistan has ended up rattling itself. This should be a good lesson learned for future generations. Hate people. That’s ok. But do not hate your next door neighbor. If you try to set him on fire, the flames will spread to your own home. Pakistani military has to be sincere in its efforts. Otherwise they will pay a big price in the future.

“Otherwise they will pay a big price in the future.”

Vieled threat? Make sure you are not at the recieving end. look who is threatning here? Easy game, not Pakistan.

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive

The big price Pakistan will be paying is their own making. India will have nothing to do with it. We are not going to touch you guys. You are slicing yourself into bits. Take pictures of important monuments like your school, madrasa, mosque etc. Your brothers will run over them in the near future. The photos will come in handy when you tell your grand children about a country named Pakistan that existed and fell apart like Yugoslavia. The man who supervised the settlement in Yugoslavia is now handling AfPak! What a strange coincidence! May be Holbrooke saw the symptoms of that in your great county and so volunteered to get involved. He probably wants to help minimize the self inflicted damage to yourselves. We have now come to the stage of counting in weeks as the title of the blog says.

Army is moving in, it should carry out precision warfare. It will have to make aggressive incursion into Taliban held areas and quickly retreat to staging areas avoiding to get bogged down. Rescue and evacuation will be important elements. In urban warfare, when the Army moves into towns like Swat and Buner, the rules of engagement will change. Movements will have to be well coordinated, effective preparation and tactics necessary. Officers and men will have to be properly supplied and briefed and quickly return back to the Indian border to resume their primary responsibility. Secretary Gates has already asked Congress to quickly sanction the $400 million for the military, Clinton has calmed down, Obama is sleeping well knowing the nukes are safe.
All smiles, looking forward to Zardari-Obama-Karzai meeting in washington.

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive

“a country named Pakistan that existed and fell apart like Yugoslavia.”- Posted by Mauryan

this is one heck of B*stard F*cker Indian guy not getting it straight in his head that Pakistan has the option to nuke any enemy who ever tries to harm Pakistan. I mean Pakistan will go down and we will start dancing? No way, we would be planning some serious counter moves.

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive

My warning to all Indians,
If I ever see any non-sense comments about Pakistan on this blog any more, I will always respond with utter abuses and vulgarity triggering a chain reaction and closure of comments like Myra did in her last post. Let it be, Reuters is not meant for idiots to come and state that Pakistan will be non-existant within few weeks.

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive

“The military has to openly declare that India is not the enemy and Pakistani establishment should reach out to India and provide some comforting words.”- Posted by Mauryan

Ok, so you expect we will surrender to India, that we will come and throw ourselves on your feet and beg you? for what. Mauryan i googled your name ‘Mauryan’ here is what it said:
The Maurya Empire (321–185 B.C.E.), ruled by the Mauryan dynasty, was geographically extensive, powerful, and a political military empire in ancient India.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maurya_Empi re
here is the map:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Maurya n_Empire_Map.gif

And you know I could smell it from your writings, something was not right. I thought out to google to find out if ‘Mauryan’ has anything to do with ‘hinduism’. Tell you what now you really pray that Taliban in Pakistan are defeated. Because if Taliban in pakistan gain strength and Hindu extremist like you become strong in India. Than both these countries dont stand any chance of a future.

Posted by Umair, Islamabad, Pakistan | Report as abusive

Umair keep your cool, just chill

pakistan will be there, for a long time, read my earlier post.

April 12th, 2009
7:29 pm GMT Global Watcher @Mauryan,
One more thing, whatever the U.S. and India are going to do with Pakistan, with regards to the nxkes, it is best to do it now. It makes little sense to be reactive and make a plan when the disaster strikes. Better any action be proactive than reactive. It will save much more lives in the end.
- Posted by Global Watcher
US had lost a unique opportunity to do the above in the immediate aftermath of 911, when the entire world stood by it, since it was seen as the worst victim of terror. The diplomatic activity was so intense the then PM of India, Vajpayee, went on national TV mentioning of “tough times ahead” in preparation for an inevitable regional war. Obviously, US wanted to use indian airfields/soil to take out paks strategic assets first, before launching an attack on afghan. After all, Afghans ruling govt (of Taliban) was the brainchild of Pak. Quickly, then, Mushy had chickened out with this development and you know the rest of the story.

The myriad of problems pakis riddled with has no easy or quick solution. More bloodshed and drama is to unfold in near future, resulting in its case for aid gaining an upswing. The fact of the matter is that paks should accept the conditional aid from USA for their survival. In turn, paying a price of getting all the beating from taliban/ al qaidas anti national agenda, who declared us as their enemy. Pak wont fall or fail folks, there will be internal mayhem notwithstanding. Symptoms of disaster striking the region will be pronounced way ahead of the said fateful day. So there is time to act- it is too soon today to act as there is a price tag attached to this kind of intervention. For now the army, ISI and civil administration, collectively, are still in control of the country. All that they have to do is to keep Taliban/ alqaida in good humor.

Forced marriage can not last forever, Baloch leaders are ruthlessly eliminated on a large scale, they will act soon. Thus, another split is a feasible option and will contain the terror in the region, as each segment of pak has a different political ideology their future global agenda will look like more talk and less action. Its that much hilarious that paks demand more land from neighbors when they can not keep what already is theirs. Splitville is the best recourse. World will be a safer place.

- Posted by AzadDP

Umair this is the part i wanted to cut and paste, instead this was submerged in the whole message-

Pak wont fall or fail folks, there will be internal mayhem notwithstanding. Symptoms of disaster striking the region will be pronounced way ahead of the said fateful day. So there is time to act- it is too soon today

AzadDp

The person I am talking about seems to have been too much upset. I had seen some good comments from him about the people in the area called Pakistan, he seems to be fine with the people of Pakistan, but the statehood of pakistan is something they dont beleive in. Tell me what do i call them? hindu fundamentalists? Does the world outside know about them? How much of these people are there in India? Because like the Taliban, these people will get stronger in next 25, 50, 75 years and ruin India also, at that stage it would’nt matter how strong India is. Those extremists will destroy it.
I tell you, not many months back, I was furious about what was happening in Pakistan. But I made tireless effort to search the truth. I got down to the habit of doing search, digging in, learning about my country’s history, its good things and the short fall and mistakes. I found that there were certain events (like 1979 Afghan Soviet war) that affected Pakistan negatively. Before that Pakistan was relatively peaceful country. I became more calm, and at ease. I was searching news websites, articles, learning about world and how things worked. I knew Pakistan was going through problems but it will come right. Now I dont hate America or even India in principle. I only reply to Indians sometimes when i hear non sense repeated comments.
However, here is my recommendation for stopping hatred and extremism:
Start at early age, give the young generation good education. If you educate them properly they will have the capacity to think and make informed judgement. In pakistan most suicide bombers are very young, ofcourse now no one supports the idea what ‘Taliban’ millitants are doing. I have seen almost everyone question them what kind of millitant islam they want to impose. Their doctrine is wrong.
Same with India, religious hatred and extremism must stop.
And tell you what i keep myself a lot informed, I am pretty much confident about Pakistan’s future. If I would want to , I could leave Pakistan now. But I am hanging in here and am hopeful of the future. if I wouldnt have been searching for truth, probably I wouldnt have been hopeful of the future. You could call me an anti-millitant and anti-Taliban. I am an online member of Amnesty International but never really get to involve in activities because of lack of time.
These guys never learn, I always argued and fought with them, I referred to them excellent column written by
RAKESH SAXENA
PAKISTAN AND THE MYTH OF ISLAMIC TERRORISM

I am sure they dont know who Rakesh Saxena is , am sure Guys like Global watcher never read that link I kept posting again and again in which Rakesh argues these so called Taliban or Jihadis in Swat are posing no threat to the world. He argued that people in Swat are poor and caught up in feudalism thats why it is breeding millitancy. if someone wants to have a perspective just google and read
PAKISTAN AND THE MYTH OF ISLAMIC TERRORISM.

Posted by Umair, Islamabad, Pakistan | Report as abusive

My warning to all Indians,
If I ever see any non-sense comments about Pakistan on this blog any more, I will always respond with utter abuses and vulgarity triggering a chain reaction and closure of comments like Myra did in her last post. Let it be, Reuters is not meant for idiots to come and state that Pakistan will be non-existant within few weeks.
- Posted by Umair

Oooh, I’m so scared of this warning, I’m shaking…Lmao!
You’re finally showing your Pakistaniat, you feral degenerate. When confronted with reality, that’s all you Pakistanis can do, get abusive cuz’ you know you can’t win an argument. Who the f*ck are you to tell anyone, what one can say or one can’t on this blog? Do you own Reuters or the World wide web? People can express themselves anyway they want to, as long as it’s in a civil manner. I know, it must be hard for you to see your country get slammed on a daily basis but that doesn’t give you the right to use foul language & get abusive. If you can’t take the heat then just shut the f*ck up & stay the heck away from this blog. Go somewhere else where you just have your fellow Pakistanis agreeing with you on everything.

