Comments on: Will Obama chart his own course on Pakistan? http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2009/05/01/will-obama-chart-his-own-course-on-pakistan/ Perspectives on Pakistan Thu, 01 Oct 2015 19:31:05 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=4.2.5 By: Myra MacDonald http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2009/05/01/will-obama-chart-his-own-course-on-pakistan/comment-page-2/#comment-17625 Wed, 06 May 2009 06:35:03 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/?p=2550#comment-17625 The conversation has gone off topic again.

I put up a post on funding for schools in Pakistan a while back. Unfortunately some of you decided to turn it into a discussion of why you believe all Pakistanis hate all Indians and I had to close the post.

Here I see a comment about Pakistani scholars urging a change in the curriculum — ie suggesting a plurality of thinking within the country – and again it turns into a discussion of why some of you believe all Pakistanis hate all Indians. Anyone beginning to see a pattern here?

Please do not make sweeping generalisations about all Pakistanis, or all Indians, about all Hindus or all Muslims. It’s not just offensive – it’s really boring since it gets in the way of an intelligent discussion.

Given how far the conversation has gone off topic, I’m closing comments again on this post.

Myra

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By: Global Watcher http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2009/05/01/will-obama-chart-his-own-course-on-pakistan/comment-page-2/#comment-17622 Wed, 06 May 2009 03:58:56 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/?p=2550#comment-17622 Rajeev you posted:

@You should be president of India. You are more eloquent and well read than most of the Indian leaders.
-by GW to Mauryan

-hey GW, I hate you for this. you are not invited to the party at my place. :-)

I would make you deputy president, you guys can fight for the top spot, you are also in the same league as Mauryan how could I forget you. Will you let me crash the party, if I bring Shah Rukh Khan with me? LOL

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By: azad http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2009/05/01/will-obama-chart-his-own-course-on-pakistan/comment-page-2/#comment-17617 Wed, 06 May 2009 02:18:45 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/?p=2550#comment-17617 Mauryan writes-mainly to get to power and keep it by using human emotions

Yes.Happens all the time all over the world, including in the recent precidential elections here in USA

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By: Mauryan http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2009/05/01/will-obama-chart-his-own-course-on-pakistan/comment-page-2/#comment-17616 Wed, 06 May 2009 01:54:34 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/?p=2550#comment-17616 Azad writes: “Time to move forward.( Besides this is not the right forum)”

Agreed. I was only showing the same agenda, but different ideologies, mainly to get to power and keep it by using human emotions. I see the same thing in a number of “revolutions” that have led to human misery and loss of lives. I’d recommend Naipaul’s “India – A million mutinies now.” There the author rediscovers India and he is very sympathetic to its issues. He goes from one end of the country to the other and finally says that the million mutinies happening around the country are basically the nation rediscovering itself and re-adjusting. And he mentions that in a positive way.

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By: Azad http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2009/05/01/will-obama-chart-his-own-course-on-pakistan/comment-page-2/#comment-17615 Wed, 06 May 2009 01:22:55 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/?p=2550#comment-17615 Mauryan,

Nehru, Indira, PV narasimha Rao and Vajpayee have onething in common.
(Im not sure of Morarji Desai and Advani).
No, not just they were all PMs of India. But they all belong to the same social group, that you say was oppressed in TN.

Time to move forward.( Besides this is not the right forum)

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By: rajeev http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2009/05/01/will-obama-chart-his-own-course-on-pakistan/comment-page-2/#comment-17614 Tue, 05 May 2009 23:02:06 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/?p=2550#comment-17614 @You should be president of India. You are more eloquent and well read than most of the Indian leaders.
-by GW to Mauryan

-hey GW, I hate you for this. you are not invited to the party at my place. :-)

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By: Global Watcher http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2009/05/01/will-obama-chart-his-own-course-on-pakistan/comment-page-2/#comment-17602 Tue, 05 May 2009 21:36:30 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/?p=2550#comment-17602 @Mauryan,

You should be president of India. You are more eloquent and well read than most of the Indian leaders.

I thank you for your information, forward thinking posts, your written word reflects much wisdom, knowledge and breadth and depth of understanding.

Thank you.

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By: Global Watcher http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2009/05/01/will-obama-chart-his-own-course-on-pakistan/comment-page-2/#comment-17589 Tue, 05 May 2009 20:09:27 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/?p=2550#comment-17589 @Punjabiyaar, Sanjeev and Myra

Thank you for your coles notes version of Azad’s link to the Pakistani Educational System report.

It is apparent then, then, that Pakistan, is founded on a religiously driven racist and supremicist mindset that is pervasive and mandatory in every facet of one’s education from Childhood.

Sanjeev, Myra, we can write about complicated complexities and pluralities and discuss them to no end, but only for the purpose of discussion, is not the purpose of discussing to find a solution?

Please, let’s not overcomplicate all the matters we discuss here, sometimes, things really are simple, this posting confirms what I have been saying in most of my posts, all of Paksitan’s problems are based in its racist and supremicist mindset, fueled by the fact that Pakistan its formation and it national identity is formed on the basis of religion.