Posted by Mortal | Report as abusive

“You’re finally showing your Pakistaniat, you feral degenerate. When confronted with reality, that’s all you Pakistanis can do,”- Posted by Mortal

Mortal this is you sitting in the heart of NYC, so much hatred towards Pakistanis? is there not even a single good Pakistani New Yorker? Probably when senator hillary met you she told you some fabricated make up stories about Pakistan like the one she made during her election campaign.

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive

There is only one real issue here.

Pakistan may not have the capacity to deal with the taliban. After all, they lost the last three wars with India.

So if Pakistan is going to fall to terrorism, they should at least give their nuclear weapons up to the UN. Then Pakistan can do whatever it wants.

Posted by Anon | Report as abusive

Umair,

Just because I called you out for using foul & abusive language, it doesn’t mean that I hate you or any Pakistani for that matter. What I do hate, is bigotry, lack of self-introspection & disrespect towards other’s religion or nationality. For me every human is equal & I don’t judge people by their race, religion or nationality but rather by their actions & words. It might be hard for you to believe this but I do know and am friends with quite a few good, tolerant & open-minded Pakistanis, here in the US & elsewhere. They & I, may not see eye to eye on a few things but we try to understand each other’s point of view & walk in each other’s shoes a little bit. I understand that it’s a frustrating time for Pakistanis right now but becoming abusive or violent is not the solution to anything. Abuse will only give you more abuse, in return.

Posted by Mortal | Report as abusive

“My warning to all Indians,
If I ever see any non-sense comments about Pakistan on this blog any more, I will always respond with utter abuses and vulgarity triggering a chain reaction and closure of comments like Myra did in her last post. Let it be, Reuters is not meant for idiots to come and state that Pakistan will be non-existant within few weeks.”

Umair,

I understand your frustrations. It must be hard to swallow your pride when the Taliban is turning your soldiers into concubines. And on top of that we Indians are watching the innings from high ground and laughing at the plight of your military. Taliban has special bangles and jewels set up for Kayani and they will take him one day, not far from today.

Your tail enders are batting now. The innings will close soon. So we are watching them fight to avoid the innings defeat.

You throwing your nuclear insults on this blog will do no harm. There will be another blog and we will be back there to laugh at you. For now practice listing your lines that you repeat in every blog. Or can copy them and paste them every time (We have nukes, we are 173 million balls, we are a vibrating democracy etc). Do something different.

Umair tells the truth: “Pakistan has the option to nuke any enemy who ever tries to harm Pakistan. ”

Yes that’s right. Right now the Taliban are fighting your soldiers and emasculating them. See if your nukes work on them. If not, your rear end will become the target of the nukes once they get them.

“Pakistan has the option to nuke any enemy who ever tries to harm Pakistan”

Posted by Umair:

Pakistan is facing threat from inside terrorist groups and Talibs, GO NUKE YOURSELF !

Posted by punjabiyaar | Report as abusive

“If I ever see any non-sense comments about Pakistan on this blog any more, I will always respond with utter abuses and vulgarity triggering a chain reaction”

Umair Wrote:

So you did not forget “CHAIN REACTION” even in abuses. You coward, when nothing works for you, you start ABUSING.

Whats next BADDUA ??

Posted by punjabiyaar | Report as abusive

Umair,

I told you earlier too- Stop boasting about your nukes. Instead build some Anti- drone system. you know what I mean. Also, make sure you nuke taliban when they flog you in public. Dude, you talk as if you carry nukes in your pocket. Stop talking nonsense. Contribute good things to this blog and your society, If you can’t- Be quiet.

Posted by Nick | Report as abusive

Sanjeev:

The saying goes : “Better Late than Never” , finally the realisation dawned upon the Pak military , that India is not the threat ,the threat comes from within. Historically, India has never been a threat to Pakistan , and all our defense preparedness is necessary to defend India , all the Indo-Pak wars , the principal reason was Pak aggression , India has never attacked Pakistan . We always believed in peaceful co existence with Pakistan. The presence of Indian army on Indo-Pak border is to prevent terrorist incursions at the behest of Pak army. 26/11 Mumbai attack was also perpetrated by Pak based actors trained by Pak army .

India and Pakistan , world’s 2 poorest countries spend substantial part of their budget on defense, if this money can be used for developing healthcare , education , malnutrition, the world could have definitely been a better place .

International community is most conveniently overlooking the presence of nuclear arsenals in Pakistan and profliterators like A.Q Khan and his cronies are danger to humanity , international community must immediately take possession of these nuclear arsenals and prosecute criminals like khan and his cronies for crimes against humanity.

Posted by Manish | Report as abusive

Ok Guys stop making noise, do a little exercise. I am posting a link below and if each one of you could take 5 minutes and read it and post your views:

Pakistan, & the Myth of Islamic Terrorism by Rakesh Saxena
http://www.odidia.com/index.php?page=pak istan-the-myth-of-islamic-terrorism

Thanks and no reason to sympathize with me for being frustrated. I am absolutely upbeat and will keep contributing to the blog as passionately as before.

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive

For years Pakistan has been at war with India when it should have been taking care of their own internal affairs. Now I fear it’s to late. Pakistan’s leadership over the years has been bad. The US has spent billions of dollars to help Pakistan money that was wasted. I hope president Obama has the courage to tell Pakistan to shape up or ship out. Stop giving them money. The United States thinks money buys friendship but look at the history. We spent millions of dollars giving Russia airplanes and tanks durring the second world war and what happened. They put up a wall. After all we are not our brothers keeper.

“Your tail enders are batting now. The innings will close soon. So we are watching them fight to avoid the innings defeat. “-Posted by Mauryan

Remember the Australia South Africa semi final world cup match where Lance Klusener smashed two consecutive boundaries of the first two balls of the last over to level the score when total 9 runs were needed to win, who would have thought South Africa would loose from there. It was the mental strength of Australians who kept their nerve and never accepted defeat. We are as unpredicatble as our cricket. You will not just yet sign Pakistan off as a failed state. As long as we are fighting YOU guys are not so sure.
This morning in Islamabad i was chatting with a local taxi driver who hailed from District Hangu, we covered local populations greviences, government’s short comings, why Taliban enjoy support from local people (Yes, till now it was thought Taliban were hated), it looks actually as if Taliban provide things that the Pakistani state has failed to. etc Also what are the major problems domestic front, this is what he told me:
1. No hospital
2. No proper schooling
3. No clean drinking water
It means people dont have those facilities over there. Taliban help the weak. Taliban are acually as living in cities without blood shed. I m
Next when I grabbed the newspaper today, it caught my eye that 6000 troops movement to the western border did not take place by Army. Secondly, Army thinks millitants are being supported via Afghanistan.

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive

too bad india was so slow at catching on to peak oil… now they have to sign up with the israeli american/PNAC/AEI/exxon 9/11 project in an attempt to catch up with china’s oil aquisition program.

china apparently figured out the peak oil situation years ago, and since then, has been buying oil faster that the israeli americans can steal it, which explains why the israeli americans and indians have to tear up pakistan in an attempt to restrict chinese access to persian gulf energy…

not to mention the fact that the PNAC project will supposedly get rid of pakistan’s nukes…

not to mention the fact that india is being groomed to replace the US as protector of israel, seeing as how the US in unlikely to survive peak oil and looting by american oligarchs who see the peak oil handwriting on the wall.

PNAC plan for pakistan… with oil deposits, pipelines, other details:
http://img513.imageshack.us/img513/1479/ operationenduringturmoi.jpg

official neocon map published in US Armed Forces Journal (graphic)
http://images.google.com/images?gbv=2&hl =en&sa=1&q=blood+borders&btnG=Search+Ima ges&aq=f&oq=

article published in US Armed Forces Journal (text)
http://www.google.com/search?gbv=2&hl=en &q=%22blood+borders%22+%22armed+forces+j ournal%22

google search of “blood borders” author: ralph peters neocon
http://www.google.com/search?gbv=2&hl=en &q=%22ralph+peters%22+neocon

how exxon got hooked up with the the AEI:
http://wadosy.blogspot.com/

Posted by wadosy | Report as abusive

security for israel, oil for exxon: US taxpayers foot the bill

it’s no secret that the israelis have been pushing for reassembly of the middle east for decades, and it seems reasonable to assume that israel —located as it is adjacent to the world’s biggest oil patch— would not be nearly as important to america if america were not so dependent on oil…. for instance, if america was supplying itself with electricity from nuke plants built and operated by exxon, fueled with uranium from exxon mines.

if exxon had continued with its nuke development, maybe most of us would be driving electric cars by now…

…but once exxon became aware of israeli americans’ determination to thwart development of nuke plants, once exxon became aware of the power of the israeli american media, once exxon became aware of israeli and israeli american determination to remodel the middle east, exxon gave up on their nukes and joined up with the israeli americans in their land and oil acquisition project.

since the american taxpayer would be footing the bill for the project —at a time when oil is getting scarce and exploration and production costs are soaring— an alliance with the israeli americans and their PNAC project is the cheapest way for exxon to grab a chunk of the biggest oil reserves in the world.

overall PNAC plan:
http://img529.imageshack.us/img529/3637/ pnacplan18apr09.jpg

Posted by wadosy | Report as abusive

Umair,
I should be surprised at your angry remarks, but I am not due to the current situation in your country. I stopped reading the new for a while, but when I returned this is what I read…

-’300 Taliban suicide bombers on way to Islamabad,’ claim Pakistan officials (The Daily Mail, 26/04/2009)

-Mounting external debt amid slowing GDP growth (The News, 27/04/2009)

-Up to 1mn displaced in northwest Pakistan (Gulf Times, 28/04/2009)

-Pakistan loses 2011 rights (The Daily Telegraph, 28/04/2009)

-Pakistan violence: 20 killed in ethnic clashes in Karachi (The Daily Telegraph, 30/04/2009)

-Foreign exchange outflows rise sharply (Dawn, 30/04/2009)

-Obama: Pakistan threat ‘internal’ (Al Jazeera, 30/04/2009)

-Karachi Violence hits industrial output, exports (Dawn, 01/05/2009)

-Fear of violence paralyses life in Karachi (Dawn, 01/05/2009)

-Taleban hold town hostage (Saudi Gazette, 01/05/2009)

-Barack Obama reveals his fears for Pakistan (The Australian, 01/05/2009)

-Now, U.S. Sees Pakistan as a Cause Distinct From Afghanistan (International Herald Tribune, 01/05/2009)

Your country is being slowly eaten up internally with a lot of external debt. Do not think for one second that the money you are getting will not have to be paid back.

As for the Taliban helping the weak! Yeah, right! If they are helping the weak then maybe they should help Zardari.

Posted by bulletfish | Report as abusive

Umair
“Secretary Gates has already asked Congress to quickly sanction the $400 million for the military,”

—But this time ‘Sickatory Gates’ will take a larger chunk of it as his commission leaving change for you guys…

Posted by anup | Report as abusive

Umair,
You posted this link:
Pakistan, & the Myth of Islamic Terrorism by Rakesh Saxena
http://www.odidia.com/index.php?page=pak istan-the-myth-of-islamic-terrorism

Why the hell are you posting links about Pakistan and terrorism myth now? Terrorism in Pakistan is NOT a myth unless you have your head buried in the sand! YOU got the Taliban 60 miles from Islamabad and you posted a link about terrorism myth! If its a myth then is the fighting in and around Buner just a military exercise?

Posted by bulletfish | Report as abusive

Umair writes: “We are as unpredicatble as our cricket.”

Unpredictability is the sign of a failed state. It can go any which way. Your cricket has already disappeared from your land and your teams are playing cricket in neutral grounds. Looks like your nation will do the same with wealthy Pakis and military generals emigrating to England, US and write books on what went wrong. The rest of you will be eating each other’s flesh.

“You will not just yet sign Pakistan off as a failed state.”

Looks like it already is. Now we are talking about which province will split up first – NWFP or Balochistan? You should be able to tell me since you are living there. The rest of the discussion is useless and belongs to history books. Pakistan as we knew before will be in history and not in geography.

“it looks actually as if Taliban provide things that the Pakistani state has failed to. etc. Taliban help the weak. Taliban are actually as living in cities without blood shed.”

In slums and ghettos, people prefer to go to the mafia dons instead of the police. The mafia indulges in murder, rape, prostitution, drug trafficking, extortion etc. The police lose all control and become corrupt. In general the police itself starts working with the mafia. And the mafia rules. Looks like the Taliban is taking over Pakistan if your people consider them better than your government. You have indirectly said that you are ready to be the subject of the Taliban. Start practicing dance moves, because you are going to be a concubine for a Pashtun from Swat.

Mauyan,
Please do not be so brutal. Pakistan will not fail, but it will keep itself just on the brink of failure so it can continue to receive money from donors. You are right about the cricket though.

Pakistan already has a large number of displaced people WITHIN its borders due to the fighting between Pak forces and the Taliban. What would happen if Pakistanis started to cross the border into India for safety from the fighting?

Posted by bulletfish | Report as abusive

Anup

But this time ‘Sickatory Gates’ will take a larger chunk of it as his commission leaving change for you guys…

- Posted by anup

you made several great comments before. This above one is in a very poor taste.Checks and balances are way too rigid here,i think you dont live here in USA.

Umair
you wrote……..
1. No hospital
2. No proper schooling
3. No clean drinking water………..

Agree.
But how on earth Taliban can provide the above, not buy gun i can tell you, but only with diplomacy and democracy.

No peace means no trade and no business, investers will just disappear.

its ridiculos to read some of the comments in any story about india or pakistan. we see the same type of comments from the same people saying the same things. you have the pro-indian group who find everything and anything to say degrading about islam and pakistan and you have the pro-pakistani group who conitnue to focus on india as being the cause for all their problems. let’s not forget the extremisim that lies in india in hindu-extremist groups. have you all forgotten the attacks in 20002 when almost 2000 muslims were murdered, burned, and raped??? where was the out cry then?? where was the out rage then?? and pakistan itself needs to address the problems it has in its own country. for decaded now the minority muslims sects like shias and sufis have been slaughtered by radical sunni groups, before taliban became a problem. this is ironic considering the founder of pakistan, mohammed jinnah was a shia himself. the least you can do is at least treat your own country men with respect.

Posted by sidney | Report as abusive

Sidney

no indian said on this blog or any where else that the infamous riots which took place in gujarat in 2002, where in both hindus and muslims were victims,were correct. A train load of hindu piligrams were set on fire by some miscreants (muslims). The riots were spontaneous outrage and reactionary in nature, yes agree, not right.But when, later, Aksharardham temple was occupied and hindus were massacred (by muslims), no riots happened, Bombs went off in holy city of Varanasi killing hindus- no riots happened.

BTW the top policeman of gujarat stae is a muslim now.

30 Hindus left Pakistan last month and became refugees living in tents across the border. Sikhs were thrown out of their homes in Pak. They were pakistanis for centuries.What happened to your sense of justice and philonthropy, you dont speak for hidus and sikhs, do you.

26/11 is still fresh on our minds just like 911 is still fresh on american minds.

sidney says… “pakistan itself needs to address the problems it has in its own country.”

guess who’s planning on profiting from stirring up trouble in pakistan?

neocons have tried that strategy in the balkans, where it worked, resulting in israeli american occupation of the power vacuum left behind in the balkans when the soviet union collapsed.

it also worked to a certain extent in iraqi kurdistan, which just happens to be pro-israel and pro-american, and just happens to have the closest oil of any consequence to israel.

same tactics in the khuzestan province of iran.

neocons are still half-heartedly trying that strategy in chechnya, but putin put his foot down… which resulted in opportunities for the media to vilify putin, who was already in the doghouse for being such a meany to the israeli russians who wanted to sell russian oil, gas and pipelines to exxon, which would have provided israeli america with guarantees of oil supplies as israeli america remodeled the middle east to israeli spec.

neocons are doing the same thing in darfur, in an attempt to change regimes in sudan and expel the chinese oil company in south sudan.

the same thing is happening in somalia, abkhazia, south ossetia, now balochistan and northern pakistan… stand by for trouble in yemen and eritrea, and more trouble in ukraine, georgia, probably kygyzstan, tajikistan, uzbekistan and turkmenistan…

it’s really simple: all you have to do is stir up enough trouble to justify intervention, and you stir up that trouble by exploiting latent conflicts in the country you’re trying to destabilize…

the ploy’s become so obvious in pakistan that it can no longer be denied…

…and once you see a map of the project, it becomes even more obvious.

Posted by wadosy | Report as abusive

@its ridiculos to read some of the comments in any story about india or pakistan. we see the same type of comments from the same people saying the same things. you have the pro-indian group who find everything and anything to say degrading about islam and pakistan and you have the pro-pakistani group who conitnue to focus on india as being the cause for all their problems. let’s not forget the extremisim that lies in india in hindu-extremist groups.”
-posted by Sidney

Sidney: I hope you stay for some time for discussion rather than commenting and disappearing.

Azaddp addressed your points. if you have missed nearly every Indian blogger here is anti-Hindu extremism and has condemned Gujrat riots. But how does Hindu extremism anything to do with the topic at hand and the situation in Pakistan? Hindu extremist do not have plans to create trouble for neighboring states. They have issues–all internal to India. Just for your peace of mind, I condmen all these Hindu extremist groups.

If you assume bloggers are anti-Islam, it is your problem not bloggers. About being anti-Pakistan: Yes I am anti-Pakistan for n# of reasons I have posted already.
Before you logoff, I am not anti-Pakistani. There are all nice people with same thoughts as mine and bloggers inside Pakistan—writing everyday. On reuters, I will deal with those Pakistanis which I encounter.

You as an outsider to the region, are oversimplifying the stuff.

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive

Today on CNN, please read below:

CNN: Fareed Zakaria: The Pakistani military has been in a state of denial. It spends most of its time, energy and resources planning for a war against India, a war on its eastern frontier. That’s the war they know and are comfortable with — a big conventional deployment. And for the last three decades, by seeing India as the enemy, the military could get big budgets — they had a much larger enemy — but also know that there is actually only a small possibility of a war.