It is this basis, which has propagated Pakistani behavior towards India and the west and explains the collective mental illness of Pakistan itself.

Please let’s just be blunt and honest once in a while, let’s not resort to calling it bashing.

Pakistan is in dire need of institutional and societal reform and Pakistan must move away from its religious national identity.

This is where I keep saying that Pakistani’s don’t view Indians as human beings, this is the cause and source and it is also the cause and source of Pakistani’s impotence to fight Islamic Radicalism.

Pakistan’s reason for being and programming is on of a racist, hateful mindset and flawed from day one and must be reformed, if it wants to be taken seriously as a modern and sovereign nation.

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By: Mauryan http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2009/05/01/will-obama-chart-his-own-course-on-pakistan/comment-page-2/#comment-17588 Tue, 05 May 2009 19:54:53 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/?p=2550#comment-17588 Punjabiyaar writes: “Four themes emerge most strongly as constituting the bulk of the curricula and textbooks of the three compulsory subjects.”

This is called systematic indoctrination. And this bears strong resemblance to propagandist and brain washing methods used by many other systems of ideology – Communists, Maoists, Naxalites, Dravidian parties, Nazis, Aryan nations, Black Panthers, Hindu zealots, Khalistanis, LTTE and even Indira Gandhi (to some extent).

The first step is to “catch them young.” The second step is to deny them a world view. What they get fed is a continuous bombardment of one sided views. A victim mentality is set up that blames others, specifically targeting a community. The same thing is repeated with distortion of history where important facts are carefully removed or modified. Typically a leader is projected as a savior. Atrocities that happened elsewhere are taken and inserted into the context. Once the seed is sowed and watered with emotional bombardment, what grows is a monster that is now unleashed to engage in violence. When retaliation comes, it is used to amplify the emotion even more. People start dying for the “cause.” And it begins to self sustain. People who are helpless, surrender to it or get eliminated. If you look at any ideological organization, you will find the same symptoms.

I read the book on Soviet invasion of Afghanistan. The Russians brought their helicopters and planes and simply carpet bombed the Afghans without caring if they were civilians or fighters. Napalm was spread everywhere. Water sources were poisoned. Rape became a mean for terror. This is what the book, written by an American says. Now look at the Soviet side. There they say that Afghanistan called them for help to support progressive forces that were building schools and hospitals, distributing land to the poor and spreading the wealth equally, and eliminating religious fundamentalism. There is an element of truth in both campaigns. But somewhere truth got buried. The Soviets slaughtered anything that moved and the Mujahideen were motivated to kill any Russian that they could see.

In 1989 when the Soviets left, what they did in Afghanistan or whatever was said about them got translated to Kashmir. Now Indian soldiers were accused of mowing down Kashmiris at sight, razing down mosques, raping women, imprisoning all Kashmiris and burning the Koran. This kind of propaganda has worked well to motivate the radical Muslims to fight the Soviets with zeal. Now the same zeal was turned against the “evil Indians.” It was tough to take them on in the 1990s. India had no international status for sometime and it had to wait for its economic liberalization to work and change perceptions about it in the West. After 9/11, things have gone in a different direction. But I see enough signs of propagandist indoctrination echoing from the hearts of many Pakistanis, educated and illiterate. And it has not subsided. Look at the Mumbai attackers’ venom and fearlessness. There is a huge population that is confused now due to internal issues. They are now seeing the problem internally that they were being told was happening outside of their borders. Only those Pakistanis who have sufficient exposure to Western countries and have spent time there are taking a more mature stand. But the majority is still under the influence of propaganda.

I have seen LTTE sympathizers in the Southern state of Tamil Nadu. They realized that the Tamils hated the Brahmins in their state. So they began to exploit that. Suddenly Brahmins became the most vicious people on earth, devising ways to subjugate others, scheming things to destroy the Tamil culture, cruel, heartless etc. By this time the Brahmins had become a dead snake in the state. In 1991, the LTTE came pretty close to Talibanizing Tamil Nadu. The locals were utterly scared of them, including the politicians. There were posters of LTTE leader everywhere and money was being collected for “the great cause.”

I have read Gowalikar’s works too.

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By: punjabiyaar http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2009/05/01/will-obama-chart-his-own-course-on-pakistan/comment-page-2/#comment-17580 Tue, 05 May 2009 18:53:52 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/?p=2550#comment-17580 Azad:
Here is what I found in referenced report:

———————
Four themes emerge most strongly as constituting the bulk of the curricula and textbooks of the three compulsory subjects.

1. that Pakistan is for Muslims alone;

2. that Islamic teachings, including a compulsory reading and memorization of Qur’an, are to be included in all the subjects, hence to be forcibly taught to all the students,whatever their faith,;

3. that Ideology of Pakistan is to be internalized as faith, and that hate be created against Hindus and India; and

4. students are to be urged to take the path of Jehad and Shahadat.

That the pathological hate against Hindus is only because of adopting the so-called Ideology of Pakistan is borne out by the fact that the pre-Ideology (before the 1970s) textbooks of Pakistan did not contain this hatred.
——————

That is a very detailed report and is worth reading and discussing.

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