It seems a new reality will be thrust on the army, it is the western countries, which have the power to change the ways of the Pakistani army and challenge them, not the average Pakistani. The mafiotic and parasitic manner in which the PA army has perpetuated the myth of an antagonistic India is now dawning the fact that the PA army and their ISI have killed and wasted for the last 30-40 years, so much potential. The real tragedy in Pakistan is the lost potential of Pakistani as a country due to the greed of its Military establishment, using terror to fool western powers to fuel its business model. Those days seem to be coming to an end as more and more western leaders are starting to forcefully leverage and shame the Pak military into acting.

The only way for Pakistan to progress into a modern country is for the army to destroy all its dirty taliban, proxy armies, madrasas and finally the army must dismantle itself entirely and be re-created in the context of maitaining territorial integrity.

The Obama administration and the Brown Administration have reiterated multiple times that India is not the enemy. With such intense international pressure from western powers, it seems to be the only thing to make Pakistan react to any sort of sensible, real world action.

The parasites in uniform sitting in Rawalpindi and Islamabad have milked the cash cow for decades at the expense of the average Pakistani by using a falsely created myth of an overly exaggerated India. The exact opposite is actually true and always has been and now this is starting to become a known reality.

Posted by Global Watcher | Report as abusive

Whoever that Sydney is. I don’t know which country he/she is from. Only based on that I can provide a response. The answer is specific to the country. I do not want to address “Western nation” or “NATO country” or “Developed nation” etc.

I am assuming that you are from a country that fought communism. Or come forward and mention which country you are from.

Assuming you belong to the anti-communist bloc, your countries fought for a noble cause of defeating communism. For that they had to make strange alliances which forced your leaders to ignore human rights violations, genocides, betrayals, corruption, wars and every negative thing in order to get the USSR down hard. The anti-communist nations worked together supporting dictatorships, overthrew democratically elected governments, created religious fanatics to turn up the heat and motivation, trained people who became future terrorists, turned brother against brother, divided up countries, sold weapons to both warring parties for a profit, turned good countries into swamps as a part of this monumental effort. This was done so that you all could live comfortably in your countries with all the wealth. Those who actually did the dirty work for you were left to themselves and they are still fighting each other.

It is easy to sit somewhere on a sunny beach and tell others to behave themselves. If your countries did not mess up the world for your benefit, none of this would have happened. Our verbal assaults are nothing compared to the real damage your countries have inflicted, while making a tiny percentage of the world population.

And what you complain here makes no sense. We never talked about genocide or violence in each other’s country. We know there is no country free of that blame. As far as us Indians are concerned, we have made tremendous efforts to progress towards a better life against the odds. And it is frustrating to us when we find a neighboring country which has simply lived all its life pointing its guns at us. Your reaction will not be any different if you had a neighbor like that. Just like you have the right to defend yourself, we possess the same rights. If we get insulted, we return the courtesy. So kindly stop playing God and leave us to settle our issues ourselves. Sometimes we have to whack people to make them see the light. And it may not sound good, but that’s what works.

here’s a quote from the CFR (council on foreign relations) website… http://www.cfr.org/publication/19260/sta bilizing_pakistan.html?breadcrumb=%2F

“One of the biggest achievements has been the new deepwater port at Gwadar in the southwest province of Balochistan, which was funded and built by the Chinese. In 2007 PSA International of Singapore won a forty-year contract to run the port. But this, too, is threatened by domestic insurgency, separatist rebellion, and local grievances. Robert Kaplan, national correspondent for the Atlantic magazine, writes that if Gwadar languishes “it will be yet more evidence of Pakistan’s failure as a nation.” ”

so what we got is israeli america and india teaming up to ensure that “gwadar languishes”, which will be proof, according to this Kaplan guy, of “Pakistan’s failure as a nation.”

wonderful… and that’s how it works.

Posted by wadosy | Report as abusive

it comes as no great surprise to learn that this Kaplan fella is a radical israeli american veteran of the IDF, who has set himself up as an expert about war between israeli america and china…

…all of which dovetails nicely with israeli american/indian/neocon efforts to break balochistan off from pakistan, chase the chinese out of gwadar, and take control of turkmenistan and iranian gas and pipeline routes.

Robert D. Kaplan wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_D._K aplan

“robert kaplan” neocon
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe= off&q=%22robert+kaplan%22+neocon

How We Would Fight China by Robert D. Kaplan
http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200506/ka plan

Posted by wadosy | Report as abusive

Maniac writes: “so what we got is israeli america and india teaming up to ensure that “gwadar languishes”, which will be proof, according to this Kaplan guy, of “Pakistan’s failure as a nation.”

wonderful… and that’s how it works.”

Assuming a rope to be a snake can make you unnecessarily paranoic. I am sure every country has its intelligence networks operating in many parts of the world for their own purposes. But if Chinese are building Gawadar port, no one generally messes with them, India of all. India knows what not to do and where not to go. I don’t know how Israel can even set foot in the entire region made up people who would kill a Jew at the drop of a hat. The US? May be they are looking at all options. They in general do not saying things loud in public. What they say in public and what they actually do can be vastly different. Their CIA and Pentagon might be working on various scenarios and preparing for a very different task of not letting the Chinese get a foot hold in the region. As I see it, the US wants an unhindered pathway to Central Asian oil to the Arabian sea. So if China sets up shop in Gawadar, that might work counter productive to their plans. India has no use in that region. India will be comfortable seeing small independent states next to it. If the situation presents itself that way without any effort, so be it. Balochistan rebellion has always been there since 1947. India did exploit it in the 1970s. With the US in the region doing its things, India will not even mess with their efforts, unless both India and the US have a master plan. I don’t think the relations are that close. May be Pakistan’s nukes might be an issue that the two countries might work together. But this depends upon how the situation in Pakistan develops.

So in short, there is possibly only one country acting in Gawadar to counter China. It is the US. It will need access to the Taliban in Quetta as well. India might be helping them with intelligence information. In this situation, it would be foolish of India to get into insurgency support. So do not live in unnecessary fear.

as far as i can tell, so far the gwadar port has been a flop.

a couple shiploads of the same substance used in the oklahoma bombing (which ought to come in handy for more israeli/israeli american false flag attacks on pakistan and india) and maybe a couple shiploads of wheat.

so what’s really going on here, is: china spends a couple hundred million bucks on cement a a handfull of cranes, and lures israeli america into spending a few trillion bucks chasing the chinese out of that port.

meanwhile, all china has to do is spend its accumulated dollars (buying oil rather than stealing it) before israeli america sinks further into the sunset from looters who see the peak oil handwriting on the wall.

Posted by wadosy | Report as abusive

@so what we got is israeli america and india teaming up to ensure that “gwadar languishes”, which will be proof, according to this Kaplan guy, of “Pakistan’s failure as a nation.”
wonderful… and that’s how it works.
- Posted by wadosy

-Mr. wadosy:

Perhaps, I agree with you on that—perhaps. But may be Kaplan is saying so due to the fact that Chinese have invested billions into it for seeing to their energy supplies from central asia and getting at India’s neck, geographically speaking. So that should be the last thing to be under any attack since it is so precious to Pak/Chinese—SWAT may not matter, but Gawdar sure does. I guess you will agree with me on that. In that sense, he is right that if Gawdar “languishes” then it is “Pakistan’s failure as a nation.”

Chinese have been offered Saksham Valley by Pakistan up in the Kashmir without Kashmiris’ permission for Chinese startegic interests. Pakistan offers the best to them and they will not like Chinese interests to suffer anywhere, including Gawdar and it is up to Pakistan to protect that.

India/Israel/US teaming up to ensure “gwadar languishes” is nothing but BS and conspiracy theory. Add isreal anywhere and theory sells and with India/Isreal combo better and US/Isreal/India–nothing like that. But such theories come dime a dozen. Have you got something more to back it up.

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive

all i can go on is the neocons’ map and their philosophy.

their map is self-explanatory, and they’re on record as wanting to achieve “benevolent global hegemony”… and it’s a measure of their sickness that their “benevolence” has already caused the needless deaths of maybe a million people.

we’ve got a convergence of motives here…

india needs energy from the persian gulf, energy that is escaping into the hands of its great rival, china

india wants to neutralize pakistani nukes

india wants to curry favor with the people who have the power, the bombs and the moral degeneracy required to carry out massive atrocities

israeli america wants to restrict china’s access to energy, perhaps a last-ditch effort to control global warming, perhaps just a sense of entitlement… “we’re the big dogs, and we will grab all the oil.”

israel wants to neutralize pakistani nukes

israel will need a replacement protector once america goes under from oil shortages and looters, and india is it.

israel will need a protector as it finishes ethnic cleansing palestinians from the high ground in the west bank, assuming for the sake of argument that the remaining oil, gas and coal will be burned, another 100 ppm of CO2 accumulate in the atmosphere, sea level will rise (up to 80 meters) and israel will have to move to that high ground in the west bank, which it has been nibbling at, relentlessly, under the protection of the US.

Posted by wadosy | Report as abusive

@israel will need a replacement protector once america goes under from oil shortages and looters, and india is it.

israel will need a protector as it finishes ethnic cleansing palestinians from the high ground in the west bank, assuming for the sake of argument that the remaining oil, gas and coal will be burned, another 100 ppm of CO2 accumulate in the atmosphere, sea level will rise (up to 80 meters) and israel will have to move to that high ground in the west bank, which it has been nibbling at, relentlessly, under the protection of the US.
- Posted by wadosy

India is the most unfit country to get this job. India’s resume is (thankfully) unflattering by all means. This job means inviting trouble. Come on there exists a threshold for Conspiracy theoeries.

Internet sure did increase all this—all different maps are floating around of the new world and blah…….
This is not ignoring the power play.

India/Israel could not take care of the Nuke business when they had chance–when Pak Nuke was still in works.

You got have seen some positive theory.

Is Pakistan up to some thing that fits into conspiracy theory or are these terrorists who want to rule the world with radical Islam. Anything? or all this is conspiracy.

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive

wadosy’s crap down here:
“india wants to curry favor with the people who have the power, the bombs and the moral degeneracy required to carry out massive atrocities”

moral degeneracy, massive atrocities

Give me some theory on Radical Islam ruling the world “in peace”. I guess this is real declared threat. They don;t hide. I am not favoring Iraq, Gaza, etc but India if it wants can swallow up small neighbors. Keep India put of this bloody crap of yours.

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive

India is the most unfit country to get this job (as israel’s protector)”

not if you think about it… the western economies are on their way down, permanently unless some magical replacement for oil is found… and the prospects of finding a replacement are dismal.

so israel would be better off seeking protection from people who are so far down it still looks like “up” to them, people who still have an illusion of being able to sustain “business as usual”…

in that sense, israel’s choosing india as a protector makes a little sense…

i will admit, however, that the whole PNAC/AEI neocon project might be nothing more than cover for the biggest looting operation ever…

more likely though, some of these people are looters, some are diehard zionists, some still believe in the possibility of america’s salvation (which would include grabbing the rest of the oil) or israel’s salvation (which would involve finding a protector to replace america), and some are just waiting to see how bad it gets before they bail out and move to paraguay.

america’s in a cold civil war right now, deciding which among those factions will win.

in the long run, it wont make much difference.

something seems to have gone haywire with my big PNAC map, so here’s a replacement.
http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/3637/ pnacplan18apr09.jpg

Posted by wadosy | Report as abusive

i really dont see how you can quibble about calling people morally degenerate when they, one one hand, intend to establish “benevolent global hegemony” and, on the other hand have already killed, as their project’s just getting cranked up, a million people.

some “benevolence”

Posted by wadosy | Report as abusive

wadosy:

So you ignored this:

“Is Pakistan up to some thing that fits into conspiracy theory or are these terrorists who want to rule the world with radical Islam. Anything? or all this is conspiracy.”

Remember you get what you wish for. be careful. I have not idea about ur background. I am Indian.

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive

@i really dont see how you can quibble about calling people morally degenerate when they, one one hand, intend to establish “benevolent global hegemony” and, on the other hand have already killed, as their project’s just getting cranked up, a million people.

some “benevolence”

- Posted by wadosy

-wadosy:
That still does not explain India in this elite club as you mentioned:

“india wants to curry favor with the people who have the power, the bombs and the moral degeneracy required to carry out massive atrocities”

—I am no less symathetic towards those civilians who died in wars. My point was how and why do you club India in this. Just because India is linked with them makes the Indian PMs think all the time about bombing and looking for moral degenerate people for killing. Pakistan, as an example, has been and still is an ally of US and falls in the elite club shared by Israel/Pak/US. Perhaps they are there looking for morallty degenerates to bomb India and other infidels?

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive

i’ve already posted india’s motives: they boil down to (1) energy (2) getting rid of pakistan’s nukes, and (3) catching up with china.

india’s betting that america is strong enough and will last long enough to achieve it’s hegemony, eliminate pakistan’s nukes, and then will reward india —with access to energy— for its participation.

seems like a long shot, doesnt it?

in the meantime, you’ve got maybe 50,000 young ex-military israelis wandering around india, some of whom are likely to be willing to blow up indians or pakistanis or whoever if it’s likely to improve israel’s chances of survival, which are getting slimmer every day.

but here’s another thing to think about: if israel is entitled to a “samson option”, is pakistan also then entitled to a “samson option”?

Posted by wadosy | Report as abusive

wadosy:

Thanks, I have seen that map. Someone was using it in context of “Shanghai Accord”.

But again:
Give me some your views on the declared threat of Radical Islam ruling the world “in peace”.

Are you selective? or the terrorism above is trivial issue.

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive

radical jewishness poses a much greater threat to america than radical islam.

if you’ve been paying the least bit of attention, you know what kind of stranglehold israel has on american politics and media…

they’ve lied us into one war, are trying to lie us into another war, and seeing as how these same people stated, in september of 2000 that they needed “a new pearl harbor” to kickstart their project, and were subsequently installed into positions from which they could make their “new pearl harbor” happen…

and that’s what this american “cold civil war” is about: are we america or are we israeli america?

Posted by wadosy | Report as abusive

@but here’s another thing to think about: if israel is entitled to a “samson option”, is pakistan also then entitled to a “samson option”?
- Posted by wadosy

—I am able to sketech your profile—-pretty much.

Wadosy, If Pak uses the samson option against India-that will be based on their assumption that India is NUKABLE enough despite India doing nothing and has been a threat and better yet threat enough to have moral explanation to be given to Allah to encash “74 virgins/boys” up somewhere. If they do not have moral explanation–which they do not have in my view, but still use the option, they are no better than so-called moral degenerate “Israel”. I have no idea where the whole country will go as an alternative to “74 virgins/boys” –in hell fire?

No country has the moral right to do so. Copying a moral degenerate makes one morally degenerate—and if known the country is so before even the use.
Not a rocket science.

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive

well, at least i’m glad to see you admit that israel is morally degenerate for threatening to use its samson option.

does that give you any clue about the moral character of israeli leadership?

Posted by wadosy | Report as abusive

@radical jewishness poses a much greater threat to america than radical islam.

if you’ve been paying the least bit of attention, you know what kind of stranglehold israel has on american politics and media…

they’ve lied us into one war, are trying to lie us into another war, and seeing as how these same people stated, in september of 2000 that they needed “a new pearl harbor” to kickstart their project, and were subsequently installed into positions from which they could make their “new pearl harbor” happen…

and that’s what this american “cold civil war” is about: are we america or are we israeli america?
- Posted by wadosy

–You said you have been lied to wars–American–christian?
I will not be in position to discuss with you if I do not know about your country/background. If I know the background I will not talk to you stuff which I know you already know.

India, if you noticed did not get into any of these wars–India knows the deal. Either bec India knows they are wrong or because India knows getting into these wars will make India a soft target for Islamic Jihadists. In either case, linking with India as protector of Isreal theory has no ground to stand on. Only if one has no idea about India history and geography and culture, one can suggest that.

–India is suffering from the radical Islam terrorists the reason if you pay attention is Pakistani politics and turned into religious—easy to brainwash them.

Also, there is change in the feeling at academic level–will send you the book link forgot the name–that Israel lobby is hurting the cause of everyone–Isreal, middle east, US—Financial is just a small reason. This was the analyses of 2 academicians who wrote that book. There will be a slow shift.

New pearl harbor? Nuking what all.

Your recommendations for Isrealis survival?

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive

oh.

so israel would not be immoral for threatening to use its samson option if i were a druid from lithuania?

are we seeing another example of “situational ethics” here?

Posted by wadosy | Report as abusive

@well, at least i’m glad to see you admit that israel is morally degenerate for threatening to use its samson option.
does that give you any clue about the moral character of israeli leadership?
- Posted by wadosy

Samson option is a crazy idea. and the whole Nuke business as such is that way.

Do you know when India-Israel serious diplomatic relationship started—1992?

India has been the first non-Arabian nation to recognize Palestine. While many watched, India condemned latest killing of Gazans.

Here is the book link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Israel_ Lobby_and_U.S._Foreign_Policy

I got to go for my dinner.

Nice talking to you. Tell me where your background-it helps-if it is not some top secret. Mine (India/Hindu).

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive

israel was founded in lies, terror and injustice, and has preserved itself with lies, terror and injustice.

if israel limited its lies, its terror and its injustice to israel, and was not dragging america into its battles, that would be one thing.

since i’m an american, and these wars are being promoted by zionists —be they christian lunatics or jewish lunatics— and they are supported by a host of warmonger corporations that never met a war they didnt like, and we americans are wasting trillions of dollars on wars and bailouts of looters, and that money should have been spent preparing america for declining supplies of oil and climate change…

well, because of all that, i am entitled to be disgusted with the moral degenerates in israel who are ensuring moral degenerates are installed in leadership positions in america.

Posted by wadosy | Report as abusive

oh.
so israel would not be immoral for threatening to use its samson option if i were a druid from lithuania?
are we seeing another example of “situational ethics” here?
- Posted by wadosy

-wadosy: I said:
No country has the moral right to do so. Copying a moral degenerate makes one morally degenerate—and if known the country is so before even the use. Is it too hard to understand.

Come off your high horse, I am the wrong person to talk to you if you want to take out your anger against Israel–since I do not going to defend them.

No Samson option for anyone—clear?
Off I go to grab a bite–finally

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive

“No Samson option for anyone—clear?”

so you must be dismayed by the fact that india has allied itself with israel…

probably as dismayed as i am about america being allied with israel.

Posted by wadosy | Report as abusive

@since i’m an american, and these wars are being promoted by zionists —be they christian lunatics or jewish lunatics— and they are supported by a host of warmonger corporations that never met a war they didnt like, and we americans are wasting trillions of dollars on wars and bailouts of looters, and that money should have been spent preparing america for declining supplies of oil and climate change
- Posted by wadosy

Wadosy:

Finally you stupid (..lol) americans are looking outside the window that there exists a bloody outside US. Calling superbowl champion as world champion crap has been so much embdedded into you. You sleeping ignorant populace never ever faced the heat of terror and whatever Bush/FOX/CNN red/blue channel feed you , that’s what you have been eating. Sad example was reelction of Bush. Bush’s words give Americans a dose of safety by and America sleeps pretending that they are the justified policmen of the world. tell me this when this realization into you—when you felt the heat and your blinds were ripped apart.

For a democratic country that is all over the world, the citizens do not feel the need to look outside—No questions asked to the leaders. The plans and maps look great and explain but you need to have an understanding of the nations. By your words, Isreal is fooling American leaders, then how much you know about foreign cultures. These words are in context of India.

This is beyound my understanding: Isreal lobby is small and powerful, but you everyday americans why you do not take to the streets to protest. Take my word, no lobby stands in the way of people. If Bush knew that there are 1million people out there in the streets with plackards to protest against the role of Jewish lobby in US policy them he will have to ignore that or stay out of the white house.

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive

you moan about the ignorance of americans, and then badmouth me because i’m trying to educate americans.

why is that?

Posted by wadosy | Report as abusive

israel is coercing american leaders or coopting them, and eliminating the ones they cant coerce or coopt.

meanwhile, the general population is deliberately kept in ignorance.

the function of the mass media in america is not to inform; their function is to confuse common people so badly that they’ll give up trying to understand.

we have a big circus once in a while, like obama’s election… and his election is most likely a ploy to pacify the blacks of america, who might be less inclined to burn their cities once the situation deteriorates.

and the spanish-speakers will be manipulated by haim saban, who recently bought the biggest spanish-language television network in america…

…you remember haim, dont you…? the “one issue guy, and that issue is israel”?

so the name of the game is to preserve the status quo for as long as possible, preserve the ignorance, prolong the opportunities to loot, preserve willingness of taxpayers to support these wars.

in the best of all possible PNAC worlds, israel will be protected by america until the handoff to india can be accomplished, america will be preserved long enough to protect israel until israel can grab enough high ground to survive, exxon will get a gigantic chunk of the remaining oil in the world (which will help delay america’s implosion), and the elite will loot enough to preserve their lifestyle as the rest of us starve down to a sustainable level… maybe four billion less than now.

…or maybe not. maybe these wars are just cover for the looters… or maybe there’s half a dozen different factions… but peak oil was the trigger.

what do you think caused such desperation that the 9/11 operation happened?

Posted by wadosy | Report as abusive

Back from dinner and drink,
wadosy:
Don;t be oversensitive. Essence of the post was that US leaders are fooling you because you are foolable. Anf it has been happening since long.
why SOME americans are curious in the world that lives outside is 9/11 and recession.

@so you must be dismayed by the fact that india has allied itself with israel…
probably as dismayed as i am about america being allied with israel.
- Posted by wadosy

wadosy: you’ll be dismayed that I am not. For you Jew-US is the main issue. For me and can safely say for other Indians too that Israel is not the one for trouble between India-Pak and also to your disagreement in Afghanistan.

Jewish terrorism is an issue for you, not for me. For me, LeT and such gangs operated by Pakistani Army/ISI are the problem. If I need to buy something from China (I think quite morally degenerate) I’ll buy it othout selling my soul. Same for Israel, If shooting a satellite can protect the Indians, it is moral responsibility of the Indian leaders that they buy the needful stuff without selling their souls. India and Pakistan have been working behind the scene for Kashmir deal. why India does not want 3rd party–India knows that means trouble for ever. Pakistan does not but thankfully Indo-Pak bilateral talks have been happening until Mumbai. who did that acc to you–10 from those “50K” isrealis” inside India or Indians themselves fooled by Isreal.

Finally, learn history and culture after you know the geography. You are stuck with your India the future guardian of Israel theory. Knock it–it is hollow.

@what do you think caused such desperation that the 9/11 operation happened?
No I do not. Spell it out. Conspiracy theory. US and Jews. I do not buy. Good luck to you if you want to see the whole world conspired and only 2 villanis US and Jews and rest are victims or their allies. Come off it.

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive

American with a Pakistani heart writes: “israel was founded in lies, terror and injustice, and has preserved itself with lies, terror and injustice.”

So was Pakistan. There war no need to create a nation for Muslims. Jinnah and other selfish leaders manipulated the British and instigated violence to carve a nation out for themselves. Israel was created for those who suffered at the hands of Nazis. So hating Jews is tantamount to agreeing with the Nazis. Americans do not allow two things – Nazi and Communist beliefs. If you strongly support either of them, give up US citizenship and go to Libya. You cannot take the freedom that Americans give you and abuse that freedom with no responsibility. The US is very dear to Israel and it is going to be so for a long time. If you do not like it, file a case in the court. Let the law of the land give you justice.

“if israel limited its lies, its terror and its injustice to israel, and was not dragging america into its battles, that would be one thing.”

Can you list some of Israel’s lies? What about terror emanating from Islamic nations? I do not see you condemning that. Terror has no religion. So condemn it all if you are against it. You cannot take sides if you really are against it.

i’m trying to educate americans.
-posted by wadosy

wadosy: Effort is great. But you are no better than Bill o’Reilly who is stuck up with his views. You are giving them a highly extremist view. Faint hearted americans will collapse omce they know the meaning of Samson option. There is another thing to teach that world can be safer about Nukes with “No-first use” option. India has that, Pakistan does not.

Posted by ramdanrahim@rediff.com | Report as abusive

@American with a Pakistani heart writes: “israel was founded in lies, terror and injustice, and has preserved itself with lies, terror and injustice.”
-Mauryan

-I have exchanged several posts with “wadosy” guy. I have made his sketch. He can correct me if I am wrong. Mauryan, I think you are not entirely right- he is not with Pakistan heart, he is just anti-US/Jews. he views everything in the world though PNAC map. That’s the basis. Energy supplies. To him each thing that moves in the world is when Israel blinks, making US move, and US in turn making everything else move. He thinks Jew lobby in US is fooling US leaders like Bush to start wars. All know Jew lobby power. But he is kind of making them next to Jesus/Allah. It is all for oil (i will agree in part with him on energy supplies). he is yet to respond, but I bet he ‘ll say 9/11 is by Jew and exxon for starting a new big war by US. To him India is the future “Vishnu” of Isreal. Jewish terrorism is bigger threat than radical Islam. He slyly indicates that if Israel uses samson option, Pakistan has that right too. This guy is all messed up. Sometimes puts India/Isreal together, sometimes equates Pak/Isreal. Big time sucker for conspiracy theories.

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive

@india’s betting that america is strong enough and will last long enough to achieve it’s hegemony, eliminate pakistan’s nukes, and then will reward india —with access to energy— for its participation.
-posted by Wadosy

PM of India Dr. Manmohan Singh is a Ph.D. in economics—not some brain dead hilly billy Bush et al–with a demostrated record of doing a U-turn of fast sliding Indian economy. He is an extremely honset politician and academician and US looks up to him for teaching them 101 on economics. He is under no illusion about how strong or weak America is. India also has been lucky to have good leaders in the PM office and key positions–irrespective of political party—who have ably guided India. What I am trying to say is that you have limited knowledge of India as a country and think Jew lobby is working in India. Forget it. It is not a artificial democracy of literate but ignorant people (bit harsh perhaps) who are awakened by 9/11 and recession, but India is a democracy of both illterate and literate people—-but wise enough—who have learnt lessons personally each day and collectively from the history of being invaded and ruled for >1000 yrs. India values its freedom and will not even symbolically handover the sovereignity of the nation nor be a watch dog for some one else.

Given your this view of your beloved country, where and when are you planning to move?

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive

Wadosy writes: “india’s betting that america is strong enough and will last long enough to achieve it’s hegemony, eliminate pakistan’s nukes, and then will reward india —with access to energy— for its participation.”

Rajeev,

As I sift through the words, I can sense that this guy is saying a lot about Pakistan and his words are directed against India/US/Israel. Even if he tries hard to hide his identity, from his words I can make out that this guys is a Paki American. The above lines clearly reflect the hidden sentiment.

The anti-semitic Americans typically are as ignorant of South Asia as the rest of the Americans are. There are Palestinian and Arab Americans who are anti-Israel, but they do not view India as an evil country. And he has been carefully hiding his identity, despite you asking for it specifically. This way he can write in different ways and will not bear the brunt of Indian’s verbal offensive like his Pakistani compatriots do. Anyway, it hardly matters. This blog deals with India-Pakistan affairs and anyone who gets involved here should be prepared to receive eggs on the face once in a while.

i’m glad to see you boys trotting out your accusations of “antisemitism”, which is the oldest, sleaziest tactic in the zionist book.

you cant refute my posts on moral, factual or logical grounds, so you have to use the defense of last resort… sleaze.

pretty impressive

Posted by wadosy | Report as abusive

what i suggest you do is, go through the map (below) and refute the points, point by point, found in the text.

http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/3637/ pnacplan18apr09.jpg

once you’ve refuted those points, you will have a legitimate defense of your neocon project.

but you cant refute the points, or you already would have done so, which explains why you have to seek refuge in accusations of antisemitism.

Posted by wadosy | Report as abusive

Mauryan, Rajeev

cool it.

the guy.
just google him; he is not a ‘regular’ on this topic/blog
but sure is a veteran prolific blogger elsewhere.

he certainly needs some rapid course about the region, especially the history part of it.Americans see no difference between Zambia and india (most antway)

@the guy.
just google him; he is not a ‘regular’ on this topic/blog
but sure is a veteran prolific blogger elsewhere.

he certainly needs some rapid course about the region, especially the history part of it.Americans see no difference between Zambia and india (most antway)
- Posted by Azad

–I did google and yesterday because he seems focused on the particular issue and I guessed he’ll be writing. he is seen on some blogs.

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive

wadosy:
Did you ever read Indian history and culture—tell me come on.
Exteremist!

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive

@you cant refute my posts on moral, factual or logical grounds, so you have to use the defense of last
-wadosy

-all done. scroll down to read the posts.
moral, logical problem with you,

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive

“The more I argued with them, the better I came to know their dialectic.

“First they counted on the stupidity of their adversary, and then, when there was no other way out, they themselves simply played stupid.

“If all this didn’t help, they pretended not to understand, or, if challenged, they changed the subject in a hurry, quoted platitudes which, if you accepted them, they immediately related to entirely different matters, and then, if again attacked, gave ground and pretended not to know exactly what you were talking about.

“Whenever you tried to attack one of these apostles, your hand closed on a jelly-like slime which divided up and poured through your fingers, but in the next moment collected again.

“But if you really struck one of these fellows so telling a blow that, observed by the audience, he couldn’t help but agree, and if you believed that this had taken you at least one step forward, your amazement was great the next day. The Jew had not the slightest recollection of the day before, he rattled off his same old nonsense as though nothing at all had happened, and, if indignantly challenged, affected amazement; he couldn’t remember a thing, except that he had proved the correctness of his assertions the previous day.

“Sometimes I stood there thunderstruck.

“I didn’t know what to be more amazed at: the agility of their tongues or their virtuosity at lying.”

Posted by wadosy | Report as abusive

it’s a mystery: why do defenders of the neocon project insist on employing debate techniques described by hitler?

Posted by wadosy | Report as abusive

in the meantime, while you’re thinking about hitler, maybe you can refute some of the text in that map i just posted.

…or… may you cant.

Posted by wadosy | Report as abusive

wadosy

speaking candidly, the 400 mil immediate relief to be released by US will be distributed to ISI (part of it) by pak army ; in turn the local leaders in western pak will receive a small part of it. They will share the spoils with Taliban and Al Qaida.(oh, before i forget, good chunk of it goes to china, and pak generals will in turn get kickbacks for purchasing weapons from china).

Temporary truce and peace then will prevail in the area. OnceAmerican forces resume their search for al qaida, differences will resurface. The american objective of capturing bin laden will be thwarted. The cycle repeats.

I saw charlie Wilson movie. Then the Taliban tasted success, thanks to US, against one super power. The irony is, now, they are naturally inclined to believe to repeat same against the other…….

Todays DAWN reports-

Maulana Sufi Muhammad said on the occasion that ‘delegating powers of Qazis to judges is Ghair-Sharaee,’ adding: ‘we want Sharaee Qazis in accordance with Shariat Muhammadi.’ He said TNSM wanted to transform the present judicial system into Islamic Sharia system.

He said Sharia and democracy are totally different systems, adding we consider democracy as Kuffar (infidelity) and believe in system of Quran and Sunnah. He said constitution of Pakistan is Islamic and it was not practically implemented in the country.

Muslim Khan ruled out the supply of arms to the Taliban by foreign states, adding they had successfully stolen weapons from Pakistan security forces. He expressed full confidence in Sufi Mohammad, saying they would follow the directives of Sufi Mohmmad regarding Darul Qaza and Qazi courts

Wadosy

your confusion will drive you crazy about situation there….need to do a lot of reading.You merely repeating the mantra of Israel, Palestine Amrica like a broken record takes you nowhere. Welcome to AfPak.

Wadosy,

Quit man! This forum is India-Pakistan issues. You are flooding it with anti-Israel comments that have no relevance! As it is most discussions drift away from the main topic. At least they are confined to India and Pakistan. Israel can do whatever it wants and it does not concern us here. Israel was a part of the alliance that included the US, Pakistan, China, Egypt and UK in the covert war against the Soviets in Afghanistan. So every country is an enemy or friend of convenience. Can you go to the Israel bashing forum? We are hunting jackals who are pretending to be the hounds that are hunting the jackals.

Wadosy!
Carry on, thank you for your posts you are a good addition to this blog. So far we only have ignorant Indians contributing only garbage and demonstrating their lack of understanding of the world around them. They think the US will help them through every challenge, that US will fight wars for them, wishful thinking. Every country has to take its own stand, every nation has to fight for its own rights. Its only cowards who fire by placing the rifle on another’s shoulder.

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive

Being a Pakistani i just wish that ‘God bless our country’.

Being a Pakistani i just wish that ‘God bless our country’.
- Posted by Nadia

Not only Pakistanis, whole world wishes same for Pakistan, including India.

Posted by Pravin | Report as abusive

“Wadosy!
Carry on, thank you for your posts you are a good addition to this blog.”

Umair posted

Yea carry on, anything anti Israel anti India seduce pakis, no matter if its relevant or not.

Posted by punjabiyaar | Report as abusive

text test

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive

Punjabiyar
“Yea carry on, anything anti Israel anti India seduce pakis, no matter if its relevant or not.”

What about you guys, can you just scroll back and see how low the debates can get when Indians are arguing. This is not a Paki bashing forum, we must have diverse views as more people contribute apart from Indians and Pakistanis.

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive

Can you go to the Israel bashing forum?
-Mauryan

Lots of opportunities on this blog:
“AxisMundi Jerusalem
Inside Israel and the Palestinian Territories”

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive

Umair:
Are you falling for the good old “my enemy’s enemy is my friend”?

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive

Umair:
Wadosy angry at US for wasting US taxpayer $$$$
“Think not Wadosy a friend of your,
he convinces Obama, Pakistan becomes poor”

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive

Rajeev
I really meant to encourage Wadosy to contribute to give some out side perspective. We have dealt with America before, since during Afghan Soviet days. We know the meaning of American friendship, I once heard a notion from somewhere apparently it was Gen. Ayub Khan who once stated, America’s friendship is more dangerous than America’s enmity. I am not sure about it, I am not making a judgement.
And as with the tax payers money, it was wasted on Big automakers, like GM etc while its executives were flying on Business Jets all the way from Detroit to Washington DC asking the feds for bailout money. Outreageuos isnt it? I mean deep recessionary times and the guys in suits are borrowing money fro govt. and arrive in corporate jets. “Corporate Capitalism” at its best, its corporate capitalism that would cause the decline of American empire not US tax payer money wasted on outside wars.

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive

Umair – “They think the US will help them through every challenge, that US will fight wars for them, wishful thinking”

Yeah, just like with US help, we broke your country into 2 & made 90,000 of your ‘brave’ soldiers surrender, right?

Posted by Mortal | Report as abusive

Wadosy,

If you really don’t want your tax $$$ to be mis-spent, get in touch with your congressman/senator & start a sign-up campaign to prevent aid to Pakistan. It’s about time, we stand up against the abuse of our hard earned $$$.

Posted by Mortal | Report as abusive

Umair: I exchanged posts with this guy. he is glued to the PNAC map sacrosanct–the moment you challenge something–he bites you. Well you can have fun with him. I already know what he has to offer. he says India is the replacement protector for Israel!! He treats his Geography knowledge like he knows the nations inside out. I asked him many times—do you have any idea about Indian history, nothings comes back from him. Just some big quotes. Throws in Samson option stuff.

This is what he says
@the function of the mass media in america is not to inform; their function is to confuse common people so
badly that they’ll give up trying to understand.
we have a big circus once in a while, like obama’s election… and his election is most likely
a ploy to pacify the blacks of america, who might be less inclined to burn their cities once the
situation deteriorates.

—True media is not great. That must be some ploy—to pacify the blacks :-)
I can fathom if someone says Denzil Washington and Helly Berry—both blacks–who were soemtime ago were given the best actor and actress Oscar Awards-but Obama as staged President!!!

Buckle up.

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive

“What about you guys, can you just scroll back and see how low the debates can get when Indians are arguing. This is not a Paki bashing forum, we must have diverse views as more people contribute apart from Indians and Pakistanis.”
- Posted by Umair

I have just gone through earlier posts, you and Ali had practically shown middle finger to anyone who even murmurs anything against Pakistan, no matter which color caste creed culture country he was. You listen to him because he is speaking your language.

This man is tightly gift wrapped in PNAC Map and he don’t want to come out of this box. He is anti Israel and there are NO Israelis here to show Israeli POV on this, so Barking up the wrong tree.

Posted by punjabiyaar | Report as abusive

do any of you want to explain why PNAC said they needed “a new pearl harbor” just a couple months before they were installed into positions from which they could make their “new pearl harbor” happen?

want to explain how those PNAC members were installed in those positions by an election recount in a state governed by the presidents brother, who is also a PNAC member?

want to explain how PNAC is a spinoff of the radical israeli american AEI think tank that’s allied with the likud party of israel, whose leader, netanyahu, just became the prime minister of israel?

want to explain why netanyahu thought 9/11 was “very good”?

want to explain why lieberman says “”Believe me, America accepts all our decisions”?

finally, want to explain why none of you can refute any of the points made on those maps you’re whining about?

Posted by wadosy | Report as abusive

Rajeev, Wadosy,

wadosy,
you may want to focus on South Asian geopolitical situation than arab jewish conflict. No arabs and no jews are here on this blog as far as I know.

This forum is not for antisemetism. Nor your global warming campaign will have a plce here.
Read History of India from Ashoka, chengis Khan/ alexander to Gandhi. Gita is also worthwhile for you, believe me, you will be a wiser man..

in other words, you refuse to acknowledge israel’s, israeli americans’, PNAC’S, the AEI’s and the israel lobby’s role in this situation.

the ostrich defense exposes certain vulnerable parts of your anatomy.

Posted by wadosy | Report as abusive

Azad:
Sure, thanks.

Wadosy:
@@the function of the mass media in america is not to inform; their function is to confuse common people so
badly that they’ll give up trying to understand.
we have a big circus once in a while, like obama’s election… and his election is most likely
a ploy to pacify the blacks of america, who might be less inclined to burn their cities once the
situation deteriorates.

1. Would you like to enlighten me how an act of this level is possible. This is you saying “blacks of america, who might be less inclined to burn their cities once the situation deteriorates.” or did the neocon say. So Obama is holding a position he does not deserve.

2. Also, who did 9/11 and 26/11 in your views?

I am genuinely interested.

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive

who are the most likely suspects for 9/11, taking into account traditional parameters used in criminal investigations?

…those parameters being: motive, means, opportunity, character and prior convictions.

you can hardly expect an honest investigation from people who are the prime suspects.

.

obama doesnt have much of a chance to change anything, even if he has the most effective bodyguard setup in the world… he can still be assassinated (figuratively) by the israeli american media if he fails to bow to israel’s wishes.

obama must deserve the job, otherwise he wouldnt have got it, but i have to say that anyone who’s silly enough to want to be president of a dying empire deserves whatever happens to him.

the israeli american media is heavily biased in favor of israel, so the media will do whatever they can to preserve america for as long as possible, including pacifying blacks by installing a black president… the kicker being, so long as america holds together, israel will have a protector.

there’s a slight chance that the israeli american media will come to its senses about israel, and will attempt to bring israel into line by giving more evenhanded coverage, just like they did in the intifada of 2000… but we know how that ended, dont we?

as wikipedia puts it…

“…many of the potential political aftereffects of the Conference were annulled by the September 11, 2001 attacks.

“The attacks took place just three days after the Conference ended, entirely eclipsing the Conference in the news, and significantly affecting international relations and politics.”

World Conference against Racism 2001
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Durban_ Declaration_and_Programme_of_Action

the spanish-speakers are another potential flashpoint, which explains why haim saban, who admits he’s a “one issue guy, and that issue is israel”, bought the biggest spanish-language television network in america.

Posted by wadosy | Report as abusive

it’s all part of the “cold civil war”… right now the factions are trying to figure out who’s gonna come out on top…

what they’re trying to decide is: is this america, or israeli america?

…the dice are loaded in favor of the israeli americans, but the only chance of preserving america lies in preparing ourselves for peak oil by spending the trillions now being wasted on these wars and bailouts of looters …spending that money instead on transitioning to a sustainable way of life.

of course, the looters see peak oil coming, so they’ve got to loot while the looting’s good, and they are another faction in the cold civil war.

.

one other little thing here: china recently overtook the US as the prime depositor of co2 into the atmosphere… which might have something to do with india’s alliance with israeli america and israeli america’s goal of depriving china of energy.

very slim chance of doing any good, but india’s apparently made its choice of alliances, and india will have to live with that choice.

hitch your wagon to a falling star. wonderful.

Posted by wadosy | Report as abusive

i have to say that i hope obama talks sense into everybody, tells the truth about peak oil and global warming and the threat they pose, and rallies the world to support the most efficient transition to a post-oil world while controlling global warming.

all this would take global cooperation on a massive scale.

meanwhile, america and obama, judging from recent events, still seem to be under firm israeli control, and the word “cooperation” seems to be unknown to neocons.

hope for the best, sure, but dont be too surprised if the whole thing degenerates into a global samson option.

Posted by wadosy | Report as abusive

wadosy

And how about 26/11 Mumbai attack—who is involved?

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive

wadosy

Is there any chance that the fact on the ground, the Taliban and islamic religious fudamentalists and any supportive wing in the Pakistan establishment, will allow these beheaders flog their way into Islamabad to establish a nuclear Sharia state? It is critical since these guys, unlike invisible A-Q, are real and a danger for anyone to see even with head buried in the sand.

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive

if you dont trust the official investigation of the mumbai attack, or for that matter, the attack on the indian parliament in 2001, i guess you’ll have to do the same as me: hope that somehow, someday, somebody you trust will reopen the investigation.

until then, you’ll just have to compile a list of suspects despite your inability to investigate…

you compile that list of suspects by asking: who had the most motive, means, and opportunity to carry out the attacks, who has demonstrated the character necessary to commit the attacks, and who has a prior history of similar attacks?

who benefited from the attacks?

.

if radical muslims gain control of nuclear weapons, will they be entitled to use those weapons in a fashion similar to israel… i.e., threatening to use them to blow up as many of their neighbors as possible as they go under?

Posted by wadosy | Report as abusive

what about the christian fundamentalists who are inadvertant allies of the israeli radicals and muslim fundamentalists?

do muslim fundamentalists yearn for armageddon? do they intend to attain “nuclear primacy” by threatening nuke first strikes against russia and china?

…and those radical christians would like nothing better than to see a nuke holocaust touched off in the middle east.

you think we ought to start bombing american bible thumpers who might someday gain control of american nukes?

maybe we should bomb tel aviv, seeing as how jewish fundamentalists —judging them by their samson option— already seem to have control of israeli nukes….

*shrugs*

Posted by wadosy | Report as abusive

there also exists the remote possibility that the fundamentalist muslims might not be quite so aggressive if we quit blowing up their weddings.

…but since israeli america is so persistent in bombing muslim weddings, we have to assume that israeli america is getting exactly the results they want from those bombings: more radical muslim actions that will justify escalation of the wars.

this is not rocket science.

Posted by wadosy | Report as abusive

@there also exists the remote possibility that the fundamentalist muslims might not be quite so aggressive if we quit blowing up their weddings.
this is not rocket science.
-Wadosy.

–Can you take off that box from your head in which you have stuck yourself and walking left and right with anti-Isreal Mantra. No one understand Hebrew here. It is hard for the best conspiracy theory expert in this region to weave a theory that links this violence with Isreal. 26/11 Mumbai had nothing to do with Isreal. Absolutely nothing. This and such other attacks are a state-opertated terrorism. A self-admitted proxy war against India by Pakistan and religion is just a vehicle to achieve that goal.
Now that;s not a rocket science. le me know if it is.

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive

do muslim fundamentalists yearn for armageddon? do they intend to attain “nuclear primacy” by threatening nuke first strikes against russia and china?
-Wadosy

–Do you India and Pakistan’s Nuclear doctrine?

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive

Do you know India and Pakistan’s Nuclear doctrine?
- Posted by rajeev

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive

did i say israel had anything to do with the mumbai attack?

no.

Posted by wadosy | Report as abusive

Wadosy:
were we not talking about Mumabi? Dude break the rule and address the post to someone to avoid consfusion. So were you talking to yourself.

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive

Undeniably believe that which you stated. Your favorite justification seemed to be on the web the easiest thing to be aware of. I say to you, I certainly get irked while people think about worries that they plainly don’t know about. You managed to hit the nail upon the top and also defined out the whole thing without having side-effects , people could take a signal. Will likely be back to get more. Thanks